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Published on Sunday, June 7, 2009 by The Denver Post
Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths
As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.
Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.
Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.
To read the full article, go here.
© 2009 The Denver Post
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140 Comments so far
Show AllGreat article and thank you!
---Yes--Thanks---it's the facts we should be deciding on---not fears based on misinformation...
thanks to the fawning corporate media we have a situation in this country whereby the argument is made that no health care is better than some health care
there is no real discussion of real health care whatsoever
americans should be coming to grips with the overwhelming reality that the country is run for and by the corporations and they don't care about you
they control the media, they control the schools, they control the government
this all adds up to one large "fuck you" when it comes to the health of the sheeple
economic or physical health
americans should ask themselves why it is that of all the industrialized countries we are the only one with no health care
why is that
the answer is clear as a bell
corporations can make more money in fact denying health care than they can in making a single payer system
the fact that these decisions are made by corporations tells you all you need to know about the reality of health care
american "can do" has become sheeple "can't do anything"
factoid number one:
we die so corporations can make money in health care
factoid number two:
we pay huge military bills - in fact we don't pay them we rack them up on the credit card - so that corporations can make money abroad
factoid umber three:
we are the biggest suckers in th history of the modern world
Not that I support the American system, (I don't) but what about these reports I read of people who can afford it coming down to the US to get an MRI or Cat Scan because they had to wait too long in Canada to get one? IS this a weakness in the Canadian system that should be addressed or is this a myth that should be debunked as well?
She did address this. People who go down to the US for Cat Scans or Mris generally do not have an urgent need for one or they do not want to wait in Canada to get one.
I had one of each taken and my wait was 3 days on the MRI and a few weeks on the CAT scan. The few weeks on the Cat scan was my own doing because I did not want to take the time off work to get one right away.
They often use the Number of MRIS in the States versus those in Canada per capita as "proof" the US system better. This is not proof at all. The US duplicates many of its services between health care providers. As example Canadas MRIS in major cities often sit idle because they Staff does not work 24/7. So think about a for profit model. If you want to invest in an MRI you will want to use it as often as possible even if not medically needed.
As an example there ARE clinics offering MRIS and Cat scans here in Vancouver on a private basis. It still being debated whether this this a violation of the health act but in any case...
These guys run ads on the radio every day suggesting that people come in and get an MRI. Its presented as a "must do" wherein getting an MRI is like going to the Dentists twice a year to get your teeth cleaned. Are they really needed?
Now she also touched on another major reason for that and that being question of geography.
Look at a map of Canada. The vast majority of people live along a 150 mile strip along the border. There are lots of remote towns that can not afford to buy MRIS . Even were they privately run under a for profit model, no company would invest MRIS in towns to support a population of only a few hundred or a few thousand.
Yes it often easier to fly one of these people down to the States to get a scan.
That is more a failing of population size and geography then it is of Single payer.
sheesh .. there are so mnay people in the USA who have "insurance" and STILL wait WEEKS for their appointment. that's a FACT.
so what's all that boasting about the US "system" being more efficient and delivering better care?
many of the so-called "more efficient" treatments are often UNNECESSARY "diagnoses" -- many of them WRONG and lifethreatening -- and are done BECAUSE of the PATCHWORK PRIVATIZED system - which has its disparate "vested interests" who wish to make a PROFIT, a CUT , in the "process" of "dealing with health care CUSTOMER or 'client' " as the USA loves to use these fancy terms.
nursing home residents are given "treatments" they really have no longer any use for -- except to prolong their lives miserably -- as GUINEA PIGS for the pharmaceutical industry....
while cutting costs on REAL HUMAN CARING such as paying decent wages and good working conditions and hours and benefits for the health care workers - but instead making them "responsible" for as much work as possible, with as little time to do it as possible, with as FEW staff as possible
and then old people -- inevitably get neglected - or are treated like cattle...
ALL IN SERVICE of the pharmaceutical, insurance and medical doctor industries.
THIS is "civilized?"
No, Teddy, it's not civilized. Neither are the constant radio ads and flyers sent out to communities (my Episcopal church , God help us, has a stack of them) from an outfit called "Lifeline Screening," scaring people into paying them some ridiculous amount to go and get "screened" for various diseases of old age. The same outfit advertises on my local Air America Radio outlet, God help us! These people, and all like them, are the scum of the earth. And they exist because we don't have a national healthcare program.
"so what's all that boasting about the US "system" being more efficient and delivering better care? "
Um, it's called a lie.
in canada you can get these procedures in twenty minutes if you pay yourself
same as here
After breaking my back while riding a bike in Canada I got an MRI a week after going to the doc to complain that the pain wasn't going away (it still hasn't, but that's not because of a lack of care or doctors. It's because breaking your back is a rather bad thing to do to yourself...)
The only out of pocket expenses I've had due to the back is the cost of the painpills (not oxycotin, and I don't take them anymore) and the price of the ambulance. I suppose you could include the price of the ymca membership that helps to keep the weight down, but that's not really a medical expense. I'd hate to think of what I'd have had to pay if I had such an injury in the states.
You might want to consider the source of such anecdotes, as well. Kind of like the "urban legends" of crazy court cases used to scare people into supporting judgment caps in tort reform-- in the end, these carefully crafted myths stay in the public mind and prove to be effective propaganda campaigns untraceable to their original sources.
Again, as the article states, the reason for waits isn't an unwillingness to pay, but lack of available practitioners in more rural areas -- a worldwide problem that has nothing to do with the health insurance system. What happens to Americans whose insurance companies deny the MRIs that their doctors order?
Ironically, the availability of care COULD be addressed by actual socialized medicine -- we could recruit, train and distribute a medical force (like a military) where and when it is needed. But it is all private, so doctors, nurses and therapists live wherever there is a market for their services and generally in the nicer places that most highly educated folks tend to want to live.
I found interesting your comment about where Canadian vs US tax dollars go. In Canada they are returned as benefits for the public. In the US, they disappear into foreign adventures (war) and into the insatiable maw of the MIC. We lose. The amazing part is the US public lets it happen.
There was a time when the US was much like Canada on how taxes were spent. But that was pre-Reagan. Public universities were publicly funded and anyone could afford to go to college. Now they are funded by the military industrial complex and costs to students have astronomically skyrocketed.
Just as I thought we would become a fascist country before people realized it, we are becoming a third world country before people realize it. We are being ground into dust.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Quite frankly, as a Canadian, I do not mind paying higher taxes as long as I see the Government giving a return for the money and that return does not have to beenfit me personaly.
If you look at the Nordic countries they are of much the same mind set. They are perfectly willing to pay higher taxes because the Governments TEND to spend the revenues on bettering the lot of the people then the Corporations.
The FACTS are, contrary to the myths advanced by those suppporters of "The free market" Governmnets can provide services fare more cheaply then can Private Industry. Governments properly run can be far more efficient.
GwNorth wrote:
"Quite frankly, as a Canadian, I do not mind paying higher taxes as long as I see the Government giving a return for the money and that return DOES NOT HAVE TO BENEFIT ME PERSONALLY. (emphasis mine)"
And that, Gw, succinctly states the stark difference between Canadians and USAns. The idea of supporting something that one does not benefit personally would be incomprehensible to virtually all USANs.
From the "comments" section of the news stories on the Toronto Star web site - and some reports from a brother who lives there, I suspect the "what's in it for me" attitude is becoming increasing common in Canada too, especially (just like the US) in the the suburban areas. It looks like the specter of Ronald Reagan may be stalking Canada.
If the Canadian health system does encounter problems, it is because it will be deliberated sabotaged by starving it of funding, then when service deteriorates, the Right will declare "See? Socialistic government-run health insurance doesn't work!"
Go Penguins!
>>From the "comments" section of the news stories on the Toronto Star web site - and some reports from a brother who lives there, I suspect the "what's in it for me" attitude is becoming increasing common in Canada too, especially (just like the US) in the the suburban areas
This is certainly true but it my opinion that this trend will reverse itself once again shortly. We have an advantage in that such "trends" take a longer time to take hold In Canada...I think that as more examples of the "whats in it for me and the hell with everyone else policies" drift up from the USA more Canadians turn against it.
As example we had a brain drain for a while and this has since reversed itself. A Good number of Doctors/nurses and the like of tried the "whats in it for me" and not liked it.
An economic downturn can do wonders for the "whats in it for me attitude".
I hope your are right. But I remain skeptical that the trend will reverse itself.
Actually the tax situation in the states is far worse than you realize. In Canada we're mostly paying off our national debt, not this year or next probably but that's not too worrisome yet. In the states you owe 10 trillion in debt. That debt is costing you billions in interest that needs to come from somewhere. Then there's the unfunded obligations like pensions, infrastructure repair and buildings (roads, bridges and levies). Given what you really owe your taxes should be taking in at least 30-40 percent from everyone, but to do that during an economic downturn would be suicide for the economy.
The kicker is that if you don't start paying your fair share of taxes, should you rely on inflating your way out of the economic mire the pols have led you into, you'll end up paying far more than mere money.
Saturnalia, surely you jest. We haven't invested in infrastructure for 30 years now. This country is seriously a mess. But it's not far worse than some of us realize. It is true that most Americans have been living like a frog in a pot of water getting hotter. They've had to start losing their jobs and getting thrown out of their homes to realize there's a problem.
That's what you get when you don't pay attention, as Ralph Nader warned 10 years ago. So Obama was elected to save us but guess what. He had other plans. It didn't take him long to convince me I would like to see him a one termer. I didn't have high hopes for him as President, but he has vastly exceeded my worst expectations. He's doing what every Democratic President has done, pissing on progressives after aggressively courting them. That was a really fast flip from populist to corporate whore. But hey, he gives a good speech and has a pretty smile. Let's see how long that holds up while the rich go on getting richer and the rest of us go under water. I hear the bankers are still going to get their bonuses and their jets. Heaven forbid they be held to account for what they've done to our economy.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
Absolutely. I have thought exactly the same.
"Just as I thought we would become a fascist country before people realized it, we are becoming a third world country before people realize it" - BeForKids, you said a mouthful.
I wish to god there was some way I could control where my tax dollars go. We're on a Public Employees Retirement (before anyone freaks out, my husband was a mechanic for the local transit system, fixing filthy buses all day long) and our taxes are taken out before we see a dime. They are required to do things that way. I don't just let it happen, I'm forced to let it happen.
Now here's a nifty twist: we recently found out that since the banksters stole everyone's retirement accounts, the PERS is hurting. So after next year they are not going to pay their share of medical insurance to employees' spouses who are under 55. (guess who) We could still get the insurance but would have to pay all the premiums ourselves. They suggested that these younger people would be better able to go out and get jobs of their own that would provide health insurance. As if there were ANY jobs available, let alone for 50 year old housewives with nothing but a 32 year old high school diploma, let alone jobs that provide health care. Assuming I could possibly work a 40 hour week. HA. HA.
We made retirement plans based on promises of healthcare and income. Turns out that the cost of medical insurance for one spouse would equal everything we have left after paying the mortgage. So its health care vs. eating, electricity, phone, internet and you get the picture.
I started out working for single payer health care because I think it is a way to bring mercy and humanity to Americans as a first step to bringing mercy and humanity to the rest of the world; if we care about our own countrymen then next we could care about the rest of the passengers on this wild ride of a planet. Looks like I'm going to need my help.
elainem,
Good post! We are witnessing the biggest theft of money in human history by the most successful group of swindlers, shysters, and shylocks on Wall Street, ever, thanks to the corrupt politicians in the Republican/Democratic parties who have sold out the American people to the lobbyists and looters. The repercussions are worldwide.
Keep fighting and informing others on the value and necessity of single payer health care. The Insurance and pharmaceutical monopolists have funded millions of dollars in campaigns to discredit single payer. We all need each other's help. This is a national scandal and a disgrace!
In the rightwing media outlets, the smear about the Canadian healthcare system is never elucidated, its simply smeared, and left to the imagination of the uneducated to fill in the blanks. 'If we don't watch out, we'll end up like CANADA!!!' (Queue the horror music: Dahnt dahnt DA!!)
Substitute your favorite topic:
'If we don't watch out, the government will take over the banks completely!!!' (Dahnt dahnt DA!!)
'....our children will all be gay!!!' (Dahnt dahnt DA!!!)
'... we'll all have to pray toward Mecca 5 times a day!!!' (Dahnt dahnt DA!!!)
Hey you have gay Muslim groups in the US as well. I mean groups where gay Muslims get together to practice their faith!
But in Canada I can find you a Muslim group who is against the SPP (ie NAFTA on steroids). This is the charter of the Canadian Muslim Union - reading between the lines I think they support the Canadian Health Care system:
# We believe the separation of religion and state should be respected in all matters of public policy.
# We oppose the fanaticism and extremism that afflicts some elements within the Muslim community.
# We believe gender equity is enshrined in Islam and will work to ensure that it is practiced in our Mosques and our Communities.
# We believe that homophobia has no place in our society and will oppose it where ever we find it.
# We will work for a progressive, equitable and accessible public policies in Canada.
# We will work to build a Canada where personal initiative and creativity are celebrated and rewarded, but not at the cost of our responsibility towards the broader community.
# We will work to build communities free from the ravages of racism, intolerance, ignorance, disease, and poverty.
# We will work for a world where religion becomes a force of joy, enlightenment, democracy, peace and bridge-building, rather than hate, oppression, war and division.
# We support the right of people around the world to live free from oppression and with economic and social justice for all.
We always hear the slur "socialized" medicine to describe single payer. But you never hear this about the defense department. There single payer is AOK and contracts are handed out on a cost plus basis. There is no set price for any of this advanced and useless weaponry. We the taxpayers are socked for "socialized" defense everyday. But if we decide to stop building bombs and weapons that kill people in mud huts and instead invest in our own people's healthcare and education - well, that's socialist.
What B.S.
"Socialized medicine" bad.
"Socialized warfare is GOOD"
logarithmic,
I agree! You said it well.
USans' resistance to socialized healthcare (and similar in all sectors, e.g. co-op workshops) amid clear evidence of its great superiority is exactly the intended outcome of the elites' highly successful propaganda campaigns. The ultimate elite goal is world conquest (after successful conquest of the US population) through "soft power" mechanisms and the means include cultivation of a consumerist mindset domestically that gives the elites the role of thinking and decision-making, and the people the role of working and consuming, to ensure the US economy is the biggest/baddest on the planet.
The elites have not so much a problem with the morality of socialism being the polar opposite of their own, but that socialism tends to deliver BEST VALUE, such as the Canadian healthcare system delivering twice the value of the US system, and the Cuban system delivering another five to ten times that. Higher value means less economic activity for the same result. But US elites want MORE economic activity for the same result, thus upward price pressure (in massive systemic violation of anti-collusion laws in place) in the healthcare sector, education, transport, military, and all the rest.
If you want more of the same be sure to vote elite candidates in the elections as they are thrilled to have your consent for their anti-social enteprise. Alternatively you may vote third party progressive candidates to help steer the nation toward common sense market demands and public policies of BEST VALUE (what people outside the USA instinctively demand). Make yourself into an informed and responsible actor in the economic and civic spheres. Demand best value, e.g. socialized healthcare, education, transport, and infrastructure for the local SMALL-SCALE farmer, craftsman, merchant economy.
This is one of the best insights I've seen here. Nobody gets rich in an optimized system, because in order for it to be optimal, resources need to be distributed and utilized fairly evenly. This challenges the conventional wisdom of capitalism -- economy of scale, accumulation of profits to be reinvested, etc. -- in a big way. Could it be that profits are evidence of INefficiency, rather than the other way around? Sure looks like it in health care and military spending.
I think your insight is one of the best I've seen here. Great post!
A question previously asked; how can the most wealthy nation in the history of the world have such a dysfunctional health care system?
On another note, is not the extremely efficient Medicare program for seniors an almost exact copy of the Canadian program, and if its efficiency is not disputed, why isn't it being promoted as the framework for an overall program?
Medicare in the States is one of the best examples to use AGAINST The health for profit Industry.
This is Why respective Governments are trying their best to BREAK medicare. The Bernankes/Norquists/Greenspans and the like all call for cuts to Medicare in order to balance the budgets while at the same time spending trillions on the banking industry.
As the quality of medicare declines it will be blamed on "Socialized medicine". Private for profit health care can then say "See GOVERMENT programs do not work".
In a place like Sweden, a Government that set up an efficient health care system that offered single payer and high quality care to all its citizens would be proud of the achievement and seek to make it better.
In the USA Government Officials that did the same seem to want to break it. They do not take pride in it. They condemn it every chance they get.
The reasons are obvious. Ones Constituency is the people, and in the others it the Corporations.
GwNorth,
Very good post, except for a minor disagreement. They really don't care about balancing the budget. They want to cut all social benefits for society and put more money into the war machine, erroneously called, "the defense budget," and para-military police forces, swat teams, and mercenaries, ( "contractors," ), to protect themselves and their wealthy cronies from the lethargic public, if and when they ever come out of this trance-like state, and realize who the real enemy is.
"A question previously asked; how can the most wealthy nation in the history of the world have such a dysfunctional health care system?"
That all depends on how you define "wealth."
If you mean that Americans live in bigger homes than people anywhere else in the world, then we are wealthy.
If you mean that Americans own more and bigger cars and drive more miles than anyone else, then we are wealthy.
If you mean that Americans spend more money on war and corporate welfare, then we are wealthy.
If you mean that Americans are the fattest people in the world, then we are wealthy.
However, if you look at Americans' overall health, and look at our individual and national debt, then it is plain that we are already a second world country on our way down. In short, we are definitely NOT wealthy. Not anymore.
As for our dysfunctional health care system - it simply mirrors the rest of our dysfunction. We are dysfunctional people living in a dysfunctional system controlled by a few highly functioning, yet amorally sociopathic, people...who want us to be this way.
Thanks for the information. This should come in handy as the disinformation storms start to blow.
I heard that the life expectancy of Canadians--which used to be the same as in the U.S.--are now a couple of years longer than ours. Other nations look on us with a mixture of amusement and pity.
Other nations look on us with a mixture of amusement and pity.
let's add fear
especially if you live in iraq, afghanistan iran, venezueala, russia, china, pakistan.............
get the point
amusement pity and fear
quite the melange
Thank you for an enlightening article. As a person who has been a healthcare professional for the last 35 years as well as a patient, who occasionally seeks medical care, I can attest to the mess we all have to deal with on a daily basis. I for one, support the idea of a single payer system. I have seen way too many people be denied care their MD ordered and I have actually seen patients die because some health insurance company refused care or treatment. Profits are the god all business people worship and unless we get rid of the for-profit system of business, nothing substantial is ever going to change in this country.
And yes, you can get any type of treatment, scan or meds you want in this country if you pay cash. AND the main reason we have so many MRI, CAT scan, etc is because everyone wants a piece of the revenue pie these machines generate; no matter how small a sliver. But, the price of the treatment never seem to go down, no matter how much competition there is. . .I wonder why?!
I will gladly take the Canadian system, in some form or fashion over what we have now. I would same me a hugh chunk of time in trying to find coverage for patients whose medical insurance policies refuse to cover their needed care
You are a person of CONSCIENCE -- that has not forgotten WHY you are a medical care professional.
it is like anything a means of living , a means of earning to MAKe a living....
BUT you are ethical for remembering that a "MEANS OF EARNING" is also truly only worthwhile if it is for the GOOD that it can do for others as well as yourself.
IN THAT -- when properly functioning in a properly functioning society -- comes or ought to come what people everywhere say is the SOURCE of
what we ALL wish for in our existence:
the JOY OF LIVING
because it includes the JOY of giving and doing what you can do BEST to your abilities because they are HELPFUL and BENEFICIENT towards others..
but it is clear that as a society -- the USA has become a source of only "MONEY" profiteering...and it has removed the JOY of living, because everything is about GRASPING what one can for oneself to the detriment of others -- and ultimately
to oneself or even those close to one.
the USA truly has become a place of CORRUPTING of humans.
as the Former CIA "economic Hitman" john perkins in recent months revealed:
"we are an empire..the largest the world has know...but we have gotten away with building this empire through manipulation, torture, assassinations, covert and overt wars, instigating destabilizations against uncooperative governments to our chamber of commerce...our American Empire Project is designed to PERMANENTLY subjugate other countries to our will...i was part of that Empire Building Project for 30 years".
"What most americans don't fully realize is: we are just living our way of life, our lifestyles, ONLY BECAUSE it is PART of a VERY , VERY VICIOUS SYSTEM of exploitation that DEHUMANIZES and ENSLAVES people everywhere".
Sioux Rose
TEDDY: Good post. As to the dearth of joy, the statistics on the numbers being prescribed anti-depressant "medications" proves your point!
Here is another myth about the Canadian healthcare system: universal coverage for all canadians. NOT TRUE.
In three out of the ten provinces citizens must pay health care premiums of up to a thousand dollars a year, depending on income.
Recently in British Columbia i went to a hospital emergency room to have a wrist injury examined. To my surprise i was informed that i was an 'uninsured citizen' and would have to pay $360.00 to see a doctor. Apparently when my bankruptcy was discharged that cancelled my enrollment in the medicare plan. So i ended up going to a private clinic and paying $60.00.
So in three provinces (British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec) there is no universal coverage. If you can't pay the premiums, you are not covered at all.
Interesting. I Live in BC and had moved here from Alberta. There was a period where I was between jobs and stopped paying those premiums and broke an ankle. I was not charged for the hospital visit.
That was many years ago so things might hvae changed. I really see no point to those premiums myself.
When you are enrolled and stop paying the premiums, your coverage continues, and the premium debt piles up. My debt to MSP had reached about $8000.00. I could still go to a hospital and be treated as long as i didn't cancel enrollment and accepted the debt.
When i declared bankrupcy, it cancelled not only the debt to medicare but also the enrollment. Therefore i need to enroll again before i can get treatment (something i didn't know and wasn't told when i declared bankruptcy). So despite being born in canada and having always lived here, i am an 'uninsured citizen' until i re-apply for coverage, provided last years tax information, fill out and mail in forms (there is no place you can go to apply), wait out the waiting period (up to two months) and PAY THE FEES.
There is no 'universal coverage' or free medicare for canadian citizens living in BC.
If you have been paying premiums and your financial situation changes, all you have to do is apply for premium assistance. It is NOT calculated solely on the basis of your previous year's income; stuff happens, people lose their jobs, and yes, go bankrupt. I should know; I worked for MSP. It is next to impossible to get booted off.
It sounds to me as if you were self-employed and simply CHOSE not to pay premiums or apply for premium assistance for YEARS. And now you're whingeing because the system is finally insisting that you get with the program?
And while I'm at it, if your medical problem could have been treated at a clinic, you should have gone to one in the first place, instead of wasting hospital resources.
What "whingeing"? Where did i complain?
Simply stating facts. Coverage is not universal, i.e. being a canadian citizen does not mean you are covered - at least in the three provinces where you must apply for coverage and pay monthly premiums.
That's a fact.
Yes, the premiums may be subsidized under certain circumstances, at least in BC.
The fact remains - no universal free medicare in Canada. Just easy to get and you might consider it cheap.
Now if you are going to say i should pay anyway in case something goes wrong, you are saying i should buy insurance. Exactly. That is what you have to do in BC, Ontario, and Quebec. Buy health insurance.
Personally i don't consider a thousand dollars a year for the pharmaceutical based medical system we have cheap at all. I only go to these quacks for grievous physical injury like broken bones, which they are good at fixing. So three times in four decades i have gone for stitches or casts. Hardly worth forty thousand dollars in premiums.
Climb all over someone else about wasting health care dollars. I am vegetarian, physically active and fit, and treat myself for any illness, with herbs or yoga or chiropractors or whatever is appropriate. None of the appropriate things are offered by doctors, or covered by medicare.
Even a lifetime of paying premiums would amount to a mere fraction of what it will cost to treat you when your body meets speeding bus or you blow an aneurysm or need a bone marrow transplant. Yes, you should BUY insurance, or apply for premium assistance if you can't afford it, if you want to be covered. You're a cheater, plain and simple. Sickening.
>>>truenorth: I am vegetarian, physically active and fit, and treat myself for any illness, with herbs or yoga or chiropractors or whatever is appropriate.
That's my story too, except that I do buy insurance for me and my family, even though we know that we are subsidizing others who are not so careful with what they eat or how they live. Same with the auto insurance - I hardly drive - but my premius are the same as someone else's that drives 100+ miles everyday.
>>>Personally i don't consider a thousand dollars a year for the pharmaceutical based medical system we have cheap at all.
Sometimes I wish they would put more pressure on everyone to lead a healthier life and drive less, so the premiums can be more reasonable. Or, if they insist on eating meat all their lives and end up with a heart disease or something that directly results from their diet and lifestyle, I think they ought to be paying more their care. Just a simple matter of fairness!
A thousand dollars a year is a far cry from $1000 plus, (in American dollars) per month that some Americans have told me they pay. I have just moved to BC. In applying for coverage I found out that number one, all residents are required to sign up for health care coverage and number two, my yearly income easily qualifies for 100% subsidy of the monthly fees. It isn't really all that big a deal.For those whose financial state is in a period of flux there are temporary subsidy plans also.
What I find far more disturbing is the way my former province Alberta is trying to nibble away at the system by allowing private for profit medical care for a widening selection of care options for people who have enough money and want to get to the head of the line. This is being done over strong public protest and with the example of what happened to Britan's public health service when they allowed a two tier system.
That is another myth no one looks into - the one where All Premiers support Health Care over getting money from their corporate friends. There has been a right-wing movement to dismantle the Canadian Health Care system - and it is being funded by the American Insurance industry. If the US adopts even a BC version of single payer then those trying to dismantle the Canadian system lose their income.
Vaudree, good point. I read some years ago that the US insurance industry started funding Canadian politicians to defund their health care system and it's working. Obviously health care funding needs to be kept out of the hands of politicians. Reptiles are more charitable.
When the people fear their government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty.
~ Thomas Jefferson
the article confirms what my own sister and her family in canada have told me. they are immigrants from asia ...and years ago went "shopping" to compare which country to eventually settle in after their early retirements and where to bring up their children .
the entire family collectively decided -- canada.
the children themselves were smart enough to see that there was nothing the USA offered them for their adulthood or as they were growing up worth the packing.
they are CERTAINLY very happy being in canada - notwithstanding the daily challenges that are common to all families anywhere.
Health Care concerns don't even become a discussion for them. any of them feel ill or something -- they have no worries that they will get the treatment without bankrupting themselves or even wrapping their entire existence on trying to be "secure" about "coverage" as americans are driven to .
it's really very simple:
a society that is advanced has NO EXCUSE to have such a POOR application of health care by turning it into a monetized function for the sake of upholding the concept of "profit" as its reason for existence.
that is tantamount to BARBARISM.
even poor countries that really can't afford a pittance of health coverage for their citizens STILL at least STRUGGLE to ensure that their own citizens have SOME measure of relief from what NATURE dictates to us as living beings -- that we GET SICK sooner or later --
and we will need care as a reflection of our individual worth as human beings and living creatures, regardless of status in life.
against THAT contrast with poor countries that at least TRY despite their limited financial resources -- that they RECOGNIZE that health is really a RIGHT , not a privilege, no matter how much they can barely manage to help provide that RIGHT --
the USA really should be ashamed of itself for promoting and maintaining BARBARIC PRACTICES:
profiteering upon human weakness and suffering....because that is ultimately what getting sick is about...
our human weaknesses, our human vulnerability....which is part of our existence.
but the USA - JUMPS WITH GLEE on the chance to MAKE A PROFIT on it!!
does one call THAT a real society worth being called CIVILIZED?.
EVEN animals in the wild, such as lions, or whales , or ants
show more CIVILIZED behavior than the USA does in these terms.
I wish I could be more helpful, but Canada, like all modern nations, has its incomprehensible bureaucratic quirks, and immigration is one of them. The only surefire way to get here is through marriage (that's how I did it). There isn't an open door policy for Asians; it's a combination of all the other criteria (refugee, high-demand skills, etc), and once you're here, you can bring family. We have lots of Americans who come to take jobs that they are qualified for. In fact, even w/ NAFTA, it's easier for certain people to come to Canada than to the US. For instance, if you're an American musician with a show here, you just need a contract to cross the border -- no fees, no visa, no wait. If you're a Canadian musician who has a gig in the States, you need a visa that costs several hundred dollars and can take months to get (or you can pay $1000 US for an "expedited" application with no guarantee that you'll actually get approved). But I really do sympathize with your frustration; my life became massively easier the day I became a Canadian.