Antarctic Glaciers Melting More Quickly
Antarctica’s massive coastal glaciers are quickly melting into the sea as the oceans around the continent grow warmer - and the pace of ice loss is speeding up.An international satellite network measuring the thickness of the glaciers as they shrink year by year has found that the glaciers have melted so rapidly during the past 10 years that the continent is losing almost as much ice as Greenland, according to researchers gathering the satellite data.
The team from Chile, England and the Netherlands is led by Eric Rignot, a radar engineer and glacier specialist at UC Irvine and NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory who has watched the shrinking glaciers and gathered data for the past 15 years from Canadian, Japanese and European polar-orbiting satellites.
Those satellites carry radar instruments that can measure the thickness of each glacier with remarkable accuracy, and they have now mapped more than 85 percent of the entire coastline of Antarctica, covering all the continent’s major glaciers.
Unlike Greenland’s coastal glaciers, where meltwater from the ice on the surface seeps down to the base of each glacier and lubricates it to speed its flow to the sea, the glaciers on Antarctica move down from the land as huge ice sheets and spread out over the ocean, where the thick glaciers are known as ice shelves.
For many years, scientists have watched some of these giant ice shelves breaking apart and crashing into the sea, and now more and more of them are melting as they move out over the ocean.
The cause: Antarctic waters like the Bellingshausen and Amundsen seas are warming, and as their water temperatures rise they melt the undersides of the ice sheets so the sheets become thinner and the seas intrude farther and farther inland - to melt still more of the ice, Rignot explained in a phone interview.
Although the effect of all this ice loss on global sea levels is still small - measured in a rise of only a few thousands of an inch each year so far from the melting in Antarctica - that increase has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, he estimated.
“We’re concerned that the rate of glacier melting will double rapidly,” Rignot said.
Ice loss is most pronounced in Antarctica’s Pine Island Bay region, where three major glaciers are losing ice fast, and on the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, Rignot and his colleagues reported.
Glaciers in those two regions alone lost about 212 billion tons of ice from 1996 to 2006 - an amount very similar to the total loss of ice on Greenland, Rignot and his team calculated.
The east coast of the Antarctic Peninsula is where two major ice shelves - called Larsen A and Larsen B - disintegrated in 1995 and 2002. Those immense events were among the most convincing early signals that global warming is real and dangerous.
The researchers calculated the increase in mass of the glaciers as snow has piled up on them, and compared those numbers with the losses due to melting into the sea. The calculations yield what Rignot and his colleagues term the “ice sheet mass balance,” and the overall result is increasingly negative, they report.
“Large uncertainties remain in predicting Antarctica’s future contribution to sea level rise,” Rignot said.
“The ice sheets are responding faster to climate change than (anyone) anticipated,” he said.
E-mail David Perlman at dperlman@sfchronicle.com.
© 2008 San Francisco Chronicle
Doesn’t matter how fast they melt. The United States will not take any useful or significant positive action until the water is a foot deep in the basement of the Capitol and the White House. And at that time it really won’t matter because it will be too late, way too late, even more so than it already is.
Just last week, a massive rift opened in the Anarctic Ice shelf. That incredible opening is now similar to our Grand Canyon, only much longer and of a far greater depth. That type of openings will greatly enhance the melting, and as the writers of this article state,__ “Large uncertanties remain in predicting Anarctica’s future contribution to sea level rise”.
Or in simpler terms, it’s melting fast and if you live near any coasts, you’d better think about selling out and move to higher ground, or build an ark. We’re talking about sea level rises of over 150 feet and it may happen far sooner than any wish to believe.
That is because, as the oceans warm, methane gas, which has been safely locked up in the ocean’s floor beds for over 50 billion years, is now being released in a rather frightening manner. The methane contributes far more CO2 into the atmosphere than all of the fossil fuels we burn, by a factor of times several hundred and global warming on a major and very fast scale will become a slam dunk.
There is no other water planet available for us to F##k up, so we’d better start thinking seriously about saving this one. __ Like today.
This subject is the MOST serious issue humanity has ever faced. Unfortunantly, it does not have the names of Cheney, Bush, Kucinich, Obama, Hillary or Ralph Nader on the title.
If more than twelve readers comment here, I will be very surprised. And if twelve do, two or more will be neo-con shills, writing the global warming problem does not exist, or it is nature, not humanity causing it.
A religious fundamentalist recently commented that, after Noah’s flood, God promised that the earth would not again be destroyed by flood. He said that the biblical text should be included as “data” in evaluating climate change and sea level rise.
It’s bad enough that ordinary people ignore the horrendous problems facing us and think that live will continue as it is now. It’s even more frightening to imagine what will happen if the religious right gain the upper hand and force their views on us.
I am 71. I’ve lived through some bad times. But I have never been so terrified as I am now. Somedays, it’s hard to look at the standard news and even scarier to check sites such as this where the news is real.
I’m 71 too Ruth, where did you go to school?
I had a 48 Buick convertable and lived near a drive-in theatre.
KEM PATRICK
something is definitely wrong (well we know that already)but i believe it’s getting faster and faster. here in southern europe we already have blossom on the trees and butterflies flitting around. i don’t know if this is the ‘norm’ for here at this time of the year, but i suspect not. also, a friend in northern spain recently told me the daffodils were in bloom. and i think i read last year at this time it was the same in n.y.c. whatever, it’s a big mess and will get messier before it’s finished.
RUTHK
people are in denial. it’s as simple as that. and until every last one of us on earth realize the severity of the problem, nothing will save us from the catasrophe that will be unleashed upon the planet earth.
KEM PATRICK
“I’m 71 too Ruth, where did you go to school?
I had a 48 Buick convertable and lived near a drive-in theatre.”
Indiana, that hot-bed of conservatism. There used to be a sign on one of the highways that read “Welcome to Indiana. Get out of the United Nations”.
I didn’t have a car until my mid-twenties. Too poor. Went to Indiana University back in the days when tuition was low and jobs were plentiful (but paid next to nothing, especially for women). Those of us with good scores on our entrance exams could pack up everything we owned in a couple of shopping bags and take a Greyhound bus to the university. If you didn’t mind working hard and living poorly, you could manage.
I feel really sick right now. I support the Natural Resources Defense Council. We thought that we had saved the whales, the wolves, the arctic wildfile refuge, and the polar bears. That monstrous Bush shugged us off and again changed everything. Sometimes, I think that I’ve lived too long.
God did promise that ~Ruthie K.~ God later said Earth would be destroyed by fire.
Well, when the ocean’s methane “burps”, it is a very explosoive gas and any lighting bolt could easily set it off. __ Ka-BOOOOMMMMMM.__ Such an explosion, would make 50 mega-ton hydrogen bombs going off, more like fire crackers in comparrison.
P/S, I see you were never in my Buick. Hang in there granny, and see the fireworks show.
Don’t know if that’s God’s plan, but we sure are insuring it is gonna happen, if we don’t get our shit together and do something productive to slow down the global warming.
Kem, I agree that it’s sad that people are more inclined to be drawn to itsy-bitsy problems than to this.
As someone who has halved the family’s energy consumption twice in the last decade, despite living at 312 feet, I’d like to provide that neo-con shill perspective, as it looks like they’re not going to show up…
“Are you nuts? This is fresh water we’re talking about here! Way more than enough to provide for everyone’s needs. You’re probably one of those people who claim that fridges and air conditioners contribute to global warming, too.”
Hi~CoCo~ I knew you would be here babe. Thanks for the astute observations. Get ready for the Dodos to arrive.
Kem:
Its still somewhere between a total non-issue and a “lip service” issue. I saw news footage of Hillary campaigning in NJ, and she lists global warming along with her other usual topics. No specific actions proposed, of course. At least she doesn’t deny it.
I just saw the article reporting of some 2900 questions during presidential debates there were only 4 about GW, and of all the Sunday Morning network candidate inteviews only 3 or 4 questions in over 2000. There were almost more questions about UFOs.
No presidential candidate can be elected at this time proposing what we really have to do about warming. Its going to have to get worse first. Its already too late for a smooth transition to sustainable GHG balanced energy sources. Sooner or later we’re going to have to pick up the pieces.
I’d like to think that, despite the neocon Colonel Blimps in the White House securing Iraq’s oil, there is someone somewhere, a future Eisenhower or Marshall, planning the contingencies for shutting down our wasteful carbon economy (or dealing with sudden climate change) without riots and starvation.
Fresh water ~BIG_MONEY~? __ Yeah, 90% of all of the fresh water in the entire world, was locked up in the Anarctic ice. However, once that fresh water has joined the ocean’s waters, it is no longer what we consider as FRESH potible water.__ Are you nuts? __ You wrote the crazies are not going to arrive and then made a liar out of yourself. __ LOL.
Of course the rising water is actually not the MAJOR probem, it’s the methane gas release that is the major concern Big Money.
Don’t make assumption Big Money, I’m not one of those who worry about air conditioneng and friges. I do worry about burning coal, and vehicles that run on oil based fuel and only get 30 mpg or less. There are many reasons for global warming and the Greenhouse gas effect on our delicate biosphere. Those most probematic issues are my first concern.
BR-001, good post! __ John Edwards is the only presidential candidate, who has promised to work to promote clean energy and has not supported either coal or nuclear power.
It’s crazy how the GW issue has been manipulated out of the MSM by people attacking Al Gore and various hitjobs on the scientific community…DENIALISTs are co-opting the facts and killing us. Damn…
As true fascists, all of us, we are incapable of doing anything except to give in to the irresistible urge to plunge headlong towards the destructive forces of hell.
Whether this is caused in part or not by man is irrelvent.
The United States government should mandate and fund the use of hot-rock geothermal throughout the United States. We have a ridiculous amount of availeable energy of this type for the grid.
Solar should be pursued via tax credit for homes and businesses where they can supplement or replace the grid.
Credits should also be applied to anyone and anycompany or group that makes internal combustion vehicles able to run on at min. 50% hydrogen gas as well as gasoline.
This will do the following:
Kill the push for nuclear power.
break the oil monopoly
solve the emission problem with sole gasoline power
create a free market or should I say a local market for transportation energy.
PURRRR-FECT ~BRONTOBURGER.~
Sorry, Kem, I was trying to be as absurd as possible, but it’s hard to parody neo-conese when it’s so absurd to start with.
I actually once did the math and wrote a letter to the Mayor scolding him for allowing the electric company to spend $500 million on a new generating plant, when someone could have used the money to buy modern, energy efficient fridges and give them to anyone with a 20-year-old fridge for free, and there would be approximately the same extra capacity in the grid during peak hours as if they’d built the plant. Right away, not in 5 years when the plant is completed. I never heard back.
I’ve heard that there’s CO2 frozen up in there with the methane, so we’ll get a whole plethora of bad acceleration when it burps its way on out…
Hi Kem! Flirting with all the gals again as usual. By the way, I think Big Money was trying to be funny. I don’t think he was serious because he put his comment in quotes.
Yep, kids, we got trouble right here in River City. And they are going to keep sweeping it under the rug because the oil and coal companies have control of the government and the MSM. Life as we have known it is definitely going to change radically. The only up side to this is that I’m old. Too bad about the kids and grandkids though…….
For one who is known to at times be overly sarcastic, I should have caught it ~Big Money~. Please pardon my senior moment.
Flirting? No way Rebel. ___ I was serious.
Hi all,
I live in an area that is mostly left of center politically, (much to the chagrin of the right wingers as evidenced by their vitriolic responses to articles), and in today’s newspaper there was a small article claiming that “researchers” have found that volcanic activity under the western side of Antarctica was causing warming and subsequent melting of the ice shelf. Like the prediction of earthquakes, “they” say this particular volcano has not blown in 2300 years and is due. Hmmmm….Of course neither the researchers nor their groups were identified,…therefore no follow up on the validity of this information can be pursued.
I saw another article, maybe on CD, about that western ice shelf about to drop in, and it’s about the size of Texas.
Eee gads!
Besides the rise in sea level inundating coastal regions and submerging small islands, the dilution of saline will kill off many species of fish.
I’ve heard also that there will be less and less water available for us to drink and use in the future. Making lemonade from lemons should promote the building of desalinization plants….won’t help the fish any (unless they can return the extracts to the oceans), but might be a help to the other situation. I visited a US destroyer once and was impressed by the drinking water produced on that ship, as on every Navy ship.
Of course, getting a grip on the environmental factors speeding the melt would be the best focus.
PAX Marianne
…oh, and along the lines of lemonade from lemons…
Methane can be harvested from the melting tundra and used to power auto engines and others. I’m surprised some enterprising energy group has not contacted the Russians about this since they have a massive field of tundra releasing methane in their thaw. The Russian economy could sure use a boost, and we could provide a win-win solution to this specific problem.
Where are the “problem solvers?”
Marianne
Some of the “problem solvers” have assumed that people were given a choice, did the wrong thing, now it’s too late to restore the atmosphere as we know it, so they’re looking into launching billions of mylar mirrors into orbit to bounce the sun’s energy back into space. I have a paranoid theory that a mild nuclear winter is all part of the plan.
I miss the birds ten years ago I filled my feeders once a day now maybe once a week. Guess that’s why they used canaries in coal mines.
There is just far, far too much methane to ever use for commercial purpses ~Marianne~. It’s bubbling up in huge amounts from the sea beds all around the planet now.
It is not just that enourmous amount frozen in the Arctic’s perma-frost. It’s named Methane hydrates on the ocean floors and it only requires the water temp to rise a few degrees to enable it to release. There has always been some bubbling out, but not to the degree it currently is now and will progress, if the ocean’s water temperatures continue to rise.
54% of Americans believe in creationism.
69% of Americans used to believe Saddam Hussien was involved in 9-11.
40% in 2007 still believed the Saddam myth.
59% of American high school graduates between the ages of 16 and 25 are functionally illiterate, incapable of coping “adequately” with the complex demands of everyday life reports the OECD.
17% of Adults in America are scientifically literate.
Have most of you visited or worked at the top end universities? A large minority and in some cases a majority of professors and students combined are from abroad. Indians, Chinese, Europeans, Canadians,…etc. represent the core of scientific investigation and research in physical and biological sciences in this country. Americans don’t do thinking!
The reason this issue isn’t covered is because most people, especially people in older less educated generations unfortunately, aren’t grounded or even remotely versed in science and empirialism, logic, reason, and probabalistic risk analysis. Think about how most people think, it’s through rumor, innuendo, pseudo-facts, where non sequetors flourish like weeds.
This is humanity.
Martin Luther King Jr. said “Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.”
T4, what percentage think that Jeezuz is coming back soon with his flamethrower and whatever the case re what GW is and who’s doing it is all part of God’s supposed plan?
Huge changes are coming.
Our entire way of life will change–cars, suburban living, where we get our food.
Many folks will pass away unfortunately.
Climate chaos, peaking oil production, rising seas, and extreme weather—and of course, more wars.
But humanity will survive into the 22nd century, but I suspect in more localized communities and further north where lands are still habitable.
Your kids may still fly on a jet plane, but your grandkids won’t.
Big_Money:
Probably the same number who believe they will one day win the lottary or go to casinos and believe they, unlike the other guy, will hit BIG MONEY!!
I stayed at Holiday Inn the other day, so it proves I’m really smart.
Well, KEM, they’re experimenting here with collecting methane from the landfill and powering some buses with it…saw that in the paper a year ago. Maybe I was dreaming, or I’m being scammed with false information. I guess I just want to believe there are some folks out there who will use their brainpower for good works.
Marianne
NeoCON Response:
But KEM,
Just think of all the oil and minerals we could mine when all that ice melts! We’d have enough oil for every American to drive FIVE Hummers. No, we couldn’t afford health care or education, but, THINK of all the URANIUM we could open-strip mine out of there letting us build Thousands of Nuke plants in every state.
THEN, we could peg the worthless dollar to Uranium instead of oil and those dumb common citizens who voted for us would experience a Four-fold increase in Utilities (since the Rothschild’s banks and the Royal Family along with the One Percent Club here in the states would monopolize all fuel on the planet!)
Just Think, The Banks would have enough to lend out the capital for several world wars!
You think I’m kidding?
This may be real. Read Paul M’s link from yesterday. If you can get through all the powerpoint slideshow links on the left, it’s clear the Rothschilds have been getting us into fake wars for a long time. If you can’t, suffice to say, these bankers were involved in the assasination attempts of several U.S. presidents. Getting us all killed in Global Warming is O.K. with them as long as they make a short-term profit. Caution, it’s a hateful site, but if you get through it all, it becomes clear most of our great presidents Jackson, Lincoln, T.R. have had great problems having THREE War-Mongering Rothschild FEDERAL BANKS shoved down our throats.
The root of all evil:
http://iamthewitness.com/doc/RothschildsTimeline-filer/frame.htm
does anyone have a link to more detailed information about the methane gas release from the oceans and how they interact with the atomosphere?
But it is nuts….to see different groups of people concerned of different things. Before I came here I was at a New York Times financial forum and there’s people shouting about letting capitalism and competition run loose to recover the “economy”. Apparently the term “economy” to SOME of them is equivalent to opportunities to make more money and nothing else. they doesnt seem to think about the limited resources this planet has, doesnt think about how horrible effects there will be once “developed countires” develop their consumer industry to the same degree as US’s, and the growing human population worldwide….population that will most likely contribute more to consumerism in the future……they live in a small cocoon and is oblivious to the consequences of all the things that made their cocoon lifestyle possible. And the saddest of all, they are also people that held most power.(the whole industrial social/political structure is falwed!) Just to be extrmely pessimistic for now, If you ask me, the fate of human was decided the day tools are developed that enabled a community to have a surplus of food that enabled some poeple to be freed from their basic biological concerns. And screw “professionalism”!!
WELL SAID T4 phage. . .with those facts assuming they are true and they feel right to me, we can be certian that democracy is going to be the shining future for America? The Bush program of “every child left behind” will guarantee another Republican victory next time around but I believe these eight years coming will be the beginning of the end.
There is no stopping what has begun and one does not have to be too intelligent to figure that out. However, the technologists are working on fake trees for the environment working better for C02 sequestration. Wall street is working on a big IPO for it; so don’t worry too much about deforestation and the opening of the Alaskan forests.
I should add,
I haven’t verified any of this, but I intend to do so with Wikipedia since they are not under control of MSM which these banks directly or indirectly own.
No sane person would let the planet melt unless some other dark force was at work forcing business as usual.
What we have here gentlemen all, is a real Da Vinchi Code
Cheers,
pac
Uh Oh,
There looks like there’s a lot to it. (To War-for-Profit taking precedence over Global Warming)
Read for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschilds
(I hope my links are not screwing up anyone’s browser.)
IMHO, the reason Bush has looted the U.S. treasury is that he is in bed with the European Banks of Europe (and will make a killing with the massive U.S. trillion dollar debt) through the Walker side of his family. As many of you know, the Walkers with Harriman (sp?) have a long history of lending money through central banks to governments who need cash to pay for their wars, including of course, the infamous 1930’s and 1940’s Germany military buildup, which Prescot Bush (shrub’s Senator Grandfather) was investigated for violating the “Trading with the Enemy Act.”
Some of you may have trouble bridging the gap between Skull and Bones maneuvers like these and the need for these families to keep burning oil to stay flush with cash. This is the prime reason no alternative energy was allowed to be developed for the last Thirty years. This is the reason the poles are melting and nobody can do anything to stop it.
For me, the connections are becoming very clear. The plot Thickens as they say.
pac
~Marianne~ Indeed methane gas piped out of garbage dumps is used for power plants. It is not olny a good surce of energy, it prevents underground fires in garbage dumps. Staten Island is one good example, but there is absolutely not enough people and or equipment on this planet, to contain the methane gas which is located in the soil on the ocean’s floors.
For an analogy: Imagine if you had a 55 gallon drum of gasoline and you personally had to use it all in your vehicle in 30 days. You could do that. But what if you had to use all of the gasoline in a tank the size of lake Erie in 30 days? It’s that big of a difference. I also do not know, what effect burning the methane would have on the atmosphere. I don’t imagine it would help at all.
~BINNN~ For the best reference, google Arctic methane gas. There are severalexcellent articles, some of course are way outdated and some are written by government sources. I’d ignore those. The government agencies ignore the problem or attempt to deny it.
Here in Scandinavia we are getting flower buds popping out of the earth right now, in January. I’ve never seen that before. These used to arrive in April. We’ve yet to see any snow. To say that the weather is bizarre would be a huge understatement. It’s outright freaky. In a way it’s nice. Not so cold which makes your daily life easier. But then you think about the consequences on a global level and realize that some snow and flowers popping up in April would be quite alright. It’s amazing that the world is still sitting on it’s ass about all this. Just shows how addictive greed is when your rich and how paralyzed regular people are. Keep hoping that humanity will wake up, but i don’t really believe it. As a species we are truely one fucked up head case.
Google arctic methane gas and scroll down to the article, “Arctic methane gas is a time bomb”. There are (”400 gigatons”) of methane in the Arctic tundra alone. That’s the tip of the melting iceburg.
KAHALAB: The thing about flowers in January is that there’s plenty of room, time-wise, for a frost or two to show up. Last year my rhodedendrons opened to a display of shocking pink in February and boom, a frost came in, end of flowers for a season. Imagine the bearing on birds and insects? Nature’s fundamental RHYTHMS are off-kilter and the mating cycles of birds, bees and related organic kin may not be able to adapt to these unprecedented syncipated signals.
KEM: Here’s what I don’t get… if there is already this much evidence of melting of both ice caps, why don’t we see any sea rise yet? (I am far from disputing global warming, I just wonder why the levels have been conservative thus far. I live maybe 20 feet above sea level near the Florida coast, so naturally this is OF interest to me. I also live a life of pretty solid conservation, apart from the occasional drives which are work-related.)
Hi ~Sue~. Only about 6% or so has melted so far, but the melting accelerates daily. The ice caps should not be melting at all, they should be building some. With Earth’s present orbit position of our sun, we should be in a mild cooling period. The ice cap’s melting could be likened to a coal fired freight train, it starts slowly and takes time to build up steam and speed.
The oceans have risen only an inch or so in the northern and southern hemispheres. Due to the rotation of the planet, the oceans swell more near the equator. There are lots of south Pacific islands where the water has already risen a few feet and many atolls have disappeared beneath the waves. The worst is a ways off. Scientists are not sure of which will come first, dramatic sea level rises, or enormous releases of the methane gas trapped in icy calathrates in the ocean’s beds. ?
When the methane releases, global warming will accelerate in a “dramatic fashion” and the ice will then melt much faster, then more methane will “burp” out into the atmosphere. A vicious cycle and nothing to stop it. Just how fast it all happens is partially guess work. In the past year, the scientists were aabsolutely stunned at how much faster the ice caps had melted. It was much worse than ANYONE had predicted.
http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPageDsp.cfm?id=11892&Lang=eng
Check out the Quikscat animation on this page showing the progression of Arctic ice between Sept 7, 2007 and Jan 4, 2008.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this looks like a major loss of multiyear Arctic ice in last few months…
When 2008 melt season begins, the increase in solar energy being absorbed by the Arctic Ocean will not be negligible.
I guess two to three years when the weeping and wailing will commense.
I think we will all be saved by a shouting man in a white robe with a big beard who comes out of the sky with a giant flamethrower in a blood rage and smites thine enemies!
Also, I do not believe in erosion! Therefore I shall be saved! So sayeth the Lord!
The melting off of the Arctic ice will signal the beginning of the end.
~Heavyrunner~ Erosion??? __ Help!__ I don’t want to believe in it either then. What erosion?
Did you mean erection?
Siouxrose,
Also part of the issue re: lack of substantial rises in sea levels is the fact that much of the ice that has melted has been sea ice, which doesn’t cause a rise as it melts. The s–t will really hit the fan when it’s the land-based ice melting, but by then we’ll have a lot more crazy things happening to worry about, most likely.
Hi TWY, good point. Have you read my e-mails?
What we need is a better method of using wind power.
In colleges today legacy children of the neocons are being trained to run the world. A new generation of Bu$hes etc. will soon be yelling surf’s up dude. Or is it serfs up dude, thats right lift that kegger. Ya got the coke?
Times are good for the elite.
Just to clarify the statement from thewonderingyou: “…melted has been sea ice, which doesn’t cause a rise as it melts.”
This is not because of salinity but because ice expands and takes up more space than water. Just as ice in a glass of ice water doesn’t cause the level to overflow the glass, melting of the sea ice also doesn’t cause the sea level to rise. Adding new water, or ice to the mix, as would be the case of melting of land based glaciers, can/will definitely cause our cup to runneth over.
ROSE & FELLOW DWELLERS BELOW 50 FT ELEVATION,
The reason you don’t see it yet is that so far, it’s mostly been just floating sea ice that’s melted. Floating ice that melts does not make the ocean rise. But we all know that glacier melting Does make the Ocean Rise (a little.) And the floating Ice has been what’s been holding the glaciers in place at the shoreline. Also the floating ice has been keeping the sea-water/air temperatures low by bouncing thermal energy back into space.
Now if the glaciers go, you still won’t get a big rise in worldwide sea level. But guess what holds up the huge ice-cap in Greenland? The glaciers.
For Review:
The floating Sea Ice keeps the glaciers cold
The Glaciers hold the ice-cap in place (keep it cold)
The ice-cap is what will flood the earth (Twenty feet if Greenland breaks up.)
So here’s the countdown and here’s what we should all be keeping an eye out for on the internet:
1. Percentage of remaining Arctic Sea Ice each year in Oct.
Percentage of remaining Antarctic Sea ice in March (reverse seasons.)
2. Glacier retreat.
3. Amount of thinning and “moulins” pooling on top of Greenland’s ice-cap and the 1500 foot lake below it.
4. Air Temperatures in the Arctic/Antarctic.
And even then, Rose, if you are inland you’re safe for a while. Sea-water, as I understand the tides, will only wipe out the coast at the confluence of high astrological tide and low atmospheric pressure (storm.)
This is what happened in New Orleans.
Of course, all these scientific predictions have been way too conservative, but that’s because we don’t really understand how fast all this can accelerate. I believe, but cannot prove, that due to centrifugal force of the earth rotating the excess sea-water will congregate at the equator as the atmosphere does. The Atmosphere is essentially a big Ocean of air which is much taller at the equator.
As they said in the movie “Armageddon”: “It happened before. It WILL happen again.”
In other words, the apparent hight of the ocean will seem the same (kinda like the little wave that grows into a tsunami as it closes on the coast) until a storm.
But with more sea water out there, your hurricane surge will no longer be eight feet, but TWENTY FEET.
I have oversimplified the behavior of tidal systems for clarity. Type in “What makes the tides” into: ask dot com for a real education. Even the depth and width of the body of water plays a big part in determining the tides. For instance the west coast only has two tides a day, where the East coast has four (high low)
Man I miss my boat (ark)
Hey Pac, if the sea levels rose even say 15 to 20 feet, what happens to the rivers? Wouldn’t they back up and chart new rotes to the sea? The Deleware, the Hudson, Mississippi, Amazon and the Nile, etc.
I understand that if the Anarctic ice melts, the sea levels will rise over 100 feet, add in the ice in the north pole areas north of the Arctic Circle, Greenland etc. 150 feet?
Coal fired plants in the world release near four billion tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every single year. The United States contributes over half of it. We know that carbon dioxide traps heat in the atmosphere and burning coal is the first biggie.
Another is, Millions of people cook every day with charcoal and solar ovens are readily available and could be used much of the time. They work just as well as any electric oven. In addition, millions of trees could be saved in the Amazon, which are now cut down for making charcoal. We humans are gonna get exactly what we deserve.
just roughly went through Pac’s link on that familiy dynasty……I am really dizzy right now…… Yikes!!!!
Is there any doses of remedy that can offset this incomprehensible insecure feeling that is suddenly injected into me?
And it seems before these problems are fixed, or are on their way to be fixed, opting for alternative “passive” energy such as solar or wind energy will perhaps delay nature’s wrath but will dump more food to feed the crows that played a large part in causing it in the first place!
Don’t know…I’ve lost faith in this so called “civilization” so many different men had worked so hard to build up with their hopes and dreams for the past thousands of years. From the way it looks, it’ll be tens of generations and many more uncertain rough road ahead before mankind will even be able to shake off the negative effects that’s present today. And G…who knows what can go wrong tomorrow!!
Where is Mount Trashmore?
Good points KEM. Yep, I think you’re stating some real truths here. When I lived in Florida in 2005 most of the lower docks went underwater every other week or so. I thought to myself: what fool builds a dock that goes underwater at high tide? Neighbors had never seen it so high and speculated that they must be opening up the floodgates at Lake Okeechobee all the time. I noticed that the river always seemed to be deeper than charted, and that the river heights (fender scales) on the bridges didn’t match any of the predicted bridge chart tables. All up and down the ICW they were four feet in error, mounted so that four feet of additional water over the limit would still let your yacht pass under the bridge. Like they were expecting a flood.
Then a few days later Katrina flooded New Orleans.
Creepy.
Correction this flooding was in 2005 and 2006.
Sorry binnnn, I didn’t say it would be easy. I only said that if you take the red pill instead of the blue pill, you would stay in CD wonderland and that it would be the truth.
I’m afraid we are all trapped in “The Banking Matrix” and that there are “agents” everywhere.
No, there’s no way to go back into a neo-con coma. But if you could, would you really want to?
pac “Morpheus” plyer
Our world has made a Faustian bargain: let everyone use oil for making life easier for 150 or so years in exchange for environmental catastrophe after. We have now come to the point where we have to pay for our shortsightedness. Oil is critical to maintain a population which has grown beyond the planet’s normal carrying capacity. The price to be paid will be in environmental catastrophes which create more wars for resources along with more authoritarian rulers who will apply increasing militaristic solutions to increasingly desperate populations. The next 10 to 20 years is going to be truly terrifying.
-pac
Though the dynasty looks strong right now, I do sense different aspects of weaknesses at different places, but before any outragous claims are made let me live a bit longer in this mess to see and understand more.
Mean while, let me go read a book written by Adam Smith. I really whish I had more incentive to actually learn something instead of only getting a good mark back in my economics class……
And no, Morpheus is not cool in my book ( I hate most movies =P )so out of repect to my respect to you, please dont take on his role…haha
More rape and destruction of the natural world that nobody who can do anything cares about, and it is just a matter of time untill mother nature fights back worse then ever. I dont remember where i read it but the predicted 50 years of human existance might just be correct.
KEM PATRICK
no, he meant ‘election’. (he’s chinese.)
BINNN
here’s something on methane devourers: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061019100814.htm
KAHALAB
i thought it was bad enough that the same thing is happening here in southern europe and northern spain………..but scandinavia???? scarier and scarier………….
Glaciers in those two regions alone lost about 212 billion tons of ice from 1996 to 2006
The MSM is not reporting the info in a very useful way. Absolute numbers are almost totally useless. The people need percentages.
Well Binnnn,
Just trying to inject a little comedy into this hopeless situation. I guess I’ll give my Neocon Matrix routine a rest. From now on, KEM’s in charge of gallows humor, his dry wit is a lot funnier than mine.
Adam Smith was great, but his beliefs were about competition and small businesses in a mercantile setting; not transnational monopolies that crush everything in their path. This Global Bully World Trade with the Military as a means to coerce terms through violence and war has nothing to do with what Adam Smith wrote about or believed.
To wishfullthinker:
I think the bar for being considered “scientifically literate” is much lower than that. I’m a botanist who specialized in the tight corner of human-plant chemical interactions. My BS in Botany affords me with the linguistic ability to understand most botanical (and phytochemical, biochemical, pharmacological) research out there, but I certainly wouldn’t expect the layman to grasp the nuances and depth of what I read. Indeed, there are times when I envy ignorance. There is definitely too much to keep track of in the scientific publishing arena.
But basic “scientific literacy” (i.e. a glass of water with ice cubes in it does not change in terms of water height as the cubes melt) is sorely lacking in the general population. Very simple stuff–which I must credit Al Gore as a very good teacher in the film “An Inconvenient Truth” for presenting to mass audiences–is really all that is required here, whether it be predator-prey relationships, emmissions-versus-sequestration balances, and even purchase or not purchase ramifications.
I live on a teacher’s salary. Granted, it’s handsome compared to teachers in the U.S., but I know for a fact that it’s possible to live a satisfying life without the excesses assumed necessary in America.
Totally non-related, I think pacplyer is entirely entitled (there goes my affinity for alliteration again!) to co-opt the moniker “Morpheus.” Rumor has it we’re in the same country: if I should ever be so lucky to meet him, I’ll be sure to take the blue pill.
wishfullthinker, you ask
“17% of Adults in America are scientifically literate.
What the hell does this mean?”
I think RuthK above has a very illustrative example:
“A religious fundamentalist recently commented that, after Noah’s flood, God promised that the earth would not again be destroyed by flood. He said that the biblical text should be included as “data” in evaluating climate change and sea level rise.”
And for how long did the Neocons insist there was no such phenomenon as global warming or climate change?
The republican party actually seems hell-bent on destroying the planet itself. Why haven’t these people been declared; “A Clear and Present Danger?”
Hey, Great Bear, maybe we could have them all involutarily committed to a psych ward somewhere for being “a clear and present danger to themselves or others”. Let’s start with the dick.
Kem: You lost the bet! We are over 70 comments now.
Thank you KEM and PAC and WONDERING YOU for explaining the rise of the waters… I was planning on getting a small boat this summer. And I know offshore islands with fresh water sources. Maybe it’s time to get some sailing lessons?
As president of the United States, the Bush administration MUST be in the know concerning these issues we’re discussing (and many more were not!) Which leads us to the question… If he knows, which we assume he does, why is he allowing it to continue without even attempting to make things better. Not only is he not doing anything, he’s doing things that make the situation even worse!
Is he insane (I’ll assume not), is he that ignorant (maybe… well, no, he is president, he must be a little smarter than you or I!) does he care (yes, he has children and a legacy).
So, I’ve come to an elaborate conclusion… He knows something we don’t. Somewhere along the line, he was privy to information that is well secured from the public’s eyes.
Sometimes I consider that that information is religious based. Does he have some form of proof (I say proof because something this gi-normous isn’t done on a hunch), some form of proof of Armageddon, or some version of it? And he is fulfilling the prophecy of the coming of Christ by ensuring the arrival of The End of Times?
Nah, maybe he is just that ignorant.
www.oneplanetonelife.com
I’ll be delighted to teach you how to sail Susie
Mt. Trashmore is in VA Beach, and I think it’s the highest point in the whole area…a big pile of trash, now a park, but since it was put together decades ago I’m not sure of the ecological effect on the water table.
The reason sea levels have not risen much, yet, is simply because most of the melting ice is not land bound, so when it melts it does not raise sea level. However, there are huge land locked glaciers, and these have the potential to raise sea levels by up to 70 meters (~220 feet).
From:
http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/sea.level.faq.html
”
In terms of the ice, there are five identifiable reservoirs, only one of which is expected to be able to have catastrophic effects on sea level. They are sea ice, mountain glaciers, the Greenland ice sheet, the East Antarctic ice sheet, and the West Antarctic ice sheet. The one expected to be potentially catastrophic is West Antarctica. Catastrophic is taken to mean meters of sea level in a few hundred years or less.
(…)
West Antarctica is the joker in the deck. Sea ice we can ignore (for sea level that is). Greenland and East Antarctica seem to be inclined to balance each other’s effects. But West Antarctica represents 6 meters of sea level that _can_ collapse rapidly as glaciologists measure things.
The collapse mechanisms rely on the peculiar geometry of the West Antarctic ice sheet. The first major feature of West Antarctica is that it includes two large ice _shelves_. These are masses of ice approximately the size of France, approximately 500 meters thick. They float on the ocean, so cannot directly change sea level if they were lost. The peculiarity of having ice shelves is that ice shelves are dynamically unstable. The stable configurations are for the ice sheet to advance all the way to the edge of the continental shelf, or to collapse to include no ice shelf.
Why should we worry about the presence or absence of the ice shelves? They can’t change sea level if they disappeared. But the ice shelves serve another role in West Antarctica. The Filchner-Ronne (in the Weddell Sea) and the Ross Ice shelf (in the Ross Sea) act as buttresses to the West Antarctic ice sheet. Without these buttresses, the West Antarctic ice sheet will collapse into the ocean on a time scale of several decades to a few centuries.
(…)
The players, Size (approx), Speed (approx)
Sea Ice, 0.4 cm, years
Mountain Glaciers, 10’s cm, decades
Thermal Expansion, 20 cm –> per degree warming, per km of ocean warmed - decades
West Antarctica, 5 meters, a few centuries
Greenland, 5 meters, several centuries
East Antarctica, 70 meters, several centuries to millenia
“
And a de-salinator, Souixrose
Hi ~SIcWILLY~ Scroll up to Pacplayers comment at 7pm on the 26th. Read that link, it is a double whammy eye opener and it will fully explain what you are wondering about Bush and the Neo-cons. It’s a long read, but well worth the time. I believe Paul M Smith first posted it here at Common Dreams a month or so ago.
It should be required reading for all students, starting with fifth graders.
Yeah Rebel, How ya doin? I am surprised. Of course there are about 30 bloggers, if you subtract my blatthering, but that’s far more than I expected.
Guess I should put our little place in Cape May up for sale. I wasn’t planning on watching the sea rise in my retirement (some day). Dang market! Can’t get 4 times what we paid for it any more.
SikWilly: I don’t get it either. Their own pros in NOAA, NASA, JPL, the military and other agencies tell them what’s happening every day. They fund and provide much of the data IPCC and others use.
Their religion is “the market”. I guess they will act on global warming when there is some money to be made from it. Maybe Obama will listen.
And a cattle prod for kem
Oh, no! I meant use it to keep him in the stern. I’m getting silly here. Sorry.
Hi ~Lonecloud~ that was some valuable info, thank you. The major problem we all face however is not the rising sea levels, it’s the release of the methanee gas. That is a clear and present danger and a very serious issue.
pacplayer, thanks for taking the time to read the
http://iamthewitness.com/doc/RothschildsTimeline-filer/frame.htm
link and to try to verify its accuracy. I’ve seen other sources with the same info, so I no longer question it. The nut to crack is what we can do about it/them. Anyone who gets too close to the truth they squash like a bug (Kennedy & Lincoln are the best examples), and they are masters at deception, obfuscation, confusion, MSM manipulation & control, etc. Hell, at one time they reportedly owned half the world & the world’s resources, but their greed & lust for power knows no bounds; they want it all, and everyone as their slaves, financially and/or physically. They are feudalistic oriented and believe money insulates them from ecological holocaust, and even DU contamination. Man, are they in for a rude awakening when the atmosphere collapses, and the oxygen becomes scarce because the providers of it (mostly plankton & rainforests) suffer massive die-offs. Maybe they are in contact with the pilots of the mysterious craft multitudes of Texans witnessed on Jan 8, who knows? As for your query about Bush trying to speed up the Rupture…err rapture, SikWilly, well the supposed ’spaceship’ was seen in Texas of all places, wasn’t it? Just a thought…maybe what I need right now is a beer or something LOL.
-pac-
Reguardless, I’m sure I’ll still learn a lot from Mr. Adam. Just to bring up something interesting, when I seriously want to read a book, the first time I read I zip through it and only graps a general “feel” out of the book(something like the feeling you get when you look at a scenery that stirred up something inside of you). Then I go back to read again, this time focusing on very specific points which I deem most significant and dissect and memorize those; and then I go back to continue read it over and over again(as my experiences in life grows), identifing writer’s tone, his moral stand (or position)in related to the issiue, his choice of words, the reasons behind his choice of words,the detailed cause’n effects in his works….etc etc….there’s so many different dimensions of knowledge and things you can learn that’s contained in a book…or in just one paragraph for that matter.
that said, I still have a long way to go…and I do sense great limitations on things we can learn due to life span. Thats why I extremely respect those who already have experiences and knwoledge and wisdom that I also seek….
-coco-
Thank you~~
-SikWilly-
Sik, I also thought about the issiue in same way as you. I mean these are the intellectual elites of this time period we are talking about. Some people here on CD seems only to focus on the greedy and power hungry aspects these people displays and base their comments soely on those..which is understandable because we seldom get enough information on how they come to their conclusions, we only are told the result and decisions but are not informed of the process that lead to that result or decision thus we can only base our response on what we know and who we are…
Thats why we need to call for a process to increase government transparency…starting from all the information local governments use on small issiues and overtime get to the large ones. Public need to be well informed of how things are done in order for a democracy to operate
-paul-
Before you instill more consiracy theories into my mind I pray that you drink 10 bottles of vodka and sleep soundly for a thousand years…….
KEM PATRICK
”
Hi ~Lonecloud~ that was some valuable info, thank you. The major problem we all face however is not the rising sea levels, it’s the release of the methanee gas. That is a clear and present danger and a very serious issue.
”
Well, a massive clathrate release certainly is one possible ‘game over’ scenario. Apparently this has happened in the past, and it would wipe out most complex life on the planet.
There’s also the fact we are changing the pH of the oceans from all hydrocarbon burning. Much of the CO2 we release is absorbed by the ocean and through simple chemistry becomes carbonic acid. This could potentially destroy most complex life in the ocean by disrupting the base of the food chain
http://www.sacbee.com/378/story/570985.html
Really all this talk about saving any species and ‘reducing our footprint’ is laughable in light of current human population explosion. What, something like 200,000 people (after deaths) are added to the planet every day.
Anyway, it doesn’t look good. The way I see it the human species has a good change of not making it. The sad part of all this is we will likely take just about everything else with us when we go.
Good day.
KEM & BINNN
Hi,
I enjoyed reading the article on Methane Devourers. Thanks for the tip.
I saw in the related articles column this:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210103934.htm
It seems that they are harvesting methane in Europe for use. My hats off to them and too all those researchers looking for solutions.
Marianne
Just skimmed the end of the Rothschild timeline. So 9-11 was a neocon/AIPAC/Rothschild conspiracy to involve the US in Iraq? And its bigger than global warming? I don’t know. Did Governor Keane see this stuff?
Maybe its just Pinky and the Brain are two dumb farts who have oil on the brain. Colonel Blimps figthing the wrong war. Either way, nothing is happening on warming.
KEM PATRICK January 27th, 2008 1:43 pm
I’ll be delighted to teach you how to sail Susie
——————-What is this?! Ya old people paddle away with all your experience & knowledge & wisdom to paradise-sancturary leaving us young ones dealing with the mess ourselves?!……..Come back! We have…social security….!!
Hmmm… Some talk of the rapture, ufo’s… Check out another work in progress at One Planet, One Life. It is bare-bones right now, but we’re moving on it fast.
http://www.oneplanetonelife.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=194
Architects of Light
Hi again,
I didn’t read about the Rothschild’s….afraid I’d get too despondent…trying to keep a shred of optimism. Did go to the One Planet/OneLife site…interesting but disappointed some of the subject matter was not yet available…oh well…
All the talk about the Rapture, Armageddon, the world not being ended by water again but by fire….Well methane is highly flammable…maybe when it reaches high concentration in the atmosphere, fire will be banned and lightening prevented…just kidding….
Maybe the Aztecs were right…2011, the lead up to 2012 could be a very bad year.
Dang! I’m supposed to retire then….Work like a son of a b…. my whole life, then get annihilated. Swell!
Marianne
Hey Marianne:
Looked at some of your methane links. The one about running smokestack CO2 through algae coated membranes is really interesting. Its hard to believe it would work fast enough to keep up.
We started capturing methane from landfills in the US about 30 years ago. I even worked on a short-lived project myself. The idea wasn’t global warming, but interstate natural gas prices were regulated and the stuff was in short supply (except in Louisiana where it was produced and also more expensive). The idea was it could be locally cost competitive with piped in gas when the prices went up.
Until 2001, atmospheric methane had the same “hockey stick” shaped graph as CO2, but suddenly leveled out. This capture may be part of the reason the curve suddenly flattened out.
A microbe reactor that produces methane from fossil fuel CO2 would get a second use out of that carbon. Waste heat would keep the little buggers warm. (No off/on solar.) It might have to be the size of Rhode Island to convert all the CO2 from a big coal fired plant, though. Good ideas!
Yep, life is a bitch. We’re gonna miss you Marianne.
SIKWILLY
really enjoyed what there was of your website. look forward to seeing the rest. meanwhile here is something else on the 6th mass extinction scenario: www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html
SIKWILLY
and this:
www.science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/10mars_stormwarning.htm
or try this: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/10mar_stormwarning.htm
Thanks Coco for the links. David Ulansey’s website was definately an inspiration for the work being done at One Planet.
Our web presence is only somewhat complete, however, we have a long way to go. Please, if you’d like to recieve notices of ongoing work, sign up for our newsletter. I know that the work we are doing on “Architects of Light” may turn some people off, but this work is meant to be “exploratory”. An adventure through “what might be true”. It is an interesting and entertaining subject matter that’s being explored and when you delve into it, you begin seeing the picture from a bird’s eye view. Very fun to think about.
KEM PATRICK
well, i’ve counted 34 different readers so far. so that’s more than double what you anticipated. however, considering there are millions of people in the u.s. of a that’s a pretty poor contribution. and just goes to show what we are faced with trying to do something to save the planet………..
let’s hope the others are doing something on another front.
SIKWILLY
i’ll certainly sign up for any progress reports. thank you
Hi ~CoCo~ Yes, pretty poor for such an important issue, however many people read the articles and don’t talk as much as you and I do. So perhaps a lot of readers read th earticle and understnd. Of course by noon tomorrow, this baby will be buried in the archives. Out of sight, __ out of mind, ___ just like our president.
Maybe you and Siouxrose can get together someday and buy a sail boat.
~PMG~
Ive read the info from the link provided on the Rothchilds timeline from start to finish. Seems the world is victim of the biggest “Rort” in and through history. Im from New Zealand and i’m curious to know if indeed the central bank here is controlled by the same self serving interests?
Sry all I know this question has nothing at all to do with this article.
~Clubconnector~ Actually it does. It explains why no one in power is doing anything to correct the problem of global warming.
Right, Kem, and if you look at it, clubconnector, you will find it’s interconnected all over the globe. Do some reading on the Tri-Lateral Commission and you will see what I mean. The goal is one world government (New World Order anyone), controlled by a clique of elites, no national boundries, ‘us’ slaving for ‘them’. Just because you live in New Zealand that doesn’t mean your isolation in miles from the European Union & the proposed North American Union insolates you in any way. There’s also an Asian Union planned, and you might be included in that. Be informed, active, and aware, because this group doesn’t care about people (Google Kissenger & depopulation and you will see what I mean) at all except what they can get out of people and use them for. They are in denial about global warming, and dragging their feet because depopulating the world anywhere from 2-5 billion people or more is part of the plan. We’re past peak oil, their greatest cash cow is soon in its death throes, and they know it.
It’s an ‘I’ve got mine, screw you’ mindset, or more properly, ‘I’ve got mine, so die motherfu**er, unless you will be my slave’, mentality, with absolutely no sense of decency, morality, ethics, conscience, or heart.
Fear is a tactic & religion (of any form) a tool to be used to divide then conquer, all the while selling arms to both sides. A dagger to their heart is a free internet so expect every effort by them to shut it down or control it. That’s going on in China now, with US troops around the world through censorship, and they are trying to do it repeatedly in the US.
Oops, my bad. It must be a slow night for the ethernet. It just posted, but the one from two days ago still is gone.
to thaddeusstephens-try not to be a total fearmonger, not everyone is a fascist, and by you labeling, it only gives more power to those that would use the term to label anyone who is ignorant..ie most of americans, which is not the same as being fascist.
i have been reading the posts and am totally surprised i didn’t come across anybody even mentioning one of the best most SUSTANABLE solutions that humankind can reach for from the forgotten toolshed of history. This is called HEMP. industrial hemp is the most viable alternative to any of this ‘biofuel’ debate that is currently going on. HEMP is a plant that thrives under so many varying conditions as to allow its use and commercialization without undue hardship on ever depleted resources. HEMP could be grown from Maine to Florida from California to Texas to Canada to India. If you get the chance look for a little video that the US DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE made during WWII. its called HEMP FOR VICTORY and the Government denied its making of the video until one was furnished by the great Jack Herer. The HEMP plant has thousands of uses, and to those that would say that biodiesel could be made from corn, yes this is true, but HEMP has more energy per acre than corn or many other ’short root’ plant do. HEMPs roots penetrate deep into the surface of the soil making the plant very drought resistant. The melting of the caps will send massive amounts of saltwater to coastal plains, but in other parts of the world drought will be the name of the game. Essentially with the miracle plants growth parameters many harvests could be produced in one growing season, unlike corn or soy or others out there. the advantage you get in this case is that you can ‘plow under’ the first round into the ground and let sit early in the growing season. After two to three weeks in the soil the nutrients from this decaying matter is released into the topsoil making it increadably rich, THEREFORE NO NEED FOR HARMFUL AND DANGEROUS SYNTHETIC PESTICIDES OR HERBICIDES. promoting the NATURAL STATES OF DEFENCE OF ANY PLANT, hemp included, is the only viable way around using soil killing chemicals. (samples of topsoil taken from fields where caustic chemicals are used will prove that the soil itself is accually dead or dying ie no benefial and life giving microorganisms, the foundations of life) Hemp can reverse this process, INFACT hemp has been used around the areas affected by the CHERNOBLE nuclear disaster for the very purpose of naturally absorbing the radioactivness present in the soil (and this is just ONE EXAMPLE). I was doing some research the other night and discovered that the closest country to the US that has legal access to growing hemp (licensed and regulated obviously) is Canada. This plant should be the god given right of any human on earth to grow and utilize, whether for fiber, fuel, food, or medicine. Unfortunatly, toomany entrenched industries shake with fear whenever any meaningful change in the production and commercial utilization of the plant; because they would be out of business very quick like. Unfortunatly it might take an ‘end of days’ scenario for the power elites to relinquish their control over the plant and allow for its productive cultivation. the US economy would bounce right back from its 20 trillion dollar debt within two to three YEARS if it were legalized tomorrow. And i should probably mention this because the issue often is confused by the less informed, but marijuana as a drug is relativly mild compared to just about any modern day pharmacutical. It is important to note that HEMP and marijuana differ because HEMP mostly of the ruderalis family of cannabis ie very low thc content in relation to its mass. You could smoke a joint the size of a light pole made from hemp and still only end up with a mild headache. HEMP generally has a .1-2% thc content whereas its cannabis sativa cousin can produce the ‘flowers’ or ‘buds’ with upwards of 30% thc. so if anyone tells you that hemp is the same thing as the drug pot-just lying to you or has another agenda or most probably (and unfortunatly here) is totally ignorant of this critical and overlooked issue.
sorry if the script is rough around the edges, this could be called a ‘rough draft’ proposal.
It’s Okay, it’s buried in the archives now anyway and no one will read it.
bbr-001
thanks…At Richard Branson’s site, of his many endeavors, there is a link to Virgin Earth….looking for ways to improve the messes on our planet. I sent the development group some of my ideas today. I certainly can’t be the only one who has submitted these ideas…just want to make sure they get to the discussion table, and maybe Mr. Branson will help fund the R & D and manifest workable solutions.
Other wonderful sites: the X Prize and TEDtalks from Monterrey …a plethora of really interesting presentations from highly sentient and intelligent members of our species.
Rock on!
…oh,…and KEM…ha, ha, ha….not dead YET!!!!
Marianne
Don’t expect you ever will die ~Marianne~ People such as you have spirits which will live on thru eterniity.
~Kem~ ~PMG~
Thank you for the info, I will certainly follow up.
I am especially concerned as this year is “Election Year” in NZ and the dark clouds are billowing over our current progressive government. Look’s like we will end up with an other Right wing government when it is all said and done. The leader of this Party was a currency trader for “Merril Lynch” , and has nasty plans to privatize most parts of our state sector including education and health (We’re luck this hasnt happend already I suppose). I suspect that he was schooled with Friedmanite\Chicago school ideology, which bode’s bad for all in my country. The only hope we have is our system, MMP. (Good check’s and balance’s)
Wish us luck!
Clubconnecter
KEM, you said
Well, when the ocean’s methane “burps”, it is a very explosoive gas and any lighting bolt could easily set it off. __ Ka-BOOOOMMMMMM.__ Such an explosion, would make 50 mega-ton hydrogen bombs going off, more like fire crackers in comparison.
That is not physically possible, say that happens and methane comes out of the water during a thunder storm, it will NOT explode!
You need compression to have explosion, and the methane would just ignite burn and cease to exist, but if a IIIIIIII 50 MEGA TON IIIIIIII bomb, (the largest ever even tested by the US was 10.5 megatons and the Hiroshima nuke was .015 mega tons) was dropped, that would incinerate the water. It would leave a “water crater” that upon flowing into the vast dent, would create MASSIVE tidal waves that has December 26 Tsunami written all over it. Oh and drop something in the water, see the water that shoots up after it goes in, IMAGINE a nuke that makes a 2 mile depression, that water is going to be flowing at tremendous speeds, and when it hits together, that plume of water is going, i dont know a few hundred feet high In addition, do you have any idea how much methane you would need to create that big of an inferno? Say 1000 cubic tons of pure methane. BS thats coming out at the same time.
Yeah your idea is total bull shit. Sorry.s
Google: self fulling prophecy end of the world scenarios methane clathrates lecherous old farts