Joe the loser, sorry the plumber saga shows how low our standards have become. Years ago we would have hidden this creature, today he is on the front page of newspapers. He is an insult to plumbers and more, I will not go there. I really feel bad for his kid.
I am starting to believe that there is a relationship between shaved heads and ignorance, maybe intelligence is in the hair and not the brain !!! Scientists should look into this phenomenon.
I heard that he was for the Irak war, what is he doing here at 34? he should be there fixing latrines. I am disgusted, please tell me he is not real.

To those of you still defending "Joe the Plumber", dig this:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/mccain-calls-joe-the-plumber-invites-him-on-the-trail/

If you're a Mccain support, don't bother reading the article.

gee, we all thought you'd gone back to work. at least that's what you wrote, telling us you "got to get back to work..." actually, you might want to re-read - now that it's probably time for your afternoon break - what i said about parenting. nowhere do i say "disrespectful and disgraceful" comments about your daughter. one can only hope, however, that she's got more brain than you. or at least has the ability to exercise said gray matter.

actually, one's words help to define "stupid." to that i would add one's ability, or lack thereof, to respond in an intelligent manner. much like joe the plumber. and real world.

ah, bligh4, you digress. glad you've gone back to work. at least you'll have an earful when you re-emerge. no one in this entire session "seem to equate formal education with intelligence". what does ranching have to do with real world's idiotic comments? if you come from ranching, then you know that many of those ranchers were/are loaded with common sense. yet, real world even lacks that. if you want to defend morons, you have that right. but if a dumb ass jack off plumber wants to discuss politics with a national candidate, he better damn well prepare himself for his 15 minutes of fame. if all that the repulsicans can offer is i'm-almost-ready-to-blow-a-fuse mcsame, pep rally palin, joe six pack, joe the plumber, and real world, then you can bet your sweet dumb ass i'm going to have plenty to say about it. just brace yourself.

and it's not that the educated elite "should have veto rights over the uneducated", as you seem to think the "educated elite" think, it's just that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. or breed. or post comments here, unless they want a free education.

p.s. if you have no control over what comes out of your daughter's mouth, perhaps a course in parenting is in order. like so many people who breed for the benefit of tax deductions, they forget, or don't know about responsibility.

Folks, these so called debates are just asinine and Joe the plumber just proves it! What we have is one corporate soldier interviewing 2 other corporate soldiers that both belong to the big, business party. Why! I ask you? Nothing about the egregious,treason of Bush and Cheney; nothing about the recent bailout of stealing from the poor and giving to the rich; nothing about the nefarious reasons for the killing of our brave and patriotic soldiers, not to mention about a million Iraqi's; nothing about the perdition of our constitution. And I could go on and on and on. No,Joe the red herring, plumber is much more important and just shows what is meant by the whore media. Vote third party.

What Joe The Plumber said was: "I want to be Donald Trump or Rupert Murdoch or Bill Gates or Jack Abramoff", even though he has neither the drive, knowledge, ability nor the connections to be that powerful or make that kind of money. It will never happen. So, just to be JTP and not be ripped off by the various corrupt and Category 5 powerhouses who wear him like a shoe isn't good enough. Those're Americans for you. You can dispossess them of everything and they'll still spout this drivel and lie naked on the floor of the poorhouse reading their copy of "The Secret".

What is it with deadbeats like 'Joe the Plummer'????? Their fuzzy math leaves a lot to be desired. They don't want to have their taxes raised! How do they think the Federal Government is going to pay it's bills if they don't kick in their fair share???? The Government, State, country or Federal isn't a business where they make money for services rendered. The only way they can operate is if we pay our taxes. They don't want the 'wealth to be distributed'???? Maybe they are happy the way things are! But, I want my fair share of the wealth. I am personally fed up with paying some rich deadbeats taxes for him. So he can have another yacht and diddle his workers out of a decent wage to pay their mortgage! I am reminded once more why I quit voting Republican 20 years ago. They are some of the greediest SOB's on the planet. And ignorance is alive and well in the form of 'Joe the Plummer' who really isn't a plummer.

Wasn't he also Joe Sixpack?

If Joe and others like him made more money, wealth would, in fact, be redistributed. The fact that middle-class or poor people argue against wealth redistribution is a triumph for conservative propaganda.

Johnny J-Rock

Carol

This "Joe" reminds me of the "Joe" that came to my home and claimed to do everything and left my home looking like a baby did the job. He was just a handy man and could do nothing but he pretended he could do everything. We found out the very hard way that he didn't have a licence but we were believers. He had the b---- to come on TV and speak to Obama and lied about everything I guess it takes a lier to speak to another lier. I am telling you if this "Joe" can make anybody believe him what do think Obama is doing?

Please everyone get educated about Obama before we put our entire nation in his hands before it is too late PLEASE!!!

Please see my new Youtube video- "Leave Joe Plumber Alone !!"....

Did anyone catch the daily show last night ? This discussion in light of the segment on "Joe" is just making me laugh. http://www.thedailyshow.com/index.jhtml

"That'll teach you to unwhittingly come to our attention....."

I wonder what kind of work Joe the plumber does. I hope he doesn't work connecting to public (or private) water systems or sewage systems.

For example, there is only 2 approved ways to attach to city water to stop siphoning of waste water into the drinking water (that I know of - see a licensed plumber or engineer). This is why your toilets, sinks and faucets are designed and installed in very specific ways. In a paper mill where I was working the water supply was nearly connected directly to a chemical application system by chemical company men and unqualified people. Fortunately, trained people saw the work and stopped it but only by getting a plant engineer whose license would be at stake for allowing a system like this to be installed.

The electrical part of this was good because they called a qualified electrician. They were afraid of their ignorance in electricity, but any idiot can put pipes together (they thought).

A little known factoid for the Kucinich supporters here that no one has covered yet.

Joe the Plumber was originally a member of the Natural Law Party (1992?) and their candidate, world reknown Physicist John Hagelin.

Dennis got his idea for the Dept. of Peace from Mr. Hagelin, now President of the U.S. Peace Government.

Unfortunately the Natural Law Party, which was based of the deepest understanding of Quantum Mechanics, Natural Law and the Vedic Sciences no longer exists.

Mr. Hagelin's idea were about 500 years into the future and very few understood him.

When Mr. Hagelin's Natural Law party went defunct he threw his support to Kucinich's campaign.

tamarque,

perhaps we've been disrespectful to the unreal real world re: his/her lack of education. but just as joe the plumber is getting his 15 minutes of fame just by opening his big mouth to his uneducated brain, so too has real world received his/hers. had real world used the phrase "the chosen one" in reference to the current moron in the white house, i doubt that any of us here would be in disagreement. his/her reference to obama got this ball game rolling.

you use catchalls such as "poor schnooks", "a sorry lot", "military thugs", "a sad person". really, if one deletes your wordiness and sugar coating, where lies the difference?

other than that, your analysis of the race situation is right on. and palin should indeed have her sorry uneducated white ass thrown in jail.

This guy is all messed up. His real name is Samuel. And he is now in deep shit as he's confessed to working illegally--gotta have a license dude! Can't even pay the taxes you currently owe, but wouldn't mind paying more under McCain's plan? I wager Samuel moves out of Ohio before Thanksgiving.

tamarque and Sandpoint nailed it.

We the people have been trained to watch TV passively, listen to the radio passively, and nowadays type endlessly on the computer. That is why these technologies will never be taken away.

Back during the Great Depression, the public was actually more united against the monied elites than is the case today. Moreoever, the labor movement was stronger and people were less arrogant and more sharing. Unfortunately, as I've noticed on this site and just about all others on the net, despite the worst economy this year, there is still a lot of self-righteous ungrateful "me-me-me" arrogance going on. For years, the Republicans have been successful at getting their voters to simmer in anger right up to the election only to see these same voters get sucker punched yet again. This will probably stay a close election although Obama will win most likely. However, even more than FDR, Obama will face even heavier opposition and he better be armed to avoid any attempts of being assassinated by rightwing militants. Until people stop being overly materialistic and get back into the art of team spiritedness, there won't be any major changes for at least the next decade or two.

first, let me say how frustrating and disheartening it is to read the rageful and disrespectful language of these posts. they show ignorance on all sides. this not only does nothing to foster a meaningful dialogue, but insures that none will ever exist. thank you all who use such communication styles for aiding and abetting the powers that be.

that being said, a bit of history might be noted. if one remembers the development of the ku klux klan it was the ruling classes that did the organizing of the poor white sharecroppers and lower working class. in exchange for doing the dirty work of the powers elite, these poor schnooks were given the delusion of false identity with the elite and the means to vent their frustrations in life--against a group of people who where just like them, only with a different skin color.

the mccain campaign has used this style of organizing extensively literally inciting to riot, particularly at palin's rallies. i do believe we have laws against this and she ought to be arrested. this is what they did at the republican convention--pre-emptively arresting dozens of people on 'suspicion' of inciting to riot! john lewis was so correct and appropriate to nail mccain & his crew for behaving like george wallace with his vituperative racism that incited attacks on people of color.

as for poor joe the plumber, he is akin to the poor whites who identify with a ruling class based on his white skin privilege. he will never be one of them, but he buys into them, hook, line and sinker as the saying goes. i work with many joe-the-plumbers. i grew up with them. they are a sorry lot. people who work hard, just get by or maybe a little better. they fear for their future and believe that if they identify with these economic and military thugs they will be protected. it is a cinderella fairy tale that they are trained and conditioned to believe in--like a blind faith. they have been trained to fear socialism without knowing a thing about it because they are the products of the mass social manipulation that goes on in public schools. they do not know history--certainly not the history of working people and the struggles people have gone through to gain the meager protections that have been won. they always vote against their better interest wearing blinders.

i recently had a difficult discussion with a mason. nice guy. works hard. is doing much better than poor joe. but he has bought into every piece of emotional hyperbole aimed against the people. he blames the victims of the sub-prime loan scandal. when confronted with his source of information, he can give none. when prodded to do some reading on the matter, he doesn't have time--he spends it with his young children. so how do you educate adult people who refuse to be educated. and then there was the excavator who thought mccain was the man. he makes more than the mason but still is not a rich man. he fears ?????? but the white man running is more trustworthy than to man of color. he doesn't compare their individual history to make a decision about what they might really understand about working people's lives. he just follows his gut. and my favorite is the 71 yr old woman who wrote me that she is on social security and works 2 jobs that she loves in order to survive. but she supports mccain because she doesn't like socialized medicine. she was an army wife for years and she knew what socialized medicine was! i tried to point out that mccain wants to get rid of social security and all social programs. and that she never experienced socialized medicine--just bad medicine in the army.

these are all joe-the-plumbers. they are everywhere. i don't care that he has no license. i don't think the unions are the only place to get good training. my region only requires licenses in the cities, but not in the small towns around. so joe would be perfectly legal here, and probably is in ohio, too. i think we want to be careful that we don't encourage the elitism of white collar workers against blue collars. if we do, then what makes us different than them!

joe is a sad person. he doesn't know where his real interests lie. he has been manipulated and doesn't even know that he is being played with in a racist game being waged in this campaign and in his life. so a little compassion, i think, would get us much further along in our dialogue with people who disagree with us.

He's tha Sarah Palin of plumbers, maybe? Once again McCain shoots himself in the foot. What an eye for the genuine item. I think who he's chosen to be svengali to speaks volumes. These people are what he sees as the American Ideal -- what he would have us be.

Proof. People vote against their own interests. Joe is the object lesson.

Big deal he is in the underground economy that the democratic party does not have a problem with when it comes to illegal mexicans taking the jobs of hard working americans.
Plumbers are not good role models for working america. Most are making good money legal or not. Most of us cannot afford the $100 or more an hour the union charges.
Plumbers are hard workers and I suspect it pisses off the far left because this job cannot be outsourced overseas.
Next time your sipping tea on your verbrana and your pipes crack-stick a wad of chewing gum in them. You may try some mighty putty or some other home made remedy -this will save a few metals and you will not be contributing to global warming. It is not that any of us mind paying taxes-we hate pissing our money away to people who do not need it or deserve it and keep asking for more.

I'm constantly amazed at the McCain campaign's ability to throw a media distraction at us. The MSN/corporate news are all over this new fun toy.
Let's forget this Joe guy and get back to discussing the real issues.

Mr. Wurtzelburger does hold the classic views of so much of the US working class - especially non union workers.

He says that no one should begrudge a multi-millionaire his money, because "they earned it through hard work" - never offering evidence that they ever worked very hard at all (most rich people I know never worked an honest day in their lives - while the poor I meet on the 86B to Homewood work themselves to death).

But boy-oh-boy - will he get filled with resentment when our politicians (including democrats)whip up their 1984 style one-minute hates against our transit Authority's Union bus drivers, or union public works crews or earlier, the union toll collectors on the PA Turnpike.

No, he is actually all for income redistribution - he wants all other working people to get paid $8.00/hour and be untrained incompetents like he is. While they revere, with awe, their rich (and therefore smart) capitalist bosses!

These are some kind of neo-feudal peasant attitudes! It is exactly the the attitude one might have found in a dirt-poor peasant 500 years ago.

His name is misspelled in the voter database? This must mean voter fraud!!! Kick him off the voting rolls! Oops...wait, he is white and registered Republican. Never mind...

This plant isn't worth the time, electrons, bandwidth, or keystrokes that he's currently receiving.

That said, I would like to point out to the right-wing trolls posting here that capitalists like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates Sr. point out the painfully obvious truth that people who make a lot of money SHOULD pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than those making less. (Because capital gains are taxed at only 15% while labor is taxed at 20-35%, Buffet indicated his secretary is saddled with paying a greater portion of her income in taxes than he, and that it is patently unfair.)

The wealthy derive greater benefits from society than the poor and low-income, and for those services (if not out of a sense of common decency and common cause) ought to be paying more.

And, by the way, not only would Palin be a disastrous VP or (shudder) president, what with her personal vendettas and inability to distinguish between personal and professional agendas, but she is a reprehensible person, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal; I feel that way about anyone who says they enjoy slaughtering other creatures just for the thrill of the slaughter.

"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger

It is sad but true that we the people are stuck with not only the corrupt politicians and business leaders but also with selfish minded individuals who exploit each others weaknesses and rail against public empathy. I used to be a raving conservative in my younger life but when I was at a point where I had to save my wife from near death, I turned a different heart and realized that socialism isn't what the conservatives frame it to be. From "Joe the Plumber" to Sarah Palin, our working class electorate is unfortunately filled with people who are too self-confident and ungrateful. I used to be all that and as a recovering conservative, I know that there is a rough ride ahead of us all. Notice that despite the economic collapse unfolding as a result of unregulated capitalism, people are still railing against socialism despite the fact that most of these same people are in dire need of a safety net. The comments from some of these posters defending "Joe the Plumber" despite the fact that he lied about his working status truly shows that we as a nation have yet to learn from our blind support of disastrous economic policies. I've also noticed that the same people attacking this article didn't even bother to read it. All it talked about was the truth about the voter and he gleefully showed up for it. The same people who cry about "Joe the Plumber" being a victim apparently don't mind when one of their own is a victim as well. If "Joe the Plumber" were a moderate or even a liberal, I wonder how many of these same people defending him would have done the same? America needs to grow up and quit showing animosity towards sharing wealth.

Jason Jordan
Sandpoint, Idaho

real world,

obviously, there's no pity for you here on this site. as is there none for joe the plumber. someone once said, never get in a pissing contest with someone who enjoys getting pissed on. i believe that saying was coined before electronic communication. perhaps you should do what so many such as yourself do, as they're wandering around on-line and stumble onto this site, just spend a little time here - say a day or two - enjoy the piss running over your thick skull, then go on your merry way. better yet, give joe the plumber a call, and in your very best palin-speak, say it ain't so, joe.

Oh yeah he said he liked Sarah Palin? Well that says it all right there about what kind of a lowlife human he is.

Just add Joe to the list of John McClone's lies. I have worked in the construction trades for forty years...an unlicensed plumber is not going to legally make $250K per year and is in fact lucky to make $40K per year.

A hole. I wish owned a plumbing business that made that much. Whining son a bitch.

i'm sorry, real world. my monitor shows your post comparing obama to hitler. i'll call tech support and have them fix it. you call joe the plumber and have him come suck the feces out of your head.

Is this for real?

He's afraid that Obama will lower the tax bar: "150,000...100,000..." presumably because then he might see his taxes increase. But, then he says he would NOT want a tax cut under Obama even if he qualifies.

He's either an imbecile or a very hardcore ideological Libertarian who doesn't want to participate in government income redistribution programs of any kind.

The problem is that his money is going to be distributed away from him, anyway. So, why say "no" to a tax break assuming Obama is true to his word? I can't figure out his logic, other than he's yet another free-market fundamentalist martyr.

No gods, no kings

What's the term? GOTCHYA!!
So Joe isn't a plunber??? gosh,golly,wow!! shucks... and Mrs (a)Pal(l)in is NOT an expert on foreign affairs??? Who would have thunk it??
But,he can see the toilet from his hall,and she can see Russia from her house,surely that must count for something? No,ah well maybe not.
Well Sarah, go get the "six pack" and start crying into your beer... 'cos you lost!!!!
Mr.McShame,do your self a favour,try to salvage the remains of your one time honor,and go very quietly,but quickly into retirement... Your pension funds are secure,so why hang around 'till the bitter end.It can only get worse,and more humilitating for you,spare your self,and us,this poor excuse for a presidential canditature.. it is sooo sad to see a former 'maverick' be paraded as a marionette.
The USA is in need of better leadership than that of the past 8years.
Not continuation of deceit,and self delussion in their 'Comander in chief'.
I do sincerly hope,that reason wins over resentment,America,do the only sensible thing... get out there,vote for REAL change vote for competence,inteligence, integrity,vote for a better tomorrow.... OBAMA / Biden... there IS no other choice.
Finally to take a quote from WWII. "America Needs YOU!!" don't let her down.

This guy just proved how ignorant the republican party is. If I were McCain, I would not mention this guy`s name again because by joe the ignorant plumber working with no plumber`s license just shows how corrupt the republican party is , not saying the democrats are any better but he is associating himself to another corrupt republican just like the current resident of the White House.

Maybe Joe's a plant...?

"It is not true that it's one damn thing after another - it's one damn thing over and over." Edna St. Vincent Millay

realworld,

"what was her qualifications"? is our childrens learning yet? you have the nerve- actually it's not nerve, for if memory serves me correctly, that is somehow connected to the brain - to question/compare the experience of hillarious to palin? is laura bush qualified? for what? so if palin is "normal", and she's not qualified to be president or vice president, what the fuck is she doing on the ticket? and what the fuck are dumbasses like yourself doing supporting such stupidity?

have you seen small children in church, singing the praises of their crammed-down-their-throats-shoved-up-their-asses god?

So the guy is a scab, or what we call a "jackleg plumber". He should have kept his mouth shut, in this age of soundbite journalism. What a dunce.

Joe the 'plumber' and his employer have no plumbing licenses
16 Oct 2008 http://www.legitgov.org/
Joe the [Plumber] lying sack of sh*t said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as 'Joe the Plumber' said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said. But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo.

I wonder how many Aunt Millie’s paid this Republican toady's taxes before they died in their forclosed homes. How many homes do John and Cindy McCain own?

snydly
There's one more reason Joe's not a real plumber---he doesn't know he's living in a tricked-out economic system. And, apparently, neither does Sen. McCain, who may have never turned a wench--er--wrench.
---Snydly: an un-licensed, un-insured, un-registered, divorced, self-radicalized plumber trying to keep his head down, who also thinks Gov Palin is a breast of fresh air.

No wonder he’s a dumbass; he’s a registered Republican.

He made only $40,000 a year and he’s against taxing those who make $250,000 or more a year. How dumb can some people get!

He’s got no idea that more than 30% of workers in America make much less than $9.90/hour, a figure which separates the poverty line.

real world, 4:22pm -

actually, he's a poor, DUMB working stiff. it's amazing that people like him are allowed to vote. even more amazing, they're allowed to breed. boo-hoo, i don't want to pay less taxes, i want to pay more. also, i like palin and her wet dildo joe six pack.

real world, if you want a family forum, go watch dancing with stars.

eurodan, the attention is on this guy because the american sheople love stupid.

Let's not dis Joe. We can take care of him; and we should.

There's one solution for this thing, and if we can't get to the point of agreeing on that, there isn't any more hope for this country or the world than the candidates could possibly have conjured:

http://perfecteconomy.com/pg-if-i-were-president.html

mike montagne — founder, PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy™, author/engineer of mathematically perfected economy™ (1979)

Everyone: Look at the photo. Joe the NON-Plumber who never did a thing to get schooling or licensing for a real plumbing trade sits on his couch with the remote in his hand (probably watching FOX news), pack of cigarettes on the coffee table, and probably cheap beer in the plastic cup. He's going to vote for McInsane because he's all hot for the lipstick wearing pitbull. Can someone please tell me why national attention is focused on him and his story?

On TPM they have news that Joe may be related to Charles Keating. Not quite your average Joe

I happen to be among the 'well off' and I am SERIOUSLY considering NOT paying 2008 federal income taxes inspired by Dorothy Day, a 20th century Christian Anarchist who said:

"One of the most costly protests against war, in terms of long-enduring personal sacrifice, is to refuse to pay federal income taxes which go for war…Wars will cease when we refuse to pay for them…

"Christ commanded His followers to perform what Christians have come to call the works of Mercy: feeding the hungry…visiting prisoners…And how opposite that is to the works of war which starve people by embargoes, lay waste the land, destroy homes, wipe out populations, mutilate and condemn millions more to confinement…Here in the Western Hemisphere, we went for precision bombing [reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki] we went for obliteration bombing.

The morning after Pearl Harbor Day announced, "There is now all this patriotic indignation about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Japanese expansionism in Asia. Yet not a word about American and European colonialism in this same area. We, the British, the French, and others set up spheres of influence…control national states-against the expressed will of these states-and represent imperialism…We dictate to [all] …to where they can expand economically and politically, and we declare what policy they must observe. From our nationalistic and imperialistic point of view, we have every right to concentrate American military forces [Everywhere we chose]…But I waste rhetoric on international politics-the breeding grounds of war over the centuries. The balance of power and other empty slogans inspired by a false and flamboyant nationalism have bred conflict throughout 'civilized' history.

"And it has become too late in human history to tolerate wars which none can win. Nor dare we quibble about just wars…All wars are, by their very nature, evil and destructive. It has become too late for civilized people to accept this evil. We must take a stand. We must renounce war as an instrument of policy…Evil enough when the finest of our youth perish in conflict and even the causes of these conflicts were soon lost to memory. Even more horrible today when cities go up in flames and brilliant scientific minds are searching out ultimate weapons.

"War must cease. There are no victories. The world can bear the burden no longer. Yes, we must make a stand. Even as I speak to you, I may be guilty of what some men call treason. But we must reject war: Yes, we must now make a stand. War is murder, rape, ruin, death; war can end our civilization. I tell you that within a decade we will have weapons capable of ending this world as we have known it."

Regarding her struggles with the IRS due to NOT paying federal income taxes, Day wrote:

"We are on the side of revolution…Jesus said that the worst enemies were those of our own households, and we are all apart of this country, citizens of the United States and we all share in its guilt.

"We disagree with all political parties dedicated to maintaining the status quo. We don’t think the present system is worth maintaining, something else is necessary, some other vision of society must be held up and worked toward."

On July 4, 1776, 55 rich white guys signed onto The Declaration of Independence and gave we the people a way out of our current mess:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights;...that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; and, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it."

Eileen Fleming, Citizen Journalist, Author,
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu" and
"13 Minutes with Vanunu" FREELY STREAMING
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

Geeze. I feel sorry for the guy. Some old politician mentions him on TV and then you have everyone running background checks on him revealing his most private information. I saw this poor guy on TV.

He supports billionaires. He's so dumb that he does not know who wants to help HIM. Isn't this most Republicans? Most conservative Americans sit around blathering about socialism and they don't even know what it is. They sit around blathering about war rather than face the reality that war is about taking other's resources and lining the pockets of billionaires. It has little to do with patriotism, freedom of speech, or any other such jabber. Billionaires have wrapped themselves in the flag so they could rape and pillage the poor. They have allegiance to one thing--money.

Republicans are not even smart enough to have their lies believable...........if one is to have a scam, be sure that the obvious things will check out. Amazing!!

"He won't say who he will vote for on Nov. 4, but did say he likes Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin."

Yeah. She's hot. She'd prolly be great in bed. But in the White House? I don't think so.

Just another bullet-headed, Saxon mother's son.

Both parties are PRO redistribution of wealth. They just have differing viewpoints on HOW it should be redistributed and HOW MUCH is fair for each person to give. The accumulation of wealth is usually facilitated by the use of the Commons, therefore those in the top 5% should pay a bit more. It's a very simple Democratic notion folks, unfortunately not simple enough for good ole Joe.

Part of the American dream is that you - not the other guy, but YOU, might perchance make it big sometime. And that's why you have to act now to keep tax rates for the rich low and prevent an inheritance tax that might some day affect your family's fortunes.
It's akin to playing the lottery: no regards for the statistical likelihoods, but keep hoping. Meanwhile, cynical people are calling the lottery a Tax for the Mathematically Challenged.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Let's elect Obama and support Progressive Democrats of America http://pdamerica.org to convince him that progressive policies make sense and resonate with people's ultimate desire for peace, sustainability, and responsible economics.

I love the guy's comments: he's basically saying "don't take more of my money if and when I someday in the future make enough to qualify for the higher tax rate, but I don't want to participate in Obama's tax cut plan, even though I would owe less in taxes in the near future..."

In Canada we have the same thing. People vote Conservative simply because they dont want their tax money to go to poor people.

They dont care that their money gets wasted on the military or to subsidize big business( earlier this year Canada paid hog farmers $50 000 000 to kill off their pigs to bring the price of pork down.
And they subsidize the seal hunt among other things.

Why arent the people who complain about welfare going after them too?

Not to say there arent lots of stupid lazy people who want to live off the system-but dont ignore the rich ones who do it.
But then some of these anti tax people hope they will be the ones to live off the system(but they will deserve it because they work).
Corporate welfare, calvinism...

Leave it to the so called "progressives" to tear down a poor working stiff just because he didn't genuflect to the chosen one.

Let's hope there aren't too many voters that think like Mr. Wurzelbacher, who seems to glorify ignorance. It is entirely true that many who make $250,000 or more a year aren't actually working harder than people who work as cashiers, handbill deliverers, fast-food workers, multi-job part-timers, or various other low-paying jobs.

The point is that people who make $250,000 or more can be taxed at a higher percentage rate AND STILL HAVE LOTS MORE DISPOSABLE INCOME FOR LEISURE AND LUXURY than the vast majority of hard-working Americans.

The necessity for such a graduated tax scale would be self-evident in a just society (one not entirely based on greed) that recognized that people who work hard at what might be considered lowly jobs, still have an inalienable right to a decent life for themselves and their families.

This guy, like so many others, is convinced that one day he'll be as rich as McCain, but if he doesn't stop those dirty, rotten liberals today, they'll take all his "hard earned" money tomorrow.

That's why these naive rubes fight so hard to keep the monied elite in power. They don't realize the system is rigged, the game is fixed, and the top one percent is laughing at them all the way to the bank.

"'Spread the wealth' was quickly picked up by conservative bloggers and commentators saying it reveals a desire to redistributed wealth on the part of Mr. Obama."

Wasn't trickle-down voodoo Reaganomics predicated on "spreading the wealth"?

Sounds more like one of Nixon's "plumbers" to me.

"That's a pretty socialist comment. Two-fifty ($250,000) is his number now. When is it going to be one fifty ($150,000), when it's going to be one hundred ($100,000)?"

He continued: "If you believe him, I would be receiving his tax cut," adding that he would not want the tax cut.

Some people just can't be saved from their own stupidity. Somebodies brainwashing is showing. Maybe they taught this to him in the Airforce?

People making over $250,00 a year are not working "harder" than those making $40,000 a year...they are either working smarter, or started out with some family money to pay for their education, or inherited and live on their investment income.

"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats