It would have to happen on Easter Sunday, wouldn’t it, that the 4,000th American soldier would die in Iraq. Play me that crazy preacher again, will you, about how maybe God, in all his infinite wisdom, may not exactly be blessing America these days. Is anyone surprised? 4,000 dead. Unofficial estimates are that there may be up to 100,000 wounded, injured, or mentally ruined by this war. And there could be up to a million Iraqi dead. We will pay the consequences of this for a long, long time. God will keep blessing America.
And where is Darth Vader in all this? A reporter from ABC News this week told Dick Cheney, in regards to Iraq, “two-thirds of Americans say it’s not worth fighting.” Cheney cut her off with a one word answer: “So?”
“So?” As in, “So what?” As in, “F*** you. I could care less.”
I would like every American to see Cheney flip the virtual bird at the them, the American people. Click here and pass it around. Then ask yourself why we haven’t risen up and thrown him and his puppet out of the White House.
The Democrats have had the power to literally pull the plug on this war for the past 15 months — and they have refused to do so. What are we to do about that? Continue to sink into our despair? Or get creative? Real creative. I know there are many of you reading this who have the chutzpah and ingenuity to confront your local congressperson. Will you? For me?Cheney spent Wednesday, the 5th anniversary of the war, not mourning the dead he killed, but fishing off the Sultan of Oman’s royal yacht. So? Ask your favorite Republican what they think of that.The Founding Fathers would never have uttered the presumptuous words, “God Bless America.” That, to them, sounded like a command instead of a request, and one doesn’t command God, even if they are America. In fact, they were worried God would punish America. During the Revolutionary War, George Washington feared that God would react unfavorably against his soldiers for the way they were behaving. John Adams wondered if God might punish America and cause it to lose the war, just to prove His point that America was not worthy. They and the others believed it would be arrogant on their part to assume that God would single out America for a blessing. What a long road we have traveled since then.I see that Frontline on PBS this week has a documentary called “Bush’s War.” That’s what I’ve been calling it for a long time. It’s not the “Iraq War.” Iraq did nothing. Iraq didn’t plan 9/11. It didn’t have weapons of mass destruction. It DID have movie theaters and bars and women wearing what they wanted and a significant Christian population and one of the few Arab capitals with an open synagogue.
But that’s all gone now. Show a movie and you’ll be shot in the head. Over a hundred women have been randomly executed for not wearing a scarf. I’m happy, as a blessed American, that I had a hand in all this. I just paid my taxes, so that means I helped to pay for this freedom we’ve brought to Baghdad. So? Will God bless me?
God bless all of you in this Easter Week as we begin the 6th year of Bush’s War.
God help America. Please.
–Michael Moore, MichaelMoore.com
So Michael, how can you support Democrats whom you know WILL NOT END THE WAR? Not Hillary. Not Obama. At one time you professed to be aware of this? Since then, the sellout to (one of) the corporate party has taken place. Time to revisit the conscience?
When I heard about Dick Cheney’s arrogant reply to an interviewer’s question, I knew that this was just a way to distract us from the real questions that must be asked, and the responsibility this administration has to the American people. Such as why is the mastermind of the attack on the United States of America — Osama Bin Laden, still free, and why have we not been able to apprehend him?
The other questions could include, why are we in Iraq which is tantamount to losing the economic and morale war to Osama Bin Laden, by slowly bleeding the U.S. to death with the 4,000 troop loss, and estimated billions of dollars taken from our social needs and tossed into the bottomless pit of an endless war?
The type of answer that Cheney gives are carefully orchestrated to keep us at bay, or worse, to demoralize us, and distract us. It is a technique, nothing less. Who cares if he is a rude, or arrogant? We want answers to real questions! Journalists, do your job!!!
Bush Clinton Pelosi Reed Conyors McCain this list could include most of our government officials
and some non government people that help them hide the truth.
Hey Micheal
Maybe a better label would be the Fascist Amerikan Regimes War
“I know there are many of you reading this who have the chutzpah and ingenuity to confront your local congressperson”
Sorry Mike … nothing less than an armed uprising by the general populace will dislodge this mentality … the other option being re-instatement of the Draft !
And now Cheney is in Isreal trying to broker peace!? Yeh… right. If Dick tried to pull a publicity stunt like walking across America for peace between Palestine and Isreal, how far do you think he would get before he got run over?
Well said Mr. Moore. That’s why the Rightwingnuts are so down on you. You make too much sense and you just won’t shut up.
God bless you.
A show I watch once in awhile just to see what may be in the works, called The 700 Club, had a report this morning about a study done on the sequences of violence in Iraq and opposition to the war. It appears, according to the study, that when there’s opposition to the war, a burst of violence follows. So I imagine Limbaugh and the rest will soon be spreading that bull - and the idiots listening will spread it around, and it’ll be believed by so many. Like there hasn’t been continuous oppositon since before the war even started.
Dear “liberals”:
Will you ever get tired of being sold out by the war-supporting democrats?
Either vote for real anti-war candidates and parties (Green Party www.GP.org ) or man-up, and admit you support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan every single time you go into the voting booth and blindly pull the lever for the democrats.
Cheeney Cheeney Chicanery
It’s time to hide in you bunker
Osama’s not the only spelunker
It’s Cheeney Cheeney chicanery
thrillin birds faster than greenbacks a slidin
sparkin his defibber with more bang for the buck
since the DOW and doom cycle clock seldom get stuck
So duck and cover folks
it’s cheeney cheeney chicanery
cheeney cheeney chicanery
cheeney cheeney chicanery
What should we expect from a guy who picked himself to be VP, and the idiot who stumbled along behind him to the white house?
And what should we expect in November after this guy and the recently “chosen” ones are in the Middle East at the same time, and the “chosen” is following in this guys footsteps?
“Such as why is the mastermind of the attack on the United States of America — Osama Bin Laden, still free, and why have we not been able to apprehend him?”
Comments like this show that, even in protest, many Americans are still woefully ignorant about world events. To answer the poster’s questions:
1) Bin Laden did NOT mastermind the World Trade attack. Try and do some research into the most obvious reasons why it would have been impossible for a man sitting in a cave in Afghanistan to do so.
2) He hasn’t been apprehended because he DIED back in late 2001-early 2002. Thus, the blatantly fake replacements who show up like clockwork every election cycle, or anytime things are getting too “real” and a boogie-man is needed.
The real question is why people like Mr. Moore, who supposedly know the score, support the democratic party who at best are an enabler of the war; and at worst, a quiet co-conspirator of the war. After all, the democrats eat from the same pig trough as the republicans.
What the democratic voters are doing right now to prop up the democratic party against the republicans is what the european countries did to ‘oppose’ Hitler. Appeasment doesn’t work, especially if it violates basic principles of freedom, liberty, and justice for all. And impeachment is off the table.
There is a fundamental struggle, and we should at least support the right thing, even if the mainstream media and society doesn’t.
That is why I am voting Nader.
‘I would rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don’t want and get it.’ Eugene Debs
so it goes…
Under no circumstances will God help the U.S.A.. Quite the opposite. Maybe, if the remnants can get it together after the current regime is destroyed, something can be done to facilitate an evolution to socialism. But some things are for certain, the U.S.A. as a nation must cease to exist and that obscene stars and stripes flag must forever represent the epitome of evil, even superseding the swastika flag of Nazism.
No one should lament the destruction of the U.S. empire, since many such organizations have passed from the world history in recent times and no one (not many?) misses the Austro-Hungarian, French, Turkish, British or any other fleeting empire. If there is to be a viable society for the multi-quadrillions (#?) of people who must successively inhabit this planet in the future, then the evil scum must go. Now!
For how many more decades will Michael Moore be supporting Democrats? How many more years will it take before Americans have been thoroughly taken over by their charismatic fascists?
If you want the occupations to end, for the imperialists to give up their brutal aggressions around the world, we must finally go all out with our support for real anti-war candidates, not the dreamy and vague ones coming from those who have voted to FUND THE OCCUPATION, and voted in favor of the PATRIOT ACT, and who are supporting Israel’s genocidal occupation of the Palestinians - both H. Clinton and Obama.
We can’t support people like that, no matter how charismatic and “feel good” they are. Ted Bundy was charismatic but killed “only” 30 or so women. Those who are voting to further the US agenda in Iraq - like Obama and Clinton - have killed or maimed millions. Is this acceptable to you?
Give the real anti-war candidates your money and support so they can take the anti-war message out to the people. Democrats are leading you on, albeit gently and oh so cleverly, but with them, we’re headed for more of the same, that is entirely clear by now.
Vote for whomever you want but for now …. PLEASE support the real anti-war candidates - the world is waiting for Americans to get serious. If you malign anti-war candidates again, the American anti-war movement will die.
I was a Green up till 2000, gave a lot of money and time to Nader back then, and I learned the hard way that we have a two party system, like it or not. Voting Green or any third party at this point, only helps the ideological opposite, the Republicans. That is just how it is, live with it.
This has happened over and over again in our history. Ross Perot’s Reform Party is largely how Bill Clinton became President in 1992, for example.
The only practical course is to take over the Democratic Party, much as the far right took over the Republican party. This takes tenacity and patience. Until our winner take all elections can be replaced with something like proportional representation, voting Green or any third party will only backfire.
@xi_people
I agree with your first statement, but not your second. I believe OBL is alive and very well, gleefully watching the US bleed, as was ALWAYS his desire. He is revered by much of Islam as a hero-warrior, up there with the great Salah Ad-din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub (aka Saladin). As such, he will be protected from stool pigeons. He will probably go down in Arabic history as the most famous muslim in recent times.
“So?”
Well, you have to hand it to Dick Cheney, he is succinct. I don’t know of anyone else who could piss off millions of people just by uttering one word. Now that’s talent! Conversely, I would be willing to bet that if the Vice President suddenly clutched his chest and dropped dead (God willing) the vast majority of Americans would respond to the news with the exact same word. We, too, can be succinct.
keyinside & other militant third-party folks -
Just a hint on the fine art of persuasion…if you want to encourage people to support your cause, do not begin by telling them they are asses. Resorting to Rush Limbaugh-esk tactics of hurling insults at people who disagree with you does nothing to advance your cause or persuade people to explore third party platforms. If you want to be taken seriously, adopt a more positive approach.
Let’s get our terminology straight. It went from Bush’s invasion to Bush’s occupation. There was no war here.
Right now the Iraqis are paying the price for Bush’s ego. Our turn will come.
kathyodat
keyinside wrote:
Either vote for real anti-war candidates and parties (Green Party www.GP.org ) or man-up, and admit you support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan every single time you go into the voting booth and blindly pull the lever for the democrats.
Words Are Important wrote:
That is why I am voting Nader.
I could well conclude that I should vote for myself. Why vote for Nader or the Green Party candidate, individuals with whom I agree on the great majority of the major issues, when I can vote for a person with whom I agree on 100 percent of the issues? And I believe I have the same chance of winning as they do, i.e. zero.
No third party is going to win this year, so a vote for a third party can only make sense if it is part of a long-term plan. I have yet to read an argument about how voting for a third party this year fits into a reasonable long-term plan to take back the country.
Some on the left argue that the goal should be to support the candidate with a realistic chance of winning who is least likely to implement measures, e.g. ending Net Neutrality or putting into place even more electronic surveillance, that would make progressive gains in the future more difficult.
alyosha
And how long does it take to “take over the Democratic Party?” Fifty years? We’ve been working on it for that long! Their tricks get slicker all the time and our situation gets worse. It’s the money, corporate money-power.
Why not take over WalMart? Go get a job there and begin your take-over. Take over Fox News, get a job in the mailroom and work your way up. You can’t take over corporations and corporations own America. All yu can do is refuse to play their sick, counter-productive (for us) game.
If you can be convinced to support corporate candidates who are voting to kill innocent victims, it will be a long, long time before America can be healed.
“Bush’s Illegal Invasion and Occupation” is the more accurate title for tonight’s Frontline, since the United States of America is not now, nor has it ever been, officially at “war” with Iraq.
We ARE lobing missiles into Somalia - so, technically, we ARE at “war” with Somalia. And we ARE lobing missiles into Pakistan - so, technically, we ARE at “war” with Pakistan. And we did attempt to overthrow the governments of Palestine and Venezuela - so, technically, we ARE at “war” with Palestine and Venezuela. And we do have Special Ops and other military forces operating inside of Iran - so, technically, we ARE at “war” with Iran.
And we do have military troops “stationed” in more than 100 other countries worldwide - surely, many of the natives consider the presence of American military forces on their soil some sort of war-like act? How would we feel about troops from over a 100 countries hanging out in Texas and Kansas and Florida?
But we are NOT in a state of “war” against our ally Iraq - and the sooner we stop calling it that, the sooner the 41 million Americans who continue to support Bush will stop worshiping his “war powers.”
Dick Cheney doesn’t want the war to end, not even by winning. Follow the money. Who is funding Al-Qaeda? Who profits from Al-Qaeda’s activities? Who profits from the war in Iraq? What happened to the Iraqi oil and the country’s wealth, its historical artifacts and other cultural treasures? This was the cradle of civilization. What is left of all that was of any value?
Find out how many companies are “connected” to Dick Cheney in some way, then cross reference that list with the list of companies that are having boon years since the Iraqi war started, in spite of the rest of the economy falling apart. I’ll bet you my favorite pair of Levis that both lists are the same. And then you’ll understand why Cheney couldn’t care less how many people die over there. Not only that, but who are we to question him?
He is who he has always been. To my knowledege this man doesn’t even lie or try to cover up his tracks. We always knew–or should have known–what he is.
God will judge him someday, and when He does, each of us will be standing right next to Cheney. What defense will we offer for our part?
We voted this man and his puppet into office. We allowed him to continue. We gave him the money to do it. We even paid people to protect him, to wait on him, and to provide him with every possible comfort. Then we allowed him to operate above the law, and gave him the authority to change the US Constitution to make sure his actions will always be considered legal. How dare we question his actions or imply that he is accountable? So people are dead as a result of his actions? So? What else do we expect him to say?
God will judge him someday, and when He does, each of us will be standing right next to Dick Cheney. What defense will we offer for our part?
buy gold and silver, the giant derivatives blob of $500 trillion glowing toxic waste is the reward God will reign down on our financial system. Maybe God is really just missing an ‘L’ and will bless those who believe in it, instead of the lies and deceit of corrupt men.
Do you get it now, Michael, finally?
Ralph Nader in 2008.
WTF March 24th, 2008 12:47 pm— Born in Tikrit, Iraq, Saladin, his Arabic name is Salah ad-Din Yusuf, was a Kurd. While Salah ad-Din Yusuf was Muslim, Kurds are Celts, not Arabs. I know, confusing. Either way, OBL will never touch him. Like comparing Brutus to Alexander. Not the same.
Peace.
How would voting Democrat lead to a long term plan to take back our country? That’s just reaffirming the thieves who helped to steal it in the first place. It seems like if we want a long term plan to take back our country, the STEP #1 of any such plan has to be to withdraw our support from the theives who’ve already turned our country into a government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations. No matter what we do, that has to be step #1. So, why not take that first step?
Don’t believe the Democrat lies that they represent change? They don’t. Look at their ACTIONS, not their words, and what you see is a 20 year history of the Dems being as much a part of the problem as the Republicans. Or just look at the time since the 2006 elections and ask how much ‘change’ the Democrats have given us? The Dems are a party build on the lie. They talk progressive to get our votes, then their ACTIONS are purely in support of the big corporations that fund that party of evil (the minutely slightly lessor variety).
Now is the time to save America, tomorrow will be too late.
There are several ways to “change” the direction of this country. Every method requires that we the people act now to take responsibility for the violence being “done” in our names. The “war crimes are us” party in the white house is backed by the “what constitution” party in congress. These two headed war mongers do not make the country stronger. They do not make the world safer for democracy or free speech, when they endorse widespread worldwide torture, illegal wiretaps and political violence.
We can object to this corruption by voting for candidates with a spine, but with endocrine disruption pollution in the world water cycle, hubris and denial are at epidemic levels. Most certainly with the inner sexing fish in the head waters of the Potomac a good old American spine seems harder and harder to find. Water pollution is that abundant? Yes. Then it is no wonder there are no spines along the Potomac. It really is in the water, we just thought that the EPA was watching industry, turns out the EPA is just watching TV.
Green candidates with a spine are much preferred over the tax cut sloths and their toxic waste lobby teams being passed off as political discourse by faux news and the otherwise (I really wish they were) liberal press.
We can also object to the abuse of power through our choices on how we spend our money. Depending of course on which corporate store got the best tax write off to locate in your town. So, unless we all start reading the labels, such as asking your candidates their position, you can bet safely that Darth Cheney plans to enhance our domestic work force by using the China model, that is by locking up dissidents and putting them to work in prison labor camps. You see that way we can compete in the global economy. And to level the playing field even further, forget about environmental protection. What do you need toxin free fish for anyway?
We can work in our communities to educate our citizens about the historical corporate violence that governments once attempted to regulate and keep in check.
And we must object loudly about the institutional welfare for the war profiteers.
It is treasonous that they are destroying our nation, just as they have for centuries of unaccountable corporate lawlessness.
That is why no third party discussion is allowed on the corporate air waves. Deregulation at the FCC gave up our right to free speech long ago. Silence is the voice of complicity and complicity in this day and age is an endorsement or war crimes and silent acceptance of crimes against humanity.
The silence you hear is the shock and awe of our constitution crumbling away and when it is gone all that will be left is the sadness of a people who should have known better, but did nothing.
Thank’s Mike for trying to add some sense to the debate.
Mike you hypocrite are you still getting on your knees and begging Nader not to run this time? Shame on you, you and the rest of all pathetic Democratic voters have blood on your hands as much as Republicans do.
People have to understand that the Democratic party is not democratic. They’ve set their rules up to make very damn sure that big money controls that party and that people like us at the grassroots can’t take it over.
Superdelegates are one example. They aren’t there to decide a race between two corporate backed candidates backed by different groups of party hacks. In that case you see exactly what you see now between Obama and Hillary. The Superdelegates split. What the Superdelegates are there for is to make damn sure a Kucinich or a Gravel can’t win. In that case, the Superdelegates would all back the corporate candidate, meaning the grassroots candidate needs 60% of the vote to win in the Democratic party.
The calendar is another example. A compressed and quick primary\caucus calendar gives a big edge to the candidates with big money. They can bombard multiple states with big ad campaigns, which a grassroots campaign can’t compete with. So when you see all the primaries in big states in one day, that’s a rule designed to make sure corporate money decides the contest.
And of course, the Dem party could limit contributions if they wanted to. They can use any rules they want in an internal contest, as long as they don’t exceed limits in Federal law. So, look at the rules and see the way the Dem party has tilted their internal contests as far towards big money as federal law lets them. The Dems could use something like Vermont’s Clean Election rules for internal contest. They deliberately don’t, and there’s a lesson to learn there.
Or, look at the way they handle their campaigns and debates. The Dem party has willingly given control of its debates to the big corporate media. And the Dem party does not object at all when this media either favors the corporate candidates or excludes the others. Again, learn the lesson here.
Think maybe you can change the Dem party by passing local resolutions. The leadership doesn’t care. How many local and state party groups have passed resolutions either against the Iraq war\occupation or in favor of impeachment. In truly anti-Democratic fashion, the leadership of the party ignores these.
Or, watch what happens if someone tries to challenge the corporate Dems at the House or Senate primary level. First a lot of pressure is brought to try to get them to withdraw the challenge. And if that doesn’t work the national leadership both floods the race with money for the corporate Dem and people like Bill Clinton will be flying into the district to support the corporate Dem.
Face it, people have been saying to work within the Dem party since at least 1996 (when people had learned enough about Bill Clinton to be disgusted with his pro-corporate policies). That’s been the constant mantra. And of course it is from the Dem party hacks. Because they know damn well they control the rules and that they’ve got the game rigged in their favor. What they want more than anything else is for us to waste our time and effort in futile attempts to change an undemocratic party from within. They laugh at us and call us ‘idiot liberals’. And we must be awfully funny to them as we fall into the same traps over and over again.
Face it people. The only way to do this is from outside the Democratic Party.
A third party vote “makes sense” when one’s conscience does not allow one to vote for one of the two war party’s candidates. The complaint that we have a two party system and that is the way it is like it or not is a result of people not having the courage to change it. To break the addiction. That backside pain you feel every four years is the Democratic Party screwing you over. How many screwing overs does it take to stop their insult and injury? Then again, many folk are addicted to pain. Vote Democrat and the pain will continue. The track record tells us so.
A vote for Obama is a vote to keep troops in Iraq through 2012. Obama’s already made that clear.
A vote for Obama is a vote for even larger Pentagon budgets. He’s promising to add more troops, increase training and modernize equipment.
Or read this article for a disturbing take on what Obama has said about Latin America. http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16946 Obama basically says its been a mistake of Bush’s to let this region have some independence while we’ve focused on the middle east. Obama promises to correct this and put our big imperialist foot back down in Latin America.
A vote for Obama is a vote for more expanded wars. He’s already supported what Bush seems to be doing by sending troops and missiles into Pakistan. And he’s backed the AIPAC\Bush line on Iran all the way through. Remember his ‘all options are on the table’ speech to AIPAC.
If you want change, you can’t vote Democrat.
Take over the democratic party from the inside? Laughable!
Here’s a tip: When you try to change the system from the inside, it’s not the system that changes, it’s YOU that change.
Michael Moore should shut up and support RALPH NADER, DUH !!!!!!!!!!
VOTENADER.ORG
This is funny! “Take over the democratic party from the inside?” I have heard this since 1968. Yeah right. DLC big contributors will let you do that alright. This presidential race is going to cost A BILLION DOLLARS PLUS! Come on folks, we need to pull our collective heads out from where the pain is. The Democratic Party is NOT GOING TO END THE WAR. It is not going to bring us universal single payer health care. It is not going to hold those in the White House accountable for high crimes and misdemeanors. The Democratic Party is sucking on the same corporate teat as the Republicans. That is why I am voting for Ralph Nader. Imperfect as the man may be, he stands for and elucidates those issues that the Democratic Party once claimed as their own. If you want more war then go ahead and vote Democratic. You will then have 4 more years to moan about the Democratic Party before once again, you vote for them, and get screwed again. No. No more, I say.
COMarc,
There are few here at CD, and I am certainly not among them, who actually trust the Democratic Party to do what is necessary to build a better future for most Americans and the world. However, that does not necessarily translate into supporting third parties in 2008 — the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Republicans have shown they are significantly more dangerous than Democrats. A reasoned argument can be made that under Democrats that progressives can continue to network and build progressive organizations, increasing their number and their power. And a reasoned argument, based on a mountain of evidence, can be made that if the Republicans are able to take back Congress and keep the Presidency, that could be the end of meaningful elections — no more fascist-lite vs. fascist, but instead fascist vs. fascist in the Republican primaries and the general election decided by electronic voting machines.
Almost certainly a total Republican victory would be the end of Net Neutrality and probably the end of the use of the Internet for beneficial purposes. And just as likely it would mean more electronic surveillance. I just wonder how progressives can build their party or parties under those conditions? Violent revolution, which would become more likely, would seem to be the only option left.
Confront your local congressman? HA! I can tell you exactly what he/she will say ..”So?”
Congress is in a stranglehold. They will accomplish nothing.
The key to collapsing this house of cards is the first successful indictment for war crimes. It has to be done outside of the country so there won’t be any “pardon” bs. The Hague was made for such trials.
A reporter from ABC News this week told Dick Cheney, in regards to Iraq, “two-thirds of Americans say it’s not worth fighting.” Cheney cut her off with a one word answer: “So?”
Cheney is above and beyond American law because the democrats allow him to remain beyond the law. Nancy pelosi knows what cheney said and still she persists in blocking impeachment. In effect, denials aside, she agrees with cheney. No possible pelosi rationalization is remotely justifiable in the face of cheney’s comment, yet she persists. Conyers, Ried, and others are just as guilty. How can anyone with a mind and a conscience reward the democrats with their vote. This is proof positive that the democrats will not bring positive change. Rationalizations to the contrary are just false and hopeful rationalizations destined for disappointment.
There are just two ways to bring this to an end. One, vote Green, and two, stop consuming., Anything else is just digging your own grave.
President Bush stood underneath a “Mission Accomplished” banner and announced that “Major combat operations have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”
this is ridiculous.
everyone knows the war ended on may 1, 2003.
What? “Republicans have shown they are significantly more dangerous than Democrats.” What? Who enabled the Republicans to occupy Iraq? Who gave the Bushites EVERYTHING they wanted for seven years? Who refuses to protect and defend the Constitution and impeach? D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-S, that’s who. You see with Republicans you know the screwing you’re going to get. With Democrats, the screwing you get is presented as pleasure. “That could be the end of meaningful elections”? C.D. stop inhaling. The last two elections were meaningless!!! Remember Florida, Ohio, the Supreme Court? Cold turkey! Break the addiction. Which candidate is talking about the criminal war? Nader. Which candidate is talking about defending the US Constitution by impeaching those who destroy it? Nader. Which candidate has a plan for bringing the troops home in the first year? Nader. What is wrong with you people?
Answer: Dick Cheney
Question: What do you call the charm bracelet hanging off your penis piercing?
I will vote for Dennis Kucinich in November. If the DLC wants me to vote for their nominee, then they will have to nominate Dennis Kucinich. If the Democrats lose by one vote in November, maybe they will listen to me next time.
Does anyone remember the email from Michael Moore after the fall-2002 vote in the US Senate on authorizing the use of force in Iraq? I’m paraphrasing, but he said something like, “I will never support the election of one of the senators who voted for this war unless he or she apologizes.”
Two years later, whom did Moore support in the general election? John Kerry, who voted for the war but regretted it but had an excuse. Whom did Moore support as the Vice Presidential candidate? John Edwards, who had voted for the war but seemed to regret it a little bit more but didn’t want to talk about it. In the primary, whom did Moore support originally? Wesley Clark. That makes sense; if you’re against war, you should support a former general. That’s like supporting a former CEO to be attorney general because he knows about the horrors of the corporate world and can stop them. Hmmm.
This time around, will Moore support Hillary if she’s the Democratic nominee? Maybe he’ll support John McCain, who will be a good President because, like Wesley Clark, he was in the military and knows firsthand the horrors of torture. I wonder why he doesn’t just stick to his guns and admit that he’s not very morally consistent. He stumped for Nader in 2000. There’s no shame in that, but he tried so hard to distance himself from this previous support in 2004 it was embarrassing.
Here’s what I don’t understand. If you were stupid enough to believe George W. Bush in fall 2002, why wouldn’t you be stupid enough now to believe that Iran poses a real threat to the US or Venezuela isn’t allowed under international law to defend its borders against Colombian incursion or the Palestinians and Israelis suffer equally? The thing is, there were elected officials who were right on all these issues way back in 2002. Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Lee, Cynthia McKinney, Matt Gonzalez. There were others who weren’t elected officials but who knew better. Ralph Nader, Jim Hightower, Scott Ritter. Instead of supporting who we think has a chance of winning, we should support who we want to win. That’s what elections should be about, and that’s how I always vote.
And don’t give me this crying about the winner-take-all-system. Besides some of the people I’ve mentioned and Jesse Jackson, Jr., no Democrat has done anything since 2000 to reform the electoral system to allow other candidates to be viable.
And if you don’t believe in the war, you shouldn’t fund it. You don’t buy your alcoholic father alcohol, and you don’t give any funding to the Pentagon.
Moore asks a good question: Why haven’t the US people risen up against this administration? If a Bolivian or Venezuelan or Argentinian or Ukrainian presidential candidate had blatantly stolen an election, like Bush et al did in 2000, mobs would rush federal buildings and throw them out bodily, or at least attempt to. If such an unelected president had managed to remain in office long enough to tell the lies that this president has or kill and impoverish as many people as this president has, citizens in many other countries wouldn’t have said, “No, we must respect the democratic process and wait four years for the next election” - especially if the president in question wasn’t elected in the first place. And now Cheney can explicitly say, “Fuck you” to US public opinion and no one cares. What is wrong with Americans?
Vote Nader.
Voting GREEN = Getting Republikkkans Elected Every November.
And Ralph Nader is a QUACK.
The worst Democrat is STILL a thousand times better than the best Republikkkan, folks. If you’re going to go the “purity” route in selecting your candidate, you are doomed to disappointment, no matter how much you may bleat about clear consciences. I voted third-party once upon a time in 1980 - after that experience I vowed that I would never do that again unless and until proportional representation becomes the law of the land.
Remember: Republikkkans Suck Like A Hoover.
@Baritonwoman - if you want to waste your vote on corporate drones, that’s your choice, but don’t act like as if the democrats will do anything meaningful.
Just a thought- who owns your vote? The democratic party, or you? Can you steal your own vote? If so, how?
When I saw that interview on TV and Cheney said, “SO”, __ or fuck you all. I jumped right out of my chair. I hadn’t been so pissed since the day I watched Bush land on the aircraft carrier and swagger off wearing his leather combat flight jacket. The incredible, chicken-shit deserter.
I screamed at the TV screen to the female reporter who had asked the question of Cheney, ___ “Slap his smug face, tell him that he’s an arrogant, rat, sonofabitch. Spit in his face”
Of course she didn’t do any of that, but from her reaction and body language, I’m positive she could barely contain her anger and herself.
And why wasn’t that brief skit shown continually for at least five days on every news channel? ___ Oh yeah, __ forgot. I’m surprised it was ever shown even once.
Lest we should ever forget, here’s a two minute read of what we also have done in the Persian Gulf region.
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_blowinginthewind.htm
Those who are serious about change don’t vote for Ralph Nader. Why does Ralph still not admit that Al Gore would have made a better president than George Bush. The Naderites always deny that 90,000 votes in Florida in 2000 would not have made a difference when less than 600 votes was the difference according to Kathy Harris and her crowd.
There is a clear difference between John McSame and Barak Obama. If the Naderites can’t see it this time they are just hopeless twits. Extracting the U.S. out of Iraq will not be easy; it will take a skilled politician to do it. Even the most rabid of Naderites will not claim that Ralph is a skilled politician. He is just old joke now. Think what a better world we would have if he would have stopped running for President a decade ago. What a sad sack he is, really.
But what I would like to see is some of the Nader nuts to just put up some significant cash for his campaign. It is a safe bet that very, very few of his supporters are up to the $2,000 dollar limit. So, if you are not going to put up, than just shut up.
Hey, “keyinside”: BLOW ME.
And that goes for all other Ralph Nader supporters: Up yours for throwing away your vote because the Democratic candidate doesn’t meet your oh-so-pure standards
BaritoneWoman you are blowing your horn. Your non-cogent attack on Nader as being a “QUACK” is telling. This is what passes for Democratic “thought”. It proves the point Greens and others are making that you don’t have the courage to make change, that instead you expect the Democrats to make it for you. I encourage you then to hold your breath.
Lying sacks you Democrats are. Just like G.W. Bush, you take no responsibility for the fact that 235,000 registered Democrats in Florida VOTED FOR G.W. BUSH. You blame Nader instead. Why? Because you are democratic in party name over.
jozef,
The Democrats stood by and let the rape happen, but the Republicans thought of the rape and executed it. True, the Democrats are not admirable or desirable, but the point is that the Republicans are more dangerous.
The Democrats may be craven cowardly ciphers, and that is generally a bad thing, but it is a good thing when those plotting to murder and rob the peoples of the world and to enslave their fellow Americans are too cowardly and weak to follow through. When you want a real fascist who isn’t squeamish about murder and robbery or about trashing the constitution, pick a Republican.
Vote Democrat! They are too weak to murder and enslave us!
“Kivals” is correct. The Republicans are exponentially more dangerous than Democrats if for no other reason than their constituents rarely question their leaders’ motives or outcomes. After all, when God is on your side, what is there to question????
Democrats are, to be sure, trailing along behind the same wagon. The difference is their constituency, which is constantly trying to move them in a responsible direction. I do talk to my reps / senators’ offices frequently, the Republican is oblivious to every rational argument; the Democrats understand the progressive wing of the party holds the key in the next election.
I don’t want another Republican president putting supreme court justices on the bench; I don’t want another Republican president setting environmental policy; I don’t want another Republican president giving more tax cuts to the wealthy; I don’t want another Republican president corrupting and eviscerating our educational system; I don’t want another Republican president leading this nation into a war that is criminal, inhumane, and immoral.
I suspect that some who advocate a 3rd choice are sincere, and I applaud you for your sincerity and convictions. Be aware, however, of others who would lead you down the path of electoral defeat - and another four or eight years of interminable hell.
Remember this: it wasn’t the Democrats who created ‘free speech zones.’ It wasn’t the Democratic political appointees who attempted to undermine the FCC. It wasn’t the Democrats in two successive presidential elections who pulled electoral capers we all thought had died in the 1800s. It wasn’t a Democratically appointed EPA who gutted the regs and lied about the science. It wasn’t the Democrats who wrote secret legal briefings to give a president dictatorial powers over the other two branches of government.
Vote your conscience to a point - but try to avoid slitting your own throats (and your children’s) in a blind rage over the perceived shortcomings of the only party that has any real chance of defeating McCain / war for another 100 years / in November.
Good one Michael. What movie are you working on? How about one on financing of political campaigns?
Hey, “jozef”: What’s your last name, Stalin? McCarthy?
How dare you presume that I don’t think for myself or that I don’t have the “courage to make change”.
The Democratic nominee (and eventual POTUS in 2009) is not going to make change for us alone. Neither are the other Democrats in Congress or the state legislatures. WE THE PEOPLE are going to push them into making change.
Mr. Cheney as he tries to splain himself during the war crimes trials of himself, George, Condy, Rummy, et al. “I truly believed we were doing what was in the best interest of the Iraqi people. I didn’t MEAN to commit any war crimes!!!”
The judge replies before pronouncing the sentence of hanging…”So…?” (as in so what? Fu*k YOU!!!)
Friends, it doesn’t matter who you vote for in November. It is all crashing down. The Republicans will hasten the collapse, but the Dems will bring it all down just the same. The Greens can’t save it and neither can Nader. In fact, “it” is not even worth saving. Stay home in November, go see a movie with your family. But not a Moore movie, he sold out back in 2004, if not before.
Most will see my name and ignore this; they will say, So?
The War against Iraq was started by George H. W. Bush with the genocidal sanctions and illegal no-fly zones. These were escalated by Clinton/Gore until the War became a clear Holocaust. This Holocaust was in turn escalated by George W. Bush. As with the Vietnam Holocaust, massive majorities from both political parties support the whole Iraq Holocaust project. At the same time, both Holocausts are supported by the corporate propaganda network, while constantly invoking the myths that the USA is a democracy and leader of the Free World. The Democrats formulated the National Security State with the complicity of the Republicans, and both have operated in lock-step since to expand the US Empire. These are the fundamental truths that oppress us and the planet. Unfortunately, most remain blind to these truths. Even many who are willing to admit the truth nevertheless refuse to support the alternative. They somehow think change can be wrought on an institution responsible for and deeply rooted in Imperial Business as Usual, while ignoring the lessons of the 2006 election.
In 1774, less than 1% of British North America were radical revolutionaries, a number I suspect the readership of CommonDreams exceeds. The Revolution was a top-down affair made successful by the elite’s convincing the commnfolk that their property was being stolen by the British Empire, as the numerous Acts of Parliament culminating in the Intolerable Acts proved. The same is true today as our property is robbed of us by the US Empire’s Iraqi Holocaust and wars of Imperial Expansion. It is this vital element that Moore points out in his final paragraph, although he points to the citizenry’s moral culpability as their “benefit” for being robbed of their property.
The ultrarightists in the Republican Party made hay by convincing the commonfolk that Big Government was robbing them of their property, and they still employ that mantra despite greatly enlarging the government. In this time of great and soon greater economic dislocation, we can make hay by charging BOTH political parties with robbing our property. This is perhaps the argument they fear most as it resonates greatly with the vast majority of citizens.
I just received a letter today from my electric utility. My power bill is increasing by 22% beginning this April. My real estate tax increased by $146.00 a month during a time when real estate values are in rapid decline. Gasoline is up to $3.29 a gallon, Food costs are rising so fast that I can’t get a handle on the percentage of increase yet. Some of my medical costs went up by 40%. Home and auto insurance went up significantly too.
Like many people today, there is not enough money to cover living expenses at the end of the month. So I don’t buy some of my medications and I skip a meal daily. I am turning down my heat settings by 20%. I got rid of my personal car years ago. The family car will be driven much less because my wife will stop teaching as an adjunct professor at the University of Missouri. The income does not justify the expense. So down and down we go. I don’t subscribe to cable and do not watch tv so no problem there.
I do wear old and worn clothes so no problem there. I will not borrow money anymore for anything. Soon I will be planting my garden, no expense there. If I go down I will go down quietly in a spiritual way. Violence is not the path of life. We are at the beginning of a paradigm shift in lifeways and life now will only feel the weight of a collapsing and outmoded system of living. I reject cheney’s “no” answer, and will walk the honor path to whatever comes. Live in Spirit !
***Impeach the President*** | Join Your Congressional District’s Impeachment Committee | Sign the Impeachment Petition | Impeach Him in the Streets (VIDEO)
I don’t know if this is linkable but it’s from Mr. Moore’s web site. Why? Because there’s not a word of impeachment in the article is there? Moore seems to be falling into that vast group of splinter groups among splinter groups that will bitch and moan and say anything but impeach.
I mean there it is: delivered on a silver platter by the founders of this Nation - a Constitution with the word impeachment in it. But Moore implores us to do what? Contact Congress for him? Why? To say, “spank me again daddy so I know how much you love me”?!
All these splinter groups so self-righteously clinging to their slogans when united groups around one word would be the greatest deliverance for all and their idiosyncratic concerns. Yes, the choice: impeach Bush/Cheney or spank me more daddy so I know how much you love me.
And you keep asking for the spanking…I’m about to turncoat and join the sadistic side!
Change and expectations.
So….. if it takes a Chimp say 2 years to learn how to crack a nut how long will it take [?] too…..
Hope, pray ,call, donate, confront, mail ,educate, never never give up …
Save the Whales .. “Hell” save >ALL Life < From…[?]too….
So?…Michael:
I have to compliment you on having the stomach to actually listen to the latest bile that Bush’s Boss excretes. You’re a better TV watcher than I.
Howze about dipping into some of your millions and creating a little Web ad and taking out another in the Times or the Post where you’d get alot more bang for your bucks than you do on CD, as if the folks here aren’t already giving their non-existent free time and dwindling bucks to organizing where and how we can.
Good to see you finally got over your little Hillary fixation.
Got Rope?
America doesn’t deserve God’s help, Michael. And besides, there is no God.
I’d think both of those facts would be painfully obvious by now.
Some of these posts are hilarious. I especially like the “Democrats will change things” post from Baritone. Sure. Just like they changed things in 2006. The spineless group of bobble-head Democrats couldn’t change a diaper. They only want a vote and have no back at all to make real change.
Hillary Clinton is a pro-war waffle that endorses the use of nuclear weapons. Also a member of the same Bush/Clinton monarchy that has controlled our government since 1980. No thanks.
Barack Obama makes some good speeches but behind that curtain he’s just a bobble-head n00bie. If he’s elected we’ll endure 4 years of stagnation from a do-nothing president with a do-nothing congress.
Try the Obama Special - “A big plate of status-quo with a side order of talk.”
So on the other side there’s John Manson who is pro-war and wants to attack Iran. Nothing like a sequel to the cheesy horror movie we just watched the last 8 years.
The only candidate that is sane enough and experienced enough to even hope to lead this country is Ralph Nader. There simply is no other choice.
So those of you that think voting for a Democrat will help our country, I suggest that you get a strong cup of coffee and walk through the garden. (Wake up and smell the roses)
I’m not a democrat, I’m registered independent. I would not vote for Ralph Nader ever, regardles of what good he has done as a vocal and hands on fighter for enviromental and safety issues over the years, which have helped all of us. And there are some ultra-conservatives of course, who say he’s been a pain in the ass.
I will never vote for a ’spoiler’ and the truth is, Nader is just that when he runs for the presidency, in spite of his laudable and progressive stands on very important issues.
If Nader wishes to be a factor in higher government, he should swallow his inflated ego and start at the lower levels and build a platform based upon a credible voting record, not just attempt to do so by his words and run for the highest office in the land, knowing full well he cannot possibly win, but realizing he could indeed seriously effect the outcome of a presidential election.___ As he definently did, ___ the numbers just do not lie.
The denyers say that_(X)_ number of Democrats voted for Bush in Florida. They also say that if Nader hadn’t been on the ballot, most of those who did vote for Nader would have stayed home. ___ Is that a fact, __ or an assumption? ___ It’s a flawed assumption.
The facts are, Nader recieved some 60,000 votes and regardless of how many Democrats may have voted for Bush, or how many Republicans may have voted for Gore is not relevant. What is relevent is, ___ if even just 30% of the Nader voters did go to the polls, you can be assured that the vast majority of them would never have voted for Bush. For all we truthfully know, all 60,000 may have voted for Gore.
And no one can truthfuly, or reasonably state, that none of them would have voted if Nader was not on the ballot. That’s just a self serving argument to save one’s personal shame and attempt to prove a sorry-ass point. So that’s my opinion, which is based upon the math and what I have learned over the years about human nature. So if any wish to blast me for voicing my opinon about Nader, knock yourselves out, I could care less.
I’m voting Democrat if we have an election in November. We cannot afford another year of “Bushism” and don’t attempt to tell me that either Hillary or Obama are the same as McCain, becaue if you do, you are showing your ignorance as to their stands on the issues.
Indeed the democrats are not a mile apart from the Republicans on many issues. They all are slaves of lobbyists and pac money and spend most of their time in office, attempting to raise money for their next Television ad campaign. They are not all sorry-ass, corrupt, rats. Many become that way after they get elected to office and have the luxuries afforded. We have to live with the system “we the people” have allowed to develop, and until we change it, I’m voting for a democrat and if Ronald McDonald, or a certified jackass is the demo candidate, they’re getting MY vote.
However, I will never, ever, believe Al Gore or John Kerry would have attacked Iraq as Bush did and put us in a position of a bankrupt nation heading for a depresion. It’s not a recession for the ones earning minumum wage, or even those who earn about ten or eleven dollars an hour. For them, and they are many, as ~Doom and Gloom~ stated in his post here, ___ it’s already a depression, one which will hit every one of us sometime during this current year.
I’m in complete amazement, even at Michael for discussing our ridiculous two party system. Everything happening on TV is complete bunkum, intended to entertain the sheeple. The decions have been made, the war and the profits that go with it, will continue. What’s not so certain is if we’ll still have a constituion left in November.
Net effect, a totally BKd 80-20 3rd world country that makes NOTHING in which homeownership is an experience of less than 20% of the population. Just what George Bush, Cheney, the Neo-Cons, and the richfilth animals have wanted from the very beginning: Everything, Forever, For Themselves. Who hates America? They HATE America, like they HATE participatory Democracy, which they NEVER ALLOW.
Would you allow it if you were a Slave Master dependent on an ocean of slaves for your wealth and private law?
Hopeless folks. They got you by the short and curlies. You cannot even agree on shared history from 8, 4, or 2 years ago. People still blame Nader for the loss of a wooden candidate who couldn’t even carry his own state, who didn’t have the balls to stand up and demand a recount, who refused. And as for the the Billionairefilth from Heinz, well, he’s a spent force, isn’t he. And he didn’t have the balls to demand a recount either, did he. Like I said, shared history. You don’t know who your enemies are.
You’re lost in a Roman wilderness of pain, and all the children are insane.
Sorry for what’s about to befall you. Your illusory America is about to die for good and all. Wouldn’t wish it on someone I despised but some will call it Justice.
Peace.
So..what’s wrong with the lesser of two evils? Dems are less evil, and Repugs are more evil. There are two ways to vote Republican in 2008: vote for them or vote 3d party.
My, what a hotbed of Nader voters here! Guess you all still believe Ralph when he says “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference…”
Well, kindly read this short quote from Kelpie Wilson on Truthout today re global warming:
“The European Union Emissions Trading System established under the Kyoto protocol gave away emissions allocations to polluting industries in a grandfathering scheme. This depressed the price of carbon and got the market off to a slow start in 2005.
The Lieberman-Warner bill would repeat this strategy in the US by giving away over half of the pollution allowances - worth billions of dollars - to big industries like coal-burning electric utilities. By contrast, both Clinton and Obama advocate auctioning 100 percent of the allowances.
One hundred percent auctioning is a litmus test for much of the environmental community, which sees the revenues as a crucial source of funds to pay for research and development of renewable energy and to support low-income people who will be hurt by higher prices. In fact, a cap-and-trade system with 100 percent auctioning of allowances is functionally not very different from a carbon tax.”
Where do YOU want those billions of dollars in pollution allowances to go? Think it doesn’t matter if you vote Dem or Repub, or waste a vote on any candidate without a chance in hell of winning? This is one of the crucial issues of our time. Think about it.
Democratic voters are the most ignorant, the blindest, the most exasperating people on the face of the Earth. They hate Nader for getting 90,000 votes in Florida in 2000, but forget that 2,000,000 (that’s 2 million) registered DEMOCRATS (= idiots) across the nation voted for Bush for president that same year. Can you stop eating excrement for breakfast every morning, Democrats?
Can you face reality and admit that your party is responsible for Iraq, for the disastrous economy and for the loss of our civil rights as much as Republicans are?
It still amazes me that America looks the other way while Bush and Cheney continue to destroy it. There has to be a way to get rid of them and now!
I proudly voted for Nader in 2000, and then again in 2004. I will not vote for him this year. Why? Because Nader is more interested in getting his last shot at the Presidency than he is in bringing the country together to defeat the right wing. Because he is old as dirt, like John McCain. Because saying and believing the right stuff doesn’t mean shit unless you can deliver. I don’t think Nader can deliver.
And to the sorry soul who is going to vote for DK: We all love DK and wish he also had more of a chance, but he is out of the race! Wake up!
And finally, who in their right might can vote for anyone other than Barack Obama right now? Honestly? How much change do you think can actually come from one election? Do you think that by electing someone like Ralph Nader, we will suddenly no corporations, universal health care and free education through Ph.D? Again, wake up.
It’s time to act like adults, vote like adults, and then take responsibility like adults. The problem with you Nader and post-campaign DK people is that you think the President we elect is the answer. We are the answer. We need someone in there who will at least listen to us, and then it’s up to us to give that new President a deal he can’t refuse!
What do you eat for beakfast ~Tetti Tatti~? My God you are such a horrible, souless person, how can you stand yourself?
“Where do YOU want those billions of dollars in pollution allowances to go?” AdeleTheCzech March 24th, 2008 4:03 pm
Ooooohhh. Oooooohhhh. Ooooohhh. If we don’t vote Dim the Unions will all die. If we don’t vote Dim all the jobs will go off shore. If we don’t vote Dim we’ll lose the social safety net. If we don’t vote Dim bad people will be appointed to the Supreme Court.
IF WE VOTE DIM THEY WILL GET US OUT OF IRAQ AND IMPEACH BUSH CHANEY.
FUCK YOUR GODDAMN DIMS. FUCK’EM AND LETT’EM DIE ON ANTHILLS IN THE MOHAVE THEN BURY THEIR BODY PARTS IN SEPARATE HOLES. LET THEIR NAMES AND THEIR FAMILIES BE ERASED FROM THE BOOK OF TIME.
AN ENEMY IS AN ENEMY BUT WHEN THE ONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE YOUR FRIEND SELLS YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN INTO SLAVERY - WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO THEM? HOW MANY GOBBETS OF FLESH WOULD BE LEFT WHEN YOU ARE DONE?
FUCK YOUR DIM ANIMALS. I WAS THERE AND I DO NOT FORGET. Let them die.
Take your fear based faith based politics and shove them up your Dim ass. Yes dearie, we’re all very afraid now. Afraid enough to carve betrayors into gobbets of flesh. After your Dims deliver America into starvation, the machetes will be sharpened and your neighbors will come after you as a defender of EVIL.
Bubye.
Okay, I love Micheal Moore and all, but -
How can he acknowledge that the Democrats could have “pulled the plug” on this war anytime in the past 15 months, but haven’t, and then go on just a few sentences earlier to call it “Bush’s War?” Doesn’t pretending that it’s all Bush’s fault enable us to accept Democrats who are singularly unable or unwilling to stop the war, simply because they are not Bush (or Repbulicans)? And let’s not forget, it was a Democratic-controlled Senate, in 2002, that voted to give Bush the go-ahead.
Yeah, Cheney is evil incarnate, but evil does not succeed because of the acts of a few evil people, but rather by the inaction of the rest of us. I’m ready to go beyond bashing the neo-con warmongers and start going after our “representatives” in Congress who point to finger at Bush-Cheney while allowing the war to continue for their own political gain.
Ooh, this “discussion” is a neo-con’s wet dream.
I agree with what Howard Zinn wrote a few weeks ago (remember that far back?) - pulling the lever is the least of the things required of citizens. If that’s all you do, you ain’t a citizen, you’re merely a consumer.
To Michael Moore: I love your stuff man, but to this latest, I say, so? And add, no shit!
Bush’s War (or whatever you want to call it) airs tonight and tomorrow night on Frontline. We may already know it all. So? So, I’ll watch it anyway just in case I don’t already know it all.
HEY, MICHAEL:
MAYBE IF YOU HAD STOOD BEHIND DENNIS KUCINICH WHEN HE NEEDED YOU THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT???!!!!
MooreNEVER openly supported Kucinich, donated to him, endorsed him, or worked for him. Michael Moore is a cop-out! I used to think he was a great guy–but those days are over since the aforementioned anonymity. NOW he will endorse O-bummer because they are down to two celebrity candidates and BadRock is the lesser of evils! SHAME ON YOU, MICHAEL MOORE!!!
It’s Bush’s war and it’s Cheney’s war for Halliburton and KBR!!! That fact is unarguable ~Gordon~.
The Democrats and Nancy Pelosi insuring impeachment is off the table are at fault for not stopping it and pulling ALL of the troops out of Iraq and deserting that idiotic embassy and “Green zone”.
But they’re dammned if they do and damned if they don’t now. Gore or Kerry would never have stared the war with Iraq. Bush put the country into this mess and now the Democrats have to solve it. I don’t believe they can in any suitable manner.
You can be assured McCain won’t and you can be assured Nader, or any other third party candidate won’t either, because they’re pissing up a rope to run for the presidency and any who waste their vote for them are only doing so for useless, self gratification. They can later say, I didn’t vote for so and so, I voted for Nader, or Mary Anne Dufus and feel good about it. ___ Shit.
so? all this is irrelevant: u.s. ‘deploys nuclear sub to persian gulf’
www.presstv.ir
sub heading under middle east news.
GOING BY WARS ON A $HOWY EVENING
–Apologies to Robert Frost / Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening
Whose War$ these are I think I know.
His Cour$e is in the Pillage though;
He will not See me coming here
to watch his wars “fill up” with “$O?”
cont. @:
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3354/81/
–posted: comment # 8
If God had wanted to bless the USA . . . he ,it, or whatever that power is or was, would have prevented George Wanker Bush from becoming president of this nation. No, down here we are apparently on our own. And on our own I have been been stoned since yesterday (Easter). When faced with the self-destruction of this nation as symbolized by 4,000 dead in Iraq, it is certainly one effective way to deal with the problem. George Wanker Bush is the last scoop of mashed potatoes in the bottom of the rotten barrel. John Wanker McCain is the dregs of that barrel and he will be the next Numero Uno. As the German poet Friedrich Hebbel once pointed out: governments never learn anything from history or the lessons that can be deduced from it. We are faced with a future of more death, more blood, more debt and more eye-popping, jaw-dropping stupidity from our fellow citizens. Long Live Boo!
The Penguin fishing off the Sultan of Oman’s royal yacht inspires comparison between the present day petro-racket and the past various global rackets of the British, the Anglo-Americans and others. The opium racket, the spice rackets (cinnamon, tea, etc), the cotton racket, the tropical fruit racket. All rackets shared the essential features of grand scale, that production was geographically separate from consumption, requiring the consumer’s dependence on large producers, and that consumption could be controlled through marketing, and that consumer addiction and dependence could help control the consumer, particularly to help drive empire expansion.
“So?”
So, Penguin, one of the exercises in the new K-12 civics curriculum will go like this: Kids, what are the current and emerging global rackets and what local industry can you participate in to help snuff out those rackets and how will you celebrate your noble accomplishments?
The US is the richest and technologically most developed country in the world. This is too much of a temptation for any human being. Power corrupts and huge, barely limited power corrupts in the same ways; witness Bush and Cheney. Imperialistic policies follow, first abroad, such as in indonesia, guatemala, chile, irak and elswhere. Then, as some people realize the craziness and inconsistencies of these policies, the empire begins to crack down on its citizens at home; witness illegal surveillance and abuse of presidential power. Thus, extreme unchallenged size is the most serious enemy of a democracy. This won’t change regardless of who is elected president. The only salvation for the US democracy is to break up the country into several rich, smaller, hopefully decent countries. Whoever does not consider this a possible, though perhaps very long term, solution is adicted to the idea of a strong and dominant republic and, by definition, a republican. This makes most Americans republicans at heart, regardless of their stated political affiliation and explains the presence of Bush and Cheney and the weakness of democrats when push comes to shove.
Maybe that’ll be John McCain’s campaign slogan -
SO…?
More War, Less Jobs - SO…?
No More Habeas Corpus - SO…?
How many politicians do we have in this country?
What if four thousand of THEIR loved ones were dead because of this invasion?
Would it still be going on??????
God may not bless America, but She will bless you, Michael.
I know it’s not easy, but thank you for trying to wake us up.
IRS, “Our records indicate you have not paid your Federal Taxes”
Me, “So?”
Bush has no planes, no bombs, and if he had to fight a war he’d have to do it with the chain saw he uses on the ranch. It’s the “Democrat’s War”. They voted to fund it. Only the Congress has the power to declare and fund war. We have been bombing Iraq since 1991.
I’m voting for Nader.
Mike — as a fellow-Michigander, you gotta know our ‘war’-dead exceeded 4,000 in Iraq years-back (go ahead and count the ones on planes already-dead, so that they ‘don’t officially count’ until their DOA’s-elsewhere). And, dead-Iraqi’s number WELL over that million you mention.
[But, STILL less than what Clinton/Albright killed…! And, hugely-less than what Clinton/Gore-2008 will ‘rack-up’ — via starvation all-over the ME/3rd-World…]
Don’t ‘damn these people with faint-Praise’, Mike…give full “credit where it is due”.
[I expect better-efforts/fact-checking/objectivity from a Flint-boy…!]
Four thousand of our children and a million of theirs - none of whom will ever rise again on the third day. So? Only Warbucks count to these cruel and greedy liars!
Reading Odoco, Karlof1, so well-reasoned and Doom n’ Gloom, very moving, and most of the other very passionate folks convinces me the responses CD gets are WAY ABOVE AVERAGE and quite inspiring…….I understand the frustration….. but the revo ain’t ripe yet so despite strong questions I gotta go with the Audacity of Hope for 2008. I’m 75plus; I hope to “see” 2012 , but by then,if I’m still sucking air– my heart and gut may be forced into a more desperate place.Things could move very fast EITHER WAY!
[And I expect a better Editing-function in cd.org…”until they’re DOA’s-(counted)-elsewhere”…!]
And, I’ll see your “So?”, and add my “And?”:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7693
“The Post-Bush Regime: A Prognosis”
by Richard K. Moore
[Any relation of yours?]
MY TURN
I absolutlty love reading the passion you put into expressing yourself.
In regard to the ‘Bushs’ War’ controversy I would like to express my deepest appreciation for your concern. However, please consider the reasons behind their action, these men of means. I think a lot about what these people are saying behind closed doors.
I IMAGINE
A leader, looking out over his charges and seeing a lot of misery. Really all he sees is people propogating and wasting resources. He knows the stresses on the resourses and would like to continue in his own cozy way of life but it something isn’t done soon to bring the population into balance with what Mother Earth, then we are all going to freeze.
So what to do? Who decides who gets elected to sacrifice their lives for sake Mother Earths ability to provide comfort for everyone. People like Cheney are the ones who have the guts not to feel guilty that he gets our soldiers killed or maimed; to assure his and his ilk the comforts that they what to continue to enjoy. I can imagine they sometimes think while downing a shot of vodka: these people just don’t get it that they have the right to say no. I just hope they don’t all rise up one day and put us in our places.
I appreciate that you value human life and the efforts you have gone to to bring knowledge to the people whose lives you touch. So…. do you think we should go on propogating and continue to prolong life with surguries and treatment, particularly the elderly, that go extreme measures? Do we go back to the days when bypass surguries or, heaven forbid, transplants weren’t an option and let the elderly go back to dying at more reasonable ages in order to start depopulating the earth? Do you thinks it’s okay to let the population grow another 3 billion people?
How are we going to keep all these people warm and happy?
Posted by:
Mordechai Shiblikov March 24th, 2008 4:54 pm
-If God had wanted to bless the USA . . . he ,it, or whatever that power is or was, would have prevented George Wanker Bush from becoming president of this nation. No, down here we are apparently on our own. And on our own I have been been stoned since yesterday (Easter). When faced with the self-destruction of this nation as symbolized by 4,000 dead in Iraq, it is certainly one effective way to deal with the problem. George Wanker Bush is the last scoop of mashed potatoes in the bottom of the rotten barrel. John Wanker McCain is the dregs of that barrel and he will be the next Numero Uno. As the German poet Friedrich Hebbel once pointed out: governments never learn anything from history or the lessons that can be deduced from it. We are faced with a future of more death, more blood, more debt and more eye-popping, jaw-dropping stupidity from our fellow citizens. Long Live Boo!-
MeAlsoTo_ARealist, so true, everytime I read ALMOST 4000, which is bad enough that they can’t take 3 seconds to look up, at minimum DoD confirmed, they are not even aware the men and women that die in Military(Veterans)Hospitals? from traumatic injuries are not even counted as part of the DoD tally, not to mention in-country(Iraq)suicides are not counted either, but the true count is closer to 9000.
BaritoneWoman, that’s the answer BJ’s, got Clinton Impeached, yeah?
Not once did I hear anyone state the Obama “I support AIPAC.” statements. He has been trying to distance himself from the , OOOH he is a MOSLIM crap, for quite awhile. I don’t think he wanted to push it. As if Muslims are a bunch of al-Qaeda, Taliban, Shari’ah, whack-os. I wish once one of them, Romney, Obama someone would have answered, “I fervently support the First Amendment and feel it makes no difference.”
Of course the draft is going to be reinstated, no doubt. Cheney and the lot are rallying the crew to attack Iran, which Israel will be happy to comply with, 9/6/2007 and such.
I hold out 0 hope for this country, we are pre-Depression, bush says, “a bit of a slow down”, cheney, SO?, says “going through a rough patch” WTF???????????? It would have been nice if when Conda-lie-za, McInsane, cheney were in Iraq and the ME if they had encountered an RPG, IED or a Suicider, one can dream.
Thanks Michael Moore, after reading all that everyone was screaming at each other about I am sure you will understand why we are not storming by the millions to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
So?
rmax writes: “There are two ways to vote Republican in 2008: vote for them or vote 3d party.”
Ahh, but there are in fact *three* ways to vote Republican in 2008. You can
*vote for the Republicans
*vote for the third party
*vote for the Democrats
Hardly matters, because most of the votes will still be counted on Republican-made and -operated electronic voting machines.
Let’s see. The economy is going through a ‘rough patch.’
McCain doesn’t know much about economics so he’s going to study up by reading Greenspan, architect of our current problems, Bush is hosting easter egg rolls on the White House Lawn while the number 4000 of dead US soldiers pops up on the screen, and America will soon be celebrating the superiority of its’ athletes in Communist China. We recently celebrated “Good Friday,” although it’s hard to see how tacking a guy to a cross in a torture death was a good thing. What’s next? The Chinese capturing and executing the Dali Lama as a terrorist? Keep a suitcase packed.
This is not the year for a Nader vanity/spoiler cnadidacy. McCain isn’t a card carrying neocon, but Lieberman will be his minder. We need to get the radical neocons as far away from the white house as possible. The bread and butter republicans still don’t understand how dangerous these people are. They have their tax cuts and the war is almost a non-issue with them.
Don’t waste one vote. Independents like Cindy Sheehan in congress will be great. Obama or Clinton will have work with them to mintain a majority in congress.
I’ve decided I’ll not live long enough to see a true progressive ever elected President. What it appears to be coming down to is, can we stand to have another neo-con(J.M.)elected so he can further pack the Supreme Court with more crazies, or should we hold our noses and vote Dem in Nov. if the polls show the race close in our own state. At least that way we may get a couple crumbs off the table, rather than being left totally out in the cold.
COUNTING
Another way the 4,000 count is off - it does not include contractors who die in the war. Over 1,000 workers, who are not enrolled in the US military, but are paid by the US government to provide “services” in the war zone, have been killed during the invasion / occupation / war / fun and games in Iraq.
VOTING
Love to see all the passion and analysis, but as one poster noted, voting is the least of our responsibilities as citizens. Who among us is organizing our family, our community, our workplace, our friends and neighbors, to resist fascism, war, corporate rule? Or to build self-sufficiency from corporate food systems and economics? i would love to see some passionate discussion of all the non-party projects that we are involved in to resist the world of corporate war industry, and build the world we need.
SWEARING
Love to see all the passion, but when we are calling each other names, we are not doing anything worthwhile. Certainly, there are among us paid disruptors who purposely seek to feed spite and despair. Let’s stop feeding that fire, and burn something else instead.
billyboy1, this isn’t about the Supreme Court. There’s no way a Democratic president could successfully get anyone to the left of Scalia onto the Supreme Court. The Republicans in the Senate would filibuster, and they’d probably be joined by the Nelsons, Landrieu, and other DINOs.
All sensible, non-rigid political reformers, including Michael Moore, should cease invocations of ‘God’s Blessings,’ or ‘God Help Us’ nostrums/fiats, whenever advocating what can only be in the end human-willed spiritual and political change.
Granted: Some kind of incomprehensible Creator arguably gave us struggling, confused humans Rise; but It, Whatever It Is, is obviously not any kind of God that magically intervenes at the behest of our ego presentiments, or our political outlookds, nor reliably in the exercise of our inner, day to day conscience, or personal needs, or standard, brain mis-circuited worldly actions toward one another.
While acknowledging a Transcending, Unknown Higher Design which initially created us, and so-far supports our confused, violent, and mostly-embarrassing life on Earth, Humanity’s continued, mindless calls to God to solve humans’ Earthly problems nevertheless are, and will always remain a step backward for us still monkey-like creatures - both as a practical world-organizational matter, and as anything meta-cognitive or meaningfully religious, to boot.
So I say to you, Michael Moore: Keep doing what you’re doing [fine things]; keep educating the world to survive and prosper in the only way it can [by advocating that People Do Unto Others, etc.]
But leave magical thinking about God, out of it. Otherwise, you’re just reproducing, further legitimizing the bogus normative idiocy of Religious Arguments from Authority which fascist political leaders have used to bring common epistemology to the low state in which we currently find it.
I would ask you, Michale Moore: Hasn’t Humanity has just about enough of this disastrous metaphysical, certifiably-insane bullshit, that keeps pretending that God Approves of rotten, humanly-elitist Agendas?
I think so. Moreoever: I think you know so, too.
Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. It’s anal, you know. Sure, Hillary is spoiler to Obama supporters. Obama is a spoiler to Hillary supporters. And oh, here in Vermont where we have FOUR major parties, the front runner to beat the Republican incumbent, is???? Whaddya know? Anthony Pollina of the Progressive Party. No, NOT a Democratic Party Candidate. A Progressive Party candidate. Imagine that!!! And you know what? The Democratic Party has no candidate. They are trying to arm twist Peter Galbraith (economist) to run as a Democrat. But of course, by the Democratic Party logic adhered to on this front for the Democratic Party, Peter Galbraith would be a spoiler! No? By the way, we just passed instant runoff voting in Vermont and the Republican governor is probably going going to let it become law without signing it. All of this came about about because Vermont doesn’t call anyone who wants to run for any office “a spoiler”. They welcome them into the democratic exercise. So those of you Democrats who think you are going to win the presidential election in November by bashing Nader and his supporters, start sweating. The more you blame Ralph and exhibit your hostility the more votes you will lose. Besides, you can’t figure out which corporate backed war candidate you want.
Michael Moore has it right. Again.
Cheney is perhaps the most blatant members of our current administration in his disregard for the what anyone thinks other than he. The man is evil.
Regarding the Democrats, we cannot make progress until we have an Administration that will work with Congress (or at least play fair) as opposed to thumbing its nose at Congress, the American people, and the rest of the world. That is why I support Obama.
As for God, do believe it’s appropriate for those who believe in him to invoke his name. But I would not say “God Bless Us” or “God Damn Us”. I would say “Κύριε ἐλέησον” (from the Greek) or “Kyrie eleison” which means “Lord have mercy on us”. We will all ultimately come face to face with our God, and those who have not done what they can to help change America at this critical time will need all the mercy they can get.
God Bless you Michael Moore. You should run for office. We need more Democrats like you in office. You are smart. You are caring. You are right. You stand up to power. You don’t think you are perfect (and we know you are not - but you are pretty darn good).
Really. Run.
Hint: Help Al Franken get elected. It would be a good thing. And Al can lead the way for you to become Senator.
Vote anyway you want, just pick someone, anyone and then hold them accountable to the constitution. Or, go back and wait for another “so”.
wow riverman I think your right. Its like picking heads or tales when either result leads to murder and greed. The question simply is which innocent deaths do you have more of a problem with…..innocent babies or innocent civilians/marines etc?
Crushed infant skulls - or - bombed shelters
severed limbs from teh abortionist - or - limbs blown off from land mines and bombs?
riverman, spamalot.
riverman101
The real reason to limit posting length to less then both volumes of the Urantia Book.
riverman
The link you posted is an antiabortion site and has little or nothing to do with preventing Breast cancer. This is disengenuious posting on your part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-breast_cancer_hypothesis
treefrog whether you like it not its a statistical reality that actuaries the world over know of. Your wikireality isn’t the same as reality reality.
I object to more to the misrepresentation of the information and possible health consequences with biased information….
Gotta have more babies to fight World War III.
Political parties may come and go but the National Interest is constant.
Occupations/wars are easier to continue than to end. 93 years, 11 months, 10 days until the end of Iraq occupation. Patience y’all, patience.
riverman can’t help it. His preacher held his head under water too long during his baptismal ceremony down at the river. Poor guy.
riverman
Every medical procedure includes a risk/benefit analysis that would apply to abortion also, but you posted a link about breast cancer that is really about abortion and that is disingenuous.
To Cheney and others, GOD means Globalize Or Die. Those who help, get blessed (knighted) by the Queen, like Sir Bubbles Greenspan (thanks for trashing the economy Alan).
Other knights
Billy Graham - KBE (2001)
Bill Gates - KBE (2004)
General Colin Powell - KCB (1993)
General Wesley Clark - KBE (2000)
Rudolph W. Giuliani - KBE (2002)
George H. W. Bush - GCB (1993)
Ronald Reagan - GCB (1989)
General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. - KCB (1993)
Future knights
GWB
Cheney
Rummie
I wonder what Bill Clinton did wrong, oh, Monica, sorry. the Queen is kind of touchy about that kind of thing. Divorce is fine though.
Hey ~Riverman~, would you please do me a favor? Write, “Kem Patrick is dead meat” 500 times and post it here, so we can read it and “WEAP”. ___ BTW, I believe in breast feeding, big, medium or small, all women are wonderful. ___ Thanks Riverman.
YAY Michale Moore writes an article!
Hank Fur and Aloysha,
Please don’t despair. In fact, the Democratic Party has been taken over and changed for the better in the past fifty years. You may not remember, but the Democratic Party *used* to be the party of the Southern racists and bigots until Lyndon Johnson put Federal might behind the suppression of Jim Crow laws and annoyed the “Dixiecrats” enough that they deserted the party in favour of the Republicans, who’ve been held hostage by them ever since. It’s