EMAIL SIGN UP!
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
US Threats Mean Evidence of British Resident's Guantánamo Torture Must Stay Secret, Judges Rule
Tory MP David Davis demands urgent Commons statement on MI5 role in Binyam Mohamed case
Evidence of how a British resident held in the Guantánamo Bay detention camp was tortured, and what MI5 knew about it, must remain secret because of serious threats the US has made against the UK, the high court ruled today.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton(R) and British Foreign Secretary David Miliband shake hands after speaking to the press at the State Department in Washington. Clinton said Tuesday the US-British special relationship "really stands the test of time."(AFP/Nicholas Kamm) The judges made clear they were deeply unhappy with their decision, but said they had no alternative as a result of a statement by David Miliband, the foreign secretary, that if the evidence was disclosed the US would stop sharing intelligence with Britain. That would directly threaten the UK's national security, Miliband had told the court.
This afternoon David Davis, the Conservative MP and former shadow home secretary, said ministers must urgently respond to the allegations that Britain was complicit in torture. He demanded a Commons statement from the government on the ruling, calling it "a matter of utmost national importance".
Davis said: "The ruling implies that torture has taken place in the [Binyam] Mohamed case, that British agencies may have been complicit, and further, that the United States government has threatened our high court that if it releases this information the US government will withdraw its intelligence cooperation with the United Kingdom.
"The judge rules that there is a strong public interest that this information is put in the public domain even though it is politically embarrassing."
He told the BBC: "The government is going to have to do some pretty careful explaining about what's going on."
The ruling, by Lord Justice Thomas and Mr Justice Lloyd Jones, was the latest from a long-running and unprecedented series of court hearings into the abduction of Binyam Mohamed, who was seized and held incommunicado in Pakistan in 2002 before being secretly rendered to Morocco, where he says he was tortured.
He was subsequently flown to Afghanistan before being rendered to Guantánamo Bay.
Today's ruling comes after the judges last year invited the Guardian and other media groups to question earlier claims by Miliband that the disclosure of evidence, originally contained in documents given to him by the US government, would threaten the UK's national security.
- Posted in
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...
55 Comments so far
Show AllThe Brits should call the US bluff and stand up for what is just and moral. Why would the Brits want the flawed US intelligence anyway? The intelligence is just serving the interests of the US Military Machine / US Corporations. But they won't. Corruption is just too profitable.
Maybe the government and MI5 is hiding beneath a convenient cover story.
Exactly what will the US not share? About the WMD in Iraq, and that sort of thing? And does either side tell the other anything but a) what serves their own agenda, b) what they think they should know, or c) what is common knowledge anyway?
Using the words together, military intelligence was always an oxymoron.
See, nothing changed
!!! Bush threatened them, Obama threatens them. Same outrage, different face!!
But I could be wrong !
I think you are wrong. The alleged threat was made a year ago when Bush was the torturer:
"Today's ruling comes after the judges last year invited the Guardian and other media groups to question earlier claims by Miliband that the disclosure of evidence, originally contained in documents given to him by the US government, would threaten the UK's national security."
This was last year.
Nowhere does it say that Obama or Clinton threatened Britain.... The Article is Bull Shit.
And a Tory is leading the drive for truth and justice in this case!! And the UK thinks it has a "special relationship" with the US Empire? This ruling reveals the UK to be no more than the US Empire's galley slave and is eqivalent to a kick in the teeth. Also revealed is the degree of continuity between BushCo and ObamaInc and the latter's willingness to provide accountibility and return to the rule of law.
Is it really hard to guess how he was tortured?
Its either as bad as what we already know or worse.
The only real news here is the US threats under the new administration.
... if the evidence was disclosed the US would stop sharing 'intelligence' with Britain.
Will this mean that MI5 will need to invent it's own fantasies?
Surely British writers like Terry Gilliam could do a more credible job.
Point of information:
Terry Gilliam (IMHO the most talented Python) is American.
Actually, evidence seems to indicate that the U.S., of all major western powers, has the poorest intelligence, both figuratively and literally. Therefore, if the U.S. ended intelligence sharing with the U.K., it might harm the U.S.'s interests more than the U.K.'s.
This is bullshit. I don't believe a word of it. Nobody would want the kind of intelligence the US has been dishing out.
The British are slow witted. They have not yet noticed that the school yard bully has been beaten and is on his way down.
>>The British are slow witted. They have not yet noticed that the school yard bully has been beaten and is on his way down.
Oh, really....after 8 f*&#ing years of the Bush regime, he and his pal Dick getting elected, re-elected, and then escaping prosectution for their lies, is the "bully" really beaten? Seems to me like we just replaced the bully that is now on vacation with another (who is busy appointing neocons and rethugs to his cabinet, bombing Pakistan, backing Israeli genocide in Gaza, the forthcoming "surge" in Afghanistan, and so on).
If we are going to talk about wits, then if the British are "slow witted", Americans are completely witless.
I would imagine that you are a Brit. If so please understand that ,while it appears that all Americans are witless egomaniacs, in reality that is simply untrue. I apologize for the thoughtless and sophomoric insult your nation received. Please understand that most of us know that we are all in this together.
"Most people would sooner die than think, in fact they do so. Bertrand Russell
Bush and Cheney were never elected.
Jeevee
SO true. However, American cowardice of the majority and love of luxury ("Shop till you drop") were vital factors in growing the Second Dark Age, which is unutterably more dangerous to survival than the first. It appears that humans want to "...hold the whole world in (its) hands," rather than leaving that right to Divinity. God shows the right path for ethical thinking, but He never forces. Sometimes we wish that He did (force).
These anonymous references always mystify me. I can't believe a country can threaten anyone. More likely, the threat came from an unnamed individual. It sounds cowardly when you think of it.
Good point. A country is an abstraction; it has no voice and no hands.
Not so sure about that.
A country is an abstraction in a way (as in, "the US is a freedom-loving country"), but anything but in another sense, which is Oh! so real. In the sense of this article, it would simply mean that someone representing the government did whatever. The government has control of the state apparatus, the 'state' being the collective embodiment of the 'country'.
And as such, the gov't can do decidely un-abstraction things like: invade countries and bomb the bejeesus out of them. Very real, that.
So 'countries' don't speak to one another, that's true. But when a authorized representative of a gov't speaks to his counterpart in another country (thus the euphemism of one country talking to another) and says: "Do this or we'll bomb you back to the stone age".... it can be EXTREMELY REAL.
You are making my point for me. The confusion over what is abstract and what is concrete is a factor in the great crimes of every age.
There are no absolutes so it's just my opinion against yours. The result is that the most aggressive, best connected, richest, meanest son of a bitch stands up and announces that it is he who speaks for this or that country. Consider George Bush Inc. They walked all over congress, the constitution, the courts, barely a word of protest from anyone with official power was heard.
All governments are both monstrous and weak. They have not the strength or will or vigor of a single individual, for a single individual can bend them to his will.
City States ended. It's time for nation states to end. The future of the planet depends on it.
Only armies....
"US threatens UK foreign secretary: keep torture evidence secret-"
-or we'll waterboard you.
Bogus story. To be swallowed only by the gullible.
Miliband is lying, trying to use the U.S. as a shield. You can be sure no such threat was ever made. British hands are dirty in this too, and the British government doesn't want the truth out either.
Not sharing intel would bring the end of rickety old NATO pronto.
And Curmundgeon99, your are wrong. But let's assume you aren't just a Obama-disparaging troll. Bush didn't threaten the British. He didn't have to. They have been co-conspirators all along. And of course neither has Obama threatened them. Perfidious Albion.
Hilzoy at Political Animal has a great post showing cynics to be the cowards they are -- living always in fear of disappointment.
Golly gee, Golly Gee, I will be the first to admit that i'm wrong if Obama retracts the threatening statement.
I am not an anti-Obama troll. Far from it. I just watch and try to evaluate his decisions and policy appointments. I'll leave it to others to expound on his decisions so far that are anathemic to his campaign rhetoric. I will say that his continuing embrace of Wall Street and the banks as well as his unabashed support of Israel and his Aghan ocupation expansion do not bode well for the U.S. His appointment of anti single payer insurance advocates does not bode well for the level of health care in the future, either.
The only thing he has going for him is 'Hope for change'. I'm still hoping he will change and defy the Corporate oligarchy running our country, but I am not holding my breath.
BTW - I really resent the 'troll' remark. I associate trolls here on CD to spout propaganda and don't think for themselves. If you don't like what I think about Obama, get him to live up to his promise of change - hopefully for the better. Get him to live up to the promise of a bright, articulate young man with a chance to bring humanity and rule of law back to our society.
But I could be wrong !
GG
=====
Bogus story. To be swallowed only by the gullible.
Miliband is lying, trying to use the U.S. as a shield. You can be sure no such threat was ever made.
=====
Provide a link to a reliable source for this claim?
The British newspapers are quickly backpedaling this story.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/4/14578/60606/500/693096
US/UK special relationship. Sorta loke the special relationship between Lucky Luciano & Meyer Lansky, only much more lethal to society.
I think that the article is mere speculation and that a governmental statement is needed. First, the US cannot quit sharing info with UK since both equally need one another. Second, a judge is supposed to pass judgement according to the law and not according to political considerations.
"a judge is supposed to pass judgement according to the law and not according to political considerations."
I'm sure that's true. Doesn't mean you can't express anger and frustration in the course of your judgment.
There was a similar case here in the UK a couple of years ago, when a coroner's court was denied access by the US Air Force to cockpit recordings that proved that a couple of gung-ho US A-10 pilots killed British soldiers in a "friendly fire" incident in 2003. A British newspaper - the Sun, much derided by us on the left of the political spectrum, but occasionally right on the ball - made public the audio-video material. Doubtless, it was leaked by someone equally angry and frustrated that the US should treat its best ally in such a contemptuous manner.
That said, I'm not hopeful that the British Government will take the US Government to task over this anytime soon. If anyone is going to do anything useful in this case, it will be President Obama, not Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
The opposition UK MP says: "The government is going to have to do some pretty careful explaining about what's going on." I believe that, whether the current "government" of the U.S. was or wasn't involved in the alleged effort to intimidate Britain on the torture investigation, our own government is obligated as well to do "careful explaining about what's going on." (or what did go on). My question is whether anyone in the media or those who allegedly do "oversight" in Congress is going to call for such explaining. From the tenor of some of the comments here, it would appear that even entertaining the possibility of what the MP says is true is enough to get one labelled as an anti-Obama "troll" of some kind.
I think you credit "GollyGee" with too much insight. GG's is the only comment I can see here that sort of vaguely implies that we here generally think President Obama is beyond reproach. Correct me if you think I'm wrong.
The U.K. sprung! Not that anyone would be surprised. Britain was allowing its airports to be used for rendition and, of course, Britain was in the forefront of 'shock and awe'.
America, Britain and Israel. What a trio. It's time they were hung from the same tree.
www.dangerouscreation.com
This is another reason for the investigation and trial of Bush et al.
Domestic anti terriorist program who target former community organizers from the 1970'ss.
Listen to this report by Laura Flanders:
http://blip.tv/file/1714182/
Every time Britain cooperates with the United States their national security is threatened.
Pan
These secrets are Archived in a caves at Gibraltar.
Liberty and freedom for ALl
Elites do know how to stick together, don't they?
What a bunch of spineless lapdogs.
Don't worry about the U.K. spilling the beans!
There is a new threat, one that is potentially going to destabilize the whole world. It's the election of NETANYAHU!
My latest post goes into details about how he intends to 'Harness the U.S. Administration' to assist in his plans for a Greater Israel.
Don't miss it!
www.dangerouscreation.com
Thanks David G , great web site.
Bornfreemen ,
American, not SPYmerican, Not TORTUREmerican
In a statement, the White House said it "thanked the UK government for its continued commitment to protect sensitive national security information".
It added that this would "preserve the long-standing intelligence sharing relationship that enables both countries to protect their citizens".
-- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7870896.stm
· Yr Obd't Servant
Has anyone noticed that Mr. Obama has bombed Pakistan? Now, instead of prosecuting the FISA wiretappers and torturers, Mr. Obama is making deals to keep the information secret so no prosecutions will be possible.
The idiot American public has been snookered again.
hoyt 10:00 -------- I predicted all the Obama failings; yet I still feel like crying.
whatever the facts are: the British of all people should KNOW and learn from their own history as an empire:
that when the United States SAYS:
"cooperation" it REALLY means OBEDIENCE.
and RECOGNIZE what the british themselves DID as an empire, in india, in africa, in asia, in the middle east...speaking of "cooperation" ...and in the USA itself as a colony , first towards the native indians and then towards the colonial british who became the americans.......COOPERATION means -- "YOU OBEY". and that it is now the USA that is COMMANDING Britain to do "as we say".
the British PEOPLE were WISE when they recognized the failure and burdens of EMPIRE UNSHACKLED themselves of it at the end of world war 2......
they would be even WISER if they unshackle themselves of "cooperation" with their erstwhile "colony" now GROWN into a MONSTROUS tyrant and Jailer of the planet.
if anything the British -- who really "invented" the concept of "capitalism" of which the United States is now the clearly FAILING "champion" of that practices it in its most egregious ways - and the british who ALSO brought perhaps their most PRECIOUS contribution to humankind: the MAGNA CARTA as the basis of modern definitions of the rights of man - particularly the RIGHT to BE FREE of arbitrary and unsupportable STATE or Power Class imprisonment and punishment --
are in a SUPREME POSITION to DIVEST themselves of the most EVIL things that their own empire had generated:
the COMBINATION of Capitalism - and the abrogation of human rights -- as shown by the United States in its policies..and TAKE BACK what england had begun as its most treasured gift -- the MAGNA CARTA...which applies DIRECTLY and UNIQUELY to a
BRITISH CITIZEN tortured BY the United States - its "progeny" GONE INSANE!!
The British people have a supreme opportunity to be more noble than they EVER were as an empire. THIS is that moment.
BY DISOWNING the BASTARD child calling itself "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".
Obama started out well, announcing the obvious: that waterboarding IS torture. I hope it's true that a special procecutor, if one is appointed in the future, will have no interference from the white house.
However, let's face some facts here. Nothing is likely to happen. ALL empires torture, i'm afraid. It is the nature of being a world power. When you train boys to kill, give them machine guns, and you put them in harm's way without any adult supervision...
Sooner or later, they are going to enact some vigilante justice to avenge their comrades. But to let this become the state sanctioned public policy is completely un-American and against everything the founders fought for. Yes, I know, I know: the Native Americans etc. But they were not considered U.S. or Brittish citizens. And the individual in question here was a British citizen if I understand the case discussed.
Cruelty with the American Indians keeps being brought up.....But all through history, farming cultures had to evict tribal hunting cultures as the two are incompatible in the face of having to feed a large growing population: this is Anthropology 101.
I am not trying to justify these horrible acts of so-called "combat." I am merely a spectator and a citizen who has the right to comment on my government's policies. But to defend torture is suicidal and if we were smart, we would make it a capital offense and sacrafice the Bush Crime Family to try to regain some semblance of our former respect that we used to have in many parts of the world.
That's what I think anyway.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson --- 12:01-- Thanks for keeping an open mind. I do not believe the Hunting/ Farming dicotomy is valid. Look closely at Native Americans and my estimate is 60% -- 80% engaged in agriculture. I believe a more accurate dicotomy would be Tribal/ Corporate. Many of the earliest invaders were on royal or coporate charters. Also mining, railroads and corporate ranching spelled the demise of Native Americans.
This attack on the Tribal is just as virulant today, hence the msm chant "the lawless NW Tribal areas".
You may be more correct Glen Ford, and I very much like your "Tribal/Corporate" association, for, it really is probably more acurate than my model; what is taught in Anthropology, the study of human remains and behavior.
One of the known NA behaviors is tent dwellings that can be moved for migration following seasons and game. Maybe I should have profered that hunter/gatherer migration over huge land areas is incompatable with sedintary farming existance which was developed to stave off famine in the face of exploding populations.
In a sense, many Large Homo sapien groups tend towards destructive tribal behavior, wouldn't you say?; be it Skull and Bones or the outlaw Oil and Banking corporations. They tend to rationalize murder and theft as a means to enrich their own small clans. They now have redirected their misdeeds against the middle class American who, is clueless and glued to the Fox News Misinformation Network. My point is that this Native American malaise is not unique to the American Empire, it is in fact the oldest story in the world. Indiginous tribes throughout time engauged in avenging death with each other and with corporate invaders. Many tribes in Brazil and Africa are being exterminated by elite robber barons as we speak.
In defense of the founders, even though they failed to resolve inevitable Indian Tribe conflict (their self-addmitted biggest failure,) they were coginzant of it, and Washington, Adams and Jefferson went to great pains to reign in frontiersmen who were not going to quit settling further West (somewhat like the settlers on the West Bank today.)
Isn't a Palistenian an indiginous Indian? I hear very little outrage about that ongoing Holicaust against penned up people in concentration camps without an airforce, navy or anything but poorly-guided short range firecracker rockets.
Enjoyed the conversation.
TJ
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
" if the evidence was disclosed the US would stop sharing intelligence with Britain"
No more Nigerian yellowcake and Iraqi WMD???
Britain should realize that the US Intelligence service sees Britain as a foreign power and a competitor for world dominance...the intelligence they share is worth squat.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
We in the USA warned our cabal of elites repeatedly since 9/11 that their rampage will accelerate their demise. But they surprised everyone with their determination to reach it sooner. Wide open throttle!
rtdrury 12:48 -------- Calling these people brain dead is an under statement.
Intelligence... haha where was the intelligence when we needed it.... 9/11 the greatest failure intelligence in history. UK, call the bluff. Stand up! Be proud! Quit being a lapdog! Get some testerone!
And get out of wars in Asia. Quit, out, stay home and tend to what needs tending. We don't need these far flung "wars" if you want to call them that. They are occupations.
We are sick and tired of these mid east adventures. We want America back for a better life. We can not understand the mid eastern mind or values. And we don't really need to, really we don't! Puh lease!
Yankee, go home! Home needs lots of attention!
Wasn't it MI5 that released the WMD tripe? I'm pretty sure, but not positive that it was their bodgy little article that was circulated through the States and Australia (where I read it).