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Where Did They Come From? The Rise of the Tea Party
US press coverage has usually cast the Tea Party as an authentic expression of popular anger against Washington insiders. Anthony DiMaggio’s new book, Rise of the Tea Party, shatters such myths, demonstrating that the Tea Party has never been a genuine social movement or political outsider but rather an elite-dominated group that was closely linked to the Republican establishment from its inception three years ago. The Tea Party’s goal has been to aid a struggling Republican Party in its efforts to further roll back the social safety net and funnel more wealth and power from workers to the rich. The book’s relevance extends well beyond just the Tea Party, though. DiMaggio uses the group as a case study to explore broader issues of corporate media bias, the rightward shift of US politics in recent decades, and the effects of material and non-material factors in shaping people’s attitudes. The study is really two books in one: an authoritative examination of the Tea Party phenomenon and “a grand theory of public opinion and the larger social forces that influence it” (p. 29).
riseteaparty
The first two chapters critically analyze the Tea Party’s emergence and growth in 2009-10, showing that the organization has never been an independent or mass-based movement. DiMaggio refutes the typical depiction of the group as maverick agitators who cause headaches for Democrats and Republicans alike: from the start the Tea Party and its affiliate groups had close institutional ties to the Republican Party and billionaire Republican sponsors like the Koch brothers. Common claims about the effect of the Tea Party on Congressional Republicans are also misleading. The shift of the Republican Party toward ever more extremist positions cannot be attributed to the influence of the Tea Party faction (and certainly not, as some claim, to any shift in public opinion). As DiMaggio observes, the Republican Party’s rightward shift has been underway for decades. Moreover, there is strong agreement among Tea Party and “moderate” Republicans in Congress on the vast majority of policy questions, belying characterizations of Tea Partiers as challengers to the Republican establishment. The Tea Party’s primary purpose has been to “rebrand” the Republican Party as a populist force and channel votes to Republican candidates in an era when the electorate views the Republican Party (even more so than the Democratic Party) with ever-increasing scorn.
Chapter 2, co-written with DiMaggio’s frequent collaborator Paul Street, offers a ground-level look at Tea Party campaigns in the greater Chicago area, often considered a Tea Party stronghold. The two observed local Tea Party meetings and events throughout 2009 and 2010. The chapter’s provocative title—“The Tea Party Does Not Exist”—conveys two key points: that the Tea Party has very little local presence and that it has never been an independent party but rather “a covert Republican operation” (p. 92). DiMaggio and Street’s research found that most of the typical features of a genuine social movement were lacking. Few chapters were active on the local level, few held regular open meetings, and there was little or no commitment among chapter leaders to movement-building and member empowerment. Meetings that did occur were conducted in a highly authoritarian manner with little open discussion. Chapter leaders engaged in outreach mainly in order to generate turn-out at periodic events that served as thinly-veiled campaign rallies for Republican candidates. Most chapter work was “dominated by partisan electioneering interests” (p. 89). (On these themes see also Street and DiMaggio’s study Crashing the Tea Party[Paradigm, 2011], which complements the current book.)
The US press has played an essential role in creating the illusion of a massive Tea Party uprising, as DiMaggio shows in Chapter 3. In mid-2011 one Tea Party leader admitted that “there would not have been a Tea Party without Fox” (quoted on p. 224). Right-wing outlets like Fox News have been crucial in promoting Tea Party events to increase turn-out and by providing a steady stream of favorable coverage. But centrist and liberal media share the blame. Even when featuring criticisms of it, they have consistently mischaracterized it as an authentic movement anduprising, thus legitimating it, while ignoring the facts presented in Chapters 1 and 2. DiMaggio’s quantitative analysis of press coverage also shows that media have systematically favored the Tea Party over antiwar, anti-corporate, and women’s rights protests, which unlike the Tea Party represent genuine grassroots movements. This pattern of coverage confirms the predictions of Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky’s “propaganda model” regarding media treatment of “worthy” versus “unworthy” protesters.
Another chapter on media coverage focuses on the Tea Party’s obsession in 2009 and early 2010, the healthcare reform debate. DiMaggio finds that media reports on the issue overwhelmingly echoed right-wing propaganda themes—focusing on the alleged costs, debt, and budget deficits that would result from Democratic reform proposals—while failing to acknowledge the real reasons for right-wing opposition. The modest reform proposal of the “public option” received far less media attention, particularly after Congressional Democrats stopped advocating it. Discussion of single-payer or universal healthcare, meanwhile, was virtually absent from news coverage.
DiMaggio goes beyond most studies of media coverage by measuring the effects of propaganda and other forces on public attitudes. In Chapters 4 and 6 he uses poll results to analyze the importance of nine separate factors, both material and “intangible,” in shaping individuals’ attitudes toward the Tea Party and healthcare reform during the period under study. Material factors like race and income play a key role, with whites and the more affluent more likely to support the Tea Party and oppose healthcare reform. Yet DiMaggio concludes that intangible forces like exposure to corporate media and partisan affiliation are ultimately more important in determining people’s opinions. Republican voters, those who watched Fox News, and those who followed Washington-related news reports more closely were much more likely to support the Tea Party and oppose healthcare reform.
One of the most pressing questions regarding the Tea Party phenomenon is why many working-class people have expressed support for it. During 2010 the group grew in popularity among most sectors of the population, not just among the affluent. By August 2010 over half the US public expressed “sympathy” with the Tea Party. DiMaggio is careful to distinguish between the motives of the Tea Party’s elite leadership and those of the ordinary working people who have been attracted to it. The Tea Party may be “a false populist force,” but “the group would be nowhere near as successful if it were not for the legitimate grievances and anger of a general public” (p. 31). Falling real wages, rising inequality, and unresponsive government have all fueled the Tea Party’s popularity, even if its false solutions would intentionally exacerbate such problems. Moreover, many of the people who have expressed support for the Tea Party in fact hold progressive values. One explanation DiMaggio offers for this paradox is that factual ignorance (largely created by media coverage) results in disjunctions between people’s values and attitudes toward specific policies, on one hand, and their opinions of politicians, institutions, and abstract ideas like “healthcare reform,” on the other. For example, individuals may strongly support welfare programs like Medicare or Social Security—as most of the public does—but oppose “welfare” due to the racist and classist propaganda offensive mounted against the idea since the 1970s.
A similar pattern seems to apply to public opinion on a wide range of issues. Most of the public thinks workers should have more income and power, but is more ambivalent toward the idea of unions. The public supports a binding treaty to combat climate change, but over half of Bush voters in 2004 were under the erroneous impression that Bush supported the Kyoto Protocol. To take a recent example, the public overwhelmingly agrees with the Occupy Wall Street movement’s goals of reducing inequality, taxing the rich to fund social programs, and ending corporate domination of government, but stated support for the Occupy movement itself is lower (though still substantial). DiMaggio’s argument about how elites and media coverage “manufacture dissent” against policies that might otherwise enjoy widespread support helps to explain such paradoxes, although further research—particularly at the ethnographic level—will be necessary to more fully understand the reasons for working-class support for the Tea Party and other right-wing forces (working-class racism, sexism, and nationalism are surely important here).
At the same time, DiMaggio also cautions that the cooptation or “false consciousness” of workers and the poor is not as pervasive as analysts like Thomas Frank (the author of What’s the Matter with Kansas?) have implied. Support for Republicans among the white working class is far from universal, and ordinary people frequently see through elite propaganda. Yet the challenge to Frank’s argument is only partial: DiMaggio recognizes “that the less privileged are regularly manipulated into supporting policies that run directly counter to their material interests” (p. 179). Successful manipulation just isn’t as common as some liberals and leftists suggest.
My critiques of the book are few and minor. Though hardly the author’s fault, the book was written too early (November 2010) to take into account interesting recent developments like the Tea Party’s decline in popularity during 2011 or the resurgence of a progressive movement in the United States as embodied in the fall’s Occupy protests (the book’s conclusion, written in August 2011, does address the February union protests in Wisconsin).
A more important critique involves the relative lack of attention to the role of the Democrats in fueling the political discontent upon which the Tea Party has capitalized. For instance, I think the statement that “Republicans successfully took universal healthcare and the public option off the agenda” (p. 192) attributes too much power to the right; top-level Democrats also rejected the idea of universal healthcare and were at best half-hearted advocates of a robust public option. Even prior to late 2009, when Democratic proposals still included the public option, it was by no means clear that the progressive aspects of the legislation would outweigh the negative ones. Public opposition to Democratic healthcare reform seems to have derived not just from right-wing propaganda but also from the corporate-friendly nature of the reform proposals. In a January 2010 CBS News poll, 43 percent of respondents said that “the reforms do not do enough” to restrain private insurance companies (only 27 percent said they “go too far”). DiMaggio does note that Democratic proposals gave huge gifts to insurance companies and that Democrats’ right-wing policies have “contributed to the popularity of the Tea Party” by alienating the public (p. 126), but more attention to this dynamic might have further enriched the analysis. Additional research in the future could help illuminate the process by which right-wing populists appeal to workers disillusioned with Democrats’ unwillingness or inability to pursue meaningful reforms.
The Rise of the Tea Party is the most insightful study of the topic to date (alongside Street and DiMaggio’s Crashing the Tea Party), and usefully situates the Tea Party phenomenon within a broader analysis of public opinion, corporate media, and the US political system. It is essential reading for anyone wishing to understand recent US political history as well as the larger dynamics of domination and hegemony in the United States.
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Show AllWho came to the Koch brothers and Scott walkers defense in Wisconsin, the tea party, bought and paid for by the far right fox news, Murdock, Koch brothers, top one percent, union busting, health care busting, all social safety net busting. These people were not even aware that they were shooting themselves in the foot. Completely taken advantage of by the lies spewing out of the mouths of bastards like Glenn beck, O'Reilly and the rest of fox news and Palin. OWS is not for sale.
You could be right, Fox and Friends initiated a vast and complex covert conspiracy creating the Tea Party or simpler explanation might be that a whole lot of people like my self are tired and fed up with a system in which both parties consistently sell out the people whose interestes they are supposed to represent by spending us all and our children into oblivion. Actually I no sure its fair to include the Democratic Party in this criticism, it is after all clear that they stand for more spending and larger government and are willing to bide their time and make whatever dirty deals they deem necessary to achieve their long term socialist goals. I am sure that for most of your readership these compromises and dirty deals, like the ones Obama has made with Wall Street and Corp. America, are upsetting but maybe you can at least take some satisfaction that goverment is bigger than ever and at current spending levels it won't be long before the whole system fails. If your dream is the replacement of the capitalist system then the current debt crisis surely benefits this goal. As I do not share in this dream I am left with only the Republican party as the only alternative. Unfortunatley the Republican has sold out at every opportunity. I personnaly withdrew all my support and hopes from the Republican party durring Bush's first term. It was becoming very clear that he had no trouble increasing the sized of government and the debt. I found many "Republicans" feeling the same sense of betrayal durring those years but no one knew what to do about it. Since most of us oppose big government we also tend to dislike activism and political rallies. We are sceptical of leaders unlike the left which loves political activism. The final straw was when the dimensions of the bailouts and new social programs like healthcare came into focus durring the first year of Obama's presidency. This was no longer about our immediate future or even retirement, this was now clearly going to impact the future of our children and grandchildren. This is what brought people out on the street, not Fox or the Kockh brothers, sure they joined in. Why wouldn't they? Can you imagine MSNBC or George Sorros not to covering or contributing to the Wall Street Occupiers? Conservatives watch Fox for the same kinds of reasons that Progressives watch MSNBC. There is no mystery here. Birds of a feather flock together. The left has a serious blind spot on this issue because they believe that no intelligent person could ever legitimately disagree with their position. So you have to believe that the innocent, ignorant or stupid masses are being manipulated by some invisible mastermind instead of the obvious facts that clearly indicate otherwise.
We the people need a party. It needs the freedom to work within one of the two (there are always two) parties, or within both if it feels like causing trouble, or within neither party.
I recommend the Dinner Party. 10 million American citizens (and plenty more in other countries) all want to shift their lives around to have room for healing their nation and healing their world. They learn, they protest, they work, they teach. They need your support and you need theirs.
Just plain talking is how we think. By talking aloud, we learn what sounds right and what ideas need editing. By listening to our neighbors, we help them. By simply coming together, we improve the world. The carrots need a serving spoon.
Oh I am for your wonderful Idea "The Progressive Dinner Party”how many course’s .That was one favorite way of entertaining in the 70’s and wow did we find the topics to dicuss.. I’ve heard it on the grape vine ! thank you .Brilliant !
Haven't read the book, and I know this is just a review of it so there's no point in challenging the reviewer's interpretation, but I would make one point: even establishment lefties like Chomsky and Goodman have treated the Tea Party as a sincere demonstration of outrage, completely ignoring the silence of these whining white conservatives for the previous 8 years of the Bush regime. Chomsky even argued that the left should ally itself with the teabaggers since they "shared common ground." I don't necessarily blame Chomsky since I believe he probably suffers from a certain bit of isolation from the attitudes and opinions of the typical Republican, but it's ridiculous to suggest that a Grover Norquist and a Michael Parenti are natural allies against the "establishment," or that these attitudes are all the creation of wealthy puppeteers behind the scenes.
I have personal experience with the Tea Party - you see I was here at the first in Denver and I can assure you - the Tea Party movement is real, and it happened long before we got any professional help! You had to be there to appreciate the incredible enthusiasm and determination to get this country back on track. Check out http://www.lloydmarcus.com/ to see just how genuine the Tea Party is!
Remember, us tea partiers managed to produce the biggest election in over a century - 6 Senate seats, 65 House seats and most incredibly - 695 State House seats. How could that possibly happen? Only with a real, enormous grass-roots movement. There is no other way that an election that swept from Senate to dog catcher can happen.
The Tea Party is the result of lots of people reading the classics of liberty - Atlas Shrugged, The Road to Serfdom and others are always among Amazon.com best sellers. This amazing movement means that we are not going to travel any further down the road to collectivism, and I may get to retire my sig:
Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, NOT a newspaper!
"... 6 Senate seats, 65 House seats and most incredibly - 695 State House seats. How could that possibly happen?"
The 2010 mid-term elections were engineered by our one-party state to continue the appearance of two opposing political parties.
Just after the 2008 election, Obama disbanded his numerous and enthusiastic volunteers, kept Bush appointees in charge of Treasury, the Fed & DoD (the money printers and the money spender) and then continued Bush policy. The Democratic wing of the party, with control of the House, White House and 59 seats in the senate had to come up with an excuse for not implementing any "change." You never heard, "The president needs 60 votes in the senate to get any legislation made into law" until the Dems took control. When Bush had a 50/50 senate in 2001, we were told by the media, the Republicans and the Democrats that the president could get his agenda into law because the vice-president casts the tie breaker in the senate.
In 2009, Obama and the Dems did everything they could to bring the house & senate back closer to an even divide after the 2010 mid-terms. Disbanding the Obama volunteers and alienating the Dems base is the reason Republicans did well in 2010.
Well, I guess I should be glad that you're as cynical as Dave Sirota (AM 760 morning host) , who on "The Battle of the Talk Show Hosts" here in Denver urged his listeners not to vote, since it just legitimizes the one-party system. Or David Michael Green, or many others on the left.
It makes us Tea Partiers job much easier! 2012 will probably be almost as big as 2010. Already, Jonah Golberg notes http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/286697/establishment-moves-rightward-jonah-goldberg?pg=2 :
"What’s harder to understand is how nobody has noticed that the conservative establishment, which includes many of my friends denouncing it, has become vastly more conservative over the last two decades."
I suspect that the nightmare of collectivism reached its zenith in 2009 and we'll see this country solidly back on the path toward small limited government from now on.
As long as fox news and the Koch brothers keep throwing millions at the tea party I suppose they will be around to protect them with more tax cuts for the top, fuck the working class and poor.
mcs,
Americans only have four choices in each election:
1. Vote Democratic, and get conservative policy;
2. Vote third-party, & decrease Democratic votes which helps elect Republicans;
3. Don't vote, which decreases voter turnout and helps elect Republicans;
4. Vote Republican and get conservative policy.
There is no political choice in America - that is what #Occupy is all about.
Just what period in American history are you trying to conserve? The only time conservatives have had their way, the 1920's and the last decade, have ended in financial ruin. Conservative policy might work in theory, but in the real world it has always ended in disaster.
The only period in American history that might be a conservative success would be the Clinton years - resulting in a smaller government & a balanced budget.
Obama has served the elite well and he will be given an unappealing opponent and, regretfully, re-elected in 2012.
You're correct about third parties not being a viable option. So, we Tea Partiers are busy taking the Republican party back to its roots of small government and limited interference in the free market.
I'd say the two longest peacetime economic expansions, separated by a short shallow downturn are a pretty good hint at what economic policies actually work. They occurred as long as we followed Reagans policies - 1983-90 & 1991-99. ( http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record )
I'd say that the Heritage foundation's Index of Economic Freedom ( http://www.heritage.org/index/ ) is another demonstration that freedom works in the real world.
All of the current Republican front-runners know more about economics than the current president. Any of them would put policies in place to start to shrink government back to its proper, historic size ( http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1792_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&log=linear&fy=fy12&chart=F0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=US%20Government%20Spending%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s )
You simply have your own set of facts and I feel terrible for you. Wow.
How so? I'm quoting well-known and respected web sites. Elaborate please.
As with all tea baggers, your biggest problem is that you accept no responsibility in the social contract, while, by the way, demanding it of those you perceive as freeloaders. It's the "I had to work for mine, damned if I'll pay for health care for someone else" syndrome (or welfare, or you name it).
You folks just don't get that while you fretted over welfare (always less than 1% of the budget), you allowed the thieving class to steal the whole country, and to this day you remain (by choice) ignorant of this fact.
You talk about economic models at a time when everyone, including you poor, misguided, propagandized fools should be talking about right and wrong.
You want safety from terror. You don't even understand that all terror in the world starts and ends with the CIA. So that the MICsters and Banksters can transfer more wealth unto themselves. Lockheed Martin built 20 plus billion dollars worth of airplanes that don't work and reward them with a new contract? Where's the tea party on something like this.
The commenter above is correct to feel bad for you.
and not to mention that fake Ground Zero mosque, funding for which came from MIC sources, perfect to scare the electorate rightwards.
While I agree with you that the Tea Party started out as a true grass roots movement, it was quickly highjacked and is now just doing the bidding of the rich, and has little concern for the average person. The examples of this are:
122 Tea Party members voted for the Reauthorization of the Patriot act.
The Tea Party caused the US to have its credit downgraded for the first time in history. (This even may be looked back on as the beginning of the end of the Dollar being the reserve currency of the world. If so the ramifications will shake this country to the bone.)
Judson Philips, the founder of Tea Party Nation, said its pretty disturbing the way the
Freshmen Tea Party members have ALREADY started their own pork spending.
Only 12 members of the Tea Party Caucus voted against the HR 1540 Indefinite Detention without charge in America bill, while 46 voted to allow the military to hold American Citizens indefinitely without a trial. And may I remind everyone here, that goes completely against the constitution that these total hypocrites say they hold dear.
The Tea Party has voted several times AGAINST tax cuts for average people, while demanding that taxes NOT go up on the rich.
I could go on, but I have better things to do than to just post examples that are easily available through Google, what the Tea Baggers really are.
How you judge a person, or a movement is NOT by what they SAY, but by what they DO. And the Tea Baggers stand for NOTHING except destroying societal safety nets and to be sure the redistribution of wealth upwards continues.
I hold most members of Congress in disdain, but the Tea Baggers I hold in TOTAL disdain. They are hypocrites on steroids.
Now I would like to take a moment out of my busy day to say, "Fuck You", to the lousy, scumbag, low life, 99%er hating, Koch sucker, Tea Bagging hypocrites.
Thank you for this comment, NC-Tom. I was going to ask McSandberg how many of the 122 Tea Party members elected to office are actually staying true to their right-wing libertarianism, and strict constitutional stance. The brief amount of evidence you provided definitely shows that the teaparty is not what it started out as.
mcsandberg, you are so right. I had the same experience in North Florida with the Tea Party. The young, the old, families, and many students. people of all colors participated, and we were able to get a Tea Party supporter elected to the House.
It was fun and empowering, and I don't think it is over.
Are you bragging about who was elected in Florida? Like your governor Rick scot who's company was found guilty of the biggest Medicare fraud in history and you are bragging about electing Floridas republicans? typical teabagger!
Aah...I remember Atlas Shrugged and the so-called objectivist philosophy. I read all of Rand's books when I was young, before I went to university and was delighted to find that all the answers in the world are so black and white. Then I studied political science and philosophy, and sociology, and anthropology, etc. and realized that the world is just a little more complicated than Ayn Rand's narrow vision. Actually, I realized that her vision was downright stupid and unenlightened.
She wrote that there is no such thing as community; no such thing as society - just the individual. As if all our cultural, diverse, ethnic backgrounds and histories are nothing. She was also anti-democratic. To her, collective agreements were nothing but a bunch of non-thinking sheep and the rugged individual was the end-all. She wrote a book called "The Virtue of Selfishness" trying to wrap a noble philosophy around selfishness.
And how could so many "tea party" and right-wing people look to her for advice. She was a rabid atheist. When she got older and very sick (chain smoker) she had to turn to the government for social assistance betraying her fabricated hero John Galt. She was a limelight seeking simplistic charlatan. In her earlier years, she tried to become famous through films. That failed so she took on the role of a political philosopher. Her ideas are simplistic crap.
Hmmm... stupid and unenlightened - she saw that what the collectivists were advocating inevitably leads to what happened in the last century. Over 100 million people killed trying to build the collectivist utopias of Red China and the USSR. I'd say she's exactly the opposite, she warned of that result before it happened.
I'd say her vision of free men, free to achieve to the limit of their ability, is the very definition of enlightenment. That's what the founders envisioned and that's what we Tea Partiers are going to restore - removing all the shackles of collectivism that have been placed on us since the New Deal.
And, as always, the social security silliness... Its a common argument that is actually refuted in the book itself by one of my favorite characters - Ragnar Danneskjold. He is the pirate that only stole stolen cargos - mostly government, some from businesses that asked for government bailouts. Here's the pull quote from an article that deserves reading in its entirety ( http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block172.html):
"Thus, in Rand’s view, it is entirely proper to relieve the (illegitimate) government of its ill-gotten gains (the first part of this dual act). Was the U.S. a legitimate laissez faire government during the years that Ayn Rand accepted payments from Social Security and Medicare? To ask this question is to answer it: of course not. Thus, it would have been entirely proper for Ragnar to raid the Social Security and Medicare offices and make off with their stolen wealth, and, then, to give the proceeds to an innocent, such as Ayn Rand. If so, where is the hypocrisy of Ayn Rand accepting payments directly from these government bureaus? It simply does not exist. Similarly, she and all other libertarians are fully justified in mailing letters with the US post office and thus accepting the implicit subsidy therein, and, also, walking on the socialist sidewalks, driving on the socialist roads, using money issued by our central bank, eating subsidized food, etc. It is improper to give money to the illicit state, not to take from these bureaucrats."
Sooo ... while it would be hypocritical of Rand to seek Medicare/Social Security benefits after a lifetime of railing against the system, it would be perfectly within her ideology to accept that same money if it was first stolen from the "government" and then given to her by some libertarian Robin Hood?
Makes sense.
"..she saw that what the collectivists were advocating inevitably leads to what happened in the last century. Over 100 million people killed trying to build the collectivist utopias of Red China and the USSR."
-- What she saw was "collectivists" calling themselves this to legitimate their authoritarian/totalitarian rule. The USSR wasn't "collectivist"; it was a form of state-capitalism, and so is China. The only "collectivism" that happened was the ruling elite collecting more power and money for themselves, while continually promising the mass of people a future paradise.
She wasn't a prophet or much more intelligent that the average person by any stretch of the matter. Emma Goldman (an original libertarian) called out the Russian experiment as a socialist fraud in 1922. Even before the Russian experiment began a guy by the name of Mikhail Bakunin (another one of those original libertarians) said that what the authoritarian-socialists wanted to do would create "the most vile and terrible lie that century would know."
Ayn Rand was definitely right in seeing something wrong about "collectivism", but in my opinion she improperly labeled and misunderstood the problem. And then incorrectly diagnosed the possible solution as being the "free market."
Her vision of a "free person, free to achieve to the limit of their ability" ends when their fist hits the other person's nose. This is when some form of solidarity and cooperation must enter into the picture; that is, only if you want to call yourself an enlightened person. Otherwise we get a world where a "free market" sociopath shits in somebody's backyard, and claims it was his freedom to make profits by shitting in the others yard because it was his "freedom to achieve the limit of his ability" and not care about anybody but himself and profits. Generally, these "free market" sociopaths happen to be raging authoritarians who believe everybody should listen to and follow them. And some form of a democratic mechanism needs to be implemented to stop this from happening.
Both the USSR and China demonstrated what must be the final end of seeking a more egalitarian society - the use of force to take from those who are more successful and give to those who are less successful. There is no other way to achieve the goal of equality of outcome.
You've committed the logical fallacy of False Equivalence - free markets are not anarchy. You cannot have a free market without a government to make and enforce the rules. The less interference in said markets the better they work, but you cannot have none. When you have the massive interference that we currently do, you inevitably have crony capitalism and rent seeking.
Notice that one of Ayn Rand's villains - Orren Boyle engaged in both of these practices.
In today's extremely complicated world, having a 'small' "government to make and enforce the rules" is ludicrous. mcsandberg, your logic is a work of poor fiction.
Obviously the top Tea Party dog is the one in the White House.
Actually, its more necessary than ever to have a small government as complexity grows, since the problem of calculation gets more and more intractable as it does so. Von Mises showed that collectivism CANNOT work because of this problem http://mises.org/humanaction/chap26sec1.asp .
I said nothing of "collectivism." Your logic of the necessity of "small government as complexity grows" is oxymoronic, to be kind, asinine to be honest. You vote for fascism, I do not.
In a very simple, agrarian society, such as ancient Egypt, large concentrated government can work. The rulers can know enough about the needs of the very few different groups of people and the very few goods and services available to be able to allocate them.
As the complexity grows, with more and more professions, more goods and services, the rulers can understand less and less about them and allocate them more poorly. When you reach the complexity of an industrial society, central planning breaks down completely, as it did in the USSR and China. China allowed enough liberalization and survived, the USSR didn't.
This is a very brief summary of "The Problem of Calculation". All of Human Action is well worth reading, not just chapter 26.
I do not have a clue as to why you are talking about government central planning. I'm talking about rules and regulations. Here's an example. Two companies set up factories in a river city. They both spew out lots of toxins into the river and the air. Cancers and other illnesses around the area increase dramatically. How to prove which company is causing the problem or both? Small government has little or no regulation, little or no study of the myriad chemicals, and little or no people to enforce any regulations. It's simply an unknown disaster, too fucking bad.
Don't argue with the troll dude. They just argued Egyptian government 2000 years ago worked. I really hope his ancestors were slaves - probably the same mine. Screw that Jewish crap though, honestly >.< If I'm born of two 100% Jewish parents and am a Satanist, am I Jewish? The answer is no, or yes if you can't count to 5 without colored blocks. Sorry for derailing :3
I'm talking about The Problem of Calculation. Here's one of the best summaries of it that I'm aware of http://mises.org/daily/2401 :
"But the uniqueness and the crucial importance of Mises's challenge to socialism is that it was totally unrelated to the well-known incentive problem. Mises in effect said: All right, suppose that the socialists have been able to create a mighty army of citizens all eager to do the bidding of their masters, the socialist planners. What exactly would those planners tell this army to do? How would they know what products to order their eager slaves to produce, at what stage of production, how much of the product at each stage, what techniques or raw materials to use in that production and how much of each, and where specifically to locate all this production? How would they know their costs, or what process of production is or is not efficient?
Mises demonstrated that, in any economy more complex than the Crusoe or primitive family level, the socialist planning board would simply not know what to do, or how to answer any of these vital questions. Developing the momentous concept of calculation, Mises pointed out that the planning board could not answer these questions because socialism would lack the indispensable tool that private entrepreneurs use to appraise and calculate: the existence of a market in the means of production, a market that brings about money prices based on genuine profit-seeking exchanges by private owners of these means of production. Since the very essence of socialism is collective ownership of the means of production, the planning board would not be able to plan, or to make any sort of rational economic decisions. Its decisions would necessarily be completely arbitrary and chaotic, and therefore the existence of a socialist planned economy is literally "impossible" (to use a term long ridiculed by Mises's critics)."
The problem of pollution, is easily solved by proper enforcement of property rights. The river they're dumping into, if its not owned by anybody, is just a variation of the Tragedy of the Commons.
If your idea of socialism is "a mighty army of citizens all eager to do the bidding of their masters, the socialist planners", no wonder you don't like it. I don't think you'd find any supporters of a system like that among the readers here.
In fact, under socialism the workers own the workplaces, which implies democracy - if you own something, you decide what to do with it. If you own a workplace, you decide how to run it. If you and other people own it together, you decide collectively how to run it. In no way it has anything to do with central planning. Good examples of this type of workplace in the US are co-ops, where decisions are made democratically, and not by some central planning committee.
I pity people like Mises or Rand, who could conceive of no other incentives for doing things than material rewards.
mcsandberg1:
The problem with the arguments for libertarianism is illustrated by your statement that:
"You've committed the logical fallacy of False Equivalence - free markets are not anarchy. You cannot have a free market without a government to make and enforce the rules. The less interference in said markets the better they work, but you cannot have none. When you have the massive interference that we currently do, you inevitably have crony capitalism and rent seeking."
Libertarians have a real line-drawing problem to deal with. They attack all government regulations except those regulations that are "necessary," but that is a difficult question in itself. When you push them, you see that libertarians tend to want "selective" regulation that propels the capitalist machine forward, while harming workers and labor unions generally.
Not to mention that libertarians totally ignore the problem of "externalities," where environmental and other costs are shunned by corporations (since they are not their problem) and placed on all members of society and future generations.
It seems to me that a true libertarian would oppose ALL government action in the marketplace, and just admit that they want a Road Warrior type of society.
In a truly "libertarian" society we would not be able to rely on the courts to enforce contracts, we would not rely on courts to enforce the "limited liability" of corporations that prevents officers and stockholders from being personally liable for the debts of the corporation, we would not have laws that make it illegal to manufacture poisoned food, corporations would not be "people," etc.
An additional problem with the libertarian society is that concentrated capital will ALWAYS find a way to get what it wants from elected officials. This was the concern that led to the adoption of the NLRA: that workers just could not organize in the face of highly-organized, highly-concentrated capital smashing their every attempt to attain better wages and working conditions because, quite simply, it owned the country lock stock and barrel.
Mcsandberg wrote: "Both the USSR and China demonstrated what must be the final end of seeking a more egalitarian society - the use of force to take from those who are more successful and give to those who are less successful."
-- You just don't want to get it, do you? There are many political scientists and history scholars who now understand the fact that Russia was never a "collectivist" country. In the very very beginnings of the revolution there were workers organizations who were trying to create a socialist workers state. But the intellectuals, the Bolsheviks, ended this very quickly and implemented repressive totalitarian rule. The new power-holders of Russia were telling everybody that "collectivism" is what they were doing to "seek a more egalitarian society". But it quickly became evident to many observers that their ACTIONS did not match their words. (read "The Unknown Revolution" by Voline. Read "My Disillusionment with Russia" by Emma Goldman.) While you might not agree with these people's political stance, their positions and understanding of what was happening offer amazing insights into what was actually happening there. Ayn Rand was from a wealthy Russian family who was doing just fine living under an absolute monarchy. While her perspective still offers some validity; it isn't the end all be all. One because she was young and outside of the revolutionary process, and two because people of privilege generally see things differently than those who are not of privilege.
Again, she was right in diagnosing that something was very wrong with the Bolsheviks. After all, her wealthy family was directly screwed over by them. But after all is said and done... the reality was that Russia was a form of state-captialism. So, again, Ayn Rand misdiagnosed the problem of it being "collectivism." It wasn't the act of "collectivism" that failed because "collectivism" was never implemented; the problem was that it was just another bunch of power hungry lying authoritarian assholes who lied about their intentions and then failed miserably in managing their state-capitalist fraud.
If somebody tells you that they have an ideological plan on how to create a paradise, but in actuality it turns that they never followed the plan and LIED about this to hide their real motives of seeking more power for themselves, it would be absurd to call the plan a failure. You can't call something that has never existed as a failure. It's absurd, and simply a misdiagnosis of the problem. Again, the problem was a bunch of lying authoritarian assholes. Study and understand this problem, and not something that never actually existed.
BTW- I agree with right-wing libertarians in that a centralized top/down gov't is NOT the answer. I think a form of a bottom/up democracy should enter into the work place. I know that is anathema to you, so I won't bother going into it.
mcsandberg wrote: "There is no other way to achieve the goal of equality of outcome."
-- Anybody who wants to achieve equality of outcome is a strange person. And, I agree. The only way to achieve this would be through force. Who wants to live in a society where everybody gets the same thing? That would suck. Equality of opportunity is more my style. "Individual needs and tastes differ, as appetites differ. It is equal opportunity to satisfy them that constitutes true equality." Unfortunately, that will never exist in a capitalist society - ever.
Mcsandberg wrote:"You've committed the logical fallacy of False Equivalence - free markets are not anarchy....You cannot have a free market without a government to make and enforce the rules."
-- Actually I don't think I have because I never suggested that somebody's freedom to pollute (shit in) somebody's backyard equates to "anarchy". And, in actuality, when there was little to no gov't regulation on businesses in 19th century America this type of polluting people's backyard by business happened quite frequently, without the result of "anarchy". Like the commenter above me said, you guys seem to have a problem on where to draw lines in the sand in regards to rules and laws.
And, also... you should STOP using the term FREE market. If a gov't needs to enforce and make the rules (even if it is the most minimal) then a market will never be free. You do a disservice to the English language by using this term so casually.
Could you please place this odd beast, "state-capitalism" on this http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/martin-sandberg/blog/2011/08/new-tool-understanding-political-positions so maybe I can figure out what you're talking about?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
Fair warning, Thom Hartman is a LIBERAL (aka, a progressive). The spectrum shown on Hartmann's blog is very misleading. State capitalism doesn't show up because the chart is not about political economy, it's about ideology WITHIN capitalism - not opposing systems.
The word capitalism isn't even there. Capitalism is assumed to be a given and unchangeable. It's either "regulated" (liberal) or "unregulated" (conservative, libertarian). Capitalism cannot exist w/o heavy intervention by the state: it's just that intervention is called "regulation" when it forces the capitalist to reduce the amount of harm that they do to the population or natural world. It's called "unregulated" when the intervention (or regulation) benefits the capitalist class.
That the chart shows liberalism in the same quadrant as communism and socialism is laughable. Liberals are capitalists as much as conservatives are! They just use different rhetoric to achieve the same ends for their corporate masters.
The revolutionary socialism of Marx sought to overthrow capitalism, the first step in the development of a classless (communist) and egalitarian society. Socialism cannot coexist with capitalism, they are antithetical systems. Socialism (unlike the titular USSR) requires that workers (the vast majority) control the economy democratically. In the countries referred to as "actually existing socialism" (the USSR, China, Cuba etc.) the workers had no say whatsoever in the running of the country - not all that different than do we in "actually existing democracies" like the US.
Keep in mind, the Cold War was as much about propaganda as anything else. US propaganda sought to equate the very real evils of Stalinism with socialism to poison the alternative of socialism in the mind of the American working class. Conversely, Stalin sought to equate his policies with socialism to give them a positive veneer in the minds Soviet citizens. Both were deceptions. As is this chart...
@Tom Larsen - I'm kicking this out a level because this site crunches deeply nested comments to impossibly thin columns.
The chart doesn't explicitly have a individualist - collectivist economic axis because, thus far, the existing axes are sufficient to put any economic system in a unique location on the graph. I believe that your system of democratic collectivism would be placed at the top of the graph between the center line and the communists. I.E. the state is seen as neutral, neither evil or good and at the "All problems can be solved with Reason" end of the "attitude toward social progress" axis.
I can see where some additional work on the graph is needed to make things like this easier to see.
We have another winner. Thanks!
Thanks! Well said. Makes my day.
In the first place, fuck Ayn Rand and her money-worshipping psychopathology. Her closest protege is the supervillain billionaire bankster Alan Greenspan. And I mean close, as Greenspan even actually helped her write that evil piece of "greed-is-good", immoral shit, ATLAS SHRUGGED, back in the 'Fifties. And unethical, badly-written propaganda it remains. But it has the backing of billionaires, who fancy themselves the ATLASES of the world who are destined to lord it over the peon underclasses and petty democratic governments! "Get the country back on track", my ass! Typical FRANK LUNTZ line of bullshit! As if it this country ever left the Rightwing-Capitalist-No-Social-Net track it has been on since Reagan, the first corporate-spokesperson President; the same track that the Tea Party espouses. And the Teabaggers in Congress have now proven themselves to be a bunch of selfish ignorant assholes.
In the second place, this site is supposed to be about BUILDING -PROGRESSIVE- COMMUNITY. The Tea Party is REGRESSIVE and wants to return to the old Reaganite-era lies of rugged-individualism and dog-eat-dog capitalism and getting rid of 'gubmint rools and revenoos'... so why are all these Libertarian Republicans infesting this site? To tear progressive community APART perchance, or perhaps to gloat at the failure of the Left?! Remember, all the so-called 'Tea Party' politicians are really all REPUBLICAN politicians. And they won because MOST people DID NOT EVEN VOTE in 2010, as they are so despondent or cynical with the process, especially on the Left. But FOX NEWS gave marching orders to their lemming-crowd of Republican hate-voters! And so they went forth. That, along with millions of dollars from the Kochs and Roves to buy off the media. The Kochs LUV the Teabag Party. What does THAT tell you? And they play the Teabaggers like a fiddle.
So finally, fuck Libertarianism and fuck The Teabaggers! They are mindless tools of the monied Far Right, bent for the total destruction of the Left, of social government, and of what little socialism and social caring is left in this country. Unless, of course, the socialism is for the RICH, like the $30 Trillion ($30 Thousand Billion) given in 'welfare' to the banksters in the last three years - for they are ATLASES and they are Worthy, and Deserving! The rabble are NOT! No, the Left, Progressives, and liberals cannot support the Rightwing Teabagger Libertarian aganda AT ALL!
Every word you said is fact! Well put, when these people say don't go vote for either republicans or democrats they are in fact saying they want voter suppression so that their tea party can take away more social safety net, that is until they need help. Dick Cheney collects and deposits a Social Secuurity check each month, I'm sure David and Charles Koch do to, they sure need it.
The elite (Republicans & Democrats) created the Tea Party to claim the outrage from the Left that was bound to form when Obama revealed himself to be a conservative after promising "change".
#Occupy would have occurred much earlier without the elite monopolizing outrage.
Every university in America has a political science department and no one can figure out who the Tea Party is.
Considering the 2008 economic crash and the mysterious composition of the Tea Party - one could only conclude academia a failure or complicit.
I have to chuckle at the mental image of teabaggers reading either of those books, regardless of the venal, small-minded authoritarian message they convey.
The intellectual bankruptcy of this phony libertarianism is borne out by their devotion to institutions like corporations, organized religions, and the military, which marginalize and punish free thought and action, and reward only obedience and willful ignorance. It substitutes a hypocritical Puritanism for conscience, and imagines that a pack of starving wolves will act in the best interest of each other as a matter of their own self-interest.
That the Tea Baggers are GOP shills and dupes who's 'leaders' largely allowed themselves to be co-opted by the likes of the Koch brothers and Fox Noise Channel is not exactly news to regular habituates of this site. What is news (sort of) is how corporate media still trots out these useful idiots from time to time even though Occupy Wall Street is the true expression of popular anger towards the 1%. What will be news is their growing irrelevance, as their putative sponsors will ditch them because of the inherent market dynamic with any graying demographic, the law of diminishing return. What progressives should concentrate on is limiting the damage they have and can do before they are chucked into the dustbin of history.
They don't exist, yet they brought us to the brink of bankruptcy and have stalled everything meaningful since 2010. Amazing record for not existing. I hope that Occupy ceases to exist so that they can get as much power in congress as the TeaParty does.
Huh.
The Tea Party caused that?
And here all this time I thought it was "Republicans" and "Democrats" doing the bidding of their sponsors.
Actually, OWS might match the Tea Party's success (6 Senate seats, 65 House seats, 695 State House seats) if it would also play politics. (I stress "might".)
I'm writing this from Madrid, Spain, where the May15 anti-system protest movement, inspired sit-ins on both sides of the Atlantic. M-15 also spurned politics. Although leftwing parties expressed sympathies for its ideals, conservatives universally showed only contempt.
Seven months later, conservatives have swept the Socialists out of power and now control governments at national and regionals level.
What do I make of this? Obviously, the public has punished the Socialists, who were in power when the deep economic crisis struck Spain, among other countries. Also, change is possible in a democracy only at the ballot box. Minority leftist parties, including greens, who would seem closest to M-15 ideals (but with no endorsement from the movement), have gained more seats in the national partliament. However, the conservative party, now has an absolute majority and doesn't have to pay the slightest bit of attention to them.
It's quite frustrating.
So, we have a book review categorized as "headline news," while CD decides to NOT republish an article also published by Counterpunch that introduces the recently declared candidate for the Green Party presidential nomination, Jill Stein???!!??? That article can be reached here, http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/29/a-green-new-deal-2/
The tea party has close parallels to how the NSDAP sprung up in 1920s Germany, a few fringe players who will get media attention, and a loyal coven of second rater GOP party activists that put on costume for the media to play pretend with.