Rethinking ‘War Hero’
“624787.” In his first national campaign ad for president, Sen. John McCain is shown reciting his rank and serial number as he lies in a Vietnamese hospital bed as a prisoner of war. The ad describes him as “a real hero.”
Let’s be clear: Senator McCain is running for president as a war hero who plans to win the campaign based on character and honor.
On the surface, it seems churlish to critique the idea of a war hero. And criticizing a tribute to courageous and self-sacrificing soldiers would be disrespectful.
But inextricably tied to the idea of the war hero for president is a discussion that goes beyond individual soldiers or prisoners of war, such as Mr. McCain, to the wars they fight and what their role in the war says about their moral merits as national leaders. This turns out to be surprisingly problematic.
We need to distinguish the war hero from the war. Fixed ideas about war heroes get into what we call “morality wars,” crucial struggles about which values should prevail, who should be admired and for what qualities.
When we call Mr. McCain a war hero, we engage in moral discourse about the Vietnam War - and now, Iraq. We also give Mr. McCain - currently the country’s most celebrated war hero - the ultimate political weapon: power by virtue of heroism and the ability to discredit opponents as weak or unpatriotic.
The public has treated Mr. McCain’s record in Vietnam and his status as a war hero as something unchangeable. But placing his sacrifice beyond the pale of criticism also implicitly places the cause he served beyond the pale, and that hushes important dialogue.
Mr. McCain’s heroism stems entirely from Vietnam. Mr. McCain was brave in captivity, but he and his fellow pilots dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all those dropped in World War II, leading to the conclusion that “we had to destroy Vietnam in order to save it.”
He did not acknowledge the war itself as immoral. If he had engaged in such “straight talk” about the war, or if we had a more enlightened concept of heroism, he might not be getting so close to becoming the next president.
This language of war heroism is used unfairly to confuse unjust wars and their architects with the honor of brave soldiers. By promoting the idea that Vietnam was an honorable war and denigrating anti-war Democrats as too weak to “stay the course,” Richard Nixon won the presidency in 1968. He then kept the war going for another five futile years.
Playing the war hero card has long been a political strategy to elect Republicans, legitimize imperial wars and portray Democrats and peace activists as weak, cowardly or traitorous. Sen. John Kerry, also a courageous soldier in Vietnam, was “Swift-boated” as a traitor because he became a peace activist.
Republicans even did the same to Daniel Ellsberg, a real hero of the Vietnam era. Mr. Ellsberg was a war planner who turned against the war and in 1971 released to The New York Times the “Pentagon Papers,” the military’s internal and damning history of the war. But as there are no peace heroes in the American moral discourse, President Nixon tried to indict him, and many still brand him as a traitor.
Most of the presidents in the decades after the Civil War were Republicans, the majority of them generals who ran as war heroes. In the 20th century, Republicans continued to serve up war hero candidates such as Theodore Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower and George H.W. Bush. And now we have John McCain.
If the Democrats are to win elections in the 21st century, the key is to finally engage in straight talk about war and war heroes.
First, they must renounce the morality of militarism. Second, they must be clear that the architects of unjust wars are not honorable or heroic but immoral moralists, those who wage evil in the name of good. Third, they must create a new language of heroism. Brave soldiers in just and unjust wars may be heroes, if we refer purely to personal courage and sacrifice in battle. But it is critical that we recognize that those who oppose dishonorable wars are also heroes. Surely, their courage should also qualify as a character virtue for the highest office in the land.
The peace hero - even more than the war hero - should be the ultimate moral force in the world we now inhabit.
Charles Derber and Yale Magrass are coauthors of “Morality Wars: How Empires, the Born Again, and the Politically Correct Do Evil in the Name of Good.” This article originally appeared in The Christian Science Monitor.
Copyright © 2008, The Baltimore Sun
We should ask why McCain is chairman of International Republican Institute www.iri.org which has been implicated in theoverthrow ofAstride and an attempt to overthrow Chavez among other things.
McCain is just another war monger.
What we need are anti war heroes like: Jesus, Gandhi, King,ect.ect.ect.
But there is so much more: he was one of the “Keating 5″. I’m convinced that Hillary Clinton would bring up all of the character flaws of McCain and Obama won’t do it. Another reason why I support her and not him. He IS going to run on his alleged good character! He is vulnerable here in myriad ways. Will he be called on it loudly and clearly?? I say not a chance if Obama is the democratic nominee, and other parties aren’t allowed into the debates!
Although I hope the Democrats will address the Keating Five, I fear they won’t because the other four were Democrats.
Compare this to John Kerry’s Vietnam record and how the media treated his service. There is nothing heroic about getting shot down, as if it’s a choice. John Kerry pulled a fellow soldier out of the water while being shot at by the VC. I think we can agree this fits our general definition of a heroic act. What is heroic about being a POW? Self preservation is hardwired, not heroic.
Whoa! Don’t be so fast to say McCain was brave as a POW. Check out Doug Valenti’s report in href=”http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html”>Counterpunch before making such a comment.
It would appear that McCain actually caved in to his captors after only a couple of hours of intense grilling, and that his claim of heroism is pretty much made up.
I agree though, that this militaristic country is way to fast to call everyone who fires guns in uniform a “hero.”
If you read “Road from ar Ramadi: The Private Rebellion of Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia, an Iraq War Memoir” by Camilio Mejia (Haymarket Books 2007/2008), you will quickly understand that what our soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen and women are being ordered to do over there is anything but heroic. Indeed, much of it is war crimes, pure and simple, and the real heroes are those who say “No!”
DAve Lindorff
when, in contrast to the european media, the us msm talks so much of ‘heroes”heroism’ and their need, it reminds me of the following quote (do not remember who to ascribe it to)
happy the land with many heroes - happier still the land that needs no heroes.
What is needed to “rethink” war hero is for every member from such churches as Baptist, Nazarene, Assembly of God, Mennonite, Bible Church, Lutheran (Missouri and Wisconsin Synods), Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, independent charismatics and others to all get informed and get real about John McCain—firmly reaching a logical (from their faith and doctrine) conclusion.
THERE IS NO WAY UNDER HEAVEN THAT GOD IS CALLING A FORMER SKIRT CHASER AND CURRENT BEER PROFITEER TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. CAN’T HAPPEN. ISN’T HAPPENING. THE GOD OF THE CHURCHES IS NOT IN IT. THE VOTERS OF THE CHURCHES MUST NOT BE “IN IT” EITHER.
This is all that is needed to defeat John McCain. And such a defeat needs to occur for all the reasons progressives would recommend ODDLY COINCIDING WITH all the reasons that the most conservative of churchgoers can also recognize and recommend—IF THEY ARE INFORMED about “billions of beers over 25 years”. (Hey, even a little rhyme. Except, of course, this is no joke and not funny. The stakes are very high for everyone and corporations are for McCain. We need liberal PEOPLE AND conservative PEOPLE banding together for a change and defeating the corporate candidate.)
Daniel__ I cannot see that the church people did us much good in the 2004 election as they went for Bush. If God elected Bush, he must really be pleased to have McWar coming on strong.
Personally, I wish we could just judge the people on their own merits and what they stand for, instead of mixing up religion with our governing system. It is tiresome to get politics when attending church, and then get religion when listening to the political news, and it does not seem to be working well, as the last eight years have shown.
Kernel,
I can assure you that the church people are going to vote, and there are A LOT of them. Enough to swing the election.
The key is to have them thinking beer man, not war hero.
Ignore them, let them be sold right-spin lies, and you lose again. Religion is important. McCain is on the wrong side of REAL conservatives—but they must be told.
Heroes are the ones who have the courage to refuse any orders to kill women and children. McCain would be a disaster for all progressives.
The excellent Mr. Lindorff beat me to it. I’m waiting for my print copy of CounterPunch to arrive to read it, but Mr. Cockburn’s column on that site that I read this weekend makes it plain what the article about McCain is going to say.
It would appear that instead of the myth of a valiant war hero that instead officer McCain was providing military information and collaborating statements to the North Vietnamese in exchange for favorable treatment.
McCain is far from being a hero of the Vietnam Conflict. He was such a screw up that he managed to kill over 125 of the crew members of the USS Forrestal because he was such a show-off and trying a “wet” takeoff. That was only 1 of 5 military planes which he managed to destroy! What a guy. Without the protection of his dad and granddad don’t you think he’d have been tried by a court-martial? This guy is dangerous. Talk about untreated PTSD…
How come war criminal can become war hero?
US needs to wake up and understand that bombing civilian targets from 30.000 feet is not heroism, that is WAR CRIME.
Jesus … doesn’t Daniel David know that most ‘church people’ also drink beer. Talk about a ridiculous talking point spammed beyond all possible reason!
Besides, who are ‘the chuch people’? Is that the family of the SNL Church Lady?
Of course, what’s amazing about the Democrats is this. Just below a comment where the facts that would devastate McCain’s “War Hero” claim are mentioned, there’s the democrat sycophant diverting attention off on to this stupid beer distributorship issue. Is the goal to divert attention from the real issues in McCain’s past?
Certainly, the Dems avoid at all cost the direct attacks on McCain’s war hero status that would bear fruit. Ie, that is that McCain was more ‘war criminal’ than ‘war hero’. The Dems won’t go near that one. Because, just like in almost all other issues, the Dems really support the same agenda as the Republicans. That is one of building the American Empire and fighting these wars along the way.
McCain was a ‘war criminal’ fighting a war that was started by Democratic Presidents and fully funded and authorized by a Democratic Congress. I’m not sure exactly when McCain was flying his missions, but its very likely that he’s precise acts as a war criminal in bombing civilian targets was in following the orders established by a Democratic President acting as Commander-in-Chief.
So, the Dems won’t go near calling McCain a ‘war criminal’. Its only after they pass up the direct and obvious attack that they keep bringing up this ridiculous beer distributorship issue.
it would be nice if more americans were able to see that there are such people as peace heroes, but war heroes are always going to have the edge just because they put their lives on the line.
in the article, it was stated: “by promoting that vietnam was an honorable war and denigrating anti-war democrats as too weak to stay the course, richard nixon won the presidency in 1968.” pretty dubious history, imho. trick ran on a so-called secret plan to end the war. most of us who had caught his act during the 50’s and 60’s were, of course, sceptical.
one factor that progressives, during the country’s right-ward turn, have not given enuf attention to is the one of race. after signing the mid-sixties civil rights legislation, lbj said the democrats had probably just lost political power for the next 30 years. america’s 20th century experiment in social democracy, the new deal, had as part of its coalition the segregationist south. i know it’s hard to see how the rise of the right could be a good thing, but by sloughing off the segregationist south and hopefully building a more just coalition, we’ll be able to see this all as part of a positive long-term transformation.
Is there such a thing as “War Hero”? Seems like a paradox to me.
Take a deeper look into McCain’s hostage situation. There are reports that McCain used his contacts to hook himself up with a nice apartment and hookers during his hostage years, while leaving his buddies in the cold.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9b67gUm8sM
I’m not necessarily saying it’s true, but has ANYONE in the media even investigated these claims? Why not?
I second what Dave Lindorff posted. Yesterday on another thread, I pointed out the article he referenced on Counterpunch about McCain. Turns out McCain is not so much of a war hero. The Straight Talk Express has not exactly been driving in a straight line down the road. It has been fishtailing and is headed for the ditch.
Johny Bomb Bomb is anything but a straight talker.
The frame for the election of Mcinsane is that the USA is at war against International Terrorism.
War requires a seasoned Commander-in-Chief to conduct this war. Mcinsane is a war hero, ergo Mc is the logical choice for president. Gotta destroy this arguement to stop this nutcase.
Daniel David__My point was that it is no use warrying about the religious people and how they vote. The right wing findamentalists are a lost cause, as the GOP party is also the GOD party in their view and that is not likely to change.
The religious voters that are left will do as many of the rest of us, support the candidate on their merit and platform. We need to get that point across to people and not spend time courting votes from those who will not listen to reason.
Hardly a hero! The word is so abused and over applied these days. Going to war, especially a war of choice, does not make heros, only victims.
Touche, Paul Revere!
When we honor the peacekeepers the way we honor war fighters, then we’ll be an evolved nation.
War hero? How about war criminal!
We also have to get the “maverick” label debunked; the “straight talk express” thing, too. We need other parties in the debates in the fall to debunk the standard lies of both parties.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, science for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable an ignorable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.” Albert Einstein
t was a failure of citizenship of the American people that the Bush cabal was allowed to invade Iraq. Thus, any U.S. citizen who is not doing everything in their power to end this illegal and immoral occupation as quickly as possible is complicit with the war crimes being committed in Iraq on a daily basis.”: Dahr Jamail
WASHINGTON - Under pressure to meet combat needs, the Army and Marine Corps brought in significantly more recruits with felony convictions last year than in 2006, including some with manslaughter and sex crime convictions.
The Few. The Proud. The Manacled! Egad…
Apparently John McShame was on Hanoi radio so often he was known as the ‘P.O.W. Songbird’.
The last “war hero” to campaign for President was run out of town because he fought in a war (ie, medalled John Kerry).
Ain’t no pleasin’ some folk, especially when the GOP are pulling the media strings.
whatfools wrote: The Few. The Proud. The Manacled! Egad…
Well, it worked for “The Dirty Dozen”, so maybe it is not such a bad idea to send crims: We could start with the Current Resident, so he could make up for what he missed out on.
pundit wrote: The frame for the election of Mcinsane is that the USA is at war against International Terrorism.
War requires a seasoned Commander-in-Chief to conduct this war. Gotta destroy this arguement to stop this nutcase.
Pundit is right about the insanity of this logic.
There is no “war against terrorism” (or against drugs). Such actions cannot be dealt with militarily (as Iraq and the drug trade have proved). Police action is the only thing that will work.
Bleeech! Not sure if I want a cop as President either.
The only thing heroic about McCain is he participated in another of our idiotic imperialistic invasions and got himself tortured. Does this mean he has any military experience or judgment worth talking about? Obviously not! The only salient thing about him is his stupidity. Having favored one imperialistic invasion, he now favors another. A person like this should never be allowed anywhere near the White House.
McCain signed a document when he was POW that stated he was a war criminal. Yes, he was tortured (which should make him totally against torture…and unless he was telling the truth on this document, he should realize that torture doesn’t get at the truth..it gets said what someone wants said.)
Just because someone is deemed a war hero doesn’t necessarily make them fit to be president. I know lots of war heroes I wouldnt want for pres.
Remember the Manchurian Candidate–5+ years is enough of a long time to turn anyone into a compliant piece of putty in the hands of their “control agent” and otherwise quite normal in their behavior. As such, any POW ought to be forever banned from holding any public office.
Poet- The US military is ACTIVELY recruiting convicted VIOLENT felons as frontline combat troops.
So why shouldn’t an acknowledged war criminal with anger management issues be allowed to hold the nuclear launch codes?
We should know, instinctively by now, that anytime the mainstream media and both sides of the politcal aisle agree that anyone is a hero…we must remind ourselves that hard fought wisdom requires we simply apply the inverse and opposite. The term is useless except as a shibboleth to mystify and stake borders for who is in or out. Most of us, if not the vast majority, are out…and meant to be kept out. Since McCain has never been tried or convicted of war crimes, it is also useless to call him a war criminal…thus becoming yet another shibboleth. Simply ask the question again and again: how many civilians were killed in your multiple air raids over Vietnam…how many villages were decimated…how much livestock and agriculture was pulverized into ash: always turn the shibboleth of hero into an interrogation of deeds.
Kernel,
I do not readily concede that the right-wing fundamentalists are a “lost cause” at the voting booth.
They’re only lost if you let them keep “war hero” in their focus and do not present them with the truth that McCain is a hard-cussing, skirt-chasing opportunist who was first unfaithful with—then married a woman with a fleet of beer trucks and has been getting rich off the beer ever since.
MOST CHURCH ATTENDERS DO NOT EVEN KNOW.
As for COMarc and his endless cynical funmaking as above, He’s a good one to follow if you want to be saluting President John McCain. I honestly have come to think that promoting that result is his/her primary reason for being on this site. Take a good look at a bunch of his/her posts and see if you can reach any other conclusions. Knock the Dems to advantage the Rupugs. Honestly, what else is there?
for kara.korum: “happier…the land that needs no heroes” was said by Bertolt Brecht.
McCain, the man of a thousand faces
Remember when President Carter suggested that the USA have a Department of Peace?
Where is that sentiment now?
McCain is a war criminal, just like our troops in Iraq engaged in an illegal and immoral war of aggression. Sorry, I don’t have any respect whatsoever for any one of them.
If McCain was helping the Vietnamese forces win the war, that’s not a bad thing in itself. Of course, he’s in the same boat as George Bush, who didn’t go over there and bomb Vietnam. But I doubt in either case it was because they were against the American policy. Ellsberg was the brave one.
The whole mythology about war heroes was okay for WWII, I suppose, but imperialist wars are inherently criminal. How long will the bogus myth live on? How long will Americans be so smitten by the uniform?
Didn’t his father, a US Senator arrange for him to be released and sent home immediately after he was captured? He stayed of course, but with conditions no doubt. Hero? Ha. Manipulator for sure. See the movie “Hanoi Hilton”.
Daniel David__I have given up on trying to tell the right-wing fundamentalists anything about politics, as they do not want to know the truth. Quite a number of local religious people have insisted Bush was the right man for the job and that includes three preachers I spoke with. Most of them knew he was a drunk until his wife got him stopped, and everyone knew he had not completed his National Guard service, but they voted for him because he was “born again” and would protect us.
I have wondered what Bush`s opinion on “abstinence” was when he was a cheerleader in college. Now he thinks it is the proper behaviour for everyone in the world. When religious folks only care about what people do behind closed doors, it is a waste of time to talk to them. I have noticed very few of those people have ever publicly denounced the killing and destruction in Iraq as it is God`s will, yet they are pro-life.
Go figure. They could never support a “liberal” Democrat that is for defeat in the endless war on terror.
WHAT FOOLS said, “The Few. The Proud. The Manacled! Egad” Well, could be an end run around lethal injection. GALEN says they’re taking the violent felons who probably would resonate with war and the kind of lawless land that allows Blackwater “soldiers” to get away with rape and murder, as if there is no higher accounting yet to be delivered.
DAVE LINDORFF (Thanks for joining us here) says,”I agree though, that this militaristic country is way to fast to call everyone who fires guns in uniform a “hero.” This worship of violence, war and militarism is a modern depiction of the ancient worship of Mars, god of war; and because our national budget lays homage to these destructive ends it arguably reflects an ethos of MARS rules.
LOVER OF PEACE: I think you’re absolutely right about the PTSD… that he SAW torture and now advocates for it knowing US troops will end up at the mercy of those with CAUSE for vengeance, NOT a wise or sane policy! Plus it shows impossible hubris to the central tenet of most religions: what goes around, comes around.
John McCain was a Navy Jet Jockey. He returned from his missions and showered, wore clean clothes, ate great chow and crawled between clean sheets to sleep. He never had to take a watch, pick leeches off his skin, worry about foot rot, smell burning flesh, hear the cries of the wounded or remain constantly hypervigilant while on patrol. Most importantly, he didn’t perform any singularly valorous actions that saved lives or lead to victory on the battlefield. He would never have seen the face of the enemy nor gotten dirt under his fingernails if his butt hadn’t hit the ground. To call him a hero is to debase and devalue our true heroes, all our heroes - those who risk all for their comrades on the battlefield and those who risk their futures by refusing to condone the waste of life that is unjust war.
I’m interested in researching what MCain’s actual targets were when he was flying bombing runs over North Vietnam. Can anyone give me a lead?
Thanks in advance.
“Charles Derber and Yale Magrass are coauthors of “Morality Wars: How Empires, the Born Again, and the Politically Correct Do Evil in the Name of Good.” This article originally appeared in The Christian Science Monitor.” Doesn’t the word “good” in the Derber/Magrass title have too many “o’s” in it?
Also the question arises about just what kind of Vietnamese POW McCain was: Just how did he survive that experience?
John McCain = War Zero
I’m not saying that his survival of his imprisonment wasn’t a feat of the highest degree, but what is clearly missing from the dialogue is any recognition of what damage he was causing to the innocent Vietnamese civilians.
What we need are anti war heroes like: Jesus, Gandhi, King,ect.ect.ect.
Not a good idea they were all murdered.
The real heroes are those who stop war. Lt. Watada is a war hero. McCain is a war criminal.
Hoa binh
There is a place of peace and it is within each of us if we choose it.
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arkitekton April 21st, 2008 10:48 pm
“I’m interested in researching what MCain’s actual targets were when he was flying bombing runs over North Vietnam. Can anyone give me a lead?
Thanks in advance.”
The type of aircraft that McCain most likely flew off of a carrier was the A 4 Skyhawk. A single seat light weight fighter not built to carry heavy bomb loads. That being the case his assigned targets were most likely tactical. Fuel dumps, trucks and bicycles on the Ho Chi Minh trail, power stations, bridges, rail lines, ammuniton dumps, anti aircraft gun sites etc.
As for him indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians from thirty thousand feet, I don’t find that credible. Even the B-52’s that did bomb from that high level had specific targets of military value.
Lobo Gris
The invasion and occupation of Iraq was and is illegal. The orders to invade, from Bush, were illegal. Iraq had not attacked the United States. The military brass have chosen to follow these illegal orders. It follows that every order by any military officer related to the occupation of Iraq is illegal. Any individual in the military following any of these illegal orders is a war criminal. Its an unpleasant fact, but there are no American war heroes in Iraq, only war criminals. Yes, this is harsh. You got to have sympathy for that poor kid that just came home from Iraq blind and without legs. BUT. Had he not followed illegal orders, he would be whole. We need to do everything we can to stop our youth from being hoodwinked by recruiters into joining an organization of war criminals.
To purchase in bulk and to widely distribute, to young men and women considering enlistment, Smedley Butler’s “War is a Racket”, “Johnny Got His Gun” (author slips my mind at the moment, and Mark Twain’s war prayer (the title slips my mind at the moment) would be a patriotic act of the highest order.
Lobo Gris: “As for him indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians from thirty thousand feet, I don’t find that credible. Even the B-52’s that did bomb from that high level had specific targets of military value.”
It good to know that no civilians died during these A4 Skyhawk and B-52 bombings. I had not idea that b-52’s could drop hundreds of bombs with such precision. Its good to know that no civilians were anywhere near where any of these bombs hit.
Do the Germans or the Japanese have any “war heroes” from WWII?
If it weren’t for the fact that I wasn’t actually hurting anyone in aaaalllll those video games I played in the ’80’s, maybe I’d be a war hero too!
Big_Money asked: Do the Germans or the Japanese have any “war heroes” from WWII?
Absolutely. Indeed, there are many WW2 enemy commanders that are held in high regard by allied forces: In the air, there was Hans Rudel, Erich Hartmann, Adolf Galland, Wolfgang Falck, Hans Hant, Helmut Wick, etc, etc, etc and on the ground, I know of Erwin Rommel.
Like ANY military, the Germans and Japanese have their share of heroes and sickos.
Kernel,
You’re quite right that the “church” folks got willingly duped on GW Bush (twice). They forgave and admired him for giving up the bottle. That’s a harder sell and a further stretch to be applied this time to McCain.
McCain isn’t a recovering alcoholic. He and his wife are the perpetuators-for-profit of other alcoholics. Some church voters will find that reprehensible IF THEY KNOW.
I recently asked an old straight-arrow teetotaler friend if he had ever heard of Hensley & Company of Phoenix. He had no idea what I was talking about. I’ve come to believe that most of the church folks similarly don’t—-YET.
We do not need to presume to tell church people how to vote.
We just need to tag BILLIONS OF BEERS onto McCain and the rest will take care of itself.
kent shaw April 22nd, 2008 8:34 am
“It good to know that no civilians died during these A4 Skyhawk and B-52 bombings. I had not idea that b-52’s could drop hundreds of bombs with such precision. Its good to know that no civilians were anywhere near where any of these bombs hit.”
I can’t say that no civilians were ever hit. No one can. I am saying that no civilians were ever targeted or intentionally hit during bombing raids.
As for the B-52’s accuracy. It was very accurate for it’s time but let’s remember that that was over thirty years ago.
I can relate one personal experience that occurred during TET of 68 in which a military target was not bombed because of the presence of civilians.
The base I was at had a town at one end of the airfield and a forest named the tigers tail because of it’s shape at the other end. We had been under attack for eight days. The VC that were in the town decided to decided to relocate a portion of their forces from the town to the tigers tail. They surrounded themselves with civilians, against the civilians will, and marched them in broad daylight right down the road past the base from the village to the tigers tail. They were not bombed specifically because of the civilians present even though it cost us the lives of several good men on the base in the following days.
Lobo Gris
Wish I got on this earlier. Time for me to go nite nite but I’ll be brief.
Kent Shaw: ‘Johnny Got His Gun’ was written by the superb screenwriter, Dalton Trumbo, who was on the Hollywood “blacklist” for years. I read the novel after I came home from Vietnam (1966-67) and have mentioned the book on Common Dreams a number of times and feel it should be required reading by high school students and discussed in detail before being given a HS diploma.
Daga: Thanks for the quotes from two great men!
Since1492: Haven’t met Lt. Watada yet, but did meet his dad and step-mother at a fundraiser in San Francisco about a year and a half ago. I told Mr. Watada, (and I meant it from the bottom, the top, and the middle of my heart) that in my never humble opinion, “your son is the Audi Murphy of the officer corps in the 21st century. Without firing a shot! And I complimented him on a fine job raising a real, thinking man with moral principals. The old man is tops!
VDB; You betcha! Kucinich/Gravel…Gravel/Kucinich…should have been the dream ticket, eh?
WTF: Not to give violence glamour, but even Henry Miller said that after two world wars, the French admired the Germans on the battlefield, and James Jones ‘From Here To Eternity’ fame said the British admired the German Army on the battlefield. For that matter, my father (US ARMY) admired the Brithish soldiers he served with in the North African campaign for their bravery on the battlefield. Klaus Von Stauffenberg was my favorite hero of WW2. By 1936, three years after the nazis took over Germany, the highly educated Colonel started studying on how to stage a coup de’ etat. He saw what the monster with the mustache was capable of and how Germany would be destroyed under the Reichsfuher’s guidance. Nobody really knew who to trust as the Gestapo infiltrated almost everything. By 1944, after losing about 4,000,000 master race folks, (military and civillian) the tight-knit group or should I say “the coalition of the willing” initiated the game plan with Von Stauffenberg carrying the briefcase with the bomb which was supposed to send Hitler to the next plane of existence. The Colonel and possibly 2000 Aryan “supermen”involved in the plot to save their homeland were executed, and you CD scholars either know or can research the results. I’m rambbling again. Time for the “make love, not war,” crowd to re-appear. The “no blood for oil,” hasn’t worked.
Goodnight, comrades.