Poll: Most Israelis Support Using Nukes
Approximately 72 percent of Israelis support the use of nuclear weapons in certain circumstances, according to a Canadian survey released recently.The survey - conducted jointly at the end of July by the Simons Foundation and Angus Reid Strategies - was answered by adults in six countries and showed that 37% of Israelis believed the use of nuclear weapons to prevent a war would be justified, while 35% believed the weapons could be justifiably used during a war.
In addition, the survey found that Israel had the lowest public support for destroying nuclear weapons out of all the countries questioned.
Israel also had the highest percentage in favor of the country using its “power and influence in a way that serves its own interests” - approximately 55% - as opposed to “coordinat[ing] with other countries to do what’s best for the world as a whole.”
Nearly 72% also agreed that “nuclear weapons place Israel in a unique position, so it is not in our interest to participate in treaties that would reduce or eliminate our purported nuclear arsenal.”
About three-quarters of Israelis also said they would feel safer if they knew for certain that Israel had nuclear weapons. Israel has thus far maintained its policy of nuclear ambiguity.
The organizers of the study suggested that Israel accorded greater importance to the nuclear form of defense due to the Iranian threat, Army Radio reported.
The study spanned a sample of 1,000 adults in Britain, France, Italy, Germany and the US along with Israel.
© 2007 The Jerusalem Post
Lets hope they don’t use them!!! Particularily on Iran!!!
Are they really talking about Israel using nukes or manipulating the Bush administration to use nukes for Israel? The neo cons are pushing for airstrikes on Iran. Dick Cheney belongs to the neo con think tank PNAC. He has been pushing hard for months for an airstrike. The neo con propaganda machine has been cranked up again with the same style of rhetoric. For example, we have airstrikes on about 200 critical targets that eliminates Iran’s capability to go to war then wait for the Iranian public to revolt and overthrow their government. That sounds very similar to Iraqis will throw flowers at our feet as liberators, overthrow of Saddam would be a cakewalk, oil revenues would pay for reconstruction, and it would take 6 months at most.
Lets learn from history instead of repeating past mistakes. We didn’t know what we were getting into in 2003 and I doubt that we currently know what we would be getting into with airstrikes on Iran.
If Israel is going to do their own airstrikes on Iran, they may get a regional Shia Muslim backlash.
Nearly 72% also agreed that “nuclear weapons place Israel in a unique position, so it is not in our interest to participate in treaties that would reduce or eliminate our purported nuclear arsenal.”….
Where’s the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) when you need them? Oh I forgot busy searching Iran’s facilities who is a signatory to IAEA in contrast to a US sponsored Israel who is not…But don’t bring that up lest you get accused by being “you know what”…
According to Gordon Prather [9/1/07:antiwar.com], “IAEA has once again verified to all IAEA members and NPT-signatories “the non-diversion of the declared nuclear materials” by Iran. Furthermore, Iran and the IAEA Secretariat have just announced an important agreed “time table” for “resolution” by year’s end of “all outstanding questions” relevant to the implementation of Iran’s Safeguards Agreement. And even some “questions” that aren’t relevant”.
So if any country is going to use Nuclear war heads it’s USA and “you know who” which will go nameless because of “you know what”…
And heaven help us if “you know who” uses “you know what”….
Oy Vey!
What is wrong with their minds?
And people wonder why another middle eastern country might desire to acquire a matching lethality.
Well, at least many Evangelicals and others (with even less integrity) would “have it their way” - a nuclear war in the Middle East would mean that Armageddon has arrived and the Second Coming of Our Lord is not far behind.
I’d guess that beings on many other planets in our galaxy have made similar choices…and destroyed themselves in the process.
Time is of the essence. We, the human species, might consider growing up (maturing), and get it that this is our (one and only) Homeland Earth.
Am I wrong on this?
As Rev. King said, we we must “learn to get along as brothers [and sisters]…or we will perish as fools.”
This is just one would expect from a privleged gated community group dominating their own tiny Apartheid country all maintained via US government support.
Israel is the total antithesis to what a democratic country actually is. They exist only through their their use of terrorism against others and the support that gathers from the US Right Wing.
And the results of this poll, dear readers, is far more chilling than any of the mistranslations of anything any Iranian ever said.
I bet the results would be similar in the US. After all they are both countries whose very existence and national character is based on racist conquest and colonization.
When a majority of a people support such vile violence on others, than something has gone very awry with this system of so-called “democracy”.
With the system of mass media manipulation of the masses honed to an art, ther is very, little real participation of the demos in “democracy”. Democracy was intended to be first and foremost open and deliberative, not rule by a majority mob of thugs, as it is in US and Canada.
My brother is fed up with the US and is departing for Toronto, for good, within a month, and cannot take his cat to where he will be living. Is there anyone here in western Pennsylvania, or up there in the Toronto who can adopt him - a 5 yr old short-haired neutered male named “Gros-Tete”.
The extremist leaders of Israel and the United states are the #1 world terrorists and obstacles to world peace.
They need to caged, for the good of the whole world.
A monster created the Shoah, and the Shoah created a monster.
I wonder what the one in five Israelis who are Arabs think about using atomic weapons on Mecca.
“US, Israel Poised to Repeat Saddam’s Error”
by Uri Avnery October 1, 2007 [Excerpt]
“A respected American paper posted a scoop this week: Vice President Dick Cheney, the King of Hawks, has thought up a Machiavellian scheme for an attack on Iran. Its main point: Israel will start by bombing an Iranian nuclear installation, Iran will respond by launching missiles at Israel, and this will serve as a pretext for an American attack on Iran”.
“Far-fetched? Not really….What would happen to us if we agreed to Cheney’s plan? Our pilots would risk their lives to bomb the heavily defended Iranian installations. Then Iranian missiles would rain down on our cities. Hundreds, perhaps thousands would be killed. All this in order to supply the Americans with a pretext to go to war…..”
___________
“One thing I am ready to predict with confidence: whoever pushes for war against Iran will come to regret it”.
“Some adventures are easy to get into but hard to get out of.
The last one to find this out was Saddam Hussein. He thought that it would be a cakewalk – after all, Khomeini had killed off most of the officers, and especially the pilots, of the shah’s military. He believed that one quick Iraqi blow would be enough to bring about the collapse of Iran. He had eight long years of war to regret it.”
“Both Americans and Israelis may soon be feeling that the Iraqi mud is like whipped cream compared to the Iranian quagmire.”
Well since Israel teaches its children to write messages on bombs to be dropped on civilian areas what can you expect?
When Israel does get wiped off the map it will be very ugly indeed.
I do wonder, if the majority of Israels would support using their nukes, if say Syria, Jordan, Saudia Ariabia or Iran had a like number of atomic weapons. You know, that may be a damn good idea. ___ If all nations had atomic bombs, it would insure world peace at last.
For example: If every adult passenger getting on a commercial flight were given a loaded pistol, no one would dare start anything.
Kem Patrick please do not add to the general stupidity. How many times have you read of people shooting themselves in the leg, foot balls by accident? Imagine a planeful of USAers with loaded weapons and there is an accidental discharge, there would be a bloodbath, all dead.
Whatfools has a good point if you subtract the one in five who are Arab Israeli does that make it somewhat just under 100% who are in nuking their enemy?
I strongly urge Stephen Harper to call back the Canadian Ambassador from that country, shut down the embassy and have nothing further to do with that country.
Also speaking of nukes I have been given to understand that one of the six nukes which left Minot North Dakota two weeks ago has not been accounted for. Also that all of the ordinance loaders have died since then of various causes, I believe I read six deaths in all. Do you think this is something to worry about? I mean with the bin Laden put options recently made on the stock exchange (4.5 billion dollars worth) and the rising clamour against Iran do you think the next false flag will be a nuked city here in North America? Whats the chance of them picking a Canadian city? Just a thought.
My current understanding is that many of the extraterrestrials are HERE —(and have been dealing with governments since at least 1947)— to help us avert just this kind of scenario.
THEY know human life is extraordinarily precious, even if we don’t.
For more info see:
www. disclosureproject.org
Just remember the “mini-nukes” or “bunker busters” that Al Bareidi described as “cute sounding words” do refer to bombs that are 10 to 100 times more powerful than those dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The full report is at http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/Simons%20Report.pdf
The Israelis in support of using nuclear weapons are absolutely crazy. It could cause a chain reaction of violence.
Israel is the size of NJ and Pakistan already has nuclear weapons.
What are they thinking with all this aggression? They are small, surrounded and out numbered. The powerful US is Israel’s friend now but the US is a fickle nation and it has an over stretched military and economic problems.
Watching Israel is like watching someone committ suicide.
So of course the Israelis approving of nuclear strikes wouldn’t object if nuclear weapons were used against them, right? Goose-gander principle and all that.
What a bunch of depraved human beings…
Whatever happened to good old-fashioned terror of nuclear weapons and the danger they are to all life? Has a mass death-wish gripped some groups of people? Are people so near the edge of breaking with the tension in the world that they’d rather see everything destroyed than keep on keeping on? Or has stupidity replaced knowledge and reason?
Uri Avnery is a modern-day prophet, and like his biblical ancestors, he goes unheard among his people, who seem bent on going down with their “enemies.”
Collen– Israel is our friend???
What kind of friend has extracted billions of dollars of your taxpayer money, constantly spies on you, goads you into unnecessary wars with Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and makes thier enemies your enemies? Please this is tired and simply untrue. Israel is hardley a friend with a friend like Israel who needs enemies! I agree with George Washington when he warned us to beware of foriegn entanglements. Although I will say Saudi Arabia is no better.
How about tasers or mace White Rose?
they are out of their vulcan minds………………
Uhhhhh, WHITE ROSE, are you serious? Please tell us where you read that story about the six dead airmen? BTW, there was no missing sixth nuke, that was a faulty report from the first news accounts. Of course it opens the door for some ’serious’ discussions.
To consider any use of Nuclear Weapons, EVER, under any circumstance, is utter insanity.
“37% of Israelis believed the use of nuclear weapons to prevent a war would be justified”
Even the statement is self contradictory. That would start a war not prevent one.
Honestly, there has to be some kind of mass-hysteria, mass insanity going on, on a world wide spectrum. This goes beyond idiots prone to fear mongering, or have we just been repeating history with little change for the last 10,000 years?
Will humanity as a whole never step beyond that of a 5 year old?
As a kid I was told we’d be living on Mars by now. What happened?
Kem I didn’t know you were joking, but about the nuke thing a quick google on the topic matter gives a ton stuff.
for example
http://digitalinsurgents.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/missing-nukes-and-the-death-of-6-minot-air-force-people/
KEM PATRICK
I hadn’t read it either, but here it is:
Six Minot airmen die mysteriously in one week — September 24, 2007
Another account:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=24190§ionid=3510203
dcbeltway
You turned it around..the US has been Israel’s friend. Whether Israel has been the US’s friend?..sometimes… maybe…they may be a source for spies in the ME.
The US is giving money and military support to Israel and it has for a while. So the US is Israel’s friend. The US may not give that kind of support in the future and Israelis should not count on it.
I am ambivalent about Israel. They are aggressive and caught in a cycle of violence, but they are a democracy and well educated. Its a tragedy. I don’t know if the US is any better as a nation than Israel is.
Keep in mind that your nation and mine is considered by many around the world as having similar policies to Israal’s. If we don’t change course Americans will be less well liked than in the past…We are less liked now but we could drop further.
A friend who is Russian once told me people would get angry at her for what Russia was doing..but she said..she had nothing to do with what was happening..I am much more sympathetic to her these days.
Sometimes it feels like a tsunami is coming..other times its like watching a train wreck in slow motion and it feels like I as an individual can do very little.
KEM PATRICK
Two of the six who’ve died were a husband and wife from Barksdale AFB:
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070915/BREAKINGNEWS/70915012
It doesn’t say anything about their being ordnance loaders.
I wonder why they didn’t interview the people in Pakistan, which has nukes, and ask them the same questions?
How do you think Israel could nuke its neighbors and not suffer from the radioactive fall out? Chernobyl’s fall-out drifted all the way across Europe.
Why isn’t Bushco trying to persuade Pakistan or Israel to disarm, rather than coming down on Iran which doesn’t even have any yet? Because this country has the biggest nuclear stockpile of anyone.
We all know what these kinds of polls are worth — the pollsters know how to obtain what they are looking for. Israel is being set up as the scapegoat for an attack on Iran, and the MSM is uncritically doing the same thing they did in the run up to the Iraq war all over again, only this time the supposedly progressive internet media is joining them, at least in setting up a scapegoat.
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones,”
and:
“The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one.”
-said that very sagacious man, Albert Einstein.
These days there seems to be more bananas in high office than in the average grocery store. And they in turn warp the minds of their people who, with the aegis of the mEss media, create such a potage of confused minds and mangled hearts.
Only genuinely demented people, -filled with crazy hatred, could ever contemplate the mass murder of their fellow human beings in this way.
Only those who are a thousand miles away from any form of ‘Godly’ thoughts, could ever envision such satanic stupidity.
Only those who are truly lost and very wicked could plan on hurting so many of God’s creatures with the use of such despicable weapons as these.
~ And so these people are our challenge.
We have to help them understand just how far they are removed from anything wholesome, righteous or sane. Somehow they must be helped to realise that they have not ONE iota of permission to so damage the earth, -and it’s peoples, in this way.
By such hostility, they are fighting God, - and that’s one battle they will NEVER win…
“Blessed are the peacemakers…”
and, (c/o Buddha)~ “Violence is misdirected energy.”
frankly, i’m getting a little sick and and tired of israel. of all people, you would think the jews would be the last to condone genocide. i guess when your the chosen ones, on top of the way they are treating the palistinians, a little collaterel damage is insignificant.
Imperial Athens started a war to help an ally. They lost their empire.
The last Kaiser of Imperial Germany supported Austria-Hungary right into World War One. The Kaiser lost his throne.
An ally could lead the USA into its last war.
It’s happened before.
Shame on ANY nation using nuclear weapons! Wasn’t anything, anything at all, learned after Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Chernobyl?
Where is our dog in this fight?
terryb: The Jews do not condone genocide, and have never committed genocide. Go look it up in the dictionary.
As someone pointed out to me on another thread, Hitler acted in the name of Christianity. The Crusades were in the name of Christianity. Bush has said that he believes he is doing God’s will. That does not mean that all Christians are cut from the same cloth. There are good people in every race, religion and region of the world, and you shouldn’t generalize based on the extremists.
You also need some religious studies — go read the old testament. The “chosen” people derives from God’s decision to hold the Jews to a higher standard than everyone else, not because the Jews are any better than anyone else - a mixed blessing. You are not God and are not entitled to set different standards for different groups. We should hold everyone to the same high standard.
Every group has its extremists, its nutcases. We are all responsible for our own behaviour and it’s time people started holding the Palestinians responsible for not improving their own situation when they have an opportunity to, and for not making the best use of the help they are given from any source.
The run up to attacking Iran has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with nuclear capabilities, and everything to do with Iran’s oil and natural gas reserves. That was the point of my questions. It is a replay of the run up to Iraq.
Apparently 72% of Israelis aren’t capable of making the logical leap from using nukes to self-annihilation. Sometime it seems that this kind of mentality is less an outgrowth of “survival” (ie. “never again”) than that of martyrdom. But then there is a certain inexorable logic of a state premised on perpetual military domination.
The twisted monster-head growing out of the US shoulder speaks again…
ezeflyer: The American oil/gas companies, and the military/industrial/mercernary corporations have the biggest dog in this fight. The rest of us who don’t conserve energy, who drive gas guzzlers, and who fight a carbon tax and renewable energy installations (such as wind farms) have a smaller dog in this fight. I invested in solar panels on the roof of my townhouse (and not in a giant house I don’t need) and telecommute 3 days a week. The sun dries my laundry. I have also been a member of an local organic CSA for 6 or 7 years now. If you don’t want to have a dog of any size in this fight, you need to do what you can to reduce your energy footprint, and persuade your friends and relatives to do the same.
The “Six who died” story doesn’t smell right to me.
http://www.kxmc.com/News/Nation/164330.asp
I’d worry more about the Soviet backpack nukes that are still unaccounted for. Perhaps we will be in for a Boxing Day Suprise from UPS…
Umm. Does Isreal know the meaning of the term “self inflicted sucide”. Because that’s what will happen because Isreal will quickly cease to exist if it does start chucking nukes. With idiots like this running the country maybe a mid-east MAD is a good idea. Maybe.
WW3 Has Already Started or: 18 Ways To Stop The Bomb
http://www.chycho.com/?q=stopthebomb
Below are some suggestions and resources to help in bringing about a positive change:
1. Spend time with who and what you love. Surrounding ourselves with love should help us to remember the beauty of life.
2. Learn to filter and recognize propaganda. It is corporations that profit from wars, not individuals. Always apply the filter: ‘Ownership determines content.’ “If we accept that it is desirable for individuals to practice moral agency as fully as possible, then we should seek to create a different kind of media system.”
3. Your body, your voice, your mind, and your spirit are required at peace rallies for us to reach critical mass. Additional information at the following news sources: CODEPINK: Women for Peace, Raging Grannies, ANSWER Coalition, Stop War, United for Peace, Move On, Anti War, Common Dreams, bellaciao, PEJ News, OpEd News, Information Liberation , Project Censored , Information Clearing House , Global Research , Prison Planet , The Raw Story , Gush Shalom, and Truthout
4. Stop watching corporate news on TV, they do not provide information, just propaganda. Frequent legitimate unbiased news sources such as: The Real News Network, Democracy Now!, International News Net, Sub Media TV, Free Speech TV, Link TV, and Alternative Radio: Audio Energy of Democracy.
5. Stop supporting corporate education and entertainment. Learn about your rights, how society functions, what we have done, and are doing to each other and the planet. Watch and learn from movies and documentaries such as: Earthlings, America: Freedom to Fascism, A World Without Cancer, Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre, Chemtrail: Aerosol Crimes, The Oil Factor: Behind the War on Terror, The Future of Food, Liquid Crystal Vision, Marcus Garvey: Look for me in the Whirlwind, The Doomsday Code, Iraq For Sale, Plan Colombia, The Revolution will Not be Televised, Freedom Downtime: The Story of Kevin Mitnick, Zeitgeist, and Loose Change.
6. Learn about the financial institutions that have been established to profit from the ultimate consuming machine known as war. Watch and share: ZEITGEIST, The Movie: Part 3 of 3 (47:05), and the animated Money As Debt (47:07).
7. Stop supporting mass media that has been the voice of government and corporate propaganda and the driving force behind the recruitment, promotion, and continuation of the war agenda. Begin to acquire your news from actual people blogging and reporting on the true nature of life. News blogs such as: What Really Happened, Ya Ya Canada, Dahr Jamail’s MidEast Dispatches, Desert Peace, Daily Kos, plus countless others available on the Internet.
8. Write, call, and personally contact your representatives in government ( US and Canada), demanding that they begin to represent you and your family, not corporate money. Realize that most of our representatives have not even begun to grasp the “terminal” path that we are on.
9. Not only should you be consuming less and locally, but also producing locally. Corporations over the years have destroyed the infrastructure of local economies, but it is time for us to rebuild. Additional information at Post Carbon Institute, People and Planet , BALLE, 100 Mile diet and numerous other sources available on the Internet.
10. Reduce your dependency on oil by using public transportation and or alternative means of transportation. See Critical Mass for additional information.
11. Downsize your car and/or convert to hybrid transportation. The sooner you do this the better. This will not only save you money on fuel, it will also allow you to sell your large gas-guzzler before the rise in fuel prices reduces the value of your car to nothing. And you better hurry, because the waiting lists for hybrid cars are long and used models are selling for more then the new cars.
12. If you are working for an organization which is actively supporting war then try to find a different occupation which does not require of you to promote the destruction of humanity.
13. Begin to invest in yourself instead of Stock markets who launder money while profiting from war. Additional information for Canada at Stop Pension Plan Investments in War!
14. Begin to work with nature and not against it by learning about natural resources available in your area. Additional information at: World Changing, Planet Friendly network, and NI Business Info.
15. Make healthy eating choices. Studies have found that most bankruptcies are due to medical bills, and since the passing of the Bankruptcy Bill you will no longer be cleared of your debts if you declare bankruptcy in the US, which means that you will become a slave to the banking institutions. This will take away your freedom and force you to abide by their agendas, the main agenda of which is war.
16. Support artists against the war and boycott those that support the war. There are many artists who have officially spoken out against the war and are proactive in their attempts to bring us peace. Some of these artists are: Immortal Technique, System Of A Down , Ben Harper, Dead Prez , Dixie Chicks , Serj Tankian , Anti-Flag, Michael Franti and Spearhead, Charlie Sheen , Susan Sarandon, Rose O’Donald, Banksy, Carlos Latuff , Ben Heine, Simon Regis, and even Sean Penn.
17. Participate in civil disobedience. Peace organizers are now advocating “people in the antiwar movement to move from protesting to performing acts of civil disobedience that ‘get in the way of the war machine.’”
18. Understand that we are one people occupying one planet, and that we are and will be held accountable for the actions of our governments. Learn about our history by reading books such as: Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, A People’s History of the United States, Hegemony or Survival, Wilhelm Reich in Hell, Mass Psychology of Fascism [PDF] , Pirates of the Caribbean: Axis of Hope, The Shock Doctrine, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, and War Is a Racket written by America’s most decorated general US Marine Corp Major General Smedley Butler.
“I do wonder, if the majority of Israels would support using their nukes, if say Syria, Jordan, Saudia Ariabia or Iran had a like number of atomic weapons.” - Kem P.
Obviously not!
USandIsrael only recently voted against a proposal in the UN general assembly for a nuclear free middle east. It shows how much they want peace. But if there were others with nukes pointed at them, it would be a totally different story.
USandIsrael want to use nukes against Iran, which poses no threat to any country. Any attempt by the Iranians to make peace is resisted with force, and great dollops of demonizing propaganda.
“The chosen people derives from God’s decision to hold the Jews to a higher standard than everyone else - a mixed blessing”
And what will god do to them, in that case, if they exhibit totally abominable behaviour. If they steal land, bulldoze housing, wall off an entire population, prevent trade, destroy educational and medical facilities, formulate the empires plans for world domination, manipulate congress through into needless war, use Zionist ownership of media to create war and regularly invade neighbours who haven’t the ability to fight back destroying virtually all their infrastructure using trumped up and fabricated excuses.
“The run up to attacking Iran has nothing to do with Israel”. We could only say that if Israel wasnt threatening war, and manipulating the empire into war.
“Israel is being set up as the scapegoat for an attack on Iran.” If Israel does not want this, it should be in opposition to war, instead of using its considerable influence to create war.
How can the people of the holocaust support weapons of mass destruction?
This is insane and absolutely immoral. The only way forward is to ban WMD not escalate demonization. There is no end in sight when nuclear weapons are used again.
http:// peacesource.net
greengal (5:40 pm) makes some amazing declarations:
“….We are all responsible for our own behaviour and it’s time people started holding the Palestinians responsible for not improving their own situation when they have an opportunity to, and for not making the best use of the help they are given from any source.” This comment is something that only a self-satisfied & comfortably brainwashed American could possibly come up with. It’s like an American of the 1950’s commenting on the Jim Crow laws by saying, “It’s time people started holding Negroes responsible for not improving their own situation when they have an opportunity to…”; or a white South African under apartheid making a similar dumb remark about blacks in that society.
“…The run up to attacking Iran has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with nuclear capabilities, and everything to do with Iran’s oil and natural gas reserves. … It is a replay of the run up to Iraq.” Nothing to do with Israel? Is that so? Why then are all the neo-cons with close ties to Israel (Wm Kristol, John Bolton, Elliot Abrams, Norman Podhortetz etc) banging the drums so loudly for war? Why is Benjamin Netanyahu making inflammatory remarks in speeches, such as “It’s 1938 and Iran is Germany. And Iran is racing to arm itself with atomic bombs”? BTW, if you believe the current period is a replay of the run-up to Iraq, you’re contradicting yourself, since it’s well known that Israel had plenty to do with Iraq, too. Richard Perle & Paul Wolfowitz, 2 other neocons with very close ties to Israel, were key advocates of invading Iraq.
It’s true that the run-up to attacking Iran has very much to do with oil & gas; and that the allegations about “nuclear capabilities” is a phony pretext for war, concocted by Washington & Tel Aviv. But the claim that it has “nothing to do with Israel” is ludicrous. All of Seymour Hersh’s reports have demonstrated clearly that Israel is an integral part of the war planning.
I just heard on Keith Olberman that Norman Podhertetz has said he is fairly confident Bush will run a bombing raid on Iran before his term is up. He had apparently met with Bush and had been pushing for it. This is madness! If we as a people allow this to happen again IN OUR NAMES, we are lost. We’ll have finally and irreversibly lost our souls and have nobody to blame but ourselves.
“Israel also had the highest percentage in favor of the country using its “power and influence in a way that serves its own interests” - approximately 55% - as opposed to “coordinat[ing] with other countries to do what’s best for the world as a whole.””
That’s why the U.S. and Israel are such good friends; a shared superiority complex brings people closer together.
Don’t you all realize how absolutely crazy you are, thinking that a small country with virtually no energy resources is so influential that it can manipulate a country like ours into doing its will? Don’t you realize whose propaganda you are buying into?
Israel is being used for cover while our government builds permanent military bases in Iraq, in countries in Asia with friendly dictators along the oil pipeline, and next in Iran. This is all about oil resources and nothing else.
Why aren’t you worried about Pakistan’s nukes?
“Why aren’t you worried about Pakistan’s nukes?”
i am
“Why aren’t you worried about Pakistan’s nukes?”
Pakistan has not invaded its neighbours.
It is not threatening to bomb other countries.
Israel has and is.
“Don’t you all realize how absolutely crazy you are, thinking that a small country with virtually no energy resources is so influential that it can manipulate a country like ours into doing its will?”
How could Zionsts like Rupert Murdoch, Pearl, or Wolfowitz manage to manipulate a country. Why does America’s strategic plan mirror the “Plan for the New American Century”.
Just how would Rupert Murdoch manage to manipulate public opinion? Does he have some sort of special access to the media? Why is it that our media does not bother to mention who breaks the most UN resolutions, even after most of them are vetoed by the US. Why is it that Israeli perpetrated atrocities are ignored in our media while Palestinian ones are ignored, even though nine times more Palestinians are killed for each Israeli?
How would AIPAC campaign donations and lobbying manage to affect members of congress and the senate? Just how many countries would get away with sinking a US warship? Why is it that when Lebanon could not fight back and could do no better than sit there and be bombed, and when Israel was running short of weapons, the US congress rushed more weapons to Israel in order to continue terrorising Lebanon from a great height.
Does anyone know how Israel got nuclear weapons in the first palce? Did they ever test?
Braithwa actually Pakistan is a threat to its neighbors particularily Afghanistan as its Pakistan that backs and funds the Taliban but that’s the subject of another thread all together. Pakistan probably was not the best example to use. I will say however the Pakistani lobby has far less clout then the 800 pound gorilla Israeli lobby.
dcbeltway, it was Jefferson who warned to stay out of treaties with foreign governments. I know he’s rolling in his grave and has been for a long, long time. We need to get the hell out of the UN.
“We are all responsible for our own behaviour and it’s time people started holding the Palestinians responsible for not improving their own situation when they have an opportunity to…”
Exactly! And the best way of all for the Palestinians to improve their situation would be to drive the white, zionist invaders into the sea. No one has to die. Fishermen can pick them up off the beach like at Dunkirk, and take them to Cyprus, Turkey or Greece, and from there they can can find your way back to Brooklyn, Skokie, Moscow, Squirrel Hill, or wherever else they came from. It’s time they get to experience their own Nakhba - but minus the massacres.
But since such a scenario is unrealistic, I think they would gladly settle for the a single, secular state, from the Jordan to the sea, with a constitution guaranteeing free practice of religion and strict separation of church-temple- Mosque and state and with right of return for everyone driven out since 1948. Heck, Syria may even let such a future Republic of Palestine-Israel keep the Golan Heights as gesture of reconciliation.
And, as far as being a “God-chosen people” meaning that they were chosen to be held to a higher standard; well, why would their god do that unless they think they are a some kind of superior race? I mean, is it the dumb kids or the smart kids who get held to higher standards and go to the “talented and gifted” classes?
I frankly wish Jews would just quietly drop this “God-chosen people” doctrine - it’s manifestly racist.
So we see that ‘greengal’ is a shamelessly dishonest defender of a government that only last summer violated all tenets of international law by bombing civilian infrastructure, killing about 1000 civilians & making refugees out of perhaps a million, bombing Beirut Airport & areas of high civilian population density. The pretext for this was that 2 (two) Israeli soldiers had been kidnapped (though Israel has for years been kidnapping or outright assassinating large numbers of Arabs, & still has probably 10,000 in its jails). Somehow, something seems pathologically disproportionate & murderous about a response like that.
This of course is the same government that has not only stolen large parts of the West Bank by armed force, but has also colonized all the best land, and run a brutal occupation for 40 years. And then built a separation wall, not on the border of the West Bank, but in such a way as to steal even more land. All of this is in flagrant violation of international law. Every country in the world opposes it except the US & its flunkies. Relations between Palestinians & Israelis have accurately been described by honest observers as “apartheid.”
‘greengal’ whines, “Don’t you all realize how absolutely crazy you are, thinking that a small country with virtually no energy resources is so influential that it can manipulate a country like ours into doing its will?” — Actually, I said nothing about Israel “manipulating” the US. Rather, the 2 aggressor nations are partners. Their interests coincide almost perfectly (and, in the case of the PNAC & neocons, they’re the *** exact same people ***). Yes, the US is the senior partner. And Yes, the US is after the oil. But Israel is its partner. The relationship is entirely symbiotic. One might say they both manipulate each other, to some extent. Or one might say their interests are so much in synch, that there’s not much need for manipulation.
It’s funny. On some websites, I’ve run into the crowd that claims that the US has become an overt terrorist-aggressor Frankenstein — and (according to them) it’s 100% because of Israel. That crowd is wrong, because Israel is not 100% of it. The oil & military bases & geostrategic dominance are all large parts of it. But here, we have ‘greengal’ — the other end of the spectrum — trying to argue that it’s not Israel at all!! What a shamelessly dishonest position! What do you think ‘AIPAC’ is, greengal? What do you think it spends every day, and millions of dollars, doing?
“Just how would Rupert Murdoch manage to manipulate public opinion? Does he have some sort of special access to the media?”
You’re joking, right? He owns Fox News and a load of other newspapers and radio outlets, and just bought WSJ. Log onto www.cjr.org and check it out.
“The oil & military bases & geostrategic dominance are all large parts of it.”
No, that is all of it. And when USA does not think it needs Israel as a reliable friend in the Middle East any more, you will see that USA is nothing more than a fair weather friend.
Try enlarging your horizons and reading on www.energybulletin.net.
In this article if I am not mistaken, it said that the Israelis that were polled were from several different countries…that means they were either on vacation or not Israelis. Israelis are German Jews that did not go home after WWII and were given someone else’s country, because God said it was OK….isn’t that how it went…?
We know nothing, except what we are told. Everyone is a lier. A man with too many clocks can never know the time. So it is we are immobilized by chaos.
These names are dividers, generalizations.
I spoke to a preacher who told me that it was all right to kill but not right to murder…hummmmm? I wonder how he would feel about that if I decided that he was worthy of killing? When challenged to know what form the Christ would take on his return, he wavered. When it was suggested that the Christ might opt for a black poor born womyn he backed away from me. He was no longer sure of the earth beneath his feet. An incognito Christ frightened him. It was the words out of his own mouth that were his undoing. I hope his little brain logged some bit of that chance meeting with his own reflection.
Here is a theory. Just a theory, We have a group of bipeds that live under a scorn for generations. Their God has condemned them. They project their paranoia out into the world and defend themselves against these delusions that they have integrated into their psychic-circuits. They learn to accuse everyone of how they feel about themselves.
But who planted the seed of self hate and how was it kept alive so that a nation is made psychotic? We are told that Muslims (who also use the bible) are taught to kill non-Muslims. The Pope in spite of his power over Catholics is able to tell it’s families to burden themselves and weaken their women by brood mare breeding, (the more Catholics the merrier) but somehow not one of these representatives of The Jesus of Peace, has ever said you can not participate in wars. Pre-natal abortion is condemned by Jedieo-Protestants but “post natal” abortion is fine with them.
The sins of the father suffered against the son. So a parent that is dysfunctional will raise a majority of dysfunctional children who in turn will do the same. Some few will have more going for them and will rise above this social enslavement but most are average. One can adopt this scenario to The Jedieo-Christian….Jedieo-Protestant, The Jew the Catholic, the Muslim, any group of ordinary people.
You are born bad, your genitals are mutilated at birth to suppress your natural experiences of life. Mock castration in varying degrees. Suppression of natural forces, children drugged into their chairs at school instead of running an growing alive in life. Their curiosity made dead.
What we have is spirit killers, or a death cult that is like a cancer. Divide the bi-ped and teach it to be sick. Sick of itself. Afraid of others. Taught hate of anything new or different. Made board and insatiable. Now arm these with suicidal weapons. Throw in a few incidents and blab it up on the TV. Pay off the degenerates we call leaders. Shift markets, poison food, water and air with toxins. Sit back and let the diseased pawns exterminate each other.
Think now of the hints all around us… A VICE president that has birds bread so that he can pick them off for his entertainment. What kind of creature would do something like that? That is what we are to them. Would you be willing to bet that they make wagers on the blood games?
When all men of courage, put down their weapons because they recognize they are being used. And all womyn take up at the side of men on behalf of all the children of the world. We shall overcome the spirit killers. They are not a race or a religion or a company. They are not individuals. They are all those who do acts against life as a cowardly mob. When we support those acts we are the mob too. “By your acts you will be known”
The missing bomb? How cute is that? Is their really a missing bomb? I can loose my cell phone, or my keys…but how would The Air Force loose an Atomic bomb? Where oh where has our little bomb gone?….If Iraqi is too unstable to have weapons of mass destruction then what about this country…We lost of fucking nuclear weapon!! Look to the grease that runs the machine. It is us that make it work….someone agreed to move for them. Some one took orders against his peoples best interest. We must all, become individuals and stop greasing the machine. Figure it out….anyway you can. Not revolution evolution. When you are given an order….suspect it….When it feels wrong, don’t do it. When someone says he or she is your enemy and they or you must die. Ask them why they don’t do their own dirty work. Oh that’s right they are leaders…..suspect all leaders of being damaged goods.
Leaders…gamble your money with your lives. Stop paying the moneylenders. Money is their God. Interest, credit, and debt are their sacraments, and all the people of the world are what they play for suckers and use as sacrifice to their God of Greed. Off your knees You are a human being with FREE WILL!
55% opposed to “coordinat[ing] with other countries to do what’s best for the world as a whole.”
…confession of a categorically indefensible attitude.
Jesuit Father and distinguished paleontologist, Pere Teilhard de Chardin framed the fundamental issue this way: “The Age of Nations is past. The task before us is now, if we would not perish,to build the Earth.”
Raine Eisler (1987) echoes all of these concerns in her book The Chalice and the Blade:
“Human evolution is at a crossroads. Stripped to its essentials the central human task is how to organize society to promote the survival of our species and the development of its unique potentials.”
She goes on to quote evolutionary theorist Erwin Lazlo, who notes that humans have the ability to act consciously, and collectively - exercising forethought in choosing their path forward. Lazlo emphasizes that in our “crucial epoch” we “cannot leave the selection of the next step in the evolution of human society and culture to chance.”
Eisler also shares the words of the world-renowned Jonas Salk, who articulated a parallel affirmation - that what we most need now is “caring knowledge:” knowledge that will aid us in selecting attitudes, behaviors, and cultural forms that are “in cooperation with evolution, rather than those that are anti-survival or anti-evolutionary.”
Humanity appears to be rapidly approaching the breaking point. In response to this crisis two outcomes are possible:breakdown or breakthrough.
“Poll: Most Israelis Support Using Nukes.”
Translation: “Most Israelis Are Suicidal.”
“The powerful US is Israel’s friend now but the US is a fickle nation and it has an over stretched military and economic problems.”
i think this was from colleen.
the US might be fickle in all of its other relationship. but AIPAC sees to it that this one special relationship is not broken before the US is broken. and that day may come sooner than AIPAC thinks.
to me it seems they are quite foolhardy, risking the death of the goose that has been laying the golden eggs for them
it seems that israelis have lost their minds. the paranoia had to come after so many years of brutalizing the people whose lands they took and are taking. this kind of brutality has to lead to this. they totally lost their moral compass.
i agree, their only solution is the one-state solution. but their paranoia won’t let them choose the one rational option.
Writer2 exactly the Iran war which AIPAC and the neocons are pushing for will be the death-knell of this country. God help us all these lunatics must be stopped.
greengal October 1st, 2007 10:32 pm
“Just how would Rupert Murdoch manage to manipulate public opinion? Does he have some sort of special access to the media?”
Murdoch also owns the Times of London/England and The Jerusalem Post/Israel.
I think Israel had British help with it’s nukes. What ever happened to the scheme to divert Iraqi water to Israel? That and the “new” Iraqi flag in Israeli blue came out of Briton.
As the Bible says, peace on earth will come through Israel.
Jewish liberality everywhere stops with Israel. There they fall into line with conservatives. Whether driven by fear, exceptionalism, vengeance, or opportunity, “never again” if they have to take out the rest of the world along with themselves using nukes. The Middle East seems nice for Likudniks with imperial ambitions too. BTW, ever hear liberal jews like John Stewart, Al Franken and Randi Rhodes (love them all) mention Israel at all, much less in a negative light?
“Israel also had the highest percentage in favor of the country using its “power and influence in a way that serves its own interests” - approximately 55% - as opposed to “coordinat[ing] with other countries to do what’s best for the world as a whole.”
WHAT A SELFISH BUNCH OF SOBs.
writer2
I think it is not only the US government that has been funding Israel but also the Jewish community in the US has been sending money to Israel. I had registered at Hareetz (Israeli newspaper) on line and I was getting requests in my email for donations during the war in Lebanon. A friend in an Amnesty group said there was interest in Darfur until the war in Lebanon and then the money donated for Darfur dried up. I think that money was being sent to Israel.
Its the Republicans who should have stood up to Bush and its the liberal Jews who should have reasoned with the Israeli government. And as a Christian who believes people should try to follow Christ’s example it is very upsetting to see right wing Christians abuse the Christian faith to do the opposite of Christ’s teachings. Christians have not stood up to the extreme in the Christian religion also.
If people worked from principles instead of from the point of view of what is in the best interest of their own group they wouldn’t make these kinds of mistakes.
Jews have been persecuted for a long time and some of them thought they were more German than Jewish when Hitler first took power….and you can see where that got them. There was even prejudice within the American Jewish community against the poor Jews who were fleeing Europe before it was understood what the Concentration Camps were like. Now I think Jews feel they can only and must rely on one another and must be there to protect one another. The result of all these forces and the expressed hatred of Israel by its neighboring states has formed an Israel that has lost its soul in its over reacting and persecuting the innocent with the guilty.
Israel is in a difficult position. There will be problems for it no matter what course of action is taken.
There is a great deal of distrust by Jews of anyone who is not Jewish imo and an underlying concern that the other person is antisemitic. There is no way to contradict this fear imo for many people and when criticizing Israel it is always in the back of people’s minds that maybe this person is criticizing Israel because they are anti Semitic.
If Israel were taking a better direction, and AIPAC were in support of better principles then the left would be cheering them on and happy to see them with so much power in the US government. But AIPAC is right wing and not following the principles of the left so the left opposes their power.
I don’t know if liberal and moderate Jews will continue to support Israel. They like to think that Israel is a democracy and they can only support what the people there decide to do. There is an underlying fear of persecution and drive to join together to face a threat. “If we don’t help one another who will?” But American Jews are helping to create what is happening in Israel with financial support and with a lack of opposition to groups like AIPAC…and all of this is based in fear.
cat, good for you. well done.
hopefully, peace on earth will come despite israel.
Everyone should read again what nuclear weapons do to people…
on the ground.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki Aug 1945.
The lucky ones are the ones killed at ground zero by the blast .When the nuclear rains strikes the others ,the slow death of radiation poisoning , the water and food is contaminated.
The burns wont heal.
You slowly lose all your immune system ,get and hold all kinds of cancers and infections ,and wither away over years.
As the gift that keeps giving ,nuclear weapons return to your body through soil,water and wind.
Which brings me to the point that in that MiddleEast so close to each other, any country using nuclear weapons on a neighbour is committing semi-slow suicide as the winds will blow the radiation back to them.
Also to Pakistan,Afghanistan,India,even China.
(Do the dust storms of Beijing not cross the Pacific to California?)
Our pride has gotten us into these “stalemates”,
(”we don’t negotiate with terrorists”)
only humility can get us out realising that peace starts with your smile towards everyone ,especially to someone you don’t like.(mother Teresa)
If you want peace ,you talk to your enemies, not your friends. (Moshe Dayan, israeli general).
My only enemy looks at me every morning when I shave.
Everyone else is a brother or sister.
Just call me Joseph.
Greengal, man, are you kidding or just hopelessly naive? Ever hear of AIPAC? Also, try to start a conversation even marginally critical of Israel around–not just politicians–but anyone in education or the entertainment and media business to name a few and see how far you get. For Chrissakes, I’m a friggin bartender and you can’t mention Israel around anyone who owns a restaurant either! They know what side their bread is buttered. All discussion is taboo. Americans have not been subjected to the full impact of the Palestian experience in the media. At least we would understand why most of the world hates us.
sphne we all realized from another thread that Greengal is a troll whose goal is to divert the conversasion so that we all don’t discuss the article so please ignore her.
duchaspa
You are absolutely right. Any kind of nuclear weapon used on any country in the midEast will almost certainly blow back and kill those who detonated it because the countries are so small. So only the Bush administration can actually use nuclear weapons in the midEast without fear of self-contamination.
Still, America’s Nuclear Bunker Busters are lethal for millions.
simonhhh: now look what you’ve started pretty soon this site will be labelled “you know what”.;-)
sphne, too true, being labelled a “you know what” quickly shuts down any debate, in fact the comments here are the most discussion I have seen without someone piping in “you’re all ‘you know what’”.
Absolutely disgusting. I will never support any group that insists on having such a violent, xenophobic attitude.
“Most Israelis Support Using Nukes”
Those were the ones Hitler missed.
i listen to a late night talk show on the weekends. the host is a jew. anyone that brings up the israeli situation, is immediatly overidden, insinuated as antisemetic, and soon thereafter hustled off. on this issue, as well as a host of others, there is no intense discussions on msm. until these critical issues are tackled, and presented to the american people with an honest discourse, there will never be any progress. we can be thankful for common dreams, and a few other online forums. hopefully they will become the main sourse of honest discussion for the majority.
Israel was founded on terrorism and is maintained by terrorism. With the help of Jews around the world in places of influence they have used their position to further Israel’s power and influence at the host country’s expense. Europe and the USA are the major donors, look at the rhetoric coming out of France now Sarkosy is president who got elected because of the perceived muslim problem.
Look at Lieberman in the USA, could you imagine what the consequencies would have been had he become vice president.
Well, if that many have died that were connected in any manner to the “lost” nukes incident, something besides the Bush cartel stinks real bad. I would think the odds would be way over a million to one on that.
“I think it is not only the US government that has been funding Israel but also the Jewish community in the US has been sending money to Israel.”
No “think” about it. Most synagogues in my city periodically put up big banners in front of their sanctuary entrances appealing for donations to Israel.