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TechnoratiNo Matter Who Is President of Iran, They Would Stone Me
Why didn’t I vote in the latest elections for the president of the country of my birth, Iran? Because no matter who is the president of Iran, they would stone me!
As an Iranian woman, I require big changes in order to convince myself that a change in president would mean an improvement of my basic rights as human being inside Iran.
I was among many Iranians who decided not to vote in the recent [s]election. We boycotted the sham election in my motherland and have not been surprised by the results publicized by the mainstream media, both in Iran and elsewhere. This puppet regime has never considered the people’s wishes and has always acted in the interests of the few who are in charge of the prison called Iran. Cheating, lying and hypocrisy are the specialties of the religious demagogues that maintain the farce that Iran is a democratic state.
Here are some simple facts that demonstrate that irrespective of who is president, I would be stoned to death in Iran:
- As a woman whose husband refused to divorce her when she escaped the country and came to Canada as a refugee, I am considered this man’s wife as long as I am alive. It does not matter if I lived separate from him for years, have divorced him in my new country and am in a relationship with a new man. Under Iranian laws and the Iranian constitution, which are based on strict interpretation of Islamic laws, I am considered his wife and am at risk of being stoned for “adultery” if I ever go back to Iran. In fact as a woman, I have no right to divorce my husband under the country’s laws while he has the privilege of marrying three more times without divorcing me. This is the case no matter who is the president of Iran; Ahamdinejad or Mousavi.
- As a journalist and filmmaker, I am called upon by the Islamic Republic of Iran to respect the red lines. These “red lines” include belief and respect for the Supreme Leader and the savagely unjust rules of traditional Islamic law in my country. I am expected not to write or demand equal rights. I am not allowed to make the underground films I have made about the plight of sex trade workers and other social diseases rampant within Iran, as I did secretly 12 years ago. In fact, I am not allowed to make any film without the permission and without censorship by Iran’s Minister of Culture. If I did openly do all these things in Iran, I would disappear, I would be tortured, I would be raped. I would be killed as have so many women journalists, filmmakers and activists in Iran. Among those killed include Zahra Kazemi, the Iranian-Canadian photo journalist, who was brutally tortured and murdered for attempting to photograph and publicize brutalities committed by the Iranian regime.
- I would be considered an infidel if I was born into a Muslim family and later converted to another religion or had I considered myself a non-believer who does not follow strict Islamic morality. My branding as an infidel would result in my public murder, probably by stoning. No matter who is the president of Iran.
- I would be lashed in public, raped in jail or even executed or stoned to death for selling my body in order to bring food to my family, as so many unfortunate Iranian women have been forced to do secretly including many single mothers who have no access to social assistance in a rich but deeply corrupted country like Iran. Even the simple crime of being in love, engaged in a relationship outside of marriage, or worse yet, giving birth to a human being out of Islamic wedlock is considered a crime against humanity! The product of such a union would be considered a bastard and would be taken away from me, and I would receive 100 lashes immediately after giving birth to my baby. No matter who is the president of Iran.
- No matter who is the president of Iran, I would be denied a university education, a government job and a say in politics and it would be as if I basically did not exist if I was a Baha’i. I would be considered half a Shia Muslim if I was Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian or even a Sunni Muslim by all levels of society, no matter who is the president of Iran.
- I would disappear and might be found dead if I were to keep writing and demanding my basic rights as a woman and an intellectual who has no say in politics (there was not even one female minister in the so-called “reformist cabinet” of Mohamad Khatami). This would be my fate had I continued to argue against and challenge the authorities to the fact that although Iran is one of the richest countries in the planet when it comes to resources, 70% of my people live in poverty because of corruption among the leaders and their generous contributions to external causes from fanatic Muslim Hezbollah in Lebanon to the communist government of Venezuela through which they build alliances around the world. Huge numbers of children go to sleep on empty stomachs. Little girls are forced to sell their bodies in the streets of Tehran, Dubai and even China just to survive. I would be jailed or disappeared no matter who is president of Iran.
- No matter who is the president of Iran, I would not be able to be a judge or even a witness in court as a woman. This is because according to Islamic Courts, two women are equal to one man. No matter how educated and aware, I still would be considered half of a man who might be at a demonstrably much lower level of education and qualification, no matter who is the president of Iran.
- No matter who is the president of Iran, I would be lashed if I did not cover my head and body in public in compliance with the mandatory Islamic dress code. If I would be caught at a private family/friend/party or wedding taking place in mixed company, I would be punished for the crime of not being covered. Much worse would happen if I was caught drinking. It would not matter if I considered myself a non-believer of Islam who simply does not want to follow Islamic rules. I would be punished harshly, lashed, raped while in custody and even before going on trial. No matter who is the president of Iran.
- No matter who is the president of Iran, I would be killed if I was openly a homosexual. I would be denied all rights as a human being since homosexuality is considered one of greatest possible sins under the Iranian Islamic regime. I would be considered a criminal and be killed because “there are no homosexuals in Iran!’ That’s odd, because some of my closest friends in Iran say they are gay, but stay “in the closet” for fear of execution, No matter who is the president of Iran.
- No matter who is the president of Iran, Iranian activists living in exile, including myself and many others who are openly opposed to the regime for its cruel human rights violations, will not be able to enter the country. We would be caught at the airport by the regime’s police forces and forced to sign an apology letter for our actions against the regime. If we refused, we would be jailed without trial for wanting freedom for our fellow people. I would be denied of my basic rights as an opposition to the regime and would be called a “spy”, jailed, tortured, raped and executed. This would happen regardless of who was the president of Iran.
This is Iran. This is what it means to live under Ayotollah Khameini and his goons. No change is possible while Iran is controlled by autocratic, fundamentalist religious despots who determine the laws of the land. There has been no real election. Candidates are all hand-picked and cleared by a central religious committee. It is a farcical imitation of the free nomination/ election process that we have pictured in the free world. There is no possibility that a secular, pluralistic, freedom-loving democratic person who loves his or her country can become a candidate to run for president (or any other office) in Iran.
Twelve years ago, we went through the same process. Mohamad Khatami became the favorite of the western media, which called him a “reformist” who spoke beautifully about freedom of speech, civil rights and dialogue between cultures. But when he became president there was a crack down on a student uprising – a crackdown against the same students who voted for him. Many were killed, many disappeared, and many were tortured. Artists, authors and intellectuals disappeared and were found “mysteriously” murdered. The smooth-talking president Khatami, whom westerners loved, never tried to stop the violence and never showed sympathy to his supporters. Instead, he openly avowed that his responsibility was to respect the wishes of the supreme leader, Ayotollah Khameni, and to protect the security of the Islamic regime.
Now, the passionate and oppressed young generation of Iranians are going through exact same situation. They are supporting Khatami’s friend, Mousavi. It is sad that history repeats itself so quickly in my beloved country of birth. The people of Iran were fed up with poverty, injustice, corruption and international embarrassment with the knuckle-dragging, anti-Semitic, war-mongering cretin who was President Ahmadinejad. They chose to support a bad choice – Mousavi – rather than the worse choice, Ahmadinejad. However, when an election is really a selection, choice is an illusion. Mousavi is from the Islamic regime; he is inseparable from it, and all its abuses and cruelties.
The reality is that Iran has not had a democratic, free election for the past 30 years. Mr Mousavi, if elected, will not make any changes, not because he is powerless to do so (as Khatami’s supporters claimed during his presidency), but because he doesn’t believe in a democratic state as his background shows. He belongs to the fanatic dictatorial era of Ayotollah Khomeini and he believes in the same command-and-control system of government. We should not forget Khomeini’s statement in one of his speeches after the revolution about democracy. He said that “if all people of Iran say ‘yes” I would say no to something that I would believe is not right for the Islamic Nation”.
Let us not forget that Mousavi was Prime Minister of Iran in the 1980s when more than ten thousand political prisoners were executed after three-minute sham trials. He has been a part of the Iranian dictatorship system for the past 30 years. If he had not been, he would not be allowed to be a candidate in the first place. In fact in a free democratic state someone like Mousavi should have gone on trial before becoming a presidential candidate for his crimes against thousands of freedom-loving political prisoners who were killed during the time he was Iran's Prime Minister.
A quick look at Mousavi’s political biography reveals him to be a fanatic Khomeini supporter and a fanatic hard-liner similar to Ahmadinejad and others in control of the Islamic regime. His reign as Prime Minister was one of the darkest times in the history of Iran’s Islamic regime in terms of censorship and human rights violations. He is also backed up by the Rafsanjani mafia family, who have stolen oil money for their own family interests while 70% of the population lives in poverty. So ingrained as he is in a system of corruption and exploitation, that how could anyone believe that Mousavi genuinely wants reform?
For these and many other reasons, I did not choose to vote and instead boycotted the election, along with many other Iranians. But this time, many Iranians who boycotted the vote in the last election voted in this one because of their profound disgust with Ahmadinejad. I sympathize with them, but I believe that there exists no better option for the people of Iran than to entirely overthrow the Islamic regime that oppresses the country of my birth. I strongly support my people’s movement against the ever-present dictatorship and violence infecting my country. I will scream, along with my compatriots, ”Down with dictators!” “Down with murderers!” “Down with the brutal oppression that is the Islamic regime and all of its toxic, self-serving alliances.”
Long live freedom in Iran!
Lila Ghobady is an exiled
Iranian writer-journalist and filmmaker living in Canada since 2002. She has
been involved with human rights since working as a journalis in Iran and has
continued her work in Canada when she arrived as a refugee. She has worked as a
Producer and associate Director of internationally-praised underground films along
fellow exiled filmmaker Moslem Mansouri before leaving Iran. Her recent film Forbidden Sun Dance has been
well-received in several countries. As a journalist, she received the title of BlogHer of the Week for her Review
piece on Slumdog Millionaire in March 2009. Lila has received her Master’s
degree in Canadian/women studies from Carleton University in Ottawa. For more
information, please read her blog at: www.banoufilm.blogspot.com. Lila
can be contacted by e-mail at: lilacforfreedom@gmail.com.
170 Comments so far
Show AllI have been blind to the injustices that have been happening in Iran until recently. I want to thank all those who are fighting for freedom in Iran, both in the country and abroad. My prayers go out to those who have been hurt and killed in the recent weeks. I hope the people of Iran know that their cause has reached the ears of the people of the world! I also support the decision not to vote. Keep fighting for Freedom!
People who do not vote,expect Iran to change and become "Canada" over night. I believe,You must move towards the right direction by voting for an slightly more likable/liberal candidate in a closed totalitarian society. Unless you are planning a revolution and you have a perfect leader/candidate with the perfect agenda at the right time in place. Well, my dear , we do not have that candidate, nor the will of the majority in Iran for a revolution. What we have, is the awakening of the youth, and the possibility of an evolution in Iran.
This evolution can be done by sacrifice and hardship and not by spoilt people living abroad, who were not born in their ideal society.
I am glad you are in anew relationship and you are happy now. I am glad as a woman you have found your voice to shout out foul, but I am sorry for you as a woman to be so weak and short minded as to insult brave Iranian woman and insult your X-country like this.
If you are a true intellectual and not a poppet, in time you will come to learn that anything worth striving for in life, is difficult and hazardous. We must fight for those wonderful ideals you are keep repeating by voting for the more liberal man, with the hope of that man maneuvers this ship of us towards the right direction. Direction of freedom,equality,and justice for all.
Whether it’s Iran or USA, the world leaders are pushing people towards closed society. I am Muslim who taught to protect personal rights as well as respect others; especially women and children.
Understand that the upshot of the shoddy media coverage, the Resolution of Congress, the remarks of the President, the dastardly polemics of the special interests and the cumulative effect of the imagination inventions in the blogo-sphere will insure that in the American political discourse the events in Iran will go down as a stolen election, a violent repression of the rights of the people, an utter defeat of democracy and freedom for which America is deemed the only righteous and effective torch-bearer in the entire world. No reasoned argument or philosophy, calculated and responsible historical investigation of the facts, exercise in conscience or religion will ever be able to overturn that judgement. Thus, add one more increment of developing circumstances to the perfect storm which looms over the American polity , leading in the most inexorable of fashions to its descent into chaos and ultimate destruction.
As unrest continues in post-election Iran, former President Mohammad Khatami proposes an impartial committee to investigate complaints about results of the disputed presidential vote.
"A fair, professional, impartial and brave team, which is also entrusted by the protesters, and whose judgment can be accepted will be the resolution to the current unrest," IRNA quoted the former Reformist president as saying in a statement on Sunday.
"It will also be a positive step toward strengthening the Islamic establishment and restoring public confidence. It will also manifest vital decision-making in the interests of the Iranian nation and ideals of the Islamic Revolution in a sensitive juncture," Khatami added.
Note the lack of denunciation, the willingness to adjudicate the problem in a fair way, his support for the Islamic Republic.Of course the U.S. government treated this relatively liberal-moderate leader in an uncooperative, distainful manner, undercutting his ability to introduce reform and combat the conservatives.
It is importantto study and recognize the reality of life in Iran- as anywhere- in support of incremental reform and not get caught up in the demogogue crusades and quixotic fantasies of one woman's highly priveleged view of the situation. Iranian women speak with many voices.
Not anyone who talks about human/women rights violation in Iran is certainly pro-American policy towards middle East!
As someone else mentioned in their comment earlier "she seems to have a broader perspective than one might think:
Interviewer: "Do you fear your films may bolster the fear or misunderstanding some Westerners have about Iran?"
Lila Ghobady: I believe this kind of film will expose realities rarely seen in mainstream media. What happens in country like Iran is beyond the control of ordinary Iranians. It’s a story like that of dozens of autocratic dictatorships, including many Asian and African countries who receive support from Western allies for economic, strategic, or political reasons. Those who live there who are opposing anti-democratic regimes are jailed and tortured; they disappear, are murdered, or are forced into exile. The ongoing injustices help spawn fundamentalist Islamic ideology everywhere."
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/pi%C3%A8ce-de-r%C3%A9sistance-lila-ghobady
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/21/peter-beaumont-iran-crisis-ahmadinejad
What stuck me about this piece is that, even though Iran and America are very different countries, many in both nations feel their much-vaunted democratic vote doesn’t really matter. How many Americans voted for democrats hoping to end the wars or scale back the empire? We didn’t get real change either.
My friends and I sometimes joke about fleeing to Canada when we are feeling an acute sense of disappointment about our own government, but we are not literally forced into exile. We may not feel empowered by our vote, but we do not have to leave behind everything we know and love. My heart goes out to Lila Ghobady and all Iranian exiles, along with my sincere wishes that all will one day have the opportunity to return to a free and peaceful Iran.
Ghobady seems to have done a very good job of putting us in the shoes of those she describes. What is it like to be a woman, of different sexual orientation, an artist, a dissident, and so on, under Iran’s oppressive government? It seems to have struck a nerve, generating so many lively discussion threads in response, each focusing on what the reader felt was important.
I expected to see many comments about the human rights issues mentioned, but I also found it interesting how many people posted in the broader context of all that we have been seeing in the media about Iran. The potential for US meddling, propaganda, and use of the revolt in Iran to intervene militarily, as well as the media tendency to portray Ahmedinejad as either a buffoon or a monster, are all important issues touched on by CD posters. I wish there were this much debate and diversity of opinion on display in mainstream America.
Henry,
Great to see you again. In a post several weeks ago I told the person I was responding to that if you should ever decide to depart from this cyberspace institute of higher learning (aka CD discussion forum) you would be missed. It is wonderful to have you back with us again. (No rocks thrown at you so far?)
Sioux Rose,
Thank you for the heads up on your latest work. I suspect that "Moon Dance" will be an absolute joy to read.
". Someone from the forum is reading it now and has been gracious enough to point out a few grammatical errors" (Sioux Rose)
From what I have seen of your writing I am sure that the above mentioned reader found very few "Grammatical" errors.
Thomas Gilbert
Sioux Rose
DANTE: Someone from the forum is probably reading another work, as Moon Dance is only COMING INTO print NOW. It is a very serious work, my most dedicated of all. Our eyes play tricks on us. I remember once I was so nervous in a spelling bee and the word I got (5th grade I think) was "of." But I said, "Ov." Not to be confused with OY, or OY VAY! Anyway, my point is that even though I was a former English teacher (let's face it the rules of English grammar are bizarre and inconstant!) I miss a few things... and worse, since some of my books run over 100,000 words, due to the hidden format codes every time one makes a correction, if I try to make corrections page by page on a floppy disk, the disk reads there is not enough room! So the alternative is to save work on the C drive. Well, I have found out time and again, regardless of the strategy I deploy, that many changes do NOT get saved. there is NOTHING more frustrating to a writer short of a friend using a manuscript to clean up the dog's mistake!
"Someone from the forum is probably reading another work, as Moon Dance is only COMING INTO print NOW. It is a very serious work, my most dedicated of all. Our eyes play tricks on us"
Yes I got that..The book you were referring to in your comment to my post was a book written for children...
Sioux Rose
DANTE: More to the point, "for children of ALL ages." It's a basic primer on astrology, and uses insects to personify the 12 Zodiac signs. It's quite funny, and I felt I channeled some of it. I love when I can sense that cosmic collaboration process. It usually comes to me, and through me, if I have done Yoga and am centered and receptive and ready to write. I feel honored to have this access. One would have to read my books to sense where this type of encounter lifted the material. It lifts me to read it. All of the scripts I worked hard to produce and send to Hollywood (I began in l994) held spiritual elements that I believe could have made a difference in diffusing so much hatred and violence had audiences been exposed to these ideals. I was always told my work was not "commercial enough," and 9 times out of 10, the agent or potential publisher ENTIRELY lacked my imagination and vision. Like so many things in America today, moneymaking potentials determine its so-called value. So, I am reformatting every one of those scripts and self-publishing them on my own dime. I have no idea if the public will ever be receptive, and it's tough to promote one's work; but I believe these stories came through me for a purpose. I have been their midwife. And I still nurture them like children of a dream.
Hi Souix Rose,
May I ask if you the same Souix Rose who wrote:
"If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons; and if we do it the favor of fighting it blow for blow, we lose in the end because we ourselves get entangled in hatred and negatively based passion."
I love that quote from "Mystic Response to 9/11."
Sioux Rose
MANATEE: I posted that comment, yes. It is taken direct from the I ching, Kua (also known as a hexagram) # 43 which explains the nature of evil and how it cannot be fought successfully. I suppose it should be emblazoned above every conference room where military strategists meet. How many lives could be saved, could HAVE been saved if this wisdom was understood? But of course this knowledge would interfere with the selling of weapons, a rite sacred unto Mars and his legions who have taken over the U.S. government and made warfare into THE major product/export of this wounded and ever-so wounding nation.
Thank you for bringing that quote back into circulation. So much of the I ching presents timeless wisdom. It explains, too, that there are times when evil is in ascenscion, and sometimes all one can do is wait it out. "Be like the willow tree that bends but doesn't break when faced with the rising flood waters."
There was a time when people understood nature as their teacher, that the laws that regulate the cycles behind events in the geological/biological world(s), can and do reveal much to us arrogant human beings.
As a general rule I try to bring the I ching, astrology, numerology, and a number of mystical sages (what I learned from them) into this forum. At times it raises the level of the discourse. After all, we are accustomed to polarized thinking, left versus right, Christian versus Muslim, etc. When we look higher to the perspective of heaven (a/k/a the cosmos), we are positioned to see our own stances from a more enlightened frame of reference. The circle has no sides!
Culture Wars in Iran; Apologia
I know, its one thing to have a generous attitude towards shopping-cart pushing bottle collectors and pan-handlers on the street, or having easy relations with the girls down at Rite-Aid, converse comfortably with Jehova-witness types, or get along O.K. with limbaugh-loving delivery guys, maintain a sense of humor to flag-waving, pick-up driving rednecks etc etc....another thing to put up with revolutionary guard, Basij-type militia morons in Iran acting like religious police, oppressing the bourgeois comforts of life.
They must be especially annoying to the old guard like Mousavi who actually took risks and made sacrifices during the revolution and war whereas the new can only claim "heroic" actions like capturing a bunch of clueless British sailors.
One can detect the exasperation of "internationalist" types like Abtahi and other more Sufi orientated religious leaders, kind of like Unitarians trying to have a civil cup of tea with a bunch of maniac, scripture quoting sophmores from Bob Jones college
I'm sorry but I still think their complaints against Ahmad Nejad are over-wrought. The situation is like this; however upset liberals in America were with Richard Nixon, in retrospective he seems to have been a rather fine president and hardly as reactionary as those that followed, at least for those who make the effort to go over the record and don't just stick with the judgements they formed in the 70's.
Remember the greatest obstacle to reform and relaxation of the religious police in Iran is the attiude of the West which completely misconcieved the Revolution in the first place and continues its intractibly idiotic assessments to this day.
"Color revolutions", "people power", advancement of a poorly considered neo-liberal economic agenda (beyond that already formed in the mind of Ahmad Nejad himelf) is probably not going to be all that useful for the time being.
I don't really know what to suggest they do. Obviously some push-back is necessary. At any rate, I hope the present calm on the streets continues and that reformists resist the temptation to get up another blood-bath because that can only support the traditional pieties of Shiite mythology.
. . . well there WAS that annoying Watergate incident, and the Viet Nam war, but who's counting.
I only recently discover that my surname is actually of Persian origins, and then this happens. What a strange world.
Anyway, excellent piece, Lila. Those are pretty much the reasons a good Iranian friend of mine didn't vote either. Don't mind the extreme left-wing wackos inhabiting this site who think everyone who speaks badly of the Iranian theocracy is being paid by the CIA or some neoconservative organization. And of course all the protesters in Iran are getting paid or influenced by the CIA and I must be getting paid by the CIA too. LOL
Although I don't subscrbe to the theory that this is a C.I.A backed coup attempt, there cetainly is alot of evidence that that COULD be the case. See Alex Jones prisonplanet website for a rundown of all the pronouncements by our government that such operations might be useful and the fundings they have suggested to support it.
It is always important to remind people, however, that the actual, on-the-ground intelligence resources of the CIA are extremely limited and mostly inept. And you couldn't count the number of really successful covert operation this agency has conducted since its foundation on the fingers of one hand. None-the-less, the amount of money poured into this and other intelligence agencies is "classified" to the extent that even members of Congress are largely unaware of their cost to the taxpayers. Furthermore, a large porportion of their work is parcelled out to private contractors at two or three times the cost of using government employees.
So, really, I won't be LAUGHING OUT LOUD anytime soon.
Very good article. The author should not think she's in a great country living in Canada, but the governments here certainly don't have extreme fundamentalist religion for defining and applying or enforcing laws. It's nevertheless a very criminal country, far more than most people apparently realise. There's a new book out by Yves Engler, "The Black Book of Canadian Foreign Policy", and he clearly states in some of his writings that this is only about foreign policy, instead of also including the continued genocide perpetrated against Canadian indigenous, aboriginal peoples. Several reviews are linked in the webpage for the book.
http://blackbook.foreignpolicy.ca
With that said, I'll repeat that this is a serious article that Lila Ghobady provided, and it's credible that if Iran had a real democracy, so a just one, which the U.S., Canada, and plenty of "western" countries also don't have, but if Iran had such a society, then it's surely a certainty that the extreme Islamic fundamentalism, etcetera, would be ended by the population of voters.
However, did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or ... Mousavi really win the presidential election based on the votes that were cast? I don't know, but there's an article by Stephen Lendman posted at www.globalresearch.ca on June 20th or else 19th that says some of the things James Petras states in the article deepa quoted in posts further above or below this post I'm making. Stephen Lendman refers to the poll results reported a month or two ago, recently anyway, and the dates are state by both Lendman and Petras. Those polls showed much voter support for Ahmadinejad; if the polls and the results reported were truthful anyway.
It's possible that the majority voted for Ahmadinejad not because of liking him and the Ayatollah Khomeini regime, but because of wanting nuclear-generated energy and this government, so far, having stood for and defended this right.
I don't think Lila Ghobady literally says that Ahmadinejad did not win, but rather said or means that if conditions were socially and politically just in Iranian, then such extreme fundamentalism based on so-called religion would not be supported by the majority of Iranians; and I agree with that, while thinking that perhaps many Iranians know the society isn't as it should be, but does present some stands against western imperialism, capitalist extremism, ... the west's hegemony and hypocrisy.
Are most Iranians for nuclear-generated energy or power? Many of them are still very angry at the west for the U.S. and British overthrow of the good or relatively good Iranian leader in 1951, a history that I believe is described well enough in the aforementioned article by Stephen Lendman. And these Iranians certainly don't want to fall prey to the U.S., etcetera, ever again. So they would not necessarily refrain from voting for Ahmadinejad, given he has been presenting some stands against the west's hegemony.
Perhaps many Iranians living in the west would not care about that past history of blatant, flagrant western hegemony towards Iran and its population, but Iranians in Iran might care very much about this history and never want to see it repeated ever again. Many enough people who I believe to be respectable writers and probably some respectable historians have written about this ugly history. It's evidently factual.
Of course none of this latter sort of reality justifies the extreme fundamentalism by which the Iranian government rules; but Iranians still have cause to want a government that they can continue to work on trying to correct, while nevertheless appreciating having one that does resist the west's encroachment(s), etcetera. And flawless governments don't exist, not as far as I'm aware anyway. Again, even the Canadian government is very criminal, nationally and internationally; especially when considering its size. It's not as criminal as the U.S. and other western governments are in terms of foreign "policies", but it's also not as powerful or large. It's been and continues to be very criminal given its smaller size. It's rogue in terms of its obligations with respect to both Canadian laws and treaties, and its membership in the UN and being co-signatory to the UN's Charter.
Nevertheless, I'd definitely like to see Iran cease the extremist fundamentalism, which surely few people support, or approve of. I've condemned such rule plenty of times, but also without forgetting the above.
Once again we have this reference to CIA involvement in Iranian affairs in the 1950's- "that Iranians are still angry about it", which is true, but hardly more specifically angry at that then about U.S. support for the Shah (training and deploying SAVAK), economic sanctions and sequestration of Iranian investments in America, support for Saddam during the war ( arms, satallite info for gas attacks and "the tanker war") not to mention the hairbrained intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention its tacit supprt for Israel's nuclear arsenal or its insistence that Iran is developing a bomb in spite of a complete inability to come up with one concrete fact to support their contention.
Of course it is absolutely necessary to ignore such events if one is to come up with a credible "soft-headed" denunciation of "Islamic extremism" like this.
Sioux Rose
JOHN S: I appreciate your depthful analyses of present-day Iran based on its recent history, etc.
I really fail to understand everyone's problem with Iran. They have let God into Government. Just like what so many fundamentalists in the USA want to do.
When God runs your government then if you disagree with your Government you are disagreeing with God. This, of course, must be sinful by definition. Every action God then takes is wholly justified (remember... God = Government now).
There is not any reason for debate, so why waste your efforts? God is good and God now rules.
I fail to see the problem.
Indeed, no other opinion is even possible.
Atheist governments have never conducted purges, never had mass concentration camps, mass reeducations camps, never conducted Cultural Revolutions, never tried Great Leaps Forward.
Nope. Never.
Lila,
Read your blog post and I think you’re missing a lot of points!
I just wrote five paragraphs to dispute all the silliness in your post but I deleted them. I’ve learned it’s useless to argue with people with your points of views. You want to believe all that stuff, you go right ahead. You’re so wrong you can’t even begin to see where right is but that’s ok – it doesn’t make you a bad person it just means you and I don’t see things with the same truth filter applied. But please do yourself a favor – don’t shoot yourself in the foot by spreading this nonsense around. You’re not changing anyone’s mind, you’re only preaching to those who already believe what you believe and you WILL alienate people who would otherwise be on your side. Your opinion is one-sided and ignores the very complicated politics involved in IRAN. Mousavi isn’t innocent and neither are the rest of the people who have EVER overruled this country (including whoever clown you support!!).
If you think you have all the answers, then go over there and solve it yourself. Who is the hypocrite now, eh?
There are two sides to every story but you only see one of them. If that’s the way you feel, then fine – you’re wrong, but you’re entitled to your opinion. Just do yourself a favor and keep it off your blog! I personally think while our countrymen are being slaughtered in IRAN , your ridicules blog post sounds ridiculous and certainly makes you lose a ton of professional credibility!
Regards,
Reza Alirezaei
http://blogs.devhorizon.com/reza
But this article does present an opportunity to present contrary arguments that might not be available otherwise. Perhaps I flatter myself in suggesting that all my responses since yesterday morning have made a positive contribution in helping people to understand the complexity of the situation. As my first posting this morning indicates, I am even willing to admit I have perhaps gone a little overboard myself. But, when you boil alot of the baloney down, isn't a relatively moderate and progressive debate about such issues ultimately what the liberals in Iran are aiming at?
Go see The Stoning of Soraya M! Support the end of end of stoning world wide! It is the most impacting film I have ever seen! The world should see it! We can let this terrible act continue!
About the tolerance that western liberalism demands of fundamentalist Islam, it just so happens to be tolerance that supports intolerance. Western liberals need to grow up and appropriately apply tolerance. Tolerate the good, not the bad. Tolerate the left, not the right. Tolerate the people, not the elites. Western liberals are unwilling to differentiate right from wrong because they too are power-hungry, thus, western imperialism perpetuates and inflames/encourages Islamic radicalism. Western liberals have yet to embrace enlightenment.
Sioux Rose
RT DRURY: I see this as the path of moral relativism. Everything goes, everyone is entitled to do their own thing, and little thought is given to what the costs to the greater society become when some of the coveted freedoms concern the right to use items that are inherently dangerous or otherwise viciously erode the fabric of society as a whole. Bill Clinton with his whole "centrist" stance is the poster boy for moral relativism in my view.
Western liberals are differentiating right from wrong on a more an less arbitrary basis, which explains widespread concurrence with "The War on Terror" and other ideological contrivances which help project American power on a most convenient, self-interested basis to support the out-of-control consumer indulgences of the American people.
WOW ! What a beauty queen Lila Ghobady is ! Seriously though, in case nobody here noticed and the endless comments seem to prove it, she's living in Canada and not the USA. Why? Because Iran and the USA are no different. Perhaps this Iranian knows that no matter who is president in USA, the American people are screwed and the US government will continue to empower corrupt and brutal regimes in Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, and Iran.
Robocop99, while I understand the use of hyperbole, your statement that there is no difference between Iran and the US is wrong, wrong, wrong. Your comments on CD disprove your very contention--or do you really think that people in Iran could criticize the Islamic Republic within their country and not be thrown into jail?
If you do you need to reread Lila's article. Also, Canada is just as supportive of Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, and Iran as is the US.
Poet
"your statement that there is no difference between Iran and the US is wrong, wrong, wrong. "
No, for the most part tyranny is there but you're not even noticing it. Please tell me what's the difference between lawmakers cracking down on advocates of single payer health care or for that matter most any progressive dissent and lawmakers in Iran cracking down on dissent.
"Your comments on CD disprove your very contention"
Prove it. On the other hand, I could say the same of yours.
"If you do you need to reread Lila's article."
Keep your crap to yourself. I know exactly what Lila's talking about. I have my opinions as do you. If you wanna live under the Sharia law, be my guest but don't push us into it.
"Also, Canada is just as supportive of Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, and Iran as is the US."
Oh gee, thanks for admitting that the US isn't guilty alone. But what do you care? You're gonna do what we all do. Rely on Saudi Arabia and Iran for sucking their oil tits.
"Please tell me what's the difference between lawmakers cracking down on advocates of single payer health care or for that matter most any progressive dissent and lawmakers in Iran cracking down on dissent."
When lawmakers in the US 'crackdown' they don't put you in prison. I think that is a significant difference.
When elected lawmakers oppose a legislative agenda they aren't being tyrannical. When unelected officials in Iran deny the public the candidate of their choice, remember the Guardian Council must approve every name on the ballot, and they seemly a fair vote that is being tyrannical.
You seem to be need a bit of an education. I'm sure there are some community colleges near by you maybe you should attend a class our two on government.
"Keep your crap to yourself. I know exactly what Lila's talking about. I have my opinions as do you. If you wanna live under the Sharia law, be my guest but don't push us into it."
I know of nobody here who is advocating the implementation of Sharia Law. In fact as long as we have a constitution in this country we don't have to worry about Sharia Law.
Great article and I thank you for it. Like so many political systems, most are tainted by corruption and patriarchial forces. I am sometimes reminded by wisdom teachers, what is important:
"We fear our highest possibilities....we are generally afraid to become that which we can glimpse in our most perfect moments, under the most perfect conditions, under times of great courage. We enjoy and even thrill in the possibilities we see in ourselves in such peak moments, and yet we simultaneously shiver with weakness, awe, and fear before these very same possibilities."
Or the Great Soul, Mahatma Gandhi when he said, "The only devils in the world are those running in our own hearts. That is where the battle should be fought."
Plato noted that, "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when an adult is afraid of the light."
And Antoine de Saint Exupery said that, "Behind all seen things lies something vaster; everything is but a path, a portal, or a window opening on something other than itself."
On thinking or cognitive hegemony, Einstein said, "The level of thinking that got you to where you are now will not get you to where you dream of being."
Fredrick Faust observed that, "There is a giant asleep within everyone. When the Giant awakens, miracles happen."
Finding peace a lost art these days, but Karl Reiland suggested that, "In about the same degree as you are helpful, you will be happy."
And speaking about the ineffable in her own way Louisa May Alcott said, "Far away there in the sunshine are my highest aspirations. I may not reach them, but I can look up and see their beauty, believe in them and try to follow them."
Bradford Keeney speaking from personal experience noted that, "There is a wick within you that is waiting to become the light of your soul. When this inner flame burns brightly you will feel a magnificent awakening in your life."
Mary Cholomondeley said, "Every year that I live I am convinced that the waste of my life lies in the love we have not given, the powers we have not used, the selfish prudence which will risk nothing, and which, shirking pain, misses happiness as well."
Emily Dickenson speaking of life said, "That it will not come again is what makes life so sweet."
On life, Henri Amiel said, "The process of life should be the birth of a soul. This is the highest alchemy, and this justifies our presence on the earth. This is our calling and our virtue."
Thoreau the Giant of existentialist action said, "It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know."
The great humanitarian Albert Schweitzer noted, "I don't know what your destiny of life will be, but one thing I do know: the only ones among you who will really be happy are those who have sought and found how to serve."
Tolstoy in the same way said, "Just imagine that the purpose of life is your happiness only - then life becomes a cruel and senseless thing. You have to embrace what the wisdom of humanity, you intellect and your heart tell you: that the meaning of life is to serve the force that sent you into the world. Then life becomes a joy."
An Arabian proverb wisely proclaims, "Keep the gold and keep the silver, but give us wisdom."
And in keeping with all the academics speaking otherwise, Norman Cousins said, "Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside of us while we live."
Finally Helen Keller in her vast wisdom observed that, "The most pathetic person in the world is someone who has sight, but has no vison"
The same is true of our various political systems seeking to steal our soul.
I used to have a collection of such aphorisms but then I realized they end up pretty meaningless outside the context in which they were created. Probably down right contradictory to the purpose for which they are applied here.
Here's a liitle aphorism I created for myself:
Polemic- cramming history into a pre-concieved argument is one thing- presenting history (limited by chance and unpredictability) and the arguments that arise out of it- quite another.
Let's try to be sharper students of these strange matters.
Actually, a technical detail, but it is apostates, not infidels who can be imprisoned (women) and executed (men). Iran does allow a most other religions (except Bahai) to practice freely, but doesn't allow Muslims to convert to another religion or to renounce Islam.
Also, Ms. Ghobady seems to imply that there is an enormous amount of extrajuducial and vigilante-type torturing and execution in Iran - many more than formal death sentences - which for some of the things she lists, I believe are rare (not that even indicting one person these things is ever justified).
drew3000, can you comment on this?
One thing I've to noticed through-out the many years I have studied the matter,one religion always affords the opportunity within itself to practice another. To understand the truth in this you first have to discount the relevance of grand cathedrals, mosques, synogogues, shrines, temples, statues and even the whole paraphenalia of theological discourse. You'd also have to appreciate the difference between tolerating another's belief and submitting to the demand for respect.
Perhaps one day the City of Jerusalem could be made into a symbol of this truth, instead of the capital of this or that State. A home for all those people who have no other home but in God.
That's a response? I'm sure Iranians can do that too, they just don't dare tell anyone. But off topic nontheless.
Apparently drew3000 who was posting from Iran, is no longer available.
Nah, just rapidly losing interest in this pointless debate.
Too many people here will continue to believe that Iranians are incapable of acting on their own. They are all apparently controlled by microchips implanted by the U.S. government. No free will at all.
From my direct experience with Iranian people, that's not what I've seen. And no matter how many people may counter the claims people make here, no matter if it's Amy Goodman, Norman Finkelstein, Robert Fisk, or anyone, you'll just say that they're now either duped or part of the propaganda system. It's a perfect loop. By disagreeing with some of the people here, those who disagree prove their guilt.
Continue the self delusion. ;-)
Lila Ghobady, I'm not an Iranian. But if I were, I'd have to second everything you said. I'd be stoned too, because I'm openly gay. No matter what happens in Iran, the truth of the matter is that as long as Islamic Law is the law of the land and is interpreted by fanatic fundamentalists, there can be no life, much less freedom, for over half the population.
Excellent article, but I think Ghobady is being shortsighted. There is, embedded in what's happening in Iran right now, the potential to overthrow the rule of the mullahs.
The Supreme Leader miscalculated very badly in first assuming he could have the elections rigged in favor of his boy in such a transparently phony way, then in thinking the old methods of cracking down on the population would work in a technological age that works around them.
The unrest in Iran is growing at an astonishing rate. It's true that Mousavi has never been a real "reformer." He's a conservative, like everyone the mullahs allow to seek office, but during the campaign, he began embracing reformist positions, just as had candidates for years before Bush went into Iraq and put the hardliners back in the saddle in Iran. Mousavi tapped into the dissatisfaction the public has with the hardliners, and he's become more of a figurehead of the movement against them than a leader. It has gone well beyond him now. A real change is in the wind. It was true, in the beginning, that whoever won the election, Ghobadi could still be stoned. It isn't so obvious that this will be the case in the future.
---
Left Hook: The Blog
http://claslib2.tripod.com/pow/
Deepa
"Iranian Elections: The ‘Stolen Elections’ Hoax" by James Petras.
http://www.countercurrents.org/petras200609.htm
"There is hardly any election, in which the White House has a significant stake, where the electoral defeat of the pro-US candidate is not denounced as illegitimate by the entire political and mass media elite. In the most recent period, the White House and its camp followers cried foul following the free (and monitored) elections in Venezuela and Gaza, while joyously fabricating an ‘electoral success’ in Lebanon despite the fact that the Hezbollah-led coalition received over 53% of the vote.
"Almost the entire spectrum of Western opinion makers, including all the major electronic and print media, the major liberal, radical, libertarian and conservative web-sites, echoed the opposition’s claim of rampant election fraud. Neo-conservatives, libertarian conservatives and Trotskyites joined the Zionists in hailing the opposition protestors as the advance guard of a democratic revolution. Democrats and Republicans condemned the incumbent regime, refused to recognize the result of the vote and praised the demonstrators’ efforts to overturn the electoral outcome. The New York Times, CNN, Washington Post, the Israeli Foreign Office and the entire leadership of the Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations called for harsher sanctions against Iran and announced Obama’s proposed dialogue with Iran as ‘dead in the water’.
What is astonishing about the West’s universal condemnation of the electoral outcome as fraudulent is that not a single shred of evidence in either written or observational form has been presented either before or a week after the vote count. During the entire electoral campaign, no credible (or even dubious) charge of voter tampering was raised. As long as the Western media believed their own propaganda of an immanent victory for their candidate, the electoral process was described as highly competitive, with heated public debates and unprecedented levels of public activity and unhindered by public proselytizing. The belief in a free and open election was so strong that the Western leaders and mass media believed that their favored candidate would win."
And James Petras saw how many votes being counted?
Again, copious evidence, no real recognition of it.
Deepa
"A number of newspaper pundits, including Gideon Rachman of the Financial Times, claim as evidence of electoral fraud the fact that Ahmadinejad won 63% of the vote in an Azeri-speaking province against his opponent, Mousavi, an ethnic Azeri. The simplistic assumption is that ethnic identity or belonging to a linguistic group is the only possible explanation of voting behavior rather than other social or class interests. A closer look at the voting pattern in the East-Azerbaijan region of Iran reveals that Mousavi won only in the city of Shabestar among the upper and the middle classes (and only by a small margin), whereas he was soundly defeated in the larger rural areas, where the re-distributive policies of the Ahmadinejad government had helped the ethnic Azeris write off debt, obtain cheap credits and easy loans for the farmers. Mousavi did win in the West-Azerbaijan region, using his ethnic ties to win over the urban voters. In the highly populated Tehran province, Mousavi beat Ahmadinejad in the urban centers of Tehran and Shemiranat by gaining the vote of the middle and upper class districts, whereas he lost badly in the adjoining working class suburbs, small towns and rural areas.
"The careless and distorted emphasis on ‘ethnic voting’ cited by writers from the Financial Times and New York Times to justify calling Ahmadinejad ‘s victory a ‘stolen vote’ is matched by the media’s willful and deliberate refusal to acknowledge a rigorous nationwide public opinion poll conducted by two US experts just three weeks before the vote, which showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin – even larger than his electoral victory on June 12. This poll revealed that among ethnic Azeris, Ahmadinejad was favored by a 2 to 1 margin over Mousavi, demonstrating how class interests represented by one candidate can overcome the ethnic identity of the other candidate (Washington Post June 15, 2009). The poll also demonstrated how class issues, within age groups, were more influential in shaping political preferences than ‘generational life style’. According to this poll, over two-thirds of Iranian youth were too poor to have access to a computer and the 18-24 year olds “comprised the strongest voting bloc for Ahmadinejad of all groups” (Washington Porst June 15, 2009). The only group, which consistently favored Mousavi, was the university students and graduates, business owners and the upper middle class. The ‘youth vote’, which the Western media praised as ‘pro-reformist’, was a clear minority of less than 30% but came from a highly privileged, vocal and largely English speaking group with a monopoly on the Western media. Their overwhelming presence in the Western news reports created what has been referred to as the ‘North Tehran Syndrome’, for the comfortable upper class enclave from which many of these students come. While they may be articulate, well dressed and fluent in English, they were soundly out-voted in the secrecy of the ballot box."
Deepa
"In general, Ahmadinejad did very well in the oil and chemical producing provinces. This may have be a reflection of the oil workers’ opposition to the ‘reformist’ program, which included proposals to ‘privatize’ public enterprises. Likewise, the incumbent did very well along the border provinces because of his emphasis on strengthening national security from US and Israeli threats in light of an escalation of US-sponsored cross-border terrorist attacks from Pakistan and Israeli-backed incursions from Iraqi Kurdistan, which have killed scores of Iranian citizens. Sponsorship and massive funding of the groups behind these attacks is an official policy of the US from the Bush Administration, which has not been repudiated by President Obama; in fact it has escalated in the lead-up to the elections.
"What Western commentators and their Iranian protégés have ignored is the powerful impact which the devastating US wars and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan had on Iranian public opinion: Ahmadinejad’s strong position on defense matters contrasted with the pro-Western and weak defense posture of many of the campaign propagandists of the opposition.
"The great majority of voters for the incumbent probably felt that national security interests, the integrity of the country and the social welfare system, with all of its faults and excesses, could be better defended and improved with Ahmadinejad than with upper-class technocrats supported by Western-oriented privileged youth who prize individual life styles over community values and solidarity."
Thanks Deepa, finally a voice of reason and knowledge, I am exhausted trying to turn back the tide of naive cheerleaders for USA sponsored civil war.
Just because civil unrest has occurred in a 'foe' nation does not mean the United States sponsored it.
Sometimes the people in a repressive dictatorship revolt against the unelected rulers.
One may argue as to whether Ahmadinejad won the election fairly or not but simply accuse the US of orchestrating the whole thing is ridiculous.
Personally i find it a bit curious how 39.2 million hand written ballots were counted so quickly. Previous election that had much lower voter turn out took a couple days to count yet this time around, with record turn out, it took just a few hours?
Only a person blinded by their hatred of the US could ignore such a fact!
I admire your courage. You are what I would call a heroine. You are an inspiration to your sisters in Iran as well as in other places and it will be people like you that will slowly transform Iran into a society that recognizes universal human rights. Thanks for writing.
Not sure about the spirit of this article, I did some research and found she seems to have a broader perspective than one might think:
Interviewer: "Do you fear your films may bolster the fear or misunderstanding some Westerners have about Iran?"
Answer: I believe this kind of film will expose realities rarely seen in mainstream media. What happens in country like Iran is beyond the control of ordinary Iranians. It’s a story like that of dozens of autocratic dictatorships, including many Asian and African countries who receive support from Western allies for economic, strategic, or political reasons. Those who live there who are opposing anti-democratic regimes are jailed and tortured; they disappear, are murdered, or are forced into exile. The ongoing injustices help spawn fundamentalist Islamic ideology everywhere."
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/pi%C3%A8ce-de-r%C3%A9sistance-lila-ghobady
By spreading the knowledge of what truly happens inside a corrupt nation, you are slowly changing the perceptions of the general public. It is time to embrace science first, and scripture second, and realize that we are all linked and must work together to make change.
Join us at PEApparel.org.
Question Everything
What about the movie which will be out June 26th,entitled "The Stoning" Doesn't this movie confirm the accuracy of the article:" No matter Who is President of Iran, they would stone me." The one thing I noticed when watching the protest was the women who were marching on the streets against the election as compared to the gathering of those who support Ahmadinejad. There were no women at the gathering I saw of those who support Ahmadinejad . Didn't Mousavi's wife speak out for women during her husbands campaign? I don't trust him either but something should be done about the abuse of women in all cultures and religions. I am saddened by the horror stories of abuse against women and girls.If it was race rather than gender there would be outrage with leaders condemning the abuse.
Actually, there were women supporting him:
http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/view/4bf07f36c31b8ec9000948adfbcd9026/mps/Irans-President-Mahmoud-Ahmad...
I don't support either Iranian candidate, for the same reasons I don't support Bush or Obama. I doubt the "real change" any would bring. At the same time, it is just not true to say there are no women in the rallies supporting Ahmadinejad. If they are conservative, they may have separate rallies.
A good piece that looks at the big picture. My wife listed off a lot of the same reasons for almost not voting, but did go ahead and vote opposition. A lot of our friends were with the camp across the street yelling to boycott the whole thing for these exact reasons, though.
With true Islam comes true freedom, true peace, true justice. Whatever these people are doing, it is not Islam. They don't know what it is. They don't know how to practice it. They don't understand it's philosophy. Because of this, them and people like them will not win. Only true Islam can win. These people have no power. The only power lies in faith in the Divine. They can stone me and ridicule me all they want. They are the infidels. Says so in The Book.
"Even the most powerful human being has a limited sphere of strength. Draw him outside of that sphere and into your own, and his strength will dissipate." - Moriehi Ueshiba, creator of Aikido, the Art of Peace.
Are you an Iranian first or a Muslim first? Decide now.
- Insurgent
I am human first. :) But I agree with your point. In my experience, people who are hateful and vengeful tend to project those qualities in their "god." I think the true message of all major religions (and really secular ideologies as well) should be true freedom, true peace, and true justice. If that is what you are looking for, you can find it in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Humanism, etc.
It is too bad we don't get to see more diverse Islamic views in the corporate media. The light is always shining on the most extreme, regressive versions of Islam. Fortunately, I have a wide circle of friends that includes many progressive Muslims. If your entire experience with Islam comes from the corporate media, it is easy to see why "progressive Muslims" would sound like an oxymoron!
You both can be correct ------ Mousavi might not be cooperative.
But that is even worse then the USA efforts will be aimed more at destabilization than puppet regime.
We are already forgetting that this may have been a valid election.
United States House of Representatives
Statement Opposing Resolution on Iran
June 19, 2009
I rise in reluctant opposition to H Res 560, which condemns the Iranian government for its recent actions during the unrest in that country. While I never condone violence, much less the violence that governments are only too willing to mete out to their own citizens, I am always very cautious about “condemning” the actions of governments overseas. As an elected member of the United States House of Representatives, I have always questioned our constitutional authority to sit in judgment of the actions of foreign governments of which we are not representatives. I have always hesitated when my colleagues rush to pronounce final judgment on events thousands of miles away about which we know very little. And we know very little beyond limited press reports about what is happening in Iran.
Of course I do not support attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people, but when is the last time we condemned Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the many other countries where unlike in Iran there is no opportunity to exercise any substantial vote on political leadership? It seems our criticism is selective and applied when there are political points to be made. I have admired President Obama’s cautious approach to the situation in Iran and I would have preferred that we in the House had acted similarly.
I adhere to the foreign policy of our Founders, who advised that we not interfere in the internal affairs of countries overseas. I believe that is the best policy for the United States, for our national security and for our prosperity. I urge my colleagues to reject this and all similar meddling resolutions.
Ron Paul
thanks for the quote,
For a real democracy, peace, truth and justice movement, Ron Paul and Dennis K. would be the best two with experience to lead it.
Why do I keep hearing this?
Ron Paul is a member of the Ayn Rand free-market fetishists - opposed to all environmental, workplace, labor, land-use planning laws of any sort. He is opposed to any sort of progressive taxation (really all taxation except the ultra regressive sales tax) he opposed the very notion of health care as a right and believes that "free markets" will fix everything.
How would such a person be compatible with Kucinich???
Well, they get along and agree with each other often... both outsiders.
I never hear Ron Paul strongly promote the things you say he is about.
I let folks speak for themselves.
He is very compatible and comparable with Dennis and he is strongly against most of the imperialist moves of the USA.. just like the quote above.
He is one of the most progressive men in Congress about the Federal Reserve's secrecy way before the others .
He is against the COPS OF THE WORLD policy of America... this is what I hear from him, not what you claim.
Maybe he liked some Ayn Rand ideas ...so what. She does not have any voice in what is happening now and if she was around you don't know what she would be saying, but you would probably claim you know but people change so I judge Ron Paul on what he says not on what Ayn Rand said in the past or what you and others say now.
You sound too Ideological to be accurate... Sorry about that.
------------------
But, you got me interested and since you all jumped on Ron because he liked her, here are some quotes from her:
A building has integrity just like a man. And just as seldom.
Ayn Rand
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.
Ayn Rand
A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving.
Ayn Rand
A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
Ayn Rand
Achievement of your happiness is the only moral purpose of your life, and that happiness, not pain or mindless self-indulgence, is the proof of your moral integrity, since it is the proof and the result of your loyalty to the achievement of your values.
Ayn Rand
Achieving life is not the equivalent of avoiding death.
Ayn Rand
Ask yourself whether the dream of heaven and greatness should be waiting for us in our graves - or whether it should be ours here and now and on this earth.
Ayn Rand
Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand
Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.
Ayn Rand
Every aspect of Western culture needs a new code of ethics - a rational ethics - as a precondition of rebirth.
Ayn Rand
-----------------
Just a few, so now I can see why someone with an open mind would like her.
Thanks for the comments
Right on! Not many people remember Ayn Rand (she could have been a better writer) but as for her little wax doll Ron Paul, he's a dangerous fool. Libertarians, start using your heads!
Actually, Ayn Rand is still quite the rage in all our corporate boardrooms, our most lavishly funded think tanks like the CATO institute, almost everyone in the IT sector (Wikipedia has a huge global libertarian bias), most of the Republican party and more than a few Democrats. Her books are still widely assigned in classes.
And her ideas have seeped into the thinking on every USAn down to it's very infrastructure. The suburban environment is largely Ayn Randian. The very idea of a "society" is practically foreign to anyone under 50 these days (including our current president it seems).
The rise of her ideas represent the opening of post-enlightenment era - where ideas are elevated to greatness not because of their scientific truth of that the elevate more humans from a live of brutishness, but because of their usefulness to the economically powerful.
God help us all!
God help us all!
Sioux Rose
PJD: Great insights! I'd only add that Ronald Reagan used his Hollywood "Aw, shucks" persona to exalt greed as if it had emerged as one of heaven's virtues. The churches all bought it, and that led to the quest for prosperity, Calvinism revivified for the 21st century. I got mine, so screw you... (as) because I got mine, I demonstrate God's favor; and you, by having none, demonstrate its reverse.
"God bless the chile that's got his own."
And the Protestant Work Ethic.
And 100% Senators rubberstamped the Gaza Holocaust.
Thereby losing all credibility.
dear lila. it is painful to read your article and obviously there is alot of pain brought out of those reading it. may all find peace soon.
I believe all of what she writes of is possible but we do have the recent beauty queen/ journalist/ possible spy arrest and conviction in Tehran without any of these horrible treatments staring us in the face.
Pictures of average women on the streets of Tehran show sexy women in tight jeans and lipstick with a scarf on their heads.
Thankfully someone has finally mentioned Mousavi's crimes.
I also believe Mousavi is no better possibly worse than Ahmadinejad.
It would seem Mousavi has brokered a deal with the Imperialist West.
My main concern is not to have a deadly destabilization of Iran as the USA has done to Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
This article does not promote violence but it does not hurt to keep in mind that we certainly do not need anymore bomb them out of their Burqas propaganda.
Remember if the Evangelicals had their way the USA would be similiar to Iran.
I have no doubt that she is writing emotionally. Which actually weakens her argument.
Sounds like she really comes from Saudi Arabia, about which all her accusations are for the most part true. Saudi Arabia, apart from Israel, our strongest ally in the region. The main financial and spiritual support for Al Queda.
I make it a rule of thumb to discount the statements of emigrants who use the freedom and prosperity of their new country to make political aggitations against the political regimes of the countries they fled. This has led the U.S. into foreign policy decisions that have not been helpful, like with respect to Cuba,Serbia, Georgia and, of course Iran. The influence of their lobby groups in Congress is way out of proportion to the interests of the majority of Americans. The Shah's former allies, set up comfortably in California, shouldn't get so much attention with their exaggerations and axe-grindings.
Of course some ex-patriots do have important things to say and help us appreciate the complexities and paradoxes of their old countries.
This seems just like the bullshit that precipitated before the invasion of Iraq. Remember the pre-mature babies that Saddam was accused of killing? It all turned out to be a fabricated story.
I don't know anything about Iranian law. However from the authors own description, there are prostitutes in Iran who have not been stoned. Also she does not mention any that have been stoned to death.
My guess is the laws may exist on the books but are not being enforced. If that is the case, I see a country going through a cultural transition towards recognition, if not yet total acceptance of diversity.
Iran is way behind us. Not a reason to kill them, unless of course you are a neo-con hell bent on world domination.
A US agency did a poll prior to the election there and found Ahamdinejad leading by a 2-1 margin against his opponents, which is better than what he got in the election itself. The link is on counterpunch.org.
I don't think that Lila Ghobady is calling for an attack on Iran.
There is revolution brewing all over the world.
All sides need change with way too much ideology substituting for common sense.
Letting Iran work out their own problems is the best thing we could do since the USA is not going to apologize for any of our crimes.
"Iran is way behind us." What does that mean? Seems to me they have a few thousand years of civilization ahead of us.
Just because Iran has been around a few thousand years doesn't make them civilized.
Personally I think the fact that Iran has been around so long and yet they still deny women equality or homosexuals the right to live as they wish shows just how far behind they are.
Within 10 years homosexuals will have full protection under title 9 and the freedom to marry whom ever they wish in the US. Iran has been around nearly ten times longer than we have and yet they still execute homosexuals....
Wanna know what is one of the major obstacles in Muslim countries?
How bout the fact they still deny roughly half the population the right to work. Do you know what would happen to the US economy if women had to quit their jobs and stay at home?
So yeah we are a bit ahead of them.
"Within 10 years homosexuals will have full protection under title 9 and the freedom to marry whom ever they wish in the US. Iran has been around nearly ten times longer than we have and yet they still execute homosexuals...."
No thanks to the right wingers. The right wingers who still compare homosexuality to bestiality and paedophilia.
"Wanna know what is one of the major obstacles in Muslim countries?
How bout the fact they still deny roughly half the population the right to work. Do you know what would happen to the US economy if women had to quit their jobs and stay at home?"
Indonesia is not a Muslim country? Malaysia is not a Muslim country? Turkey is not a Muslim country. Etc. Remember when some people in the US, and the west, whined in fear about the Islamists coming to power in Turkey? The sky (in Turkey) still hasn't fallen yet. Here's a hint to right wingers like you, and also the anti-imperialist left: the Wahhabists, the Taliban, and the extremists such as Ahmadinejad do not represent all of Islam.
While I too am embarrassed by the denial of equality for homosexuals i personally think that denying someone the right to marry is a bit less offensive then denying that someone the right to live...
I know it's just reflexive to blame the right wing for all the flaws we have but try to think it through here; California is the most reliable democratic state in the nation and It was a Democratic Pres that enacted Don't ask Don't tell likewise the current Pres is likewise Democratic.
Dems and Reps share this embarrassment.
You also ignore the basic thrust of my comment. I know we each have significant flaws in our societies but the fact that Iran has been in existence nearly ten times as long as we does look pretty bad on them.
Turkey is nothing like Iran, while turkey has an Islamic party currently in power the nation itself is still secular. Iran on the other hand is a theocratic nation although it may not be one for long. Seems the people have finally decided they want true democracy.
I will acknowledge i erred in my comment about Muslim countries. I didn't mean to imply all of them. My intent was to reference to the Middle East. I was to general in my comment.
"the Wahhabists, the Taliban, and the extremists such as Ahmadinejad do not represent all of Islam."
No, not all but they do control most of the Middle East.
"While I too am embarrassed by the denial of equality for homosexuals i personally think that denying someone the right to marry is a bit less offensive then denying that someone the right to live...
I know it's just reflexive to blame the right wing for all the flaws we have but try to think it through here; California is the most reliable democratic state in the nation and It was a Democratic Pres that enacted Don't ask Don't tell likewise the current Pres is likewise Democratic.
Dems and Reps share this embarrassment."
I said nothing about the Republicans or the Democrats. I said the right. How many on the right, whether Democrats, Republicans, or whatever, are willing to support equality without equivocation? Compare the response on LGBT rights articles or posts on left wing sites with those on right wing sites. Whenever a right wing, or Republican politician dares to even suggest considering equality, all hell breaks loose on him / her.
Furthermore, the battle over LGBT equality is NOT limited to simply marriage. Certain members of various anti LGBT rights groups have publicly admitted that they personally favour criminalisation. "Curing" homosexuality and "sissyness" is very popular among many anti LGBT groups, especially the "hate the sin, not the sinner" groups. Pretty much all LGBT equality groups do not limit their focus to simply marriage. In fact, some of on the right have already shifted their focus from marriage, to transgender rights, since in their opinion, that will be an easier fight for the right.
"Turkey is nothing like Iran, while turkey has an Islamic party currently in power the nation itself is still secular. Iran on the other hand is a theocratic nation although it may not be one for long. Seems the people have finally decided they want true democracy. "
Well, yes. That is my point. Turkey is nothing like Iran. The Islamists in Turkey are nothing like the Wahhabists. Indonesia is nothing like Saudi Arabia. Malaysia is nothing like Qatar. Iran itself has various forms of (Shia) belief. Sufi Islam is nothing like the Taliban extremism. My point is that Islamic belief is diverse. Not too dissimilar from Christian belief. James Dobson is not representative of all Christian belief. Catholic priests in Ireland and the US who abuse little boys are not representative of all Christian, or even Catholic belief.
"No, not all but they do control most of the Middle East."
Ah...oil.
You said right wing. The right wing refers to a segment of the Republican Party. That is Political Science 101. Unless of course you are referring to the original right wing which would mean you were talking about the French Revolution.
We live in society that encourages freedom of speech. Whether or not some homophobic group disapproves of gays is irrelevant. The Supreme Court has declared that homosexual acts are protected by the Constitution. In a short period of time that protection will extend to marriage.
I know marriage isn't the only issue. Read back and you'll see i referred to title nine as well.
I don't know why you're engaging in a debate about the merits of religion. NOWHERE did i compare Christianity to Islam. In fact i used the term Muslim for that every reason.
Who cares what God they pray to?
I am talking about civilization. How civilized is the Iranian society?
Seeing how Urban settlements 9000 years old can be traced back to Iran and yet in all that time they still haven't learned that suppressing women, executing homosexuals, denying the rights to assemble and freedom of speech, and in most importantly in 9000 years they still haven't learned what democracy is-having a unelected council ban any candidate that isn't 'worthy' is not democratic- yes they are a bit behind us.
I don't say that to be ethnocentric b/c I'll admit that there are other nation, in fact most of Europe, that are ahead of us.
Saudi Arabia was repressive before they found oil there.
"You said right wing. The right wing refers to a segment of the Republican Party. That is Political Science 101."
No it doesn't. It is the Republicans and Democrats who think that it does.
"We live in society that encourages freedom of speech. Whether or not some homophobic group disapproves of gays is irrelevant. The Supreme Court has declared that homosexual acts are protected by the Constitution. In a short period of time that protection will extend to marriage."
Has the Supreme Court ruled that DOMA is unconstitutional yet? And if it does, would the right wingers start ranting about states rights, and activist judges then?
"I don't know why you're engaging in a debate about the merits of religion. NOWHERE did i compare Christianity to Islam. In fact i used the term Muslim for that every reason.
Who cares what God they pray to? "
I AM comparing Christian belief to Islamic belief. Me, not you.
James Dobson is Christian. Catholic priests in the US and Ireland who sexually abuse little boys are Christians. That does not mean all Christians sexually abuse little boys.
The Wahabbists are Muslims. The Taliban are Muslim. That does not mean all Muslims share the views of the Wahabbists or the Taliban.
"Saudi Arabia was repressive before they found oil there."
Well yes. That is my point. This is the thread of the conversation:
rfloh: "the Wahhabists, the Taliban, and the extremists such as Ahmadinejad do not represent all of Islam."
steelgray: No, not all but they do control most of the Middle East.
Why does the fact that the Wahhabists and the extremists control most of the Middle East matter? Why does that matter in a view of global Islamic belief in general, hmm? There are roughly 200 million Muslims in Indonesia, to pick an example. There are many Muslims living outside the Middle East. Muslims in India. Muslims in China. Something that neither the right nor the anti-imperialist left, with their obsessive focus on the Middle East, on the Wahabbists and the Taliban, want to think about.
Alright, you go on and make up your own definition of the political parties...just don't expect other people to know what you're talking about.
The Supreme Court will in the not too distant future be making a ruling on DOMA. Prop 8 has just been appealed to a Federal Court. The age old distpute of Federalism will last forever but i can't see how the court would promote sexual preference discrimination. Yes the Court will be dragged into the dispute but it is inevitable they will hear a case over DOMA.
IF i'm talking about civilized society why do you keep talking to me about religion?
You seem to have a difficult time understanding the topic.
Why are you all caught up on Muslims anyway? I'm talking about peoples actions, what they do, not what they believe in. Wahhabists or atheist matters not.
The tread of this conversation is how Iran, even though one of the oldest cultures, is one of the most unprogressive cultures in the world.
"Why are you all caught up on Muslims anyway? I'm talking about peoples actions, what they do, not what they believe in. Wahhabists or atheist matters not. "
What they do is influenced by what they believe in. Not all granted, but some, do genuinely believe what they believe, even the extremists. Which is equally true of Christians.
"Alright, you go on and make up your own definition of the political parties...just don't expect other people to know what you're talking about."
Right wing isn't even necessarily a definition for any particular political party. It is only those who can only see politics through the prism of the Republicans and the Democrats who think that the term automatically equals the Republicans, or certain elements of them.
"The Supreme Court will in the not too distant future be making a ruling on DOMA. Prop 8 has just been appealed to a Federal Court. The age old distpute of Federalism will last forever but i can't see how the court would promote sexual preference discrimination. Yes the Court will be dragged into the dispute but it is inevitable they will hear a case over DOMA."
The Supreme Court MIGHT be making a ruling. The case has only just begun.
The Persians were doing all right until they became Muslims in the mid seventh century. Actually, they were doing all right until we got involved way back in the 50s and put the Shah in power. Iran will never forgive us for that. The backlash put Fundamentalists in power. We are ahead of them when it comes to human rights, several centuries ahead. But I bet they could still teach us a few things about being civilized.
Comment deleted by author.
Iran is like any other country. Laws and the kinds of enforcements that take place may vary from region to region place to place. Public outcry can significantly influence the behavior of prosectors and judges. There are also appeals processes which can grind on for years and maybe be limited by class and other financial constraits. Then, of course, there are unresolved constitutuional conflicts.
Just like in the U.S. it is possible to find individual instances of gross injustice and then make absurd generalizations about the whole system.
It would be unwise for women to go about without much of a head-covering in the poorer, fundamentalist districts from which Ahmad Nejad gleans his base support, or to engage in loud, late-night parties involving alcohol. Yet in other more exclusive districts and resorts these behaviors are more and less routine. This is part of the on-going problem today. Many privleged Iranians don't like the way the President is pressing them with norms to which they have grown accustomed to ignoring. This is one of the things the demonstrations are all about, the claim of "election abuse" apparently being a kind of red herring, or excuse to more clearly "legitimize" the protests.
Ah yes. Those opposing Ahmadinejad are only doing so because they are "priveleged" Iranians who want to drink and party.
" In his latest broadside against the pro-democracy protesters in Tehran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has accused his political opponents of ‘officially recognising thieves, homosexuals and scumbags’ in order to win their votes.
The remarks were made in a televised victory speech"
http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk
/Archive
/09/Jun/1901.htm
So, now, Ahmadinejad does concede that homosexuals exists in Iran. They are just like thieves and scumbags.
That's the difference between Ahmadinejad and his opponents, no matter how repressive they are. He's a small minded little homophobe who hasn't learned to control that toilet mouth.
Once again, discrimination and harassment of gays seems to be a much bigger problem in those countries which are nominally our allies, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. In this respect the international gay rights movement reproduces some of the same behavioral patterns of the national security ideology.. as Andrew Bachevich notes in his book "The Limits of Power: "it does not operate as an operational checklist. It imposes no specific obligations. It functions the way ideology so often does- not to divine truth or to even make sense of things, but to provide a highly elastic rationale for action ( self-edifying pronouncements).. it does not mandate action in support of its ideals in every case, no matter how heavy the yoke of oppression people bear."