Here Come the Thought Police
With overwhelming bipartisan support, Rep. Jane Harman’s “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act” passed the House 404-6 late last month and now rests in Sen. Joe Lieberman’s Homeland Security Committee. Swift Senate passage appears certain.
Not since the “Patriot Act” of 2001 has any bill so threatened our constitutionally guaranteed rights.
The historian Henry Steele Commager, denouncing President John Adams’ suppression of free speech in the 1790s, argued that the Bill of Rights was not written to protect government from dissenters but to provide a legal means for citizens to oppose a government they didn’t trust. Thomas Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence not only proclaimed the right to dissent but declared it a people’s duty, under certain conditions, to alter or abolish their government.
In that vein, diverse groups vigorously oppose Ms. Harman’s effort to stifle dissent. Unfortunately, the mainstream press and leading presidential candidates remain silent.
Ms. Harman, a California Democrat, thinks it likely that the United States will face a native brand of terrorism in the immediate future and offers a plan to deal with ideologically based violence.
But her plan is a greater danger to us than the threats she fears. Her bill tramples constitutional rights by creating a commission with sweeping investigative power and a mandate to propose laws prohibiting whatever the commission labels “homegrown terrorism.”
The proposed commission is a menace through its power to hold hearings, take testimony and administer oaths, an authority granted to even individual members of the commission - little Joe McCarthys - who will tour the country to hold their own private hearings. An aura of authority will automatically accompany this congressionally authorized mandate to expose native terrorism.
Ms. Harman’s proposal includes an absurd attack on the Internet, criticizing it for providing Americans with “access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda,” and legalizes an insidious infiltration of targeted organizations. The misnamed “Center of Excellence,” which would function after the commission is disbanded in 18 months, gives the semblance of intellectual research to what is otherwise the suppression of dissent.
While its purpose is to prevent terrorism, the bill doesn’t criminalize any specific conduct or contain penalties. But the commission’s findings will be cited by those who see a terrorist under every bed and who will demand enactment of criminal penalties that further restrict free speech and other civil liberties. Action contrary to the commission’s findings will be interpreted as a sign of treason at worst or a lack of patriotism at the least.
While Ms. Harman denies that her proposal creates “thought police,” it defines “homegrown terrorism” as “planned” or “threatened” use of force to coerce the government or the people in the promotion of “political or social objectives.” That means that no force need actually have occurred as long as the government charges that the individual or group thought about doing it.
Any social or economic reform is fair game. Have a march of 100 or 100,000 people to demand a reform - amnesty for illegal immigrants or overturning Roe v. Wade - and someone can perceive that to be a use of force to intimidate the people, courts or government.
The bill defines “violent radicalization” as promoting an “extremist belief system.” But American governments, state and national, have a long history of interpreting radical “belief systems” as inevitably leading to violence to facilitate change.
Examples of the resulting crackdowns on such protests include the conviction and execution of anarchists tied to Chicago’s 1886 Haymarket Riot. Hearings conducted by the House Un-American Activities Committee for several decades during the Cold War and the solo hearings by a member of that committee’s Senate counterpart, Joseph McCarthy, demonstrate the dangers inherent in Ms. Harman’s legislation.
Ms. Harman denies that her bill is a threat to the First Amendment. It clearly states that no measure to prevent homegrown terrorism should violate “constitutional rights, civil rights or civil liberties.”
But the present administration has demonstrated, in its response to criticism regarding torture, that it can’t be trusted to honor those rights.
Ralph E. Shaffer, professor emeritus of history at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, and R. William Robinson, an elected director of a Southern California water district, wrote this article for the History News Service.
Copyright © 2007, The Baltimore Sun
“An aura of authority will automatically accompany this congressionally authorized mandate to expose native terrorism.”
Here come the Salem witch trials of the 21st century!
Wow, the Alien and Sedition Act of 2007 finally is here. The last piece of the Bill of Rights just went through the paper shredder!
Any criticism of this brilliant group of diplomats and legislators automatically places you on the watch list, lose your job, your house, your assets. Maybe this is how we’ll pay for the 100 year war for corporate control of global resources.
404-6. Party doesn’t matter. Mainstream media give it no critical coverage—they function as a palace press when they’re not pimping for big corporations. Kucinich will speak about it. No other “liberal” presidential candidates will make a fuss about it.
Does the public care? Not much. Will there be protest? Sure, a few letters here and there. Not enough to make a substantive difference.
This is the country that committed genocide against millions of natives it displaced, imposed slavery on most of its blacks until 1865, imposed Jim Crow on its southern blacks until 1965, has committed more than 50 internationally illegal assaults on other countries in the last 110 years, leaves nearly 50 million of its residents without health care, and jails a higher proportion of its population than any other country on earth, democratic or not.
Mrs. Harman is in the US mainstream. Unfortunately the US mainstream is far right.
Another example showing that democrats and republicans are cut from the same cloth. Seems like we are headed towards fascism faster rate than even the Germans. On the positive side (if there is such a thing when the constitution is being shredded), perhaps now Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity et al. can be “brought to justice” for their hate mongering.
Homeland Security - Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment
The hearing was chaired by Democratic Rep. Jane Harman, and ranking Republican, Rep. Dave Reichert.
Toward the end of the hearing, Weitzman rolls out a PowerPoint presentation that presents a few nine/11 truth sites sandwiched in between websites that offer training in terrorist tactics, and a website that glorified the attack of nine/11. Among the websites presented under the heading “Internet: Incubator of nine/11 Conpiracies and Disinfomation”, are Architects & Engineers for nine/11 Truuthh, and other sites, such as Killltown’s, who brought this Hearing to our attention.
Please ask the Simon Wiesthenthal Center (Mark Weitzman in particular) to stop conflating terrorist violence with nine/11 truuthh, and even though he has not extended the courtesy to us, be polite;
* Exact Hearing title: “Using the Web as a Weapon: the Internet as a Tool for Violennt Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorizm”
HR 1955–look it up!
As indicated by the 404-6 vote, true American patriots support this new commission whole-heartedly. Messrs. Shaffer and Robinson, if you have a problem with the commission, you must be violent radicals so you should report to the nearest detention center immediately. Bring your toothbrush but not your copy of the quaint and outmoded Bill of Rights.
I would like to know who the six congresspersons were who voted against this atrocity of a bill…and you say it will sail easily through the Senate? I surely hope Kucinich voted against it. Is there no one left in this country who actually thinks anymore? Reading this puts me near to tears.
Sad to say…but fascism is here in the US of A….the beacon of citizen suppression…
And out of the ashes the Pheonix arose. “Tail gunner” Joe Mccarthy will arrive and the senatorial hearings will begin.
“Siouxrose, are you a poster on Common Dreams, do you know a person who goes by the name of Ken”?
If I were a Democrat in Harman’s district, I’d sure be glad I voted for her and not the Republican. Republicans are baaaaaaaad!
We had better enjoy using CD while we can to get an idea what real thinkers feel about our country, instead of just listening to the robots and their MSM. It seems there is no end to their constant drumbeat of fear and the moronic tactics they are prepared to use against our citizens freedoms. Too bad our congress just lays down and gets walked on every time someone says terrorism. After is too late to stop, most of them will begin to see, with their foggy minds, what they have done.
Another nail in the coffin of our colletive founding fathers dream of a country free from the malfeasence of a corrupt crown, who would use any excuse, to deny the people their inalienable rights.
These cowerering children, afraid “the people” will use the Internet to pull up the rocks they are hiding under, and discover the nature of the game, will do all they can to shut it down.
Pretty soon, all we’ll get is CNN.com, Fox.com and Disney.com.
Be entertained pleb’s, we are protecting you, trust us. Go back to work, shut up about the price of gas, we are saving you from the evil doers - be grateful.
“The bill defines “violent radicalization” as promoting an “extremist belief system”
Oh, so they are outlawing the Republican Party? GOOD.
I hope President Hillary makes full use of the provisions of this bill to wipe these Corporate Extremists from the country.
just kidding.
I looked it up, and yes, Dennis Kucinich was one of the six congressmen–3 Dems, 3 Reps–who voted against this latest craziness. Thank you, Dennis.
Who is driving this stuff…and by the way, this is the first I’ve heard of this bill, and I usually try to keep up. Oh, there I go again, depending on the MSM to keep me informed. Shoulda known better.
Gimme an A! Gimme an I! Gimme a P! Gimme an A! Gimme a C!!
Nothing can scare the Dumbersluts like the threat of being labelled anti-semitic if they don’t energetically back some surreptitious zionazi project. The cat is out of the bag, and the more that they scream “thinly-veiled anti-semitism!” the more obvious it is just what groups in the US continue to promote repressive legislation.
My first reaction was ‘why are we only hearing about this after it’s already passed the house?’. Silly me.
And I’m not surprised at the overwhelming bipartisan support–the reason the Dems aren’t squawking and fighting about this slide towards facism and have rubber stamped all the assaults on our rights and Constitution is obvious, they want to wield the power as much as the rethuglicans. Does anyone here think Hillary isn’t slobbering about getting her hands on ‘executive privilege’ and signing statements as much as Ghouliani?
Well, taken at face value this appears to be another show of justification for the existence of Congress. They must and will continue to rely on fear and their imaginary ability to protect us all from everything to give some meaning to their positions of authority, other than, of course, to extort all the cash they can for themselves and their constituents before the next election. We do still have elections don’t we? But in addition to coming to our rescue, this bill seems to be a nice first step in heavily censoring the internet.
This is one fo the findings listed in the bill.
`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.
Along the same lines of reasoning, or lack therof, as the old fable that listening to rock music makes our children do drugs and be promiscuous, the wrong-wing conservatives now want us to believe that the difference between a conscientious supporter of human rights and a fanatical, violent terrorist is what he reads on the internet. When in reality, the thing the neo-cons fear most and will stop at nothing to prevent is a citizenry who thinks for itself. Expect the free flow of information on the worldwide web to come to a free flow of disinformation, much like the MSM already has become.
It is growing awfully late to reverse what this misadministration has created. Vote Kucinich. Or just smile and nod while the last of your human rights are destroyed…
The thought Police are already here, just hard to spot. These bills will just make them more blatant. You might find these links of interest on the subject.
http://www.populistamerica.com/violent_radicalizers_and_homegrown_terrorists
http://www.populistamerica.com/return_the_constitution_to_the_halls_of_government
As I’ve said before, when the lawmakers are the lawbreakers there is not much representative democracy left. Look in your history books to see where we are going. Apparently, we never learn.
As the name suggests this articel appeared this morning while I was eating breakfast…I almost puked!
Tonight, I write my Representative and Senators trembling with fear that it may interpreted as an extremist position!
Aren’t we lucky that OJ, Paris, Mushy, Sarkosy were in the news last week? I’m sure my Representaive was!
The cave is looking better and better every day…so I’m going back in - C’ya!
This bill is doubleplusgood!
Kucinich was one of three Democrats who voted no.
Bravo Dennis!
Here is the roll call of HR 1955:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Nos in red (6). Non-votes in Green (22).
Maybe we all should call our own State Governors, have them meet us at the Capitol buildings in our States, call a press conference, and start praying to God to save us. We could even do a two-fer, by asking him/her to also make it rain in Georgia.
SHAFFER AND ROBINSON ARE KNOWN SUBVERSIVES
Our Neighbor Hood Watch Group, Blackwater Local #999 - Armageddon Division, has had Shaffer and Robinson under surveillance for some time.
The first indication something was up was their unusually large vocabularies and the ability to speak and write in complete sentences coupled with much time spent on the internet.
So far, we’ve located over 200 internet posts by each of them that included “terrorist - related propaganda” containing such phrases as “burning the flag is a form of free speech, illegal immigrants aren’t terrorists and tourists with cameras in NYC are posting photos of buildings on the internet.”
Since 20 million other people were also doing the same thing, we decided to DIG DEEPER, using our new Micro-Zoom Stationary-Blimp-Cameras from Blackwater.
We now know that Shaffer and Robinson cannot account for TEN PERCENT of the gasoline they purchased for the last two years. Based on a combination of gas fill-up counts, MPG estimates and point-to-point measures of mileage distance, WE BELIEVE THEY ARE USING THE EXTRA GAS TO BUILD A GIANT, HOME-MADE, DAISY-CUTTER AIR FUSION BOMB IN THEIR GARAGE.
Most important of all, we can prove this is a direct result of what Shaffer and Robinson have READ ON THE INTERNET.
Based on the web sites they visit, our pattern-recognition software uses personality profiles from the Meyers Briggs test to process those URL hits that puts them right up there with Timothy McVeigh and Louis Farrakhan … so let the commission investigations begin with these two - Robinson and Shaffer - AS A SIGNAL TO THE REST OF THEM.
Finally, thank God Ms Harman has brought the rest of Congress to its senses to CHALLENGE NET NEUTRALITY for what it really is - A FREE PASS AND CONDUIT FOR TERRORISTS EVERYWHERE.
And we thought the FCC lifting of ownership and net neutral restrictions was a problem - well hey, who cares about the flies when you’re up to your butt in alligators?
As for our bounty-hunter fees Ms. Harman, they’re quite reasonable. We can do one combined data-dump for Shaffer and Robinson together at $1,000,000 or if separate, only $750,000 each. Of course this is above the usual Blackwater permanent government funding for the next century.
That way you can shut down right away all those web sites ACCESSIBLE TO AND READ by Shaffer and Robinson so the remaining UNPATRIOTIC citizens won’t be contaminated and transformed into terrorists as well - nothing like HIGH-TECH BOOK BURNING to stop terrorism, right Ms. Harman?
We haven’t been this excited since the frenzied aftermath of 9-11 when we dressed in disguise as utility meter readers to spy and take close-up pics of all the suspicious brown people in town.
Thanks Ms. Harman! What patriotism! What a boost in morale! You’re welcome to attend our town meetings on Intelligent Design anytime! And the first content we want banned from the internet is “White Man Unburdened” by Norman Mailer.
This is another premptive strike against an already marginalized population. Realizing that there is a rising level of discontent produced by a wholesale shredding of the quality of life for millions of Americans, a paranoid set of rules needs to be set in place to ensure that that status quo is preserved. Pick any failed, horror filled nation state from the pages of history, see the cycle from crushing debtor status to full frontal facism, and learn from it. We can confidently determine points where it’s going to get much worse, before it gets any better.
Why was it we were supposed to vote for the Democrats anyway? Because they would supposedly be better than the Republicans? Pardon me while I go puke.
Lobo Gris
Governmental enforcement of laws having criminal penalties ultimately rests on the threatened use of force by government agents (police, federal marshals, etc.). Since the purpose of such laws clearly includes the “furtherance of social objectives”, this Bill’s definition of “homegrown terrorism” (quoted below) is broad enough to include most activities of our government in its definition of “homegrown terrorism” (how ironic that is!). The use of such generic wording in a bill of such importance is a invitation for abuse.
Quoted from the Bill:
“HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.—The term ‘homegrown terrorism’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
The common denominator of most of America’s woes - economic, moral, military, constitutional, political and psychological - is still fear. It is out of vogue to resurrect the bogeyman of Osama bin Laden as the ghostly agent of our destruction, but I keep remembering his placid smile and the dark knowledge that guided the strike that effortlessly took down the WTC and imploded our culture, like the tip of a matador’s sword piercing the vital spot deep inside a raging bull. Today, billions of dollars later, countless airport strip searches later, hundreds of tortured detainees later, hundreds of thousands of dead noncombatants later, our constitution is in shreds, our population is polarized, our borders are wired shut, our economy is on the verge of recession, our politicians are speaking gibberish and we are passing laws that allow us to terrorize ourselves. From wherever he sits contemplating the success of his handiwork, Osama certainly must see no need for further attacks against the Great Satan. The towers are only in mid-collapse.
Lets just admit it upfront. Per the above definition almost all of us here are “Homegrown Terrorists”, and even if we are not, it would not be too hard to argue that we are….
Crazy on top of crazy.
I’m glad i’m about to get out of this all. Or at least i am going to try.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
because per the above defintion…to “coerce” the “government” or the “civilian population” is “terrorism”. Wow.
this is why, the only “rogue government” that i’m aware of is the one in my own country.
But, there are some of us, who stand for something besides money.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
The American people were always the true targets in their Orwellian war.
because per the above defintion…to “coerce” the “government” or the “civilian population” is “terrorism”.
telemarketers - you’re on notice.
The frog is in the pot, and the water is at about 160 degrees F.
How come I get the feeling that “Homegrown Terrorism” is a euphemism for opposition to fascism?
Bingo Kivals!
Hasn’t the current administration already violated this proposed law umpteen times already? If someone were to utter the whole Declaration, they would be deemed a terrorist.
Does this apply to all special interest groups and lobbyists? Can they now be tagged as terrorists?
If it can be proven that Fox News attempts to coerce the public, does it become a terrorist organization?
At work recently I was asked to remove from my cube wall the quote by Hermann Goering: “Of course the people can always be made to do the leader’s bidding; all you have to do is tell them they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists as being unpratriotic.” Why was I asked to remove it? Because somebody (an unknown to me) told my boss they thought the quote was a good one, but since it was originally uttered by a Nazi it made him feel like a Nazi too. Which of course was the purpose. I was told that we check our first ammendment rights at the corporate door, something I’m sure that the 7 of 9 members of the supreme court appointed by right-wing presidents would agree with. Does that mean that all rights are checked at the door? I’m sure the corporation maintains its constitutional rights (even thought they have always been questionable).
Two weeks ago a friend of mine was asked to leave a party because someone got in her face about the “Impeach Bush” sign in her front yard. I told her she should be proud, that if she complained about their “Vote for Bush” bumper sticker she would be told it was a free country after all.
If this legislation had been tried to be pushed through while Clinton was in office the right would have been outraged. I can’t believe they are so short-sighted. But it does after all push towards fascism, which is what they want anyway. They think they are all the chosen and it will never come back to bite them. But history shows that the un-bitten are the exception, not the rule, when fascism runs its inevitable course once it is set to.
“Ms. Harman denies that her bill is a threat to the First Amendment. It clearly states that no measure to prevent homegrown terrorism should violate “constitutional rights, civil rights or civil liberties.””
It doesn’t matter what the document states; what does matter is how the courts interpret “violations” of our constitutional and civil rights/liberties in relation to the entire text of the document along with its “Patriot Act” predecessor.
It will be interesting to see what the sponsors of “The World Justice Project” (http://www.abanet.org/wjp/home.html) have to say about this legislation. I would also like to hear an opinion from the ACLU.
Hey, folks. I think we are unnecessarily working ourselves up into a lather over nothing. We all know that our wise and intelligent president (Ivy League educated, no less) will veto such a blatantly unconstitutional bill when it clears the Senate. Barring that, I am sure our learned and impartial Supreme Court will declare this law unconstitutional.
At any rate, King Ralph Nader the Potentate is set to take office in 2009, thereby setting all that is wrong right and restoring order and balance to the universe. All praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Anyone who hasn’t done so should read Molly Ivins’s last book “Bill of Wrongs.” She saw where things were headed and put it into words. I miss her so much!
Would anyone be surprised if we don’t have an election in 2008 because martial law has been declared and the election suspended? It seems like anything can happen.
Somehow this seems like an extention of the Christian concept that what we believe is more important than how we behave or the works we do. I have Christian friends and family who admit that they believe anyone who does not buy into the 2,000 year old myth that Jesus died for our sins will really and truly wind up in eternal agony of some kind JUST FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE no matter how good they are in practice.
It’s the original thought police filtering down, once again, into politics.
Having people tell me what to think, or what is permissible to think, pisses me off. Both the Right and the Left do it, to varying degrees.
As long as I am not calling for someone else to be hurt or killed, leave me the hell alone.
Tijuana
People don’t want to censor Faux “news” - they just think it actually should be news. You know, with facts and informaton.
If someone wanted to put on a show like Faux “news” as a rightwing answer to, for example, The Daily Show, it would be quite alright.
I think people pretty much just object to fabrications being tauted as truth, obvious extreme rightwingnut bias as “fair and balanced,” and anything left of Atilla the Hun being denounced as unpatriotic.
Anyone heard from Daniel David lately?—-I’m alittle bit worried about his long silence. Would love to hear his rationale for this vote–especially the fact that one of the main sponsors has a D after her name.
What I would like to know folks, is who actually wrote this dispicable piece of legislation? I mean who typed the actual wording? Who is REALLY behind this?
Are the Dems, like Pelosi and Hillary, just so eager to convince the population that they aren’t soft on terror? Or are they part of the in-crowd who still somehow think they will be spared when the Iron Heel comes crashing down on what little is left of our freedoms?
It’s hard to believe that we could have managed to elect 404 fascist-enthusiasts. or is it just fascist-enablers. Is it possible they all operate under death threats? Guess we’ll know if there is mass defections of Congresspeople who won’t stand for re-election in 2008. DK, I love you!
What the hell was wrong with the old term, “domestic terrorism”?
Lawmakers need a new way to pitch the hype? At times like this, I realize how
effective it is for the US military and LAPD to both have PR offices specially deployed
in Hollywood.
Next time you see a movie blockbuster using high-tech military and paramilitary
equipment gunning for all of us good Americans, remember access to the really
nice toys require cooperation with the US military and the police.
“Homegrown terrorism” is sure to be a blockbuster of a deal!
Get out of here? They actually have on-call paramilitary police who will show up to
play a cop in the movies?!
To bad, Arnie is busy playing politics, he could have been a great cop.
oh, wait! what the hell am I saying?!
a
What, ya think comrade Harman thought of all those pretty words herself?
“While Ms. Harman denies that her proposal creates “thought police,” it defines “homegrown terrorism” as “planned” or “threatened” use of force to coerce the government or the people in the promotion of “political or social objectives.”
She’s sooooo late to the party:
“The FBI defines terrorism as the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
“The American Heritage Dictionary: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.”
U.S. Code of Federal Regulations: “…the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
USA PATRIOT Act: “activities that (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the U.S. or of any state, that (B) appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping, and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.”
US Department of Defense: “the unlawful use of — or threatened use of — force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.”
We were talking about… what, again? Jane someone?
Ms. Harman must be a member of her own local bridge club who banned the four champion American players in Shanghai for simply saying they didn’t vote for the depraved degenerate in the White House. No trump, anyone?
They’ll need to be careful how they define terrorism and extremism.
Is it now extreme to advocate for the First and Fourth Amendments?
Is it now mainstream to subvert them?
Or does it matter primarily who you are, rather than what is being done?
Maybe this is just an example of the government using heavy-handed/fear techniques to govern. For instance, let’s take a hundred people. If you can scare 75% of them into remaining orderly, you might be able to make an example of out 1-2 of them and bring another 20-24% in line. That leaves only 1% or so to worry about.
Anyone know the exact bill this article references? It seems to refer only to “violent” radicalization. So while they may jail modern-day Founding Fathers who did indeed have that revolutionary spirit, they won’t be jailing a modern-day MLK or Ghandi — at first glance, anyway.
In any case, it’s not the proclamations anyone has to worry about: it’s the negative effect they may have on our Bill of Rights. Far worse than a nation that forcibly violates things like free speech and freedom from warrantless search is one in which the people — themselves — willingly self-censor their discontent. A nation of sheeple.
The very fact that we can even talk about this is because we are talking about it.
And note it says “use of force”, not “violence” to promote an agenda. Well, nonviolent direct action is effectively a form of “force”, so I guess this means that any form of mass resistance - even just strikes or picket-lines, are henceforth to be considered a form of terrorism.
My main problem is why-why-WHY are we wasting time with this ludicrous BS….
The poles of the earth (as well as elsewhere) are changing rapidly and terrorist are the last thing we really need to be concerning ourselves with….
what a crock…
Ken Hausle
And furthermore, who is going to enforce this bullshit? Who and how.
I just don’t see it happening, or if it gets to that, then the fugging doo-doo will already be hitting the fan in earnest in all sorts of ways, and all bets are off. Is that what we want?
Not me.
I’ve looked at the bill - it’s on-line at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c11095u9kT::.
There’s no truth that I can see in the claims by the authors here that this is anything other than another of those dumb commissions that Congress establishes to spew out reports which will ultimately be ignored but in the meantime will provide stipends to some pols and academics and can be referenced as productive activity to the folks back home.
By the way - that’s why no one has raised a stink about it. DUH!
Maybe Ms. Harmon is secretly a genius …
“The term `homegrown terrorism’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
That sounds like a wonderful excuse to arrest the police officials planning to use force to disrupt any protest in the futherance of political or social objectives!
Actually, as soon as a police official stood up and threatened the use of force to break up an assembly, by that definition they’d be a ‘homegrown terrorist’!
Yeah, I’m being sarcastic … somewhat.
Mr. Bramscher,
The bill also defined “violent radicalization” as the promotion of “extremist belief systems”. I can assure you, MLK was considered an “extremist” by large number of USAns, especially after the Riverside Church speech.
As far as us being free to talk about this as an indication that our rights are intact - of course we can. We will be heard only in this obscure soundproof corner of the internet that only one or two in a few hundred USAns have even heard of. This is one very pernicious problem with internet utilities like this - they create the illusion of free speech when actually it is just so much preaching to a choir in a sealed, soundproof church.
The test of freedom of speech isn’t the “freedom” to grumble amongst ourselves in private - even people in Stalin’s Russia could do that. The true test of “free-speech” is how the government and corporations react when our speech might actually become effective at forcing change.
We already know the answer to that question.
For example, here in Pennsylvania, the free-speech-rights for certain small dairy companies to state “we don’t buy milk from farmers who use Monsanto’s rGST” on their milk cartons was promptly removed when it started to hurt Monsanto’s profits. Effective January 1, 2008, they will be gagged by the PA State government from informing the consumer whether the milk was made with rBST or not.
rhutcheson,
Thanks for the reference. The fact that it was missing from the article probably underscores your point. I got a brief glimpse at it, and saw that the focus was aimed against acts of violence, not against constitutionally protected rights.
What’s the name of the Bill, though? Thomas is a shameful/outmoded/quirky system — you can’t bookmark searched results (they disappear). In many ways, Thomas is a microcosm of our government as a whole.
rhutcheson is basically right. There’s nothing in this bill besides wasting some more of our taxpayers dollars creating this commission and center of excellence. The latter is mainly pork to be dolled out, probably to some university, probably in Ms. Harmon’s district.
We should probably watch that its activities don’t get out of control, as it does have the ability to use people from other agencies and to spend appropriated money. And the 10 person commission will be tilted 6-4 in favor of whatever Administration is in power.
But beyond some basic watchdog stuff typical to any government thingy, there’s not much dangerous in here. Yes, its a stupid idea. And it supports a dangerous and stupid idea that could get out of control. But this particular piece of legislation just really does make yet another stupid federal commission and a pork-barrel university scam to grab some of our tax money.
H.R.1955
Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)
The National Motto of the United States is no longer E Pluribus Unum or In God We Trust or even Eat At Joe’s. It is now, purely and simply: FUCK YOU!
In my own mind, I recap the national security reasons offered by our government for all of this dissolving acid dumped on our constitution: So the US government will have better means to fight the very terrorism its Empire policies are causing.
It’s enough to make a person physically nauseous–and just more proof that what’s left of the legal basis of our society is going down the toilet.
Ken Hausle - I dunno what you mean by saying “The poles of the earth…are changing rapidly…”
All I know is that our goverment has just proposed another legalized lurch toward silencing dissent of its citizens.
How can this be “…the last thing we really need to be concerning ourselves with..” -???
Sorry if I misunderstood your meaning - but please explain.
THE REAL THREAT TO THE INITED STATES IS THE WHOLE GROUP IN WASHINGTON ( EXCEPT FOR THE SIX PATRIOTS WHO VOTED NO ) FROM BUSH AND CHENEY DOWN THROUGH BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS. THROW THEM ALL OUT! MY GOD, ANOTHER BILLION OF DOLLARS WILL BE SPENT AMD MORE MILLIONS OF IDIOTS WILL BE HIRED. BUT THAT’S OKAY, I’LL MAKE A FORTUNE SELLING THEM NAZI ARM BANDS.
Kane51: Those voting No were Democrats Kucinich, Abercrombie and Costello; and Republicans Duncan, Flake and Rohrbacher.
The legislation says not to worry about civil rights. The DHS will have an auditor to keep and eye on things and report to Congress ONCE A YEAR.
The “extremist ideologies” we are to fear are not named, but Los Angeles immediately starting “mapping” Muslims. There seems to be no media coverage except in Los Angeles, interestingly enough. Who will DHS go after, do you suppose — the ACLU, the Quakers and other peace and justice groups, all those Islamofascists Mr. Bush worries about constantly?
I have called my Senator and written the ACLU.
What i meant is when it comes to sustaining humanity the earth is changing in ways that demand serious attention, so it boggles my mind when our federal government seems so clueless…
Sorry if i was unclear.
Ken Hausle
We’re going to need an underground.
“Are the Dems, like Pelosi and Hillary, just so eager to convince the population that they aren’t soft on terror? Or are they part of the in-crowd who still somehow think they will be spared when the Iron Heel comes crashing down on what little is left of our freedoms?
The problem is that the Dems want to be the new Iron Heel. If they don’t rein in Cheney/Bu$hCo and reassert the rule of the Constitution, then they inherit the criminal government of Cheney/Bush, intact and functioning, with eight years of legal precedent to protect them. Remember what Jefferson said:
“The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
For the past eight years, or more, the establishment has allowed those chains to be severed, link by link, until the government has become legalized criminality. The new gang wants it all intact to use for themselves, therefore, no impeachment, no strong Constitutional restoration bills, no repeal of the Patriot Act or any of the other draconian and nauseating bills that have been passed to negate our Bill of Rights.
Frankly, I think it is probably too late, but we’ve got to keep trying or we will all end up as German Jews.
WOW!
while reading that article… for a moment there i saw… the vultures circling; and descending so thick that they blacked out the sky.
Look at the entries above here from me, COMarc and Paul Bramscher: this article is wrong. The Congressional bill is just another pork-barrel log-roller. It’s not a fascist plot!
GAIL: I’m sure you realize how ominous it is to have a court composed of the likes of the right-wing unitary executive authoritarian inquisitors being the ones to interpret this law.
PAUL BRAMSCHER: Astute use of statistics to make your clear case.
KEM: I can’t identify with your (rhetorical?) question, do I know Ken?
As a writer, I know that the name elected to represent a character in fiction is significant, often it speaks out metaphorically to connote traits of said individual. The name Harm On always troubled me, now I see why.
Byrd should give these imbeciles a history lesson. Like they haven’t seen similar “laws” drawn up by other lands to begin the stampede against citizens, starting with the intelligentsia, that be us, gang. Every day there are more reasons to leave this land of the pseudo-free. Someone made mention of his DNA being hardwired as a Jew having realized what happened in broad daylight in a “civilized” nation. Threats abound, but the logical mind comforts with the distorting notion, “This can’t BE happening.” AS indeed it is, and then the day comes when “where are your papers, frauline” and some ‘i’ is not properly dotted, and you ain’t goin nowhere, lest mr. unitary and his pack of spiritually bankrupt wolves determine so.
Watching the footage of those coastal dwellers of Bangladesh, knowing as an American, living in this privileged society, my use of any substance along with that of my 300 million peers, has in essence SENT those killer waves to those vulnerable people. Global warming has our names written all over it. Meanwhile, America’s obese buy turkey and the many high-caloric components that go with those birds, our national sacrificial “lambs.” It’s tough to watch the juxtapositioning of modern events as they unfold.
One thing’s certain. This appears to be a bill that guarantees that terrorism will flourish in the United States.
The terrorists will be those Americans who refuse to be trampled by idiots like Harman, and Bush and Cheney worshippers, and who take up guns to take the country back from these people or their successors and take it back to reality and liberty.
On the other hand, I doubt the American people have the stomach for liberty anymore. They’re certainly hellbent on denying it to other countries and peoples.
so it’s a pork-barrel, log-rolled, fascist plot.
maybe the “Homegrown” terrorism is refering to potsmokers, because a lot of potsmokers want peace, and peace (as we all know) is code for terror.
Yes, US mainstream is FAR RIGHT. Good bye democracy.
Nothing short of a true restoration of the Republic will do.
“A republic if you can keep it.” Benjamin Franklin
I went to complain to my Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren only to find she is one of the co-sponsors of the bill ( the bill was originally submitted to 2 committees she serves on - the Committee on Homeland Security and the Committee on the Judiciary.)
All testimony given seemed to mainly from law enforcement officials, both federal and local, serving in the LA basin.
These are the same folks who were ready to map the locations of all Muslims living in LA county “to keep an eye on them and identify potential terrorist recruitment centers” until the negative and adverse publicity forced them to drop the idea(at least in public)just late last week.
This is how citizens rights under this act would be protected. Watch for Muslim mapping (or Jewish mapping, or Hispanic mapping, or….mapping after Senate passes bill. I could be wrong, but…..
I am now drawing up a letter to Zoe asking her forgiveness for any dissent in the past. I am also going to thank her for making my life easier since I cannot protest any actions of the government, in private or in public. I tend to be outspoken and I do not want my efforts to be considered ‘homegrown terrorism’. I will practice my religion in secret as well. I do not want to be found guilty of IDEOLOGICALLY-BASED VIOLENCE. (The term `ideologically-based violence’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs.)
Any other suggestions including any and/or all ‘foot in mouth’….er I mean tongue in cheek gladly accepted.
My friend just moved from beautiful
Kaneohe, Hawaii on the island of
Oahu to an equally beautiful island
(I’ve heard) off the coast of Thailand
called Phuket.
He’s not bailing because of our current
political crisis but for his own personal
reasons. I warned him to keep his mouth
shut and find a Thai babe.
I entertain thoughts of getting the hell
outta town maybe to Palma-Majorca or
Venezuela. In the meantime I give time
and money to DK and RP.
When they ask, will Common Dreams give them our email addresses?
Let’t take a look back at our history. This bill sounds like something King George would have loved to have to apply against the founding fathers of the United States. yes,they were “homegrown terrorists” per the definition of this bill. Of course, they were also “insurgents.” We all know about that word and who uses it. Our current day leaders have totally lost contact with the founding of this nation and the basic principles as they trash the constitution and our bill of rights. As the republicans and democrats work daily to destroy our nation through lies and deceit…it is time. Time for patriots to rise up.
Excuse me Congress doesn’t have time to stand their Oathes of Office and defend the Constitution but not only brings but votes upon this nonsense?????
IMPEACH AND PROSECUTE NOW ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION
AND IN THIS STATEMENT I INCLUDE All Republicans and Democracts alike Whomever disreguards the US CONSTITUTION
This agreement is what makes us a nation of Sovereign Individuals with God given rights….This is where the right to rule comes from….and without it no rights or right to rule
Wake up America or you may be permanently sleeping
I like to know that my freedom is codified under rule of law, and not simply due to the mercy, whimsy or caprice of politicians unbound to it.
My antennae do not shoot up over the bill referenced in this article, but it remains something to keep an eye on — to see that it doesn’t cross over to civil liberties, the Constitution, etc.
I also remain concerned that the greatest threat to American liberties, freedom, etc. today is no longer foreign terrorists. If anything, now is the time to write some bills reaffirming our Bill of Rights, habeas corpus, privacy, civil liberties, etc. After all, we’re winning the war on terror, and it’s coming to a close. Isn’t it? I mean, we’ve been there longer than we fought against Nazi Germany. We’re not fighting an advanced mechanized army, air force, navy, etc. What’s the hold up?
Interesting, a book came out this month about Joe McCarthy, saying he got a bad rap for his efforts to root out the communists. Kind of made him look like a poor misunderstood patriot fighting against a conspiracy in government that was protecting the Communists.
Speaking of homegrown terrorism, what ever happened to that Anthrax investigation? Weapons grade Anthrax can’t be that hard to trace, can it?
Terrorism is simply a criminal act or threat of violence, for political or idealogical purposes. It is typically conducted in countries where there is a repressive government in place or in foreign occupied countries. The same tools used to fight crimes committed for greed , hate or passion can be used for home grown terrorism. We have not had any home grown terrorism since the 2001 Anthrax attacks, and the people in this country seem pretty pacified based on my latest trip to the US last month (just returned home last week and I never heard about this bill passing while in the states). So what has prompted this bill passing with such strong bipartisan support?
Could it be Republicans anticipate events which may prompt people to wake up, like suspension of elections next year due to martial law being imposed as a result of a national emergency (Iran, another 9/11 attack, etc), and so the law is proactive in order to allow them to legally crack down on the expected dissent? Are the Democrats fearful of rightwing terrorism re-emerging when they take power in 2008 and want a tool to use to crack down on the right wing fruitcakes who make inflammatory statements like “we need another 9/11″? Beats me, but it is just one more more case convincing me that this country is certifiably insane or being controlled by elements outside of our constitutional government.
In the perfect world, every incumbent would be voted out in the next election, regardless of party, and campaign finance reform to make campaigns government funded would be passed implemented. Unfortunately, after taking the pulse of those in the US recently , my sense is people prefer to remain in lala land and stay blissfully ignorant until it is too late. Many seem to feel having a Democrat as President who has been part of the problem these past 7 years will change things. The reality is that Hillary Clinton has been appointed by the corporate and financial elite to be President and will just be an extension of the Bush-Clinton Dynasty once the formalities of the election are over with. She will simply follow her marching orders from those who rule us in the shadows.
“The factory mass produces fear
bottled ,caped ,distributed near or far
sold for a resonable price.
The people they love it, they feed it,
brush with it , bath with it , breath it,
inject it direct to the blood ,
it seems to be replacing love.”
from Eat the Meek
nofx
When Ralph Nader, God Bless Him, campaigned against ‘Tweedlee Dee and Tweedlee Dumb’ in the 2000 presidential race, he so eloquently stated that there isn’t much difference between the Democrats and Republicans, and said “why should people keep voting for “the lesser of two evils” when all they wind up with is more evil?
And there are still die-hard Democratic Party zealots making excuses for our ’so-called’ representatives in Congress. Should I continue?
So odd. All that the administration could ever hope to accomplish with this and other heavy-handed tactics, and so much more, could have been accomplished with a rational foreign policy post 9/11.
An interesting observation about the bill: it specifically states that terrorist motivation must be for political or social change, it makes no mention of planning or committing acts of violence with economic ends in mind. Is this not an amazing omission, given that economic beliefs determine more of modern human actions than almost any political or social beliefs, and in the end, isn’t it actions that count?
Pork or otherwise, the bill continues the theme of blurring the line between legitimate dissent and terrorism. It criminalizes the duties of citizenship, specifically the duty of the citizens to remove a government that is unresponsive to the people in order to protect liberty. It is a continuation of the threats aimed directly at the American people, with the objective of causing political, social, and economic changes which are advantageous the the wealthy and harmful to the poor. This is a very useful scare technique to keep the masses silent while their wealth, and the wealth of their children in the form of massive debt, and the wealth of their ecosystem is stolen from beneath their feet.
The funny thing is that I think it would be a great bill if it applied to the US government itself, and stopped its meddling with the heads of most Americans. The people are supposed to tell the government what to do, not the other way around. For my part, I’m frankly tired of seeing people so cowed. I wonder what ever happened to the home of the brave? It is a joke. Every time I hear the national anthem, I wince because I am acutely aware I live in a nation of petrified children and hysterical babies. I see very little courage, very little conviction, and massive government and corporate interference into anything that could even remotely be considered a resistance in the US, so it is not entirely mysterious. But it is not a surprise that TPTB would criminalize any efforts to restructure a completely rigged system. All bets are off when the house of cards collapses, however, and that day of reckoning is coming very close now. Since the main factor keeping the people cowed seems to be economic, once the economy collapses, there is much less left to lose, lots of free time, no monotonous and mind-numbing commute, no workday filled with meaningless tasks, and so the calculus changes. The government has very much helped create these conditions, and so it would not exactly be surprising if this backfired on them.
I think the more fascist and heavy-handed the government policies become, the weaker the government must be in reality, and the weaker their ability to manipulate the masses. With the 9/11 thing, I think they are really getting scared because a lot of credible folks are now over the “Shock and Awe” nature of the event and are now using scientific and engineering reasoning, and that has TPTB very scared indeed. They see the smokescreen is being blown away, and so it is time for more efforts at control and good diversions.
I don’t see this as pork, I see it as the authors suggest: an attempt to control thought, stifle dissent, and stoke irrational fears.
Here’s a better link to the H.R. 1955:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955
The Bill may actually go both ways. It specifically mentions “ideological” and “religious” acts of terrorism. So if the Judeo-Christian fundies (as well as the ostensible Islamlo-facists hiding under every rock) wish to bring some sort of self-fulfilling Armageddon to middle America, apparently they’re under scrutiny as well.
Though, sadly, SEC. 899F. Section c, provides a safeguard/auditing mechanism which is in the hands of the Heimat Sicherheitsdienst….ahem… I mean Homeland Security — not a disinterested third party, judicial branch, etc.
Truly disgusting. — and at one time such measures would have been regarded as absurb and a self-serving form of politcal grandstanding. But time has passed since the last wave of persecution and now that we suffer political and social, historic amnesia — it’s time to dunk witches, look for communists, round-up homosexuals and the usual suspects and publicly whip them, boil and shoot anyone different and feel safer because of all of it. Isn’t it all grand?
The best way to deal with these people is to stop consuming and voting. Let it become fashionable again to wear patched clothes, worn out shoes, and long hair. Withhold your excellence from the workplace, drive old cars, get rid of debt, learn to garden and save seeds. Ignore TV and movies and slow your life down to a pace that is more human. Reconnect with your family and neighbors and learn to share again. Take care of one another as in community. Do not provide services for politicians or those who own them. Enjoy life on a different scale until the morons sober up and fly right. I am well into my third year already and life gets better every year. Your going to get there sooner or later so you might as well do it voluntarily to save any shred of character you have remaining.
The United States has never been a democracy or a democratic republic. The Constitution was written by a bunch of rich, white property owners for their own benefit and the benefit of their own class interests. Entrenched, concentrated wealth has always trumped the best interests of the people. The result of continually acting as though we live in a democracy is a long string of failures. Only mass strikes and physical refusal to legitimate injustice has ever worked for the people. Regardless of the existence of this particular law, the ruling elite will employ every means at its disposal, including organized violence, to prevent an erosion of its economic standing. The ruling elite do not confine their actions to legalities; why should the people? It is a myth that we are a nation of laws.
#
ezeflyer November 19th, 2007 9:04 pm
“When they ask, will Common Dreams give them our email addresses?
Of course, but you will never know it, because they will get a National Security Letter with the order, so if they leak the information to anybody, they go to an undisclosed location, too, after having their assets confiscated. See how it works?
Ein Volk! Ein Fuehrer! Ein Vaterland! Seig Heil, Sieg Heil! Seig Heil!
So, these three Republicans, did they vote against it because it was not extreme enough ?
Because they wouldn’t be allowed to torture dissenters ?
“Extremist Belief System”
Judeo-Christian-Islamism?
Or plain old Americanism?
Bit by bit the organs fail, and
not with a bang but a whimper
our Republic has passed away.
@Tijuana November 19th, 2007 4:45 pm: “There is an extremely easy solution to this. DO NOT WATCH IT (fox news). Obviously, a huge number of people DO consider it to be news, witness the ratings. Since you are not one of them, do what I do, turn the damn TV off and get your news off multiple sources on the internet.”
Yep, that will surely stop you from being brainwashed, if thats what the problem was. The problem as I see it though, is different. Fox News, under Zionist Rupert Murdoch has succeeded in appointing George Bush as president and gotten us into two wars with more to come, and may well succeed in reducing a democracy down to fascism.
I think if it was for their own personal entertainment, nobody would
mind whatever Fox did. However, Rupert Murdoch (and fox) have an agenda,
and they have been getting their way. If not for disinformation and
propaganda from fox, we wouldn’t be where we are today.
Rupert Murdoch is Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels, reborn. (or might as well
be, if it happens he is not). Only in this incarnation, he was born a
Jew. He owns most major newspapers in Australia and much of the other
media there. He owns a good slice of the media in England, and of
course, he is most influential in the USA.
How happy I would be, if this was just about our own personal
entertainment. But the media is (was) the other pillar of our democracy.
If homegrown terrorism is the threatened use of force to coerce the people in the promotion of political or social objectives, and Ms. Harman’s legislation threatens the use of force to coerce the people in the promotion of the establishment’s political and social objectives, then the bill itself constitutes a shining example of homegrown terrorism – and establishes Ms. Harman as our very first homegrown terrorist under the new act.
Rupert Murdoch is just a pawn of a larger power base…an alien power base that continues to taunt Dennis Kucinich to keep him from advancing a progressive agenda….
www.xDem.org
counting and organizing small-d democrats who have left the party behind
Rep. Harman should take note: The largest radical terrorism organization and criminal crime syndicate in this world is the US Government, an odious entity that distorts the truth, mainipulates its people, and justifies its evil doings at home and abroad through propaganda with the cooperation of one of its partners in crime, the media. Apparently, this is ok with Rep. Harman.
Lets face it, the true targets of this, yet another piece of unconstitutional legislation rubber-stamped by these soon-to-be irrelevant congressional reps, are the whisteblowers, truthtellers, and truthseekers. The spreading of truthful information and an educated public are always dangerous to despotic totalitarian governments. The First Amendment and democracy, in general, run anathema to fascist plutocracies. If Congress truly cared about a “free” America rather than a “free” market, legislation such as this would be immediately quashed as ridiculous and dangerous to individual liberties.
Let’s not be naive. The US ceased pretending to be a democracy many years ago. Silencing dissent is one of its intended goals. So far, it’s working fairly well. People actually believe the drivel this government sells them because people know too much about kitschy, pop-culture nonsense and too little about reality and the actual intent of their own government. People magazine, after all, is the most popular and profitable periodical in the country. This is why the government, as confirmed by Karl Rove, easily creates our ‘reality.’ Adolf Hitler even openly admitted that people will always believe the “big lie.” He was right.
I would also like to mention, that with the small exception of strict liability laws (underage drinking, sex with a minor for example, both of which require simply an act) all crimes require a minimum of two elements: mens rea (guilty mind) and actus reas (guilty act). More simply, BOTH an intent AND an act, together, are the minimum legally required elements of a crime. Having only an intent, just thinking about a criminal act, is not a crime–until it’s combined with a criminal act in furtherance of the intent. Yet, like other rules of law that have been turned upside down in this Orwellian la-la land we live in today, I actually believe no one cares. As many have pointed out, our Bill of Rights has been unconstitutionally shredded with impunity. Congress yawns… In fact, I wonder, really, if any of our so-called representatives even understand the law, specifically the Constitution, which they took an oath to defend, yet instead treat with disdain when its tenets become inconvenient to their fascist, kleptocratic agendas.
Some people will constantly grasp at inconsequential straws to highlight their contempt for the Democratic Party.
Only Saint Ralph or some other imaginary quixotic candidate is perfect and has all the answers.
I am still waiting to hear some positive alternative suggestions and a winning strategy, from the dem naysayers, for taking back our country, which is now being held and controlled by republican fanatical fascists.
However, I am glad to see that the dem haters are supporting the Democratic Party loyalist Dennis Kucinich, I guess they trust his judgment only somewhat. Nevertheless, welcome to the club.
SEQUOIABISON - check out my website for one idea, but there are many more out there, and personally, i think DC is what is becoming irrelevant nowadays. There are greater forces (you know like “the whole planet’s surface”) that are rapidly “tiring” of humanity.
Our days are seriously numbered, if we do not soon get our act together. This seems obvious.
Anyhow, who gives a fug about democrats or republicans or “parties” for that matter - when basic survival is the key consideration in the US of A, DC won’t add up to a hill a beans because DC has become worthless.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Let me just add, you might say the “Peoples Proclamation” at the website is “pie in the sky”. I don’t really care if someone thinks this - others may disagree. I just put it out there for consideration.
The congress critters are so disconnected from People, and the system is so broke in so many ways. There will not be a “band-aid” fix for what we face.
Can things be “re-connected” - i sure hope so, and i will do my part especially as i embark upon my new business in 08.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Couple this legislation with cognitive neuroscientists attempts to image thoughts and you have the possible manifestation of Orwell’s and Huxley’s prophecies. If it is like “the Matrix”, then I won’t know and will be able to live with it. If I do know, then I wouldn’t want to live in society any longer. I’d try to find an empty cabin somewhere in British Columbia ala John Savage in “Brave New World”.
My soul cries everyday reading these and related stories..
I’m afraid for my future, and the future of my fellow humankind, but hey, cornered animals (human or othewise)are the most dangerous. They’re backing us all into a corner, and eventually we will have no other choice but to strike back against the Empire.
I have the seed of an idea,
that might bring the masses
back into some real contact
with current events (aka news).
It’s a web based grass roots lotto, funding provided by those who contribute both ideas, to run like adds do on most web sites.
Bring the fiscal reward motivation, sprinkle in lots of feel good support, and whamo hit’em with both barrels of truth and peace.
Of course, any perceived threat to the edificial war and profit machinery would hardly be ignored, but wouldn’t the possibility of both being better prepared for NWO and prospect for “free money” appeal to many?
What do contributers think?
Namaste
P.S. the “news” on the comedy chan has tended to be substantially better, and their payoff is laughs, we could use that too. New political cartoons lambasting caricatures of the caricatures we have as leaders?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEQOvyGbBtY
Ms. Harmen would be loved by the late Senator Joseph McCarthy. (I for one am glad he’s dead!) She is a traitor to the US Constitution and the Bill Of Rights this Nation was built on. These bottom feeders we call Congressmen will never impeach the criminals in the White House because they are criminals and traitors just like Bush and his gang of henchmen. Question? Shouldn’t this law apply to the PIGS mentioned above? Not with a Supreme Court packed with right wing, fascist hacks! The revolution has come and Democracy has lost. Get used to it unless you are willing to put your life on the line in the streets. I, for one, don’t see this as a possability. Amerikins have it too easy for them to do this. This law is ment to head you off at the pass. I was tear gassed in Harvard Square, a hot bed of radical activisim, in the late 60’s and early 70’s during marches for Civil Rights and anti-Vietman war protests. Riots got the attention of the propaganda press not demonstrations! When citizens get hungry enough they will riot. Until that happens things will get worse. So get used to more and more repression in the United States of Amerikkka. By the time the “people” rise up I’ll be too old or long gone. Good luck!
Sing! What will you do when we let you go home?
And the plastic’s all melted the so is the chrome?
Who are the brain police?
What will you do if the label comes off?
and the plastic’s all mented and the chrome is too soft?
Who are the brain police?
What will you do if the people you knew
were the plastic that melted and the Chromium too.
Who are the brain police???? (FZ)
This is still true today 40 years later. WTF?
Some say 9/11 changed America. No, it did not. It merely exposed the true nature of the beast. For decades the US screwed up other countries and nations, either directly, or through installing dictators trained at the Schools of the Americas.
Now that the fascist government has been exposed to its own people, it is worried and sacred, and it’s going for the jugular. But Ms Harman’s bill is a mistake. It may give the appearance of false security to the power hacks, but it will turn the US cities into West Bank and Gaza strip.
There are many things people can do to counteract the Big Brother. For one, come election time, we should vote out all those so-called representatives who voted for the bill, which means virtually all of them.
Common Dreams may also use all its posters who do not want to get nabbed. In fact, editors and those in charge of such sites may be the first in line to feel the sting.
Those who fail to fight for their liberty and freedom deserve to be slaves. Welcome to Amerikkka.
P.S. I have aa feeling that this Ms Harman has someting in common with Joe Lieberman. Please research and let’s know.
Twister22 - Great link about “illegalities”…thanks.
If you look at most of the major terror events in this country you will find out it is done by out of control groups within our own government. 9/11 was clearly an inside job, if you take a close look at the Oklahoma bombing you will see government involvement. Also many foreign terror events end up showing secret agency involvement.
They do the terror and then use it as an excuse to take away our rights. Some of our congress people are well meaning but stupid, being easily manipulated by the more sinister ones.
Congress never seems to make any progress going in the right direction but when it comes to taking away our rights their a juggernaut.
“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable”, JFK
Great idea nspire. But it’s hard to get liberals together. If we congealed, we’d be the ruling conservatives.
no need for “congealment”, but “we” could probably start working together and helping out each other much more “efficiently”…..don’t you think?
CORRECTION: I meant to type: Common Dreams may also lose…NOT …use.
Wouldn’t that be a “flagship” issue of our common dreams, to somehow coordinate other ideas of how to bring us together effectively?
Hey Ken, glad you liked… I thought it was brilliant.
Disclaimer: I take no responsibilty for anyone who mistakes sarcasm for an actual call to off the President. However, if a person actually did such a thing, I’m not sure many people would be crying about it, not even Dick Cheney.. maybe only Jeff Gannon, but that’s about it.
pzbrawl, well said.
For some reason with the line “The proposed commission is a menace through its power to hold hearings, take testimony and administer oaths, an authority granted to even individual members of the commission - little Joe McCarthys - who will tour the country to hold their own private hearings. An aura of authority will automatically accompany this congressionally authorized mandate to expose native terrorism” I see Dolores Umbridge as the Grand Inquisitor at Hogwarts!!
Where is Dumbledore’s Army, the Gryffindors and the Weasley twins to show her great defiance and subversion??
I’m all for creating a real-life “Dumbledore’s Army” AKA The Anti-Dirty-Tricks Brigade.
RichM, thanks for the definitions of “terrorism.” This is a critical subject to understand.
“Terrorism” is a propaganda term. So is “terrorist”. Yet there are and should be legal prohibitions against acts such as the bombings in Oklahoma City, 9/11, and also the many bombings in the “shock and awe” state terrorist acts of the US government, ongoing as they are.
Some of the US definitions exclude states from being able to commit terrorist acts.
Take the CIA definition:
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/cia-the-war-on-terrorism/terrorism-faqs.html
“Q: How do you define terrorism?
A: The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):
• The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.
• The term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.
• The term “terrorist group” means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.”
Notice the non-state qualifier “subnational groups” a term that makes the definition propaganda. Why? Because the definition prevents the label “terrorism” or “terrorist acts” from being applied to the “greatest purveyor of violence” which is, as Dr. King noted in 1967, the “US government.”
The CIA definition is completely bogus.
But there is a good, decent definition that takes into account these propaganda and lawless formulations.
Secretary General Kofi Annan and his lawyers drafted a good working definition:
The report of the Secretary-General’s High-level Panel on Threats, Challenges, and Change included a working definition of terrorism as:
“any action, in addition to actions already specified by the existing conventions on aspects of terrorism, the Geneva Conventions and Security Council Resolution 1566 (2004), that is intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a Government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.”
www.stanleyfoundation.org/publications/report/UNND807.pdf
With this definition, its application can be to a subnational group or a government. That’s because intentions and purposes are able to be determined “by its nature or context.” So US bombing of a building in a civilian area to kill a sniper with a 2000 pound bomb by its nature is a terrorist act, for it will likely “cause death or serious bodily harm” to civilians for the purpose of imposing an illegal, immoral occupation–surely an attempt to intimidate a population into submission: Iraqis who resist the occupation and its puppet government.
As for forms of violence that do not “cause death or serious bodily harm” such as non-violent protest and or sabotage against property, according to Annan’s definition, these are not terrorist acts. They *may* be, in fact, legitimate resistance. For the UNGA in 1987, defined legitimate resistance as:
“14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support”
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/42/a42r159.htm
On the right to resist tyrannical government, with acts that are not terrorist acts, the Declaration of Independence is clear.
“. . . governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.”
So was Lincoln when he said in his first inaugural address in 1861:
“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.”
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/lincoln1.htm
So, regardless of what the bill which will pass both houses of Congress says, progressives need to know that we can legally exercise our rights as defined by the Declaration, by Lincoln in his first inaugural, and by the UN and international humanitarian law. Terrorist acts according the the UN working definition are always crimes. But legitimate resistance is also our right. Being clear about the differences between the two is crucial.
I remember, many years ago, I was working at an air force base. In the security office there was a bulletin board on which, amongst other things had the weekly “Notes From the Director,” a bulletin from J. Edgar Hoover’s office.
One of them was on “How to detect a Communist.” You can tell a Communist by how they dress, if the men wear long hair, mixed racial couples, people who use words like “peace,” “love,” “coexistence,” speak in favor of the UN, quote the Constitution or Bill of Rights, say they are against war.
Ah, yes, these were the ways the local cops were to detect communists amongst us in the late ’50’s.
I wonder what the bulletins say now about how to detect an “Islamofascist terrorist.” The mind boggles, but it probably describes about seventy or eighty percent of us. People that talk about civil rights, the Constitution, people who speak against torture, people who advocate the return of habeas corpus to the legal system, have dark skin, wear head scarves, have written or spoken critically of government policies, foreign or domestic. I could go on, but hate to make long posts of the obvious. Just be ready to take your soap and enter the showers when told to do so.
Ken said:
“no need for “congealment”, but “we” could probably start working together and helping out each other much more “efficiently”…..don’t you think?”
Okay. Let’s do something.
libertas said:
“One of them was on “How to detect a Communist.” You can tell a Communist by how they dress, if the men wear long hair, mixed racial couples, people who use words like “peace,” “love,” “coexistence,” speak in favor of the UN, quote the Constitution or Bill of Rights, say they are against war.”
Hoover was a cross-dresser who also persecuted pot smokers and users of enthogens with his COINTELPRO because he thought it radicalized them. He had poop on everybody in government, so they were afraid of him. When GHWBush became his CIA counterpart, he could have arrested Dubya for Cocaine use.
The recent hearing WAS merely geared towards forming a commission to study the “problem”. The real problem is that nasty little Power Point presentation by Mark Weitzman. Weitzman shows 911 Truth sites alongside those of celebrate the fall of the towers and alongside those that teach terrorist training including hand to hand combat and the making of suicide bombs. The implications of such disingenuous propaganda are obvious.
It can be noted that Mark Weitzman works for the same Simon Weisenthal Center which decided to build a “Museum of Tolerance” on a 1,000 year old arab cemetary - yeah, that will help promote tolerance.
Wearechangeseattle.org (of which I am a member) is planning to send a letter to congressman Dave Reichert (who attended the hearing) requesting a meeting so we can voice our concerns and educate him to the fact that thousands of civil engineers, first responders, 911 victim family members, intelligence professionals, physicists and many other credible people from all walks of life have plenty of reason to believe that 911 was an inside job and that we would like to see the likely perpetrators identified and tried for their crimes. As a former King County Sheriff we hope that Congressman Reickert will appreciate this position as a desire for the rule of law rather than extremism.
At the recent FCC hearing in Seattle Congressman Reichert gave his testimony pre-recorded on video. He was roundly booed when he first appeared on the screen (the crowed was overwhelmingly liberal and Reichert is a republican) but was soon being cheered as he weighed in against more media conglomeration - so there is some hope he could be swayed towards reason.
Wow, what a bunch of pessimistic skeptics. The children of Congress have passed an excellent bill. 404 votes! This has got to be true blue.
This beautiful proposed new law only applies to 535 members of Congress, a real ethical venture, and several hundred top administration appointees, including the 9 wise SUPREMES (justices?). AND the brilliant national media moguls, who produce such fine infotainment. This is MY interpretation (a self-appointed genius). This bill could never apply to US?!??
In the Spring of 1692, in Salem, MA. Hundreds were accused of witchcraft, nineteen folks were hung, one crushed to death because he was a non-conformer, and could not be tortured into confessing.
The folks above me on this list better be millionaires because you all need good lawyers.
The thought police, AKA the Federal Bureau of Investigation will be knocking on your front door soon. Without search warrants. You know that police states require no paperwork. And EFFICIENCY requires swift paperless processing of TREASON. You, PEACENIKS, may all be dangling from ropes someday, the masses can take a day off from shopping, pack lunches. The ratings will surpass the SUPERBOWL.
I’m not a lawyer, and I can’t help you. I advice you to conform, the mainstream, the silent-majority Supports BU$HCO’s OIL WAR. Don’t you dreamers realize we are fighting for nearly 30 Trillion in IRAQI oil resources for 30 years. The contracts have always been issued to their new DEMOCRATICALLY elected government. Our oil companies will earn billions. I work for Blackwater, Inc. I know.
Even this list of radical extremists must be incorporated into this vision of perfection. Harman for president! Her work is not an ORWELLIAN MASTERPIECE. WE ARE MERELY PERFECTING THE FUTURE. Signed: A happily assimilated rethuglican Borg. Motto: A 100 years war means 100 years of profits! I support George Bush, (a better president than James Buchanan)!
Wow, what a bunch of pessimistic skeptics. The children of Congress have passed an excellent bill. 404 votes! This has got to be true blue.
This beautiful proposed new law only applies to 535 members of Congress, a real ethical venture, and several hundred top administration appointees, including the 9 wise SUPREMES (justices?). AND the brilliant national media moguls, who produce such fine infotainment. This is MY interpretation (a self-appointed genius). This bill could never apply to US?!??
In the Spring of 1692, in Salem, MA. Hundreds were accused of witchcraft, nineteen folks were hung, one crushed to death because he was a non-conformer, and could not be tortured into confessing.
The folks above me on this list better be millionaires because you all need good lawyers.
The thought police, AKA the Federal Bureau of Investigation will be knocking on your front door soon. Without search warrants. You know police states require no paperwork. And EFFICIENCY requires swift paperless processing of TREASON. You, PEACENIKS, may all be dangling from ropes someday, the masses can take a day off from