'Taxpayer Ripoff': Many Economists Skeptical of Bailout
Many of the same economists and opinion-makers who'd provided a bipartisan sheen of consensus to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's
previous moves have quickly begun casting doubts on the wisdom of a
policy that would allow Treasury to purchase without oversight hundreds
of billions of dollars of difficult-to-price assets from financial
institutions.
Under the proposal, Paulson would not have to report to Congress until
December, and the only safeguard for taxpayers was a provision that the
“Secretary shall take into consideration means for — (1) providing
stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking
system; and (2) protecting the taxpayer.”
Skepticism toward the plan reflected more than the predictable desires
of the left to spread the wealth to Main Street or of the right to
reject government bailouts, although those sentiments were also
expressed.
"We need to take a bold move. In that sense I think Paulson is right,"
Luigi Zingales, a Professor at the University of Chicago School of
Business who wrote a widely circulated short essay titled "Why Paulson is Wrong,” told Politico.
Zingales fears that the Treasury bailout would effectively turn the
entire financial sector into a Government Sponsored Enterprise,
complete with the same murkiness and moral hazard that sunk Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
“It might achieve the final outcome, but it will do so at an enormous
cost," he said. "All the troubles we’ve seen with Fannie and Freddie
would be seen again and again across the entire financial sector."
President Bush is “asking for a huge amount of power,” said Nouriel Roubini, an economist at New York University who was among the first to predict the crisis. “He's saying, ‘Trust me, I'm going to do it right if you give me absolute control.' This is not a monarchy.” (Roubini told the New York Times that despite these concerns, he also thought the plan could help stave off a recession.)
Paul Krugman, the Princeton University economist and liberal columnist for The New York Times who had until now been cautiously supportive of Paulson's and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s efforts to prop up the system, wrote that the new plan would be a taxpayer rip-off. “I hate to say this, but looking at the plan as leaked, I have to say no deal,” he wrote on his blog at 4:46 p.m. Saturday. “Not unless Treasury explains, very clearly, why this is supposed to work, other than through having taxpayers pay premium prices for lousy assets.”
Yves Smith, a longtime banker and contributor to the influential
finance blog Naked Capitalism, published an angry post there titled, "Why You Should Hate The Treasury Bailout Proposal":
"Given that continuing to buy U.S.
assets will come under increasingly harsh scrutiny overseas, the U.S.
needs to bend over backwards to devise a plan that at least looks
credible in terms of directing the funds that come from taxpayers and
lenders to their highest and best uses and implementing reforms that
will restore active and prudent oversight of financial firms," she
wrote. "The administration's demand for a free pass, even if Congress
unwisely goes along, is likely to backfire with our foreign creditors."
Gregory Mankiw, a professor at Harvard University and a former chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers who was the economic guru for Mitt Romney's campaign, favorably linked to Smith's post under the headline "A Blank Check"
and approvingly quoted a correspondent who wrote, "Has more money ever
been given with fewer restrictions on how it is used? Ever?"
Sebastian Mallaby, the center-right economic columnist for The Washington Post and scholar of the modern financial system, was equally dubious. “The plan is being marketed under false pretenses," he wrote in his Sunday column, rejecting comparisons of the plan to the Resolution Trust Corporation,
which the government formed in response to the savings and loan crisis
to purchase and sell off the bad loans made by bankrupted thrifts.
“The administration proposes to buy up bad loans before the lenders go
bust,” Mallaby noted, keeping the banks alive but doing little to solve
the problem infecting the markets. “Bad loans are weighing down the
financial system precisely because private-sector experts can't
determine their worth. The government would have no better handle on
the problem.”
Justin Fox, Time magazine's top financial writer and columnist, also worried about the lack of an upside for the taxpayer. "What I still can't figure out is how Treasury hopes to structure the bailout so there's at least a chance of getting a fair return on that risk-taking," he wrote on his blog.
"How on earth will these things be priced?" Portfolio's Felix Salmon asked about the bad debt Paulson plans to purchase. He also pointed out that Treasury would need to stock its office with bond-trading professionals. "All we know so far is that it's going to be set up as a reverse auction, but that raises more questions than it answers."
One notable proponent of the plan was The Financial Times' unsigned Lex column, which acknowledged the lack of oversight but mostly praised the plan:
"This bailout is necessary and the bill should be pushed through quickly. … Nor is the package necessarily a disaster for the taxpayer or the U.S. dollar. If the Treasury buys assets well, and confidence is restored, there is [a] chance that Mr. Paulson could win fund manager of the year."
Zingales, though, writes in "Why Paulson Is Wrong" that "For somebody like me who believes strongly in the free market system, the most serious risk of the current situation is that the interest of a few financiers will undermine the fundamental workings of the capitalist system. The time has come to save capitalism from the capitalists."
Twitter
StumbleUpon
Facebook
Delicious
Digg
Newsvine
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
92 Comments so far
Show AllYou Decide
I am an economist, business person and an American. Here are 10 points to send to your congress people.
1. Let the investment banks fail. Someone will step forward if the function is needed.
2. They were the experts at risk management. They failed. Let them fall.
3. The money went somewhere. Where did it all go? Who got obscenely rich and where is the money?
4. The bailout plan will devalue the US currency by over 10%
5. The bailout plan is not needed. Businesses fail. Others step forward.
6. If we can consider $1 trillion in bailouts to the lambskin wallet crowd, let's bailout through infrastructure projects around the world, people desperate for food and work.
7. See No. 1
8. The devaluation of the US currency if the bailout goes through means $5+ gasoline and higher food prices.
9. See No. 1
10. No one is above the law or the review of the courts. If Paulson is granted such authority, you may check the box that says you now live in a fascist country.
Say it again:
"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." This is in the bail-out bill (see HuffingtonPost). This is the meat of the story of the bill. Taxpayers are in the process of being stuck with the biggest bill in the history of this country, and there will be no one held accountable if it turns out badly. There will be no one held accountable for the calculation, for the selection or quantity of each disbursement, for accounting for the expenditures. No one is even going to get to check the math!
This is actually in the legislation: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." This is the crooks writing the laws.
Any questions besides: What the fuck? Off A Pig and be a patriot!
"
Sioux Rose
METAL: HIGH response... we live in a state of paradox. Enlightened souls recognize the ongoing quality of life, and try to act with kindness and awareness of karmic repercussions at all times. YET... we do live, in part, on this physical plane and are for the time invested in it.
A few people brought up the Mayan prophecies and how they converge with the Christian belief in End Times, and there is also a key astrological parallel.
Uranus is the planetary ruler of the sign of Aquarius (new age); and Neptune is the planetary ruler of the age that is passing away (Pisces). Uranus' orbit is 84 years and Neptune's is 165, and currently they are passing through each other's sign "kingdoms." I refer to this as the cosmic equivalent of a "changing of the guard." What's so ostensible to astrologers is that Uranus represents Truth, the unchanging verities. However, its mandate is seriously diluted and/or deluded in that this PRINCIPLE of truth is crossing through the domain of Pisces dual fish, where things are being made to appear as what they are not. Take Bush's WAR FOR PEACE, or killing for democracy, etc. TRUTH has been inverted! Meanwhile Pisces' ruler Neptune, known for camouflage and treachery, is passing through THE sign of truth. This astrological fact is made real in our world as truth can hardly be separated from fiction. We can liken the adage, "a grain of truth" to the realm of biogenetics... where there, too, the GENUINE ELEMENT can no longer be separated from the fake amalgam, the "substantial equivalent" of the manmade engineered mutant that's being let loose on the natural world like a cancer.
Will mankind survive? NO one really knows... I tend to think we will unless a nuclear war is catalyzed, and tragically, those that would PREFER such an outcome have their hands in powerful places. AS for the methane and global warming, I suspect the "End times" as projected by Nature will occur little by little, place by place. For instance, were there not a major mass media, and you lived in New Orleans or in Southern Thailand when that Christmas tsunami struck, or perhaps in Iraq being everywhere leveled with bombs... in any one of these places, you might conclude it WAS END TIMES. I believe enclaves will survive, and that may be 20 years or more up the road. Meanwhile, we have our imploding economy to deal with, exposures to toxic substances bringing cancer rates sky high at every turn, and the daily tests of life to cope with, or where possible, transcend. Meditation is good as it reminds us that the outline of our body is not the truth to all that is, and shall endure.
Ironic that Bush said we couldn't afford 7 billion for healthcare for children, but 700 billion for financial healthcare.NO PROBLEM!
I'm not an economist, but to me it seems that the American taxpayer has to cough up quite a lot of money for what used to be called a pig in a poke, that may not be worth it. That's quite encouraging if you're a pre-teen American; you and your generation will be paying off the debts of your (grand-)parents.
If I die and leave of lot of debts, my kids don't have to pay for them. So how can a government expect unborn children to pay for it's greed and foolishness?
They spent the last 6+ years siphoning off more than 500 Billion dollars from the treasury, how do you top that? 700+ Billion in a matter of days. This is the final hoax that they'll talk about for years down on their ranches in Paraguay.
US taxpayer cash for Wall Street trash.
Isn't crony capitalism grand?
.
911 FlashBack!!!
This Financial MeltDownTM is totally manufactured, just like 911IraqTM was hoaxed onto all gullible Muricans.
When you refuse to participate in the frantic breathless bullshit being spewed, and look at this “Crisis” from merely the historical perspective of just a few years, you can easily spot the pattern of manipulation.
Republican Talking Head, and I directly quote “This is not about Wall Street, this is about protecting the American People.”
Like parrots, over and over they all repeat this exact same talking point!
Extreme Danger. Extreme Urgency. Extreme Spin.
Extreme thrust toward their underhanded, devious goals.
Just like 911, this was allowed to happen.
Just like Iraq, this new crisis is contrived.
Why did several key intuitions that have survived major U.S. was, depressions, all fall like dominoes? To create the feelings of fear and urgency, just like Iraq!
Just a few weeks ago, the truth finally emerged that a key Republican was called into a meeting just before Iraq invasion, and was told a total line of horrifying and intimidating bullshit – then filled with dread, he supported the war.
NOW – just days ago, news emerges of a similar meeting, where word is “leaked” that America was just days away from Financial ArmageddonTM.
The abuser, who has been raping the victim repeatedly for years sees the end in sight, so he goes on one last “what the hell” rapefest like there will be no tomorrow.
Unfortunately for the rest of the sane people on planet, this might make the last eight years soon be fondly remembered as the good old days before the DarkAgeTM – during which Obama is blamed for the catastrophe.
My, my. Funny how it all worked out that the American people are reduced to frantic fearful powerless drone bee status – just before the election!
Iran wasn’t feasible at the moment, so wait… [Drum roll please] your new and improved RepublicanCrisisTM.
.
Americans should closely examine HOW we got into this mess. Start with the Israeli lobby in this country, and wrap the study up with Greenspan, Fuld, Greenburg, Bernanke, Paulson, Muksaey, Weil, Rubin, Prince and all the other Zionists on Wall St and in Washington DC. Result: An unnecessary war of choice that has killed hundreds of thousands, and a soon-to-be national debt of $11.3 TRILLION. The national debt was about $5.6 TRILLION when Bush took office. Of course, if you are part of the "in" crowd that Paulson represents, you will do fine.
don't assume that I am divorcing the money and power hungry elite from responsibility here..
BUT.. doesn't some responsibility also have to go with the populace? who want the biggest most expensive house they can possibly afford? instead of opting for what is comfortable? I recall several years ago when my then-partner and I were looking at houses.. we knew what he was pre-qualified to buy.. and bet assured that we opened the realtors book ( which are listed from low to high in ascending order) at the top end of our qualification range.. I will hazard a guess that most buyers do the same. And that most realtors have been pushing that red line.. and that the bankers try to get the homeowner qualified as highly-numbered as possible.. all the members of this long line being in a greedy feeding frenzy- all having bought into the more more more, mentality.. more credit cards, more house, more stuff..
I know my then-partner and I lived with my family for several years and socked away a bit of cash.. does anyone do this anymore, or is it somehow anathema to the american perception of success and prosperity?
And yes, I know that many of those caught in this are low income and high risk first-time buyers, who want that slice of the american-dream-pie.. but very few of us are remembering how to live conscientiously...
american pie, and american dream,.. we have all been buying dream-pie.. and like the cash that gets printed with nothing to back it.. there is no substance behind much of that pie..
we need real pie.. not an american dream.. and we need to STOP trying to get TODAY with the hope of somehow being able to pay for it later..
By the way, those whom caused this by saying it was ok for their company to make 125% loans with no down, no payment for 1 year, no interest for three years, no income verification, no apprasil. and what ever other stupid load shark shit they pulled should be stripped of all assets and sent to GUANTANIMO for the remainder of the crisis ( my grandchilds lifetime ).
I have been in forclosed homes to invest in, they are not pristeen properties I have mostly seen homes with tens, to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of vandalism by disgruntled borrowers who feel they were cheated.
The saddest part was the kids toys, lying among the shattered American dreams.
Can we impeach Bush now? Or is this Gods judgment on him, because we did not.
So many good comments:
Lobo Gris you got it, as did you Gracchus and as you say MiMiCcS “When nations take back their right to create money for the public good, then things can be changed.” The likelihood is up to “you/us the people”. But now is the moment. And Sioux Rose already you saw that there is no “new funding” necessary, just move it from the corporate fat cat’s pork barrels and trickle up not down. And Stone, I believe we make our “own times” all the time, starting now.
It ain't funny ~COCO~ but it did make me laugh anyway. ___ Thanks, ~Kem~.
The experts are skeptical?? No kiddin. they are probably skepticla about cons, liars, scams and incredible bull-shit too. This deal wil devalue the dollar so far in the hole that we will have a depression. Hope I'm wrong, but hope is another four letter word.
C O C O,
I also want to thank you ( for a hilarious break from The Great Depression _ I _ I _ , the sequel ), although I think they left out a couple of the side effects of that snake oil medicine:
__ possible anal discharge, when viewing those less fortunate
__ possible cavity occupation, by social climbers
Namaste
My two cents worth.
The bailout is a short term way to re-prime the financial pump. Now this pump has failed, drying up bank to bank trust and therefore bank to customer credit. But, it does not solve the fundamental problem of the banks needing to lend more in order to create money in order to lend more… the dragon eating its own tail… with competition for profit and weak regulation (insatiable appetite and indigestion) the dragon gets ever hungrier but ever weaker….. declining dollar/failing economy…. Hyper inflation as money moves to ever higher yields, higher risk, shorter term return, speculative investment while longer less speculative more substantial (infra-structure, industrial…) and stable investment is starved from capital and growth declines to a shrinking economy… in short, black hole economics, money chasing money down an inflationary hole that sucks away its value, resulting in negative growth, rising unemployment, soaring inflation, deteriorating infrastructure in other words back to were you are today but more so. The banks will be full of valueless money with no one of substance qualified to borrow it. Bankers will invent paper investments and buy them off each other until the first one calls the paper for what it is. Then what? They all come tumbling down yet again, or another bailout and for how much this time?
The key is to clearly separate banks from investment houses as was always the case before the repeal of Glass-Steagall. The primary function of the bank should not be the creation of money through credit for their profit but rather the preservation of the value of their customer’s money which is entrusted to them. Banking should be more boring and only creative on behalf of the customer. A new Fed, being properly independent of the banks, transparent and itself regulated by government oversight must regain the control of money supply for the benefit of the whole of the American people present and future. This has been lost to the banks and the people who can see know it. However to do this present bank assets must be marked to market by using a formula with some grip on reality (nearly impossible as the bottom of the market is falling out but hey, arbitrary creative accounting has been these guys forte so far, so they’ll think up some fiction that holds air if not water or something in between).
So, the 700 billion or more likely 1.3 trillion, should not go to a bailout but to putting value directly into development of the whole economy, jobs, research and development grants, small and medium company loans, micro-credits, etc… in a new green and self sustaining national drive, of a non-military oriented America, of mutually caring (health-housing-education-welfare-arts) American people, for whom the corporations and banks will have to work for. (Not the other way round).
No extra funds are needed. Bring the troops home, close overseas bases, (end illegal biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons development programs) and reduce defence spending by 50% over 7 years.
In ten years once again America could have rich people with hungry corporations treating them like customers, rather than what it has today, fat corporations and banks and poor people.
This bailout represents the fat corporations asking the poor people to foot the bill for their never ending binge of greed and their friends in government, who have always rolled over doing their bidding as usual.
Up to you. Or is it? That is the question.
The first thing we notice is that the journalists reporting on the bailout fiasco are failing to describe the fiasco itself at its core. Instead, they merely shriek "fiasco!" and report on the looting of the wreckage.
here's something to make you all laugh:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ea0b05d406
___ ¿ My God, is nothing sacred any longer ? ___
I do own my mental illness, and I will not let the Republican Party take what little sanity that I have left, and claim that they did this all, to ALL of US.
Stand up for your right to be INSANE intrinsically on your own, w/o manipulation by creepy repukelicans
Namaste
1.) Cage the capitalist beast.
2.) Slam the door.
3.) Lock the lock.
4.) Throw away the key.
Larisa Alexandrovna in a blog here presents this information ..
"Adam Davidson of NPR blogs about the so-called bailout bill as follows:
I would guess that this has to be one of the biggest peacetime transfers of power from Congress to the Administration in history. (Anyone know?). Certainly one of the most concise.
The Treasury Secretary can buy broadly defined assets, on any terms he wants, he can hire anyone he wants to do it and can appoint private sector companies as financial deputies of the US government. And he can write whatever regulation he thinks are needed.
Most importantly, Davidson points to this passage in the bill:
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
If this is true, make sure congress doesn't let this happen.
Unf#cking believeable. Lehman Bros. that has just declared bankruptcy has set aside 2.5 billion dollars for bonuses for it's New York staff.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fury-at-25bn-bonus-for-lehmans-new-york-staff-937560.h...
Lobo Gris
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/dollar-deception.php
The Federal Reserve System creates money out of thin air. From loans. When the government sells them Treasuries, what is that, simply a promise to pay with interest. The Fed buy it with money they create. The commercial banks do the same with mortgages and other loans.
Money is debt. If we can issue Treasuries for the Fed to create money, we can issue our own money, interest free.
This kind of thing gets Presidents killed though.
That said, if we provide them money, make it our own money, tax free and debt free, and put the Fed out of the money creating business.
"This kind of thing gets Presidents killed though." Not enough people know about it though.
Local currencies ... check out "Ithaca Hours". LETS systems work at a local level.
If you ever manage to get out of debt, stay out of debt even if it means going hungry from time to time.
The Mother of All Frauds (watch the video at...
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/2008/09/20.html
Looks like another Patriot Act....
"We have a crisis on our hands! Here's the solution. Please sign on the dotted line.
Sorry you won't have time to read it, understand it, question it, amend it.
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE!!!"
Here's the real kicker....
"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
(in other words, we want a blank check and noooooooo oversight.
From the same crowd who brought you...."We don't need no steenkin' regulation.")
Now you can watch your elected representatives fall all over themselves to get this thing passed....
just like they rushed to sign the Patriot Act and give Bush approval to take us into war.
Nobody wants to be branded as stalling on this important matter when America is so close to "falling off a cliff"...
just like they didn't want the "smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud".
Quick, lemmings.... just sign the damn thing.
Taxpayers: Demand DEBT FORGIVENESS for all households earning under $250K annually or call for a GENERAL STRIKE! Without debt relief for the sinking middle class, this economy will tank no matter how much $$$ the Feds throw at Wall Street. I AM OUTRAGED!!!
A general strike by all real workers would really cause the shit to hit the fan.
This should happen sooner or later. Instead of asking We The People Who Get Up At Six In The Morning To Go To Work to bail out the investment banks, how about seizing the assets of all the multi-millionaires and billionaires and using their money to fix this economic mess! Leave each of them $5 million. That should get them by for awhile!
“I think anybody who doesn’t think I’m smart enough to handle the job is underestimating.”
[George W. Bush]
EKATON: i've read the same stuff- tho do not take it as the end of times. it is only the end of a calendar. perhaps also take a look that Pluto will be entering Capricorn at the end of November 2008, turned direct September 2008. i've read this is the breakdown of institutions that no longer work and the opportunity to rebuild ones that do. keep the faith!
Ekaton, there are actually three calendars arrived at independently by different ancient civilizations that fall within two hundred years of one another. The first is 2012. When the time arrives the nature of our existence is to be upgraded from technological to spiritual, the next evolution of man. The time we are in now is approaching the end of the long Mayan Calendar. Prophecies are associated with these times however prophecy can be mitigated. Naturally there has been a great deal of speculation about these times that has been transformed into dogma by some. Consider your sources carefully in deciding what to believe.
12/21/2012 is less than four years and three months hence. Things will become worse and worse until that date. Then the nuclear bombs light up the night time sky. Hey, we human beings had a good run, but we ultimately outsmarted ourselves.
-- EKATON --
I, for one, am not going to put much into Mayan mythology. It's mythology, and nothing more or less. Just as relevant as Roman, Greek, Norse, Celtic, Hawaiian, and Jewish Mythhology, otherwise known as the Old Testament, the basis for Christianity.
How was it that the Mayans knew the supposed birth date of Jesus?
I wonder whether McCain, if he gets in, will really be able to deliver his promised tax cuts. Or will these tax cuts be only for the rich?
Tax cuts for us? You are gullible. McCain's plan is to make permanent the Bush tax cuts for the richest people in this country. If you are looking for McCain to do anything for middle or lower income people, you must still believe in the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus. McCain's efforts in the 1980s to call off the regulatory enforcers from investigating the savings and loan companies delayed action and oversight long enough for a melt-down in that area of the financial world (sound familiar?). His efforts went to help "constituent" and personal friend Charles Keating, who ultimately went to jail for his part in the shenanigans. McCain and four others (the Keating Five) were investigated for their roles in blocking efforts by regulators to reign in the unscrupulous practices. Tens of thousands of depositors in the S&Ls lost their entire life savings -- but that's a drop in the bucket of what is going on now. After this debacle some regulations were put in place in the early 1990s. It took the Republicans, aided by the Clinton administration, until 1999 to undo these regulations and those put in place in the 1930s during the Great Depression (Glass-Steagall). Less than a decade later, we are looking at the biggest meltdown in the financial markets since 1929. Maybe it'll be bigger after all is said and done. Can you see the parallels? This is history repeating itself. This is the grand experiment by the rich and richer replicating the results of 1929 with a few variations.
Sioux Rose
Convergent personal events and my intuitive take: While just biking it hit me that the 1. taxpayer funding of all the planned new nuclear power plants 2. taxpayer funding of a FALSE war launched on FABRICATED evidence and PREMEDITATED pretenses 3. to the taxpayer funding/bailout of these banks that were ALLOWED to play fast and loose with any sensible rules of finance, added to the BIG $ being offshored... where is this $ coming from? Where ARE these trillions? And the answer, it's all a game... the numbers are so big, so incomprehensible, so UNABLE to be repaid that this is a very very elaborate shell game.
Consider that the oval office is essentially being run in a fashion all too similar to organized crime, mafia-style. Its dealings are done in back rooms, some (the oil subsidies game) also involve sexual favors and drugs. Its primary PRODUCT is war, and the ways and means (weapons) to launch it. If an impoverished nation accustomed to "foreign aid" for things like help to farmers or educational stipends for the young, is not interested in wasting its small treasure and endless blood on weapons, the US doesn't necessarily play ball.
Just today I learned that a nuclear power plant is planned for the county I live in. In this part of Florida are the world's most ancient springs, water that in some cases is prehistoric, and some of the most pristine anywhere found. Leave it to big nuclear to think it can come into these sacred recesses like the god vulcan and set up a fire chamber that will poison these precious waters. It just seems it's all coming apart, every sacred thing, every ideal, every covenant... both with nature and our fellow citizens under these diabolical EVIL ones who hid behind Jesus and indeed raised quite a flock of supporters, and their path of destruction is not yet complete. It is also impossible to argue with true believers of this dark realm... they are superficial, believe the buzz words, don't recognize the degree to which they've been swindled, bamboozled, and sabotaged, so like the drivers that can't admit they are lost, they continue supporting the very thing that will undo them.
As the Buddhists teach, human (and all) life is IMPERMANENT. Honor the time you have and use it to love and appreciate your blessings. Much that we have perhaps not relished enough, may not endure long.
Sioux Rose,
Much of real value will not much longer endure. I talk with my brother about this as it relates to the closing window of global warming. It may be that, if there is a God, we are being given a final test as a species. We may not be able to prevent global warming and biosphere collapse from driving humanity into extinction (or existential hell for a tiny fraction of survivors reduced to being scavengers), but our test may be to continue to struggle for what is good and just even though things seem hopeless and may, in fact, be hopeless; to show kindness to one another in confronting whatever may come, and to appreciate what we have left while we still have it.
From a Buddhist perspective these are matters of spirit and the conditions that create bodhisattvas can happen on any world in the polyverse.
"Because they see its defects,
They avoid samsara.
Because their hearts are loving,
Nirvana will not hold them.
The wise who wish the happiness of beings
Dwell even in samsara.
"They are not imprisoned by samsara, as they have seen its imperfections. Because of their great compassion they do not linger in nirvana. As they know there are defects in both, they aspire to an enlightenment that transcends these two extremes."
-- From A Flash of Lightning by the Dalai Lama
When nations take back their right to create money for the public good, then things can be changed. But this is very unlikely to happen.
The current system started with the Bank of England in 1694 and spread like the plague. Attempts by nations like the US to counter it led to wars (War of 1812), the Civil War, and various assasinations (Lincoln and JFK). The system has financed virtually every revolution and large war over the last 314 years as it evolved its NWO where they have globalized their financial dominance. There is a cartel of global central banks, including the Fed, that is led by BIS in Basle which runs the worlds financial system today. Our economy is no longer independent nor is it under US control. Thats why Paulson is bailing out foreign financial institutions.
Even today, those who challenge the NWO are destroyed or isolated (Iran, Iraq, N. Korea, Zimbabwe, Burma-and I am not saying these countries are all that good, but it's their resistance that offends the elite the most).
This bailout was a farce. Now instead of a few rich companies who speculated with extreme stupidity being crushed and bankrupted by free markets, the tax payers cover the burden and the Federal Reserve is completely bankrupt along with Social Security.
Free market means failing businesses should fail! If it caused a depression in the short term; fine. If it happens during an election year, maybe the new people won't be stupid!
It's nothing to what is going to happen when the bubble finishes popping and the FED can't bailout anymore. Free market means free to fail! Don't preach hands-off no regulation then bail out your rich buddies whenever they make crappy financial mistakes.
Thank you, Judah. This is the best way to make those so-called preachers of the free market get a taste of their own medicine.
One stickey little question--if the FED nationalizes all of the mortgages, who will pay local property taxes on forclosures?
It's ironic how many here try to show their knowledge and understanding by blaming people, ideologies or things that have neither the reach of power nor the means to affect something of such magnitude.
It is completely true that very few understand the system of money that controls not any politician, any party, any nation or any market, but is a system to which the entire world subscribes, and is thus so easily lead.
Least of all the Economists who provide the "expert" analysis of what is going on. Economic theory, after all, is based solely on assumptions. "Assuming that resources are infinite . . . ." "Assuming that prosperity is defined by growth . . . ." It is simple, when the basic premise is wrong, the conclusions are wrong.
ardee - "This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs."
If you want to blame one man, then blame Bill Clinton. He was the one who repealed Glass-Steagall.
It's ironic that Obama is trying to show his competence on the economy by surrounding himself with Bob Rubin and the other neo-liberal architects of this disaster.
There is certainly enough blame to go around, Free. My citing Reagan though refers to his mantra of incompetent government and the call for complete freedom from regulation. All else follows from this single ( and far too persuasive)message.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I'd say it was a combination of Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. And don't forget both Bushes who further dragged the economy down with endless wars for oil. Of course, Bill Clinton didn't do very much to repeal Reagan's economic policies even when the Democrats controlled both the Congress and the White House other than trying to pay down the national debt and even that faced major opposition from both parties.
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act a republican introduced bill repealed Glass-Steagall. The bill passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. It was therefor veto-proof and didn't matter if Clinton signed it or not. His veto would have been meaningless. Blame congress if you have your facts right.
__________________________________________________________
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. " Groucho Marx
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
H. L. Mencken
It amazes me how so many people idly stand by and watch the government yet again commit robbery in plain daylight. This is a scam and it was engineered by the Bush Admin., Fed, Treasury, Republicans, Democrats, and Wall Street. I found it interesting to watch politicians on many of the political talkshows this morning look troubled, saying there "was ten to fifteen seconds of silence" after Paulson presented his case. Are you sure that was not ten to fifteen seconds of hilarious laughter? Friday, I sent a scathing and ascerbic letter to Paulson accusing him of helping corroborate this scam. The nerve these people have is astonishing. And once again, just like their phony case for going to war, they are making a phony case to defraud the public out of hundreds of billions, if not trillions (remember no one really knows how much these junk loans really are - some estimates are in the $50-$60 trillion range) of dollars. This is by far the most outrageous fraudulent scam ever perpretrated by the government. So why in the hell are people still voting for Obama and McCain, who are not the solution, but part of the problem? Why is no one making the case that the CEOs of these companies should go to jail? No, instead Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid want legislation limiting the salaries these CEOs receive. Oooh, that is gonna hurt. So John Thain has to give up eating caviar one day per year. Are these people for real? Are they serious? Give me a f*cking break! Why would anyone want to vote for these people??? If you want to send a message, do not vote for Republicans and Democrats, and demand that these CEOs be frog-marched to jail!!
Well, if you're looking for a 3rd party presidency to do the magic,
1. It won't come.
2. Even if did, you still have Congress of both parties in opposition.
You're going to need to start local and build it up from there. In addition, we the people will have to unite against the corporate, military, and religious elites because even in FDR's time, they were very powerful despite labor unity and the Great Depression. In fact, assassination attempts were plotted against FDR. 3rd party presidencies won't last long because both parties will abuse their powers to impeach and remove them from office even though the charges will be false and the corporate media will remain anti-3rd-party.
We need to reform both Congress and the media big time first.
Nebraska Nathan September 21st, 2008 7:53 pm
Well, if you're looking for a 3rd party presidency to do the magic,
"1. It won't come.
2. Even if did, you still have Congress of both parties in opposition."
If we had an electorate angry enough to elect a third party president it would probably include an electorate angry enough to turn out of office most of the House and almost a third of the Senate at the same time. The two parties of the duopoly would be shaking in their boots so bad that the ones left would be falling all over each other trying to do the will of the people and take care of the poor and what's left of the middle class. If not, there is always another election in two years.
Lobo Gris
That's what I'm trying to get at. Unfortuntely, most people in this forum, while I understand that they're angry with Obama for betraying them and would prefer Nader, have to realize that Nader has nowhere to go even if he does make it to the White House, a very high improbability. The system is currently well-entrenched against folks like him. The system must be reformed inside and out if a Nader candidacy is going to fundamentally change things.
Un fortunately what you say, though containing the germ of reality also contains the call for the status quo. As long as we the people continue to vote for a party and a candidate that owes allegiance to the money and not to the people the sick and sordid system continues.
I fully appreciate any efforts from loyal democrats to reform their party, go at it! But I am neither a loyal democrat nor a waster of my vote. I will vote for Ralph Nader and do so as a message to the entrenched majority. As more and more see the futility of supported either party I expect them to join me. Perhaps you will be successful in reforming your Party, I hope so, but I doubt it.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
I think that the only solution to this carefully planned catastrophy is to
Freeze George and Dick in Carbonite and hang them in the Capitol Rotunda
as Horrible Examples for future lawmakers.
I like it. Because it's going to take decades for historians to measure the full extent of the destruction wrought by these two. So then one day, when all the facts are neatly summarized, they can be released from the carbonite to face trial in front of an enlightened world.
If I had 3 investments, and one of those did terribly this year, under the old ways of taxes, I would simply subtract that loss from my overall profits I made on all 3 investments. I don't mind the loss too much because it brought my overall income down. (therefore less tax)
So how much ya wanna bet that JP Morgan will somehow subtract BearStearns from their profits this year? Then you get to the fun part...and why the highest tax brackets have been made as low as possible. You really don't reap your benefits until the taxes are done...next year after the bailout dust has settled.
Ask any small businessperson, and they will tell you 'find all the deductions you can' because if you can't prove expenses--you will pay more tax. All done open and above board according to the latest rules.
I figure all these bailouts, have their benefit if not up front, then on the tax side. Am I wrong?
wild ;)
Speaking of bailouts & taxes, as I warned in previous post, now I would like to say: "I told ya so".
Now that the big boys have time to digest, most of the $700b swindle, You might want to checkout a few timely reports:
"The tax man cometh, giveth" Marine Cole 10/12/08
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081012/REG/810109952
"How IRS breaks could boost bank bailout tab" Matthew Scott 11/02/08
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081102/REG/311039969/1028
wild;)
Yes you nailed it well.
___ … its not what you make that counts, but
___ what you keep ( after taxes ) that matters most
Namaste
thanks for the recognition, I'll send ya smilllllleeeeeesss ;) and not be disheartened, as we watch the circus!! Could ya pass the popcorn?
wild;)
Once upon a time, people loved the circus to see the improbable, unbelievable, and impossible. And it was a great and powerful thing to grow our minds and feelings -- and find joy in amazing acceptance.
Similarly, once we :
(1.) Learn to thrill and enjoy in the contrasts and stimulation ( of life's deep variety ) that allow us to choose differently ( expressing our own unique preferences ), and
(2.) No longer blame everything negative in our own lives upon what we see externally that we don't like in others
We'll much better enjoy the show ( and yes, please do pass the pop corn ) !
Personal responsibility is about owning one's own choices of thinking and feeling, which thereby determines how the show progresses for us. We are ( ultimately ) the only creators of our own realities -- and isn't it funny how often we can find similar realities in people who are of similar "like" minds
Namaste
crunch, crunch....is there an echo in here?
wild;)
Once upon a time, people loved the circus to see the improbable, unbelievable, and impossible. And it was a great and powerful thing to grow our minds and feelings -- and find joy in amazing acceptance.
Similarly, once we :
(1.) Learn to thrill and enjoy in the contrasts and stimulation ( of life's deep variety ) that allow us to choose differently ( expressing our own unique preferences ), and
(2.) No longer blame everything negative in our own lives upon what we see externally that we don't like in others
We'll much better enjoy the show ( and yes, please do pass the pop corn ) !
Personal responsibility is about owning one's own choices of thinking and feeling, which thereby determines how the show progresses for us. We are ( ultimately ) the only creators of our own realities -- and isn't it funny how often we can find similar realities in people who are of similar "like" minds
Namaste
crunch, crunch
wild;)
… being self referential,
___ takes everything to the next level of the
___ infinite reflections shown in the house of mirrors
Namaste
SLOW AND DIRTY
Since this is the Fall Season and Americans tend to communicate this time of year in football metaphors, I propose the following thought. Economic disaster in on our one yard line and our team in Congress is equivocating, masking, weakening, posturing, flat out lying, and about to call a play that will guarantee a win for disaster.
Congress is about to allow the same leadership that got us into this disaster to call the play to get us out of it. A failed leadership will allow a “Quick and Clean” bailout of the banks and Wall Street, and mask it as “in the best interests of the people.” Since when in the last twenty or thirty years has Congress given any thought to the best interests of the American People? Congress is seeking the same old path of least resistance to the detriment of the American People. That is failed policy.
THE PROBLEM IS A "STRUCTURAL PROBLEM." The economic policies of the last thirty years have rendered the middle middle class broke and cast the lower economic classes into near economic destitution.
NAFTA drove millions of good paying American jobs to other countries and had the effect of sharply driving down incomes without correspondingly driving down prices as was promised by its proponents.
The Bush Administration, through propaganda lies and coercion, coupled with a weak and compliant Congress forced America into a three trillion dollar elective war.
The Bush Administration in concert with a compliant Congress cut taxes for the wealthy, worsening the tax burden on the middle class.
The “Trickle Down Theory,” proved false and instead launched a new Guilded Age.
Worker’s incomes did not keep up with increases in worker productivity further dampening the middle class, and further proving the “Trickle Down Theory,” as false.
Business deregulation led to unbridled greed and massive unearned profits based upon falsification of documents and accounting irregularities that became so prevalent as to be chaotic and unknowable.
Corporations cut good paying jobs to maintain and increase their stock prices resulting in good investor and management incomes at the expense of the middle class worker.
It becomes very easy to see what led to the destruction to the economic middle class and why this problem is structural and not cyclical. The middle class is broke and cannot lead us out of this recession through consumer spending.
If Congress allows a quick and clean bailout of Wall Street it will fail. With a declining dollar and growing inflation the middle class will also begin increasingly defaulting on credit card debt. What do we do then? Do we bail out the Banks again and once again be told that it must be done because the consequences of not doing so will be worse for people? A Wall Street bailout is a failed policy and is about to be approved by Congress.
SLOW AND DIRTY IS BETTER THAN QUICK AND CLEAN.
It is obvious that only a comprehensive overhaul of economic policies will bring a healthy balance back to the economy. Since Trickle Down Economics has PROVEN to be false the answer lies in comprehensive economic policy change and cash infusion from the bottom up. Rescuing those families in economic distress who are losing their homes is job number one.
The Republicans are screaming for a bail out while at the same time playing the worst form of politics, blaming the victim. They are attempting to divide people by demonizing the victims. Anyone who stoops that low needs to be openly referred to as Un-American and striped of any power or influence that they have in Congress or in Government. Deliberately hurting American families for political and economic gain in the middle of a crisis is devilish.
SLOW AND DIRTY is better precisely because it will create temporary hardship in the economy which will keep Congressional feet to the fire. Only in a serious and continuing crisis will Congress act on behalf of the people. There is no other choice. It’s time for a come to Jesus meeting on Capitol Hill with no half measures , no excuses, and no rationalizations.
The crowd is roaring DEFENSE but the Congress is not listening. Make them listen NOW!
Stone September 21st, 2008 6:31 pm
"Since Trickle Down Economics has PROVEN to be false the answer lies in comprehensive economic policy change and cash infusion from the bottom up. Rescuing those families in economic distress who are losing their homes is job number one."
This would also bail out Wall Street, the right way, as long as it was accompanied with reregulation, stringent oversight, and a lot of rolling heads (And I don't necessarily mean that figuratively)
Lobo Gris
Before the democrates agree to this proposal they should insist on strict limits on the executive compensation for every firm that uses the federal (MY) loan!
ardee - "This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs."
The real person responsible for this mess is Bill Clinton, since he was the one who repealed the Glass-Steagall Law.
It's ironic that Obama would try and show his competence on the economy by surrounding himself with Robert Rubin and the other neo-liberal architects of this crisis.
Free,
My blaming Reagan does not exclude others from culpability of course. It notes only that Reagan sold the idea of government incompetence and blundering to the American public, from which stems all deregulation that has led us to this point.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Presidents (prior to the current unelected Resident, anyway) can not repeal laws.
Hello? Clue?
Oh goody let's replace the Bush/Cheney/Mccain gang with Obama bin Biden gang, the candidates of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Their former managers are now economic advisers to Obama's campaign.
Obama, the candidate of gloom and doom (sorry, hope and change) is close to raising $400 million for his campaign. Let's replace Republicans with Democrats, who kept buying bullets for Bush the serial killer for 8 years.
When will you feeble-minded voters ever learn?
Nader's great and all but you still have Congress of both parties who will show their strong opposition and render him irrelevant and with the help of their corporate media, they'll bring false charges against Nader and the votes to impeach and convict are right there. You need to reform Congress and the media FIRST before you can expect Nader to be relevant let alone save America. Besides, even in FDR's time, he faced strong opposition and even assassination attempts. Nader isn't even going to stand a chance what with the current system more powerful, destructive, and rigged against him or for that matter any 3rd party. You gotta long ways to go. Besides, why didn't Nader repair the Green Party these past 8 years and why didn't he and Mckinney decide to do a joint ticket. A Nadar/Mckinney ticket would have been MORE POWERFUL than a Nadar/Gonzalas or even a Nadar/LaDuke ticket.
oh sure Nebraska Nathan let's continue finding excuses to keep voting for Obama or McCain. Whatever his misgivings, Nader is still a much superior choice than either corporate mobster.
So what if Congress of both parties would show strong opposition to President Nader? That would be in fact excellent.
Your 'baby steps' mentality is what will get us nowhere, you're the problem.
He's on your side tetti. Just read and listen for once. You are the problem and the reason third parties currently never get anywhere. CD is just full of energy, but you lefties just sit and spin endlessly in loops and never get anywhere. You just all talk/shout/swear at once and absolutely refuse to work with anyone who doesn't have your narrow views. But you all have different views. That's your problem.
I live in a state where third parties traditionally have been strong in the past. One party was called the "Farmer Labor Party" It had three governors and 4 US Senators. My grandfather was involved in it, so it's not that far in the past. Third parties can work.
By the way, is "Nader" your party name? Probably need a party name, eh? Just saying.
"Whatever his misgivings, Nader is still a much superior choice than either corporate mobster."
Apparently, you didn't even read my previous reply or you would have actually understand that I admire Nader and his policy positions. However, running a one man show just isn't going to happen.
"So what if Congress of both parties would show strong opposition to President Nader? That would be in fact excellent."
True. However, you claim that your goal of electing Nader to office is to make a big difference. However, the system is RIGGED at all levels and venues against him. Congress will render him irrelevant and will most likely bring up false charges and frame Nader as guilty and impeach and remove him from office. He needs more members in Congress who are actually Independents like him. Get that through your brain damaged skull !
"Your 'baby steps' mentality is what will get us nowhere, you're the problem."
Call it what you want but if you had even bothered to actually study history, you would have found out that these two parties came to power from ground zero up. Yes, it takes time but Nader had 8 years to stay in the Green Party and FIX and UNITE it but HE DIDN'T and now he and Cynthia are running two tickets. How is that supposed to help?
If we can agree on a definition of God as an omnipotent being who eats his children, then we might as well spare ourselves this death of a thousand cuts and declare that George Bush is in fact, by dint of seven years of nonstop self-anointing, God Himself. We should be ready-to-eat by election day, tenderized by humiliation, eviscerated by war and stuffed full of poison loans. Yummy.
What a bunch of intellectualizing Wussies you all are... You need to ACT!!!
"Crack open a cynic and you will find an angry idealist!"
I know you aren't there, Sam. A real man of action would be stomping off down the road toward Washington, brandishing his pitchfork and looking for brokers to punch in the nose, not sitting at your computer wasting a Sunday afternoon scolding Wussies. The meltdown does present a fairly complicated problem - over my head actually. Why don't you take charge? Tell us what to do.
Well, thank God the economy is fundamentally strong, you know the American worker.
We are as strong as mules, we have to be , we are going to carry the the national debt from two illegal wars, a fear mongering military industrial complex national security crisis, and now wall street.
But , we don't have the money for a national health care system which we all will need to stay as healthy as possible,we have to go to work every day to pay this debt. For who knows how many years.
We don't have the money for social security, but that's OK , all our retired folks need to go back to work full time and get off social security, we will need the tax money.
Gees , I almost forgot, now all we need is for our government to magically create all the low paying jobs needed to put everyone back to work, so we can collect the tax money to pay this debt.
The Right wing neoconservative lunatic greed mister fringe have done what they wanted since good old Ron Reagen. Since I started working full time at age 21 1981, I have seen wages stay flat, benefits go away, health care costs go through the roof and average American credit card debt got to 10,000 per card.
Why , because that's what the real movers and shakers who run this country want, the Federal Reserve.
You know, The Fed-- N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England, Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard Brothers - Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co ,Morgan Stanley Co,Schroder Bank, Lehman Brothers N.Y , Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
On and On.
www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html
Credit card interest rates are nothing but legal loan sharking. The Fed.
Bad loans to the general public. The Fed.
Control of printing money, not on the gold standard. The Fed.
Its not our country folks, it hasn't been since 1913, when we turned over the constitutional controls of our money to the FED.A private global banking system.
So, surprise, we had to bail out the FED players. Whats funny is, in order to do it, we will have to borrow the money from, Guess who , THE FED.
Are you sick yet? Whats the definition of insanity?
How do you create a One World Order and One World currency?
Make all paper money worthless, and create a computer credit system for banking.
You make think that last statement is crazy, but because of the boom in computer technology and the internet, we are now ready for the financial meltdown of the existing money system.
Debit and credit cards will be our money.
E pluribus unum is a motto found on the Great Seal of the United States, along with Annuit cœptis and Novus ordo seclorum, and adopted by an Act of Congress ..
E Pluribus unum : Annuit coeptis : Novus ordo seclorum
Out of many, one: smile upon beginnings : New Order of the Ages
Is this the beginning for a NEW AMERICA.
Hold don to your Guns.
BornFreeMen
Bail *me* out for once. I can name a dozen ways to do that.
Alan MacDonald
Business Week (friggin Buisness Week) has written this list of major, troubling, and totally unanswered questions, the first of which concerns Paulson's un-Constitutional power and deception about buying up the Hedge Fund whores' valueless derivatives:
http://blogs.businessweek.com/election/2008/blog/archives/2008/09/as_congressiona.html
Progressiveparty, as someone who has read Naomi Klein's book I too see this as an opportunity for the implementation of the Shock Doctrine. It's a little different because what has happened is that business got in to trouble and now government will bail out, which will predictably get the government in to trouble--the typical entre for Shock Doctrine tactics--and the World bank and the IMF will recommend Friedmanism style shocks. This shouldn't work at all--after all the author of this mess was people who adhered to the gospel of the free market. But not taking ANY bets.
Ding, ding... The shock doctrine in the U.S. will finally make for the neo-cons dream of simultaneously "making the (public sector) government small enough to drown in the bathtub," and paying their financier class buddies billions of dollars for making bad decisions in the process and all for a lie, for the financial system won't fail here is why.
From my post at digg.com:
""And yeah I am willing to see what happens if these financial institutions fail, even though I am lefty I suspect the Ron Paul people are right that all it would do is slow inflation, and yes I do have reasons. My reasons are that all ISVs, naked short selling, currency derivatives do is generate profits stored as digits inside a computer WITHOUT expanding actual productive activity, i.e. they are another circuitous way of expanding the money supply. So all letting these institutions that have been pushing speculative profits fail would do is reduce the overall over inflated money supply, it would NOT reduce our actual productive capability, and thus I don't think it would have to lead to a crisis. There is something really systemically wrong when we have a derivatives market valued at 370 TRILLION that is over ten times the size of the actual productive economy. This is just intellectual pyramid scheme IMO.
http://www.economywatch.com/market/derivative-mark ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/lehman_specialsession_d ...
All this 800 billion dollar bailout does IMO is reroutes public money into the hands of the neo-cons speculator billionaire friends to gut funding our public institutions in America's version of "Disaster Capitalism." This is just a backhanded to get Grover Norquist's ideal of getting the government small enough "to drown in the bathtub" while simultaneously rewarding the bad judgment of the neo-cons criminal financier class speculator friends, don't let them get away with it."
http://digg.com/business_finance/Taxpayers_Mad_As_Hell_And_Not_Going_to_Take_This_Anymore?t=19009982#c...
They weren't allowed to privatize Social Security so they socialized Wall Street. A brilliant, end-of-term heist, in broad daylight.
I believe that it will be THIS tax year that I deduct the entire FICA tax as "other paid taxes" as it is clear to me that they have no intention of honoring the Social Security contract.
The Bush administration and the free market adherents are attempting to sidetrack the real discussion of how we arrived at this financial debacle. The problem is, as it was in 1929, the absence of regulation. This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs.
Those who drove their companies into the ground made billions of dollars from that action. Lehman paid out over 3 billion dollars in bonuses to its employees and the total amount of such bonus payments, industry wide, approaches 85 billion. Now they ask you the taxpayer to foot the bill for shoddy and quasi legal business practices that were profitable and inevitably disasterous. Where is the call for those who took the risk to shoulder the burden?
Increasing the debt on every taxpayer, on the children and the grandchildren of today's taxpayer is a travesty and both candidates for the office of the presidency should be made to give a detailed explanation of what it is they intend to do about this situation. For one candidate who has already covered this ground, and did so before the crash of these speculators companies see votenader.org.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
If "the taxpayers" knew the numbers, they'd be rioting in the streets.
Every $1 trillion "our" government "spends" to "save" their friends translates to $8000 per taxpayer (rounded up, based on 130 million taxpayers. Ignore the 'per citizen" numbers - non-taxpayers are not relevant.)
So far, just this year, "our" government has promised their friends over $3 trillion of taxpayer money (that we actually know of) in return for, what everyone from the NYT to the WSJ refers to as "toxic assets."
That's $24,000 per taxpayer, whose average income is $32,000/year - leaving the average taxpayer with a net-of-gross of $8000K for 08. Minus taxes at, say, a medium 25% (of $32K=$7000,) and, this year, the average taxpayer will take home an astounding $1000, or about 80 bucks a month. (And a handful of toxic assets!)
How many taxpayers voted to give AIG, Fannie, Fredie, and the rest basically their entire year's earnings as a thank you for robbing us blind?
Of course, add in another $8K for the Pentagon ($1 trillion budget,) another $8K for Iraq/Afghanistan ($1 trillion spent so far,) and another $24K to cover the $3 trillion 08 Fed budget...
And every taxpayer is on the hook - this year only, remember - for at least $64,000 apiece, or twice the average income.
Toss in each taxpayer's share of the National Debt, now approaching $10 trillion, or another $80,000 per tp... for a total of $144,000, or nearly 5 years worth of the average taxpayer's income.
These are the real, raw painful numbers that need to be shouted to every sucker - er, I mean taxpayer - in America RIGHT NOW. Maybe, just maybe, We The People will wake the f**k up and, you know, revolt or something...
The bailout without huge safeguards for regular people is unacceptable. This is all part of their "shock doctrine" tactics and the timing, just months before losing power, feels suspicious to me.
Yes, I would say it feels suspicious. In the sense that standing in front of a firing squad feels suspicious.
i like that...................it made me laugh.
Hornblower recently read an essay written shortly after the Great Depression. Oddly, all the issues were similar to what we face today with a few exceptions. At that time the US government itself was not 10.4 Trillion Dollars in debt and we didn't really have a global economy. We now have rising prices, but only because of the global demand for oil. The situation is a mess, but allowing the Bush administration to rip off the country and its future one last time is ludicrous. The banks may be helped, but in return they will not help the country. Nothing will be fixed, people will still not have employment, income, health care or a practical energy policy. Nor will more people be able to buy a house. The housing and construction industry will still be in the tank. What will change is that the country's debt will go up ten percent or more. One economist recently stated that the bad HOUSING debt is closer to 2 Trillion. Now, what about the bad debt in credit cards, auto loans, etc. In order to attract investors for the additional debt, interest rates will have to rise dramatically. That certainly will not american businesses. No, I don't think a half cocked bailout to help the affluent is the answer.
If you continue to pay taxes after this "bail out" and all the other mis-used tax dollars spent for wars and enriching the rich, don't bitch and whine as a comment to this article!
It is TIME FOR A TAX STRIKE NOW! If you let the government/ I.R.S. programmed FEAR continue to make you roll over for the I.R.S. then you are creating your own short-of-hard-earned-money situation and supporting BAD decisions on how it is spent.
Cut off the dragon's head by closing your wallet. STOP automatic withdrawal from your paychecks. TAKE ACTION! The more who begin to stop bitching THEN stop paying, the more it will catch on.
How much tax did you pay last year? Google Rupert Murdoch's taxes and a few others and get angry! Get VERY angry!!!
"Crack open a cynic and you will find an angry idealist!"