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'Taxpayer Ripoff': Many Economists Skeptical of Bailout
Many of the same economists and opinion-makers who'd provided a bipartisan sheen of consensus to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's
previous moves have quickly begun casting doubts on the wisdom of a
policy that would allow Treasury to purchase without oversight hundreds
of billions of dollars of difficult-to-price assets from financial
institutions.
Under the proposal, Paulson would not have to report to Congress until
December, and the only safeguard for taxpayers was a provision that the
“Secretary shall take into consideration means for — (1) providing
stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking
system; and (2) protecting the taxpayer.”
Skepticism toward the plan reflected more than the predictable desires
of the left to spread the wealth to Main Street or of the right to
reject government bailouts, although those sentiments were also
expressed.
"We need to take a bold move. In that sense I think Paulson is right,"
Luigi Zingales, a Professor at the University of Chicago School of
Business who wrote a widely circulated short essay titled "Why Paulson is Wrong,” told Politico.
Zingales fears that the Treasury bailout would effectively turn the
entire financial sector into a Government Sponsored Enterprise,
complete with the same murkiness and moral hazard that sunk Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
“It might achieve the final outcome, but it will do so at an enormous
cost," he said. "All the troubles we’ve seen with Fannie and Freddie
would be seen again and again across the entire financial sector."
President Bush is “asking for a huge amount of power,” said Nouriel Roubini, an economist at New York University who was among the first to predict the crisis. “He's saying, ‘Trust me, I'm going to do it right if you give me absolute control.' This is not a monarchy.” (Roubini told the New York Times that despite these concerns, he also thought the plan could help stave off a recession.)
Paul Krugman, the Princeton University economist and liberal columnist for The New York Times who had until now been cautiously supportive of Paulson's and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s efforts to prop up the system, wrote that the new plan would be a taxpayer rip-off. “I hate to say this, but looking at the plan as leaked, I have to say no deal,” he wrote on his blog at 4:46 p.m. Saturday. “Not unless Treasury explains, very clearly, why this is supposed to work, other than through having taxpayers pay premium prices for lousy assets.”
Yves Smith, a longtime banker and contributor to the influential
finance blog Naked Capitalism, published an angry post there titled, "Why You Should Hate The Treasury Bailout Proposal":
"Given that continuing to buy U.S.
assets will come under increasingly harsh scrutiny overseas, the U.S.
needs to bend over backwards to devise a plan that at least looks
credible in terms of directing the funds that come from taxpayers and
lenders to their highest and best uses and implementing reforms that
will restore active and prudent oversight of financial firms," she
wrote. "The administration's demand for a free pass, even if Congress
unwisely goes along, is likely to backfire with our foreign creditors."
Gregory Mankiw, a professor at Harvard University and a former chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers who was the economic guru for Mitt Romney's campaign, favorably linked to Smith's post under the headline "A Blank Check"
and approvingly quoted a correspondent who wrote, "Has more money ever
been given with fewer restrictions on how it is used? Ever?"
Sebastian Mallaby, the center-right economic columnist for The Washington Post and scholar of the modern financial system, was equally dubious. “The plan is being marketed under false pretenses," he wrote in his Sunday column, rejecting comparisons of the plan to the Resolution Trust Corporation,
which the government formed in response to the savings and loan crisis
to purchase and sell off the bad loans made by bankrupted thrifts.
“The administration proposes to buy up bad loans before the lenders go
bust,” Mallaby noted, keeping the banks alive but doing little to solve
the problem infecting the markets. “Bad loans are weighing down the
financial system precisely because private-sector experts can't
determine their worth. The government would have no better handle on
the problem.”
Justin Fox, Time magazine's top financial writer and columnist, also worried about the lack of an upside for the taxpayer. "What I still can't figure out is how Treasury hopes to structure the bailout so there's at least a chance of getting a fair return on that risk-taking," he wrote on his blog.
"How on earth will these things be priced?" Portfolio's Felix Salmon asked about the bad debt Paulson plans to purchase. He also pointed out that Treasury would need to stock its office with bond-trading professionals. "All we know so far is that it's going to be set up as a reverse auction, but that raises more questions than it answers."
One notable proponent of the plan was The Financial Times' unsigned Lex column, which acknowledged the lack of oversight but mostly praised the plan:
"This bailout is necessary and the bill should be pushed through quickly. … Nor is the package necessarily a disaster for the taxpayer or the U.S. dollar. If the Treasury buys assets well, and confidence is restored, there is [a] chance that Mr. Paulson could win fund manager of the year."
Zingales, though, writes in "Why Paulson Is Wrong" that "For somebody like me who believes strongly in the free market system, the most serious risk of the current situation is that the interest of a few financiers will undermine the fundamental workings of the capitalist system. The time has come to save capitalism from the capitalists."



92 Comments so far
Show AllIf you continue to pay taxes after this "bail out" and all the other mis-used tax dollars spent for wars and enriching the rich, don't bitch and whine as a comment to this article!
It is TIME FOR A TAX STRIKE NOW! If you let the government/ I.R.S. programmed FEAR continue to make you roll over for the I.R.S. then you are creating your own short-of-hard-earned-money situation and supporting BAD decisions on how it is spent.
Cut off the dragon's head by closing your wallet. STOP automatic withdrawal from your paychecks. TAKE ACTION! The more who begin to stop bitching THEN stop paying, the more it will catch on.
How much tax did you pay last year? Google Rupert Murdoch's taxes and a few others and get angry! Get VERY angry!!!
"Crack open a cynic and you will find an angry idealist!"
Hornblower recently read an essay written shortly after the Great Depression. Oddly, all the issues were similar to what we face today with a few exceptions. At that time the US government itself was not 10.4 Trillion Dollars in debt and we didn't really have a global economy. We now have rising prices, but only because of the global demand for oil. The situation is a mess, but allowing the Bush administration to rip off the country and its future one last time is ludicrous. The banks may be helped, but in return they will not help the country. Nothing will be fixed, people will still not have employment, income, health care or a practical energy policy. Nor will more people be able to buy a house. The housing and construction industry will still be in the tank. What will change is that the country's debt will go up ten percent or more. One economist recently stated that the bad HOUSING debt is closer to 2 Trillion. Now, what about the bad debt in credit cards, auto loans, etc. In order to attract investors for the additional debt, interest rates will have to rise dramatically. That certainly will not american businesses. No, I don't think a half cocked bailout to help the affluent is the answer.
The bailout without huge safeguards for regular people is unacceptable. This is all part of their "shock doctrine" tactics and the timing, just months before losing power, feels suspicious to me.
Yes, I would say it feels suspicious. In the sense that standing in front of a firing squad feels suspicious.
i like that...................it made me laugh.
If "the taxpayers" knew the numbers, they'd be rioting in the streets.
Every $1 trillion "our" government "spends" to "save" their friends translates to $8000 per taxpayer (rounded up, based on 130 million taxpayers. Ignore the 'per citizen" numbers - non-taxpayers are not relevant.)
So far, just this year, "our" government has promised their friends over $3 trillion of taxpayer money (that we actually know of) in return for, what everyone from the NYT to the WSJ refers to as "toxic assets."
That's $24,000 per taxpayer, whose average income is $32,000/year - leaving the average taxpayer with a net-of-gross of $8000K for 08. Minus taxes at, say, a medium 25% (of $32K=$7000,) and, this year, the average taxpayer will take home an astounding $1000, or about 80 bucks a month. (And a handful of toxic assets!)
How many taxpayers voted to give AIG, Fannie, Fredie, and the rest basically their entire year's earnings as a thank you for robbing us blind?
Of course, add in another $8K for the Pentagon ($1 trillion budget,) another $8K for Iraq/Afghanistan ($1 trillion spent so far,) and another $24K to cover the $3 trillion 08 Fed budget...
And every taxpayer is on the hook - this year only, remember - for at least $64,000 apiece, or twice the average income.
Toss in each taxpayer's share of the National Debt, now approaching $10 trillion, or another $80,000 per tp... for a total of $144,000, or nearly 5 years worth of the average taxpayer's income.
These are the real, raw painful numbers that need to be shouted to every sucker - er, I mean taxpayer - in America RIGHT NOW. Maybe, just maybe, We The People will wake the f**k up and, you know, revolt or something...
The Bush administration and the free market adherents are attempting to sidetrack the real discussion of how we arrived at this financial debacle. The problem is, as it was in 1929, the absence of regulation. This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs.
Those who drove their companies into the ground made billions of dollars from that action. Lehman paid out over 3 billion dollars in bonuses to its employees and the total amount of such bonus payments, industry wide, approaches 85 billion. Now they ask you the taxpayer to foot the bill for shoddy and quasi legal business practices that were profitable and inevitably disasterous. Where is the call for those who took the risk to shoulder the burden?
Increasing the debt on every taxpayer, on the children and the grandchildren of today's taxpayer is a travesty and both candidates for the office of the presidency should be made to give a detailed explanation of what it is they intend to do about this situation. For one candidate who has already covered this ground, and did so before the crash of these speculators companies see votenader.org.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
They weren't allowed to privatize Social Security so they socialized Wall Street. A brilliant, end-of-term heist, in broad daylight.
I believe that it will be THIS tax year that I deduct the entire FICA tax as "other paid taxes" as it is clear to me that they have no intention of honoring the Social Security contract.
Progressiveparty, as someone who has read Naomi Klein's book I too see this as an opportunity for the implementation of the Shock Doctrine. It's a little different because what has happened is that business got in to trouble and now government will bail out, which will predictably get the government in to trouble--the typical entre for Shock Doctrine tactics--and the World bank and the IMF will recommend Friedmanism style shocks. This shouldn't work at all--after all the author of this mess was people who adhered to the gospel of the free market. But not taking ANY bets.
Ding, ding... The shock doctrine in the U.S. will finally make for the neo-cons dream of simultaneously "making the (public sector) government small enough to drown in the bathtub," and paying their financier class buddies billions of dollars for making bad decisions in the process and all for a lie, for the financial system won't fail here is why.
From my post at digg.com:
""And yeah I am willing to see what happens if these financial institutions fail, even though I am lefty I suspect the Ron Paul people are right that all it would do is slow inflation, and yes I do have reasons. My reasons are that all ISVs, naked short selling, currency derivatives do is generate profits stored as digits inside a computer WITHOUT expanding actual productive activity, i.e. they are another circuitous way of expanding the money supply. So all letting these institutions that have been pushing speculative profits fail would do is reduce the overall over inflated money supply, it would NOT reduce our actual productive capability, and thus I don't think it would have to lead to a crisis. There is something really systemically wrong when we have a derivatives market valued at 370 TRILLION that is over ten times the size of the actual productive economy. This is just intellectual pyramid scheme IMO.
http://www.economywatch.com/market/derivative-mark ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/lehman_specialsession_d ...
All this 800 billion dollar bailout does IMO is reroutes public money into the hands of the neo-cons speculator billionaire friends to gut funding our public institutions in America's version of "Disaster Capitalism." This is just a backhanded to get Grover Norquist's ideal of getting the government small enough "to drown in the bathtub" while simultaneously rewarding the bad judgment of the neo-cons criminal financier class speculator friends, don't let them get away with it."
http://digg.com/business_finance/Taxpayers_Mad_As_Hell_And_Not_Going_to_Take_This_Anymore?t=19009982#c19046381
Alan MacDonald
Business Week (friggin Buisness Week) has written this list of major, troubling, and totally unanswered questions, the first of which concerns Paulson's un-Constitutional power and deception about buying up the Hedge Fund whores' valueless derivatives:
http://blogs.businessweek.com/election/2008/blog/archives/2008/09/as_congressiona.html
Bail *me* out for once. I can name a dozen ways to do that.
Well, thank God the economy is fundamentally strong, you know the American worker.
We are as strong as mules, we have to be , we are going to carry the the national debt from two illegal wars, a fear mongering military industrial complex national security crisis, and now wall street.
But , we don't have the money for a national health care system which we all will need to stay as healthy as possible,we have to go to work every day to pay this debt. For who knows how many years.
We don't have the money for social security, but that's OK , all our retired folks need to go back to work full time and get off social security, we will need the tax money.
Gees , I almost forgot, now all we need is for our government to magically create all the low paying jobs needed to put everyone back to work, so we can collect the tax money to pay this debt.
The Right wing neoconservative lunatic greed mister fringe have done what they wanted since good old Ron Reagen. Since I started working full time at age 21 1981, I have seen wages stay flat, benefits go away, health care costs go through the roof and average American credit card debt got to 10,000 per card.
Why , because that's what the real movers and shakers who run this country want, the Federal Reserve.
You know, The Fed-- N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England, Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard Brothers - Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co ,Morgan Stanley Co,Schroder Bank, Lehman Brothers N.Y , Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
On and On.
www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html
Credit card interest rates are nothing but legal loan sharking. The Fed.
Bad loans to the general public. The Fed.
Control of printing money, not on the gold standard. The Fed.
Its not our country folks, it hasn't been since 1913, when we turned over the constitutional controls of our money to the FED.A private global banking system.
So, surprise, we had to bail out the FED players. Whats funny is, in order to do it, we will have to borrow the money from, Guess who , THE FED.
Are you sick yet? Whats the definition of insanity?
How do you create a One World Order and One World currency?
Make all paper money worthless, and create a computer credit system for banking.
You make think that last statement is crazy, but because of the boom in computer technology and the internet, we are now ready for the financial meltdown of the existing money system.
Debit and credit cards will be our money.
E pluribus unum is a motto found on the Great Seal of the United States, along with Annuit cœptis and Novus ordo seclorum, and adopted by an Act of Congress ..
E Pluribus unum : Annuit coeptis : Novus ordo seclorum
Out of many, one: smile upon beginnings : New Order of the Ages
Is this the beginning for a NEW AMERICA.
Hold don to your Guns.
BornFreeMen
What a bunch of intellectualizing Wussies you all are... You need to ACT!!!
"Crack open a cynic and you will find an angry idealist!"
I know you aren't there, Sam. A real man of action would be stomping off down the road toward Washington, brandishing his pitchfork and looking for brokers to punch in the nose, not sitting at your computer wasting a Sunday afternoon scolding Wussies. The meltdown does present a fairly complicated problem - over my head actually. Why don't you take charge? Tell us what to do.
If we can agree on a definition of God as an omnipotent being who eats his children, then we might as well spare ourselves this death of a thousand cuts and declare that George Bush is in fact, by dint of seven years of nonstop self-anointing, God Himself. We should be ready-to-eat by election day, tenderized by humiliation, eviscerated by war and stuffed full of poison loans. Yummy.
Oh goody let's replace the Bush/Cheney/Mccain gang with Obama bin Biden gang, the candidates of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Their former managers are now economic advisers to Obama's campaign.
Obama, the candidate of gloom and doom (sorry, hope and change) is close to raising $400 million for his campaign. Let's replace Republicans with Democrats, who kept buying bullets for Bush the serial killer for 8 years.
When will you feeble-minded voters ever learn?
Nader's great and all but you still have Congress of both parties who will show their strong opposition and render him irrelevant and with the help of their corporate media, they'll bring false charges against Nader and the votes to impeach and convict are right there. You need to reform Congress and the media FIRST before you can expect Nader to be relevant let alone save America. Besides, even in FDR's time, he faced strong opposition and even assassination attempts. Nader isn't even going to stand a chance what with the current system more powerful, destructive, and rigged against him or for that matter any 3rd party. You gotta long ways to go. Besides, why didn't Nader repair the Green Party these past 8 years and why didn't he and Mckinney decide to do a joint ticket. A Nadar/Mckinney ticket would have been MORE POWERFUL than a Nadar/Gonzalas or even a Nadar/LaDuke ticket.
oh sure Nebraska Nathan let's continue finding excuses to keep voting for Obama or McCain. Whatever his misgivings, Nader is still a much superior choice than either corporate mobster.
So what if Congress of both parties would show strong opposition to President Nader? That would be in fact excellent.
Your 'baby steps' mentality is what will get us nowhere, you're the problem.
"Whatever his misgivings, Nader is still a much superior choice than either corporate mobster."
Apparently, you didn't even read my previous reply or you would have actually understand that I admire Nader and his policy positions. However, running a one man show just isn't going to happen.
"So what if Congress of both parties would show strong opposition to President Nader? That would be in fact excellent."
True. However, you claim that your goal of electing Nader to office is to make a big difference. However, the system is RIGGED at all levels and venues against him. Congress will render him irrelevant and will most likely bring up false charges and frame Nader as guilty and impeach and remove him from office. He needs more members in Congress who are actually Independents like him. Get that through your brain damaged skull !
"Your 'baby steps' mentality is what will get us nowhere, you're the problem."
Call it what you want but if you had even bothered to actually study history, you would have found out that these two parties came to power from ground zero up. Yes, it takes time but Nader had 8 years to stay in the Green Party and FIX and UNITE it but HE DIDN'T and now he and Cynthia are running two tickets. How is that supposed to help?
He's on your side tetti. Just read and listen for once. You are the problem and the reason third parties currently never get anywhere. CD is just full of energy, but you lefties just sit and spin endlessly in loops and never get anywhere. You just all talk/shout/swear at once and absolutely refuse to work with anyone who doesn't have your narrow views. But you all have different views. That's your problem.
I live in a state where third parties traditionally have been strong in the past. One party was called the "Farmer Labor Party" It had three governors and 4 US Senators. My grandfather was involved in it, so it's not that far in the past. Third parties can work.
By the way, is "Nader" your party name? Probably need a party name, eh? Just saying.
ardee - "This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs."
The real person responsible for this mess is Bill Clinton, since he was the one who repealed the Glass-Steagall Law.
It's ironic that Obama would try and show his competence on the economy by surrounding himself with Robert Rubin and the other neo-liberal architects of this crisis.
Presidents (prior to the current unelected Resident, anyway) can not repeal laws.
Hello? Clue?
Free,
My blaming Reagan does not exclude others from culpability of course. It notes only that Reagan sold the idea of government incompetence and blundering to the American public, from which stems all deregulation that has led us to this point.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Before the democrates agree to this proposal they should insist on strict limits on the executive compensation for every firm that uses the federal (MY) loan!
SLOW AND DIRTY
Since this is the Fall Season and Americans tend to communicate this time of year in football metaphors, I propose the following thought. Economic disaster in on our one yard line and our team in Congress is equivocating, masking, weakening, posturing, flat out lying, and about to call a play that will guarantee a win for disaster.
Congress is about to allow the same leadership that got us into this disaster to call the play to get us out of it. A failed leadership will allow a “Quick and Clean” bailout of the banks and Wall Street, and mask it as “in the best interests of the people.” Since when in the last twenty or thirty years has Congress given any thought to the best interests of the American People? Congress is seeking the same old path of least resistance to the detriment of the American People. That is failed policy.
THE PROBLEM IS A "STRUCTURAL PROBLEM." The economic policies of the last thirty years have rendered the middle middle class broke and cast the lower economic classes into near economic destitution.
NAFTA drove millions of good paying American jobs to other countries and had the effect of sharply driving down incomes without correspondingly driving down prices as was promised by its proponents.
The Bush Administration, through propaganda lies and coercion, coupled with a weak and compliant Congress forced America into a three trillion dollar elective war.
The Bush Administration in concert with a compliant Congress cut taxes for the wealthy, worsening the tax burden on the middle class.
The “Trickle Down Theory,” proved false and instead launched a new Guilded Age.
Worker’s incomes did not keep up with increases in worker productivity further dampening the middle class, and further proving the “Trickle Down Theory,” as false.
Business deregulation led to unbridled greed and massive unearned profits based upon falsification of documents and accounting irregularities that became so prevalent as to be chaotic and unknowable.
Corporations cut good paying jobs to maintain and increase their stock prices resulting in good investor and management incomes at the expense of the middle class worker.
It becomes very easy to see what led to the destruction to the economic middle class and why this problem is structural and not cyclical. The middle class is broke and cannot lead us out of this recession through consumer spending.
If Congress allows a quick and clean bailout of Wall Street it will fail. With a declining dollar and growing inflation the middle class will also begin increasingly defaulting on credit card debt. What do we do then? Do we bail out the Banks again and once again be told that it must be done because the consequences of not doing so will be worse for people? A Wall Street bailout is a failed policy and is about to be approved by Congress.
SLOW AND DIRTY IS BETTER THAN QUICK AND CLEAN.
It is obvious that only a comprehensive overhaul of economic policies will bring a healthy balance back to the economy. Since Trickle Down Economics has PROVEN to be false the answer lies in comprehensive economic policy change and cash infusion from the bottom up. Rescuing those families in economic distress who are losing their homes is job number one.
The Republicans are screaming for a bail out while at the same time playing the worst form of politics, blaming the victim. They are attempting to divide people by demonizing the victims. Anyone who stoops that low needs to be openly referred to as Un-American and striped of any power or influence that they have in Congress or in Government. Deliberately hurting American families for political and economic gain in the middle of a crisis is devilish.
SLOW AND DIRTY is better precisely because it will create temporary hardship in the economy which will keep Congressional feet to the fire. Only in a serious and continuing crisis will Congress act on behalf of the people. There is no other choice. It’s time for a come to Jesus meeting on Capitol Hill with no half measures , no excuses, and no rationalizations.
The crowd is roaring DEFENSE but the Congress is not listening. Make them listen NOW!
Stone September 21st, 2008 6:31 pm
"Since Trickle Down Economics has PROVEN to be false the answer lies in comprehensive economic policy change and cash infusion from the bottom up. Rescuing those families in economic distress who are losing their homes is job number one."
This would also bail out Wall Street, the right way, as long as it was accompanied with reregulation, stringent oversight, and a lot of rolling heads (And I don't necessarily mean that figuratively)
Lobo Gris
If I had 3 investments, and one of those did terribly this year, under the old ways of taxes, I would simply subtract that loss from my overall profits I made on all 3 investments. I don't mind the loss too much because it brought my overall income down. (therefore less tax)
So how much ya wanna bet that JP Morgan will somehow subtract BearStearns from their profits this year? Then you get to the fun part...and why the highest tax brackets have been made as low as possible. You really don't reap your benefits until the taxes are done...next year after the bailout dust has settled.
Ask any small businessperson, and they will tell you 'find all the deductions you can' because if you can't prove expenses--you will pay more tax. All done open and above board according to the latest rules.
I figure all these bailouts, have their benefit if not up front, then on the tax side. Am I wrong?
wild ;)
Speaking of bailouts & taxes, as I warned in previous post, now I would like to say: "I told ya so".
Now that the big boys have time to digest, most of the $700b swindle, You might want to checkout a few timely reports:
"The tax man cometh, giveth" Marine Cole 10/12/08
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081012/REG/810109952
"How IRS breaks could boost bank bailout tab" Matthew Scott 11/02/08
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081102/REG/311039969/1028
wild;)
Yes you nailed it well.
___ … its not what you make that counts, but
___ what you keep ( after taxes ) that matters most
Namaste
thanks for the recognition, I'll send ya smilllllleeeeeesss ;) and not be disheartened, as we watch the circus!! Could ya pass the popcorn?
wild;)
Once upon a time, people loved the circus to see the improbable, unbelievable, and impossible. And it was a great and powerful thing to grow our minds and feelings -- and find joy in amazing acceptance.
Similarly, once we :
(1.) Learn to thrill and enjoy in the contrasts and stimulation ( of life's deep variety ) that allow us to choose differently ( expressing our own unique preferences ), and
(2.) No longer blame everything negative in our own lives upon what we see externally that we don't like in others
We'll much better enjoy the show ( and yes, please do pass the pop corn ) !
Personal responsibility is about owning one's own choices of thinking and feeling, which thereby determines how the show progresses for us. We are ( ultimately ) the only creators of our own realities -- and isn't it funny how often we can find similar realities in people who are of similar "like" minds
Namaste
crunch, crunch
wild;)
… being self referential,
___ takes everything to the next level of the
___ infinite reflections shown in the house of mirrors
Namaste
Once upon a time, people loved the circus to see the improbable, unbelievable, and impossible. And it was a great and powerful thing to grow our minds and feelings -- and find joy in amazing acceptance.
Similarly, once we :
(1.) Learn to thrill and enjoy in the contrasts and stimulation ( of life's deep variety ) that allow us to choose differently ( expressing our own unique preferences ), and
(2.) No longer blame everything negative in our own lives upon what we see externally that we don't like in others
We'll much better enjoy the show ( and yes, please do pass the pop corn ) !
Personal responsibility is about owning one's own choices of thinking and feeling, which thereby determines how the show progresses for us. We are ( ultimately ) the only creators of our own realities -- and isn't it funny how often we can find similar realities in people who are of similar "like" minds
Namaste
crunch, crunch....is there an echo in here?
wild;)
I think that the only solution to this carefully planned catastrophy is to
Freeze George and Dick in Carbonite and hang them in the Capitol Rotunda
as Horrible Examples for future lawmakers.
I like it. Because it's going to take decades for historians to measure the full extent of the destruction wrought by these two. So then one day, when all the facts are neatly summarized, they can be released from the carbonite to face trial in front of an enlightened world.
It amazes me how so many people idly stand by and watch the government yet again commit robbery in plain daylight. This is a scam and it was engineered by the Bush Admin., Fed, Treasury, Republicans, Democrats, and Wall Street. I found it interesting to watch politicians on many of the political talkshows this morning look troubled, saying there "was ten to fifteen seconds of silence" after Paulson presented his case. Are you sure that was not ten to fifteen seconds of hilarious laughter? Friday, I sent a scathing and ascerbic letter to Paulson accusing him of helping corroborate this scam. The nerve these people have is astonishing. And once again, just like their phony case for going to war, they are making a phony case to defraud the public out of hundreds of billions, if not trillions (remember no one really knows how much these junk loans really are - some estimates are in the $50-$60 trillion range) of dollars. This is by far the most outrageous fraudulent scam ever perpretrated by the government. So why in the hell are people still voting for Obama and McCain, who are not the solution, but part of the problem? Why is no one making the case that the CEOs of these companies should go to jail? No, instead Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid want legislation limiting the salaries these CEOs receive. Oooh, that is gonna hurt. So John Thain has to give up eating caviar one day per year. Are these people for real? Are they serious? Give me a f*cking break! Why would anyone want to vote for these people??? If you want to send a message, do not vote for Republicans and Democrats, and demand that these CEOs be frog-marched to jail!!
Well, if you're looking for a 3rd party presidency to do the magic,
1. It won't come.
2. Even if did, you still have Congress of both parties in opposition.
You're going to need to start local and build it up from there. In addition, we the people will have to unite against the corporate, military, and religious elites because even in FDR's time, they were very powerful despite labor unity and the Great Depression. In fact, assassination attempts were plotted against FDR. 3rd party presidencies won't last long because both parties will abuse their powers to impeach and remove them from office even though the charges will be false and the corporate media will remain anti-3rd-party.
We need to reform both Congress and the media big time first.
Nebraska Nathan September 21st, 2008 7:53 pm
Well, if you're looking for a 3rd party presidency to do the magic,
"1. It won't come.
2. Even if did, you still have Congress of both parties in opposition."
If we had an electorate angry enough to elect a third party president it would probably include an electorate angry enough to turn out of office most of the House and almost a third of the Senate at the same time. The two parties of the duopoly would be shaking in their boots so bad that the ones left would be falling all over each other trying to do the will of the people and take care of the poor and what's left of the middle class. If not, there is always another election in two years.
Lobo Gris
That's what I'm trying to get at. Unfortuntely, most people in this forum, while I understand that they're angry with Obama for betraying them and would prefer Nader, have to realize that Nader has nowhere to go even if he does make it to the White House, a very high improbability. The system is currently well-entrenched against folks like him. The system must be reformed inside and out if a Nader candidacy is going to fundamentally change things.
Un fortunately what you say, though containing the germ of reality also contains the call for the status quo. As long as we the people continue to vote for a party and a candidate that owes allegiance to the money and not to the people the sick and sordid system continues.
I fully appreciate any efforts from loyal democrats to reform their party, go at it! But I am neither a loyal democrat nor a waster of my vote. I will vote for Ralph Nader and do so as a message to the entrenched majority. As more and more see the futility of supported either party I expect them to join me. Perhaps you will be successful in reforming your Party, I hope so, but I doubt it.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
ardee - "This current bailout is necesary because of one man, Ronald Wilson Reagan, and his selling of the myth of an incompetent government that should stay out of everyone's affairs."
If you want to blame one man, then blame Bill Clinton. He was the one who repealed Glass-Steagall.
It's ironic that Obama is trying to show his competence on the economy by surrounding himself with Bob Rubin and the other neo-liberal architects of this disaster.
I'd say it was a combination of Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. And don't forget both Bushes who further dragged the economy down with endless wars for oil. Of course, Bill Clinton didn't do very much to repeal Reagan's economic policies even when the Democrats controlled both the Congress and the White House other than trying to pay down the national debt and even that faced major opposition from both parties.
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act a republican introduced bill repealed Glass-Steagall. The bill passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. It was therefor veto-proof and didn't matter if Clinton signed it or not. His veto would have been meaningless. Blame congress if you have your facts right.
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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. " Groucho Marx
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
H. L. Mencken
There is certainly enough blame to go around, Free. My citing Reagan though refers to his mantra of incompetent government and the call for complete freedom from regulation. All else follows from this single ( and far too persuasive)message.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
It's ironic how many here try to show their knowledge and understanding by blaming people, ideologies or things that have neither the reach of power nor the means to affect something of such magnitude.
It is completely true that very few understand the system of money that controls not any politician, any party, any nation or any market, but is a system to which the entire world subscribes, and is thus so easily lead.
Least of all the Economists who provide the "expert" analysis of what is going on. Economic theory, after all, is based solely on assumptions. "Assuming that resources are infinite . . . ." "Assuming that prosperity is defined by growth . . . ." It is simple, when the basic premise is wrong, the conclusions are wrong.