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TechnoratiThere was little for the unindicted co-conspirators of the Bush administration to give thanks for this week as the clock winds down on the 14 months they have left in power.
With former White House press secretary Scott McClellan spilling the beans on who told him to lie to the American people and cover up the White House's responsibility for the criminal act of revealing the identity of a covert CIA officer, it clearly was time for some folks to begin drafting their requests for presidential pardons.
McClellan, in a forthcoming book that will tell some, if not all, reveals that his 2003 statements absolving top White House aides Karl Rove and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby of any involvement in leaking the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame were untrue - and that the orders to make those statements came from President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, White House chief of staff Andrew Card, Rove and Libby.
McClellan's revelation makes it abundantly clear that a subsequent statement by Bush that White House aides had no involvement in outing Ms. Plame, and that anyone who did would be fired was also, shall we say, inoperative.
It also confirms long-held suspicions that the whole despicable affair - an attempt to punish former Ambassador Joseph Wilson for debunking a bit of the bogus intelligence the administration wheeled out to justify invading Iraq - was orchestrated in the offices of Bush and Cheney, and with their knowledge.
It also might shed new light on why Bush quickly commuted Cheney's hatchet man Libby's prison sentence after he was convicted on four counts of lying to federal investigators. It simply wouldn't do to have Libby rolling over on his bosses.
Somehow, I have a strong feeling that this isn't the only or the last revelation of wrong-doing and criminality that we're likely to hear before and after Bush and Co. leave office, or that additional presidential acts of clemency will be needed to spare other top administration officials from prison and buy their silence.
What we've witnessed and endured during seven long years of the Bush presidency is the inevitable consequence of bringing vicious and unprincipled but successful political campaigners - attack dogs - into top White House jobs.
The idea that a political campaign should address any and all criticism by going for the throats of those who dare to question it may work on election day but it doesn't work, or shouldn't, when the full weight and power of the federal government is put behind it.
We are a better people and this is a better country than that, and this is why, when it's weighed and judged, the Bush presidency will be found to have perverted not only our system but also the very principles on which our nation was founded.
We don't rush into a war that has cost so many lives and so much national treasure, and has so damaged our standing in the world, based on a tissue of lies. But under the leadership of George W. Bush, that's what we did in Iraq.
We don't stand idly by, backs turned and eyes closed, while in wartime our friends and political contributors loot the national treasury of billions of taxpayer dollars. But the Bush administration and a Republican-controlled Congress did just that.
We don't send our soldiers and Marines into combat without enough of everything they need to fight, survive and win. But that's what this administration and its political operatives in charge of the Pentagon did.
We don't turn the office of the attorney general and key parts of the Justice Department into a branch of a partisan political campaign - gutting offices charged with protecting the civil rights of minorities and directing the prosecution of those of a different political party - but this administration did.
We don't declare war and then expect that the entire sacrifice will be borne by the half a percent of our population who wear uniforms. We don't fight a long and costly war by cutting taxes on the wealthiest Americans and borrowing trillions of dollars to finance it from foreign competitors such as China. But this administration did.
We don't prosecute a war to spread democracy by curtailing democracy and suspending the Bill of Rights at home. We cannot promote our principles abroad by denying the same principles - the right to a lawyer, the right to a fair trial, the right to be secure in our homes - to ourselves. But this administration did.
We don't beat or torture confessions out of prisoners in violation of our laws and the laws of the civilized world. We don't lock people up and hold them incommunicado for years without charges or trials. But this administration did and does.
We don't applaud and cheer an administration and a Congress that make the rich vastly richer, the middle class less secure and the poor even poorer. But this administration has done just that, in violation of our principles and the principles of love, peace and charity that are engrained in the Christianity that these rogues and charlatans embrace so publicly but violate every day.
It will be a good day when they are gone, and good riddance to them all.
Joseph L. Galloway, a military columnist for McClatchy Newspapers, is the co-author, with Lt. Gen. Hal Moore, of "We Were Soldiers Once … and Young," a story of the first large-scale ground battle of the Vietnam War.
© 2007 McClatchy Newspapers
64 Comments so far
Show AllSharona1948: "GEORGE BUSH IS A LIAR."
This statement, at the very least, assumes that it is not okay for leaders to lie to the people in a democracy. Unfortunately, this does not hold true for some Bush supporters. Some, such as a former colleague, think it is perfectly all right for Bush to lie, as Bush being a "stand-up guy" has a good reason to do so. Such thinking is a consequence of characterizing goodness as a property of a moral agent, instead of qualifying an action performed by an agent.
People with an agent-focused view of morality enable characters such as Bush. Unless such thinking changes within the populace, expect more Bush-like leaders.
SHARONA1948 — Everyone's VOTE does count, and you have been heard.
I am confused in all of this, and although see somethings so
clearly, my life is not holding very well together. We need to connect
and align with all the people about what is happening.
PEACE to you my sister whose authentic outrage is but a mere grain
of sand to the mountain's load that is owed to arrive. Please do LIGHT
candles, and expel the gathering darkness, and do not go softly into
the night, but do RAGE AGAINST THE DYING OF THE LIGHT
WE THE PEOPLE united and empowered are far stronger than the arrayed "mighty", as was Golith to David, and as you so prophetically remind us:
"Quote from jockey Red Pollard in the movie,
"Seabiscuit": "You know, everybody thinks we found this broken-down
horse and fixed him, but we didn't. He fixed us. Every one of us. And I
guess in a way, we kinda fixed each other, too."
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
GEORGE BUSH IS A LIAR.
There, I've said it. Publicly, where people can read it and report me to whomever they feel should know about it.
I've been saying it ever since the first time he got elected. I knew 9/11 was a lie, I knew the war in Iraq was a lie, I know that the Bush League lies to us on a daily basis. I've been waiting YEARS for people to collectively recognize and say right out loud that the current administration is full of liars, cheats, thieves and murderers.
And all I am is an American citizen. I have no ties to any political party, any religion, or any social group. I'm a registered voter who votes and I pay my taxes. I am a nothing and a nobody. But I've been saying right out loud, all along, that we're being lied to. I've learned from the lessons of history. I've paid attention to what's going on, as unappetizing as a lot of it is. I do not accept guilt for "tacit approval" of what's been going on. I did not tacitly approve any of what the Bush League has been up to.
I KNOW I am not the only one. There are a LOT of us out here who know the emperor is nekkid. We are the unheard. You know, WE THE PEOPLE.
Not the sheep who want to be told what to think and do, not the constituency of the stupid that the Bush League depends on. Not the fearful MSM, which sells us, daily, on how powerful and hopeless to fight against the "power elite" are. Not the suckers who are manipulated into "consumerism" and life-long indebtedness.
We're out here.
Think Seabiscuit and War Admiral.
Live beyond your fear.
I have to re-post this, as it doth qualify as one of those most transparent LIES, ever:
Good responses, but they (re-thuglicans & democraps) wore off my usual skeptical button decades ago.
It's kind of a moot point though, and we agree that we disagree herein, on who "pulled" the three BIG buildings down.
Hopefully it (our similar, but different viewpoint) empowers us both, to take appropriate actions, like continuing to read CD, and inspire others to ACT (which I see as a given). Best of wishes with your approach, as I know my Dad would have almost dis-owned me to hear what comes out of my mouth now days . . . and he was a pacifist prior to WWII (and his switch over to building the nukes for Japan).
BTW, as I'm (almost) certain you would agree, the bald-faced lie to the American people that the gov't had never heard of any such idea of flying planes into buildings - was just propaganda to attempt to recover from their seriously flawed "intelligence failure" 'barf all over their shirts' mess, right?
Have you heard the one about the 3(death)star General, who asserted under oath (to that Georgian Rep, who they then systematically ousted) that our gov't's state-of-the-art (best in the solar system) intercept effectiveness was actually significantly made more effective, dangerous, responsive, and with keen perceptual clarity in the face of any threat === while running three different war games at the same time as while 911 was occuring ???? How [unbelievably ignorant]^google power are WE ????
The facts, Sir, are clear that nothing even close to letting 4 airplanes loose in out skys has ever occurred before. Have you forgotten the multi-trillion dollar -- intensely accurate and thoroughly deadly -- defense system that protected us from the USSR "menace" for decades?
I guess it was those all of those made-in-China fusses, ALL blowing at the same time in massively redundant systems over dozens of states, AND no body could find the light switch, and the shrub wasn't available to guide the military as he was in elementary school learning how to read and write? Ever read about CENCOM, and the Pentagon's joint chief of staff, I guess all of those folks were on vacation during those exercises, and left the unqualified most least likely able teen agers in charge of our entire countries defense?
OOOPPPPS, sorry we completely failed to do our jobs, and then no one was fired for incompetence? Well, I aint no military man, but the ONLY way that could ever happen is IF THEY WERE FOLLOWING DIRECT ORDERS.
"Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"
Namaste
__ __ __ __ We must be the change
__ __ __ __ we wish to see in the world __ Gandhi
willybill
Add this to the list of lies_
Short of two years ago, and at a time that herr bushboy was looking straight into the t.v. cameras displaying his well-practiced- truly concerned for us fool's face while promising more and better armor for the troops, he had to have known not only had the production of it at a Tempe
AZ plant been reduced to 50% for several months at the time of his yet another lying statement, it was to be totally discontinued in but a few more months too!!!
KEEP THE FAITH
seditious
I plead guilty to the charge of self satisfaction. I thought it was a cute response or I wouldn't have posted it. You find yourself, at this particular blogspot, in the midst of probably the most politically active people in the country, and because all you see is words you assume that nobody is doing anything except talking. I think you are making a very uninformed assumption, and I take umbrage sir, on behalf of myself and others. I registered dozens of voters in 2003. I have produced and distributed demonstration placquards. I have written and self published a 300 page book. Hundreds of hours. Have I actually taken a baseball bat and gone after the president? Well, no. Guess I'm just too smug and apathetic.
The question I'm seeing in many of these posts is what in fact CAN we do besides write and rant and demonstrate? There is a dearth of viable suggestions. Where, specifically, do you propose we put our energies? Third parties? I'm not sure I share your faith that any existing form of activism is capable of dislodging the power structures in Washington. Make me wrong.
Dichterfreund, Gene Therapy:
Voxclamantis begs to disagree. I did not mean "alpha male" as a compliment to George Bush, but as an anthropological fact of life. I agree that he is a posturing fool. Alpha males in baboon societies are posturing fools, and it works. It keeps the top dog on top. I agree that Bush himself is a psychologically defective, clueless person possessed of few skills, but we all know he is a sham, constructed by alpha males like Cheney and Rove, Baker and Scalia, not to mention the alpha males of corporate America, General Bullmoose et al. My point is that power hungry people in fact do end up with the power, and because power hungry people are not particularly good or intelligent or principled people it is not hard to figure out why there is so little enlightened governance in the world or why the floor of the United Nations so resembles a meeting of proxies to an organized crime summit.
As galling as it is to concede anything like a virtue to slimeballs like Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, you do have to admit that they have demonstrated more motivation and aptitude for seizing and maintaining power over the past seven years (30 odd years if you count from the back room conniving of Rumsfeld-Cheney in the Ford administration) than, say, you or I. If they are such weaklings, why aren't they home with their mommies? Why are they standing on our necks?
If we think that the passing of this particular junta is going to be the end of our problems, we are dreaming. It is a standing wave, an eternal given. Giuliani and his "people" and Clinton and her "people" are waiting in the wings, and it remains to be seen whether the remains of our constitutional system will prevail over the natural law of fang and claw.
I thought I read someone up on this post looking for a fearless leader. I am the fearless and the most fearsome leader, and as such I emphatically state that the American nation is yet not ready to follow. What can a super leader do when there are no followers? I'll check back on you guys after I see millions of soup kitchens.
Words have power only if people are listening or reading. Clearly not enough are listening. So what do you plan to DO besides talk and write. The answer is in the doing. CREATIVE PEOPLE, WHAT CAN WE DO ?
voxclamantis -
I'm sure you've patted yourself on the back ad nauseum for your latest attempt at derision-slash-humor, but pray tell: what have you done recently that has made any difference whatsoever (or that stands a chance to make a difference) to the status quo? More wordy acclaimations and theories in an attempt to aggrandize your own reputation, or have you actually participated in or organized any meaningful movement of the people? What ACTIONS have you taken to shut down or bring to justice the criminals in D.C., or would you rather just sit around and bloviate?
Confederates and collaborators. The Founding Fathers gave us impeachment to deal with an abusive Executive. The Constitutional mandate to Congress is clear. By declaring impeachment "off the table," Pelosi--and her supporters--have declared their true positions as accomplices to the worst pResident this country has ever seen.
I think you have to be better informed about what is happening. There are a few good things happening in Congress and you have to know about them and actively support them. You have to beat these guys at thier own game. If you are not willing to spend and time and effort talking to the people that make the decisions you are wasting your time.
Therapy at last and worth the wait!
Vox clamantis is dead wrong ("Our leaders, anybody's leaders (the "administration"), are alpha males"). Simply look at them ... Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, "Scooter", et al. And in the corporate sector, Welch, Lay, etc. They seek political power with a wad of money behind them because they are weak at a very personal level. Where would they be in an indigenous environment where the abilities of the true "alpha male" are used? It's all compensation, like the big phallic car and Bush's "strut".
Yes Judi, the world court concept is appropriate. I do not like the idea that these people can simply retire to their ranches and life of the idle rich, because that is not justice by any means.
"It will be a good day when they are gone, and good riddance to them all."
They're not leaving. If we're lucky, we may get their pallid imitations in the Democratic Party for a while--but they'll still run the show.
Republicans are bailing because they probably know they too could become entangled in what could be a war trial. The Bush crime family will have to pay their dues, and it will more likely come from the world court. HOwever, Bush and Cheney probably have another trick up their sleeve like starting a war with Iran, and we could be stuck with a lame Adminisration for years to come if impeachment isn't soon on the table. Yet, I believe some Senators will investigate the charges and justice might prevail in the end.
seditious
You are absolutely right. I never realized I was a faux-intellectual sitting here on my backside tapping on this silly keyboard. So I've taken your advice and am getting organized for action. I've started a sleeper cell in Tucson. It's in a really dirty part of town, full of hoi polloi, in a dark alley near the railroad tracks. Right now it's only me and a couple of Mexican guys who say they aren't afraid of the government, but when there are more of us we can rent more space in the warehouse next door. Our plan is to stockpile pitchforks and torches, and when there are eight thousand of us we are going to march to Washington and throw the bastards out. We call ourselves the Brave Citizens' Militia Who Ain't Gonna Take It Any More. We meet on Wednesday evenings. I assume you will want to join us.
so called americans are very afraid of leaving their comfort zones. the only way they will is when they are forced to by exterior events. we want that food supply unbroken, our houses heated.
I'm in a cold place right now. If the heat supply broke down there would be a lot of elderly folks who might not make it through a winter and that would be a problem.
until such time as we are required to get out by events,
Thank you, Beowulf..we all just have to keep pushing back and MUST have hope those "Americans" will join in and get us to critical mass.
Thanks for taking the time to do an outstanding job, willybill.
Ask yourself this:
if these truths are so obvious and so well known throughout the world, then what, I say, WHAT are so called "Americans" who would be proud to deserve that title, waiting for?
Thanks again, in sincerity, for your simplicity and honesty.
Stay sharp. Stay close.
Revolution? I've been saying that for years. But I wonder: when are some of the faux-intellectuals here going to get pissed off...when will you find your backbones and get off your keyboards & asses and begin organizing? Even the likes of Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, and Samuel Adams et al knew that there was a time for writing, discussion, and intellectualizing, then there was a time when only action would affect a change. Of course, the latter would require some measure of actual courage - a different kind of bravery than mere constant harping about how badly our Constitutional rights have been trampled, and calling lamely into the wind for impeachment.
"Working within the system", voting, petitioning, peaceful demonstration....have all proven to be ineffective in the current milieu. The detrimental actions (and non-action) of the past several Congresses have shown us that. You can't work within a corrupt system without becoming corrupt yourself eventually, getting thrust out of that system, or being simply ignored.
You know what people? As "civilized" as you like to think you are, the fact is that sooner or later, you'll have to get down in the dirt with the rest of the hoi polloi if you want to keep what you've got. The monied interests will certainly never stop trying to take it from you and trying to enslave you.
Revolution
Mr. Galloway I hope and pray their arses will be out the door in 14 months but a part of me deep down fears the thought that they may declare Martial law and never leave now that Bush has passed legislation giving him the right to in the event of an emergency! These people are diabolical and capable of anything.
Arvy and geoff---am out of steam except to say to all, but specially to the two of you---good night and godspeed.
GEOFF---I do believe you have, for once,exceeded my word count----I'm supposed to be picking up your habits,buddy, not the other way around! Sweet dreams!
Well expressed, Mr. Galloway. Good writing.
I take issue with one sentence however: "We are a better people and this is a better country than that, and this is why, when it's weighed and judged, the Bush presidency will be found to have perverted not only our system but also the very principles on which our nation was founded."
When we add the 70% who disfavor Bush to the 30% still behind him that's 300 million people tacitly allowing this pissant president to pervert our system. Many nations today don't have the legal machinery to remove a renegade leader. We do but we don't use it. This administration's sins of commission were unleashed as a result of our sins of omission--by never questioning BushCo and never holding it accountable for its actions. We may not be actual co-conspirators but we are complicit with this travesty of a government when we pay our taxes. Face it, we all help keep the Bushit flowing.
Are we a better people, a better country? Definitely not.
starofthesea November 23rd, 2007 6:55 pm -- That said, and back to Arvy, maybe we could draw on a fairy tale (collective myth) for effective handling of seemingly overwhelming forces, since you expressed some doubt as to the wisdom and effectiveness of exposing the hands pulling the strings.
Thanks for your kind words,SotS.
Just to clarify my previous comment, I'm not so much questioning the wisdom of exposure as the likelihood of our actually being able to accomplish much thereby without first depriving them of their bases of power and protection within the system that makes the rules and governs our lives.
and "kill all the lawyers!"
I suspect Bush's last words as president will be "pardon me."
"But the Bush administration and a Republican-controlled Congress did just that."
Who elected these people; and why?
Take your time; the answer and the feelings that follow are the 'revolution' you seek.
here at the ashram, strict discipline and clarity of thoughts is de rigeur. I'm afraid if I violated the rules I'd catch it. We are also encouraged to be truthful especially to ourselves. Which is difficult.
However, on the other hand, having an open mind is smiled upon! So it's another impossible antithesis that needs lifetimes to resolve.
By the way as I lay asleep last night, I bethought myself that maybe Cindy's next article would cover the subject of our addictions.
The difficulty and hardship of escaping the iron fist of that or those which beats us down, and the inherent heart break involved in our detachment from that or those which harms us.
Thus attempting to escape from a cycle of violence. Strange, that. I mean we just had diet and vegetarianism, I'm tryin' to remember what comes next? there is of course much ground to cover.
Anyways. . .aside from the issue of collaboration which I'm still mulling over, I had come to the idea of the relatively unitary executive hovering over the one presented for show because of the nature of the thoughts and posts on this site and the misc directions they seem to be headed, albeit guided along.
What I see is that despite the diversity, there's a natural tendency toward a relatively small group that oversees our collective development.
Not having experienced this phenomenon in quite the same fashion, I'm now fairly convinced, beyond the idea of conspiracy, which I don't think is what it is, that the group that oversees the western masses is fairly small and needs to be exposed. Exposed because if you just think about Nature alone, we are All, rich poor, them us, standing on the brink of choices that are irreversible.
Regardless of how I think that struggle will ultimately play itself out, proved over and over by evolution and history itself if one is incapable of looking beyond the pale, and not to mention of course philosophy, fiction, mythology,and legend. and in whatever period of time, when and of what duration. All that makes no difference.
We should call this site just plain CommonSense. So in CommonSense, I am calling on those very few (cowards) to come out and tell us what gives before it's too late (for them.) And that means whether I can survive or not. If you are one of them, you don't even see what's in the parentheses.
They ought to be concerned beyond just forcing us to fight it out amongst ourselves. Because eventually the people Will catch on. We've experienced blowback now and realize its implications.
Plus, I think the issue is further confused by an encroachment on their territory, because I swear to those individuals, I've been amongst you, I've been to your islands. I'm sure I've spoken to them by chance or what you choose to call it and I'm sure I'm not alone.
phew that's as long as anything you ever wrote, star!
All good posts, but if we are taking a vote, I'm with GEOFF29's take on what we are all grappling with. Yeah, geoff, I've got your back, buddy.
ARVY--you always provide thoughtful, considerate and learned insights----nearly everyone who makes it a habit to post here strikes me as intelligent, articulate, thoughful people, and the level of discussion nearly always is head and shoulders above most sites I've peaked in on.
That said, and back to Arvy, maybe we could draw on a fairy tale (collective myth) for effective handling of seemingly overwhelming forces, since you expressed some doubt as to the wisdom and effectiveness of exposing the hands pulling the strings.
Jack and the Beanstalk----this Jack kid didn't mess around. He confronted the giant, taunted him in HIS lair and lured him to chase him. Then presto---he cut the stalk right out from under him. Now THAT is going straight to the root of the problem. I mean, we couldn't have expected him to pull the stalk out by the roots with that great big heavy giant weighting it down.... Then there's the great myth of David and Goliath----slingshots for all!!!!
GOEFF29---I don't care if you DO smoke----you still have much to offer. (smile)
These "retirements" and "tell all" books, remind me of what resourceful football or basketball coaches do when their team is either beating the brains out of or getting stomped by the opposition. Coaches start pulling out the first string and putting in substitutes. Everybody knows at this point that "the game" (for all practical purposes) is over and they are just waiting for the clock to run out. Fourteen months--how long (and dangerous) a time we have ahead of us.
Personally I think that anyone who served this corrupt adminstration should be forever banned from any form of government service ever again. Germany had "denazification", we need "deneoconization".
@ geoff29,
There's certainly nothing wrong with your 'intuition' and I don't disagree one bit with your suggestion about focus. We definitely need to understand 'the root of the problem' in order to deal with any part of it effectively.
Strategically, however, attacking heavily fortified roots directly is not always the best approach, or even always possible. Especially with an evolved systematically corrupted situation like financially dominated pseudo-democracy, you probably need to break down some of its outer fortifications first. In so saying, I'm not taking about personalities; I mean institutional obstructions that are currently entrenched within the system itself.
As for a "revolutionary" moment, I can only say that I hope you are right about it getting closer. So far as I can see, and as Dom11 suggests, there doesn't appear to be any answer that can accomplish much in accord with the rules that have alredy been imposed by the 'masters of the universe'.
As a Canadian observer, what I find most appalling is how a miscreant like George W. Bush ever garnered enough votes in 2000 that five sophists on the Supreme Court could justify giving him all the marbles.
The sad conclusion is that the heavily biased corporate media gave him that opportunity by waging a two-year hatchet job on Gore while ignoring the dishonesty and profligacy of Bush.
And no matter who gets elected in the future, it won't correct the fact that the same very biased right-wing media is where most of the electorate gets its public information and opinions.
Bush never said he would "fire" anyone involved...he said he would "take care of them"...and he sure took care of Libby
geoff29,
I am feeling that same frustration, and too feel that we are closer to revolution. I think the only way it will happen is to wake up those among the public who are sleeping or being passive. This is not some frustration over a politician who got caught with his hand the cookie jar, but as you suggest, a cancer that has permeated and poisoned the entire political and social ethos. That is why our reaction must be on the level of revolution to really shake up society and bring about real change.
Arvy
I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as you are on this factually I have no doubt. I go by intuition mainly I admit and link that to my life and the way world news is flowing.
I guess what I'm suggesting is that I'd like to have the attention focused on the root of the problem and not on the outer branches. First of all, it's fruitless thinking about Bush, and is going nowhere. Jesus this is lyrical.
Secondly, at least not many of us here are buying the stuff we see on the surface. I know there's a lot of investigative reports on the land barons and robber barons and so forth from the past, but I'd encourage the investigative reporters out there to find the individuals directly at the core of this issue right now, name names and locations and what they say and do.
When I contemplate the issues I think we are at some sort of a "revolutionary" moment, regardless of the apparent calm - even though at least me and my friends have been talking and debating about this for the past 35 years give or take and it hasn't happened yet. It seems a lot closer.
I'm assuming the same is true for many of the reader's at this site.
Being so, going right to the source might at least fright the birds out of the bushes so we can at least begin to think about the true issue and not have to suffer ruses, obfuscations, and slight of hand. It's ticking me off.
No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I weve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hours getting late
Stiv Whitman Might be right unfortunately.
The system is possibly too corrupt to enact meaningful change. In my opinion, US has two choices:
1) Revolution ("torches & pitchforks" kind)
2) Fascism (More likely. Just you look at the recent legal changes in the system)
Just to be clear - I don't think that "voting" or working in any way within the system will bring much. You know that you've lost when "pre-emptive" war, "enhanced interrogation" & "enemy combatant" are accepted legal concepts.
Yes, well, we've never lacked evidence!
The corruption runs deep and it is 'open' & yet the MSM is playing stupid—nothing about this on CNN web site today or yesterday. The MSM trumps all. Move along. Nothing to see here.
What does it matter if a bunch of people are frothing mad on the Internet?
Naomi Wolf's plan for national strikes ... hmmm?
The ruling elite might 'cut their losses' and ditch these guys like Nixon. Everyone gets a pardon under the next regime?
willybill November 23rd, 2007 1:06 pm
"..was that so hard to say?"
-----
Yes, why is it so difficult even for a progressive journalist like Joseph Galloway to call a spade a spade? Bush and his gang are shameless liars. Why don't our journalists have the guts so say so?
geoff29 November 23rd, 2007 3:25 pm -- "That kind of control and the mean quality of the front men, indicates fear in the lurking background."
Perhaps. But I would argue that they were first emboldened by dissolution of the Soviet Union. Without that competing system, they were led to believe they could forego all prior constraints aimed at making theirs appear "user friendly" by comparison. Only now, as unfettered capitalist excesses have exposed more of the realities, are some beginning to question the wisdom of the most blatant greed and the reactions thereto.
However, I doubt that they are yet sufficiently fearful to reinstitute much self-restraint. Apathetic public responses to date simply don't warrant the level of fear that preceeded previous corrections like FRD's "New Deal", for example. To the contrary, the trends in the opposite direction show no obvious sign of abatement any time soon. Hell, we haven't even got to the stage of military interventions and burning of tent cities in Washington yet.
"The founding fathers foresaw EXACTLY the situation that Bush has created. The problem is that our Democratic congress does not have the courage to proceed with impeachment. That malady, apparently, the founding fathers did not foresee."
Read the tail end of the Declaration of Independance, the part about overthrowing tyrany...
Our friends who proceeded us have done the same as we have and now here we are and the problem, be what it may, seems much worse to me.
There's too much control and manipulation from behind the scenes from the looks of it in France, Germany, England, you know this part of the globe.
That kind of control and the mean quality of the front men, indicates fear in the lurking background. They see what's coming to them, I think, and they are doing their worst to save their asses. Including killing innocents elsewhere and creating a horrible kind of diaspora here amongst those who might do anything to prevent them.
anney & peaceman,
Thanks for the kind words. FWIW, I have no background in history (engineer & MBA actually) but was instead drawn to go back into the history of our founding fathers during the Clinton impeachment.
The true brilliance of our founding fathers was not just the system of checks and balances itself, but the underlying reasons for creating them in the first place. The writers of our constitution very clearly foresaw potential crisis to the democracy. Corrupt politicians, poor leaders, short-term thinking based upon popular opinion, power hungry presidents, control of the media, control by powerful/wealthy interests - all were foreseen and taken into account. For example, Federalist # 10 discusses the balance between disagreeing factions (political parties) and what happens when they go too far in opposing each other and how it affects the republic.
I started as a Republican and converted to a Democrat fifteen years ago. The last ten years, and especially since the 2006 election, have gone beyond depressing or angry. They are heartbreaking.
geoff29 November 23rd, 2007 2:50 pm -- I'm still of the mind that the more we chase after the front men, and Bush and Cheney et al are merely front men I believe, the people behind the scenes are happy as can be that they escape notice.
You're right, of course. But the primary obstacle to reform is the pseudo-democratic system they've created for 'legitimizing' their control and manipulation of the populace. And you can't fix that system without first dealing with its perpetuating guardianship on the 'front lines'.
willybill--You're absolutely right on. To put it succinctly, they lied when they opened their mouths.
"...I agree. Let's start with the Bush Administration, and then go after the Congress..."
Right... hmmm ...but how? A revolution seems like the only way. We need a fearless leader. Where is (s)he?
"attack dogs - into top White House jobs."
I'm still of the mind that the more we chase after the front men, and Bush and Cheney et al are merely front men I believe, the people behind the scenes are happy as can be that they escape notice.
When and or if they are gone, they will be replaced by someone else who suits their purposes.
No, I think we have to start examining the whereabouts and motivations of the true culprit cowards slinking around in the background.
My bet for one local is a few of those isolated beautiful little islands off the coast of Maine, keeping Bush the senior on shore due to his inferiority of stature, intellect, and net worth. Surrounded by a dozen of their good/wealthy lawyer and doctor friends for tennis and such.
When asked about their purpose in life they come up with some obscure gobbley de guck that none of us looks too deeply into.
That's just the east coast. There in a lot more places. Let's start concentrating more on those cowards! They want us to rush to Washington so they can beat us down there.
Am I close you miserable wretches. Just talk to us. We just want to hear what you have to say.
citizen1,
I agree. Let's start with the Bush Administration, and then go after the Congress.
Good points. But why blame Bush and his gang alone? The Democratic Party (leadership) is equally to be blamed. How about Madame Pelosy stating that "impeachment is off the table"? Why?
I would say good riddance the entire political class of this country. They are all complicit.
The problem is the fact that we have a unitary executive branch that consistently violates laws, a complicit Congress that is too scared to enforce the law, and a mainstream media that provides cover for these criminals. What angers me is when Bush and his minions are out of office, we are too willing to ignore all the devastation and law-breaking they have done in hopes that the next President will do a better job. I am sorry, but I cannot turn my head and ignore what Bush has done. I know it is difficult, and would require several attorneys, lots of money, and abundant time, but these criminals need to be held accountable for their actions. Since we are limited in resources and options to go about this, I think it is time for the people to dissolve this government. It would send a clear, unmistakable message to the President, Congress, and Supreme Court, and just might wake up those among the populace who are asleep. I usually do not hold grudges, but when our elected public officials so egregiously break the law, I cannot ignore it and give them a pass. Maybe what I am proposing is unrealistic, pie in the sky, but it is on that level where action is needed. Yes, the "Federalist Papers" outline exactly what the Founders told us what not to do, especially #10, 47, 48, and 51. Are we willing to stand up to this government? Are we willing to stand up to Blackwater? Can we collectively put our heads together to come up with a plan to hold this Administration accountable?
In response to choochoojustice's post, we must make sure that the day will come to prosecute these criminals. And it must come sooner rather than later. Let's go after these guys. At the very latest when they leave office, we need to make citizens' arrests. If we allow these guys to get away with breaking the law, then other officials will break the law. Does anyone have any connections with lawyers, judges? What can we do to step up the pressure on these guys?
Our Founding Fathers put impeachment in place as a remedy against the crimes that the Bush administration has foist upon our country and the world. Unfortunately, the Democrats who we thought we elected in 2006 to hold BushCo to account haven't the stomach to do so. These criminals should have been gotten rid of long ago, but we have collectively allowed them to do as they please and laugh all the way to the bank doing so while our infrastructure crumbles, the middle class disappears, people go hungry, jobless, homeless, sick and undereducated and an illegally waged war rages on and on and on with no real end in sight.
I fail to understand why the Democrats have no inclination toward impeachment. They swear to defend and uphold the Constitution and yet they've become Republican enablers, allowing these unchecked criminals to run roughshod over anyone who stands in their way. Had this been a Democratic administration doing these things, you know damn well that Republicans would be calling for heads to roll. They'd've initiated impeachment hearings years ago, so why don't the Democrats step up to the plate and start impeachment hearings? What are they so afraid of, anyway? Don't they know that this is the mandate that we sent them to Washington to accomplish in the first place?
What's it going to take before our legislators quit looking over their shoulders and do the right thing and impeach these bastards? They've all but destroyed our country and the damage will take generations to repair. I probably won't live long enough to see the restoration, but all I can hope is that I do live to see the day that these criminals are impeached, dethroned and thrown behind bars with the key thrown away.
Let them get a little taste of what Gitmo prisoners are exposed to each and every day. Sorry, but I feel no mercy for professional crooks and liars. And that's what they are, after all. Call a spade and spade and tell it like it is. They're first and foremost LIARS. LIARS. LIARS.
There. I said it. As have many others here.
Well said Arvy and Dichterfreund!
I read somewhere on another site--maybe RAW--that McClellan's publisher has done the nearly impossible and RECANTED! I hope to hell it ain't true.
Please go to this link and TAKE ACTION!http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/28905
"Our leaders, anybody's leaders (the "administration"), are alpha males"
None of them are alpha males; they would have the shite beaten out of them if they weren't rich.
"He were no lion were not Romans hinds."
perhaps the day will come long after this administration leaves office that they may have to face trial in an international criminal court much like the leaders of the khmer rouge are now faced with , for crimes against humanity and other charges we are all becoming familiar with , we can only hope that day comes sooner then later.
Our leaders, anybody's leaders (the "administration"), are alpha males. They are our leaders because they are the most motivated, most persuasive, most bullying, most ruthless specimens in the human zoo. Properly constrained, they provide a necessary unification and focus to the collective agenda. Unconstrained, they follow their nature (per Tony Soprano) into the pathologies of despotism. That kings and generals thrive on power is no less natural than plants thriving on sunlight. Whether you like it or not, you'll find one of these guys in the captain's chair of every society on earth. The experiment of constitutional democracy is to have our cake and eat it: to acquire the benefits of a strong leader while, by means of checks and balances and the rule of law, preventing him from turning into Caligula.
Mr. Galloway lists the crimes of the past seven years, and places the responsibility for them on the current administration. They did it, he says. But they did it with our tacit approval. We (the American body politic) did not stand up with sufficient alarm to invoke the law against them, and so, as you might expect, the tiger ate the antelope.
It would be nice if, as Mr. Galloway suggests, we could simply be rid of this current batch of power-addled flies and make everything fine again. But there is another batch of alpha males waiting in the wings, itching to wield the scepter of the newly unitized executive office, itching to preside over our fat, torpid, demonstrably acquiescent populace. Alpha males are legion, the constitution is broken, the law serves private masters and Americans seem no better educated, no less hypnotized than before. To make that sad state of affairs go away would be good riddance indeed.
And if I may borrow this from a previous post...here's a small list.............
Greg Bacon November 23rd, 2007 5:43 am
They lied about Iraq not becoming another Vietnam.
They lied repeatedly–and still do to this day–about Saddam Hussein having connections to al-Qaeda.
They lied about the intelligence briefings both then NSA head Condi Rice and GW Bush had received in the Summer of 2001.
They lied about Jose Padilla wanting to use a "dirty" bomb an an American city.
They lied about knowing the possibilities of someone using an airplane as a weapon to attack buildings.
They lied repeatedly–and still do to this day–about using torture techniques on prisoners.
They lied about the threat level of the people picked up in Afghanistan and shipped to Gitmo, saying they're "bomb makers" and terrorists.
Less than 8% have any connection to aL-Qaeda.
They lied–and still do–about not spying on Americans unless they have a court order.
They lied in the outing of now former CIA undercover operative Valerie Plame Wilson.
They lied about the FISA Court–Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act–not issuing warrants in a timely manner.
They lied about the size and scope of the domestic spying the Bush/Cheney junta has been performing on its own citizens.
They lied about Iraq having biological and chemical weapons.
They lied about Iraq having a nuclear weapons program…Yellowcake, anyone?
They lied about Saddam having mobile facilities for producing biological warfare agents.
They lied about Iraq having UAV's–Unmanned Aerial Vehicle's–that could deliver chemical or biological agents to the U.S.
They lied about finding WMD's in post-invasion Iraq.
They lied about Iraq being an "imminent" threat to the United States.
They lied about the threat level of the then approaching Hurricane Katrina.
They lied about not knowing that the New Orleans levees were in danger of being breached.
They lied–and still do–about the need for an immediate fix on the Social Security fund.
They lied about the tax cuts going mostly to the middle class.
They lied about the estate tax saving the "family farm."
They lied about the 2003 Prescription Drug Bill cost Estimates.
They lied about Bush's "Clean Air Act" imposing stringent new rules on polluters.
They lied about mercury levels in young mothers.
They lied–and still do–about the effects of the tax cuts on the national debt.
They lied about the provisions of the "PATRIOT" Act.
They lied about the outgoing Clinton administration damaging White House property.
They lied about Bush's service in the Air National Guard.
They lied about the level of care our wounded veterans were receiving.
They lied about the amount of federal educational funding states would receive.
They lied about the number of Americans having access to clean drinking water and the threat of arsenic in drinking water.
They lied about using conservation as part of a National Energy policy.
They lied about the White House's connections to the now bankrupt company, Enron.
They lied about Bush being the first president to advocate for a separate Palestinian state.
They lied about their level of involvement in the attempted coup in 2002 of President Chavez of Venezuela.
They lied about Cheney's involvement in awarding contracts to his old firm, Halliburton. (Cheney still receives a deferred compensation package from Halliburton)
They lied about Bush supporting a patient's bill of rights, that would allow patients denied care the right to take their HMO to court.
They lied about the safety of imported prescription drugs from Canada.
They lied about the budget deficits being only "small and temporary."
They lied about the fact that Bush and the WH do conduct focus groups and listen to polls.
They lied about the war in Iraq having nothing to do with oil.
They lied about former NFL star Pat Tilman's murder in Afghanistan.
They lied–and still do–about people wanting to attack us for our freedom.
They lied about turning information over to the 9/11 Commission.
They lied–and still do– about addressing the security concerns and vulnerabilities at chemical plants and ports.
They lied–and still do–about Iran having connections to aL-Qaeda.
They lied–and still do–about Iran being a threat to the United States.
They lied about Saddam Hussein refusing to allow U.N. WMD inspectors into Iraq.
So, why in the hell should anyone believe ANYTHING this pack of professional liars has to say about the events that took place on September 11, 2001?
P.S. Thanks to the excellent web site, Bush Lies and to an article in the "Nation."
HabitatVic; Correct. Thanks for the Federalist Papers link in your post.
When Nancy Pelosi or any other Representative in Congress fail to uphold the 'oath of office' when they were sworn in, they are partners in crime with the lawbreakers of the Constitution and are themselves guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.
Arvy; Good post! Also, IFC is outstanding!
Kernal; One paragraph says it all!
"...shall we say, inoperative". Please stop the euphemisms. bush, Cheney, Rummy, Gonzalez, Rice et al....liars, liars, liars...plain and simple. Why do so many journalists find it difficult to use those words? When you have broken the oath of office hundreds, if not thousands of times, these "leaders" have lost any respect and protocol is NO LONGER RELEVANT. You may spin a lie like a top and it still remains a lie. For the last seven years, our country and the free world has been led by a pathological liar...bush II. Now, was that so hard to say??
We will be ready to show that we are a better country and do not stand for all those despicable things after it is too late, and people are bankrupt, homeless, jobless, hungry, sick and uninsured, old and destitute, and too scared to even complain about our plight. Then we will see how interested our rich , christian, compassionate, conservative, criminals are in helping everyone out. Look for a replay of "let them eat cake".
HabitatVic
Thanks for the history lesson. I have "The Federalist Papers" on my list of reading material. Apparently Naomi Wolf uses them as backup material for her interpretations of the Constitution, too.
It appears to me that allowing any president to issue pardons for anyone on his staff/cabinet/administration is a potential problem. For me, there's quite enough evidence already to support not only impeachment of Bush but conviction, too. He was so cocky, he admitted some of his more egregious acts. Yet, whatever part he and Cheney played in the illegal outing of Valerie Plame, for instance, will not be known in its entirety unless Libby, now pardoned, had spilled the beans to avoid a long stay in a prison cell.
IOW, in a wholly different situation, a presidential pardon of someone in his/her administration might well preclude the first open knowledge of an illegal act, which then could be used as a basis for impeachment of that president.
I think it would be better for Congress to do its job under Constitutional requirements vis a vis impeachment, of course, but I think ought to think about prohibiting any president from pardoning anyone in his/her administration (rather than just those convicted for crimes in which a president/VP is implicated that I mentioned before). People advising a president should NEVER be above the law. They aren't the ones who deserve pardons.
We are a better people and this is a better country than that ...
Really? It's not obvious.
In fact, apart from a lot of verbal diarrhea distancing the populace from any and all responsibility for what the 'greatest democracy on earth' actually does in its name, opposition seems limited mainly to decrying bad results rather than the misdeeds themselves. And even that range of opposition is usually further limited to domestic impacts. The real holocaust, when it enters the minds of the 'better people' at all, is a secondary consideration at best.
Amney,
No, the founding fathers did not want any future president to avoid the consequences of their wrong-doing. Their remedy was impeachment - of the President or his appointees - and that is why its a part of the Constitution itself.
As to clarification, that was documented in many instances. One of the most direct being in Federalist Paper # 69 ( http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed69.htm}. In that paper Hamilton elaborated on why the President was not an absolute power unto himself, and compared the presidential powers versus those of King George or the Governor of New York (who he felt had been granted too much authority at the time). Impeachment was viewed as the ultimate safety valve.
The issue of pardons was also covered, and how impeachment must be kept as an ultimate tool to prevent a President (or Monarch, or Governor) from using pardons to protect himself or his accomplices/enablers from paying the consequences of their own wrong-doing.
To wit: "If a governor of New York, therefore, should be at the head of any such conspiracy, until the design had been ripened into actual hostility he could insure his accomplices and adherents an entire impunity. A President of the Union, on the other hand, though he may even pardon treason, when prosecuted in the ordinary course of law, could shelter no offender, in any degree, from the effects of impeachment and conviction."
The founding fathers foresaw EXACTLY the situation that Bush has created. The problem is that our Democratic congress does not have the courage to proceed with impeachment. That malady, apparently, the founding fathers did not foresee.
To clarify this item of presidential rights, Congress needs to pass legislation prohibiting presidential pardons for members of an administration who implicate presidents and vice presidents in the crime for which potential "pardonee" has been prosecuted. I cannot believe the founding fathers ever intended presidents to be able to avoid the consequences of their wrong-doing this way. In fact, I'd bet my life on it.