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Occupy Wall Street Movement is Twice as Popular as the Tea Party: Time Poll
In the protest movement popularity contest, Occupy Wall Street is whooping the Tea Party.
The Occupy Wall Street movement, right, is more popular than the Tea Party, according to a poll released Thursday. (Justin Sullivan/Getty; Kevin Hagen for News)
The demonstrations against big banks has a 54% favorability rating compared to the conservative group's 27%, according to a new Time magazine poll.
A sizable number - 23% - said they didn't know enough about the Wall St. protesters to make a decision.
In contrast, 23% said they had a negative opinion of Occupy Wall Street compared to 65% who said the Tea Party's influence has been negative or negligible.
The new numbers come as Mayor Michael Bloomberg ordered demonstrations - who have been stationed at Zuccotti Park for the past three weeks - to temporarily vacate on Friday so the area can be cleaned.
Since the protests against big banks began in cities around the country weeks ago, many pundits and commentators have drawn comparisons between the two movements.
They argue both are grassroots initiatives fueled by anti-establishment anger - the difference being that Tea Partiers focus their antipathy on the government, and the Occupiers on big banks.
The Tea Party Patriots, the nation's largest Tea Party organization, blasted the comparison earlier this week.
Tea Partiers are "not lawbreakers, they don't hate the police, they don't even litter. A quick glance at the TV reveals the sharp contrast posed by the Wall St. occupiers," the group said in a statement.
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63 Comments so far
Show AllBloomberg is going to get people hurt
Tea partiers only break laws that were decriminalized by the gun industry and the politicians they own, so I guess they aren't lawbreakers, eh ?
The difference though is that the TeaParty wants to do NOTHING or move to the right. The Occupy movement wants to do SOMETHING. That is a big advantage to the TeaParty as, since they are in congress, they can stonewall and not propose anything to advance their goals. The Occupy movement doesn't have elected support in congress and they would have to get a LOT of support there to move their agenda forward. The comparison, while interesting, doesn't indicate power to effect an action.
The TeaParty is only a party, and a faux one at that. The Occupy movement is not a party, but a revolution which will in time sweep away all that stands in opposition to its momentum.
"They argue both are grassroots initiatives fueled by anti-establishment anger - the difference being that Tea Partiers focus their antipathy on the government, and the Occupiers on big banks."
Bullshit. The Tea Party loves government -- just so long as it doesn't help people. If they hate government so much why does every Tea Partier carry around a giant American Flag? Grass-roots? Try AstroTurf.
Meanwhile, the majority of OWS activists seem to recognize the symbiotic relationship between corporations and the state. It is not simply about "Big Banks", though the banks are the main focus of the occupations for obvious reasons.
Durrutix, I agree, except for one minor quibble. You say the Tea Party "loves government -- just so long as it doesn't help people." I think it's more that they love government as long as it helps people like themselves, but not people like the OWSers. It's a very selfish group, in sharp contrast to the OWSers.
Agreed. The funniest thing to come out of the Tea Party was when 70% of their members suddenly panicked and yelled "No wait!!! Don't take away our Medicare!!!" after voting in all the baffoons who immediately focused on taking away their Medicare. The Tea Party is like every other special interest group: Save OUR precious all-important spending, but take away THEIR "wasteful" spending.
The tea party voted for Oblahblah and John Kerry. .... Who knew?
I think this is a very important key to the Occupiers' success.
They and their growing (and still forming) movement are really the definition of unselfish.
From the General Assembly to the People's Mic, right down to the "leaderless" (read: EVERYONE leads) organization of the thing.
There's a magic somewhere in there that is attracting people. And I think the GENUINE unselfishness of the groups is a road sign to the magic.
It seems to me that it is simpler than that. The tea partiers just like to feel good about being white Americans. They have a very simple, jingoistic worldview where they are the real Americans and everyone else is ruining the country (so they need to "take it back"). What they call "socialism" is just veiled racism I think. They want health insurance for themselves, but they'll be damned if they are going to help some black guy or worse yet, an "illegal" have some basic health care. Their views are not thought through in any real sense, it's more of a feeling they have. There is really no comparison to the OWS movement, which has very clear understandings of what the problems are facing the country.
DC-CPH very well said it seems to me that many of these tea party types are like the KKK without the robes. They are afraid of anyone who does not look and think like them, obviously I am using the word think rather loosely here. They can't grasp the concept that just because someone is different it does not make make them a bad person just different. Meanwhile OWS attracts people from all walks of life. OWS represents the real America.
don't we know the Koch brothers, among others, funded the Tea Party?
hardly grassroots, the Kochs...
the two movements are more alike than not...I will not be the least bit surprised to discover like entities funding the Occupy movement...
neither challenges the notion that owning property is correct, nor that destructive industrial acts are acceptable in light of the requirement to generate money to pay for such ownership...
neither challenges our energy use, nor the industrial acts supporting, nor the blatant fraudulence of the governmental structures they would beseech...
we are in a crisis of authority...
both of these movements encourage the individual to continue to delgate their authority to others...
the movement that is needed will be the one in which the individual takes up their own inherent authority, again...
Your characterization of OWS is false. Your suggestion that OWS is funded by "funding entities like" the Koch brothers is absurd.
Your comments in the past have been paranoid and extremist; so it's not surprising to find you sniping at OWS.
Time has already buried this under a report about how Oblahblah would beat any of his Rethug challengers . . . even though his 3% lead over Mittens is within the margin of error. And when one considers that the sample consisted of only 83% likely voters, it could be a dead heat.
Romney will never make it into the White House criticizing Obamacare which is refried Massachusetts Romneycare.
Never underestimate an American voter's ability to choose ignorance and delusion. Especially when Oblahblah makes it easy.
corvo, you said a mouth full when you said voter ignorance. That's why we have a do nothing Congress iin Washington.
This very poll seems to contradict you, corvo.
The questions asking if respondents agree with the Occupiers' positions all hit at 68% YES or above (up to 86% YES). Yet the question asking if respondents think what effect this action that they support strongly for goals they support overwhelmingly clocks in at 56% for "little impact" on "American politics today".
To me, this indicates fear and failure-induced apathy and fatalism drawn from powerlessness, not ignorance or delusion.
This poll shows that some surprisingly large proportion of "ordinary Americans" may be like so many Guantanamo victims -clinging desperately, hopelessly, but still yet successfully to their self-determination, to their resistance to control, to their humanity.
The greatest -I say again- THE GREATEST, power of the Occupation movement is simply in its providing a place for people who are fed up and seeking a better way to come together, to meet, to see that they are many, that they are not anything like alone, that they are strong.
That THEY,... are the 99%. ;)
You have a poll saying how people might vote; we all have the results of countless elections. The brave folks in the OWS movement have the odds massively stacked against them.
Do you think that using terms such as "Oblahblah," "Rethug," and "Mittens" adds to the strength of your argument? Why would anyone listen to someone who tries to hide the weakness of their position behind glib word play?
Not everyone needs to take themselves so seriously. What's wrong with a little wordplay and humor?
Who shot Gabrielle Giffords and killed 9 year old Christina Taylor Green, a child born on Sept 11, 2001 after Sarah Palin put a cross-hairs target on Gabrielle Giffords picture?
Who has allowed terrorist weapons used to shoot Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others
to be distributed resulting in multiple terror rampages across the USA?
Who allowed Jared Loughner, the assassin of the 9 year old girl Christina Taylor Green, access to a terrorist weapon and ammunition despite his history of mental problems?
The Tea Party has a lot to answer for, including numerous attempts to bring
weapons into other political events.
As I understand it, the OWS ers actually have a sanitation committee for cleanup and recycling.
If the cleanup crew operates anything like the Clearwater Festival started by Pete Seeger for which I volunteered a few years, the place will be cleaner and
more recycling will be done than it was before OWS entered the Park...
The Tea Party not a party is made up of pigs.
The occupy movement is made up of intellectuals and students and workers and veterans, among others. The Tea not a party Party is funded to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars just from the Koch brothers. The Occupy movement is a spontaneous grass roots movement.
" the difference being that Tea Partiers focus their antipathy on the government, and the Occupiers on big banks."
big banks are the government.
Most tea partiers, when interviewed, expressed much concern for cutting spending on government's domestic programs, while not expressing much if any knowledge of how banks and other corporations fit in to the picture.
Is this what it's all come back to? All those people out in the cold, trying to effect change. and we get a headline at Common Dreams that still just has to talk about us versus them. Oh, we're just so much better than that crazy old Tea Party. Feel better now? What a depressing situation.
"say, would you like some of my purple berries?"
Wooden ships on the water ...
Who won?
I didn't need them, and left.
probably kept me alive.
Take heart oh lefttown. There are many OWS articles on CD about us. It's easy to find another. If you hit the streets on occasion it's much less depressing too. Perhaps you're unable to do so? There are many many ways you can participate besides sleeping on the street. There is a very REAL us vs. them going on right now as you read this blurb. Snap out of it.
to lefttown.
I fully agree, lefttown its just a moment of confusion, don't leave town.
IF CONSCIOUNESS COULD SPEAK IT WOULD SAY, I'VE WAITED FOR THIS MOMENT 99 YEARS DON'T LET ME DOWN (self included).I must admit this article is not the best thing, we're not GLADIATORS fighting other slaves at best we are between warriors & seeckers a new breed for whom we must find a word, a lot of words will come to life through this experiment let us aim for a better & just world.
The tea party is the corporate party its a lot smaller than people think but with it has humans many will wake up.
We must make grounds for that,you right, we must not HERD THEM OR HERD OURSELVES TO THE CORPORATE ARENA OR THEIR ABATOIRES FOR THAT MATTER.
Take Care
PS: they can't stop it they can change its paste, rythem, frequency, intencity, its like a yoyo it'll come back faster & faster unless they FACE IT. UNLESS WE FACE IT.
Just truth
The 'Occupy Wall $treet' movement emanates from the hearts of the people on Main Street. The Tea KKKlaner crowd is a creature of the KKKoch brothers and other corp-rat players. Tea KKKlaners are cows that cheer the butchers that would cut their throats. The 'Occupy Wall $treet' folks are erstwhile 'sheep'... finally awakened by the howls of $ociopathic wolves. I call for general $trikes, open rebellion and selective guerrilla warfare against the Amerikan ruling class. Think IRA.
Reaction to the headline and poll numbers...
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
Take that suckers!
*sigh*
Really, we all should have known it all along.
This poll needs to go viral like the Black Death. ;)
These numbers need to be blasted deep into the clouded minds of every single Corporatist Media Addict in this country and the world!
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
The history of revolutions shows that when the critical mass of people believe this is the Revolution, than this is the Revolution.
Whatever this is, its Something.
Occupy Wall Street must maintain distance from the Democratic party lest they become co-opted like the Tea Baggers. If OWS becomes co-opted, then their positive poll numbers will circle the drain as well. One hopeful sign though: at the same time of development, the Tea Baggers had already been co-opted by the likes of Dick Armey, Sal Russo, and were taking Koch brothers $$$.
One big difference is the Tea Party has managed to get a strangle hold on elected Republicans, while OWS has no such connection to elected officials of any party. That's probably because the OWSers don't see the electoral process as offering real hope for change. That's where I disagree with them. The problem isn't our democracy in itself; it's the way our democracy has been taken over and misused by rich oligarchs.
I think that the Occupiers and many, many other people have largely given up on the current US Empire electoral process and Liberal Democratic concepts in general because they have forgotten -been helped to forget, been bombarded with bombs of forgetfulness since they were schoolchildren- the Powers -of both the People and the Legislatures of the States- to call a Constitutional Convention and turn the Revolution a second crank.
They need to look South, to Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador.
Not for blueprints or ideology, but for inspiration!. ;)
Don't get to carried away. What do you expect from Time magazine? Wasn't it sold for...like, $1?. Its as useless as tits on a boar hog.
Popularity doesn't transcend into anything. (Just ask Al Gore.) The TP has some distinctive wins under its belt and has had major effect on several elections, while the OWS has done zilch. It hasn't effected the redirection one single Wall Street or Washington dollar –or vote. Know this: Disparage the TP all you want, it might prove to be good for a few laughs, but dividing yourself from the mainstream citizen out there won't make the OWS as strong and effective as it could be. (But that's what the Liberal Media wants: Division.
Wish it could transcend into a new political party. Possibly having Nader as its first presidential candidate. That's about the best thing that can happen out of all this. Obama is toast. He's a lame duck. His candidacy – frozen. He will be rolled. Doesn't leave the OWS much of any political choice.
Whatever, one thing is clear, they'd better stop all the giddiness, taking cute pictures of each other, playing with their laptops and get moving. The world is waiting.
With that said, I'm still pulling for 'em – at least until it becomes clear that they've been co-opted by the democrats or shuffle home as failures.
I think you might want to actually follow the links and read the poll questions and responses, moonpie.
Your "mainstream citizen" seems to think rather poorly of the "Tea Party", and think rather highly of the Occupiers.
More importantly, they seem to overwhelmingly agree with the Occupiers' Grievances.
Moonpie, you make me laugh. If I didn't know without a doubt you were talking about the latest fantasy novel you just read I'd have to give you a good old fashion horsewhipping. Ya know, a fantasy horsewhipping fashioned from the mind. But since you mentioned it, I have a bucket full of crap right here as a matter of fact that needs "pulling". When will you be down? Come on, you'll be able to say you've done somthing in your life. Done zilch? It's as if the OWS has nothing but spoons and is presented with Mt. Everest to level and after but a few short weeks moonpie comes along critisizing how nothing visible has been moved. Or moving? After a year, I could see it. But it's nothing near a year. You've revealed who you are. Oh, I forgot, Civil Rights was won in three weeks. Thats right, and the Viet Nam war was ended in just five weeks, and and It's exactly people like you that claim victory either way thing go. You've done zilch but I support you. Thats OK. we welcome you anyway.
I'm sorry, the "Tea Party"? Who are they? OH YA, I forgot! That's the old name of the Corporate Party.
I remember a fledgling group called the "Tea Party" that objected to the size of the deficit. Then Dick Army got ahold of them, brought in FoxNews for tons of free promotion, and then US Chamber of Commerce and Koch Brothers funding via various neocon propaganda tanks. From there, the corporate overlords started controlling who appeared at Tea Party events, what Tea Party events were held, etc, etc, etc.
That's how you subvert a movement. You "take care of things" for them. And the final result that proves this? A collection of "Tea Party" representatives in Congress that VOTED in favor of protecting big corporation tax loopholes rather than reducing the deficit by $4T. Actions speak louder than words. The fledgling Tea Party was opposed to the deficit, but the final manipulated Tea Party placed a higher priority on protecting big corporations than it did on cutting the deficit.
Thus there is no longer a "Tea Party". It is now the "Corporation Party".
This is just another attempt to politicize the movement by implying it's a political movement instead of the SOCIAL movement that it is. SOCIAL movements are inclusive and far more effective in achieving transformative results that are politics, or hasn't the author noticed?
Today's young people have no taste for fighting their fathers losing battles using their fathers outdated techniques. Common Dreams needs to stop acting like an arm of the Democratic Party and begin objectively reporting on the OWS movement.
Stone,
Well put. I heartily agree.
Follow the links.
The poll demonstrates what you are saying.
Who cares about CD?
Well, I, for one, care about CD. This is where I hang out, despite the fact that too many Democrat apologists get a megaphone here. I often learn more from some of the commenters (sp?)--Obedient Servant, raydelcamino, old goat, Bill from Saginaw, Visiting Professor, Kay Johnson, so many others come to mind--than from the articles themselves. This is a wonderful site, and the editors will grow and learn like the rest of us are doing. There won't be a lot of money going from me to CD, but there'll be some. We should support the people who truly serve us.
Uh... what?
I was just reminding Stone that the headlines and stories here are not what is actually happening in the world.
And you never learn anything from my comments? I'm very hurt. ;(
But thanks for talking to me like I haven't been here for years and years. My profile tells me its been "3 years 7 weeks" but that's only 'cause I got "mysteriously unable to log on" for a time in the Green Ban of late 2008.
Pretty sure I got a couple more years under my belt than that. And all under my same -actual- name. Also pretty sure I got all of the folks you mention either matched or beat on that score as well.
But thanks again, I love when the newbs don't know who I am. It wonderfully demonstrates the flaws in this forum AND gives me a chance to have the same arguments and make the same explanations over and over again. ;)
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The only parallels between OWS and the Tea Party are meaningless.
They are both portrayed (even if the "Tea Party" no longer is) as popular revolts against the system.
That's not meaningless. ;)
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"Portrayed" by who, the corporate, mainstream media? The tea party never was a "popular revolt against the system". It's always been about right/libertarian big money disguising their agenda by exploiting a relatively narrow slice of the dispossessed right/libertarian middle class to give the appearance of an organic popular movement. Not surprisingly they ended up having some influence on the established political process, and were even given co-sponsor status with CNN for a recent presidential debate. So I repeat, any parallels draw between the Tea Party and OWS are essentially meaningless.
The Tea Party is not grassroots, it's Koch, Armey, Faux Noise, and abettors.
OWS is real grassroots. Truth always wins over lies.