Is Spineless Better Than Evil?
This guy’s sign at last week’s peace rally on the St. Paul Capitol steps really connected with a lot of people. But is the answer that clear?
Considering the slick double-talking of Minnesota Politician Norm Coleman, for example, whom we were able to recently capture on videotape (posted here), artfully dodging and deflecting our questions about why he won’t vote to end the occupation of Iraq, how can we even distinguish between what’s evil and what’s just spineless? Coleman says his is not double-talk, it’s “middle ground” and certainly many “fair and balanced” (and lazy) reporters willingly print what he tells them.
But Coleman happens to be one of only a handful of neocon-leaning Senators who co-sponsored the Kyl-Lieberman amendment which passed (once its worst language was removed) and could pave the way for Bush to launch a massive bombing attack on Iran. You know, the bombing that neocon Norman Podhoretz “hopes and prays for”and secretly urged Bush and Rove to begin not long ago. The letter Coleman currently sends out containing his views of “U.S. policy on Iran” is so full of double-talk, that it’s hard to figure out what he’s saying, but it’s probably significant when he inserts “the President may take necessary actions to defend American Security, but Congress must authorize these actions within 60 to 90 days, or the forces must be withdrawn.” Certainly 60 to 90 days is enough time for another promised cakewalk to turn into a new quagmire. Then Congress will get involved? Haven’t they learned that starting wars is a lot easier than ending them? Or do they really not care at all about this country’s national security?
Hardly on “middle ground”, Coleman supported the amendment BEFORE the bill’s backers were forced to take out its most incendiary language, including a provision “to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power … including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments“. Sen. Dodd, on the other hand, correctly pointed out that it takes little to “give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security. We learned in the run up to the Iraq war that seemingly nonbinding language passed by this Senate can have profound consequences. We need the president to use robust diplomacy to address concerns with Iran, not the language in this amendment that the president can point to if he decides to draw this country into another disastrous war of choice. We shouldn’t repeat our mistakes and enable this President again.”
As an aside, the only consolation in the terrible 76-22 vote on Kyl-Lieberman’s bill which helps pave the way for Bush-Cheney’s plan to bomb Iran was Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar’s “NO” vote along with 19 other Democrats and Republican Senators Hagel and Lugar. A number of us had been writing and calling her to “stand tall” and resist all the pressures, fear-mongering and special interest groups; but instead, to vote her conscience and do what’s right by the Minnesotans who elected her. The small group of 22 Senators “standing tall” yesterday, not giving their go-ahead to “War President” Bush’s third war, could not help but bring a lump in my throat as it rekindled memories of the late Paul Wellstone’s brave vote in October, 2002. Wellstone was the only Democratic incumbent facing a re-election challenge who voted “no” to the Iraq War along with 22 other Senators. The late Minnesota Senator apparently even defied recommendations from his own staff who wanted him to do the easier thing politically and just go along with the vote authorizing war on Iraq. Wellstone was threatened with loss of his re-election only a few weeks away–to none other than slick politician Norm Coleman. So how tough was Wellstone’s decision to vote his conscience under those circumstances?! (And if I may digress on a personal note, seeing Wellstone vote against authorizing a war that I knew to be totally unjustified and based on lies was the epiphany moment that changed me from having reflexively voted for Republicans most of my entire life.)
So the 22 bipartisan votes evidencing spine are proof, on a couple of levels, that this guy’s sign is not entirely correct. But polls do show public approval of Congress is down to 11% and there is that common perception of the Democratic majority in Congress being spineless.
Which brings us to the question: IS spineless better than evil? I hate to keep lecturing about this but as an ethics-teacher, and this hopefully being a teachable moment, . . .
Spineless IS better than evil. But spinelessness is characterized by silence and silence is complicity. Inaction is also complicity. The Kitty Genovese stabbing incident exposes how and why bystander apathy works. It is not true apathy but only (temporary) denial of an ugly, unpleasant truth (that a woman’s screams could possibly mean someone is being stabbed right below one’s window, in one’s own alley) and (temporary) confusion as to what to do about it. People are unprepared for such relatively unusual (and horrible) events. And this accounts for both their lack of initial vigilance as well as their inability to react quickly. So in the Kitty Genovese case, thirty eight otherwise good people ignored the sounds of a woman being stabbed but it wasn’t because they didn’t care. It was primarily because they hadn’t practiced for such an event. They hadn’t previously carefully considered what to do in such a situation.
Perhaps the most profound lesson of the last century’s most horrible event, the Holocaust was: “Thou shalt not be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.” The man judged to be smartest of the last century, Albert Einstein, similarly said, “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” These quotes certainly don’t mean that any one bystander is worse than any particular perpetrator or evil doer. What they mean is that the perpetrators are few in number while the bystanders are many and could easily stop the perpetrators if they only tried. Unfortunately this sad lesson of history seems to be repeating and, Holocaust museum sign nothwithstanding, few remember it.
I know one thing. If Paul Wellstone were alive, he would have been proud of Senator Klobuchar and the other 21 Senators who are not in denial about the potential disastrous consequences to giving another green light to this “war president.” I bet Wellstone would also be calling for all bystanders to immediately report for duty to stop the Bush-Cheney-Lieberman and other neocon war hawks from launching their third war in six years.
Coleen Rowley is a former FBI agent who now speaks publicly to various groups, ranging from school children to business/professional/civic groups, on two different topics: ethical decision-making and “balancing civil liberties with the need for effective investigation.” She is an occasional blogger for Huffington Post.
© 2007 Huffington Post
As long as we continue to vote for the lesser of two evils we still end up with evil.
Hell No. Evil is harmless as long as most people have some spine; its even harmless as long as a few people have real guts. We can whine about George all we want but his kind are always around. Whatever the boys in the back room gave these Democrats it was not nearly enough. “Whores sell the one thing that should never be for sale”–Clint Eastwood
I hope you Democrats who sold out my country are somehow exposed as the trash you are. You are all so eager to have people like you. You would probably rather die than have it known how much you did to so many for so little.
Colleen,
While I appreciate the point you’re making, I don’t think we can compare the spineless members of congress to those bystanders who couldn’t believe someone was screaming for her life in their neighborhood. In 2006, the Democrats ran for election and won the majority of votes on the issue of ending the Iraq war. Congress was not “unrehearsed” in what the issue was nor was it ignorant of the basis on which it was elected.
I think your conclusion at the end is correct — that the effect of complicity enables the evil to win anyway, but it is not a satisfying conclusion. Complicity is not the same as being bewildered by an event. Complicity is far more intentional than that.
Those who voted for a Democratic Congress thought they were in covenant with those who were elected, and we thought Congress knew WHY they were elected.
None of us can go cast Congressional votes for them. They may be labelled as our “representatives”, but they certainly weren’t. They betrayed that covenant.
Analogous to the failure of Congress would be calling the police when the screams of Kitty Genovese were first heard, and the POLICE arriving but standing by and letting it happen. America didn’t “stand by” while evil has been done. They voted in good faith for the Democrats to stop the crimes. Congress didn’t, with full knowledge ahead of time about the crimes.
“Sen. Dodd, on the other hand, correctly pointed out that it takes little to “give this President a green light to act recklessly and endanger US national security. ”
Why do the Molluscrats use the national security framework instead of one of international fraternity & global peace? A: They have to feed the war services & security industries & show AIPAC that they’re the good goys. Talking about world peace without armaments industries might give someone the impression that they were against over-armed mini-states.
Humanity is complex — unless we are destined to be programmed in some way to align to a singular order — not that far out a notion.
Within this complexity, much of what is evil exists because of the symbiotic relationship between bullies and spineless beings. In the end, both enable the evil. If bullies take charge — the spineless ones remain silent. If the spineless ones take charge — they soon retreat and are ruled by the bullies.
ALSO, within the ranks of humanity — are fierce, loving forces who have strong backs and determined visions. They don’t crave power or headlines — they are everyday people — leading ordinary lives — and do extraordinary things. This needs to be the focus of the leadership we promote and support among us and from us.
Seeing our future in terms of bullies and spineless ones is not visionary. It’s further entrenchment in the “evil” we now experience. Let’s move beyond seeing the choice for our future as a dance only among the sick and the weak.
There’s a lot more to us than Democrats and Republicans — liberal and conservative — bullies and spineless ones. That polarized way of thinking is a tragic trap. If there is hope, it will come from all of us getting up there on the stage and truly acting!
I believe that some Democrats, impatient with other Democrats, and calling them “spineless” is very, very destructive. Most Republicans are not wasting their energy calling other Republicans “evil”.
Democrats barely, barely have the Senate and cannot overcome either filibusters or vetoes. Many of the House Democrats are freshmen there, and ill-advised to risk the unknown consequences (both military and political) of the flat-out quick defunding of the war, as some have advised.
If we Democrats can demonstrate wisdom and common sense so as to attract more voters in 2008, a new Democratic president with a strong Democratic majority in Congress will prove anything but spineless. And the world will take notice.
We must remember that we are trying to remove the “kick butt” mentality that mistakenly overtook government via Republicans. Demanding that Democrats try in a flash to be bigger, badder butt-kickers isn’t going get us to that goal.
democrats aren’t spineless. those corporate warmongers know *exactly* what they’re doing.
If a thought that stupid entered my head I would never say it. Why not just carry a sign saying “I’M A DUMMY”
Dennis Kucinich is not spineless. I think he’s in the democratic party for strategic reasons. He’s the only one running who has the insight and courage to turn it all around. It seems like a long shot, but not impossible. The others will continue to drive the whole world to hell on earth.
Daniel David
Don’t talk about the Democrats not having enough votes to do this or that. That’s the most piss-poor excuse I’ve ever seen for Democrats who vote FOR the Bush agenda. Why the hell don’t they vote against it, even if they don’t have a majority when the votes are counted? Why would anyone WANT to elect more Democrats when they support the unitary executive now instead of voting against it?
It is truly sad how this once great nation has self destructed in so many different ways.
The world used to look up to us as a beacon for demcracy, progress, lifestyle, etc. but now we are held in contempt.
In global GDP per capita rankings we have slipped from the top to about #20 with the latest fall of the dollar. Even Ireland is well above us now.
For decades we have had either a Bush or a Clinton in the White House as President or VP, and we are likely to continue this Kafkaesque trend. Reminds me of Bangladesh.
From the world’s biggest creditor we have become the biggest debtor, at the financial mercy of other governments.
However, we are the still dominant military force in the world. But what good is it? About 90 percent of our personal income tax is wasted on our military, and there is no political courage for anyone to to address this taboo subject. Perhaps we should remember what happened to the Soviet Union which only had money for military security and nothing else.
I marvel at Europe’s impressive civilian infrastructure projects. What do we have to show for, other than our military prowess, with $350 million fighter planes and $15 billion carrier based runways for them - and a mountain of foreign debt which we incurred for our outrageous military projects and foreign adventures. Even PBS is now financed by “Boeing which is bringing us the technology to safguard our freedom”. Do we have more freedom than others because of Boeing? Only a brainwashed nation can believe this, and it makes me feel sorry for America. We could have done so much better.
Daniel David September 28th, 2007 12:59 pm
“I believe that some Democrats, impatient with other Democrats, and calling them “spineless” is very, very destructive. Most Republicans are not wasting their energy calling other Republicans “evil”.
Democrats barely, barely have the Senate and cannot overcome either filibusters or vetoes. Many of the House Democrats are freshmen there, and ill-advised to risk the unknown consequences (both military and political) of the flat-out quick defunding of the war, as some have advised.
If we Democrats can demonstrate wisdom and common sense so as to attract more voters in 2008, a new Democratic president with a strong Democratic majority in Congress will prove anything but spineless. And the world will take notice.”
There is a reason why Congressional approval ratings are at 11%. After we voted the Democrats into office in 2006 they not only haven’t done their jobs, they haven’t even tried. My take on it is that they think they can just coast along doing nothing, watching Bush self implode, and they will win in 2008 by default. Wrong IMO. We didn’t elect them to just coast. We elected them to do the hard things that need to be done because they are right. What did we get? A Speaker that took impeachment off the table before she was even elected to the position. And we got a bunch of whining about how they can’t beat a filibuster or override a veto. Both are wrong factually.
The Democrats could stop the war anytime by simply not funding it. They don’t even have to let a spending bill out of committee, and if there is no bill it can’t be filibustered or vetoed.
My take on it again, the Democrats are scared that if they do stop the funding they will be labeled as not supporting the troops. Not supporting the troops is lying to put them in harms way and getting almost 4,000 of them killed and almost thirty thousand of them wounded. They are also scared that if things get worse in Iraq after the defunding that they will be blamed. We heard the same thing about Viet Nam which ended drawing out that war for over ten years with 58,000 dead before it was over. The end result? We still left in 1975 in an ignoble retreat, helicoptering people off the embassy roof and pushing the helicopters off into the sea when they reached the waiting carriers.
The Democrats have a chance to do the right thing here and avoid a repeat of the Viet Nam fiasco. And that is what they get paid the big bucks for, not whining about how they can’t do this or they can’t do that when they can.
And don’t tell me to wait until 2008 when the Democrats will have a big enough majority to get us out. I watched the Democratic candidate debates last night and none of the three front running candidates would even promise to have our troops out by the end of their first term in 2013.
As for impeachment, we have the worst president in U.S. history that has blatantly violated the constitution, the law, international treaties, and the Democrats won’t even try to impeach him. My God, the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying about getting a BJ in the White House.
So no, don’t expect me to support or vote for the Democrats in 2008 if they refuse to stand up and do the right thing now. And I’m one of the voters they need, an independent swing voter. Isn’t it a shame that in this country neither one of the two major parties can attract enough voters on their own merits to be able to win elections on their own without help from independents? Both parties IMO need to take a close look at themselves and see what they are doing wrong and correct it if they want to remain viable. The voters, myself included, in this country are crying out for competent leadership that will turn the country around and head it in the right direction, rather than in the direction that the so called elites have been taking us. As of right now I don’t see that and a majority of the rest of the people in the country don’t either.
Lobo Gris
“If we Democrats can demonstrate wisdom and common sense so as to attract more voters in 2008, a new Democratic president with a strong Democratic majority in Congress will prove anything but spineless. And the world will take notice.”
The world has already taken notice of Democrats enthusiastically joining the next phase of the crusade.
‘Wisdom’ and ‘common sense’ — i.e., not impeaching Bush and Cheney, not cutting off war funding — these aren’t ‘wise’ or ‘commonsensical’ measures. Why are they unwise and uncommonsensical? Because they don’t have the votes. So we go round in a circle.
“Most Republicans are not wasting their energy calling other Republicans “evil”.
First, the majority of Republicans are wholly corrupt. That 30+ approval rating retained by BushCrime Inc. are the vast majority of Republicans.
Second, there are paleocons and libertarians who do call the Republican party evil.
The will of the people, not the political strategies of corporate shills and profiteers, should govern. When one receives, as I did, a response from my new, Democratic congressman saying that he didn’t see that any impeachable offenses had been committed by Bush or Cheney, but would be happy to vote for impeachment IF ANY WERE UNCOVERED, I conclude that they intend to continue to cover for & to extend the foreign policy of BushCrime.
The fact that Edwards, Obama, and HRC instantly took up the instruction of Bush — “Ya don’t know what you’ll face when you get in office” — confirms that conclusion.
I don’t know about you, but suspect the fellow who made this sign is probably chuckling quite a bit over this article. I think this sign was not intended as any kind of proposition to be deliberated over; rather, it was intended to be a humorous parody of our electoral choices!
Voting for the lesser of two evils has brought this country to ruin. Personally, I vow NEVER to vote this way again. Then again, with rigged elections, whatever button you push gives the same result.
Dichterfreund September 28th, 2007 1:50 pm
“When one receives, as I did, a response from my new, Democratic congressman saying that he didn’t see that any impeachable offenses had been committed by Bush or Cheney, but would be happy to vote for impeachment IF ANY WERE UNCOVERED”
If he doesn’t see any impeachable offenses he certainly doesn’t need to be in office. Something to keep in mind when he comes up for reelection.
Lobo Gris
Great reasoning, Lobo Gris:
“The Democrats could stop the war anytime by simply not funding it. They don’t even have to let a spending bill out of committee, and if there is no bill it can’t be filibustered or vetoed.”
This means that multinationalcorporations would miss thsir arms-indutry profits and presidential candidates would have to win on merits not on the amount of donations from military franchises.
Anney- Calling the police and having them stand by and do nothing while the slaughter continued? You mean like at Columbine and Virginia Tech? Billions to militarize our police and they stood outside and did nothing when they were really needed.
I always say, what good does it do to have facism if the Amtrak trains still don’t run on time? And what good does it do to have SWAT teams all dressed in black and looking sharp if they can’t even stop teenagers on a rampage?
“If he doesn’t see any impeachable offenses he certainly doesn’t need to be in office. Something to keep in mind when he comes up for reelection.”
When he held an ‘open forum’ with Nancy Pelosi, they shut out the local protestors. People here in NovaM’s metro area have learned very well — not through that single event, but through many — that we have to deal with a turncoat party indifferent to rights. Our Democratic governor is in deep with Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who keeps inmates roasting in the sun while he goes on television to decry people who mistreat animals — a true nazi if ever there was an american nazi (not stupid enough to wear the armband, of course).
Wasn’t John Kerry spineless in the face of polce brutality when he just sat, passive and remote, as a student was tasered before his eyes for exercising his right to fre speech?
The mantra “spineless Democrats” needs some examination. I’ve been watching Democrats for a long time. Clinton was one who advocated “pre-emptive strikes” against non-compliant countries, he cleared the way for Bush by regularly bombing Iraq, oversaw sanctions and the resulting deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, fought tooth and nail to get Republicans to go along with NAFTA (Repubs were historically against that kind of free trade, he had to work hard to convince them), was happy to sign the Telecommunications Act of 1996 giving giant media even more power, pushed welfare mothers into low paying jobs and away from their children, sabotaged single-payer health-care, and you can read what Noam Chomsky and others have to say about the criminal acts Clinton oversaw in the Balkans. In the Viet Nam era, Democrats lied to the American people and thus were able to extend and escalate that miserable war on the Vietnamese people and young American (many drafted) soldiers. Read A people’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn for further evidence that your “spineless” Democrats have plenty of spine for war and ripping the rug out from under ordinary Americans. It’s the so called “anti-imperialist liberals” who have no spine.
If they aren’t spineless, why else would they “go along” with the Bush agenda? They’re “Wanna Bees,” that’s why. Is that so hard for people to swallow? Look, any Democrat is free to vote, fillibuster, use the bully pulpit, and really change things. They know about the slaughter. The reason they don’t is because they’re actually in favor of the hegemonic agenda. Get used to it or find another party but please don’t call them “weak,” “spineless,” “afraid.” Of what? A president with approval ratings in the toilet and most Americans wanting the war to end?
Oregoncharles: Nailed it.
Daniel David ( 12:59 pm) writes,
“I believe that some Democrats, impatient with other Democrats, and calling them “spineless” is very, very destructive….
Democrats barely, barely have the Senate and cannot overcome either filibusters or vetoes…
If we Democrats can demonstrate wisdom and common sense…, a new Democratic president with a strong Democratic majority in Congress will prove anything but spineless. And the world will take notice.”
This is utter garbage & malarkey. Like many Americans, you just don’t know what you’re talking about, & you should be reading up on what you don’t know, rather than spreading malarkey.
First of all, it’s pure BS about the “can’t overcome vetoes” stuff. All Pelosi had to do to stop the war last May was to refuse to allow any bill funding the war to be passed. That takes only a simple majority (51%) of the House. In the Senate, it’s even easier: you only need 40 votes to sustain a filibuster. That means 40 Dem Senators could have filibustered any bill that funded the war.
Secondly, your assertion that “a Dem majority will prove anything but spineless” means that very similar to the guy in the photograph at the top of the article, you’re basically holding up a sign that says, “I don’t know beans about American history.” The Democrats always collude in (or even initiate) these criminal & monstrous interventions into other countries. Read Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, or William Blum, before you come here making more noise than your low level of knowledge would justify.
rebelnow:
“As long as we continue to vote for the lesser of two evils we still end up with evil.”
Then get behind Dennis Kucinich!
I’m reminded of the old Labor Party slogan: The Bosses Have Two Parties. We Need One Of Our Own.
Oregoncharles, I’m confused. I agree that dems are in favor of the hegemonic agenda. But where do the anti imperialists fit in? I can think of only a handfull of anti imperialists in congress, Kucinich for one. And they seem to be doing everything they can. There are too many corporate whores in congress and they have rigged the game so that no leftist will ever gain power. Therefore, it is up to people like us to do what we can to change the system from the grassroots up.
But…as we socialists say. It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. It’ll take another depression. Maybe.
Good people:
“THE DEMOCRATS” is an ILLUSION.
The two-party system is an inescapable product of our winner-take-all electoral structure. We have had these same two parties since the Civil War. During that time, they have both changed radically. We will have these same two parties a hundred years from now, if the USA survives. The question is, How much will they have changed and in what directions, and how fast?
The Democrats in Congress are people who, 1) won a Democratic Primary and 2) won a general election. Anyone can run in a Democratic primary for nomination as a Democratic candidate. Absolutely nothing prevents progressives from organizing to challenge “Blue Dog” and “spineless” Democrats by running or supporting progressives with spine.
It is far easier for a progressive to win a Democratic primary and go on to win a Congressional seat as a Democrat than it is for her to win that seat as a Green. In fact, the latter has never been accomplished.
So stop whining about how spineless or what a mixed bag the current crop of Congressional Democrats are, and start working to REPLACE THEM. The way to do that is through the primary election process; the other way (a third party) cannot work in a winner-take-all system.
Daniel David, This is so pathetic I can hardly find the words to answer this. It sounds exactly the same as the 2000 election mantra, We have to vote for “Al Whore” because he is the lesser of two evils. While it is a fact that “The Whore” won the election by over a half million votes, he ran such an abysmal campaign, where it was almost impossible to distinguish between him (Al Whore) and “The Idiot”, dubya. In the debates they were climbing over each other they agreed on so many things. In one debate, they agreed with each other 34 times!!!! 34 TIMES!!!!! And of course, one of the greatest americans who has ever lived, Ralph Nader, was crucified as a spoiler, an egomaniac, a criminal, etc. etc. Well everything he said, turned out to be true, EVERYTHING!!!!!!! “There isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties”. It’s really a one party system when you think about it. There are still quite a few, many, many, demopublicans, who still blame Ralph for everything that’s going wrong today! Now you talk about DENIAL!!!! This is beyond SICK, it is the most TWISTED excuse for ineptitude, wait I correct myself, it is COMPLICITY. Everything, and I mean everything, that “the idiot”, cheney,and these evil, twisted MAD DOG neo-cons have done, was done with the absolute conscience complicity of the demopublicans and no amount of whining and lies will convince me otherwise. Plus, it’s out there for everyone to see. It’s open source material.
I have been voting my conscience since 1996, and will continue to do so, if I vote at all. It is the only way that any change can happen, outside of complete armed revolution, which has as much chance of happening as bush becoming a rocket scientist. Pretty goddamned slim I’d say. Change from voting has about the same chance. Because if someone like Nader does win, he’d be assasinated
at the swearing in ceremony in all likelihood. In the first month or two anyway. It looks pretty bleak. But as someone wrote a week or so ago, I’m just going to try and be the change I’d like to see. Americans seem to be too busy shopping, worrying about what was in Anna Nicole Smith’s refrigerator when she died, obsessed with which one of these cut-throat, back stabbing son of a bitches is going to win survivor, watching movies about a rat that cooks, (a cute rat though!), condemning an ad supposedly belittleing the military, while hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s are dying, our sons, daughters, and cousins are sent off to a war to be killed and maimed, that was started on lies to GET THE OIL from Iraq. There isn’t enough money to insure our children, but there’s enough money to give the haliburton’s, bechtel’s, blackwater’s, over 500 million a day!!!!!!! This is beyond sick and twisted!!!! Yet, the american people kick back and watch another episode of some
of the most mind numbing, intelligence insulting shit you could ever dream up.
Somebody please help us.
The sign the man carries is not stupid, but the essence of sublime. I feel your pain, brother.
Well, I certainly attracted some vigorous debate from several above who think I’m a buffoon. But I’m not eager to see Giuliani or Thompson appointing the Supreme Court for 8 years while bully-mouthing around and continuing our presence in Iraq/Iran for 5 decades instead of 5 years. Regardless how strongly you feel about this or that, you still have to win the 2008 election in order to have anything. And it’s still the older conservative crowd that actually turns out at the polls. And many of them hate Hillary anyway. So I hope people with hot tempers can actually produce
Democratic votes. If not, it’s loserville, again.
Thanks Woody. Good points.
‘Nader2000′ (4:38 pm) writes, “The Democrats in Congress are people who, 1) won a Democratic Primary and 2) won a general election. Anyone can run in a Democratic primary for nomination as a Democratic candidate. Absolutely nothing prevents progressives from organizing to challenge “Blue Dog” and “spineless” Democrats by running or supporting progressives with spine….So stop whining about how spineless or what a mixed bag the current crop of Congressional Democrats are, and start working to REPLACE THEM”
- No, you left out most of the real requirements. (If it were nearly as easy as you make it out to be, isn’t it odd that we always wind up with a collection of almost uniformly corporatist/militarist/imperialist Democrats?) The consistency of that outcome alone tells you that your theory bears little resemblance to reality.
The real requirements for being elected to Congress include being acceptable to the local power brokers & media in your area. Often you must also be well-regarded by the Democratic national machine. And you need plenty of money — something true progressives often don’t have, while successful business people have lots of it. Those “unofficial” requirements mean that in effect, all candidates must be (or appear to be) members in good standing of “The Establishment.” There’s very little room for dissenters or mavericks; every step of the way, there are various filters designed to weed them out.
Any “progressive candidate” who says that military spending should be markedly reduced will immediately be attacked as being “soft on national security.” Any candidate who says that big corporations are receiving “corporate welfare” from the federal government, and that this should be stopped — this person will be attacked for being “anti-business.” Anyone saying that he or she opposes illegal US wars will be charged with not supporting the troops. If you say you think Bush & Cheney are war criminals, & should be impeached, you’d likely be condemned by local media (& the national Dem machine) as being “rude, inappropriate, & probably mentally unbalanced.” If you criticize the destructive aspects of capitalism itself, they’ll just call you a “throwback to the Communist era,” & your views will receive no coverage whatsoever.
In other words, all positions that define a real “progressive” are really off-limits. THAT is why there is not more than 18 or so Democrats in Congress supporting Kucinich’s articles to impeach Cheney (and so far, none that are trying to impeach Bush). That is why ALL the Dem leaders go along with Bush’s wars, condemning MoveOn, & the current build-up to the bombing of Iran (not to mention torture, last month’s revoking of the 4th Amendment, stolen elections, Gitmo, habeas corpus, & so on).
I think RichM may be beginning to “get it” that you still have to win an election — per most recent post above. Hooray.
Spineless = passive aggressive evil.
Still evil, just more annoying.
I am a registered Democrat. I will be voting in my state’s primary election next year, and I will be voting for Kucinich.
If Kucinich does not get the Democratic nomination then I will have considered the Democratic party’s ideals too far removed from my own and will therefore re-register myself as either Green or independent. I know I am not alone.
There’s a message here, and that message is simply whatever political maneuvering the Democrats have relied on to pull ’swing’ voters (assuming that was ever even a real consideration, whatwith the fat corporate donations rolling in) has backfired miserably.
Democrats are losing voters over this, and they HAVE to know it by now, right? Are they counting on enough ’swing’ or ‘I-hate-Republicans-now’ votes to make up for the large (and growing in direct proportion to political awareness) chunk of their base they are disenfranchising?
Pretending to fight while holding one hand around your back and using the free hand to slap yourself around (vis-a-vis MoveOn’s Betraeus fiasco) isn’t a political strategy for success. I promise.
What HAVE the Democrats done to deserve my continuing support? Rised the minimum wage from atrocious to merely ludicrous? Voted twice to make war with Iran easier? (Don’t give me any bullshit here, they made Iran an official terrorist sponsor state and BOTH (IIRC) AUMF bills allow Bush to attack a state with such a designation.) What else?
Oh, they can’t beat a filibuster. Okay, they have methods of doings so actually (like making the Republicans actually FILIBUSTER instead of just saying ‘no, it’s fine, we know you’ll filibuster so we won’t bother’) but let’s assume that’s too hard. Let’s talk about the nastiness they keep passing. What possible excuse can you have for the further slide of civil liberties at home? What POSSIBLE universe could it be just fine for Kerry to stand there watching (and joking, the demented bastard) a guy get tased for asking uncomfortable questions nervously?
See, that’s why you’ve lost me and others like me, and will lose many more. I started this post nice and calmly, now I’m pissed. You cannot win elections when your base thinks about what you’ve done as the majority party and gets pissed about it. If that’s some revelation to political science, then we need new political scientists (sic).
Calls for teamwork fall on deaf ears when the team stands only for looking better than the other team. If you’re not going to fight (yes, FIGHT, as opposed to the dramatic roll-overs I’ve been seeing) for my interests then you cannot possibly receive my vote to be my representative (that’s a very important word, contemplate it) to our social-contract-forum.
*sigh* The worst part is, the Democratic party apparatus really doesn’t care what I think other than an indication of how successful their marketing has been. If any of them read this, they’ll just look for holes in my antipathy to exploit in a new ad. AT MOST, they’ll try to find a catchphrase that really moves me. It’s all marketing now. What happens when the marketing is the product is the marketing?
Vote sanely and you’ll get me back. Kucinich is sane, demand your party apparatus give him a real shot. Once people get to hear him over and over the shear simplicity of his common sense politics will win you millions, possibly tens of millions.
Give it a shot, you can’t do much worse than you are now. Unless a slide into a unitary executive with top-tier corporate councilors is what you want, and you’re just trying to distract me while you make the final preparations. The fact that anyone reasonably sane could not be SURE that that isn’t the case speaks volumes in and of itself.
Oregoncharles
Bill Clinton did all that, but all anyone remembers is the robust economy at that time.
Money talks.
If you ever wondered why the Democrats constantly roll over for the Republicans, there’s some background here.
It isn’t cowardice. It’s a death-wish.
For me, spineless is worse than evil. It is deceptively evil in that they pretend not to endorse evil but in actuality they do. Like a priest who preaches compassion while molesting the children.
The Iran war will be Pelosi’s war. What a hopeless Speaker she has turned out to be. I have talked with a member of the SF DCCC and he believes that she still has about 60-70% of the Democrats there on her side.
The Democrats have become accomplices to the Bush regime and we are only seeing the beginning.
Eleanor Roosevelt once said:
“POVERTY IS AN EXPENSIVE LUXURY. WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.”
The evil and spinesless are both corrupt and impoverished!
frank1569 September 28th, 2007 5:43 pm
“Spineless = passive aggressive evil.
Still evil, just more annoying.”
You nailed it, Frank!
As the aptly titled book by William Rivers Pitt states, The Greatest Sedition is Silence. The evildoers currently running (ruining) the US depend on a propaganda campaign of fear to quell dissent and to keep the masses manipulated, afraid, and silent. Congress has no excuse; its members-Republican and Democrat–actively participate in this farce, which makes them both spineless and evil. Remember the old fable? It took an innocent child to finally speak up and announce that the emperor had no clothes. How many times must the Bu$h Administration be exposed as criminals before this country stops quivering in fear? If people aren’t outraged by now, they are definitely not paying attention.
The mere fact that the Bu$h Regime is still operating proves sufficiently that when people are manipulated into thinking that dissent is un-American, they become complicit in the regression of representative democracy into reactionary fascism. I thought Germany circa 1933 was a lesson learned, but then again, most Americans either suffer historical amnesia or possess no historical perspective. Truth is, most Americans can be convinced to do or believe anything, even when it means supporting evil people and unlawful programs that run counter to the benefit of their own lives, liberties, and pursuits of happiness. How else explain the success of monotheistic religions? Evil politicians know this; they laugh all the way to the bank. I challenge one (non-elite) neo-con dogmatist to tell me one thing that the Bu$h Regime has done in the last 7 years to make his or her life better. So far, everyone I’ve asked stands, well, silent…..
When you start with a false assumption then your entire discourse becomes useless. And the false assumption is that “the democrats are spineless”.
But in reality the Dems are doing exactly what their constituents are asking them to do.
Here again, there is an assumption that the working Americans are the constituents of the Dems. But in reality their constituents are: military industrial complex, big money and the Israeli lobby.
Now go back and revisit everything the Dems have done since we invaded Iraq. It will be pretty clear that they are not spineless but very courageous and determined: in spite of overwhelming opposition of American citizens the Dems have continued their course of not ending the war, and not prosecuting this administration for war crimes and shredding of our constitution.
Really, I am not being ironic here. Think through what I have just said, and you’ll see it all makes sense. Democrats are bold, determined and steadfast.
RichM writes:
“The real requirements for being elected to Congress include being acceptable to the local power brokers & media in your area. Often you must also be well-regarded by the Democratic national machine. And you need plenty of money — something true progressives often don’t have, while successful business people have lots of it. Those “unofficial” requirements mean that in effect, all candidates must be (or appear to be) members in good standing of “The Establishment.” There’s very little room for dissenters or mavericks; every step of the way, there are various filters designed to weed them out.”
That’s what you need to get the support of the forces you mentioned. Yes, that’s usually how it works in the primary elections, and in the general elections, too. All these reasons that you say prevent progressives from winning the Democratic nomination are the same reasons that prevent them from winning office as Greens, Reds, or anything else.
There is one more big reason why progressives cannot win outside of the Democratic Party: The candidates that do win the major party nominations get lots of support not only from special interests but also from loyal party voters. Many voters will not want to give their votes to candidates they expect to lose, even if they like what those candidates say better than what the major-party candidates say. Third parties lose, lose, lose and lose. You cannot build a party that way and amass enough support to start winning.
However, if you think that grassroots organizing from the Left can become a significant force in American electoral politics, you can use it within the Democratic primary process and begin to have some influence even before you are able to capture elections, and capture Democratic nominations even before you are able to win general elections, and win offices and power long before you would ever be able to do that as a third party, particularly in view of the fact that the latter is something you would never be able to do.
proud of Senator Klobuchr?????? Should I laugh or cry? She voted for the FISA law and she voted to condemn the MoveOn ad, while Iraq burns our money, $100 million a day, or is it $700 million a day? This is all beyond me…
11 % approval rating - just like the two guys running from the bear, to save your life, you don’t have to run faster than the bear, just faster than the other guy.
get it?
All I can say is to quote an old saying, “Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.” Said by Edmund Burke.
I continually hear that the Democrats can’t do one thing or another because they haven’t the votes. Well, the Reublicans are just as slender a minority as the Democrats are a majority, and they still manage to run the show.
As has been said:
Force the Republicans to filibuster: let them explain why they are hanging up legislation - and while they’re at it, why ‘filibuster’ is suddenly a respectable word again and whatever happened to the ‘nuclear option’ threatened when they were in the majority and wanted no trouble from any of the few Democrats who might have wanted to prevent a truly scurrilous bill from being passed.
The Democrats might not have the votes to overcome a veto, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t pass and submit bills that might be votoed anyway - then just pass them again and again and again, until Bush figures it out - (or somebody explains it to him) - that nothing at all is going to get done until he signs **something**. A even better tactic would be to present ‘worse’ and ‘worse’ bills for Bush to sign - getting farther and farther from what he might find tolerable. A few rounds of that, and what might happen?
The Democrats could make a big noise about the **obstructionist Republicans**, as well. Even in today’s media, a big enough stink still gets someone’s attention. “The obstructionist Republicans are trying to thwart the people’s will!” would make a pretty good battle cry. (Someone might even be able to see that it is only the flip side of the old Republican salvo against the Dem minority.)
All the Democrats would have to do is follow what the Republicans did when they were in the minority last time. (Of course, they’ll have to scream more loudly, as the media are not very responsive to the Democrats.)
But the bottom line is, just because you can’t get a veto-proof majority, that doesn’t mean you have to run in the other direction and jump on board the Republican ship. Voting with the Republican minority is simply not excusable in any way or under any circumstances.
Their phony excuses are no more than cover-ups for the fact that these Democrats far too often want to cast the votes they do. I can’t believe this ’spineless’ nonsense. Go down fighting - it’s not as though it would actually cost you your lives, (unlike our troops whom you will not bring home).
Finally, perhaps some in the Democratic ‘leadership’ will admit that it was a huge error not to buy up media but let them fall into the hands of the Republican Noise Machine, and will agree that it is past time to change course. This Noise Machine did not simply spring up overnight. This is one outcome of decades of truly bad decision-making on their part. Go to http://www.consortiumnews.com for articles on these screw-ups of the Democratic ‘leadership.’
Dems, Repugs, mearly the two heads of a single venomous viper, the body of which is stuffed with the stolen treasures of the public wealth and trust. Every dragon has it’s soft spot and it’s up to us as a people to find it and thrust a poisonous spear into it as deep as we can.
Spineless is the necessary accomplice of evil.
Republican = Democrat = War
Democrat = Republican = Corporativist Government
Republican = Democrat = We get screwed
I wish people would stop talking about ‘bad decisions’ of Democrats. Along with their ’spineless’ qualities or about how they ‘cave’ or ‘retreat’ all the time. That is all just the backup mythology behind the third-way nonsense they used to run with. It still all supposes that they would want something different from the world they’ve helped to create if they could just have a magic wand or something.
That diverts your vision from realizing that just maybe the Democrats are doing exactly what they want to do and how to do it. Or, I’m sure they’d love to be completely in power and dominate the White House and the Congress. But that doesn’t mean your world would be much different, because they just want to put a very slightly center-right spin on the same basic policies that the Republicans push. That’s for purely selfish reasons of power hungary politicians more than its to benefit the people in any way.
When a mistakes are made, leaders can be changed, consulting strategists can be replaced. But when a group continuously follows the same policies for 20 or so years, both in and out of the White House and the control of Congress, then you can start to ignore their hollow-sounding claims that they had a ‘bad strategy’ or ’spineless’ leaders. That’s just BS to try to make people stick with them for just a little while longer and hopefully not notice that they start illegal wars, commit war crimes, and outsource your jobs over to China just like the other guys.
I like the comments by Oregoncharles, RichM, and Nader2000. My opinion is that corporate Democrats (true progressives excepted) are not spineless. They are courageous. They have the courage to support their true constituents—their rich donors. They are standing up strongly against the progressive and semi-progressive citizens who want the occupation to end and who want more progressive domestic, foreign and electoral policies.
I prefer a two-party strategy: work for progressive growth inside the Democratic Party and strengthen the Green Party. There are over 20 progressive caucuses in State Democratic Parties. There is a Congressional Progressive Caucus. There is a Green Party with over 300,000 members. All are progressive. (The CPC has about one third, say, 20 to 23, true progressives.) I agree with replacing the corporate Democrats with progressive ones. And I like helping the Green Party where we can. In my state we wrote the progressive caucus bylaws so that members could be in either or both parties: Green and Democratic, or be independent. We also did not have an age limit, so HS age people can join.
Let’s get going. YOU can make it 21 states that have a progressive caucus in a US state. (Or if you have one already, join it and make it grow.)
COMarc
I agree. As I said, I don’t buy this spineless nonsense. There are a lot of things the Democrats could do that wouldn’t take a great deal of courage. It is, indeed, a cover-up for the fact that many are voting exactly as they want and using the Republican attacks or the lack of a veto-proof majority as cover.
As for me, the mistakes I wrote of that the Democratic leadership made refers not to Congressional voting, but to such things as the party allowing the right to buy up media outlets to the point where they have a vitual monopoly.
That was a mistake - and it hurts all progressives.
Typical lying nonsense from the Huffington Post, another ’spineless Democrats’ article. Democrats have a lot of spine. It takes a lot of BALLS to pull what Pelosi and Reid have been pulling. Mainstream blogs like HP sell the false the idea that there’s actually a difference between the parties.
Well, there is, at least with Republicans we know where we stand. Democrats have cooperated with Bush for 7 years now. They had at least 40 Senators since 2000, they could have blocked EVERY ONE of Bush’s criminal enterprises. Instead they did nothing. And yet, they pretend to be an opposition party. Shame on Democrats and shame on Arianna Huffington for propagating more lies.
Tetti_tatti, You smokin dope man, I had to go to the top and make sure this was the same article after reading your post. Please enlighten me as to what great feat Pelosi and Reid are pulling off? Pelosi has given all the spineless Democrats cover not to get on board with impeachment of at least Cheney so the world sees us a citizenship compliant with our Nation’s illegal wars and bullying of other Nations.
Not sure what her point is but here in Minnesota we have had a few good senators Wellstone and McCarthy are two of them. Amy needs to fully prove herself. Coleman sucks period, he was a dem but what is the diff anyway ? About this sign in St Paul why not show the one that said, ” Vote for Dennis ” or a different one that read ” All House Members are up for re-election in 2008 get all new ones. about 30 some senators get new ones, one Pres get one with brains.” A friend of mine had that last one. As for spineless vs evil ? we do not have to have one or the other. We can have gutsy and good, but if dem then barely and closer to green or socialist or a people’s party. Not a remake of the rich.
The Repugs are laughing their heads off watching the Dumocrats operate. Repugs win everything whether they are majority or minority. The Dumbs are like a football team that is scared to kick or throw the ball, and just lay down on it every play so they won`t take a chance of losing any yardage. They even let Lieberman write the bills that the Repugs want passed and then put them through with a big vote YES. Notice that Hagel, a staunch Republican, had the guts to vote NO. If you didn`t see this disgraceful fiasco of a Congress it would be hard to believe it really happened.
Let’s reject both of these evil parties. Congress and the senate are just a sham anyway. They don’t seem to have any power. There is a secret government that is not elected that is running things. They have total control of practically every media source from movies to radio to TV to public broadcasting. It’s worse than Pravda because with Pravda everyone new the whole thing was phony. Our propaganda machine still has a lot of people fooled, thinking they are actually getting the “news”.
Yes they are spineless and will be reviled for all of history for people to see.
The parsing of the Kitty Genovese analogy strikes me as sophistical. The apathy was the result of not caring and had nothing to do with the novelty of the situation. If you care, you get up, part the curtains, see the crime, call the cops. If you don’t care, you ignore the unpleasantness and try to forget it. It is less about spinelessness than about caring.
Why this condition of extreme detachment exsts is another question.
This not-caring is fatal, to Kitty Genovese, and to our Republic. It may be temporary, but it will persist until it’s too late to do anything about it but cry over the blood in the streets.
Political spinelessness = not caring about the Republic.
Woody, in a post above calls Al Gore “Al Whore”. I voted Nader in 2000, and I was also disappointed in Gore’s failure to show great leadership and stand up to Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court, and the media. He proved to be less than a super hero, and this failing allowed a brutal criminal regime to take the levers of power.
What do you do when, as a true believer in the rule of law, the Supreme Court breaks the law?
Al Gore, in retrospect, can see what’s going on now if he was at the time overwhelmed and confused and weak-in-the-knees. You have only to read “The Assault on Reason” if you need proof.
This Republic has fallen into the hands of a criminal cabal that has successfully trashed the Constitution and put in place the framework for authoritarian government. Daniel Ellsberg, an American hero, has noted, somewhat belatedly, that a coup has already taken place and the next stage of that coup threatens to be enacted. George Bush is not simply an ethically and intellectually challenged individual incapable of normal human empathy responses, he is an unindicted criminal who has successfully evaded the consequences of his behavior throughout his life. He is the fruit of a rotten family tree.
This is not a time to be arguing about political process and party politics, it is a time to be thinking clearly about the Republic itself. Voters rarely do that. Most are like the blind men feeling the elephant. Elections are often driven by isolated issues, tails, ears, legs, trunks, but not the elephant itself. This is an election that is bigger than the Iraq War or health care.
If you don’t have in your own mind a detailed image of that Republic and something of its history, if you don’t know your Constitution and cannot explain specifically how this administration has violated the Constitution, if you cannot explain why the action of the Supreme Court in 2000 was a betrayal of its Constitituional role, then your vote has little meaning. You need to read Al Gore’s book, “The Assault on Reason”. That’s a start.
Political realities are starkly defined, but you may not truly realize that. You may think the pendulum is swinging back to the left. You may believe we’ll muddle through like we always have. You may be consoling yourself with some comfortable nostrum. You may hear the screaming and carrying on somewhere outside, down in the alley, but it’s not Hillary Clinton getting mugged, it’s Hillary Clinton and George Bush et al mugging the Republic.
This is actually a single big issue election. That is the Constitution and the rule of law.
Daniel David September 28th, 2007 4:59 pm
“I hope people with hot tempers can actually produce Democratic votes. If not, it’s loserville, again.”
If the Democrats want to win they need to win over the most people by representing the people that vote them into office. Instead they choose to represent the lobbyists and special interest groups and then tell the voter through people like you that we have to vote for them anyway because they are not as evil as the other guys. That is always a losing scenario for the voter regardless of which party wins. Fortunately people are waking up to what is being done and I don’t think it will work this time.
The bottom line is that if they choose to ignore the people they deserve to be in loserville as you put it.
Lobo Gris
What a bunch of pathetic fools we are. Is spineless better than evil? How can it be if it’s a complete illusion. There is no such thing as spineless, once you actually look at what is meant by the term. The more you examine the term the filmier it gets, until you don’t have anything left but bullshit. Isn’t it interesting that democrats always seem to find a way to destroy their chances to win decisively enough to overcome the dirty-tricks republicans plan for we losers. Notice how certain people on this list are absolutely thrilled that we asked this moronic question about spinelessness, because they know they can make headway against us, and bring us a step closer to defeat in ‘08, and do it with our own permission. It’s useless to make clear any number of things about political reality, such as, that the democratic party leadership, must consist of members that reflect “all” of the views of “all” of the democrats, and not just the views of the most liberal democrats. There are a huge number of conservative democrats in my party, and their views “must” be reflected in their representatives in Congress and the Senate; otherwise the democratic party will be a much smaller party, and be less able to stand up to republican bullying than we are now. But you’re too busy making fun of Bill and Hillary, just as your republican masters have brainwashed you into doing; too busy attacking yourselves for not being “progressive” enough, even though a moron will tell you that the dem party is as big as it is, precisely because it has a considerable conservative element, and that element must be represented by demcocratic leaders. So instead of forming a common bond with your conservative brothers in the democratic party, and discussing your disagreements rationally and reasonably, you pretend that conservative democrats don’t exist, and listen to the deceitful garbage you hear from media republicans, telling you that democrats have become too liberal a party, and that has meant that we’re too polarized, blah, blah, blah. The reality is, that moderate democrats have ceased to get a hearing in our party, and are demonized by the repbublicans in media, as too liberal, and by “us,” as spineless. In fact, it’s the republicans that have moved so far to the right, that they make the conservatives in our party “look” like liberals, and make the liberals look like rabid communists. Stop buying the garbage you hear on CNN and FOX, and learn to respect “all” the members of your party, and you’ll get the kind of country you claim you want, and, stop pissing off any chance of getting it, because you show contempt against, and mock huge elements of your own party. Republicans want nothing more, than to see us destroy ourselves; stop obliging them.
jp
The spineless ones, aka the also evil ones, just voted $9,000,000,000.00 of our money for more war, death, destruction, imprisionment, torture, etc, etc, etc in Iraq.
Words don’t count. Actions count. You are either for Bush or against Bush. And when you vote more of our money for more war you aren’t with us.
There are only 15 people in both Houses with the convictions and character to vote NO. Don’t be fooled, there’s only two votes. These are the ones with heart.
In the Senate … Feingold.
‘The “no” votes in the House, all cast by anti-war members, came from one Republican, Ron Paul of Texas, and 13 Democrats: Oregon’s Earl Blumenauer, Missouri’s William Clay, Minnesota’s Keith Ellison, California’s Bob Filner, Massachusetts’ Barney Frank, New York’s Maurice Hinchey, Ohio’s Dennis Kucinich, Washington’s Jim McDermott, New Jersey’s Donald Payne, California’s Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, Diane Watson and Lynn Woolsey.’
–http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=237751
Support these people, but also ask them to help support building a party anda movement to stop this. It ain’t gonna be the Republicans or Democrats.
Trust your heart. Trust your instincts as to what’s right and what’s wrong and who’s on your side and who isn’t. Watch actions, don’t listen to words.
Just spent 24 hours in airports and airliners with Naomi Klien’s latest book for company. Read it! She presents with remarkable insight and clarity what’s been happening over the last 30 to 40 years.
This is why I disagree when I hear the Democrats say ‘it was a mistake’ when they talk about action like selling off the public media and licenses to the corporations. That was part of what had been built in this country in the 40 years or so after the Great Depression as a bit of partnership between a government its people. It was a firm line between a philosophy of government that believed in a partnership with the people and that a government had to serve the people …. and the current model where all assets that were built are to be sold off to the corporations.
The Democrats were well paid for selling out the Republic and the entire concept of government being a partnership with the people. It most certainly was a mistake. I’d go so far as to call it treachery. But what I’m not buying is the Democrats now coming to me and saying ‘oh, it was a mistake’, and then asking me to help put them in power. If it was a mistake, then they need to make it right. I don’t see them trying. Watch actions not words. Hillary holds big fundraisers with Rupert Murdoch. Nuff Said.
Its about love and its about trust. Its about people who fight for you, and people who don’t. Trust the person who will stand beside you and fight when you are fighting for you lives. Trust the person who gives you a hand when you are down. Do the same for others. Your heart will guide the way.
The reality of the two-party system is that it is pure theater..expensive theater, but theater none the less…as long as we continue with privately financed elections the public will not be served…the military-industrial complex finances both the republican and democratic parties and whoever pays the piper calls the tune…..no chance this will ever change until the revolution which probably won’t happen until the next depression and even then i wouldn’t count on it
>no chance this will ever change until the revolution which probably won’t happen until the next depression and even then i wouldn’t count on it
you never know. look at Argentina.
Neomunk — it makes much more tactical sense to re-register as Green NOW, not later. Switch back temporarily 4-6 weeks ahead of the primary if you so desire, then switch back. Switching now can give Dennis and all progressives a boost, because the growing Green numbers say where you stand on major issues:
1-end this illegal war now
2-impeach both Cheney and Bush
3-Safeguard our Constitution and rights
4-single-payer universal health insurance
5-safeguard women’s rights to privacy, choice and equal treatment
6-normalize Labor’s right to organize
7-Get big $$ out of Elections and politics in general
How’s THAT for definition? Does it describe YOU?
Well, those are all Green official positions! The “spineless Dems” can’t even muster up the vertebral fortitude to support ANY of those things you want. So, what the hell are you doing there supporting the DLC-run machine — to do more damage?
Why not let your REGISTRATIiON describe you as well. THAT way there is no mistaking those who HAVE real defined positions –and THAT helps all progressive candidates to make their case for what the People want. Why not help build a non-corporate politics of sanity and inclusion?
We cannot afford to wait any longer for the Democratic Party to “come around.” Oh, they CAN come around, of course. They came around to accepting preemptive war and illegal wiretapping.
Stop the denial already. That nostlgic image of the Democratic Party supporting Labor, Women and Minorities is just a bullet on a sales pamphlet for a new breed of Bait ‘n’ Switch politics which only ensures corporate control of our whole system — from news to politics to nutritiion to education to healthcare to warfare.
Sad. Sick, even. But this is how it works: it’s a one-two punch.
Neocons lead Republicans to take everything in sight into their control. DLC owned and operated Democrats are in charge of taking all of the outraged and pissed-off people and keeping them busy and politically neutered.
Thik about it. Have you seen one single progressive measure actively promoted by that Party in 40 years? One truly progressive (or antiwar) candidate given party support? Whom do they silence? Michael Moore, Murtha, Feingold, Dean, MoveOn…YOU!
Just knock on doors, make phone calls, send money. THAT is the role of “the base.”
This goes WAAAYY beyond “spinelessness” and even beyond “enabling.” THIS my friends, like it or not, is COLLUSION of the worst sorts. It has to stop. It is taking America down by offering False Promises instead of Leadership and Resistance in a time when we really ARE under attack — domestically.
Republicans lead us like lemmings right over the cliff of human and planetary lawless disaster. The Democrats hold hands, sing songs and instead lead our children over the same cliff, just a few years further down the road. Same cliff. WE need someone to say: “Walk Away from the EDGE! Go the other way! The road to recovery is paved with cooperation, love and respect, not hatred and blind certitude — certainly not hedge funds.”
If any of them come to their senses and want to stop the destruction of our Constitution, let THEM join and follow others like the Greens who actually KNOW where they want to be headed.
Attemps at trying to reform that Democratic beast or (chuckle) “hijack” the the Democratic Party have already failed miserably for decades. It is not going to miraculously work now. Enough of that BS. All it does is waste time and run out the clock without accomplishing anything, like setting a new People’s Agenda. Accomplishing THAT will fall to a new party that starts fresh with that People’s Agenda as its operating principle. That is today’s Green Party.
Correction from previous post.
For more info on the tactic and logic of switching to Green registration as a means to pressure Congress and put them on notice, go to:switch2green.org.
Wellstone died in a plane crash under mysterious circumstances. Many believe that he and his party were assssinated due to evidence of a strange local electrical disruption and a too rapid deployment of “authorities” at the crash scene. It is a difficult thing growing a spine when you and your family members might be targeted for an “accident”. There was also the deadly 2001 anthrax mailing attack that fully incapacitated the Democratic leadership of the Senate for five months, preventing any opposition to the four unconstitutional portions of the PATRIOT Act. Several negative mentions have been made about Kerry when that student was tazed. I saw three different videos of that. All included Kerry saying they were good questions and that he wanted to answer them. Kerry said later that he was unaware of the tazing in the back of the auditorium. Apparently, he was out of earshot and couldn’t get a view of what was being done unlike those with video equipment nearby. (I understand that the young man was given an intern investigator job by Greg Palast.) People stand by because they think that the authorities (guards) are doing their jobs. How does our society readjust to the fact that many police are being trained to attack citizens who challenge authority, even peacefully? Florida seems to be one of the places where that training has been concentrated using Homeland Security funds no less. Leading up to the 2003 Free Trade Conference, the Bush administration poured millions of dollars into training Miami police for riots. When all they got were peaceful protestors including retired union members, violence was done and people were arrested. It’s the mindset. Sort of like the time Secretary of Education Paige had a freudian slip calling members of the National Education Association “terrorists.” What do we do when facing the facts is too painful? We deny them.
I think as responsible citizens of the U.S. democracy we need to be realistic/pragmatic about the goals we set. While probably all of us involved in the commondreams message boards would like nothing more than to see Kucinich as president, Nader as vice, Cindy Sheehan as speaker of the house, and so forth. But if we are honest with ourselves at the current state of our body politic this scenario is about as likely as JC himself returning to usher in an era of world peace. So I think we should take what Daniel David is saying seriously, and consider which democrats we CAN strongly support rather than constantly bashing them for spinelessness, etc. Although it is sadly true that our democracy is already largely bought by corporations, it is just not the case that there is not a huge difference between republican and democratic governance. Let us work together for piece-meal change and put the dreams of pie in the sky overnight revolution behind us. I’m not suggesting that we give up our most cherised ideals and aspirations, but just that we be more realistic about the hard work and time needed to reach those goals.
Pacem in Terris.
Jeffrey Courion September 28th, 2007 12:59 pm - Great post. I have comments on these two bits:
** Humanity is complex — unless we are destined to be programmed in some way to align to a singular order — not that far out a notion. **
My response: I don’t think we are “destined to be programmed” (who would be the programmer????), but it seems probable to me that there may be aspects of our genetic (or maybe even some other) code that manifest in times of crisis. Sort of like a built in “species preservation” mechanism, which even as it occurs we remain and perhaps will remain unaware of. Who cares, if it exists, as longs as it works, is what matters — wouldn’t you say?
** ALSO, within the ranks of humanity — are fierce, loving forces who have strong backs and determined visions. They don’t crave power or headlines — they are everyday people — leading ordinary lives — and do extraordinary things. This needs to be the focus of the leadership we promote and support among us and from us. **
My response: I wholeheartedly appreciate this sentiment. The thing is in most situations those who have these attributes also have no desire to get involved in the sleazy, slimy, back-room, egocentric politics of today. This suggests to me that the time has come for a complete overhaul of our system of governance so that true leaders can emerge and real progress can be made for humanity.
Given all the ecological and societal crises that we are now in the midst of, is it not obvious that turmoil is only going to increase and “business as usual” will only exacerbate the problems? Thus, it seems to me the question is as follows: As a country, is the United States capable of implementing the revolutionary changes that are now called for or will citizens of the country remain observers of the fall into ever increasing chaos, dissolution, and decay?
As it is, the decay has already gone pretty far, and there will come a time when even if we wanted to implement revolutionary change for the better it will be too late to do it on anything but a local scale. Ironically though, this may be what is best anyhow. Ultimately the complete dismantlment of federal government in a sort of “secession by default” that occurs almost spontaneously in different localities at different times as a method of returning some order that is proper and respectful of life.
Cause lets be honest. What good has the federal government done for any of us lately? I can’t think of one thing, and every day i wonder if and when we will awake from this nightmare that doesn’t need to continue anymore.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
“Spineless IS better than evil. But spinelessness is characterized by silence and silence is complicity. Inaction is also complicity. The Kitty Genovese stabbing incident exposes how and why bystander apathy works. It is not true apathy but only (temporary) denial of an ugly, unpleasant truth (that a woman’s screams could possibly mean someone is being stabbed right below one’s window, in one’s own alley) and (temporary) confusion as to what to do about it. People are unprepared for such relatively unusual (and horrible) events”.
I have just started reading Naomi Klien’s new book ” The Shock Doctrine the Rise of DISASTER CAPITALISM”.
This is one of the subject she is writing about. How government use shock situations like 9/11 to implement radical new economic and political programs, while the general public is still in shock and cannot respond.
It is a natural human response to go to denial about a situation that the human mind is not ready to deal with, e.g. 9/11.
That is of course, when the Bush administration seized the opportunity to implement their plans for Iraq, under the guise of fighting terrorism..
I highly recommend Naomi Klein’s new book to everyone
Organize people. Your Constitution, the very foundation of America is under attack. Get from behind your computers. Trade in those card board signs for something more substantial and start the million patriot march. Its time folks, protect whats yours. America!
IMPEACH
IMPEACH
IMPEACH
Defend the Constitution: IMPEACH
Get behind (or start) and Impeachment movement in your region, and keep working at it. Make so much noise locally that our “representatives” feel that they have more to lose by NOT impeaching.
John Nichols of the Nation says we should keep on trying for impeachment right up until Jan. 20, 2009. It is our one chance to put things right constitutionally, and it is to that document, not to “the flag” that all officals take an oath to defend. It is up to us now to try, even as we work to build alternative politics.
Become so vocal and visible that local citizens get beyond the I-word taboo and have impeachment become a household word, seen and discussed everywhere. Break the chain of fear and helplessness.
1. Get friends and neighbors to see this is a seminal patriotic democracy issue of saving the Constitution and country like in 1776. (So they can justify it to themselves and their peers, and they can identify with old, deep symbols of America)
2. Let them feel that more and more people are “getting it”, that this is a growing popular movement to prevent an autocratic police state from taking root in our country. (be part of an awakened and patriotic, but abused majority of determined Americans)
This is the formula for success.
All our actions have to go to building those two scenarios. Even more than directly contacting representatives (which must still be done, and incessantly), we have to work on creating an overwhelming public tide of civic, street, and internet fervor that breaks the media barrier, which THEN makes all those earlier (and continuing) appeals to representatives take on new urgent vigor when they see on which side their bread is buttered.
Suddenly all those old messages (which they have ignored, but kept) become their justification for action. It just takes one special moment, one dynamic public speech or act by a respected figure, which justifies the urgency of Impeachment for saving America, and they will go for it.
We do this with public displays, introducing impeachment resolutions at the city, county and state level (wherevwer we can find at least a few supporters on the inside), and constant badgering of our Federal elected officials. Force any and all candidates to make statements on defending our Constitution by impeachment.
THAT, to me, is the Game Plan.
Spinelessness enables evil.
It is worse than evil because it knows better, but it accepts it. Spinelessness is abdication of responsibility.
The conversation that ensued was better than Crowley’s article. I have nothing to add other than to thank the following for adding such illuminating content to this discussion: ANNEY, DICTENFREUND, JEFFREY COURIORN, PETER C SCHMID, LOBO GRIS, OREGON CHARLES, RICH M, CRUX PUPPY and KEN HAUSLE (in my humble view, this was your best posting to date)!
alank: Respectfully, I disagree. I love that warm fuzzy feeling that democracy in action gives you. Been there, done that for years! Before congress will listen, you must get thier attention. Get from behind your safe computer, organize, put down those cardboard signs and pick-up something substantial and start the million patriot march. That will get thier attention and protect the Constitution for future generations!
Absolutely nothing will change until we have taxpayer-funded elections instead of corporate election funding. We all know that, don’t we? And does anybody believe Congress would vote to end its corporate campaign funding? Citizens should have control of some Congressional doings and benefits, like salaries, expense accounts, pensions, and campaign spending, etc.
Well, I know what I’d do in the best of all possible worlds. No corporate funding at all. No more 527 groups, which have helped and harmed candidates (i.e., Move-On & Swiftboaters). Unfortunately, you can’t ban the liars without banning the truth-tellers.
To level the playing field, every candidate for national office would receive a predetermined amount of taxpayer money which may be used for campaigning. Candidates would not be able to use any other money for campaigning, and their expenditures would be published. Criminal charges would be filed against those who violated the limits. The amount of taxpayer money would depend on the number of voters in that candidate’s potential district — House, Senate, or Presidential. The more voters, the more money.
Campaigning would take on a whole new focus — how to publish the candidates’ position on issues and reach as many voters as possible with the amount of money available. Corporations no longer at the financial helm.
Lobbying, I’m torn about, but eventually I think I’d come down on the side of allowing it, since no corporate money would go into the campaign coffers. Constituents need to have access to their representatives, and that would include businesses. I’d also change the meaning of “lobbyist” to include non-corporate groups of citizens with particular concerns, such as pollution or the environment or voting rights, etc.
There are other scenarios for the best way to structure taxpayer funding of elections, but to be honest, I don’t think Congress would touch it with a 10-foot pole no matter how it was structured.
RE Congress:
We pretend to elect them, and they pretend to represent us.
RE campaign finace reform:
Eliminating money differentials in elections would flip the pancake of democracy, I agree.
But getting the spatula under the pancake, in order to flip it, is the trick.
You’d almost certainly have to amend the US Constitution to structurally resolve 1st Amendment/Free Speech definitions that currently equate spending money with exercizing free speech — best summarized under US Supreme Court decision Buckley vs Vallejo.
Then, you’d need a statutory process that somehow equalized money’s influence among pre-nomination contenders in Primary Elections — currently open to anyone who simply pays a filing fee. (theoretically doable, but lots of daunting legal and logistical problems, here.)
Then, you’d need a statutory equalization formula for the nominees’ campaign spending amounts (somewhat easier to do, maybe.)
But you can’t do any of the statutory stuff until the Constitution is first amended to define federal elections as being outside the free speech generalities of the 1st Amendment.
NOTE: Constitutional amendments take a super-majority of both House and Sentate, PLUS 3/4 of state legislatures, to pass.
In order to get the Constitution amended in this way, you’d need a new Congress of super-enlightened, honest people who believe in democracy.
Possibly complicating IRONY: If there were enough honest people in politics to reform the system this way, many citizens would say the huge work of reform isn’t (therefore) needed any more.
I agree we should keep trying to limit Money in politics, but doing this in the US is almost as hard as doing the back stroke in a swimming pool filled with MAYONNAISE.
I.e.: Technically possible, but almost requiring Divine Intervention (from a god that allows millions to die in earthquakes, concentration camps, etc….?)
Lobo Gris (9/29 12:15a) doesn’t get it that it’s okay for the Dems to lose if they “deserve” to lose. When the Dems lose, every individual loses, even Lobo Gris.
johncpt (9/29 1:44a) may have been the smartest guy in the room.
I think that losing would be the absolute best thing that ever happened to the Democrats. Nobody anticipates now that things would be any different with Democrats in 2008 than it has been with Republicans. We already have proof of that. It’s time politicians learned to respect the voters and their promises to the voters. And that respect may be born only at the cost of an election.
You must not be aware of the anger of those of us who placed our hopes on the Democrats in 2006 and elected them as a majority in both houses. The hope was not for some cosmetic political reason, but for the survival of our country, the Bill of Rights, the Geneva Conventions, what has made America great.
They didn’t even try, as somebody said above.
Letter Sent to the New York Times
From: John Walsh
Date: September 16, 2007 9:49:05 AM EDT
To: letters@nytimes.com
Subject: Frank Rich’s column
To the editor:
In an otherwise excellent column today (9/16/2007) Frank Rich perpetuates the myth that the Democrats do not have the power to end the war because of an inevitable veto from Bush.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The war demands funding, and a new supplemental funding will soon appear before Congress. That can be filibustered in the Senate, with only the 41 votes or abstentions required to sustain a filibuster. At that moment the legislation is dead. There is nothing to veto so Bush must come back with an acceptable bill. At the same time the Democrats could submit legislation to bring the occupying troops home quickly and safely. Let Bush veto that if he dares. There is already a national petition drive for this at FilibusterForPeace.org and every Senator has received a copy of it.
In the House one person Nancy Pelosi can accomplish the same thing. She can simply refuse to bring Bush’s supplemental requests to the floor. In this she has veto power as surely as the president does.
So let us not hear from the Democrats that they do not have the power to end the war. Clearly they do. One must conclude that the Democrats support it. They pay for it and so they own it.
Sincerely,
John V. Walsh, MD
Professor of Physiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
john.walsh@umassmed.edu
Yeah and if you want to learn more about the democrats go back to when they started — Jackson and Van Buren i think it was. “Swept the Nation”.
When Jackson got in the “white house” he was supposedly “a man of the People”, but this man didn’t even know what it meant to be “People”. You know, like the People who were here before the Europeans arrived. This speaks to the underlying foundation of the democrats, and i think it is high time they got their due.
Plus Jackson, Houston, and this sick fella named “Clay” as well as some few other fellas and ladies were all mixed up in the mix. It all happened around the 1830’s and i think that this is the time we need to revisit, and maybe we can get back to something of hope…..
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Now mind you, i so do not mean “pretend we are somewhere else and forget about what has happened”. No, what i mean is we need to go back to a place and time of foundation because this country of the US of formerly A (my sentiment) is so so on slippery ice that is melting faster every day. Melting away.
Peace,
Ken Hausle
anney,
Punishing the Democrats with defeat in 2008 just advances the cause of the Republicans and gives Rush Limbaugh a podium from which to boast that he told us so. Mad or not, we’re going to have to live with the results, and you’re not gonna like ‘em.
Ken Hausle -
Does you gooey, probably drunken, fatuous babble ever, ever end?
Can you never hazzard some specific suggestions as to HOW?
Will you ever risk offering a realistic analysis that’s not coated in petrified sugar?
Try.
Sweetly,
alembic two
#
Daniel David September 29th, 2007 9:22 pm
“anney,
Punishing the Democrats with defeat in 2008 just advances the cause of the Republicans and gives Rush Limbaugh a podium from which to boast that he told us so. Mad or not, we’re going to have to live with the results, and you’re not gonna like ‘em.”
Mabe the Democrats should do something to merit our support rather than just demanding it because they are the lesser of two evils.
Lobo Gris
alembic two - you don’t sound too sweet to me.
I don’t know how long you have been around but in previous discussions many solutions have been put forth for various issues political and otherwise. However, if you are looking for “business as usual” type solutions that are easily palatable, then good luck cause you ain’t gonna find em.
But i will give you this. Two common themes running through many of my posts are: diminishment of the federal government and implementation of appropriate technology.
Ken Hausle
Charlotte, NC
First, nobody has to advance the cause of the Republicans by voting for them in 2008 — the Democrats have already done that, and THESE are the results nobody likes. A Democratic election loss in 2008 because the Democrats voted to support the Bush agenda since 2006 would not be a “punishment” but a consequence of their submission to the Bush agenda. Why try to change things again since the 2006 change made no difference anyway?
Second, why on earth are you more concerned about what Rush Limbaugh says than the outrage of Democratic supporters who will not vote for Democrats again? I certainly won’t. And am I outraged? Yes, even more than at the Republicans. You see, the Republicans didn’t promise to change things if they won in 2006.
Face it, the Democrats have lost a huge portion of their base by supporting Bush’s warmongering and vandalism of the Constitution. I wrote letter after letter, begging the Democrats to put impeachment back on the table, stop Bush’s illegal warmongering and spying on Americans, and even