Impeach Bush Now?

@ samiemma-

Thanks for that link again. I will go to my Barnes and Noble and ask for it by name. Loudly. From across the room. "WHERE CAN I FIND THE BOOK: THE PROSECUTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH FOR MURDER?"

dablackanarch says:

"I was actually building up to my point about the government being a pure, naked monopoly on deadly force."

Yes, and I think government needs to have a monopoly on that level of power.

"I am no pacifist and I have no desire to restrict gun ownership."

I have become ambivalent on "gun control" as a means to reduce gun crime.

" there have been many reformers who have went to Congress with the best of intentions, only to become the very same entrenched powers that we're trying to dislodge right now."

Yes, we can never be sure that "intentions" spoken by politicians are their true intentions. The Clintons and Bush are recent examples, and I am not sure at all about Obama.

"The system does what it was designed to do and the only way to fix it is to discard it."

That may sound good, but discarding it can only result in anarchy

"using force even to bring about a 'good' end, corrupts what you're doing."

That is a very profound statement. I will grant that "persuasion" is morally superior to the use of "force", but it will never achieve social justice. Social justice can never be achieved without laws that codify unacceptable behavior.

"Your snub against 'anarchy'"

Actually, I see a society based on "live and let live" (anarchy) as the ideal society - but never achievable on this planet, except in very unique and small instances.

" doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It simply means that you don't agree. I accept that."

Thanks

www.prosecutionofbush.com

Read it, buy it, talk about it.

Thank you to both Clarity and Daniel David for taking time to write thoughtful replies.

I have to admit that it has taken time and I have arrived reluctantly at the conclusion of willful powerlessness of the Democratic party as it stands today.

The Senate and the House are both places where actions are sometimes more powerful in their machinations than their impact. And I too started out thinking that impeachment was wishful thinking...an eye for an eye thinking for the impeachment of Bill Clinton. And since the actual substance of the impeachment movement with Clinton while his overall popularity remained so high was more to cripple his agenda than ever to remove him from office...it just seemed like despicable political manuevering. And like many I did not want to see the Dems go there.

But the fact is that this guy, Bush, has trampled the Constitution and the situation has risen to a time of "if not now, when?"

And what I think sets me apart from both DD and Clarity is that I believe that the Dems "pass" on pursuing Bush and Cheney is a deliberate complicity. It is anticipation that when they are in power then THEY can pursue...extra-ordinary rendition of their enemeies, denial of habeus corpus, the concept of the unitary executive. And I believe that all of these things are bad for our democracy. They are tools that need to be resoundingly removed from the hands of our leadership and the message needs to be firmly delivered that this is _intolerable_.

So I disagree with your estimation, Clarity, that we are not in a time of crisis.

This helps me to understand your point of view, but I disagree with it.

Do I think that impeachment will be sucessful? This is like the trick question being imposed on educators everywhere. What is success? If for you success means that the president is removed from office and stops rattling sabers at Iran, then I agree that this will not happen and would be a very poor reason to under-take impeachment.

For me the rationale for impeachment is to reinstate the integrity of the constitution. All those things I mentioned in my initial post. Impeachment would be a mechanism to start massive investigations into the Bush presidency. Ideally it would culminate in either post-presidency impeachment or even better criminal prosecution. I prefer criminal prosecution. Every politician must get the message that Americans WILL NOT tolerate the Bush trampling of the Constitution.

I see no other way to deliver that message. When the Dems won in 2006 we looked to them for leadership on the restoration of the constitution. Henry Waxman has shown some courage as has Kucinich but people in other key positions did not.

During this presidency abuse of signing statements, habeus corpus, extra-ordinary rendition BUT ALSO the installing of the notion of Unitary Executive, unprecedented power in the VP role, a morphing of the role of the Department of Justice as an organization that supported the president but did not provide a needed check to his activities--these are all highly corrosive activities that occurred.

Based on the actions of these Dems, I am not willing to take it on faith that those abuses are going to be repudiated.

They never even came up on the campaign trail.

I will probably vote for Obama or for no one. Haven't decided.

But, clearly DD and Clarity, my perspective on the health of democracy is very different from yours.

Impeach this whole damned fakedemocracy!!

With that hack Pelosi in charge? Not a chance. This "article" is rubbish. Flackery designed to give cover to the Democrats and the Obamarama.

All of this talk from people who seem not to get the poltical process at all. WE ELECT THESE PEOPLE. Bush may think this Constitution is a joke, but I DON'T! If you want Congress to impeach, then get on the phone and block the lines up with messages of impeachment. If they don't put the motion in to do so, then you'll know who NOT to vote for when its time for them to be "re-elected".
As long as we are "fighting" over if the Dems. are in with the Repubs., then nothing is going to happen. I believe that we ALL agree that the Bush Admin. are a bunch of criminals, so get on the phone. Tell your sister... your brother... your cousin... your uncle... your aunt... your friends... and whomever else that will have the guts to stand up and get on the phone, send an email, or personally pay a visit to see their represntative that if they don't move to impeach, then they can kiss their job good-bye!

John, I appreciate your response and look forward to Cindy's. The only point that I want to take up with you is your assertion that, "You are of course now talking about the people who want to restrict gun ownership." I was actually building up to my point about the government being a pure, naked monopoly on deadly force.

I am no pacifist and I have no desire to restrict gun ownership. However, I will say that every attempt to ban guns only makes it to where lawbreakers will have them. Trust me. I was raised in a crime-ridden area and acquiring weaponry isn't even hard.

Even if you feel that I exaggerate in my statements about what Cindy would actually accomplish with the weapons of State, you must admit that there have been many reformers who have went to Congress with the best of intentions, only to become the very same entrenched powers that we're trying to dislodge right now. Cindy is too great and too powerful a person to waste herself on government. All of you are too valuable and precious to allow yourselves to buy into the myth of 'reform'. The system does what it was designed to do and the only way to fix it is to discard it.

It is not nonsense that Cindy will have the force of every policeman, bureaucrat and soldier/sailor/airman/marine to enforce any laws that she is able to help pass. You can hope that she will pass reasonably good laws but, I say that this very ability means that there will always be injustice and corruption in this society. 'Social Justice' can only be defined by individuals and using force even to bring about a 'good' end, corrupts what you're doing. Your snub against 'anarchy' doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It simply means that you don't agree. I accept that. :)

dablackanarch

"I cannot believe that there are so called 'progressives' that are so weak, so scared to actually contemplate fighting, that they favor a military coup right here in Amerikkka."

If I were in the military right now, I would support a militay coup. And I also think that under the circumstances, our troops have every right to overthrow the Commander-in-Chief.

"We are talking about men and women who are trained for one single thing. To KILL."

Yes, and they could overthrow our whole rotten government in a heartbeat.

"To even contemplate, to even consider a possible military coup as the means to our liberation"

I'm not thinking of "our" liberation. I'm thinking about the liberation of the troops.

"It has been estimated that only 5% of the colonial population of America participated against a revolution against the strongest, most powerful, military force at that time. 5%! Surely, we have more than 5% of our population that is ready to scrap this farce and start new."

Well, when I see 2 million armed civilians ready to overthrow this government, I'll join them (even at age 85)

"Shrubya was right. The Constitution is only a goddamn piece of paper."

Yes

"Who actually believes that this document actually embodies all the rights that we are entitled to?"

In fact, we can see now that it doesn't even guarantee all of the rights that are written in it.

"let us build the society that works for people, not for corporations or economies."

I'm all for it!

"you have people ready and willing to step up and point guns at some or all of us to provide others with their livelihood."

You are of course now talking about the people who want to restrict gun ownership.

"Does this not scare you? Does this not make you afraid?"

That is a complicated and separate subject

"Cindy Sheehan, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney are all wonderful people who have, in their frustration, put down their pens, voices, and personal power and are now running for the opportunity to control the guns of state to force change. This is saddening and scary."

What nonsense!

"Cindy, I know you read this site quite often. I've respected your struggle and respect you still. Do you still believe that you can change the system that killed your son by taking hold of the same guns that threaten all of our sons?"

The guns of government are essential for the protection of social justice, and we need people like Sheehan, Nader, and Kucinich in control of those guns.

"This government rules not by one person, one vote, but by force."

All governments rule by force which is the reason to ensure that the people who control those guns are dedicated to social justice - and certainly not the anarchy that you seem to aspire to.

"Would you risk some 'policeman' killing my son because I refuse to obey some law that you as a politician create?"

Crimes need to be punished in accordance with codified laws.

"Why would you now take all of your hard-earned satyagraha (soul power) and waste it on trying to resurrect a dead system?"

That's a wild exaggeration

"I want life and more life."

Who doesn't?

clarity says:

"I believe these last eight years have been extremely detrimental to our country . I do not believe that we are in an existential crisis that threatens our way of life, or has been of such enormity that we cannot change course and right our ship of state."

Such a pronouncement is hardly re-assuring to me.

"This of course is not true of the many thousands of US service people, and Iraqis and Afghanis of all walks of life, who have been killed, maimed and had their lives and the lives of those who loved them permanently scared."

How many more need to be permanently scarred before the word "enormity" can be justified?

"I believe George W Bush is a weak man who was manipulated and taken advantage of by powerful men who believe in a world that is more in line with a Frederick N view of the proper human condition as more of a Master/Slave relationship- where those of superior talents are meant to control others and take what they can."

Does the weak character of Bush, and the fact that he is being manipulated, change anything? I don't think so - and it surely should not be taken as an excuse for not condemning him.

"They view all other more egalitarian outlooks as an attempt by the weak to wrongly control the strong- meant by God or the Universe to master their destiny."

In fact we DO need the strong to control the weak, and furthermore, it is unavoidable that they WILL always control the weak. But what we need even more is that the strong will be totally dedicated to social justice. That is not presently the case, and it is the critical weakness in American society.

But as long as democracy prevails there will be hope.

rtdrury, I've signed about a thousand petitions to impeach since 2002, to no avail. I live deep in the midwest, far from DC and even if I went there I'd just be another sign waver accomplishing zero, much like signing any more petitions meant only to tease and torture us all into believing in the impossible.

I've emailed and called my Democratic congressman dozens of times and he doesn't alter his position an iota, he just keeps voting for more funding like the rest of the Dumbocrats DD has such undying faith in.

"Fighting" for impeachment is going on strictly in the heads of those groups and figureheads like McGovern and Ramsey Clark who aren't making it happen any more than we commenters on CD. Pelosi and Conyers and Co. might listen for a minute or two, but they KNOW they're not going to do anything. Kucinich also KNOWS nothing will happen, he just goes ahead with his articles of impeachment anyway, for political atmospheric effects I suppose.

The fix has been in on this matter for at least 5 years: No impeachment, not now, not ever, for these war criminals. That's how the Dems believe they'll win back the WH (look at dodo DD's comments for confirmation) and they aren't listening to anything else. Bush can bomb the hell out of Iran now and they STILL won't intercede to stop him. Rich M and Little Brother get this; why the hell doesn't everyone else?

As for battling the war profiteers and the corporate press, I've done about as much as many others and more than most, but curiously I can't work magic all by myself on that score either. I can vocally deplore and rail against all they do, go to meetings where others do the same, write letters, call my useless congressman to no effect (I get back nothing but boilerplate), and then what? Blame myself for not doing enough? I'm not Bill Moyers, and last I looked he hasn't been able to make any big changes in the corporate press or bring justice to the war profiteers. There's no movement afoot to do any of these things, just a few lonely souls battling the dragons, getting knocked down and ignored, keeping up the good fight.

This has been America's story for 150 years. Americans refuse to, or are incapable of, organizing effectively around these kinds of issues, so we are forever condemned to repeating history.

IMpeach Pelosi first! She holds the key because no one ever gets past her iron fist. Along with the rest of the criminals, she too is implicated in illegal activities and threatened to fire Conyers if he did set up to impeach Bush. Someone needs to get this woman led out in chains and sent to jail for her obstruction to justice. And Conyers ought to have more guts than cower to this disgraceful woman. Seems like the whole Congress is browbeaten by Pelosi.

Also, Ray McGovern is exactly correct when he criticizes John Conyers for wanting to wait until bush attacks Iran before starting with impeachment. That IS too late. How many more bad things do bush and cheney have to do before Pelosi and Conyers see fit to do their jobs???!!

One more thing? Two more things?

It's like a scaredy cat saying "If you cross that line, THEN, I'll put you in your place."

So the kid crosses that line, and the scaredy cat backs up and makes another line and says, "If you cross THAT line, THEN, I'll put you in your place."

How much longer do we have to witness this embarrassment of cowardice in our Congress and Judiciary Committee?? It's sickening.

Perhaps a phone call can have some influence with Rep. Conyers (202) 225-5126 and/or Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi
(202) 225-0100

Daniel David (11:54 am) writes, "Good ole Huck....has failed to address the main issue, which is, 'Can you get a conviction'? "

- Note that DD's viewpoint fails to recognize even the possibility that by holding House hearings, & by presenting a powerfully-argued case against Bush-Cheney, that public clamor for impeachment would grow, as it did during the Watergate hearings. This might conceivably affect the chances of getting a conviction. And even if it didn't, the Republicans' defense of Bush-Cheney in the Senate might in itself harm the Republicans' chances even more in November.

DD, like all Dem Party cowards, argues that if it doesn't look like a conviction would be probable at the outset, that one shouldn't even try -- not even if defending the principle of constitutional governance is on the line.

Good piece, Ray McGovern.

Whether or not impeachment actually succeeds, we MUST go forward with the hearings. It is a matter of saving what little is left of the Constitution and 'democracy' in this country. God save us all if they don't proceed. bush and cheney have 6 more months to destroy this country, and they WILL do it. They aren't going anywhere. They have dreams of a police state and world control.

I think that smirk on bush's mug is because he can't believe he is getting away with so much without being stopped. He's like a naughty child who is seeing how much he can get away with. Who will be the adult and stop him?

Good ole Huck, fanciful as ever, has failed to address the main issue, which is, "Can you get a conviction"? If so, how?

Ephraim, you don't want to fight on the impeachment front, ok, so can you re-assign yourself? How about you battle the corporate press? Or the war profiteers - can you help expose them to their catastrophic fallout? The idea is to make the price of their actions too high and spoil the deal for them.

Daniel David has it backwards. The Democrats have enabled, caved, assisted, opened, participated with everything the Republicans have done to diminsh democracy in this country. Obama is moving to the center as noted on numerous CD articles. His Jewish money changers are positioning for another war this on in Iran. Obama's environmental plan is typical status quo tripe written by Nuclear and Bio Fuel insiders. His VP search names all the inside the beltway elites as though a qualified VP can only be drawn from the status quo beltway and those in bed with moneyed interests. Rich M accurately notes the deception in this article. Another sheeple quest for those who don't think for themselves.

Unenforced laws usually are not well observed, so what other behavior ought we expect from criminals, high or petty?

If we don't impeach them, then America's Noble Experiment has come an ignoble end.

I cannot believe that there are so called 'progressives' that are so weak, so scared to actually contemplate fighting, that they favor a military coup right here in Amerikkka. What the hell are you people on? Do you realize for as dangerous and murderous as you all claim that Shrubya and company are, that your military makes them look like bully schoolgirls. We are talking about men and women who are trained for one single thing. To KILL. To even contemplate, to even consider a possible military coup as the means to our liberation is to jump from the frying pan, into a blazing inferno.

It has been estimated that only 5% of the colonial population of America participated against a revolution against the strongest, most powerful, military force at that time. 5%! Surely, we have more than 5% of our population that is ready to scrap this farce and start new. Shrubya was right. The Constitution is only a goddamn piece of paper. Who actually believes that this document actually embodies all the rights that we are entitled to? Scrap the goddamned document and the government that claims to rule you by it's writ and let us build the society that works for people, not for corporations or economies.

Why, with all this talk of impeachment, is there no one talking about the greatest threat to our lives. The fact is that, whether Rethuglican or Green, you have people ready and willing to step up and point guns at some or all of us to provide others with their livelihood. Does this not scare you? Does this not make you afraid? Cindy Sheehan, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney are all wonderful people who have, in their frustration, have put down their pens, voices, and personal power and are now running for the opportunity to control the guns of state to force change. This is saddening and scary.

Cindy, I know you read this site quite often. I've respected your struggle and respect you still. Do you still believe that you can change the system that killed your son by taking hold of the same guns that threaten all of our sons? This government rules not by one person, one vote, but by force. George Washington himself said that Government is force. Would you risk some 'policeman' killing my son because I refuse to obey some law that you as a politician create? Why would you now take all of your hard-earned satyagraha (soul power) and waste it on trying to resurrect a dead system? Email me at dablackanarch at gmail.com to talk about it.

Please understand me, people. We don't need a 'savior'. We don't need a 'hero' or any leader. We just need to stop fighting each other on how to go about getting what we need and want and stand alongside each other. When the collapse comes and come it will, I will not care if the guy standing next to me in the fields or helping me rebuild my home is a Democrap or Rethuglican. I will only care that he is helping me. Let us fight, just this one time, and then be free to live. I'm tired of living in a cultural embrace of a death ethic. I don't want to praise any more soldiers killing in a battlefield but turning away from a woman making love in the street. I want life and more life. What about you?

Molly J,

Since you asked for an "answer" from me about why I could justify foregoing impeachment of all the Bush/Cheney crimes,
here it is once again. Because it CAN NOT succeed. The votes on the "jury" ARE NOT THERE. Neither you nor any of the other posters here can make Republicans convict members of their own gangs, no matter how many posts you write about how bad the crimes. They would both be acquitted of everything.

We're just dumb lucky that Bush has not had the opportunity to make one or two more Supreme Court appointments and then us citizens lose every decision to neocons for two generations. My focus is on electing a better president for better Supreme Court appointments. If I thought the impeachment would help elect Obama over McCain, I'd be for it. But I can't believe or think that. It has an excellent chance to backfire the election and put McCain in even though Obama now has the lead. THAT, not foregoing the impeachment, would be the true tragedy-----and another example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I have lost all faith in Americans. You are lead by criminals.

Impeachment isn't a matter of politics, good or bad, as some here imply. It's a matter of letting those in power know that they're not above the law. A terrible precedent was set when Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he hadn't even been convicted of, a precedent that was later used by Bush the Elder when he pardoned the Iran-Contra conspirators. By allowing Bush and his gang to walk away unscathed, we're setting another one. It's like the chief of police saying, "Well, we believe we know who molested and murdered those kids, but we hear they're leaving town next week, so it's not worth pursuing." Would you want to live in a town where criminals know they just have to keep on moving and all will be forgiven?

Go ahead and say it again Ephraim, like everyone else and like it means anything at all.

Can anyone here count to 2? 1: Conyers. 2: The MSM.

EVERYTHING changes after 2. Caving politicans become an asset, not a liability, because the jukebox will be out of control and the only tune available will be BUSH=HITLER.

This whole issue of impeachment has been like a torture tool for leftists and progressives for seven hellish years dangling it before our weary and frustrated faces as if it's some inevitabilty we can at last faithfully anticipate if only we harass our Congressman sufficiently.

How many times must it be said?--Impeachment was NEVER going to happen, not in 2001, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08. How about *never*, Ray, and Ramsey Clark and about 5,000 impeachment activists who've spent and wasted immeasureable time with online petitions, haranguing everyone to call Congressmen, flooding email boxes with these feckless and utterly useless pleadings that "we" must force impeachment back on the table when it was never anywhere near the fucking table.

How many times must it be said to these folks that the Democratic party, apart from the quixotic Kucinich and maybe three others, was NEVER going to consider impeachment--mainly because they "know" it would only spoil their chances of regaining the White House? They don't care what we the invisible people think, they don't listen to us except when their polling data tells them which way to shift in the winds of public opinion. So long, that is, that public opinion doesn't mention the dreaded "I" word.
Which is now, ever was and forever shall remain, Off The Freaking Table.

Not only is it now far too late to continue nursing this impossible dream, but it's been too late all along. It was too late in 2003, simply because even then the dimwit Dumbocrats were totally convinced that impeachment wouldn't play well with voters, who would turn out in droves to elect another Republican, feeling sorry for Bush or whatever idiotic explanation they have cultivated all these insane years. They're as much the problem as the Rethuglicans because they're scared shitless of them. Impeachment will happen about the same time Kucinich beats Tiger Woods in a major PGA tournament.

Ray is the only person on this page who makes any sense, and he did not imply, as Rich claimed, that the Democrats 251 vote was in good faith.

Those who want Bush arrested are dreaming.

Those happy to wait till Jan 09 haven't registered the blithe determination to attack Iran before then.

Those concerned about constitution on principle are merely half-right.

That Bush's (many) criminal offences are documented and provable in court is clear to anyone has been trawling the web carefully enough.

If Conyers moves on impeachment the MSM PRESS will not be able to avoid CATALYSING the issue. THIS AND THIS ALONE WILL TAKE CONGRESS HOSTAGE TO AN INFORMED PUBLIC AND DERAIL BUSH WHILE IT MATTERS.

Hopefully, Iran will get the message and strike against Israel first, and the rest of the Middle East will join them and finally destroy the worst experiment in the history of the world. Either the Middle Eastern countries get smart and realize this is their last chance and if they don't join together and destroy, completely, the Israeli experiment, they will surely all go the way of Iraq. The Democrats are the getaway car drivers of the biggest bank robbery in history, they are the holders of the bag for the rapists, murderers and genocidal maniacs that is the present administration. Those who expected the wormy Dems to do a single thing to bring justice back to this nation, are stupid fools.

This is an excellent time to make our voices heard for impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Sign up, make phone calls, write letters, anything else?

Hey, D. Kucinich, If these Articles of Impeachment get any legs, make sure you don't go on any planes in the near future.

COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN....LIKE I'VE SAID BEFORE....IT IS NOW UP TO US(EVERY TRUE PATRIOT WILLING TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION ON THEIR OWN!) TO PREPARE OURSELVES FOR THE INEVITABLE NEW AMERICAN REVOLUTION TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY. I'M SURE YOU ALL MUST REALIZE BY NOW THAT "WE THE PEOPLE" HAVE NO WAY POLITICALLY TO REGAIN CONTROL OF COUNTRY. ALL OF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT VIRTUALLY ALL OF OUR REPRESENTATIVES ARE NOT ACTING ON OUR BEHALF. AS FRANK1569 POSTED ABOVE, THIS CAN HAPPEN. IT WILL NEED THE BACKING OF ALL TRUE PATRIOTIC AMERICANS. WHAT ARE "WE" WAITING FOR?

Impeach Bush and Cheney.

Only Ralph Nader and Green Party Cynthia McKinney is willing to do it.

Not my congressman Mike Thompson, CA. Not Pelosi. Not the majority of the democratic representatives.

What's up with that?

If you don't know, just keep voting for them.

Great Day for Sailing
The Democrats are allowing the Republicans to chart new waters in the Sea of Runningoutheclock. Looks like fair weather and smooth sailing ahead. Shiver me timbers!

We know it ain't gonna happen ~Ray~.

There is no place in hell painful enough for all these gutless, complicit, and phony 'opposition' party pols.

Far worse than the Nixon Watergate era, when "there was a cancer on the presidency" --- today with this two-party 'Vichy' corrupt and complicit government, "there is a cancer on the whole government".

actually i agree with daniel david - impeachment is foolish... as foolish as recycling, as foolish as hybrid cars, as foolish as solar power, as foolish as headstart, as foolish as affirmative action, as foolish as emancipation, as suffrage, as the impeachment proceedings of nixon, as the arrest of pinochet, as the world court, as the UN, and so on - clarity and daniel david are right - there is no new crime and therefore no new need to pursue criminal justice - just let them be disgraced by their own histories and move on (you ninnies)

I like Mr. Carter's letter to Nancy Peliosi, his letter put into words my own feelings about Bush, Cheney and the rest of the "elected" officials of my country. I also agree that the time for letter writing, researching on the internet is all fine and good, however for the past eight years folks have been doing this in a effort to bring to light the high crimes of the Bush war machine.

I'm afraid its coming down to the point of action. Either by our own military creating a coup to overthrow the current regime or....Civil War that would plunge this country into the same morass that the country of Iraq is currently experiencing. Our choices are few and I'm afraid America is unwilling to take either of the steps listed above. That might mean another country may have to come over and attack to bring down this government before the U.S. unleashes a war that may truly be "The War to End all Wars."

.
Save this Nation before it is too late !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMPEACH both Bush and Cheney...........NOW !!!!!!!!!!!

.

Roger Carter:

I like your letter to Pelosi. Vast, pungent stain indeed. I just want to apologize to the whole world for the actions of the US government, and the ignorance and compacency of so many of us. Although it is important to recognize, as you do, that many millions of us oppose US aggression and are shamed by our country's actions.

It is very arrogant to assume that average citizens will turn on the Democratic Party for dragging out into the open, via the impeachment process, the horrible details of all of the offenses of the Bush Crime Family. It was the very public impeachment process in the case of Richard Nixon which turned public opinion in favor of Impeachment.

Would time be better spent on spending plans proposed by Bush or debating bills that Bush will veto or the senate will filibuster?

Democratic "leaders" who have been complicit in torture and illegal spying oppose impeachment to cover their own asses.

>>John Freeman June 19th, 2008 4:53 pm
Personally I do not support the process of impeachment. Arrest by a platoon of Marines and an airplane ride to the Hague, now THAT I support. Much cheaper, as well.<<

Why the Hague? You do know that the ICC has no jurisdiction to arrest, try or otherwise bother the ass from Texas, or Cheny, or Rumsfeld right? For them the Hague is just a place in the Netherlands, not some trail they have to face.

You need to do some research into what these International Organizations were designed to do and how they were set up. Wanting GWB sent to get tried is fine, but that would have to happen here in the US because the ICC doesn't have jurisdiction.

Molly J 5:49

"But I would like to hear from both of you if you have a sense of the government being in a very dangerous situation or do you think this is just business as usual. If you think it is the latter, I understand your attitude. If you have a higher degree of alarm, what do you think will halt the erosion of the constitution? What needs to happen so that we won't get "more of the same" if not impeachment."

I believe these last eight years have been extremely detrimental to our country and many others, most especially the Iraqis. I do not believe that we are in an existential crisis that threatens our way of life, or has been of such enormity that we cannot change course and right our ship of state. This of course is not true of the many thousands of US service people, and Iraqis and Afghanis of all walks of life, who have been killed, maimed and had their lives and the lives of those who loved them permanently scared.

I believe George W Bush is a weak man who was manipulated and taken advantage of by powerful men who believe in a world that is more in line with a Frederick N view of the proper human condition as more of a Master/Slave relationship- where those of superior talents are meant to control others and take what they can. They view all other more egalitarian outlooks as an attempt by the weak to wrongly control the strong- meant by God or the Universe to master their destiny.

I do not believe there is any great conspiracy. These people have always been with us throughout history. I find insinuations of the Bush family as all powerful controllers of all aspects of this country as quite amusing. Living in CT and having worked internationally I know several people personally who make the entire family look like paupers. The Clintons have made oodles more money! They would be so far down the Forbes list of wealthiest Americans it's hysterical to think they control so much and aren't even a blib on the radar screen when it comes to true wealth. Through their political positions and the advantages it gives them- yes they have had and continue to exert great influence on our system (less so every day with little George thank goodness), but flights of fancy of Bush control of the world are amongst the silliest notions bantered about on these pages.

To the many negative and unethical and perhaps even illegal things done by this administration I think it is important to note they are for the most part nothing new under the sun- just more extreme. For instance:

*"making the government a cash cow for corporate buddies (no bid contracts, etc)"-I don't think I really have to go on here that this is not an invention of GWB. Wrong and disgraceful yes, but no serious student of government would try and argue this has always gone on to various degrees.

*" rescinding habeas corpus" Finally the Supreme Court has stepped in and corrected this injustice, but again, Adams, Lincoln and FDR to name but a few have done the same. Also this was not a general suspension of HC as is often claimed or insinuated- the reason most Americans don't care is because it is targeted at "suspected terrorists". Much like the wiretapping which was only done internationally it was not targeted at political rivals, union activist etc. I guarantee you that if just one instance of a Naomi Klein or the like being denied HC or wiretapped Bush would be impeached and convicted so fast it would spin your head. Understand, this is still wrong, but not indicative a Fascist state run amok. Honestly, sites like CD do not exist in Dictatorships people- are we headed in the wrong direction, should we be diligent, absolutely and always, but once perspective is lost and claims become silly – no one will listen- that is, no one who counts.

*" and last but not least and more egregiously, supporting and allowing torture of detainees?" I agree- this is counter to everything we stand for as a nation.

*" leading us to war on completely false grounds, invading a country that had done nothing to us" Again, unfortunately, not the first time! Also, due to our, and by this I mean we the people's "habit" of wasteful energy consumption, every important country in the Middle East has a whole lot to do with us! Who would fight for Oil? Silly question- you might as well ask who would fight for food when starving our heat when freezing or oxygen for breathing- that's oil to us. Not just some commodity for rich people to make money on, but the key ingredient without which we cannot survive as a nation. Wrong- you bet. Something we should have been addressing for the last 50 years- absolutely. Reality- no doubt. Please note this in no way justifies the Iraq war which I believe has endangered our energy supply and even were this not true could still not justify such aggression. But nothing to do with us? Innocent Saddam? Come on…

At any rate I very much appreciate you thoughtful post and hope this clears up some of my thinking for you. Bush is a disaster- now let's be real and do what we can to correct it. I like an occasional fantasy too but I think another web site might be more appropriate.

hellodarling June 19th, 2008 8:10 pm -- "does clarity's cheerleading on behalf of daniel david make his arguments any more convincing???"

Actually, I think DD is very convincing. You just have to appreciate fully what you are being told.

It seems quite clear that progressive votes are important to the Dems only insofar as gaining power is concerned. Getting your support is not considered a worthwhile basis for any pre-election actions, or even for any hard and specific promises of future actions. They ask for your vote on the basis that, maybe, they might do what you want after you've already given them what they want from you. Fat chance!

Fuck Bush.

does clarity's cheerleading on behalf of daniel david make his arguments any more convincing???

hahaha no

just more hysterics coming from the democratic right.

ROGER CARTER: Most excellent letter! Thank you for being moved to write and send it!

MOLLY J: Informed discussion.

KARLOF1: The people living near to Krakatoa thought it was just another day when it began to smoke and then pop! Nature's wrath may play a role in US politics and economics... first the warning of Katrina came, now the other end of the Mississippi is getting the flood waters. Nature will step in when mankind doesn't get IT.

GREENER THAN THOU: Do you really think you own the spiritual maturity to speak against the law of karma as understood by devout types who meditated all day for days until ENLIGHTENMENT came to them? Your cynicism with modern day American political processes is well-founded, but don't let that mar your vision for things that stand above and beyond immediate mundane events.

Impeachment is the best answer for the questions of the day; for in the final instance it is a matter of behavior that matters most. To me the focus of Bush/Cheney as war criminals pales in comparison to the collective behavior continuing to place the Troops and innocent Civilians currently in harms way; having just viewed another batch of the dead on PBS NewsHour - 16 Troops this time, 9 just the other day, 63 killed and many dozens wounded on the Civilian side.

Just as the count was stopped in Florida at the start of this nightmare, now is the time to stop the count of torturous death, maiming and human displacement, all done in the name of oil speculator and war contracting profits - this can be done most expediantly at this moment in the history of humankind through the process of impeachment.

Impeachment: an article of the greatest document of human governance in human history - this is the time, We are The People.

IMPEACH: MS PELOSI ALSO!!!

IMPEACH: W BUSH THE WAR CRIMINAL AND HIS CROONIES NOW!!!

Good evening, America........I hope you will not mind the fact that I, as a Brit have just mailed Ms Pelosi the following letter:

I hope you approve. Thank you.

Dear Ms Pelosi

I hope you find this contact from a Brit of some interest; I am minded to contact you since you hold a most prestigious and potent position within the US Congress - once the Heart of democracy. I say, "once" advisedly since even as a foreigner it is as plain as a pikestaff that your country can no longer claim that mantle.

The actions of your President and his cohorts of military adventurers are a vast,pungent stain spead across the length and breadth of the one country that stood as a beacon for freedom. Perceived by millions of foreigners like myself, the USA is now considered to be a pariah among free nations spreading death and destruction on a scale no less than that of nazi Germany. It is fair to say that there are enormous numbers of your own countrymen and women who consider that your nation has become little better than the Third Reich.

Let me illustrate just one example of how the US is now the object of loathing by civilized peoples across the world:

Your leaders, followed by our own duplictious Prime Minister at the time, Blair, embarked on a devious plan to attack Iraq on known falsehoods fed to our separate populations.The aim: to secure the oil of Iraq for yourselves, to strategically postion yourselves in the Middle East permanently and to pursue aggressive policies designed to achieve dominance for your own corporatist supporters

You promised the Iraqi people liberty, freedom and democracy. Let me suggest, madam, that instead the men, women and children of that country (once the seat of civilizations and knowledge of the highest degree) are now tenfold worse-off than they were under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein. The actions of Bush and his patrons and champions of the New American Century have caused collective psychosis and despair to a whole Nation. Responsibility for the the death of some 1 million people rests at the entrance to the White House. Bush, Cheyney and Blair deserve - in the minds of countless millions of people on this planet - to be arrrested and arraigned at the International Courts . They, jointly and severally are culpable of heinous crimes against humanity.

Many many here and millions more in your own country are demanding the impeachment of your President and others who are guilty of high crimes and misdemeanours. Why won't you act to initiate that process?

A previous President was so impeached for what was, (in comparison to the derisive way the White House treats your own Constitution and the assaults upon your civil liberties) the antics of a high school boy.

The acts of your Blackwater contractors speak memories of the German SS. Why won't you act to impeach, Ms Pelosi?

The lies and deception employed by your executive and ours in 2003 stand forever as exhibits of a deliberate confidence trick.Had the actions taken by your President been carried out by any other world leader, you, your country and your political machine would have been demanding an end to such infamous acts; you would have threatened offensive action against them.

Your country's flag flies with the blood of its own brave dead splattered, irremovably, upon it. The ground beneath, a river of Iraqi blood gushing to a torrent. All the result of aggression carried out with complete disregard humane considerations. Why won't you institute proceedings for impeachment, Ms Pelosi

Be sure - your once great nation, once the hope of oppressed people's everywhere stands to be feared but never loved again.

We are all watching with apprehension now to see if your President and his cohorts will, as many predict, unleash more evil with an attack on Iran.

Then, of course, martial law and the end of the American Dream and the beginning of the 100 year Nightmare.

I invite you to visit www.myspace.com/antiwarprotests and note especially 1. Just another Bloody Day and , 2. In the Name of the State.

Yours

Roger Antony Carter
United Kingdom

clarity June 19th, 2008 3:19 pm

Thank God! A post that makes sense.

MollyJ June 19th, 2008 5:49 pm

I'd bet that they both agree with most of the positions you mention. They are just telling the reality of the situation as they see it. Probably don't disagree with you conclusions, except that they know it won't happen.Not going to happen. And I'll be happy top bet money on it.

Step up boy's and answer the lady please.

If the Democrats won't nominate someone I want to vote for, I hope they do lose.

Daniel David and Clarity, I'm just curious.

Do you think that GWB and CHeney have taken the United States in a horrible direction? Moving the country away from a democracy, making the government a cash cow for corporate buddies (no bid contracts, etc), leading us to war on completely false grounds, invading a country that had done nothing to us, rescinding habeus corpus, generalizing extra-ordinary rendition in an unprecedented way, and last but not least and more egregiously, supporting and allowing torture of detainees?

If you agree with even a few of those items, just what is it that you think would deter future president's from doing this again? If not impeachment, then what?

When I finished reading _Shock Doctrine_ by Naomi Klein she talks about how so many people who brought their countries to disastrous ruin are FINALLY being brought to justice--Pinochet and others were mentioned by her. The reason it took so long is because the countries often had to claw their way back from disastrous ruin and loss of their democracy to get to this point FINALLY.

I think many of us here deplore what Bush and Cheney have done with the absolute complicity of the congress. I think what you tolerate, you get more of. If we tolerate this gross erosion of the Constitution we will see more of it.

So the _WHY_ of impeachment is because we must. We must, to deter the erosion of the Constitution. We must do it to show that America can recognize the desperate situation it is in and move to correct it. It might not work. This is true. The government is at a very dangerous point in its' existence--very, very unstable. But to sit back and do nothing absolutely guarantees that Constitution will continue to be totally eroded.

For impeachment to work, with a congress so overtaken by lassitude, it has to be a loud resounding mandate from the people. Congressional people facing re-election have to know that this time, the next time around, they may NOT be re-electable if they are not willing to deal with this remarkable erosion of the constitution. I do not think it is too late to start impeachment. It clearly would not come to fruition before the end of his term. But the investigation needs to start. If the investigation shows what many of us think it will show, perhaps the situation is best resolved in the courts. Vincent Bugliosis suggests bringing Bush to trial for murder. There is the International Criminal Court, too.

I read the folks above who say, "scrap it and start over." Well, we cannot say that we won't have to. But when government is totally destabilized and absent you could get the horrible power vaccuum that has been so evident in Iraq. (That vaccum is often filled by the folks with the biggest guns--Blackwater has a leg up on that.) I'd rather not. I'd rather improve what we have, if we can.

But I would like to hear from both of you if you have a sense of the government being in a very dangerous situation or do you think this is just business as usual. If you think it is the latter, I understand your attitude. If you have a higher degree of alarm, what do you think will halt the erosion of the constitution? What needs to happen so that we won't get "more of the same" if not impeachment.

"Given a Congress that will not perform its sworn duty, a military coup may be our only hope."

And I approve that message.

dogfight sez: "If this administration tries to pull off some kind of political coup, most everyone I know in my neck of the woods is ready to step into the streets with dry powder."

Hope this doesn't come as a shock, but that bus left the station in 2000.

The reich's coup was then codified — and the Reichstag and press brought on board — in the fall of 2002 through the domestic shock-and-awe of the Help America Vote Republican Permanently Act, the anthraxing of Leahy and Daschle, the Diebolding of Cleland and the killing of Wellstone.
Since then the SS has not needed to silence congressional critics, because so so few remain after their brethren were cowed by fear, marginalized by the Ministry of Propaganda or "privatized" by the Oligarchs.

Your friends and their dry powder are possessions of the empire now, not citizens of a democracy.

Frank: You have lovely dreams.

Impeachment is really not the answer to what has occurred. But the answer was given in a previous post:

* Arrest - for war crimes
* Try - in a Special War Crimes Tribunal
* Convict
* Punish severely - life at hard labor

The biggest problem is that our Constitution provides no mechanism or auithority for making the arrest and creating a war crimes tribunal to try a president for war crimes.

OTOH, if Bush and Cheney can usurp power, so can our military.

Given a Congress that will not perform its sworn duty, a military coup may be our only hope.

I forgot by the time I got to the bottom of everyones Posts, whomever said that the democrats voted to bury Impeachment and McGovern was wrong. No he was correct. They, most of the Democrats, voted Yea because that is how it gets referred to the Full Committee on the Judiciary to enable them to vote. If they said Nay it would never have been referred to the Judiciary.
I'm just sayin'....

Just press the right lever on Election Day like a good doggie and everything will be better!

Personally I do not support the process of impeachment. Arrest by a platoon of Marines and an airplane ride to the Hague, now THAT I support. Much cheaper, as well.

Veteran '66-68

"But until you have a chance to elect someone and make a difference you will just be helping to elect another Republican. As far as I'm concerned a vote for Nadar in 2000 was a vote for Bush, no differnce- and all those who helped elect him and kept Gore from office ought to rightly blame their own idiocy for the last 8 years."

Bull squat. Democrats and Republican: two peas in a corporate pod. And with statements like the one above ALL YOU WILL GET is more votes for Nader. So please continue. Run Ralph, Run!

The guy who lost the election in 2000 to a no brain from Texas was Al Gore. And this Democrats is what you refuse to accept. That your "intellectual" Al Gore could not even beat pea brain G.W. in Gore's or Clinton's home state. So spare us the "Wah wah! Nader did it" nonsense. YOUR CANDIDATE BLEW IT! And like G.W. and the Republicans, Democrats cannot take responsibility for their own failures, the biggest of which is not being able to end the illegal war which they VOTED FOR! Democrats and Republicans alike: GUILTY OF WAR CRIMES! GUILTY OF TORTURE! GUILTY OF EXTREME RENDITION! GUILTY OF SPYING AND LYING! GUILTY OF LETTING BUSHCO GET AWAY WITH SHREDDING THE CONSTITUTION!

And by the way, 300,000 plus Democrats n Florida in 2000 VOTED FOR BUSH! So them democrats "helped elect him [Bush] and kept Gore from office" and you are right, you "ought to rightly blame their own idiocy for the last 8 years."

YOU Democrats LOST the White House! Not Nader. And this crap is why millions of us former Democrats spit your Party. Ptuwee.

The Edmonds interview linked above and here is a pretty damning indictment of the Congressional Democrats and makes Daniel David's argument that a Democrat president and Congress will lead to substantive change patently false. Indeed, the interview confirms the continuity of policy and corruption over the past two administrations, and the threads that connect them back to the CIA's inception.

The only conclusion I can arrive at is the absolute need to totally disolve the federal governmenet--ALL OF IT--and start anew. And because there's so much money and power at stake, a Revolutionary War is the only method that will arrive at the needed result.

I'd like to see a reporter ask just 3 simple questions regarding an attack on Iran. Mr. President, how would you prevent oil from skyrocketing even further than what it already has,thus officially plunging our economy into depression. How do you stop the Shiites in Iraq from siding with Iran,& tearing apart whatever modest achievements this administration claims to have accomplished. What's your plan, Mr. President should Russia, and or China decide to involve themselves in an Iranian conflict?

Thank you, "clarity", for CLARITY and kind words. But be warned, saying anything here (ever) to agree with Daniel David is very unpopular with the clique of "mean girls" (or whatever this bunch).

clarity (3:19 pm), who thinks just like DD, claims "Daniel David is the only poster to make any sense. .... An(d) by the way, all you so called lovers of our COnstitution- in this country and under our Constition Bush is not a criminal until he is tried and convicted by a court of law. Don't like it- move or at least stop pretending like you give a hoot for our Constitution."

- In other words, Mr. clarity is telling everyone who favors impeachment to "love it or leave it." (For those of you not old enough to know this, that very phrase was what rightwingers regularly hurled against antiwar protestors during the Vietnam era.)

In using a "Love it or Leave it" argument, Mr clarity reveals his "inner rightwinger." In the same way, DD's inner rightwinger is evident, in his argument that government accountability should be forgotten about, if it in any way might interfere with electing Democrats.

I've long maintained that whenever you scratch a loyal Democrat, you'll find an authoritarian, just below the surface. Both of these examples confirm that theory.

I GIVE UP...

The people in north eastern Wisconsin have got to be to most politcally stupid I have ever met.

I just attempted to explain the SCOTUS decison basically restoring Habeas Corpus to some co-workers. Without exception their eyes glazed over and they just started railing on me about how bad Obama is.

I have had it. Hear me Amerika. You stultified victims of this Fascist government are on your own. I have sounded the alarm, given you advice on how to prepare yourself for the coming crises and all I got was derison.

I am finished. No more participation on CD or anywhere. I am going to hoard my little stash of beans, rice, and water till someone comes and kills me for it. No more warning, no more advice, no more participation. I am done. Withdrawn consent, and withdrawn from society. Have fun kids.

PIECES O
PEACE PO

:

PLEASE!
REPEAT:
PEACE -
IMPEACH
PEACE -
IMPEACH

PATRIOT
PARROT!

WARNING
WARRING
WARMING

HIGHCRIMES
ILLEGALWAR
WAR CRIMES
GENOCIDE &
PROFITEARS
TORTURE AT
GUANTANAMO
TWO STOLEN
SELECTIONS
MISLEADING
FALSELYING
FALSIFYING
DOCUMEANTS
DESTROYING
TWINTOWERS
BILLRIGHTS
EVERYTHING
EVERYWHERE
SPYING BUT
FUCKING UP
NEEDS HERE
HEALTHCARE
LIVINGWAGE
GLOBALWARM
NEWARLEANS
AIDSCRISIS
CIVILRITES
HUMANRITES
Y IMPEACH?
& IMPRISON
THE REASON
IS TREASON

LIBERATED?!
OBLITERATED

BROKENARROW
BROKEN AIRO

MASTERPIECE
MASTERPEACE

CORPORATIONS
GOVERNATIONS

BEWARE OF WAR:
WAR IS MURDER!
WAR IS TORTURE
WAR IS TERROR!

AMERIKKKA IS A
SERIAL KILLER!

PUT LOVE OUT &
GET LOVE BACK!
IMAGINE - THAT

YOUR TAXES PAID
FOR TERROR ATAX

PAID SOLDIERS -
NO FUCKING BUSH
AT YOUR FUNERAL
YOU'LL GET LAID

PATRIARCHENEMY:
TORTURECHAMBERS
CHAINEDTOCHENEY

THE SECRET'S OUT
IN THE ALL-WHITE
FRATERNITY HOUSE

A REAL LEADER IS
LOVE, OF & ABOVE

REPARATIONS FOR:
NATIVE AMERICANS
AFRICANAMERICANS
POOR AMERICANS &
FOREIGN NATIONS!

THE POLICE STATE
BLACKWATERGATE -
TORTURETAPEGATE:
CHECKMATE HATE -
WORLD CAN'T WAIT

GOD DAMN THEY ARE
WORSE THAN SADDAM

SADDAM PLAND TO BAG
BUSH'S BIG BAD DAD;
GRABD TO ABU GHRAIB
BAGS ON THEIR HEADS

FREEDOM FOR SOME IS
NOT FREEDOM FOR ALL
IS NOT FREEDOM FROM
URANIUM & PLUTONIUM
WORKING FOR THE MAN
WHO MISEDUCATED YOU
DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB

I SAY THE HARMY NAY
AIRFARCE MARYANNES!

DON'T SAY MISLED OR
THAT THOUSANDS DIES
SAY LIED & GENOCIDE

TODAY'S HOT FLAVOR -
IMPEACHMINT I SCREAM

DJ KUCINICH SCRATCHES
THE PEACEIMPEACH ITCH

IS PEACE JUST A WORD?
REAL PEACE TAKES WORK

WHERE WERE U 9-11-2/?
COMEPLANE--COMEPLANES
THEN ANTHRAX CAME FOR
SOME MORE HORROR ATAX
AMBUSHWACKS LIE WRACK
WARDEADDEBTOR INSTEAD
OF AVIATION TRUSTFUND
AND HIGHWAY TRUSTFUND
LESS POINTLESS ARROWS
BUY THE BULLET TRAINS
CRISSCROSS WANDERLAND
ON BRAND NEW TRAX AND
LIKE POST OFFICE MAIL
RE-FUND AMTRAK'S SAIL

ZZZTV.. ABC BS NBCNEND
AND FOX FUX THE FACTS.

SOLDIERS CAN'T SAVE US
THEY NEED TO BE SAVED.

THE SLOWEST OF THE LOW
IN THE HIGHEST OFFICE!

YOU ADOPT AN ABANDONED
MAN FROM ANOTHER LAND.

OUR BABIES, CATS & DOGS
ARE SLEEPY FOR PEACE...
EVERYTHING WE DO IS FOR
PEACE: P. P.. FOR PEACE
WE SHALL KILL THEIR WAR
CAPITAL ON CAPITOL HILL

THE TRUTH TRUMPS TROOPS
THE TRUTH TRUMPS TROOPS

WITHOUT ANYTHING TO EAT
MANY PAST & FUTURE VETS
HOMELESS ON THE STREETS

THEIR TERMINADERS SHALL
BE THE UNREASONABLE MEN
& WOMEN LIKE NADER & ME

SPEAKER OF THE HOUSEWIFE
MISSSPEAKER OF THE HOUSE
OF COURSE IMPEACHMENT IS
ALWAYS ON THE TABLE DEAR
U MEANT THAT THEIR GOOSE
WASN'T COOKED. NOT IT IS

A MAN WITH ONE HAND LEFT
HOLDING AN "ARM-Y?" SIGN

IN THIS SAME SEX MARRIAGE
DICK AND BUSH ARE MARRIED
TO EVERY SINGLE DEAD FUCK

READ BETWEEN THE PIPELINES
OILIGARCHY IS A DEMOCKERY!

I'M NOT A BUSH-HATER: HE'S
MERELY THE LATEST DICTATOR

STILL UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED -
ALL OIL BAD CAR KARMA GREED

NO N.O. NOW WE'VE SEEN POUR
NEW ORLEANS PARISHES PERISH

TRULY "UNITED NATIONS" WOULD
AT ONCE DESTROY ALL WEAPONS.

THE NEW NINA SIMONES SHOUT -
EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT AFGHAN
EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT IRAQ -
EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT IRAN -
AND EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT US
AMERIKKKA GODDAMN - GET OUT!

UNLIKE EUROPE WITH THE NAZIS
WE CAN'T SEE WHAT'S OVERSEAS

THROW ROTTEN TOMATOES - THEN
IMPEACH AND IMPEAR THEM WITH
EACH AND EVERY FUCKING FRUIT

TODAY IS NOT PRESIDENT'S DAY!
TODAY IS NOT WASHINGTON'S DAY
TODAY IS WE-THE PEOPLE'S-DAY!

IF WE MEAN TO GET IMPEACHMENT
WE SHOULD DEMAND IMPRISONMENT

UNIFORMED FACING WAR'S HORROR
FIND THEIR OWN FACES DEFORMED

SELF-EVIDENT A KING CAN'T BE A
PRESIDENT - ONLY A PREDICAMENT

THE PEOPLE HAVE THE PERMISSION
TO CREATE A NEW GOVERNMENT AND
ABOLISH AND NON-REPRESENTATIVE
HOUSE SENATE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
REPUBLICRATS DEBATE COMMISSION

MEDIOCRE MEDIA THE PRES'S PRESS
M.I.A. AND MESOPOTAMIA'S A MESS

POETIC JUSTICE IS THIS RESIDENT
IN PRISON ON DEATH ROW IN TAXES

DOWN GOES THE AIRPLANE INDUSTRY
COULD AMTRAK BE ALL IT COULD BE
I THINK IT CAN - I THINK IT CAN
STEAL FUNDING FROM THE MILITARY

THE TWIN TOWERS DOUBLE-FUCK-YOU
WASHINGTON'S MONUMENTAL BIGDICK
A PENTAGRAM WITH MISSING PIECES
LEAVES ONLY AN INCOMPLETE PEACE

A WISER FOWL OF ANOTHER FEATHER:
THE INTERNATIONAL GREAT GREY OWL
OVERSEES & SINGS NO TRESPASSING!

TRADE THIS WHITE-WASHINGTON HOUSE
FOR A MULTICOLORED PLACE OF PEACE

FORMER RUNNING MATE SELLS WAR LIES
AS GORE WINS THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

WE WECOME YOU TO THE NEW OFF-WHITE
BLACK BROWN RED YELLOW GREEN PARTY

MARCHED IN MARCH ON THE GOING GOING
PENTAGON PRETTY-PENNY SPENDING GONE

HURRICANE NINA & HURRICANE LORRAINE
WOULD HAVE CLEANED THE WHITE HOUSES
THAT LET KATRINA DROWN NEW ORLEANS.

DO A ROBINHOOD ON THE CORPORATIONS:
TAKE FROM THE CORP GIVE TO THE POOR
VOTE MANY TIMES EVERY DAY BY BUYING
FROM LOCAL & INDEPENDENT MERCHANTS:
NOT MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE -
REDUCE - REUSE - RECYCLE - RESTORE!

EVERYTIME THEY INTERRUPT OUR PEACE -
THEY'LL GET A HUNDRED INTERRUPTIONS.
EVERYTIME A JESUS GANDHI KIND DIES -
A HUNDRED THOUSAND MORE WILL BE BORN

IF NATURE'S FIRST GREEN IS GOLD, THEN
THE GREEN PARTY HOLDS THE GOLDEN RULE

THE STATUE OF FRIENDSHIP TO FRANCE SAYS
DON'T MISS LIBERTY ME WHEN YOR NOT FREE

PEACE IS THE GODDESS-MOTHERS' CUPS OF WATER
WHICH POUR OUT THE GODFATHERS' RAGING FIRES

YOU DON'T NEED A WEATHERMAN TO TELL THE WEATHER
THERE'S NOT TIME TO TALK ABOUT IF IT'S WHATEVER
OR WHETHER WE SHOULD STOP WAR MAKE PEACE BEFORE
WARMING DROWNS US IN STORMS TO REALLY CRY ABOUT

THE DECLARATION OF INTERDEPENDENCE - THE UNITED NATIONS
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS SURE BEATS A DEAD
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND CONSTITUTION UNAMENDEAD

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO LISTEN TO? BUSH-CHENEY CORPORATE C.E.O.'S? OR
JESUS GANDHI KING X MARX GOLDMAN PARKS CHAVES THOREAU NADER HUGHES
LENNON LENNOX ONO BAEZ SMITH DIFRANCO SAINTE-MARIE MITCHELL SIMONE

..

"PIECES O PEACE PO"
bi Gg Re & friends

part 1 (A side)
www.Gg-Re.org/POS/2002-2020/PIECES-O-PEACE-PO-1.pdf

part 2 (B side)
www.Gg-Re.org/POS/2002-2020/PIECES-O-PEACE-PO-2.pdf

Mr.McGovern evidently cannot escape his terminology - it is not a "mistaken war." It was intentional and an immoral invasion and destruction of an innocent nation. I had a word before "terminlogy" - are certain words [not vulgar] deleted by someone or something?

There is no such thing as divine justice. This is a fairy tale conjured to keep the common people from acting on their outrage at injustice and taking matters into their own hands.

Our Founding Fathers weren't religious men (the leading ones, that is). So they wrote into the Constitution a simple and legal means to rectify the situation of an elected representative of the people who committed treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. That is impeachment.

If they thought waiting for the next election would be enough, they wouldn't have put impeachment into the Constitution.

And, DD, honestly, do you really think just ennumerating the crimes of the Bush junta and letting people discuss them is going to stop the looting, murder and spying? That is ridiculous. Bush himself joked that one section of the economy of the US that is booming is books pointing out his failings. 70% of the people in this country know that Bush is a liar and an idiot. Now we want something done about it!

Too bad for the 2,000,000+ people in prison in this country that the prosecutors of ordinary Americans don't take the attitude that it's too much trouble to hold people accountable for their crimes.

Daniel David is the only poster to make any sense. In case any of you are politically challenged and suffer from intellect disorder:

Barring any new discoveries or revelations President Bush will not be impeached now or ever. While he will face disgrace as one of the worst Presidents of all time he will never be tried or any of that other silly nonsense. Any by the way, all you so called lovers of our COnstitution- in this country and under our Constition Bush is not a criminal until he is tried and convicted by a court of law. Don't like it- move or at least stop pretending like you give a hoot for our Constitution.

A move to impeach with 0 chance of success will be unpopular with a public already mad at Congress for wasting too much time and not getting the peoples business done. The politicians and Daniel David understand this. It intrigues me that so many here have such stupendous arrogance as to call all those others idiots, etc. Pounding furiously on their keys in rightous narcisstic anger. You guys really are out of touch with reality- and sitting in your basements or whatever that's just fine- the profeessional politicians on the other hand have a duty and an obligation to work for change that can make a difference in the real world.

If you want to work for a progressive 3rd party than by all means get to it- I feel it would be a great thing. But until you have a chance to elect someone and make a difference you will just be helping to elect another Republican. As far as I'm concerned a vote for Nadar in 2000 was a vote for Bush, no differnce- and all those who helped elect him and kept Gore from office ought to rightly blame their own idiocy for the last 8 years.

Reality folks- the rest of the country isn't stupid, they just think your more extreme positions are, and this counters any attempt at real change.