Inside Account of US Eavesdropping on Americans
U.S. Officers' "Phone Sex" Intercepted, Recorded, Shared Across NSA Listening Post
Despite pledges by President George W. Bush and American intelligence officials to the contrary, hundreds of US citizens overseas have been eavesdropped on as they called friends and family back home, according to two former military intercept operators who worked at the giant National Security Agency (NSA) center in Fort Gordon, Georgia.
"These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones," said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA's Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003.
Watch the video.
Kinne described the contents of the calls as "personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism."
She said US military officers, American journalists and American aid workers were routinely intercepted and "collected on" as they called their offices or homes in the United States.
Another intercept operator, former Navy Arab linguist, David Murfee Faulk, 39, said he and his fellow intercept operators listened into hundreds of Americans picked up using phones in Baghdad's Green Zone from late 2003 to November 2007.
"Calling home to the United States, talking to their spouses, sometimes their girlfriends, sometimes one phone call following another," said Faulk.
The accounts of the two former intercept operators, who have never met and did not know of the other's allegations, provide the first inside look at the day to day operations of the huge and controversial US terrorist surveillance program.
"There is a constant check to make sure that our civil liberties of our citizens are treated with respect," said President Bush at a news conference this past February.
But the accounts of the two whistleblowers, which could not be independently corroborated, raise serious questions about how much respect is accorded those Americans whose conversations are intercepted in the name of fighting terrorism.
US Soldier's 'Phone Sex' Intercepted, Shared
Faulk says he and others in his section of the NSA facility at Fort Gordon routinely shared salacious or tantalizing phone calls that had been intercepted, alerting office mates to certain time codes of "cuts" that were available on each operator's computer.
"Hey, check this out," Faulk says he would be told, "there's good phone sex or there's some pillow talk, pull up this call, it's really funny, go check it out. It would be some colonel making pillow talk and we would say, 'Wow, this was crazy'," Faulk told ABC News.
Faulk said he joined in to listen, and talk about it during breaks in Back Hall's "smoke pit," but ended up feeling badly about his actions.
"I feel that it was something that the people should not have done. Including me," he said.
In testimony before Congress, then-NSA director Gen. Michael Hayden, now director of the CIA, said private conversations of Americans are not intercepted.
"It's not for the heck of it. We are narrowly focused and drilled on protecting the nation against al Qaeda and those organizations who are affiliated with it," Gen. Hayden testified.
He was asked by Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), "Are you just doing this because you just want to pry into people's lives?"
"No, sir," General Hayden replied.
Asked for comment about the ABC News report and accounts of intimate and private phone calls of military officers being passed around, a US intelligence official said "all employees of the US government" should expect that their telephone conversations could be monitored as part of an effort to safeguard security and "information assurance."
"They certainly didn't consent to having interceptions of their telephone sex conversations being passed around like some type of fraternity game," said Jonathon Turley, a constitutional law professor at George Washington University who has testified before Congress on the country's warrantless surveillance program.
"This story is to surveillance law what Abu Ghraib was to prison law," Turley said.
Listening to Aid Workers
NSA awarded Adrienne Kinne a NSA Joint Service Achievement Medal in 2003 at the same time she says she was listening to hundreds of private conversations between Americans, including many from the International Red Cross and Doctors without Borders.
"We knew they were working for these aid organizations," Kinne told ABC News. "They were identified in our systems as 'belongs to the International Red Cross' and all these other organizations. And yet, instead of blocking these phone numbers we continued to collect on them," she told ABC News.
A spokesman for Doctors Without Borders, Michael Goldfarb, said: "The abuse of humanitarian action through intelligence gathering for military or political objectives, threatens the ability to assist populations and undermines the safety of humanitarian aid workers."
Both Kinne and Faulk said their military commanders rebuffed questions about listening in to the private conversations of Americans talking to Americans.
"It was just always, that , you know, your job is not to question. Your job is to collect and pass on the information," Kinne said.
Some times, Kinne and Faulk said, the intercepts helped identify possible terror planning in Iraq and saved American lives.
"IED's were disarmed before they exploded, that people who were intending to harm US forces were captured ahead of time," Faulk said.
NSA job evaluation forms show he regularly received high marks for job performance. Faulk left his job as a newspaper reporter in Pittsburgh to join the Navy after 9/11.
Kinne says the success stories underscored for her the waste of time spent listening to innocent Americans, instead of looking for the terrorist needle in the haystack.
"By casting the net so wide and continuing to collect on Americans and aid organizations, it's almost like they're making the haystack bigger and it's harder to find that piece of information that might actually be useful to somebody," she said. "You're actually hurting our ability to effectively protect our national security."
The NSA: "The Shadow Factory"
Both former intercept operators came forward at first to speak with investigative journalist Jim Bamford for a book on the NSA, "The Shadow Factory," to be published next week.
"It's extremely rare," said Bamford, who has written two previous books on the NSA, including the landmark "Puzzle Palace" which first revealed the existence of the super secret spy agency.
"Both of them felt that what they were doing was illegal and improper, and immoral, and it shouldn't be done, and that's what forces whistleblowers."
A spokesman for General Hayden, Mark Mansfield, said: "At NSA, the law was followed assiduously. The notion that General Hayden sanctioned or tolerated illegalities of any sort is ridiculous on its face."The director of the NSA, Lt. General Keith B. Alexander, declined to directly answer any of the allegations made by the whistleblowers.
In a written statement, Gen. Alexander said: "We have been entrusted to protect and defend the nation with integrity, accountability, and respect for the law. As Americans, we take this obligation seriously. Our employees work tirelessly for the good of the nation, and serve this country proudly."
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58 Comments so far
Show AllOh yeah...Bush "pledges". Right. Black is white, up is down. He's so confused he thinks his mom is his dad. GREAT LEADER! We should nick-name him confusious.
Is this really any surprise? Frankly, I think you can BANK on the fact that the Democratic Party politicians and their cohorts were among the very FIRST to have their phones tapped... not by the usual NSA pubescent voyeurs, but by a very select group sworn to secrecy by Cheney.
How else could you explain the Bush regime being able to get some of their more insane bills through Congress if not by blackmailing any Democrat who got caught saying anything that could be construed as illegal, immoral or unethical?
What else could explain Leiberman going from the Democratic candidate for Vice-President to being a lap dog for the Republican Party?
This wouldn't be the first time something like that would happen... J. Edgar Hoover used to entertain LBJ with recorded tidbits from LBJ's political enemies back in the '60's... which was part of the reason that some of these laws were passed that Bush and Cheney have blatantly violated for the past eight years.
I could explain how the bills got thru, but I'm not too sure you would be open for the truth. It is quite shocking.
Bush claims the program is to listen to calls by Al Qaeda terrorists, yet many of these calls were originated from inside the Green Zone by Americans.
This is the most important reason we've been bogged down in Iraq for 7 years. Let’s bomb the Green Zone to smithereens, and kill all them terrorists in there.
I bet the Bush Republicans have all kinds of low down on all the Congress people, state Governors, judges, prosecutors, and even you and me. Hey, is that the reason they fired 7 Federal Prosecutors sometime back?
Get ready for cameras being installed in your bedrooms. Georgy boy will sure get a kick out of watching those.
The green zone is filled with people wanting to get the fu*k out of there. That is a BIG problem for the military. It is on the same wavelength as "you can shoot an Iraqi without any repercusions" but don't you DARE refuse to KILL when you are ordered to.
“Despite pledges by President George W. Bush…”
No surprise here. All Bush’s promises are meant to be broken.
Fact is You will always be lied to by 'Your' government. All those patriotic zealots follow willingly the same principles the East German 'Stasi' ('Staatssicherheit' = Secret Service) has refined from the GESTAPO during Adolf's glorious reign. Now it's the US who spies on its very own citizens. Do they collect 'smell probes' as well? (The Stasi had tens of thousands of jars filled with dissidents clothes for the dogs to smell and trace in case a 'Klassenfeind' (Enemy Combatant) would go underground. How may jars does the NSA store? How may DNA samples were taken in illegal operations? America You have sunk lower than anybody could have ever feared. The 'Founding Fathers' would puke about this fascist program.
May all Beings be blessed. Specifically the weak and ill minded.
Kudos to the two whistleblowers!
Who knew the NSA intelligence operation was nothing more than an eavesdropping smut operation. ;)
If the NSA spooks were listening to stuff like some Colonel posted in Iraq telling his girlfriend what he was going to do to her in bed when he gets home next month, its also a total waste of taxpayer money. More neocon throwing unsupervised money at everything.
So our phones are being tapped, what can we do?
When I hear the the draw down of power or the clicking as some call it, I yell at these cretins and ask if they're enjoying the Tyranny? For all we know they might of outsourced the tapping?
The best thing to do is, when you hear the clicking--draw down of power, wait a few seconds after the person you've spoken with hangs up, stay on the line and then give whom ever it is that's been listening in a good lambasting. Tell them they're not immune to the Tyranny and fascism.
What country is it again that we're living? Is this shades of Germany in the 40's ?
beautiful! yes, damn right we can fight back. get out in the streets people! it is our world, not theirs...
Bu$h the inferior has always been dismissed for lacking curiosity. We found out now he just wants to figure out the sex thing and what he is supposed to do with his naughty bits in case he ever figures out how Laura's booby holder comes off. Since he quit drinking Laura hasn't been able to show him how to do the hubba hubba for the third time.
Is there anybody who thought listening to phone calls would find terrorists? Imagine the grocery lists and weird sex carefully transcribed and cataloged by a room full of government operatives and contractors at the taxpayers expense! Maybe the terrorists haven't attacked again out of mercy for the American people subjected to mentally challenged leadership.
So heres the deal, all you STUPID gvmt security dudes who are reading all these posts. Everyone in the whole fuckin world has known for a very long time that you are illegally spying on us. The cat is out o the bag bro's. All you can hope to catch, are the dumbest of the dumb terrorists. Good Luck! What a bunch of FOOLS!
Amy Goodman covered this months ago. It's nice to see that ABC is only five months behind. Obviously they are doing better than the the other networks and the major dailies, but damn, how lazy are these people.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/13/fmr_military_intelligence_officer_reveals_us
When I started writing on this subject back around eight years ago, I was told that my imagination was running wild. "Steve, this is America, not the Soviet Union. This sort of thing would never happen here."
I've long taken it for granted that everything I write, every call I make, every post is read or recorded. Occasionally I get unusual clicks or static on my line.
Again, I often got the derisive question, "Well, have you been picked up or disappeared yet?" The answer is, "No, I'm not effective. If I were, I'd have probably had a 'heart attack' or been hit by a truck."
An argument: If you're not doing anything wrong, why would you be worried if you are being listened to? An answer: We still have the illusion that our rule of Constitutional Law still exists, so what I do is not against the law, but what happens if the law changes? What if the Unitary Executive decides to formally suspend the Constitution and declares that we are in a state of emergency, for the duration. What if questioning the government then becomes an act of terrorism or a hate crime or whatever? If the government has been given the power, but has not chosen to use it, openly, at the moment, does that mean they will not exercise that power in the future?
What I really fear at this particular time is that the reason nobody in government, on either side of the aisle, is questioning this criminal establishment called the "Unitary Executive" and all of its draconian powers that are being added to daily, is that whichever side wins, they intend to use it for their own ends, with eight years of legal precedent behind it to make it legal and binding. Remember, the Constitution has already been set aside in fact, if not in name. The Unitary Executive has already described it as just a "goddamned piece of paper," so what weight should it carry in a dictatorship?
Almost every thinking person knows that there is no real difference between the parties. The handful of wealthy, powerful, Oligarchs that call the tune don't really care which side wins, because they own them both.
SO, as we read that NorthCom is mobilizing a combat infantry brigade to operate in the United States, being trained in crowd control and the use of a package of "non-lethal" methods of suppression; as we read that more and more of our communications are being monitored; as we read and watch yet more of our patrimony being sold or given to that one percent that owns over forty percent of the world's wealth, while the other 99 percent struggles to survive, should we try to fight back in any way we can, or should we just be like the flock of sheep that follows the Judas Goat with the bell through the slaughterhouse door?
You tell me. I'm in my seventies. I still remember WW-II and the establishment of the United Nations, to keep horrors like that from ever happening again. I remember all the other wars that have come and gone since then. I remember being taught in school about our Constitution. I remember the reverence that my parents, and we kids, had for that wonderful document. I have watched the neocon dream of world fascism take root and flourish right in front of our faces, while the American Sheeple watch American Idol or their favorite football team -- and follow the goat.
You tell me, what should we do?
I feel your depair! I'm in my mid-fifties, and I too am dismayed at living in a country with a population boasting a majority that
- believes the account of Noah and the flood is real
- dismisses the most verified, sustainable scientific theory (evolution)
- voted for Bush TWICE (enough of 'em so they could then steal both elections)
- 35% of whom approve of using torture
- are not out in the streets over the shredding of their liberty, privacy, and rights
I don't have an answer to your question of "what should we do?"
Me? I'm planning on gathering up the kitties and heading for Cuba.
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
The Democrats and Obama supported the retroactive immunity for Republican George Bush to ensure he wasn't held accountable for the illegal spying program when they passed the FISA ammendment. Thanks "opposition party" Dims.
They also took impeachment off the table, helped pass Patriot and its extensions, funded all of Bush's war requests, etc. Rockefeller's mock outrage over recent allegations of spying sure doesn't convince me. Under Obama, we can assume that this will continue -- and how much more?
Let's not forget to mention the Democratic-Republican bi-partisan support for the greatest transfer of wealth (upwards) ever. They say it's for Main Street not Wall Street with a straight face. In fact it was lobbying by Obama himself (whose top campaign donors are Wall Street firms) that is credited for changing enough votes to help it pass.
Notice how both parties of Big Business are firm believers in the "free market" as long as the profits remain private and the losses are socialized. Free as in free money for the already obscenely wealthy. Thanks "opposition party" Dims.
Cindy Sheehan's starting to get some attention in the SF Bay area. Pelosi's people are apparently showing up at events where Sheehan is about to be endorsed by one of Pelosi's stalwart groups and making a fuss. Check her website for information.
My question in light of the economic malfeasance of the Bush Administration, the War in Iraq, the Military Commissions Act, the Patriot Act, the loss of Habeus Corpus, FISA, and now this...can we impeach now Ms. Pelosi???
What will it take to put impeachment on the table? Is it your intention to simply let the Bush Administration ride off into the sunset with no repercussions? And if so, why? Why would you allow the whole world and the American people to witness such a flagrant disregard for human rights and a reckless disregard for the oaths they AND YOU took to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution?
I pray to God a miracle happens and Sheehan ousts Pelosi in November.
What it would take is for Ms. Pelosi and the other leading Democrats to switch sides in this fight.
This has nothing to do with legal arguments. Back before the last election, both Reid and Pelosi came out and jointly declared there would be no impeachment if the Dems got control of Congress.
I don't know what led to this statement, but my guess is that it would be to reassure big contributors and other powerful people that it was 'safe' to let the Dems have control of Congress.
So, none of this has anything to do with FISA or domestic spying or $800 bailout\theft or Habeus Corpus. The legal case to at least start investigating impeachment of Bush and Cheney has been strong for quite some time.
This is all about Pelosi and Reid deciding that they were willing to protect the criminals in the White House from impeachment as a part of their own grab for power. Its all political. And unless you can convince Pelosi to litterally switch sides from protecting and supporting Bush to representing the citizens of this country and defending our Constitution, it ain't gonna happen.
The best way to signal that it should happen is to help Cindy Sheehan (who's banned from this pro-Democrat site by the way), defeat Pelosi in a few weeks.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Sampson says
"Cindy Sheehan (who's banned from this pro-Democrat site by the way)"
Cindy Sheehan on CommonDreams Oct 10 2008
Cindy Sheehan on CommonDreams May 11, 2008
Cindy Sheehan on CommonDreams July 24, 2008
Cindy Sheehan on CommonDreams July 8, 2007
Cindy Sheehan on CommonDreams June 1, 2007
Cindy Sheehan mentioned 3,100 times on CommonDreams
.Ironic aint it...A supposed progressive web site indulging in censorship...My dear friend and leader of the Free Speech movement there, some decades back, would be appalled....
" There comes a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you cannot take part, you cannot even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies on the gears, and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus. And you've got to make it stop."
Mario Robert Savio
1942-1996
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
It's time for everyone to learn to speak a new language. Something like Icelandic or Huppabubbalish. That should make their eavesdropping a bit more difficult.
I never thought I'd read about this happening in America, the Beacon on the Hill. Talk about a decline!
On my blog some American folk are despairing and afraid. Perhaps the Revolution is getting closer?
www.dangerouscreation.com
Icelantic? Are you friggin kidding me? Their economy is toast! Makes our economy look like a friggin bull market. Besides there is no where on earth any of us can hide from the reach of these people its not just American phones they are tapping its everyones.
Don't resort to hyperbole. There are millions of phone calls. And even if they had the computing power to do voice recognition real-time on all calls, store details, mine the data, and take action -- what sort of action do you expect?
This is a wholly incompetent government. Any attempt to mass-jail Americans would eventually be met with a fire-fight. If not, then we deserve whatever fate awaits us.
"When fascism comes ro America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
.Great quote, thanks for it...An accurate appraisal of current events,too!
" I prefer a man who wraps himself in the Constitution and burns the flag to a man who wraps himself in the flag and burns the Constitution."
Craig Washington, Texas State Senator
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We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
From Article 2, paragraph 2 of Nixon's Letters of Impeachment:
"He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance."
I'm shocked! Shocked! Imagine my surprise when I found out that the NSA was wiretapping Americans' phones. No, no--that couldn't happen in America. It must be that liberal media telling lies again.
ACLU, where are you ?
WWW.ACLU.ORG
Join Now!
Yeah, the ACLU has very much been up on this. They filed a lawsuit even before this latest thing came out; Naomi Klein and Chris Hedges are both plaintiffs, as is The Nation magazine, Human Rights Watch, a couple of unions...
"The more knowledge, the more sorrow". Somewhere in the Bible
Where do these Fascists find the time?
Of course we know how they stole the money!
Who here really thinks that soldiers and cops are looking for terrorists instead of listening to phone sex and viewing big boobs and tight arces on their video screens? All the terrorists have to do is flood the lines with phone sex and their plans will go unnoticed. It's time to get these creeps out of our lives.
I can't wait until it comes out that McBush is spying on Obama's phone calls getting their strategy. You know they have got to be doing this. They haven't be able to resist anything else they weren't supposed to do.
Nader 2008
I think that that is something that the Dems should have considered, when they gave Bush the FISA Amendments. Of course they will use it for political, financial and other reasons. Even if it is unintentional (which it is not), how could it NOT cloud you perception? Also, if you think that "god is on your side", how can any measures be "wrong"?
PLEASE watch this video
Fron Nader's site, and YouTube for Nader help center | e-mail options | report spam
KDelphi95 has shared a video with you on YouTube:
Here
Why Don't I Believe You? DNC in Denver
2008 Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader opposes the secret detention jail which was set up in a warehouse fitted with cages, specifically for detaining Democratic National Convention protesters. Music: Why Don't I Believe You by Bill Langsdorf.
http://www.votenader.org
© 2008 YouTube, LLC
This is a great country isn't it? The New Amerikkka. Well, not so new maybe. And that weasel SOB OH'Bumma spitting on the rule of law and wiping his ass with the US Constitution by signing the FISA (bailout the criminal telecoms) bill after telling all of us how he was against it and why. Remember? Now he's voted to protect the Wall Street crooks at your expense and mine. He seems to have a "thing" for corporate criminals. He must really like them or is it their money? Well you can vote for O'Bamma if you want. But it will mean you are a chump! Oh, and stupid too. It could mean your crazy: Doing the same thing over and over again (voting for a democrat) and expecting a different result. You get the picture. Hunter Thompson was right when he said: "Abandon all hope!" I'll see you in line at the soup kitchen a bit later on.
Yup. I'm tired of being a chump.
A couple of weeks back, Shia LeBeouf told Jay Leno about how an FBI "consultant" on "Eagle Eye" explained that at least one-in-five American citizen' calls were taped and recorded. And to prove his point, said FBI agent played Shia a recording of a call he made two years previous.
If they're tapping Shia, they're tapping every one of us, and we know it, and apparently really don't care all that much... not that we could do anything about it, seeing as how Big Telecom has been granted perpetual immunity from all laws...
Why did Obama vote for the FISA bill after he promised that he would "never"?
And why would anyone calling themselves 'progressives' support this fraud?
Because he promised to FIX everything once he gets into office! Dontcha SEE?
And unlike the NSA, politicians just don't break promises, o ye of little faith!
This is truly one of the most ridiculous excuses I have ever heard.
Why keep voting for things, and then fix them? A huge majority of the country was against the FISA Amend, as well as the Wall St. bailouts.
So why does obama refuse to do the popular thing?
Politicians just dont break promises??? You are being sarcastic, right? Sorry
.The popular thing....
I havent the numbers but Im willing to bet that a great number of our fellow citizens wouldnt care much that the rights of Americans to privacy is being violated. They put security before constitutional guarrantees.
Democracy is threatened precisely because so many of us are not at all outraged at the illegalities of our government. Torture, murder, spying on citizens, ending habeus corpus and posse comitatus protections, looting our treasury on behalf of a small minority of the very wealthy, doesnt seem to bother most of us. Republicans yelling ,"kill him" at a Sara Palin reference to Obama, nothing to see here folks, move along.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Nader is correct in calling the Democratic Party the cesspool of American politics. Like the Rethugs, it is where ideals go to die. I'll no sooner vote Democrat than Republican. Indeed, the country may be better off with a crook in the White House again who nobody trusts -- than a crook who a lot of people trust.
.Do not allow Democratic Loyalists to sway you from your stance, please. The third party movement is in its infancy ( though not actually a new concept of course), it remains the only weapon useful to the people in combatting the power of money and the influence it brings to our system of governance. Short of an armed insurrection of course.
We the people are in the vast majority yet our legislation, our foreign and domestic policies, and our choice of candidates are all decided for us by that small percentage of the wealthiest who write the large campaign checks, take our legislators on 1/2 million dollar junkets, and give them a retirement path in lobbying as well.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
The funny part is that since at least the mid 90's, any terrorist would know not to be talking on a satellite phone. You'd never pick up OBL using one of these. Most of them would never even talk on a cell phone.
Certainly no one in the middle east. For some time now, everyone has known that the Israelis were using cell phone tracking to call in missile strikes. In the late 90's, early 2000's, there were several times when missiles would come down on top of someone the Israelis wanted to kill, and the story was that they were using the cell phones for targeting.
On top of that, they certainly knew these would be monitored and listened to.
So, no terrorist in the Middle east would ever be caught dead (litterally) talking on one of the phones they were monitoring.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
Yes. And they are spying on 750,000 groups and/or p
eople. On the list? (probably Nader, too--mckinney, sp-usa):
Greenpeace, Earth First. Sea Shepherd. Am. Friends Services Comm (Quakers), Unitarian Church.Code Pink.You? Me? Who knows.
They held Capt. Watson's wife for 60 day, (Sea Shepherd, of which I am a member), demanding that she release a membership list.
Now, that is what I call political courage.
Someday it is going to come out that they have been monitoring private telephone conversations that originated and ended in the U.S. also.
Lobo Gris
Yes, it will. I've heard that 'clicking' noise many times during conversations to my friends and family in New York. And politics always came up. It was just on my phone, and they could only hear it when talking to me. I got a new phone and it still happened. Then I kept saying, "You hear that clicking? I swear they are eavesdropping on this conversation." Then it stopped.
Truthseeker58 October 9th, 2008 2:31 pm
"Then I kept saying, "You hear that clicking? I swear they are eavesdropping on this conversation." Then it stopped."
I had the same thing. I would tell the person I was talking to about it and half jokingly mention that the call was probably being monitored. I would tell them let me hang up and call you back, maybe we can get a different line. That seemed to stop it.
Lobo Gris
How to bypass constitutional constraints? Start a war.
I'd have to go search for the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure James Madison said something similar over 200 years ago.
----------------------------
"To know, and not to do, is not to know"
www.samsonsworld.blogspot.com
.Close enough:
" It seems to have been reserved to the people of this country to decide, by their conduct and example, the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice. Or whether they they are ever destined to depend, for their political institutions, on accident and force."
Federalist Paper #1.
Published under the pseudonym "Publicus" a series of such editorials pushing for the inclusion of the State of New York into the new nation. As the chief port of the colonies, NY was very wealthy and advantageoulsy situated soas to not need to join the union. It is believed that the first letter , cited in part above,was the work of Jefferson.
Those of you who have not read this series of editorials should really do so, especially in a time of crisis.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Here's a quote along the same lines:
“Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship…Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
— Nazi leader, Hermann Goering, at the Nuremberg Trials before he was sentenced to death
It's clear where Bush and company got their playbook (and their torture techniques).
Or say that they are "scary" or "stupid" or crazy".
"All that is required for evil to flourish, is for good men to do nothing"
Who said that?