US Deserters Lose Bid for Canada Refugee Status
OTTAWA/TORONTO - Two Americans who deserted the U.S. Army to protest against the war in Iraq lost their bid for refugee status in Canada on Thursday, and the Canadian government made it clear they were no longer welcome.
The Supreme Court of Canada declined to hear appeals from the two men, Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, over decisions by immigration authorities — backed in two subsequent court rulings — that they were not refugees in need of protection.
Opposing the war on the belief that it was illegal and immoral, the two deserted when they learned their units would be deployed to Iraq, and came to Canada.
If deported to the United States, they say they face a court martial and up to five years in prison.
During the Vietnam War, Canada was a haven for tens of thousands of draft dodgers and deserters. But Hinzman and Hughey were volunteers rather than conscripts.
Their backers urged the government to let them stay in Canada anyhow, but this met with little sympathy from Ottawa.
“Canadians want a refugee system that helps true refugees,” said Mike Fraser, spokesman for Citizenship and Immigration Minister Diane Finley.
“All refugee claimants in Canada have the right to due process and when they have exhausted those legal avenues we expect them to respect our laws and leave the country.”
He declined to comment on whether active steps would be taken to deport the two men to the United States. In any case, it could still take months before they can be sent away, said Lee Zaslofsky of the War Resisters Support Campaign.
“They won’t be deported tomorrow; there is a process,” said Zaslofsky, himself a Vietnam War deserter. He said the immigration department would ask if the two men want to do a “pre-removal risk assessment,” which can take months.
An immigration spokeswoman, Karen Chadd-Evelyn, said such an assessment would judge whether in the United States they would be at risk of torture, death or cruel and unusual punishment or treatment.
They can also apply for permanent residence in Canada on humanitarian or compassionate grounds.
The War Resisters Support Campaign, aware of some 55 deserters who have come to Canada since 2004, said they would press for a political way to let the deserters stay.
“It’s up to (politicians) if they want to give resisters access to Canada, as they did during the Vietnam War,” Michelle Robidoux said in the group’s small Toronto office.
The small opposition New Democratic Party said it would introduce a motion calling on the House of Commons immigrations committee to hold immediate hearings on the issue.
Meanwhile, one stratagem appeared to be for resisters to use the legal system to enable them to stay longer in Canada.
One deserter who still hopes to stay is Kimberly Rivera, from Mesquite, Texas. She came to Canada in February with her husband and two small children while on a two-week army leave, after spending three months on security duty in Iraq.
Despite the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear the Hinzman and Hughey appeals, Rivera said she plans to continue filing court appeals in her own case. “I’m sure it’s going to be denied but at least it gives us more time here,” she said.
(Editing by Janet Guttsman)
© Reuters 2007
Sorry to hear that Canada won’t accept soldiers who refuse to take up arms for America. With Congress unwilling to stop the war, and protests not changing much, it puts more pressure on resistance movements to get kids not to enlist and to provide support for soldiers who learned a little too late that the war is bogus.
Hoa binh
These people are being treated like criminals for having a conscience and opposing an illegal war. The world knows who the real criminals are. Instead of trying to persecute patriotic people of conscience and integrity, how about the Fox News spin-doctors, pro-war politicians and members of the PNAC have their children fight in this war which they claim is so vitally important?
We need more deserters, more mutinies, more disobedience, more troops to stand up to our corrupt leadership. We must do everything we can to help deserters. The military should be democratized, our troops shouldn’t be treated like slave-soldier janissaries from the Middle Ages - this democratization won’t have any impact on a war for our survival, but could very well undermine the war machine during illegal, unnecessary, imperialist wars.
“120 US war veteran suicides a week”
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22762457-5005961,00.html
We can only assume that the suicide rate is 4 times the non-veteran average for those soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan since they would be the ones who are between 20 to 24 years old. This is just one more reason to support war resister.
http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1258
The current Canadian administration, under Harper, is in total collusion with Bush. The Canadians I know despise him, and want canada to be a safe refuge for asylum seekers.
re since1492 12:47 pm
at the risk of preaching to the converted, IMO your reference to “soldiers who refuse to take up arms for america” is in need of reframing. these young people saw clearly that they were being asked to take up arms for exxon/mobil, halliburton and general dynamics. would that more had their insight and courage.
hoa binh back atcha, bro.
People in America-thank God; and maybe not-are pretty much law-abiding when it comes to protest.
While there are some, that are bravely getting arrested for the sake of democracy and freedom; the majority send polite emails and make even more polite phone calls.
In many countries, people throw crushed tomatoes, garbage, and rotten eggs, at the politicians and office-holders they feel are “misguided.” American politicians and ofice-holders have been lucky; so far.
I’m remembering the brave young souls, who threw the pies at Ann Coulter. “Al Pieda,” they were called!
In the end-preserving democracy may turn out to be just like making an omlet. We may have to break a few eggs!
baruch November 16th, 2007 1:07 pm Said “The current Canadian administration, under Harper, is in total collusion with Bush. The Canadians I know despise him, and want canada to be a safe refuge for asylum seekers.”
This is true of the Canadians I know but it was thought that this Government would not last long but it has so one has to think that like the US has moved politically to the Right so have the Canadians.
Yahoo news has posted a related article: Army desertion rate highest since 1980
If you are interested you might give it a read.
Knew this would come up sooner or later. (as previous posts demonstrate)
What is actually on the books for legal asylum?
If a country that kidnaps innocent people tortures them and drops them in a foreign country, and then won’t let them have their case heard on the grounds of “state secrets” is not deemed an opressive regime in violation of human rights, then I’d like to know who could claim asylum?
We have a govt that refuses congressional subpoenas, and illegally spies on it’s citizens in a time of peace.
They’re lucky they got into Canada in the first place, as even misdemeanor activists are sent back at the borders these days.
Canada loving Micheal Moore needs to make a Canadian based editorial documentary now it seems.
There is a way for those that would rather flee than fight in an illegal occupation to go now.
The recent case of Lt. Watada, who won his case of refusing his orders to go to Iraq. This was a landmark case. Watada should go down as an original American hero and should be a case study for all the so-called refugees.
It is within a soldiers right to refuse an unlawful order. Watada presented his case that the occupation of Iraq is illegal and got a hung jury. The ruling that he can’t be tried again, double jeopardy, clears him. If just half the soldiers that are AWOL right now took Watada’s stance that means a good many of the serving troops would too and you’d see the end of the Iraq disaster tomorrow. And of course no Iran.
Oh, Canada,
How the mighty is falling.
Not enough room for the refuge seekers?
Tased to death the Polish immigrant,
seeking refuge with his aging mother.
Refused asylum to US soldiers,
seeking refuge from Bush’s dirty war.
baruch, when did the Canadians you know start despising Harper? I doubt that it was very recent.
Barn Burner, the only reason Harper is still in power is because Stephan Dion and the Liberals are chicken.
Umlaut, I think it might be a good idea about Michael Moore, though his view seems to be that as bad as it is in Canada, it is much worse in the US. Anyone know what the Canadian price is for desertion? Whatever it is, one can get around it by ingesting illegal substances and having a urine test before going over. I have a feeling that some who would never otherwise use illegal drugs did so to avoid serving in Afghanistan.
Randall Palmer and Lynne Olver says: Opposing the war on the belief that it was illegal and immoral
That is the whole reason behind the refusal to accept the deserters as refugees – Harper doesn’t want to acknowledge publicly that his good friends south of the 49th parallel have started an illegal war. We should remember what is facing these guys if they return before a change of regime the next time we chastise someone for “obeying orders.” These guys face jail if they return and, depending on the leanings of the guards, they could be placed in very violent or death inducing situations. Guards who are pro war know which prisoners are also pro war and can arrange an encounter and to look the other way.
RE Suicide: That suicide rate is quite high – we have one confirmed suicde among our soldiers in Afghanistan but I don’t know how many of those who have come home have committed suicide or will – and Afghanistan is a gentler war than Iraq. There is shit going down in Afghanistan, but not as bad as what is going on in Iraq.
Randall Palmer and Lynne Olver say: “Canadians want a refugee system that helps true refugees,” said Mike Fraser, spokesman for Citizenship and Immigration Minister Diane Finley.
What do you guys know about Diane Finley. Well she was first elected to office in 2004 and is already a Minister under Harper. Harper doesn’t like having very many female Ministers in his Cabinet, so there is something he really likes about this one. She doesn’t speak to much (nothing in Oct or Nov so far), though, but is quite noticeable fawning over those who are with her dark glasses.
Wikipedia: Finley has promoted increased private-sector involvement in health services. She was the founder of Canada’s largest private-sector ambulance service, Canadian Medical Response, and has chaired the Canadian Council for Public-Private Partnerships.
The rest of you, I agree and have nothing to add to. Don’t feel insulted that I have nothing to add.
Here is some information about who can apply for refugee status in Canada.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/refugees/inside/apply-who.asp
I personally applaud any US service personnel who refuse to fight in an illegal war, but I really don’t think you can expect to win refugee status in Canada if you’ve volunteered for the military.
If one of our soldiers went AWOL, we’d throw them in the brig, same as would happen in the US. So, clearly we aren’t going to say that constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.
I’d like to see our government take a firmer stand against US foreign policy. But ask yourself this: if you were a resident of a non-nuclear, oil-rich state with a modest military, just how aggressively would you deal with the US?
It’s not like we haven’t been invaded by your armies before, and I doubt we can count on the British to help us the next time.
You need to enforce or change your laws at home, you can’t expect Canada to do it for you.
There’s an international mafia afoot — maybe France is now getting onboard. It’ll eventually reach a nodal point as it did in the latter 18th century. One country will snap and have a new revolution. The rest will eventually follow suit. America is a century overdue, but my money is on the French again.
The refusal of Canada to grant asylum to these guys sends a message. Otherwise law-abiding and well-meaning people will wonder whether they ought to go underground instead. That’s not in ANYONE’s best interest.
I am a former Marine chopper pilot, that believed the Viet nam war was an obligated duty for this great country.I now get sick when I see Bush or Chaney slobbering from their maddog mouth, they both are deserters. Just think of all the other MEN who feel the same as I. What did I almost lose my life over. Not to one day to see this once great nation become taken over by a dictator, a thing we were told we were fighting against. Ther is no respect for these dogs in Washington.
Shame on Canada. Why is it following down the neocon road?
This is horrible news. The G.W. Bush years have been among the darkest for the USA and for the world.
Canada has taken a turn to the right, probably due to the fact that many 9/11 operatives came through Canada, 9/11 itself, then Madrid and London incidents. The other element is, with the US out of control, maybe you need a strong posture.
Look if you’re going to desert from the US Armed Forces, don’t go to a place that is part of the North American Union. This isn’t 1967.
As much as I despise harper and his government… In this case he’s right, they volunteered for service in the forces, they could have claimed that they were gay and been turfed from service, they could have refused orders rather than go awol, they could have deployed and refused to open fire on anyone. What they did was run away, I doubt that they’ll be tortured by the waterboarders, although they could try the arguement that imprisonment in a military jail is tantamount to torture…
Had they been drafted, my position would not change much, the could always claim they’re gay. And if they want to come out as straight later on, just claim that they found Jesus.
I have an idea! Why don’t we have “safe houses” in the US? There must be a group out there somewhere that helps the US soldiers to not have to go back to this illegal invasion and occupation. And failing that, how about a fund to help soldiers immigrate to some other country besides Canada?
Ideas anyone?
“probably due to the fact that many 9/11 operatives came through Canada”
Nobody reading this web site actually believes that tired old claim, do they?
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=aa4a4449-9f41-4e1c-8021-12f8c1c726a9&k=56437
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38816-2005Apr8.html
The invasion and occupation of Iraq is illegal under US Law. Are we a signatory to the Geneva Convention barring wars of aggression? Yes.
Would participating in the Iraq occupation be the act of a war crime? Yes.
Have you all forgotten the plan to make Canada, the US and Mexico one big happy family? Can’t remember the actual name but the concept is being carried out anyway—Greg Palaast, bless his heart, documents a stolen 2006 election in Mexico thanks to US intervention. Gee sounds abit like 2000 and 2004, eh? For all we know, they are tampering with Canada’s elections as well….
This isn’t about national identity folks—it’s about a sprawling fascist takeover, call it what you will. Borders mean nothing except when the powerful elite wants to stir up hatred, intolerance and fear in the various population centers. Keep the people fighting each other for the crumbs while they walk away with the entire bakery. WAKE UP!
“The invasion and occupation of Iraq is illegal under US Law. Are we a signatory to the Geneva Convention barring wars of aggression? Yes.”
The Ganeva Convention does not bar wars of aggression, but we are a signatory. The Geneva Convention is made up of four ratified protocols covering the treatment of wounded and prisoners (I), saliors and shipwrecked sailors (II), prisoners of war (III), and civilians in wartime (IV - not ratified till 1949 so it did NOT apply in WWII). There is an additional protocol regarding the use of gas and biological weapons.
The prohibition against agressive wars is in the UN Charter Chapter 1 Article 2, principles 3 and 4.
Canada has come to “heel” now watch Sarkozy of France.
“The current Canadian administration, under Harper, is in total collusion with Bush.”
Absolutely! The neo-cons worked hard and spent lot’s of money to influence elections in Canada AND Mexico.
mirf59 - none of them came through Canada! What does Canada have to do to put that rumour to rest! Was just interrupted by my mother, told her that this false rumour is still making the rounds and she shook her head in disgust.
danielnolan, hopefully mirf59 is the last one who believes this falsehood as fact. Thanks for the articles, feeling lazy. But the idea that this bit of fabrication could be so widely believed goes to the soldier’s refugee claims - whether they knew what they were getting into or whether their decision was based on false information.
skippyagogo41, they could have claimed that they were gay and been turfed from service, they could have refused orders rather than go awol, they could have deployed and refused to open fire on anyone.
That wouldn’t work in Canada. There are married gays serving in our military. American troops serving in Afghanistan can probably visit the Canadian camp and get married.
For Canadian soldiers, if you fail the drug test taken just before you are about to be sent over, you don’t get sent over. I don’t know if you are reprimanded or not, but I think that your military career is over.
There used to be a show called Disclosure with Mark Kelley but the CBC seems to have taken it off their webpage. The was a segment called “AWOL in America” about American soldiers going underground in the US, another about American soldiers who did not wish to serve in Iraq coming to Canada and another about recruitment. Anyone who has a copy of it, seems to be youtube time. The videos were still there a few months ago.
starofthesea says: Have you all forgotten the plan to make Canada, the US and Mexico one big happy family?
No we haven’t. It came up during the SPP meeting with the Three Amigos and 30 CEOs in Montebello this summer. Peter Julian (who is the one keeping tabs on it) has launched an SPP working group to try to stop some of this agenda from going through.
xxxxxxxxxxx
This just in:
NDP tabling motion to let war resisters stay in Canada
Thu 15 Nov 2007
OTTAWA – American war resisters have lost their final appeal today as the Supreme Court refused to hear their case. Having exhausted every avenue of appeal, at least two Americans are expected to be deported unless Minister of Immigration Diane Finley takes immediate action.
“To deport courageous war resisters who oppose the illegal invasion of Iraq is saying Yes to George W. Bush’s war and No to supporting and protecting people seeking peace,” said NDP Citizenship and Immigration Critic Olivia Chow (Trinity-Spadina). “The minister must intervene and allow the war resisters to stay in Canada.”
Chow announced that she will be submitting a motion calling on the Citizenship and Immigration committee to hold hearings on this issue immediately. She will also call on the minister to intervene today.
Chow noted that a recent poll shows that almost two thirds of Ontarians, or 64.4 per cent, believe that Canada should allow war resisters to stay in Canada.
http://www.ndp.ca/node/5896
It is never over until it is over. The NDP and the Bloc will vote for it. If the Liberals support it, it will be put through whether Harper wants to or not.
danielnolan your article points out the reason I would never vote for Hillary - she sees imaginary people crossing borders.
I think that many people mix up the Michael Hamdani hoax with the 9-11 hoax too. Michael Hamdani was a small time forger who figured that if he made up some information and pretended to co-operate with the FBI that he could avoid serious jail time.
RE: Olivia Chow motion - next week will keep looking for “Chow” in Hansard. Know the NDP and Bloc will support the motion and if the Liberals do too, it will pass.
Clearly, the war IS ILLEGAL. Unfortunately Canada under Harper has gone too far to the right. Canadians are not happy with this government, and I bet it won’t last much longer. After all most Canadians are social democrats, and they’ve had ample chance to experience what life is life in a social democracy with expanded citizen rights like universal health care. They don’t want to follow the American model any more than most europeans want to. Its shameful that Canada refused refuge to the war resistors. I hope they can find refuge in another country.
starofthesea November 16th, 2007 4:50 pm — “This isn’t about national identity folks—it’s about a sprawling fascist takeover, call it what you will. Borders mean nothing except when the powerful elite wants to stir up hatred, intolerance and fear in the various population centers. Keep the people fighting each other for the crumbs while they walk away with the entire bakery. WAKE UP!”
You got it - on the nose. Of course there is complicity on the part of the current breed of politicians, but neither nationality nor party affiliation have much to do with that.
There’s an old saying about Canada’s Liberal Party that they “campaign on the left and govern on the right”. As with the US two-headed Democratic/Republican establishment, Canadian Liberal/Conservative “opposition” is more apparent than real and its combined drift to the right lags the US only slightly in deference to Canadian societal values, especially in Quebec and the east.
As for the “imperial” aspect, US dominance of Canada has been mainly of the economic variety (the War of 1812 notwtihstanding). But, combined with the cross-border exportation of US “culture”, it has been no less influential for that. In fact, it sometimes seems that Canadians have looked to the US to compensate for the loss of their British Empire affiliation, much as the US sometimes seems to long for a regal presidency to replace its lost king. If so, both countries are certainly realizing their wishes — in spades.
danielnolan, et al. I know next to nothing about immigration into Canada, but I really don’t understand this “Safe Nation” business. Is the untied States a “safe” nation anymore?
vaudree; you’re quite right, coming out wouldn’t work for cdn soldiers, but we’re really talking about yank’s who’ve deserted from their army. Yanks that really did have better options to express their displeasure. I still have greater respect to men, who like M. Ali, went to jail rather than fled to Canada or served in the drafted army that went to Viet Nam.
As for drug use in the cf, damn right it’s the end of your career if you use ‘em. I smoke pot now, but when I was in the cf I didn’t. Didn’t want to end up in jail. The cf also includes alcohol abuse as bad drug use, if the medical officer concludes you’re a drunk, they force the soldier/sailor to take antiabuse, a rather nasty little drug that makes you ill if you consume anything with alcohol in it.
Pretty rotten decision I say.
Fuck Harper. Vote NDP.
I have seen the military recruitment techniques used on people, there is plenty of video floating around that demonstrates it fully. I can fully understand that the recruiters have quotas and do not give a shit for those they prey upon. I understand fully why someone might want to change their mind about continuing their enlistment. I also know that in Canada it is not supposed to matter how you got here, but once here you are entitled to a full hearing. I know that the chances of fair trial in the USA for these kids is about the same as that of a snowball in Florida. I know that if these folks need to go underground there are plenty of options, so don’t let their piss poor welcome dissuade anyone else from exercising their conscience.
War is definitely a Racket!
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
There are a few peculiarities with military culture since the age of serfdom — continuing up to today, with many other things — which are the root problem here. The first is that one must disregard his own ethical/moral decision-making capabilities and judgment. This is arguably pathological. We didn’t evolve our brains for this. There were many successful campaigns in ages past in which soldiers didn’t have blind allegiance to an abstraction. But rather tight loyalty to a particular leader and/or cause. One that they identified with, and was true to their own interests as well as the leader’s.
So let’s imagine we had massive turnaround in American culture, a genuine cleaning of the house, a new start. It becomes honorable again to serve in the military because we have an honorable Commander in Chief, we no longer support dictator against dictator, druglord against the people, lie about reasons to start preemptive wars, etc.
So you join. You have a commitment that might carry you into another president’s term. And let’s say the mafia returns to D.C. You’ll no longer be charged with defending the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic, as well as natural disasters. Rather - you’ll be sent to fight the Uranium Wars or Cocaine Wars, or whatever other resource the plutocracy wants to take over with the autocracy at its command.
If the military didn’t have enlistment contracts, and one could join to fight a cause he thought was worthwhile, or skip out any time he thought the Commander in Chief was prostituting the military for corporate aims as has been the usual lately, they might be compelled to pick and chose their battles more nobly.
Arvy; You are accurate in your post. As the ‘corprotacracy’ increases it’s wealth and power around the globe, more and more countries are ‘co-operating’ with each other at the expense of the working class.
People wonder, after almost 8 years of the most corrupt and morally bankrupt administration in US history, why our ’suicidal’ young men and women are willing to be killed or maimed for the Bush/Cheney cartel. It goes back to the old saying of “three hots and a cot”. ( a steady job and source of income with benefits ) Only the money and bonuses are much higher now to retain or lure new ‘meat’ in, in order to feed the cannons of death and destruction. What a waste of humanity, resources and energy to keep the misery and suffering machine well lubricated.
Between the Christian fascists who despise the teaching and way of life of the ‘christed master’, and the ‘master manipulaters’, the Zionist lobby, the ignorant and uninformed are gullible.
White Rose; “War is definitely a Racket, and it is Gangsterism on a National Level”
Almost eight years in the ‘new millenium’ and you’d think we learned something about ‘Legalized Murder’, also known as “War’.
Being Canadian myself, I am ashamed that our government would refuse refugee status to people who are against an illegal war that is completely pointless. You can bet I will never vote for the Harper government, not that I was ever dumb enough to vote for them in the first place.
So why did they join in the first place? Isn’t that what the military is about? War?
Canadians are strict about enforcing codes, e.g. illegal aliens. My mother is full-blooded Canadian Indian (tribal); however, she was born here in the U.S. Still, I thought I could work there.
I applied for a job at a hospital in Canada and was hired. However, the Canadian government didn’t OK it because they actually CARE about their people and offer the job to Canadians first rather than hire someone from the U.S.
I was sorely disappointed, let me tell you,
but you have to respect the Canadians for looking out for their people first.
The military can be about legitimate national defense, aiding in natural disaster, going to college, learning skills that you’re too poor to obtain otherwise.
And then it can be something else.
WASHINGTON - Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
read the whole thing on yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071117/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_deserters
Last night in the Democrat’s debate, a soldier who had been on 3 tours in Iraq and his mother stood to ask a question of the candidates, the mother asked: “what are you going to do to make sure my son doesn’t get called to fight in Iran?”
The whole stinking mess is beginning to implode, no matter how much the complicit MSM and traitorous Democrats, try to keep the lid on the opposition and support this debacle. When the economy goes, shortly, it will come to a rapid close. Get the choppers in the green zone warmed up and ready.
And to the U.S. soldiers who get turned back by Canada, if it makes you feel any better, I once banned Canadians from my business. Touche.
http://www.amcostarica.com/071304.htm
Ramsay
Tonight I heard these two soldiers –Jeff Paterson, 1st Iraq War Marine resister with Courage to Resist and Not in our Name and
Gerry Condon, Viet Nam War resister and current director, Project Safe Haven–discuss their resistance and show a video about the guys (and their families) in Canada with the recent court ruling. It wasn’t tens of thousands, more than 60,000 war resisters went to Canada during the Viet Nam War. These people now living far from their homes, with heavy social pressure to believe they “deserted” are doing something far more courageous than those either in U.S. units or mercenary units…they are doing what is right. The war in Viet Nam didn’t stop until the soldiers began to stop; we hear now about the Missions to Avoid and hope this is the beginning of the end to the Occupation of Iraq.
To diminish how courageous it is for someone in the military to act against the flow, with principles and ethics is sad. As a military wife who made a choice to leave my husband when he wouldnl’t get out of the military in 1968, I know the pain of how military “training” changes people.
It’s a strong signal that things are finally changing when resistance becomes nationally famous. Canada used to be the Conscience of the Continent. Let’s hope she earns the title back.
RE: Harper doesn’t want to acknowledge publicly that his good friends south of the 49th parallel have started an illegal war.
The Canadian government has already acknowledged that the Iraq war and occupation is illegal; that’s why they don’t sent troops there. Canadian troops are only in Afghanistan.
So the pressure from Bush is what’s driving these court rulings. I’d heard the U.S. has taken over border security from Canada and now Homeland Security manages all Canadian borders also. Can anyone confirm that?
My name is Ryan Johnson and i am one of the war resisters applying for refugee status in Canada. The decision brought down by the supreme court was disappointing but we are hopeful that with the support of Canadians and help from parliament we will be allowed to stay. As someone who left the United States and now has the opportunity to look at the U.S. from the perspective of an outsider I am horrified at what is being perpetrated by my birth country in the name of freedom and democracy. Im prouder to say that i am a deserter than to say i was a soldier in the United states Army. i want to thank everyone for your supportive words and would like everyone to go to resisters.ca to get more info on the resisters and how you can help in our struggle.
peace and solidarity,
Ryan Johnson
i began to go through the comments a bit more and saw several comments talking about us being volunteers. i was a volunteer and theoretically i could of claimed to be gay to get kicked out but i wont use the discrimination of other people to my gain, and i could have refused an order and gone to jail but i joined to to be part of democracy something to be proud of and let me just say that participation in an illegal war is not something to be proud of. I was lied to by my government so my contract was void before it started. i didn’t run away from the army i am standing in the face of the military and telling the world they are criminals for what they are doing, and the president they are following is doing this for his gain and the gain of the corporate war profiteers. i will not sacrifice my life for lies or a piece of paper that is no more than that, just that a piece of paper. i shouldn’t have to lie to not have to kill. and i should not have to go to prison for it either, and i would bet that every one of you out there would not want to go to prison for the crime of not destroying the life of another human. i am again proud to say i am a deserter and disappointed in my country for justifying the death of over a million people by saying well he volunteered, and everyone that says that is not only ignorant but it shows me how much you value human life and i would wonder if you were an innocent civilian killed by a soldier would your family say well that was his job to kill people im sorry jims dead but thats what happens when your a civilian when you live in a place where soldiers are occupying. i am saying this just to put things in perspective for people that may not of put them selves in the shoes of the Iraqi people whos only crime is being alive.
peace and solidarity,
Ryan Johnson
“If the military didn’t have enlistment contracts, and one could join to fight a cause he thought was worthwhile, or skip out any time he thought the Commander in Chief…they might be compelled to pick and chose their battles more nobly.”
There is a lot of bragging/hiding-behind the much-touted ‘all volunteer Army’. A truly “volunteer Army” would allow citizens to volunteer-out as easily (and without stigma/punishment) as they volunteered-in.
That said, it is relatively-easy (with price of a ‘not so favorable’ Discharge, perhaps) to ‘opt-out’. Not by feigning-’gayness’, but by weight-gain, chronic-Tardiness, disobeying-Orders, ‘non-excellence’ in your MOS, etc., etc. — or seeking CO-status. [Just being a ’supposedly-innocent’ screw-up, and damaging enough operations/equipment, will also-serve — and has ‘fifth-column value’ for serving ‘two-ends’]
As in the ‘corporate-world’ today, American-youth seem to want it all ‘both ways’, and at their-convenience.
Ryan, I am sure that some-Recruiter/Politicians lied to you (that IS their function, after-all). But, and as an adult, you personally signed a Contract, accepted their so-called ‘training’/pay-cheque/uniform, and surely-knew that to break your end of that Contract would/could ‘cost you’. I can admire the conscience you’ve grown-since, and any action taken towards keeping yourself a non-contributor towards what unarguably is/are War-Crimes — but you cannot expect those actions to be ‘painless’. You weren’t contractually lied-to by WalMart regards a big-screen-tv now stuck on FoxHole-News. You joined/trained in the US Armed Forces, and have no-hope of soon shaming-them into any immediate admission of Fraud or Duplicity, or waging an Illegal-War.
Canada cannot become a ’substitute-America’ for you, in which your Principles carry no-Price, whatsoever. They, too, are under extreme-threats from the same nonsense now threatening-you. Nor can you sit-this-one-out and hope it just ‘goes away’ (it is far more-likely to get-worse than get-better — in near-term).
Had I the opportunity to counsel you ere-this, I’d have suggested how you could have easily ‘worked the System’ for your-Ends — but you are now beyond all-that, and ‘in-the-crosshairs’. It is too-late for any advice about “avoid and protest and effect-change, but don’t stand ‘under the hammer’ while doing-so”.
Because you value your principles/interests so-highly, you can best serve them by facing the costs involved for having-them [Yes, many things in life do involve a ‘cost’]. Return-home, and then let your rationales (and the consequences of them) become ‘known to others’. A prison-experience, followed by a black-mark on your Record, is NOT the end of your useful-life. You will be shocked by how few-employers and fellow-citizens care-a-whit about ANY Federal-charges in your past…if you believe in yourself and harbor no shame of them.
That same-country raised and sheltered you, and provided much by way of security/tutelage/opportunities based solely on your ‘accident of birth’ there (and at great-cost to many innocent-others elsewhere in the world, btw) — which you presumably accepted ‘as your due’ — and now it legitimately demands some ‘Service’ (or pound-of-flesh) from you after you entered into that military-service contract. You can/should now best-Serve by becoming an example, at home, of what can happen to erstwhile-others who mistakenly ‘believe’ their Recruiters and Politicos. I suggest you face/embrace those consequences (of what essentially are your own-actions), and then ‘Move-On’. [MANY countries will allow you to immigrate, if later you decide to shun your birthrights/obligations altogether — some perhaps-preferentially — but Canada is now ‘hard-pressed’.]
Good-luck, however, in whatever you decide…
The best thing I can say for young men! DON’T VOLUNTEER!!!!!!! DON’T LISTEN TO THEIR SALES PITCH!!!! But, I can see why some of them did. Sometimes people change there minds about something. Even though I have never on any occasion changed my mind on the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. I thought Afghanistan was a mistake too! Russia tried it in the 80’s and it bankrupt them in the end. These people have fought for centuries. You can’t effectively rule people who have their tribal chieftain’s and illegal drug trade. When the Iraq War came along I tried telling people I worked with Bush was lying about it. But, at the time no one would listen. There was still too much anger from 9/11 for people to think clearly. They were out for blood and wanted to tromp someone. Even if it was the wrong country. And the Bush Administration took full advantage of that anger and worked the country like the con artist he is. So, I can’t really blame the guys who wound up in the Army. For a lot of young men they paint a glowing picture. A lot of them get talked into it as a possible career. When you are unemployed and can’t find a decent job even the Army looks good. Those recruiters are like used car salesmen…fast talkers. I don’t think there isn’t a young person who hasn’t been talked into something by a fast talker. I was when I was young it was 3 years worth of magazines from a door to door salesman that I didn’t want. I have often wondered how many people I worked with in 2003 feel the same way about the Iraq War today. It would be interesting to find out.
skippyagogo41, there is a way around antiabuse - according to the literature a drunken Quebec woman found a way. It involves taking extremely small amounts of something which has next to no alcohol in it. I personally think I was born with antiabuse for airfreshioner and certan disinfectants and that it has gotten worse over time - and you can’t fully avoid that stuff in our society.
RE Shooting Civilians: Can’t remember who said this, but someone said something about the reactions of civilians when loved ones are shot. You remember a few years back when 4 people were taken hostage and one of them, Tom Fox, was killed? Well another one of them, James Loney, talked about one of the hostage takers they nicknamed Junior who was going to become a suicide bomber because of all his relatives who were killed, but Loney talked him out of it - last post:
http://thomhartmann.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=4831010351&f=4851097651&m=6891019582&r=7651046092#7651046092
Paul Bramscher says: If the military didn’t have enlistment contracts, and one could join to fight a cause he thought was worthwhile, or skip out any time he thought the Commander in Chief was prostituting the military for corporate aims
I remember one woman refusing to go over to Afghanistan because she joined as a peace-keeper and that this was not a peace-keeping mission - I don’t know what happened to her. Afghanistan is a Jeckle and Hyde mission - and more Hyde than the government is letting on. You can die on a peace-keeping mission like in a combat mission, but the former is usually considered more just and noble.
Remember when Bush was running for office and he said he would cut down on peace-keeping mission and the reported was saying that Bush was going to cut down on Military involvement but the look on the reporter’s face looked more like it was wishful thinking because Bush did not actually say that.
To cheer you all up, Romeo Dallaire talking about homosexuality in the US army. With the shortage of recruits, the new policy is to plug one’s ears and say “nuh nuh can’t hear you.”
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1710
Arvy says: There’s an old saying about Canada’s Liberal Party that they “campaign on the left and govern on the right”.
I am wondering if it is an old saying among New Democrats. The Liberals pull this on us time and time again and the Canadian people fall for it time and time again.
And it is about national identity - the national identity people like Tommy Douglas, David Lewis and Ed Broadbent gave us. BTW - How is Naomi Klein related to David Lewis?
seaseal says: I’d heard the U.S. has taken over border security from Canada and now Homeland Security manages all Canadian borders also. Can anyone confirm that?
I think the whole thing surrounding Wright and Benjamin trying to cross the border and then using the Freedom of Information Act to get a look at their personal files is about seeing how integrated the border actually is. I think that the NDP are trying to find that out. The difference between the SPP and NAFTA is that the SPP participants are trying to work out ways to word laws as regulations rather than legistation because the former doesn’t have to be ratified through parliament. Testing a law is about the only way to find out its parameters.
No one mentioned marrying a Canadian - though that may not work any more.
deserter says: with the support of Canadians and help from parliament
Which parliamentarians? Or do you not want to say because it might interfere with the motion passing?
Ryan Johnson, don’t give up hope. Even if it turns out that you are taking the Karlheinz Schreiber route, maybe all that is needed for amnesty is a change of regime. And there is still hope that you can be Canadian.
BTW - do you find any differences between the way news stories are covered on the CBC and CTV as compared to CNN?
Which do you think is better - Little Mosque on the Prairie or Corner Gas?
BTW 2 - What do you think of all the debate about whether Canada should be handing over prisoners to Afghan authorities?
peacemaker, I still think that Jesus of Montreal was better than Born on the Fourth of July and should have won instead. That said, many didn’t know the truth of what was going on until they got over there. I am guessing that many of the deserters are avoiding a second tour.
Might as well put up a sign saying “No liberals allowed”. Conservatives hate liberals but liberals can’t hate them and still be liberals.
ezeflyer, I think that we have different views of what constitutes a liberal. Americans when they think “liberal” think of hippies burning their draft cards while smoking pot and chanting “Make love not war.” The Canadian concept of what it means to be a Liberal is - er - quite different:
http://www.waitingformartin.ca/videos/hatchet.html
The Liberals tend to put their election promises into something called the Red Book.
That said, I dare you to put the words “Iggy” and “brison” in the same youtube search.
Another old addage about party conventions: You go to a Conservative convention to get drunk; You go to a Liberal convention to get laid; You go to an NDP convention to collect policy papers.
Welcome to the future of the North American Partnership under the rules of the Military/Industrial Corporation of America.
vaudree, its great work your doing, for your info
Table 4. Lethality Ratios in Afghanistan, Jan 2006
United States 4.45
Britain 6.3 - 9.8
Canada 14.4
NATO 5.0 - 12.9
Soviets (1980s) 12.5
www.cursor.org/stories/relativelethality.html
ezeflyer, you wrote,
“Conservatives hate liberals but liberals can’t hate them and still be liberals.”
That’s why we’re progressives. No weak-kneed limosine liberals here.
Besides, God doesn’t hate conservatives. He just hates conservatism.
Vaudree:
Naomi Klein is married to Avi Lewis who is the son of Stephen Lewis who I believe is the son of David Lewis.
Maybe the Bush administration couldn’t care less if the soldiers refused to fight. The neo-cons are rabid believers of everything being privatized so this would be another good opportunity for them to totally privatize the entire army and the military complex. These extremists would privatize the air we breathed, if they could.
Had the opportunity to listen to Brandon Hughey when he spoke at University of Victoria. What an articulate, soft-spoken young man. His maturity and intelligence was exceptional for such a young man. I was so impressed with him.
Why can’t Canada give refugee status to those fleeing from any more war-death and destruction? This is the risk for those sent as fodder for Bush’s illegal war:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/11/15/wounded.marine/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
A once good-looking man now is brain-damaged, missing a limb, and looks like a monster makeup job, and the VA thinks he’s not all that disabled?
God in heaven, what has America come to? America may be militarily powerful in the world, but American citizens are ignored and stamped on. Americans have nowhere to go to get away from this kind of hell.
We have sent Israel billions of our hard-earned tax dollars — while our citizens go without. Why?
“Thanks to the unconstitutional largess of the cowardly Congress, Israel is a rich country and one of the world’s leading military powers. It doesn’t need American aid. It is time to quit dancing to the tune of a lobby with dual loyalties and to pursue America’s interests.” — Charley Reese
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18733.htm
Canada’s direct move to the right started with the previous Liberal government. Martin signed the bi-national agreement(smart borders) in 2001. This gave the US powers over the US/Canada border, NorthCom to oversee security from the Mexican border to the North Pole, out to 500 miles and includes arming space.
NAFTA, the first step to the formation of the North American Union, was turned down by Canadians but brought in anyway by the Molroney Conseratives. The new label is called the Security Prosperity Partnership. Through the SPP we are currently harmonizing Canadian/US laws. Like no more military awols, Canadians in US jails can just stay there and be executed. Arrest and detention without warrant or trial, and police brutality to become a new way of life.
Here in BC, we have so-called Liberal premier, who is more like a corparate raider than a politician. Sold off the provinces assets under the guise of privatation. Over 500 rivers are up for sale(cheap) and Vancouver’s rapid transit system. Getum while they going cheap.
The United States is a huge, minimum-security labor camp being run by the police, administered by the political elite, controlled by the media for the benefit of the billionaires. When more and more Americans figure that out, there will be far more than just Army deserters seeking refugee status in Canada. Canada is a relatively small country with one-tenth the population of the U.S. What do you expect them to do? Relax their refugee status rules at this point merely on principle?
Some 5,000+ US soldiers went AWOL in 2005. The military rarely tracks them down, and even more rarely punishes them. While I stand in support of Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey, I also can understand the difference between them and someone who is facing imminent danger to their being in their home country.
That said, if I could personally make the decision, ALL persons who refused to fight in war would be more than WELCOME.
Of course the deserters shouldn’t have expected any sympathy from the current regime in Canada since that criminal outfit is the same one which that crook, and former PM, Mulroony headed and which was inextricably linked to the Ronnie Raygun government. And it is disingenuous to say that Canada is not participating in the U.S.’s illegal wars, because Afganistan never attacked Canada or declared war against Canada, ever.
The present government of Canada does not know or represent the interests of the majority of Canadians. They only know the clique that they represent, which is the monied class which currently is sucking up to the biggest losers in history so that they can extend their privilages for a short while longer without any regard to the future. But that elite status is destined to come to a sudden stop and they will find out that all of their ill-gotten assets can be confiscated and that hiding out on the man-made palm island of Dubai will only be a temporary retreat until nature catches up with them.
The so-called “elite” class in Canada, which really is the organized crime class, has been at war with the ordinary citizens of Canada for years, albeit covertly. For instance, the gun registry law, which they are currently trying to extend, was touted as a means of ensuring the safety of Canadians by letting the government know where all of the guns are. In Canada they already had an FAC system in place for a third of a century, which is the Firearms Acquisition Certificate, which required that anyone buying firearms be registered with the government and all arms sales be recorded. So the government made the new plan of a gun registry and said that it would cost one (1) million dollars to complete. To date, they have spent almost one and a half billion dollars on that program, so you can be sure that it’s not just about gun registry and that much of that $1, 500,000,000, has been diverted to other bank accounts. And, given the criminal theft and bribery scandals that are pervasive with the recent Canadian governments, it is entirely likey that tens of millions of dollars of that monied program is now in private hands. Just another huge scandal ready to burst on the scene after they finish investigating that loser scumbag Mulroony.
I understand why ordinary people — Americans, Canadias, French and British alike — put up with their crooked class governments. What can they do? Write letters to their officials, wave a sign, and protest?
But I don’t understand why mid-level civil servants, mid-ranking military, etc. put up with it. At some point, whether in government or civil service, there must be a point of intersection or nodal inflection. A place in the organizational heirarchy wherein which the mob class meets the ordinary class. At that place one would expect tremendous friction, whistle-blowing, silent striking, insubordination, etc. Or is it a gradual thing? Each step down the heirarchy diffuses a little of the suspicion by degrees — and you eventually get to the grunt on the bottom whose ideas are 180 degrees opposite the modus operandi of the crooks at the top?
I feel bad for Canada — methinks something has been monkeywrenched up there also.
My God, Canada was our hope, whenever our country forced us to kill. I thought I’d be able to land in Vancouver with my daughter for an ice hockey tourney and not get tasered. Bush and Darth Cheney have everyone under some type of narco-induced trance, WTF. Canada, France, Germany of course England.
Vaudree, I understand why you feel, why Canada, why not choose freely, you joined.
If he refused orders he would have immediately been, not so politely, escorted by a few MP’s and thrown in the brig.
They could care less if you are gay or high or have a record, they want your ass.
As for laying down arms and not shooting anyone, I do not know too many people that are being shot by 4 or 5 snipers, hangrenades thrown at you that will stand there and , simply DIE. It is against the nature of the beast, self preservation.
I think it was a woman earlier, I did not sleep all night so I don’t feel like scrolling up, I apologize. She said he was an adult and signed a contract. Does she know what the military is allowed legally by this Devils Spawn that are our leaders? My personal email address, bam, bam, bam all emails trying to solicit my 17, yes 17, year old daughter so thay can send her where I do not want her to go just to murder her and send her home to Mom in a cardboard box, if anything is left of her. I blocked every address my little devious brain could come up with in regards to military, I was USAF in the 70’s, I know what they do to you.
Secondly, they recruit in impoverished neighborhoods, thats where they set up shop. Where I live it is N. Broad in Philly. You do not dare get out of your car in the day there, at night bye bye. They offer ‘Incentives’ $20,000, to those kids it’s a million. It is a chance to get out of a place of NO EXIT. Shameful, steal peoples children so they can be murdered.
We must start an underground railroad of sorts for these kids, Army desertion up 80%. I have plenty of room, but I have 7 pooches, if they even raise their voice to them they will see how the ‘Crazy Dog Lady’ dresses them down. My neighbors love me, I may just be ‘The Crazy Lady’ now.
I’m serious as a heart attack about the underground railroad, Philly the last stop for Free Slaves. We have so many Vets for Peace, Friends Meeting Houses, Mosques, us that prefer a pretty color people for peace, so many here would help, give refuge, set up a network.
I am sorry for you Canadians, you’ve been so kind to us, to my family as well everytime she was playing ice hockey, I know you feel shamed by the taser death, my sympathies, you feel disgust that they are forcing these young men back here. You taste a bite of the bitter fruit we have consumed for 7 long years, it is a horrible feeling, we chase legislation, motions, bills, special committees, vetos. The calls, emails, meetings, protests then we are not allowed in Canada anymore, we keep trying, it takes time I remember Vietnam, that war was > than 20 odd years.
Any Canadian, who loves dogs and hockey that , perhaps you too, want to seek refuge come see me, I’ll help you, and happily. I hang my head in shame for what this ?government? has done to innocents, our men and women, Iraqi civilians, Afghani’s, Abu Ghraib, GITMO, by the way DC 12/05/2007 24 hour fast and protest to shut down Gitmo, come if you are able, email any Vets Peace group or you know, the ones that aren’t allowed in Canada peace group. Oh, someone asked for any Iranian websites, that you could talk to other Iranians, I found my file because they’ve been removed from google. damn, they were sites about the latest legislation on prevention of war against Iran, and Nuclear Proliferation and stuff such as. Sorry, anyone welcome at The Crazy Lady’s home.
Peace, please
notsonaive says: Naomi Klein is married to Avi Lewis who is the son of Stephen Lewis who I believe is the son of David Lewis.
David Lewis was a leader of the NDP before his death. Naomi Klein was the daughter of a draft dodger. Some of these American soldiers who want no more of Iraq have wives and children. Lets just hope that their children marry into a good family - and not the Harpers, the Trudeaus or the Mulroneys.
I am allergic to airfreshioner and most disinfectants (small exposures get me drunk and then I am hung over after). I start to stagger if I get too close to a person drenched in air freshioner lased home care products. I like to point out that Chlorine, which is one of the milder things that I am allergic to, was the agent orange of WWI. I change the tap Brita when the water starts making me drunk.
All I can do to help you guys is continue voting NDP. There is not much else I can do to help you or to make a difference.
Turkiye, Canada is still your hope - the fight isn’t over - until it is you can stay. Maybe even for the rest of your life if Olivia Chow, her co-workers and her husband get their way. And yes we know that they prey on the poor in poor neighbourhoods and keep going after them until they relent and join. We know the recruiters lie. There was a show with episodes available on line which showed the recruiters tactics which should be shown in every school in the US - but it won’t be. I am feeling a bit pissed off that I can’t show you it. I would have been able to a couple months ago.
And the teen years are a volatile period - they get them when they are dumped by their girl friends or boy friends. Those recruiters are predators.
All I can give you is this - The National’s archive on Military issues - which tends to be much milder and gentler and to leave out the gory details:
http://www.cbc.ca/national/archive/category.html?militaryafghanistan
Paul Bramscher November 18th, 2007 11:17 am — “But I don’t understand why mid-level civil servants, mid-ranking military, etc. put up with it.”
That’s a good question, Paul. Contrary to popular opinion, many (most?) public servants take very seriously their sworn duty to implement the policies handed down by their “political masters” as duly elected representatives of “the people.” Nevertheless, in the past, the public service has exerted some moderating influence through more or less subtle resistance against some extreme measures. But, more recently, even that minimal ability has been increasingly constrained by “contracting out” and “privatization” of many functions that were formerly within their realm.
Whatever else one may think about the forces of rightward drift in our “free and democratic” societies, they are certainly not as stupid as some wishful thinkers would portray them. Their combined strategies seldom neglect any potential obstacles.
Tell Ty Ziegel that he has put on a bit of weight. There is still a bit more that can be done for his face - they better not say that they have done all they can for him in that department because plastic surgery is capable of much much more. I don’t know how severe the brain injury is, though, but no one in that shape should be fighting for medical care or benefits - they owe him!
That said, he doesn’t look that bad now. Takes a bit of getting used to, but I can see him falling in love again with someone who can love him back. Tell him that.
vaudree
Someone already loves him. He married his sweetheart last year:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2870953
But he will always be terribly disfigured.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article1294008.ece
Nobody should have to pay such a ghastly price for Bush’s illegal murderous war of imperialism. I honestly wish that were GW Bush instead of Ty Ziegel. But Ty Ziegel has something Bush doesn’t have: a strong strong spirit of survival and life.
Canada has sucuumbed to the same elite that have taken control of our country. Even France now has a suspect leader. No where to escape these bastards nowdays.
“Canada has taken a turn to the right, probably due to the fact that many 9/11 operatives came through Canada, 9/11 itself, then Madrid and London incidents. The other element is, with the US out of control, maybe you need a strong posture.”
mir, you’ve fallen for the propaganda. All of the 9/11 hijackers were on US visas.
while the are buying time with the bureaucracy in canada they should get some kind of training for work then they can be allowed to stay in canada by filling a job that canada has lack of workers in, I heard bakers are in high demand
anney,
Ty enjoyed the rush of war, I can fill you in if your interested.
Updating:
“And so before their first wedding anniversary Ty and Renee decided to separate.”
-Sonja Gupta, CNN: ‘Broken Government - Waging War on The V.A. Nov 17 2007
Not commenting on the soldier to insurgent death ratio except to say that it seems to be higher in Afghanistan than Iraq and to depend on where in each country one is situated. Feel uncomfortable to the degree that this is a combat mission rather than a peace-keeping mission.
Question Period is in another hour, you can watch it live on CPAC. Olivia Chow should be saying something about the American Draft Dodgers either today or tomorrow. You can watch it on line if you want to. Or check back in a couple of days when the transcript is on Hansard.
http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=template&act=view3&pagetype=watch&lang=e&watchID=1e
Arvy,
I can’t recall the law offhand, but I know of at least one federal law which is supposed to protect the civil bureaucracy against undue political interference.
I believe there is a rampant pissant cowardice in our culture, and that cowardice is often on the rise as a country’s economy goes south. People are worried about their jobs, afraid to rock the boat.
The civil service is different from military culture, however, in that it includes professionals (medicine, law, IT, university faculty, scientists, etc.) who may sometimes know more than their management. They may not even be managed by members of their own profession. Hence, they owe both their professions and the public a certain degree of responsibility. i.e. to find some tactful way of countering the more rabid/unreasonable/sociopathic politicians.
Let’s pick a hypothetical example of a doctor at a VA center somewhere. His manager has only a 4 year business degree, family wealth and connections. Maybe his brother went to law school with a senator. Anyway, he’s got a cushy job managing a staff of physicians, psychiatrists, etc. If he begins dabbling in professional judgments about health care, medicine, etc. instructing his staff how to treat patients, the doctors, nurses, etc. owe it to their profession, their clientele, and to the American people to exert their professional credentials. Especially when people’s lives are at stake and there’s no room for political monkeybusiness.
I wonder sometimes if those who sign up to be employed by the military have a caveat in their minds (it certainly ain’t in writing!) that they’ll only do the safe parts of the job. Individual soldiers, other than casting votes like the rest of us, cannot make our foreign policy, and by constitutional mandate are under the orders of the civilian government. I heartily disagree with the wars undertaken by the current administration, I believe they were based on deliberate fraud when undertaken, and that we are not the “good guys.” I wish that, consistent with force protection, they’d bring all our folks home this afternoon. But deserters? They gotta do what they gotta do, but there are consequences.
Canada is not the bad guy here.