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Turkish PM Greeted by Cheers After Israel Debate Clash
Recep Tayyip Erdogan argued with Israeli president over Gaza offensive, before storming out
Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, arrived home to a tumultuous reception of cheering crowds early today after storming out of a debate in Davos over Israel's recent offensive in Gaza.
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is seen during a session at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on Thursday, Jan. 29, 2009.
(AP Photo/Michel Euler) Hours after clashing with the Israeli president, Shimon Peres, in angry scenes at the normally sedate world economic forum, he was welcomed at Istanbul's Ataturk airport by thousands of supporters waving Turkish and Palestinian flags and chanting "Turkey is proud of you". Sympathisers also left bouquets of flowers at his official residence.
The outpouring of support displayed the domestic political capital Erdogan gained from his performance at the Swiss resort, where he told Peres: "When it comes to killing, you know very well how to kill." He then walked off the stage, declaring that he would never return to Davos, after claiming he had not been allowed to speak by the debate moderator, the Washington Post columnist David Ignatius.
Erdogan also accused Peres of raising his voice and claimed the Israeli statesman had been allowed more speaking time than himself and the panel discussion's two other participants, the UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon, and Amr Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League.
Peres had earlier made an impassioned defence of Israeli actions in Gaza, asking Erdogan: "What would you do if you were to have in Istanbul every night a hundred rockets?" Erdogan responded by saying: "President Peres, you are older than me and your voice is very loud. The reason for you raising your voice is the psychology of guilt ... I know very well how you hit and killed children on the beaches."
The prime minister's wife, Emine - who this month organised a Women For Peace In Palestine lunch for the wives of Islamic dignitaries - also became involved, bursting into tears after telling reporters that "everything Peres said was a lie".
Erdogan's outburst was his most high-profile in a series of outspoken attacks on Israel's Gaza operations. He had previously called the offensive - in which around 1,300 Palestinians died - a "crime against humanity" and demanded Israel's expulsion from the UN.
His stance has shocked Israeli officials - used to considering Turkey as their closest regional ally - but played to the pro-Palestinian sentiments of the overwhelmingly Muslim Turkish public. Mass demonstrations in favour of Hamas have been staged in Istanbul and other cities.
Such sympathies have prompted suggestions that Erdogan's rhetoric has been mainly for domestic political consumption and aimed at wooing voters at forthcoming municipal elections in March. Jewish groups have also voiced fears that the government's fierce anti-Israeli criticism is fuelling antisemitism The row with Peres overshadowed a dispute between the government and the International Montetary Fund that had seen Erdgoan accuse the fund of setting unacceptable conditions, after negotiations were suspended over a proposed loan to help Turkey weather the economic recession.
On arriving at Ataturk airport, he depicted his Davos walk-out in nationalist terms, telling journalists: "This was a matter of the esteem and prestige of my country. I could not have allowed anyone to poison the prestige and in particular the honour of my country."
He also denied his comments were aimed at the Israeli people or Jews in general. A world economic forum spokesman said Peres spoke with Erdogan on the phone after the debate and expressed his respect for Turkey.
However, some observers believe Erdogan has sacrificed Turkish foreign policy, especially Turkey's self-appointed role as a regional mediator.
Before the Gaza hostilities Turkey had been mediating in negotiations between Israel and Syria. There are also fears that the pro-Israel lobby in the US will back moves to recognise the massacres of Armenians by Ottoman forces in the first world war as genocide, a move Turkey vehemently opposes.
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122 Comments so far
Show AllBravo, Recep Tayyip Erdogan!
I only wish he'd thrown one shoe at the vile war criminal Peres, and the other one at Ignatius.
· Yr Obd't Servant
Good man! And shame on the moderator for not giving Prime Minister Erdogan equal time to response to that monster Peres!
I wonder how this will inflame US-Turkish relations, already at an all-time low given the US support for the Kurds.
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in their moccasins - Native American proverb.
Good on the PM. As Turkey and Israel have long been de facto allies in the past decades, this should put a dent in Turkey's own passive role.
Interestingly as well, the last few years have seen rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia that would have been unheard of in the past when Turkey was ruled by the secular military elite, although they still have miles to go.
If you want to be a participant in a fair and balanced discussion on anything "Israel", you don't join one that is being moderated by the Washington Post.
Finally, someone with cojones willing to take a swipe at the neighbourhood bully.
Israel should be thrown out of the UN. No doubt about it. It is a rogue nation not worthy to participate in the community of nations on this planet.
-----------------------------------------
Remember the butchery in Gaza by the IDF.
Throw out the United States too. They don't pay their dues anyway, do they?
And move the U.N. headquarters to Europe.
They say it is "inhuman" what people do to people all over the world, but I beg to differ, It is because we are human that we do what we do so please stop using inhumanity as a mantle to hide from ourselves that cruelty is as much part of our humanity as compassion is. We must strive everyday to be better than we really are. That's the purpose of life. Stop giving non-humans a bad name.
ryarzagaray ----- I appreciate your defense of animals and in many ways humans do not rise to the ethics that animals display. But please accept that people really are not referencing animals when they write inhumane rather an unacceptable way for any being to act. Peace ---------- Thanks -----------
Note the attempts to link the Turkish PMS words to "Playing Politics" for domestic consumption and Anti_semitism.
On the one hand this is commendable--on the other hand, TURKEY is one of the worst places regarding journalistic freedom, arresting demonstrators and torture. I thought everyone knew this already.
The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my freind. Although, i don't like the term enemy, quite frankly. So i will put it this way-just because someone is against actions that i am against, doesn't mean they are in accord with my own values. One issue does not a comrade make.
The pope was against the war in iraq, but i sure don't consider the catholic church to be a purveyor of high values and compassion.
Deepa
Whenever someone stands up and speaks against Israel and its genocidal violence in Palestine, writers like Robert Tait tries to interpret such a stand as for selfish purposes. This shows how the pro-zionist lobby controls the "free speech" in the US and Europe.
It is a joke that David Ignasius, Washington Post columnist, was the moderator of this debate. Washington Post has been a strong supporter of the Zionist genocidal violence in Palestine. The entire "debate" is a kind of trying to justify the killings of Palestinian children, women and men by the Zionists. It is not surprising that Ban Ki-Moon, the Secretary General of the UNITED NATIONS OF AMERICA, also participated in the debate. What that the US, Europe (both supported the killings in Palestine), Israel and Ban Ki-Moon trying to show and tell the world? Are they in a delusion that the world does not know anything what Israel has been doing to Palestinians for decades with the active support of US, Europe and UN?
The end to the Isareli burtatality, racism and inhumanity will have to come from outside of Europe or the USA.
Someone speaks the truth and he has ulterior motives? And this from "The Gaurdian". The zionists must have the best public relations machine in history.
"Such sympathies have prompted suggestions that Erdogan's rhetoric has been mainly for domestic political consumption and aimed at wooing voters at forthcoming municipal elections in March."
How bizarre. I would think this position makes sense. Rather, why not suggest that their previous support of Israel was blatant pandering to the US (out of fear of retaliation, no doubt)despite the true interests of their people.
I think we will continue to see foreign leaders pulling away from the US now that they aren't afraid of being assassinated, financially destroyed or bombed if they dare to stand up to our crazy government's mindless support of Israel. I think we should see that as a sign of trust in Obama more than a snub to the US.
Peres says Israel kills for 'democracy' but I think he really means "Homocidal Hegemony!"
It's way past time for all good nations to purge not only these genocidal Zionests
from their ranks but also all supporters of these baby butchers and assassins.
These creatures are a clear and present threat to all humanity.
From the article:
"Such sympathies have prompted suggestions that Erdogan's rhetoric has been mainly for domestic political consumption and aimed at wooing voters at forthcoming municipal elections in March."
The same could be said about the hateful performance, before the National Press Club recently, of Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni, who in running for election is trying to outflank Netanyahu from the far right.
As others have pointed out, no country has a foreign policy---they all have domestic policies that they project onto the world according to their power.
This is a really funny account of what happened. Every one of the participants got their time to speak according to rules that were set beforehand. The last address, by Mr. Peres, was greeted by wide applause in the audience, which none of the other speakers received. Mr. Erdogan then insisted to speak again, and after some discussion with the moderator promised that he will talk for "just one minute". He then went on talking for several minutes, during which the moderator politely requested several times that he will conclude since the time was over. The moderator then became more firm in his request, to which Mr. Erdogan responded by leaving the stage, vowing never to return to Davos. A very embarassing performance for the turkish prime minister.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4zRbPy2kY
arnorot --- I do not know nor do I care if Erdogan followed the rules of debate. Civility is no substitute for humanity. Civility does not absolve you of crimes. Many truthful heroes are known for their lack of civility; in fact when battling superpowers civility is often a disabling luxury. I also suspect you are a professional zionist propagandist.
you are right about that. anyone linking to Daniel Pipes is probably getting paid by AIPAC or Mossad, or any of the various Israeli groups that spy on the US and try to subvert our democracy to keep their apartheid regime properly propped up.
Thanks for the link
The Showdown in Davos... I believe this is where the Central Bank to all central banks is located.
Since the purpose of Davos meeting is to try to put the pieces of the failed financial system together (War Economy of Debt)
Check this out http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/8661
Facts
The massacre of Armenians by Ottoman forces was a genocide.
The massacre of millions of Jews by the Nazis was a genocide.
The massacre of thousands of Palestinians by the Israelis is a genocide.
That twenty million might well be an underestimate. Only the Hitler, Stalin, and Mao&company compare to USA in Southeast Asia (Veitnam)
Chill alfredog I was bolstering your arguement not criticizing.
That was Manifest Destiny.
vdb-Excellent!
Yeah right. What about 1200 Jews killed by palestinians from 2000-2008?
From the Hamas charter:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
What about the 13 hundred Gazans killed in Gaza this month?
Is there Hatred of the Jews by Arabs and world wide... of course and that is what Israel is fostering more and more.
If you want to count bodies in this World's longest war by Zionists who are not even real Semites but Europeans by heritage, the balance or terror is at least 100 to one in the favor of the Land stealing and Ethnic Cleansing Israel.
Shalom
> the balance or terror is at least 100 to one in the favor of the
> Land stealing and Ethnic Cleansing Israel.
No, it's not. Here's an interesting article putting casualties in the Arab-Israeli conflict in perspective.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4990
From 1950 to now there were about 51,000 casualties in the Arab-Israeli conflict (including all hostilities involving Israel and Arab countries as well as palestinians). 35,000 Arab, 16,000 Israeli.
You seem to be very ignorant about the zionist movement, and about the Jewish population of Israel. About %40 came from the Muslim countries.
are you seriously presenting Daniel Pipes as a rational party when it comes to Israel-Palestine? If so, then you really have no idea what you are talking about. He's about a right-wing, Zionist, arab-hating reactionary as they come, so I guess he's trustworthy on this subject, huh? NO.
What's important here is the numbers, not Daniel Pipes's views. Jim Glover here claimed that in the Arab-Israeli conflict the ratio of Arabs to Israelis killed is 1:100. That number has nothing to do with reality.
It is also very illuminating to compare the number of Arabs killed in the Arab-Israeli conflict to the number of Arabs killed in Arab-Arab conflicts.
I am not talking about an "intresting Article"... I am talking about the facts of the conflict now.
If your article's facts are close to accurate, it just shows that the body counts are getting worse with the Terror growing by Israel.
i am not an expert but I am also not ignorant of the terroists of the Zionist movement who and who thought the Holocaust was Good for Israel and 9/11 was too.
and of the Jews who came from the Muslim countries, how many are in control of the government? Any discrimination there?
Are those 40 percent equally represented in the Government? I doubt it.
For lots of other interesting articles, Google "Zionists offered to help Hitler".
More ignorance and blind hatred.
> and of the Jews who came from the Muslim countries, how many are in control of the government? Any discrimination there?
> Are those 40 percent equally represented in the Government? I doubt it.
Of the 31 ministers in the Israeli government, 13 are from Sephardic origin. Check your facts and check your sources.
More ignorance and blind hatred coming from you that is.
24 Israeli citizens have been killed by (tens of thousands!) Hamas rocket attacks over the past decade.
More Israelis die from in-grown toe nails.
[The Palestinians] would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls. - Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, New York Times, April 1, 1988
For every quote you pull from Hamas threatening killing zionists, there are 10 quotes uttered by the Israelis.
Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in their moccasins - Native American proverb.
> 24 Israeli citizens have been killed by (tens of thousands!) Hamas rocket attacks over
> the past decade.
To be precise, about 8000 rockets and mortars were launched from Gaza, targeting civilians in southern Israel in the past eight years. A million Israelis sitting in shelters. And with the smuggling of weapons into Gaza, courtesy of Iran, the rocket range would have soon reached more densely populated areas in Israel, causing more destruction and death.
Hamas killed hundreds of Israeli civilians in suicide attacks during the second intifada and earlier, during the Oslo process, and wounded thousands. It's not that they don't wish to kill more.
> [The Palestinians] would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the
> boulders and walls. - Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, New York Times,
> April 1, 1988
Only problem is, Shamir never made that statement. Here's the New york times link from 1988, quoting Reuters.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE1DD1F3DF932A35757C0A96E948260
His grasshopper statement, according to the article, was about rioters, not about "the palestinians" as you quote it. The precise quote is: ''We say to them from the heights of this mountain and from the perspective of thousands of years of history that they are like grasshoppers compared to us.''
He then said, according to the article,
''Anybody who wants to damage this fortress and other fortresses we are establishing will have his head smashed against the boulders and walls.'' This is in reference to the fortress from which he made the speech.
Conveniently altered by you, in the typical style of most palestinian propaganda. Hardly a match for the murderous racist violence of Hamas.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1bf_1206527402
And there is no need to go back to 1988 in order to find numerous other examples.
arerotten------ You are a professional propagandist. Right in your quote it says Anybody and other fortresses. We may be stupid USA citizens but were not deluded zionists.
I hope my lack of civility did not insult your devious inhumanity.
Your lack of civility didn't insult me, but it certainly says a lot about you.
From the late Israeli P.M. Golda Meir: "There's no such thing as a Palestinian".
More recently and to the point Hamas has said it will abide by ANY peace agreement that Fatah negotiates and the Palestinian people accept by referendum. It will declare a 50 year truce.
I find it particularly telling of the Israeli soul that when valid criticisms are raised of it's conduct, it hauls out the canard of anti-semitism, entirely blind to their own anti-semitic treatment of the Arabs.
Peace now!
Isn't that guy Ignatius a neo-con Zionist shill? What the hell was he doing over in Switzerland "moderating"? The entire crowd of delegates should have walked out, but good for Mr. Erdogan. The whole world is getting sick of US/Israel hypocrisy.
tell it like t is bro
cheers, b
Interesting to note an article was called, "Fueling the Cycle of Hate" a couple days ago on CD (among other places). I think the implications of the title needs to be taken seriously and considered as a universal truth.
So many posts, regardless of the 'side' someone is on, seem not to reflect an understanding of that concept. And this is exactly why history repeats itself, or rhymes, which ever way you wish to see it.
I haven't seen much in the way of peacemaking potential by way of disrespectful discourse and hatespeech from all directions here lately. It seems to me it is time to take an honest look in the collective mirror. Because i don't see much hope for 'change we can believe in' coming from obama (i never did) or from many of the comments i've been reading.
It seems the rhetoric in many cases reflects the very attitudes that people are railing against.
Namaste
Readytotransform -------- Totally correct about peacemaking and civility. Yet there is a time to ignore civility and verbally bare knuckle. The colonial British in Asia is an analogy in regards to the civility that the zionist apologists think is proper. When you time your massacres so as not to disturb your tea or cricket match and file grammatically correct dispatches describing your slaughter; then I will rightfully upset your teacup, steal your wicket and burn your dispatches.
When ones goal is, no matter what, to defend what viscerally repels all empathetic humans, the maintenace of civility is irrelevant.
Valueing Civility above Humanity is Insanity
glenn, i should say the human respect, rather than civility (i dont' believe i see that i used that term), would have been a better way to put it. And if we don't have that much, it is game over on planet earth. I think that was Jesus message.
Civility sounds too british and mannerly. Respect is something else again. I think that what i have been seeing on these posts is more concerned with hatred and disrespect than in finding solutions that are viable. So much petty personal nonsense. Bashing each other- it becomes quite narcissistc and self centered. A pissing contest, really.
It is time for the primitives to evolve, in my opinion. I see a lack of humanity in many of these posts, both interpersonally and in pure insulting of people's opinions. As a humanistic psychologist, it is soemthing i try to teach people. You don't have to punch someone in the face to be abusive.
peace.
"Peres had earlier made an impassioned defence of Israeli actions in Gaza, asking Erdogan: "What would you do if you were to have in Istanbul every night a hundred rockets?"
Of all the problems in the world the technical ones are sometimes the easiest to solve.
What would I do? It's a narrow border and I would install a series of radar guided gatling guns similar to those found on ships to shred incoming missiles. They have been around since the early seventies.
If Egypt has the Phalanx system then Israel could certainly get it. See below for an existing truck based system that Israel is yet again considering- Heading 4 :
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Phalanx_CIWS
Israel is always about to get or develop one of these systems but somehow they never seem to get it up and running -it's always coming in a few years -this has gone on for years and years. As above, there are land based systems in operation, mounted on tanks and all over the place. There were radar directed guns in WWII over 60 years ago, for goodness sake.
The reason they are not in place is Israel's desire to keep conflict going for which it needs to be seen as the poor victim. Thus the need to keep a steady flow of pre-WWII technology, militarily insignificant, homemade rockets incoming. The fear they create is necessary; the better to manipulate opinion domestically and worldwide.
Does Israel think that everyone else just fell off the back of a turnip truck?
Yes, actually they do.