Subscribe to Common Dreams News Updates
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
Pro-Mosque Mom Who Lost Pregnant Daughter In Trade Center: 9/11 Families 'Not Monolithic'
As plans to build an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero in New York City become political fodder for the fall elections on a national scale, it's become shorthand to imply that all 9/11 families oppose the erection of the mosque two blocks from the site where terrorists downed the World Trade Center nearly nine years ago.
But in fact, no cohesive position has emerged from the thousands of 9/11 families who have been politically influential on many issues in the past. One group which has opposed war has come out strongly in favor of the mosque project, known as Cordoba House. Others have avoided even addressing the issue.
"There is no simple, singular 9/11 group who really should or could speak for all 9/11 family members," said Donna Marsh O'Connor of September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a coalition of more than 250 families which recently endorsed the mosque. Since the endorsement, the membership numbers have grown, she said.
O'Connor told TPM in an interview that it's unfair for groups like Debra Burlingame's 9/11 Families for a Safe and Strong America to act as if they are representing everyone who lost loved ones in the attacks. O'Connor's 29-year-old daughter Vanessa, pregnant at the time, was killed working on the 93rd floor of one of the twin towers.
"This is not a small issue, this is what America has always been -- a place where people come to escape religious persecution," O'Connor
(pictured at left) said. "I can understand people saying that this is a
slap. This does hurt. But we don't change fundamentally what our nation
is about because it will hurt people."
"We're a family who is forever changed, certainly forever scarred, but we're not the victims of 9/11. Our daughter was the victim of 9/11 and we don't want to see our nation fold," she said.
There are multiple groups of families of the victims of the attacks with varying prominence on the national scene. TPMDC has put out interview requests to several and spent time scanning their Web sites.
As Josh noted last night, Burlingame has gotten the lion's share of the attention, in part because she's affiliated with Liz Cheney. Peter Gadiel's organization 9/11 Families for a Secure America also opposes the Islamic center. But, former TPMer Justin Elliott noted over at Salon that few of the people who originated the fight were actually affiliated with the 9/11 families.
Despite there being no unified voice, a meme has emerged that the families of the victims of 9/11 are unified in being hurt by the plans. In this piece, a rabbi speaks broadly about 9/11 families:
First, a pastoral voice. To some of those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks, Cordoba House is a slap in the face that generates anger and disgust. In their mind, Muslims perpetrated 9/11, and now Muslims are building a shrine at Ground Zero.These 9/11 families understand intellectually that the progressive American Muslims advocating for Cordoba House have no connection, theologically or personally, to the terror-thirsty, militant strand of Islam associated with the 9/11 attackers. Yet, for them, these two diametrically opposed groups are still connected in some way. In an honest moment, most Americans would admit that we share this feeling that all Muslims are connected.
Of note in delving into the 9/11 families reaction to the Islamic center is the lack of press attention to the failure last month of a measure that would have provided for $7.4 billion in health care funding for emergency responders and others who were sickened by the World Trade Center dust. Just 12 Republicans joined Democrats in voting for the measure, which needed a two-thirds majority to pass.
Rep. Anthony Weiner threw a fit on the House floor last month over this very issue, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) noted the lack of Republican support noted the same in his statement today that developers should just move the project. But for all the political griping over the mosque, you'd think there would be more fuss made over sick firefighters who need medical attention.
40 Comments so far
Show AllWhy don't they poll the number of 911 families to ask how many of them doubt the BIG LIE of a story told by the US government about 911? And that Muslims had NOTHING to do with the whole thing!
Muslims did indeed have nothing to do with those who comandered and flew those planes into the buildings - anymore than Christians or residents of Buffalo has anything to do with Tim McVey.
We just flew two rocket ships to Mars.
They landed on each side of the planet, and they opened up and these two rovers rolled out.
We've been driving them around (one of them is stuck in the sand for the past year) the surface of Mars for six years....BY REMOTE CONTROL...
Mars, at its closet distance to earth is 54.6 million km away?
...54.6 million km away for six years...by REMOTE CONTROL !!!
Those planes were indeed hijacked.....by radio frequency...........
The hundreds, to thousands, of engineers, technicians and managers in the JPL, and the contractors who designed, built, launching and operating the Mars rovers weren't then asked to use it to kill 3000 of their fellow countrymen, then remain completely silent, forever, about it.
I never specifically said JPL did it, I should have said OBL did not do it. My point was, perhaps you did not get it, if you can drive a dune buggy on another planet for six years by remote control, you certainly can hijack a boeing here on earth by remote control. The question is not: is that a real possibility...it is absolutely a real possibility and more than likely the explaination especially since these guys could not even fly cessnas.
Orwell, your comments do not make sense.
Firstly, my understanding is that some of the the purported hijackers did have some flight training and others probably received instruction from them. And flight simulators are easily available to anyone. As a pilot, I can assure you that maneuvering a plane in the air in good visibility is extraordinarily easy. I could teach my 16 year old son to do it in 10 minutes, especially since he's already had some simulator time. Most of the hijackers probably would have been unable to LAND a Cessna or maybe even to take off, or fly under instruments, but I have no doubt they could have easily learned to control a plane in flight. They didn't need to be able to take off, because the real pilots did that, and they didn't need to know how to land, because nobody did that. And by the way, the fact that the planes were maneuvered in ways not normal for that type of plane, is further evidence that amateurs were at the controls.
Secondly, the reason the rovers on Mars can be remote controlled, is because that is specifically what they were designed for. Much of the equipment they carry is specific to that purpose. Commercial aircraft are not designed to be remote controlled.
This is not to say that there are not aspects of the official story that are cause for suspicion, but it is far more believable than this remote control scenario. Wild speculation like this only wastes everybody's time.
The following is obvious to me:
9/11 gave conservatives huge power.
If indeed it was NOT a set-up, then a thorough hearing would have increased their power. And you know how the Bush Administration loved power.
However, if it was a set-up, then a thorough hearing would have exposed them.
There was no thorough hearing.
Why?
You know why... as does everyone who has cared to look closely.
Just one more observation that cinches it--inside job. For me, it was watching Bush on camera receiving the information of the second tower being struck. That was a man receiving an update on how things were going, not receiving the shocking and incomprehensible news of the nation under attack. His reaction condemns him, he knew something was going down that day, HE KNEW!!! Which is why Cheney couldn't let him appear before congress alone.
You know, even if you were to, for the sake of argument, accept the official mythology enshrined in that best selling work of fiction: The 9/11 Commission Report as being....what really happened...as silly as that might be..............................that would mean, at the very least, that exactly the same time as when American was under attack and American citizens were jumping out of 100 story windows, President Bush was sitting there reading about a pet goat, for a good seven or eight minutes, the majority of which was after he was told of the second attack when Andrew Card whispered in his ear.
Think about that?
Think about what they would be saying if say Obama had done that? Or how about Clinton? But these scum sucking hypocites are ready to never even learn about or understand this simple undisputable fact.
I could not believe the hypocrosy of those who wave the flag and call themselves patriots and Americans, then vote against the truest American heroes of them all, those that gave their lives and health by saving lives of 9/ll victims. I felt ashamed of our country and at being a part of those that represent us in DC. How cowardly and ignorant of them to turn the bill into a political tool. What happened on 9/11 will keep the country and those that have perished as 'victims' if we don't rise above the hatred and narrow-mindedness of those against building the mosque. That was the intention of the hijackers, to divide us and build hatred. To keep the memory of those that lost their lives during and since, the mosque must be built and celebrated. Possibly, it would be good if there was an initial service celebrating all life and the freedoms we have in America. Those that are the true 'victims' are those that are holding onto their anger and intolerance. I doubt if their loved ones would approve of being remembered this way. Only love and courage will conquer darkness and hatred, IMHO. And, voting out those who stand in the way of the same.
I couldn't agree more. Hatred has never healed a wound. It only deepens wounds. Will this country ever understand that? I hope so, but seriously doubt it.
I wrote the following on September 11, 2004.
--------------------------------------------
9/11
I was awakened by the call of a friend.
I turned on the TV, watched the towers fall,
Over and over again. A looped nightmare.
Of heroism and confusion.
My wife came home to find me in tears.
A retired fireman, all my mind’s eye could see,
Was a line of men climbing the stairs
As the towers came tumbling down.
All races, all creeds, strove side by side
In the poisoned atmosphere and smoke,
To save whom they could, a pitiful few,
And remove the remains of the rest.
The entire world extended its arms,
To hold us in our grief,
And help in any way they could
True “brothers in adversity.”
The White House boiled with rage
And screamed for vengeance and blood,
But the families of the victims asked,
“Don’t shed more innocent blood.”
But first of all the Afghan peasants
Died in thousands before our might,
While the erstwhile target of our wrath
Safely remained in flight.
That done, the sights were set
On the real target of our greed.
Control of Iraqi oil, no matter the cost,
Was Bush and Company’s need.
So a case was built, a tissue of lies,
To take away our freedoms,
Make us servants of the State,
“It’s the Iraqi’s we must hate!”
And so Bush lied and many thousands died,
And his cronies? They got rich!
And we became the object of hate,
A giant run amok.
The war goes on, as do the lies
And the growth of neo-fascist power.
A condition that none of us imagined
As we watched the fall of the towers.
A nation in poverty, with a few, filthy rich,
A nation in fear, secret police everywhere,
Citizens can be “disappeared”at will
Ballots suborned, politicians in pocket.
We the People must make a stand
Take back our country, our honor,
Or we too shall find ourselves cast
On the dustbin of history, in a river of blood.
Steve Osborn
11 September 2004
------------------------------------------
I haven't changed my mind.
I just wish people would not refer to the proposed building as a mosque. From what I understand it is an Islamic center for various activities but one that will include a place to offer prayers.
Secondly, even if the 9/11 perpetrators were Muslims, no decent Muslim would argue that they were true to the principles of their faith. Further, should all 1.5 billion Muslims be tainted by 9/11 forever? Conversely, if the U.S. attacked a Muslim nation (Iraq) that posed it no threat, should the world's Muslims hold every U.S. citizen accountable considering the invasion was paid for with taxes of the American people?...Or, come to think of it, should Muslims also hold the Chinese responsible since they, to a substantial degree, are keeping the U.S. government afloat?
My eyes boil at the presumption that Park51(?) must somehow justify its existence, prospectively. An inherent spark of the dream that people could govern themselves was the idea of multiple independent religions, sharing a patriotic vow of mutual tolerance and deference with each other.
To proceed on the basis that "some" be applied to mean "all" flies in the face of that hope. Unfortunately, that vow has been honored in the breach far too many times in our history.
We need not compromise our values, by governmental force, to assert them.
Mosque in Shadow of Twin Towers
There are many means by which promoters of the mosque near the 9/11 site could rectify that horrific act. Nothing could be worse than this shrine which would canonize the 9/11 terrorists as martyrs in the eyes of many reactionaries--thus catalyzing more such acts.
Predictably, this project has already generated backlash and unrest among our citizenry, which could lead to violence--and even riots if it were to proceed.
If the families, who were robbed of their loved ones by these homicidal conspirators, approve this project---then let it proceed.
The horrible events of 9/11 were done by a group of terrorist, not a Religion. This is no different than the Romans feeding Christians to the Lions. Who cares how people worship their God ? There are so many differant Religions it is down right silly anymore, to even believe in any man made interpertation of creation, and the whys, and whats of the universe. N.Y.C. is a very busy place, and two blocks from anywhere in Manhatten, is a completely different location. People want to Bitch about everything without any facts, it's really getting old how stupid we have been behaving.This country was born on Religious freedoms ,so what is the problem ? Personally I think they (religion) are all stupid created by ego maniac men who seek power, and what better way to get it than to claim to have the answers to all eternity ! Good for that lady and her wisdom !!
Innocent muslims died that day. You Americans who oppose this center are heartless, ignorant savages and God protect this country from the likes of you. Sorry to resort to name calling, but Christians don't get to be the only people who lost loved ones on 9/11, and they don't get to be the only ones who grieve.
I dont like the Patriot acts, they shoved them down our throats while in a purely emotional state of fear, the constitution was ignored and bypassed by those seeking to build a stazi spy network.
As a result, we have spent 100s of billions on the spy network infrastructure , organized religious community watch gang stalking is out of control,google it, 2000 private company's and 800000 analysts earning 80000/year each ,have invaded privacy's, collected data on us across the country .
What the hell are we doing.
And we sit here , and wonder, how are we going to stop these unconstitutional private contractors, oh, what if those who signed oaths to protect the constitutional rights of Americans had horned their promise,instead of convince us that fear required them to take unconstitutional action.
What if we had said no, to the Patriot acts and not given into fear, and protected the constitution, would we have not gained courage and honor from our steadfast convictions.
I say, if its constitutional law to protect freedom of religion , then the Mosque must be built, and by doing so, in time , we will realize that is the constitutionally correct action to take.For it gives us all strength when we protect constitutional rights. It removes fear, when you know , the risk we take by allowing the constitution to protect our rights is more important then all the good feelings or bad feelings, or fear that might consume us.
Protection of the constitution and our rights builds us as nation, not divides. Or why bother having a constitution, lets all join gang stalking networks, and start screwing each other out of everything.
And while we are at it, end the Patriot acts, remove immunity from those who have spyed on Americans and caused damages, and let the redress of grievances begin..... Especially against the leaders of gang stalking torture networks.
Either that , or start shutting down all churches , synagogues, that might offend other people in neighborhoods, all around America.
It wont stop with Mosques, and I dont want to hear this argument about sensitivity and feelings, either we have a constitution, and we protect what it does for Americans, or we can all sit around and cry , and watch the elite play us like puppets, spy on us, keep us in fear, and ruin our country.
We need allies in the Muslim Community, lord knows, two wars in the middle east has created more than enough enemies.
I continue to wonder why those who preach hate, war, fear, homophobia, who pull back unemployment benefits from those who are desperate and cannot find work, who vote against health coverage for first responders at ground zero, and on and on, are the ones we always hear from.
I heard Anthony Weiner's meldown on the radio a few weeks ago but do you think it was on network news or in my local major newspaper? Nooooooo. But I bet the crack head Debra Burlingame will have quite an audience and will be quoted far and wide. I just don't get it.
All 9/11 families ought to read a most interesting document.
It is very well researched and referenced (over 400 verified footnotes). The articles are lengthy, some parts not easy to follow and to digest and they need to be read with an open mind.
The implications will challenge how we look at politics, economy, history, finance, war and terrorism. Many persons in the documents are well known; many are right now in pivotal positions of politics and finance. These people do shape OUR life and that of our children right now. The details are stunning. The consequences are BEYOND BELIEF.
You will get a picture, which will be extremely hard to swallow, and very painful to digest: “Collateral Damage” by E. P Heidner, part I and II.
>>> www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner <<<
This would be really very funny if it was not so sick.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/investing/news-corp-the-saudi-prince-and-the-ground-zero-mosque/19593554/#
With every hateful bigot in the USSA crawling out from under every rock to denounce the Ground Zero mosque (as if there were even a shred of hard evidence that Muslims actually did it....but that's another story)....................leading the charge is.......who else.........FOX NEWS, and all the right wing wind bags, Hannity, O'Reilly, and all the usual propagandists....
Meanwhile the second largest investor, after Rupert Murdoch and his family, in the media conglomerate News Corp. (NWS), which owns FOX NEWS, is Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the nephew of Saudi Arabian King Abdullah, and one of the world's richest men.
Through his Kingdom Holding Co., Alwaleed owns about 7% of News Corp., or about $3 billion of the media giant. He also owns 6% of Citigroup -- to which he was introduced by the Carlyle Group -- or about $10 billion of the giant bank. He's a part-owner of the famed Plaza Hotel in New York and has invested in many other prominent companies. Earlier this year, News Corp. invested $70 million for a 9% stake in Alwaleed's Middle Eastern media and entertainment company, Rotana, which "owns the Arab world's largest record label and about 40% of the region's movies -- most of which are Egyptian -- and operates 11 free-to-air television channels, two of which are through a partnership with News Corp.," according to Reuters. (Rotana broadcasts Fox movies and TV shows throughout the Middle East.) News Corp. has an option to double its stake in Rotana for another $70 million within 18 months.
Fox News readers/viewers are such dumb suckers.
Meanwhile, if you do not quite understand my comment about the lack of even a shred of hard evidence that Muslims actually did it, I suggest strongly that you read:
Was America Attacked by Muslims on 9/11?
By David Ray Griffin
http://davidraygriffin.com/articles/was-america-attacked-by-muslims-on-911/
If I hear "hallowed ground" one more time, I'm going to throw up. I do not mean to offend people who lost friends and family, and certainly NOT the people who rushed in to help and are NOT getting any health care now!
The real hallowed ground is the entire EARTH. Do we Americans really care about hallowed ground?
Probably not, as used car lots and pizza parlors and homes are taking over The fields of the battle of Gettysburg. That sounds like some kind of hallowed ground as so many died there, but hey "hallowed" is only good for so long, you know.
What was that Dec. 7th, 1941, " a date that will live in infamy." Who remembers that? Yeah, but I think that Aug. 6th and 9th are the real infamy.
In spite of the fact that the plane pilots were from Saudi Arabia, Bush didn't bomb that country, did he? FILMFLAM, FILMFLAM, what a waste of time energy and supidity this whole uproar is! It's a commmunity center, and blocks away. You know, COMMUNITY center, something that the U.S. is lacking a lot of!
if you really think about the age of the earth and all the battles, starvations, and horrors, then you have to see the whole earth as one big graveyard. And when I see wikileaks, I see one big military freak show of killing, and why can't we think of the people as Afghanistan as living on hallowed ground too, or the polluted water and land of Iraq, you know IRAQ, the birthplace of EVERYBODY'S civilization?
Everything turns into political flimflam, and when buildings and monumnets become more important than HUMAN BEINGS, then as T.S. Eliot said,,,"We are the hollow men.." and there is nothing HALLOWED about that!
"In spite of the fact that the plane pilots were from Saudi Arabia"
What shread of evidence do you think you have to back up that most baseless assumption?
Dear Orwell:
I guess I believe that because the pilots that were identified as flying the planes, and taking the flying lessons were from Saudi Arabia. If they weren't, where were they from? I never believed that Suddam did it, in spite of the Bush/Cheney spin.
However, I didn't want to attack Saudi Arabia either, because I don't hold countries responsible for the acts of PRIVATE citizens.
If you know who did fly the planes, then please tell me as i will be happy to listen to any ideas.
Hello Stardust,
How can a pilot who could not fly a Cessna, jump in the cockpit of a Boeing 575 and fly it like a fighter jet? The official story is so absurd.
“The speed, the maneuverability, the way he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.”
--- Danielle O’Brien, Air Traffic Controller, Dulles International Airport. ABC News, October 24, 2001
“Radar shows that Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two and a half minutes.”
--- CBS News, September 12, 2001
…just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. . . . Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm.
--- Marc Fisher and Don Phillips, "On Flight 77: "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked,'" The Washington Post, September 12, 2001.
“Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, [a] former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot. I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. ’He could not fly at all.’“
--- The New York Times, May 4, 2002, A Trainee Noted for Incompetence, quoting a former employee of Pan Am International Flight Academy, Phoenix, Arizona.
“Months before Hani Hanjour is believed to have flown an American Airlines jet into the Pentagon, managers at an Arizona flight school reported him at least five times to the FAA. They reported him not because they feared he was a terrorist, but because his English and flying skills were so bad.... [T]hey didn't think he should keep his pilot's license. "I couldn't believe he had a commercial license of any kind with the skills that he had," said Peggy Chevrette, Arizona flight school manager.”
--- CBS News, May 10, 2002
“At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md. …alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour … had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane. However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft-spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons. In the spring of 2000, Hanjour had asked to enroll in the CRM Airline Training Center in Scottsdale, Ariz., for advanced training, said the center's attorney, Gerald Chilton Jr. Hanjour had attended the school for three months in late 1996 and again in December 1997 but never finished coursework for a license to fly a single-engine aircraft, Chilton said. When Hanjour reapplied to the center last year, "We declined to provide training to him because we didn't think he was a good enough student when he was there in 1996 and 1997," Chilton said.”
--- Newsday, September 23, 2001
"I guess I believe that because the pilots that were identified as flying the planes, and taking the flying lessons were from Saudi Arabia."
Stardust, ....before you learn something about 9/11, you have to unlearn everything you think you know....because it's all wrong.
You say "because the pilots that were identified as flying the planes"............but where did you hear all that? ...from the same liers who told you there were WMD in Iraq? Why would you possibly believe anything they say about anything?
If you want to learn what was really going on down in the flight schools in Florida where the "terraists" (mis-spelling is deliberate) trained....you need to read a book called: WELCOME TO TERRORLAND: Mohammed Atta and the 9/11 Coverup In Florida by Daniel Hopsicker. (TheMadCowMorningNews, www.madcowprod.com)
You might learn that "less than three weeks after Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi began flying lessons on July 6, 2000, a Lear jet belonging to the true owner of Huffman Aviation, financier Wallace J. Hilliard, 70, of Naples, Florida, was seized by Federal Agents at the Orlando Executive Airport after they discovered 43-pounds of heroin onboard."
Did you ever hear about that? Didn't think so...
"A story in the August 2, 2000 Orlando Sentinel called the bust "the largest find of its kind in the southeastern United States in recent years."
This is but one of a great many astonishing facts that all weave together to paint a very very different picture from the one that you have been told.
This is one of the most astonishing piece of true investigative journalism I have ever read. And the most amazing thing is that anybody in the mainstream media could have spent two years down in florida following 9/11 knocking on doors and snooping around and asking alot of questions....except they didn't. But this guy did. And its all documented.
I suggest you go read the reviews of this book on Amazon.
Dear yachtie and Orwell:
Wow, I didn't know all of that. 10 years ago is such a long time, and I guess, in my memory, seeing the planes crash into buildings and watching those buildings turn to dust is what I have in my mind. I also remember the GW news footage of seeing a person come into a school room and whispering to him, and then remembering the weird look and then a blank nothing on GW's face. Then I remember hearing a news person say that GW was "down the rabbit hole." It all didn't seem very real at all.
However, I did read the David Griffin things that you suggested, and he did have questions and ideas that really do deserve to be looked at, and I will read the yachtie suggestions too. I also guess that 10 years ago, I did trust the media a lot more, although GW always seemed to me to be a scary person. I did accept the story that men from Saudi Arabia did fly the planes, but I never blamed a whole religion for that, which is why I did freak out when GW was going to bomb Iraq, because that just seemed crazy and insane and nothing to do with anything.
When that whole "shock and awe" commercial came out, was when I really stopped believing a lot of things.I am really getting tired of governments talking about war and freedom, and that recent TIME cover really ticked me off too There are enough strange people of many religions in my own country , and lost or purposely hidden history that is now coming forward, like Eisenhower, the CIA and Iran, so that it is becoming harder and harder to trust very many sources at all.
Thank you to all the posters that had different and new viewpoints, because that is why I read commondreams in the first place.
It's a long and cumbersome read but I refer again (see my earlier comment) to:
www.scribd.com/people/documents/2169400-ep-heidner
Yes, Pearl Harbor Day is more and more irrelevant, many young people not even aware of when it was. The Anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima however will be remembered long after the United States empire has fallen. It is obvious to everyone on this planet, who are not Americans, that the United States is hands down the biggest exporter of terrorism on this planet, and any attempt by our media to pass the crown to someone else is just false modesty. I trust in karma to bring it home to roost.
Good for Donna O'Conner! She understands what the First Amendment to our Constitution is all about!
That having been said, the next question that those who are so up in the air about a "community center and place of worship being built 2 blocks away from "Grund Zero" (in actual distance, it's closer to 4 or 5 blocks away, distance-wise) is this: Were those who attacked the WTC I and WTC II really responsible for the attacks on them and ther Pentagon, or were they "patsies" for someone else? Is it just possible that those 9/11 attacks could have been "false flag" attacks.
It's well past time for a real investigation of those attacks to take place where real witnesses and experts be subpoenaed to testify under oath about ALL of the issues that apply to the 9/11 attacks.
After watching "From Freedom to Fascism", one realizes that the constitution was taken away from the American People long time ago.....The same White Christians who financed the Communist takeover of The Soviet Union and the rise to power of Hitler, yes, The Rockefellers, Morgans, Rothschilds, Bushes etc., also financed the takeover of the U.S. Government....
What Constitution? "He who controls the money controls the government."
Part of the master plan of 9/11 was to disable NORAD's Defense System so that 4 hijacked planes could not be intercepted.......No man in a cave was able to plan 5 practice exercises for NORAD that would prevent the interception of those 4 hijacked planes. Did anyone ever ask Dick Cheney, under oath, how he managed to come up with that idea and who were his advisers? When you have control of the investigation and those responsible for oversight(Congress), you can get away with the murder of almost 3,000 people.
It is not Christians versus Muslims or Jews.......It is "The White Power Elite" maintaining control of the masses through "FEAR"!
Watch "From Freedom to Fascism"!
I saw from Freedom to Fascism a long time ago and would recommend it to anyone that has not watched it.
The xenophobic fascists, Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Foxy News and the rest of the Muslim haters all call ground zero " HALLOWED GROUND " which it is, but they are an insult to the people who died there as they are using these dead people which includes Muslims, for there own ends in order to demonize Muslims. It gives Newt the Grinch, Palin and the rest of their ilk a way to pander to their racist base. Okay Muslim haters, you want to talk about HALLOWED GROUND.... from the Native Americans perspective, the Christians built many,many churches on THEIR HALLOWED GROUND from sea to shining sea. But that was okay since their religion was labeled heathen, so now that is what they want to do, is label the Muslim religion heathen.
We must not allow right wing extremists to further steal our language. Anyone can notice that they insert their own gnostic meaning into words (with a wink-wink here and a wink-wink there) and use them in a way which is utterly antagonistic to traditional American values. It is an abomination.
America is a mountain of racial and religious bigotry that periodically erupts spewing hatred throughout the land directed against their ex-slaves and foreigners depending on the circumstance. An ignorant population easily worked up into lock step hysteria villifying anything and everyone that do not fall in line. I have seen this scenario played out so many times I have stopped counting.
At the Muezzin's call for prayer
The kneeling faithful thronged the square;
Amid a monastery's weeds,
An old Franciscan told his beads,
While on Pushkara's lofty height
A dark priest chanted Brahma's might,
While to the synagogue there came
A Jew to praise Jehovah's Name.
The One Great God looked down and smiled
And counted each his loving child;
For Turk and Brahmin, monk and Jew
Had reached Him through the gods they knew.
Carl H. Claudy
This is such a tough one. On one hand we have the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion, on the other hand we have nearly 3000 family's who lost loved ones in the twin towers. My feeling is, no one is telling them ( the Muslims) that they can't practice their religion, they just don't want the symbol of Radical Islam, who caused so many deaths of innocents, to be overlooking the sight. The President is right, they should be allowed to build on private property, and practice their religion, but this is where the law of the land and emotions of the populace clash. It just seems to me, that in a gesture of good will, they would step down and build some place else.
Dear stargazer:
And on the THIRD hand, we go back to history where the South didn't want integration, and grown ups were screaming at little childrem and throwing things at them and governors were screaming NO, and the EMOTIONS were HIGH,...but the LAW of the land, said....LAWS trump emotions.." then the national guard came out and life really did improve, although I'm sure plenty of emotions didn't.
Hmmmm, good thing people didn't just listen to emotions. Oh, and as the article says, plenty of people who lost familiy and friends are NOT against this. Besides, the COMMUNITY center is not overlooking WTC;it's blocks away in the old Burlington coat factory space.
You know, emotions were really high with Prohibition too....but then, they had to repeal that one. If you really want to give up on the Bill of Rights, don't expect emotions to make a better country. Once upon a time men said that women didn't have the "skills" to vote. Fortunately, in the tough living state of Wyoming, men and women, due to surviving the elements together, were found to be equal, and because EMOTIONS lost, I can vote.
Fortunately, you are on commondreams, and people will point things out to you if you're going off in an emotional, and possibly under informed direction. That happened to me just yesterday and on this very site!