No Future for Nuclear Energy
Here they go again. After thirty years without a firm order, the atomic power companies are pushing their radioactive, costly technology for a comeback on the backs of you the taxpayers.
The old argument in the Seventies was that nuclear powered electricity would reduce our dependence on foreign oil. With only three percent of our electricity coming from burning petroleum, the pro-nuke lobby is now jumping on the global warming bandwagon. Uranium, they argue, does not release greenhouse gases like coal or oil.
What nuclear lobbies ignore is all the coal and oil that needs to be burned to enrich uranium, to transport radioactive wastes with protective highway and rail convoys and provide security since they would be a priority target for sabotage.
Apart from that, let's start with the technological insanity of the nuclear fuel cycle-from uranium mines and their deadly tailings, to the refining and fabrication into fuel rods, to the multi-shielded dome-like nuclear plant, to the necessity for perfect operation of the facility, to the still unresolved problems of the location and containment of hot radioactive wastes and contaminated material for the next 200,000 years!
All this for one objective-to boil water into steam. A pretty complex chain of events in order to boil water. There are far better, cheaper ways to meet the electricity needs of today's generation without burdening future generations for centuries with the deadly waste products.
Back in the Seventies, before the public rose up and said no to nuclear power, helped by Wall Street's reluctance to finance these trouble-prone plants, the Atomic Energy Commission projected the construction of 1000 atomic power plants in the U.S. by the year 2000. There are today 103 plants.
Placing the predicted 100 plants up and down the California coastline would have been an act of peerless recklessness, especially given the earthquake faults.
Just this week, a magnitude 6.8 earthquake struck Kashiwazaki, Japan and disabled a gigantic nuclear power plant which the New York Times reported, "raised new concerns about the safety of the nation's accident-plagued nuclear industry." It turns out that this plant, owned by Tokyo Electric Power, may be sitting directly above an earthquake fault line.
Each day, reports show damage greater than believed the day before, including radiation leaks, damage to exhaust ducts, burst pipes and other "malfunctions" beyond the fires. Several hundred barrels of radioactive waste were toppled.
The problem with nuclear power is that it gets one bite of the apple.
Just one major meltdown could provoke a demand to close the industry down by overwhelming adverse public outrage. You see, way back in the Fifties and Sixties, the Atomic Energy Commission, a booster-regulatory agency for atomic power plants, estimated that an "area the size of Pennsylvania" would be contaminated in such a disaster.
Remember, Chernobyl in Ukraine is still surrounded by vacant towns and villages following the 1986 tragedy. Radioactivity found its way as far as sheep in England, nuts grown in Turkey and elsewhere.
Do you know any other industry producing electricity that has to have specific evacuation plans for miles around it, is inherently a national security risk, cannot be privately insured without Congress mandating severe limited liability in case of massive casualties and requires massive taxpayer subsidies?
A most concise, authoritative case against the electric atom was recently released titled "Why a Future for the Nuclear Industry is Risky" by a group of environmental health and social investment groups. (See www.cleanenergy.org)
In the introduction to the report, the case against nuclear energy was summarized this way: "Wind power and other renewable technologies, combined with energy efficiency, conservation and cogeneration can be much more cost effective and can be deployed much sooner than new nuclear power plants."
Yes indeed, efficiency or conservation, with a national mission, can cut in half the waste of energy, using currently available technology and know-how, before the first privately capitalized nuclear plant opens. One scientist once described the primary output of electric generating plants as "heating the heavens."
If this insensitive industry cannot be revived by Uncle Sam's tax treasury, Wall Street certainly has given no indication that private investment would take on the risk. Investment money is pouring presently into wind power, solar and other renewables and this is just the early springtime for these benign sources of energy.
The International Energy Agency sees a 25% cost reduction for wind power and a 50% cost reduction for solar photovoltaics from 2001 to 2020. Without Wall Street's private capital and with rising construction and operating costs in other countries, the prospect for nuclear power being competitive, even deducting decommissioning costs, and the many
millennia of waste storage costs, is not there.
Add a major accident and you'll see, in addition to casualties and contaminated land and property, every private investor running for cover while the bill is passed on to taxpayers.
Here is a suggestion to put the industry's propaganda to rest. Will any high nuclear industry executive debate physicist Amory Lovins at the National Press Club filled with electric company leaders? If so, please visit http://www.rmi.org and contact Mr. Lovins.
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134 Comments so far
Show AllI always wondered what you green around the gills libs talked about when it was "jist us chickens". so, pull your power meter outta the socket and put solar panels on your roof, then put up a couple windmills in your back yard, then wait while your local planing and zoning (which you created) show up and make you tear it all down. if ya wanna go back ta the dark ages, move ta the amazon, and stop the locals from plowin up the rain forest to grow corn for makin ethanol.
(hey I tryin ta be conseravitive, how'm I doin)
Bushwa Blues, I moved over to the other Nader article, and you have probably moved on as well. I don't think I was very clear above. I meant to say that in an election that was determined by 500 votes, many, many things could have changed the outcome. With the benefit of hindsight, I would have spent the months before the election in Florida, campaigning as if the whole world depended on it, and giving all of my money to Al Gore.
I am sure that voter fraud is rampant across party lines. I really wouldn't be objective if I accused Republicans of cheating the most. What I was trying to convey, is that voter fraud is business as usual. An honest tally could have saved the election, however corruption is deeply entrenched, hard to prove and difficult to prevent. It would have been really easy for Nader to just not run.
He knew he wasn't going to win.
He knew from which camp he would be siphoning votes.
God help him if he didn't know that Bush was going to be colossally worse than Al Gore.
He ran on the Green Party ticket. But the world is much, much browner as a result of his actions.
It really is interesting to look at the evidence of fraud, but what a messy business, trying to sort out the truth, trying to prove anything.
With Nader out of the race, it would have been a straightforward win. Sure he has the right to run. General Motors had the right send all of its electric cars to the landfill, and promote the Hummer instead. Monsanto has the right to splice strawberries with fish genes and Exxon Mobil has the right to pay scientists to write articles that shed doubt on global warming. I expect this behavior from bad corporations, I don't expect it from a champion of liberal causes.
Thanks for the vote of confidence re my "research." You're too kind, though it might not be absolutely lousy for casual. And thanks for stimulating my interest in all this once again.
It appears I was wrong about the 60,000. That was total. Not a separate instance. But still exceeds your 47% that Nader diverted.
"While only 11% of Florida voters, African-Americans contributed 54% of the 180,000 spoiled votes. Since 87% of African-Americans in Florida vs. 45% of whites voted for Gore over Bush, these ballots alone likely represent a Gore advantage of approximately 60,000 votes - more than 1% of the statewide total."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/011805Y.shtml
Do you know of evidence that the Greens perpetrated any vote fraud? There's famous stuff in Chicago in the past re Dems...and more items I presume if you read up. However, look at the scale involved in FL/2000...
"Harris writes that the hacked documents expose how the mainstream media reversed their call projecting Al Gore as winner of Florida after someone 'subtracted 16,022 votes from Al Gore, and in still some undefined way, added 4000 erroneous votes to George W. Bush.'"
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
How do we know Nader didn't hold back or didn't pull punches?
Nader tried to call attention to much vaster corruption than the Gore voters thought it prudent to tackle...if they understood or acknowledged it at all. The election in FL proved Nader's point. On many issues I say gauge what'll fly carefully; but the quantum step-up in this case re vote fraud points directly to the entire insidious paradigm Nader has been trying to bring to light all along.
Friday night on NOW was wild..."voter caging." The Pubs sent registered college students letters in Aug (to their fall/spring addresses near school). The directive was to challenge their voting status if the letters were returned! Holy cow. Check pbs.org/now
Haven't read headline article here today yet.
You have certainly researched your point, Bushwa Blues. The articles are interesting, but I suspect that both sides (Democrats and Republicans) engage in corrupt activities and voter fraud to thte extent they believe they can get away with. I don't expect the Republicans to try and ensure a fair count. However, I expect more from a green party candidate. Many things could have changed an election this close; yet if Mr. Nader really stood for what he purports to stand for, he would not have taken such a chance. I really hold against him the statement that Gore and Bush are the same. If he truly believes that he's not very smart.
js, click on the numbers. They lead to separate articles, and if I'm not mistaken the sets of 20,000 and 60,000 are bundles of votes that were disappeared by separate intances of tallying problems. If I'm not mistaken the numbers of votes disappeared in each case (due to separate problems) were actually greater than the 20K and 60K cited; but these numbers I believe represent what were statistically projected as Gore's share in each of these problem instances.
You're not mentioning these trashed votes which exceed the total you say Nader siphoned off. According to you Nader gets all the blame. Doesn't seem fair.
Here is a blast from the past--a USA today article before the 2000 election.:
" Ralph Nader defiantly refused Sunday to quit the presidential race, despite increased calls from leading Democrats and liberal activists for him to step aside. They fear he could cost Vice President Gore the election.
With polls showing that Nader could swing as many as eight states from Gore to Bush, the consumer activist and Green Party candidate continued to say he's not concerned about playing the spoiler.
''If he (Gore) cannot defeat the bumbling Texas governor with that horrific record, what good is he?'' Nader said on ABC's This Week. ''It should be a slam dunk.'' "
This statement from Mr. Nader perplexes me. Al Gore COULD have won if Nader had stayed out of the race. Nader, however, could not have won, so "What good is he?" Nader clearly set the auto-pilot to ego mode.
Please, good people, do not waste your votes. The world does not have time for symbolic protests.
Bushwa Blues, sorry but I don't know you mean by 20,000 + 60,000.
I should have added that according to Florida exit poles, 21% of Nader voters would have voted for Bush, as opposed to 47% that would have voted for Gore.
Some Nader defenders like to say that if Gore had won his home state, he would not have needed Florida. Hmmm. I'm pretty sure Nader didn't win his home state, either.
20,000 + 60,000
That exceeds the 47%.
Correct me if I'm wrong...am I counting the Volucia County rip off twice?
"If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a 'scrub list' of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris." Greg Palast, see 3rd article
http://www.gregpalast.com/2000
Re the margin of 500...nationally the chances of a race this close...is it one in 10,000? I can't remember.
Al Gore lost Florida by about 500 votes. Nader received 97,000 votes in Florida. 47% of Nader voters would have otherwise voted for Gore according to exit polls. That is the only math I need.
If you count the votes wasted according to Palast...can you still blame Nader?
Anyway, there are a number of allegations floating about which I suspect you may be obliged to weigh/give-account-of with regard to all this.
Like this article...
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/robert_f_kennedy_jr__will_the_next_election_be_hac...
It's like Berry said. How can you control it?
Then again...in some significant domains I'm tempted now to think there's a way; but I'm not sure some industry parties want us to think there's a way. Hey, just in case I crash...ask Richard Stallman about it at stallman.org
Operating systems were free not to long ago in Vietnam...Linux. They say France's net is faster and better.
Chartreuse Muse wrote:
"Was there ever really a "liberal vote" to split?"
I don't disagree with anything you have written on this page. You are certainly ideologically correct. However, the reality of the 2000 election is that Mr. Nader brought us George Bush instead of Al Gore (I am obviously a big fan of Al Gore). That was perhaps as big of a tipping point for the world as when the geniuses (not being sarcastic here) of the early twentieth century learned how to split the atom. Al Gore and George Bush are a world apart form each other. Saving the environment is not easy and is perhaps no longer possible, but with 8 years of Al Gore instead of George Bush, we would be looking at a lot better chance than we are faced with now. Mr. Nader did this, and he knew he what would happen. He tried to justify himself by insulting Al Gore. Just as Pat Buchanan could enter the race and be the inadvertent champion for the left-wing, Mr. Nader was the inadverdent champion for the right-wing. Who cheered his entrance into the election?
Exxon Mobile, the Tennessee Valley Authority, Peabody Energy, General Motors and George Bush.
[caps for emphasis only, not shouting]
Yeah, new hi-tech comes on in giant waves. I think the phrase from economics was that these waves are "tranformative missions." Cars, televisions. Now computers and I-Pods. As far as I can tell, to get them asap falls under what Rene Girard calls "mimetic rivalry." Then you have the associated behavior. Flaunting the stuff. Smashing into others, annoying others, and gumming up the works. I think under "appropriate technology" stuff should be serviceable, but a lot of ours isn't.
When dollar store stuff is what it takes to create viable stock (on the stock market) something's wrong. Focusing on energy itself is only part of the solution. The economy has to be completely re-fashioned. Work has to be worth something and valuable to the whole. Dole on the tube heming and hawing about the V.A. when the problem is clearly...STAFF. And the insane philosophy doctrine re minimizing staff everywhere while maximizing the PORK dough you hand over to entities like Haliburton. It's such a neat idea. It's such a given. It's such a staple of pap. No. It's foolishness. People have to do things that count. What is an enterprise today? Some guy who wangles amidst regulations, attempting to stuff as many folks as possible into call centers where they can't pee and have to take crap all day long and push processed calls up to 400 with lousy order placing software. Yeah, THAT's insane. And "chicken place" too. Everywhere you look, they get off by sending us to places where you're in a pressure cooker. All these places are every bit as insane as trying to live with DU dust or spread it around where you plan to drill for oil (just not as pervasively as dangerous).
As far as the tech of the "communications revolution" itself goes, Wendell Berry has pointed out that it has enabled the very possiblity of terror today as we know it. I don't really know if there's anyway out. For instance, is typing here by me justified? If we had municipal Y-Fi I could download all of Commondreams everyday in about a minute...without sitting at a desk...without all these contraptions, right? So, downloading might be all I'd need. For the personal PC you could (4 many models) just eliminate the large keybd for interaction etc.
At any rate, when you get back to the can't-control aspect (as Berry pointed out)...there's also the factor, of course, of what you can control. The "swamp" is a free booters paradise. Cleaning it up and transparency...is what matters to me when I think about this stuff. Pay attention to this factor alone, and the big useless pork war contracts...will be obviated.
Fusion is too far off and creation of all the ancillary paraphrenalia would help burn up the planet probably just as fast as continuing to roll out hummers. Meanwhile things like ye olde CCC are proven alternatives...and CITA jobs for instance. In sum IMO...you can't just debate energy...come up with a novel source...AND APPEND IT TO THE BUSINESS AS USUAL ECONOMY.
Was there ever really a "liberal vote" to split, and will splitting atoms end up being the real spoiler?
Look around you- how many energy uses are truly NEEDS?
We have expanded our use of energy exponentially to include a plethora of silliness.
Everything from battery-powered flashing lights in our toddlers shoes to electric nosehair clippers, heated car seats, sex toys, excessively lighted work spaces and public buildings, neon signs, battery powered handheld plastic fans from the dollar store that break in a day, kids text-messaging, "what r u doin?," - "nothin, what r u doing?"
The point is, conservation could really pare down our power needs to the point where we could truly consider renewables, if we aren't past the point where we're just too damned lazy and far to spoiled to even consider what we really need and what is just fat.
Like our personal weights, our energy weights are morbidly obese and it's going to take a Herculean effort to reverse the trend.
http://www.endCapitalism.July.24th.2007.11:30.am.com/is/another/wackjob/idiot.html/
Thanks long url posters for fscking up this page. What a bunch of Wintards. In future, use this ...
http://tinyurl.com/create.php
... and smarten up.
To Webmaster: maybe it's time to use a different online editor that prevents this type of thing? Why would you use flash anyways for a bloody editor?
To Sh@dow:
You said "Yes, I did and added several more reasons.". Actually you have never addressed even a single proposal I made, let alone several. You have avoided all my proposals and the only thing you have said was to suddenly go off the deep end and call me evil for advocating family planning rather than war , famine and disease which are the consequences of doing nothing. Again , if you don't like family planning do you have any other alternative to propose ? What about the many other proposals I made and you never addressed, if you think they are wrong then explain why they are wrong and propose alternatives.
Kind regards
hopeforthefuture
P.S. You've kept hiding from the issues right up till now so I don't think it likely that you will suddenly talk about solutions. So in case you don't answer this post I again hope you are wrong so that you , me and everyone else will have a world worth living in. I wish you a happy life !!
"""hopeforthefuture July 24th, 2007 4:30 am
To Sh@dow:
You still have not said what exactly you disagree with me about. What , precisely , have I said that , according to you, is incorrect? When will you stop running away from reading the links I posted ?"""
Yes, I did and added several more reasons. When will you stop BSing yourself? Except to say that there is no longterm future for nuclear energy while there will clearly be a short term use for it. Feel free to have the last word and enjoy those nanotubes.
To Sh@dow:
You said "I rooted you out agent provocateur and it is plain to see what you want. You go on about how I should join.". Join ? Join what ? What organization have I even mentioned that you could join or not join (other than being a rational human being)? You're not making any sense and you haven't for a long while.
You said "Yes I selectively quoted you. You maid the claim that the population is to large and went on to state what needs to be done. That makes you evil!". I made no claim that the population is too large, I did much more than that. I PROVED that any population is limited by the finite physical resources available. Look up the exponential population growth equation and put it into any spreadsheet program (like Excel or Quatro pro, etc.) input the world's current population and the current rate of growth and see how long it takes for the human biomass to equal the mass of the planet. Think about that, for the human biomass to equal the mass of the planet means that all the water in the oceans and all the air in the world and all the rock and metal that forms the crust of our planet would have to be transformed into human flesh and bones. Not only is this impossible because all worldwide ecosystems would collapse long before the planet disappears but more than that not all the chemical elements that form our planet are part of our biochemistry. Your body does not use chemical elements such as platinum, iridium , osmium, mercury, arsenic, praseodymium, lanthanum, ytrium and so many others. Would you then use nucleartransmutation to transform these chemical elements into other elements ? Just for fun use the speadsheet to calculate how much more time it would take for the human biomass to equal the mass of the observable Universe (all the stars and nebulae and dust clouds in the Universe disappearing so that they can become human biomass). You again descend to the level of namecalling and now call me evil, for what exactly ? Since you obviously think I am wrong then I ask you (yet again) to grace me with your words of wisdom, you tell me what would be your solutions to the world's problems. I have offered solutions and have explained why they are the right thing to do. When, if ever, are you going to offer solutions ?
You still have not said what exactly you disagree with me about. What , precisely , have I said that , according to you, is incorrect? When will you stop running away from reading the links I posted ?
The world can have a good future if we make it so by working together, using our intelligence and acting in good faith. I'm willing to do so, are you ?
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 9:54 pm
I rooted you out agent provocateur and it is plain to see what you want. You go on about how I should join. Yes I selectively quoted you. You maid the claim that the population is to large and went on to state what needs to be done. That makes you evil!
To Sh@dow:
Ah, ah ,ah. You are using selective quoting to deceive others. You're copying Fox News now. You said "There is nothing controversial about this." when the full quote is "Is the fact that the Earth cannot support an infinite population something new for you ? The Earth is finite therefore there cannot be an infinite amount of water or food or air or anything else. There is nothing controversial about this. It is obvious.". What exactly do you disagree with me on this statement ? Are you saying that the Earth is infinite and has infinite resources ? What exactly are you saying ?
You said "There is nothing controversial about limiting parents to one child? Nothing at all? I think I will ask the posters:If you and your wife have a child and are forced to be sterilized as a result would that at least be controversial to you?". Firstof all I said two babies and then adopt not just one baby. In addition since you claim to know more than me and have called me an idiot so many times I await your words of wisdom: tell me what is your alternative ?
And again, you never seem to answer, what exactly do you disagree with me about?
To Sh@dow:
Temper, temper. You have now reached the point of self deception claiming you are not namecalling when that is exactly what you are doing.
You said "So far in two of your posts you have advocated something known as eugenics or neo-eugenics. You insist that the population needs to be managed. The Chinese do this and their country is also at the point of revolt. When I posted "hopeforthefuture = Eugenics" it was to let everyone here know your name! You are what I thought you were. You keep on going post after post and it comes down to culling population.". Actually I have talked about a great variety of things (green energy, sustainable agriculture, etc.) and you have run away from all the questions I have made to you. You have made not a single statement with any substance to it and you have stated that you have not and will not read the links I posted. The same links you claim not to agree with. Are you psychic that you are able to disagree with something you have not even read ? I only talked about population when you brought it up with your "culling". Since you appear to also disagree with family planning to slowly reduce population to sustainable levels then what if anything do you propose (other than allowing the world population to cause the collapse of all worldwide ecosystems by doing nothing) ? As I said in my previous post "If you are advocating doing nothing then you are advocating the total collapse of all worldwide ecosystems and this would lead to the complete extinction of the human race. If anything that makes you theeugenicist not me.".
You said "So in summery you are into eugenics and you are an idiot that posts BS posts". And yet my posts are so idiotic that they make reference to links you are afraid to read. Again, I'll be glad to help you with anything you find hard to understand.
What exactly do you disagree with me about?
"hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 9:07 pm
To Sh@dow:
There is nothing controversial about this."
There is nothing controversial about limiting parents to one child? Nothing at all? I think I will ask the posters:
If you and your wife have a child and are forced to be sterilized as a result would that at least be controversial to you?
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 9:07 pm
I will give you an example of name calling. "Hey Mr X you are a bla bla bla.
Now hopeforthefuture many of your posts and comments are in fact idiotic and you make idiotic posts often enough that I developed the opinion that you are an idiot as well. That is not an attack on my part since I qualified my opinion and I also explained that it was my opinion.
So far in two of your posts you have advocated something known as eugenics or neo-eugenics. You insist that the population needs to be managed. The Chinese do this and their country is also at the point of revolt. When I posted "hopeforthefuture = Eugenics" it was to let everyone here know your name! You are what I thought you were. You keep on going post after post and it comes down to culling population.
So in summery you are into eugenics and you are an idiot that posts BS posts and is here to be an agent provocateur. Now if I was calling you names it would be baseless but again I have qualified my opinions. Both sides are playing the middle. You and the greens on the one and bush and the military on the other.
To Sh@dow:
I just saw you latest post where you claim "hopeforthefuture = Eugenics". This is yet more namecalling on your part. Is there nothing of substance you are capable of talking about ? Read what I just posted especially this part: "Is the fact that the Earth cannot support an infinite population something new for you ? The Earth is finite therefore there cannot be an infinite amount of water or food or air or anything else. There is nothing controversial about this. It is obvious. There is an old essay written by the great science writer Isaac Asimov where he used the same exponential equation used by experts in population studies to make future population predictions. He found that , assuming a constant rate of growth equal to the rate of growth at the time of the essay, in just a few thousand years the amount of human biomass would equal the total mass of our planet and a few millenia after that (less than 10,000 years which is not much more than the recorded history of modern humans) the human biomass would equal the mass of the entire Universe. He did this to underscore that no population can grow indefinitely. All growth must reach physical limits and then stabilize or the system collapses.".
Also pay attention to this part : "Educating people to have no more than two babies per family (if more than two are desired they should adopt) is entirely different from what you are calling culling. It is simply human beings demonstrating that they are capable of rational thought and avoiding a disaster that is entirely predictable. Also this slow population reduction coupled with green technologies would AVOID wars, violenceand shortages. Yet again I say that your despair is not a solution. Become part of the solution."
If you are advocating doing nothing then you are advocating the total collapse of all worldwide ecosystems and this would lead to the complete extinction of the human race. If anything that makes you theeugenicist not me.
Stop being the problem. Become part of the solution.
To Sh@dow:
You said "You said it all there. Solar, alternatives, batteries, sustainable farming, etc. rely on population reduction.". What is your point ? Is the fact that the Earth cannot support an infinite population something new for you ? The Earth is finite therefore there cannot be an infinite amount of water or food or air or anything else. There is nothing controversial about this. It is obvious. There is an old essay written by the great science writer Isaac Asimov where he used the same exponential equation used by experts in population studies to make future population predictions. He found that , assuming a constant rate of growth equal to the rate of growth at the time of the essay, in just a few thousand years the amount of human biomass would equal the total mass of our planet and a few millenia after that (less than 10,000 years which is not much more than the recorded history of modern humans) the human biomass would equal the mass of the entire Universe. He did this to underscore that no population can grow indefinitely. All growth must reach physical limits and then stabilize or the system collapses.
You said "I'm not reading your links and I'm just skimming through your posts and find them idiotic.". More namecalling. And if you find my posts idiotic then why are you afraid of reading the papers found at the links ? Could it be you think you may not understand them ? Be assured that the technical level is not too high. Read the links and I'll be happy to help you with anything you have trouble with.
You said "Since we are culling population, using demand destruction, taxation, inflation, war, violence, shortages, etc. economic collapse will drive us down to a lower level of available energy. Our lives will become that of this graph…". Educating people to have no more than two babies per family (if more than two are desired they should adopt) is entirely different from what you are calling culling. It is simply human beings demonstrating that they are capable of rational thought and avoiding a disaster that is entirely predictable. Also this slow population reduction coupled with green technologies would AVOID wars, violenceand shortages. Yet again I say that your despair is not a solution. Become part of the solution.
Kind regards
hopeforthefuture
P.S. I saw the sites you posted and they take things that are real and exagerate beyond what is reasonable. Any one nuclearplantdisaster could never destroy the world. If a nuclearpower unit were to disintegrate during reentry to the atmosphere that could indeed cause masscasualties but it has not happened yet with a truly large amount of hotmaterial and lots of people have been calling for years to prohibit these power sources in satellites. The other site assumes that people will do nothing to avoid hitting the physical limits of the ecosystems that sustain us. If people are led by the despair you are spreading they indeed will do nothing. I'm hoping that people are better than that. Use your minds people !!
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 7:44 pm
hopeforthefuture = Eugenics
"hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 7:44 pm
slowly reduce the world population to no more than 2 billion people for it to be sustainable
must be made out of something. With the Earth's overpopulation the right kind of technology becomes"
So the world is over populated and down to the core you realize that population reduction will effectively address the issue.
You said it all there. Solar, alternatives, batteries, sustainable farming, etc. rely on population reduction.
I'm not reading your links and I'm just skimming through your posts and find them idiotic. Since we are culling population, using demand destruction, taxation, inflation, war, violence, shortages, etc. economic collapse will drive us down to a lower level of available energy. Our lives will become that of this graph...
http://www.dieoff.org/Olduvai.gif
Are you ten years old? LOL AhHAahahahahaha
To Sh@dow:
You said "Look if there was enough food the prices would be going down and less people would starve each day.". I never said anything about there being enough food. Reread what I said about the need to stabilize and slowly reduce the world population to no more than 2 billion people for it to be sustainable. I did mention (several times) ways agriculture can be made sustainable (see Wes Jackson research and others). And the price of food is being affected by other factors than mere food production limitations. The push toward biofuels is a huge mistake since land used for ethanol production is land not available for food production and this will certainly raise food prices. Brazil is heavily into ethanol and this is making it harder for the poor (a majority in Brazil) to afford food. The same phenomenon is starting to raise food prices in the US.
You said "Alternatives will only amount to a fraction of the energy needed.". This is merely you repeating something you have already said with no proof to back it up. Again, read the second link I posted and then get back to me on this and we can talk then.
You said "Battery equivalents all start from mines.". Any technology must be made out of something. With the Earth's overpopulation the right kind of technology becomes ever more vital. What is your point anyway ?
You said "Now you mention electricity and then make smart assed comments about what I may or may not have knowledge of.". If you have the knowledge to understand what is at the links i posted then READ THE LINKS and then talk to me.
You said "If you don't think I know about the subjects at hand then what is your goal to convert me or baffle me with your BS? I'm not reading your links since I am already up to speed on your BS and FUD.". Let's see, you're now using words like BS and FUD while I simply said you are acting like a troll. Who's namecalling now ? And if you can understand the papers at the links then read them and prove me wrong.
You said "You have nothing FIRST na na na na". Are you ten years old ?
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 6:17 pm
Here hopeforthefuture enjoy the ride!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN8nv4tVFuA&mode=related&search=
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 6:17 pm
Look if there was enough food the prices would be going down and less people would starve each day. Alternatives will only amount to a fraction of the energy needed. Battery equivalents all start from mines. Now you mention electricity and then make smart assed comments about what I may or may not have knowledge of. If you don't think I know about the subjects at hand then what is your goal to convert me or baffle me with your BS? I'm not reading your links since I am already up to speed on your BS and FUD.
http://dieoff.org/index.html
http://www.davistownmuseum.org/cbm/index.html
You have nothing FIRST na na na na
To Sh@dow:
You said "Alternatives will account for a fraction of our energy.". Read the first link I posted and there is the answer. Solar energy is the only energy source (other than nuclearfission) that can provide power at the level of terawatts (do you even know what a terawatt is ?). We already have thesolutions with regard to solar energy. We have no need of new hyper efficient solar cells. The old simple low efficiency ones can do the job in a cost effective way just by mass producing them. READ THE LINK.
You said "Ultra capacitors are not energy sources.". I never said they were energy sources. I specifically referred to them as energy storage devices. Read the posts you are deriding.
You said "There is not enough food as it is and there will be less and less.". Read up on Wes Jackson and others who are working on sustainable agriculture. World population must indeed be stabilized and then slowly reduced to no more than 2 billion. I have also writte about this in other articles. Despair is not a solution.
You said "The death of the bees is depleting food and driving up costs now.". This is true and important and i have already answered this several times in this thread. Reread what I wrote about alternative insect pollinators.
You said "Edwin Howard Armstrong is dead. Robert Hutchings Goddard is dead too.". So what is your point ? Their lives are a testament to showing people like you that they were wrong when they said "X thing is impossible". They proved them wrong.
You said "Carbon nanotubes do not burn and are unedible!". When did I say they were edible ? Reread my post about Wes Jackson regarding sustainable food production.
You said "I can disagree with you at any point and disagree that you have actually supplied any useful information. You have not supplied any new or useful information and no interweb links can change that.". Then prove me wrong by actually reading the two links I supplied and tell me what , specifically, do you disagree with.
You've got nothing.
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 5:40 pm
Here...
Alternatives will account for a fraction of our energy. There is not enough food as it is and there will be less and less. Ultra capacitors are not energy sources. The death of the bees is depleting food and driving up costs now. Edwin Howard Armstrong is dead. Robert Hutchings Goddard is dead too. Carbon nanotubes do not burn and are unedible!
I can disagree with you at any point and disagree that you have actually supplied any useful information. You have not supplied any new or useful information and no interweb links can change that.
Here is the image of the day and red is natural gas, the greenish color is oil and the blue color is water. This is THE MUTHA OF PROBLEMS...
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/ain_data_linux.png
Correction (one and only)..
I was wrong..
There are 2 fluent naysayers on this thread
Evelyn Smith Bsc PhD and Shhhh..(@)..Dow.. (????? KK)
"if you have technology that could save the world or eliminate the need for nuclear and fossil fuel then go on ad implement it."
Wilbur.."Right, that's the first flight.. Now what??"
Orville."Well, if we wait 75 years we can take the morning shuttle to New York to the Patent Office.."
Progress progresses in small progressive steps...
But why do I bother, I don't think "It who is Shhh.." is past year 9 at High School..
To Sh@dow:
So you say that "Not only do I have the right to disagree with you but I actually disagree with you."
Exactly about what do you disagree with me ? The links to solar energy ? Sustainable agriculture ? Ultracapacitors ? Alternative Pollinators ? Edwin Howard Armstrong ? Robert Hutchings Goddard ? Carbon nanotubes ? Still you have said nothing of substance. If you haven't even read the links I posted how can you disagree with them ?
You also said "Please for another time if you have technology that could save the world or eliminate the need for nuclear and fossil fuel then go on ad implement it.". Read the second link I posted and there is the answer. You would know this if you had bothered to read it.
You are the one who's got no game. Read, learn and then if you were to actually want to do something constructive then offer solutions.
"hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 5:01 pm
To the troll who calls himself Sh@dow:
Again you do not address anything of substance that I said. The links to solar energy ? Sustainable agriculture ? Ultracapacitors ? Alternative Pollinators ? Edwin Howard Armstrong ? Robert Hutchings Goddard ? Carbon nanotubes are funny to you ?"
What more do I have to say your future is the same as the 1000s of Reindeer that died on St. Matthew Island. Till then maybe you can eat the nanotubes. The most funny thing about you is that you said, "To the troll who calls himself Sh@dow" and what that tells me is that you are resorting to name calling and demonstrating your immaturity. There are people who I believe and who I agree with and you are not one of them. Not only do I have the right to disagree with you but I actually disagree with you. Please for another time if you have technology that could save the world or eliminate the need for nuclear and fossil fuel then go on ad implement it.
You can't since you have no game. Your full of hot air and even that is debatable.
To the troll who calls himself Sh@dow:
Again you do not address anything of substance that I said. The links to solar energy ? Sustainable agriculture ? Ultracapacitors ? Alternative Pollinators ? Edwin Howard Armstrong ? Robert Hutchings Goddard ? Carbon nanotubes are funny to you ? They were discovered in 1991 (actually two russianscientists detected them as far back as 1952) and at least by some calculations, have the tensile strength to form a cable long enough and light enough to support its own weight from sea level to geostationary orbit. A few years ago a professor of the Renseelaer Polytechnic Institute found a way to make single walled molecular carbon nanotubes 10 inches long and aligned linearly. Current research is being done on devising a manufacture technique for any arbitrary length. People like you also believed it was impossible to make transoceanic communication cables until they were done. Now they are very silent about it. All of these researchers are above you because they TRY. You will never do that. You prefer acting like a child example: "Ahahahahahahaha LOLOLOLOLOL Whhhaaaaaaaa woooooo.". Any large complex research takes a lot of money and people, no one person can do it. Sites like Commondreams serve precisely to get people together to do what companies in their selfish self interest will never do. Those people who join together to accomplish great things are all heroes.
What are you ?
If mockery is all there is to you how about if you read the solar energy links I posted ? Do you also want to claim that they too are wrong ?
Look up information about the honeybee and how , as I said ,it is not native to the Americas and still the ecosystems of the Americas survived quite well without honeybees for millions of years. Do you have any solutions to offer ? I offered mine.
If you have the millions of dollars needed to complete the research projects I have mentioned then you become a hero and sponsor that research. Otherwise don't disdain others attempts to get people together to pool their resources (financial, intellectual and otherwise) and get things done.
Become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
To Sh@dow:
Your name seems to describe you very well. Not only do you try to stop others from improving things you don't even bother to read what someone writes to you and yet repeat your claim that someone else is full of hot air. Hannity and O'Reilly do the same thing.
You also claim I have nothing to show yet you display nothing but nihility. Is there anything within you of value ? Is there nothing else within you than a desperate desire to stop others from doing good and disdaining things you know nothing about ? Have you even bothered to read the links I sent ? I doubt it since you gave very fast responses in too short a time for you to actually have read those links. You simply gave a snap answer that addressed none of the points I mentioned about solar energy or Wes Jackson's work in sustainable agriculture but simply kept harping about the bees. Did you even read about what I said about alternative pollinator insects ?
Spewing even more disdain (it seems to be the only thing within you) you mock the idea of a space elevator and yet I doubt you know anything about it or the challenges involved. A space elevator may or may not be possible but you (as in all things) try to stop people from even trying through nihilism and mockery. How about if you read about Edwin Howard Armstrong the inventor of frequency modulation and how no one believed it would work until he (with his own money) built an FM station on his own and thus today's radio and TV were born. Actually learn something and read about Robert Hutchings Goddard (father of rocket science) who in 1920 claimed that rockets could be used for travel in outer space and was mocked in a front page story by the New York Times who claimed in an unsigned editorial that Goddard "only seems to lack the knowledge ladled out daily in high schools.". The New York Times did not admit its mistake until 1969 (just after the launch of the Apollo 11 that reached the Moon) titled "A Correction," summarizing its 1920 editorial mocking Goddard, and concluding: "Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th century and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere. The Times regrets the error." It only took them 49 years to admit they were wrong. These people are far greater than you will ever be and were mocked by people like you. Even those who try to do something and fail are far greater than you because they tried. That seems to be the one thing you will not do and the one thing you seem to want to stop everyone else from doing.
Taking your own words, what have YOU to show for yourself ?
You are a troll and your nickname describes you well. I tried to engage you in conversation and hopefully we could have learned from each other. I expect better from people in a site like Commondreams. You seem to be an exception and a disappointment. What a waste.
Still I wish you a happy life. Everything you said here was doom and gloom so if you're wrong the world will become a better place. It will be far better for the world for you to be proven wrong. Maybe someday you will become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Kind regards
hopeforthefuture
"hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 3:45 pm
To Sh@dow:
Your name seems to describe you very well. Not only do you try to stop others from improving things you don't even bother to read what someone writes to you and yet repeat your claim that someone else is full of hot air. Hannity and O'Reilly do the same thing."
There you said it all! "Not only do you try to stop others from " is what you said LOL These are words and the sticks and stones must be of your own production. You stop you. I in fact said, "If anything you posted can help civilization than go on and get it done. I don't tell you what to talk about so don't tell me what to talk about and I can post here or at other sites if I choose to and frankly you are full of hot air. If you can fix the issues like the death of the bees I will kiss your buttocks. Go on and show us all of these gadgets and techno fixes that will revolutionize the closing industrial age!"
So go on and do it to it! Get it done and be a hero. Put your money where your mouth is.
"Nano Tubes" Ahahahahahahaha LOLOLOLOLOL Whhhaaaaaaaa woooooo.
"hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 2:05 pm
To Sh@dow:
You claim that "I am full of hot air" with no knowledge of me or what I work in. It turns out I am an engineer and my field of work includes renewable energy so I do indeed try to do my part to implement solutions to the problems we have. Just as you don't know me I don't know you so you kissing my buttocks or not is not really relevant for me."
You typed all of that out just for me and I stopped reading around your buttocks. I don't need to know what you do I just know that for all of your typing you have nothing to show. You are full of hot air in reality and figuratively.
"Space elevators" ahahahahahahahahahahaha wawawawawawawa HAHAHAHAHA OMG LOL Sorry but that was almost as good as Abbot & Costello
To Sh@dow:
You claim that "I am full of hot air" with no knowledge of me or what I work in. It turns out I am an engineer and my field of work includes renewable energy so I do indeed try to do my part to implement solutions to the problems we have. Just as you don't know me I don't know you so you kissing my buttocks or not is not really relevant for me. As I told you in my previous post honeybees are a recent arrival to the Americas (just a few centuries ago brought by the Europeans) so for many millions of years the ecosystems of America functioned quite well with no honeybees. Honeybees are a very important species and we must do all we can to save it but it is not the only option and we must look at other insect pollinators. As I said biodiversity is most certainly a virtue.
You also said "Go on and show us all of these gadgets and techno fixes that will revolutionize the closing industrial age!" but no one is an expert at everything. Laser propulsion requires expertise in high power lasers, a space elevator requires great expertise in materials science (particularly carbon nanotubes). I do my part within my field to try to make things better and I post about many things that others can implement. Posting about these things makes people think and maybe someone who reads Commondreams will implement some of these things. This makes a positive contribution.
What does not make sense is to post that the world is coming to an end and that no solution will ever be found and that we will become extinct. Believe me that I too sometimes feel depressed when I see the things that are happening in the world but then I realize that brooding about it does nothing to solve it. If you were to post to point out the problems that would be fine, muckraking journalism is something we sorely need and a great and noble tradition. But you go beyond pointing out the problems and say that there are no solutions. In doing so others may feel inclined not to try to improve things and that is not a good thing.
Believe me Sh@dow, beyond all the darkness there is light. The world can have all its many dictators and soulless megacorporations but we, as a species, still managed to produce people like FDR (won the Second World War and he and those who followed his legacy created the social safety net that republicans have not yet destroyed), Lincoln (ended slavery in America), Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and others (wrote the Constitution of America), Jean Henri Dunant (inspired the creation of the International Red Cross, the Geneva convention was based on his ideas, received the first Nobel Peace Prize), Florence Nightingale (saved uncountable lives by implementing sanitation in hospitals), Ghandi (established the concept of peaceful change for the betterment of humanity) Martin Luther King (civil rights leader) and others. Look at the bright side of things for it too , like the darkness , does exist. Let us all work together and do more than talk, let us all take bold action. The future is not written, we make it with our steps every day.
Kind regards
hopeforthefuture
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 12:36 pm
Look,
If anything you posted can help civilization than go on and get it done. I don't tell you what to talk about so don't tell me what to talk about and I can post here or at other sites if I choose to and frankly you are full of hot air. If you can fix the issues like the death of the bees I will kiss your buttocks. Go on and show us all of these gadgets and techno fixes that will revolutionize the closing industrial age!
grubstaker July 23rd, 2007 12:27 pm
Basically it doesn't matter what makes the car go. But if you think it matters go for it!
To Sh@dow:
I made no mention of any carbon tax so why do you bring that up ? Regarding the dollar (something else I did not mention) it can't die since its not alive in the first place. Currencies can collapse and have done so in the past many times, look up the German mark just after the first worldwar. When a currency collapses it is terrible for the country but any currency is just a symbol of value not a valuable thing in and of itself. Look at Germany now and you would never know that its currency collapsed within the lifetimes of some of the german people that are alive now and were alive then. I fervently hope we don't allow that to happen to America but even if we did it would not be the end of the world.
Regarding the honey bees (something else I did not mention, are you ever going to address any of the things I did mention ?) it is indeed a terrible thing and we must do all we can to find the cause and end it (no one is quite sure yet of the cause, could be a mite or pesticides or ultraviolet level or a combination of causes) but did you know that the honeybee is not indigenous to North America nor to South America ? It came from South East Asia. It was brought to the Americas by the Europeans and the Native Americans called them "the white man's flies". So the honeybee has inhabited the Americas for only a few centuries. Before the honeybee arrived plants in America were pollinated by certain native species of bees plus bumblebees and certain beetles. We must do all we can to save the honeybees and also to promote the alternative insect pollinators. It is never a good idea to depend on a single species of plant or animal for anything, biodiversity is most certainly a virtue.
Regarding the dustbowl we're not quite there yet at least in the midwest. The southwest cetainly is very dry and going to get much drier if global warming is not stopped. I have also posted previously about global warming and possible solutions. Besides massive use of solar energy (we could totally eliminate fossil fuels in less than thirty years if we really get our backs into it and get rid of political anchors like our current so called leaders). But stopping emissions of greenhouse gases would just take the foot off the gas pedal of the global warming engine. If we want to press the brake pedal on global warming we must regulate the amount of sumlight that reaches our planet. We could do so by placing a network of many large translucent membranes at the Lagrange point (a point of relative stability where the gravities of the Sun and Earth cancel each other out) that could slightly disperse the cone of light that reaches Earth and therefore reduce the emount of sunlight that reaches our planet by about 1 % (we would not notice any change in the intensity of sunlight but the energy budget of our planet would definitely notice it). This would be extremely expensive but no expense is too much if the survival of our planet is at stake. I have also mentioned possibilities to reduce these costs such as laser propulsion and space elevators to reduce the cost of getting mass out of the Earth's gravity well. These would actually be good ways to spend the money of NASA instead of stupid white elephants like the so called international space station or the Bushfantasy of basesin the Moon and Mars.
In any case Sh@dow if you are irrevocably convinced that everything is hopeless then why do you even bother posting at Commondreams (or any other site for that matter) ? You can huddle in the dark and await the end but I would much rather strive to make things better. Even if I fail the world is better off when someone at least makes the attempt to improve things. I think it was a poet (or writer ?) who said "Do not go gently into that good night, Fight, Fight, against the dying of the light !!).
Kind regards
hopeforthefuture
Sh@dow and others,
But wouldn't this be a much cheaper, cleaner, and overall better alternative than the current options we have for vehicles? Would this not help reduce emissions? Are there other alternatives or better alternatives besides riding bicycles and taking public transport (which could effectively also use this type of technology?). I remember the electric car was weirdly phased out some years ago after receiving applause.
grubstaker July 23rd, 2007 11:57 am
They run on compressed air and compressing air requires air compressors that use energy. These got their start as a solution for dock carts and fork trucks used in enclosed buildings that would otherwise use propane.
I have not seen this discussed much but I recently read an article where the Tata Truck company in India is going to buy these vehicles that run on air:
http://www.theaircar.com/
I am curious why more people are not discussing this and if anyone has actually seen this car or has any first hand experience of the pros and cons of the vehicle....it seems like a very positive step in the right direction.
It would be great if Ralph Nader had written the same article about the dangers of coal fired power plants. Nuclear power has not been responsible for one death in the United States. No other industry has been under such scrutiny yet done so little actual harm. Furthermore, in the United States, uranium is disposed of after one use although it still contains a great deal of its energy. This outdated, short-sighted policy exacerbates the disposal issues. Ralph Nader, however defends the policy. I suspect he knows better, yet has found that his statements garner a lot of easy support for him.
Ralph has found political safety by criticizing the nuclear industry because of the strong and immediate reaction by the public. He even resorts to the old Chernobyl standby, while knowing full well that Chernobyl was an archaic plant, forced to run beyond its design limits. That is akin to claiming that you might die from ammonia poisoning with today's refrigerators.
Another good article would be about the dangers of running against Al Gore, and splitting the liberal vote.
It's Dr KA-BOOOOOOM BUZZARD. The reaction lasted a fraction of a second when attempted at Princeton and they had to shut it down to prevent a disasterious meltdown. It is an unproven theory. Check the archives, we went over this extensively last week and you have all of the same websites we do. Buzzard and Kavorkian would make a good pair. Don't bother to ever reply, you will be talking to yourself.
hopeforthefuture July 23rd, 2007 10:59 am
Since you claim that it is possible and that you are an optimist then please by all means make it so number 2! It isn't pessimistic to point out that 2/3rds of the global honey bee population is DEAD or that the "dust bowl" is making a come back or that the dollar is dead or that... What it is is direct and honest. You can pollinate all of the flowers and fruits and vegetables since the bees can't because they are almost all dead! Your optimistic so just charge a carbon tax and you will solve all the ills! You can do it since there is always hopeforthefuture!
Search Google for "REINDEER OF ST. MATTHEW ISLAND" and face your denial.
therzal July 23rd, 2007 9:49 am
Are there any working fusion reactors generating more energy than it takes to start a fusion reaction? There are none so don't look too hard. So your point and your "BBBBAAARRRPPPPPPP… WRONG" comment seem to be ignorant and rude since fusion is at least 15 years away even though it has been 15 years away since the 40ies. I suggest that you lend a hand and help Dr. Robert Bussard and his crack team start generating power before we are killed in the cull!
To Kem:
Hi Kem, as always your posts are a welcome relief. You actually propose solutions instead of wailing that all is lost. This is the kind of things we need.
To Sh@dow:
Your posts on this article I think may well be the most pessimistic I have ever read ever. It is true that so many things in the world are wrong now but despair does not help to solve anything. Even worse than personal despair is spreading despair to others since then not only do you do nothing to help the situation but you paralyze other people into not doing anything either. I prefer to side with Franklin Delano Roosevelt when he said "There is nothing to fear but fear itself". We CAN work to save the world. Let us all work boldly and without fear AND WE WILL TRIUMPH !!
I have posted extensively in other articles on CommonDreams regarding energy. Recapping a small part of those posts:
1) Solar energy can indeed supply all the world's energy needs. In fact it is the only viable option other than massive use of nuclearenergy (but even then the supply of uranium in the world is finite and will run out in less than a century so solar energy is the only realistic option). See
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/38350.pdf
I also posted another link in other commondreams articles about how a single very large solar cell manufacturing plant would have enough economies of scale to bring the cost of a complete installed solar energy system (with inverters , voltage regulators and everything else and including installation cost) to $1 per watt or less . See the NREL 2004 Study of Potential Cost Reductions Resulting from Super-Large-Scale Manufacturing of PV Modules
http://www.nrel.gov/pv/thin_film/docs/nrel_hp_super_large_thin_film_manufacturing_oct04_short_form.doc
This plant would produce not the latest and most hyperefficient solar cells but instead would produce only low efficiency simple solar cells that already existed in the 1960's. It would simply make them cheaper by mass production.
2) Look up the work being made by Dr. Wes Jackson of the Land Institute in Kansas (as well as other research institutions) toward abolishing the plow and in doing so creating a form of agriculture that is actually sustainable. The grain would be planted once and never again. It's roots would always remain in the soil and therfore no topsoil would be lost to erosion and in fact topsoil would be created. This form of farming would consume far les energy and the energy it needs would come from the Sun (including the energy needed to power the machines needed for harvesting). It would not be a monoculture of a single plant but would instead include many other plants such as certain types of flowers that would fix atmospheric nitrogen and convert it into fertilizer so the farm would need no nitrogen fertilizer (perhaps only phosphorus and some trace elements would need to be added). In essence, the original praire ecosystem found in the American Midwest would be recreated in a way that still would supply the food we need.
3) Regarding the storage of solar energy I have also posted about fuel cells and, in particular, about ultracapacitors. A capacitor is a very simple way to store energy and would not need the toxic heavy elements or corrosive acids found in batteries. It would also be, if properly designed, pretty much eternal since it would not need replacement hardly ever. An ultracapacitor is simply a far more powerful form of ordinary capacitors.
You are right about the terrible so called leaders we have today but we can make better choices in the future and despair is not the path to a good future. Again I say (as FDR did) "There is nothing to fear but fear itself".
kind regards
hopeforthefuture
Evelyn Smith BSc, PhD
BBBBAAARRRPPPPPPP... WRONG.. Before their last test rig blew up, (it shorted out ) they achieved what they believe to be a sustained fusion. So what?? Every development starts with an idea and small steps. What interests me is how YOU are so incredibly negative.. We would still be living in caves and eating raw rabbit if his ancestors had listened to yours (How DID they survive??)..
Please..
1) Explain your conclusions. Voluminous references would be interesting.
2) Describe your own experience within this exotic branch of nuclear physics.
Because Bussard's theory___ is an unproven theory.
No Future for Nuclear (FISSION) Energy (Sorry, but Ralph is not right on this one..) Again the talk of Nukular Energy is all about fission.
Do not forget the genius amongst you, Oh American Friends. I am talking again of IEF, or Inertial Electrostatic Fusion, as demonstrated by Dr R Bussard and his team..
IEF uses Boron, an abundant and safe fuel, IEF is CLEAN, IEF has minimal to NO hazardous byproducts (except heat and electricity). IEF can BURN up a great deal of the currrent fission waste products. IEF has the POWER density to get us to the planets in no time at all.. Just imagine that, will you??
IEF generators could produce the power to clean the planet, to recycle our waste to restore our polluted world.
Pretty much all good news so far.. there must be a down side??
IEF cures the world's indulgent almost total dependence on OIL... Oh oh... Look Out Israel.. NOT good news that one.. For them..
Centralised IEF generators would produce all the energy needed for industry to (cleanly and cheaply) recycle, refine and prepare the materials needed to build all the Solar Panels and Wind Generators and water and waste processing plant that we will need for our ever increasing, increasingly power and resource hungry populations, all over the world, particularly the developing world.
We could have dispersed, grid feeding home based power generation from PV panels, we could have huge areas of sunny marginal land converted to PV farms. Superconductor grids could circle the globe so that any part of the planet could draw power. Power could be stored, yes, in dams, (how many available?)developing ultra capacitors or nanotube based batteries or even in the worlds fleet of cars.. (etc etc) All of this backed up by clean IEF generators.
Why is this not happening??
Money. Fission is expensive because of the cost of construction, fuel, disposal and decommissioning. None of these consideration apply to IEF.
IEF would change the planet and the destiny of the human race.
Dr Robert Bussard and team have demonstrated the process at reduced scale.
The physics is largely understood, funding of the next stage is a piffling $200 million. Piffling because that is a fraction of what the US spends, per day, on killing foreign oil owning towel heads..
So why is this not happening????
Evelyn Smith July 22nd, 2007 7:36 pm
It isn't that alternatives don't matter but over all of these ages humankind has only exceeded at being his own worst enemy. Call it what you want a cull, the Book of Revelations or even the art imitating life but only crazy people spread depleted uranium around the same place they live. Only crazy people trust crazy people with ICBMs.
Just in case empty out your safety deposit box(s) and draw down your accounts and stock up on plenty of canned food packed away in easy to get at bags, sacks or packs. Alternative energy will have to wait.
Nevertheless, after getting whacked trees return to Niger...with a little help from human friends.
Yep, hang out clothes.
Permaculture.
Ration gas.
No nukes.
Shadow, we have a large garden and a small fruit orchard.
We always were able to give food away to several families and the localfod bank. This year we have very little fruit or veggies from it.__ No bees.__ No humming birds either.
Usually we will have at least thirty humers and many bees of several types. Not this year, we normally count from 70 to 80 different specie of birds in our backyard patio area. This year we have counted 11 and most are not small flocks of ten or more, it is one or two. Our weather pattern has not changed here to any degrree in the past few years. Something is terribly wrong and I do believe it is the Depleted Uranium now in the atmosphere and the ever increasing ammount being used has finally begun to take an effect on life all over the planet, not just in the Mid-East. And yes that new article on CD today, the ten worst. It pretty well sums it up.___ We are screwed.
I'm in both groups OuterBeltway,
I believe that every human on the planet is going to die,___ someday. I haven't met anyone over 107 years old. I also am working on the design of a wind generation system that uses no windmills, it uses the process of divergent ducting and the phenomona of increased wind velocity near high rise buildings,which greatly increases the wind speeds and power at the flyweight turbine wheels. There are no moving parts before the flyweight/turbine and generator. Some more neat shit.
But___ if we continue to burn coal and use Depleted uranium for weaponry,___ well,___ then we are all gonna die, and not from natural causes or old age.
See the issue is that we appear to be in a military dictatorship! The dictatorship plans on KILLING as many people as possible and if all the governments join in mass extinction may be adverted. So there are all of these "solutions" you would like to try and in the meantime they are drilling for a possible "Run on the Bank"
The dictator has announced that "we will participate in a North American Union" and it looks like the next currency will be the AMERO DOLLAR. So now 3 nations running out of natural resources can join together to defend against the Russians or the Chinese! See we have already crossed the Rubicon. We are going to attack Syria and Iran and the 5 battle groups parked off Iran make that crystal clear. Protesting seems to have been outlawed.
Who here rents a safety deposit box? You better clear it out and start hiding your valuables. It turns out that in a national emergency the Federal Government can and most likely will cease all of the gold, silver and platinum! This stuff is the direct problem and then there is a real food problem and frankly desalinization will not help to irrigate the already browning crops! Then again what about the frikkin bees? Are you going to do the pollination work for them?
This thread appears to have devolved into a hyperventilation-while-doing-nothing thread. Oh, no! The world's gonna end!
Yes, there are a bunch of problems. There is also a bunch of people. Some are solving problems, some are somnambulent, some amuse themselves by wildly flailing their hands in the air trying to point out all the problems.
Which group do you fit into?
I might have brought this up but now I'm not sure?
2/3rds of the global honey bee population is dead! The remaining population is on its way out. They are almost sure that a small mite from China did them in. What do bees do? Pollinate those plant things?? This is creating food shortages NOW.
Well shadow, does that mean if we get electrical power from the wind (which discounting the "initial cost" of the power plants and parts)__is free energy. Does your ananlysis mean, that it would cost more for the wind to turn a generator, than any benefit we would derive from that power? If so, the same analysis would be true for solar power, and the production cost of the new solar tubes is far less than panels and they produce much more electrical power than the panels.
If you are correct, and I'm not saying you're not, I just don't understand why that analysis is correct. The FUEL for the wind /solar is free, so is the fuel for geo-thermal and tide power.
This is funny, not ha-ha funny though. Cost of electricity? ___I have an eighty seven dollar electric bill in my hands, there are eleven seperate charges and five seperate taxes listed. The actual cost of the electricity I used is $32.00
On human waste? Well,___ I lived in Japan for two years and they used all of theirs, they couldn't get enough of that shit. I've seen men carrying radishes down the road on their sholders. The radishes were four feet long and they weighed thirty pounds. Never got sick from eating any of the food there either. Then in, I believe Denmak, they use human waste for fuel. They burn the gases off and the solids then turn to wonderful and safe to use compost. Sealed dry toilets, no odor and no water flushing necesary.___ That is some neat shit.
Billy_y4 July 22nd, 2007 6:29 pm
Your preaching to the choir relating to the tech. My position is that in reality the government has determined that they will cull the global population and thusly insuring their survival!
A recent Science News article predicted that AI will soon overtake human intelligence. Maybe self-learning machines will save us from ourselves.
Shadow,
Thermal processes used to generate electricity (either fossil or nuclear) have waste heat. Usually this is dispersed to the environment, either a body of water or via a cooling tower.
This waste thermal energy can be used, if the generating plant is near an appropriate water supply, to desalinate salt water.
Desalination is rapidly expanding. Saudi Arabian domestic water is mostly from desalination. San Diego and Tampa both have desalination plants. These generally are dedicated plants rather than as part of a power generation plant.
The dedicated plants generally are using a high pressure filtration system called reverse osmosis. If you wanted to use the waste heat of an electrical plant you would probably use a distillation process instead. A distillation plant is more energy intensive than a reverse osmosis plant but if the heat for a distillation plant is free, it is hard to beat.
Evelyn Smith July 22nd, 2007 5:52 pm
The law of diminishing returns requires more energy to to separate oxygen from hydrogen then is released from burning the freed hydrogen. Soon 7 billion humans will have to fight it out for that .53 gallons of oil a day. Again the main issue is that ammonium nitrate requires fossil fuel. Ammonium nitrate is fertilizer. Human waste is subjected to the laws of diminishing returns as well and is not safe to use.
Bill, ___Australia and China are developing major wind and solar power sources, they have at least begun and we have not realy done much in that regard. I do believe we like Denmark are in the peculiar situation of also having a few miles of coastline, where wind genertion would be very practicle and most beneficial. We could also use some of that clean power to crack sea water and produce clean burning hydrogen fuel at an affordable price.
fpal July 22nd, 2007 5:22 pm
Your welcome fpal. To those that didn't get this there is a video that is powered by Eco Cyclists called "Robert Newman's History of Oil" he is a political comedian and has grasped the reality of the entire situation. Please watch it for yourself since it is one of the most informative videos of our times.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159&q=The+History+of+Oil&total=790&start=0&nu...
By the way folks the least of the problems is electricity! The biggest is food then water and then the .53 gallons at best per person per day and sustaining that since oil is depleting faster than originally thought. Depletion is at around 8-10% per year.
Evelyn,
A check on Wiki shows that Australia has less than 1 megawatts of solar generating capacity. The US has in excess of 400 megawatts.
Germany has the most wind generating capacity. The US and Spain are basically tied for 2nd.
Denmark has a peculiar and desireable situation. It can generate wind power and export any excess. It then can order, on short notice, all the power they need from Sweden. Sweden has an abundance of hydroelectric power in addition to its nuclear plants. The intermittency of wind power is thus not a problem for Denmark.
Evelyn Smith:
I agree with everything you said. I, however, have little faith in "leaders". I do, however, know how powerful an invention can be, and how powerful the decision of the individual can be. Those inventions and early-adopting behavior comes from individuals at the edges of society.
That would be us, more or less.
I have no expectation that leaders are going to lead. If it happens, hey that's great! But I'm not betting my planet on it.
I have faith in us. How much time would it take to replace your hot water heater with a solar system backed up with a just-in-time in-line gas-fired booster?
It would pay for itself in 5 years or less. It would get you thinking. Most importantly, it would convert you from a thinker to a do-er.
You could propose a toast to yourself, and in a modest way, induct yourself into the Rosa Parks and Ben Franklin and Thomas Edison club.
Sh@dow,
The video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159&q=The+History+of+Oil&total=790&start=0&nu...
is the best video I've seen. Thanks for the link.
This should be required viewing for all Americans in and out of school.
Excuse me,___ Denmark, not Norway is producing 22 %.
While I was typing the blog where I wrote I agree with you fellas,__ Billy got in ahead of me. I do not agree with him on the subject of nuclear energy. I do agree with him that coal burnig is a major problem.
We do not have the time to plan and argue the nuclear power plants locations, designs, etc. It would be at least ten years, probably much longer, before only one more nuker is built. Meanwhile, the old ones continue to corrode away and continue to pose a grave danger for us and our land.
Put the money we are wasting on nuclear power into clean energy and we won't have to worry about storing any more plutonium than the thousands of tons we are presently storing, with the vain hope it stays safely stored in a big hole in the ground___ "forever".
Of course we aren't storing the tons of that "strictly controlled" most deadly poison, which the NRC states is missing and unaccounted for. It isn't lost, it's somewhere on this little world of ours. We don't need it and we don't need to keep producing it. "Safe" nuclear energy is a lie.
I understand what you fellas are saying and mostly agree. (fellas?) Anyway, my point is, and has been for years, there are excellent methods of producing clean energy and the technology is rapidly advancing in that respect.
The coal fired and nuclear power plants are polluting the entire planet and their fuel sources are finite. The aging nuke plants are prone for failure of critical pipe lines and pumps, ___ they are just NOT safe, in spite of being well designed to be ultra safe. Burning coal is a horrible atmospheric pollution problem. Replace those two types of power plants as soon as possible.
A sensible and affordable basic plan to accomplish that, would be for the United States of America, to initiate a massive, world wide program, of building clean energy power systems. We should be the primary country to fund the program, as we have been the major polluter of the planet.
There are practicle means and ways to utilize wind and solar power plants, that would be capable of providing enough electricity to replace all of the coal and nuclear plants. Begin that program now and insure that improvements and technalogical advances are continually being assured and then kick in the more expensive programs to initiate, of developing tidal and geo-thermal power plants.
That is a very basic plan, the logistics, funding and all the thousands of other major and minor details could be planned aforehand. Since some other countries are already well into it, their valued advice should be sought. Norway for example, is already producing 22% of their electrical needs by wind power alone and they plan to increase that to 60% within a few years. China and Australia are into solar/wind power in a big way.___ Not big enough, and the United States lags far behind them.
We have two choices; ___one, stay the course and destroy the planet,___ or two, stop what we are doing and save it.
Time is running out. Other than family,__ time is the only thing of importance that we really have.
Tech2:
Dude, you hammered it on that one. It is a people problem, and the solutions have been around for years.
My contribution to unraveling the mess is to keep reaching out to the few, maybe the some, that are trying to actually *do* something. The ones that still have a clue about what it means to be human.
Those people deserve a helping hand. I hope you will continue to debunk the baloney, temper the dreamers (like me) a little, and provide some stories about what you have done, and what worked, and what wasn't worth the time.
There is another factor operative, though. It is becoming rapidly apparent to many Americans, and certainly the bulk of the rest of the world that the status quo is not feasible very much longer, and the "willingness to act" factor is rising very quickly.
Charles Darwin said "It's not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change".
While that may not be much comfort to the Walmart shoppers, I assure you, there are new factory operators in China that relish the prospect of finding a market for their new evacuated tube solar collector production lines. If that market is in Europe, instead of the U.S., that's good for them, right? It'll reduce their holdings of U.S. dollars in favor of Euros.
Those of you that don't want to get squashed under that steamroller are well advised to re-read what Darwin said, above.
Not everyone around the world is going to keep watching TV while the climate, and industry, and food production, and energy availability patterns change.
A KNESAL:
It is quite true that uranium is, like all minerals, a limited resource. The Japanese, who have no indigenous uranium, has been working on uranium extraction from sea water. They estimate they can do it for under $150 per pound. This is not an infinite source but could keep the world supplied with uranium, using today's style reactors (water cooled and moderated) for a couple of thousand years. This process probably will not be commercialized unless the market is constrained by geopolitics or the price of uranium is projected to stay above $150/pound for several years.
The spot price of uranium is currently over $100/pound but this is because the US and particularly Russia have been dumping strategic uranium stockpiles for the last several years and that program is winding down. (Actually it probably will be resumed with a new and more equitable marketing arrangement for the Russian material. They are currently kinda getting screwed.)
Water cooled and moderated reactors (about 350 of the 440 reactors in the world) are the most mature of the various options. They have proven reliable and safe. (Chernobyl style reactors are of a different design.) There have been accidents but no widespread injury or contamination. They are the only type power reactor in service in the US, Canada and Mexico. They are the only type liscensed for future use or under active study by the NRC.
Water reactors, for all their merits, have some drawbacks:
They don't use the uranium very efficiently. When the fuel is removed from a reactor, about 95% of the uranium remains unburned.
Water cooled reactors both create and burn plutonium. Unfortunately, plutonium is created faster than it is burned. This means there is an inventory of plutonium builds up as the fuel is used. It is not suitable for weaponry but it present.
Water cooled reactor fuel also builds up an inventory of other transuranic elements(artificial elements beyond uranium in the periodic table). Some of these other transuranic elements are the real bad actors for long term disposal of used fuel.
There are alternatives to water cooled reactors:
Fast reactors (reactors which do not have water or graphite in them) can burn all or almost all the uranium. They can burn all or almost all of the plutonium that is created in the fuel. They create far less of the other transuranic elements and can burn most of what they create.
Fast reactors are not just paper dreams. The US has operated several fast reactors in the past. The Japanese, French and Russians currently operate fast reactors. Generally they are more expensive to build and more complex to operate, therefore utilities are not particularly interested in using them instead of water cooled units.
The fuel efficiency of fast reactors is quite remarkable. To use an analogy, if you think of our current reactors as getting 20 miles per gallon, a fast reactor would get about 400 miles per gallon. This would greatly extend the projected life of the known uranium inventories.
Used fuel disposal from fast reactors will be a matter of protecting the waste for about a 1000 years rather than the million now required for Yucca mountain. This is because a fast reactor can efficiently burn the transuranic elements.
OuterBeltway:
The technical solutions have been around for years and years.
For a do-it-yourselfer, its all layed out in various books and internet sites, and for those wanting to do it and incur the high cost, or spend the countless hours getting up to speed on the technology, the opportunity is there.
You ask yourself - why isn't it all more common???
If you are willing to do the work yourself, alternative energy can work. As a technology for mass implementation in cities, industry, and fat lazy Wal-Mart shoppers, it has a long way to go. That is just reality.
Its not a technical problem its a people problem.
The debate is not technical feasibility. Many soltuions were created during the last "oil crisis" in the 1970's.
Have you never heard of Mother Earth NEws, Harrowsmith etc..
Its all been done before.
I have a Rodale Press "Home Food Systems" Catalogue from the 1970's showing ultra-insulated fridges, grain mills, non-electric fridges, solar food dryers etc.. etc.. all products build by alterntaive energy dreamers and every single one went broke - financial dud.
I am telling you - hardly anyone is willing to spend the money for alternative energy. TELLING YOU FROM EXPERIENCE.
Three are too many problems when you start getting into the nuts and bolts of it.
Anyway, I am so tired of all you dreamers who go on and on about solartopia, but when you are told of the cost and the technical complexity, you all want to stay safe, and stay fossil fuel consumers.
However, I am at total peace, because I know:
Humans will never invent a better solar panel than a plant.
Humans will never build a better cellulose converter than a cow.
Humans will never build a better fertilizer factory than a chicken.
Humans will never build a better heater than the Sun.
(passive solar works very well)
The world is so perfect just the way it was created, but we humans are so arrogant, that we cannot see that simple fact.
God is good, humans are stupid.
Tech2 said:
The reason why "clean energy" is not everywhere is because
OUTBELTWAY's math does not consider entropy, or the "quality of the energy" - Billy_y4 is considering it in his cost analysis.
Solar, wind, tidal etc.. are all very difuse energy sources, and to concentrate them costs a lot of money.
Its not a matter of "can it be done" - lots of things can be done, its just some things cost a lot of money when you sit down and crunch the numbers.
---------------
I say:
3kWhours per square meter per day is pretty concentrated energy. My household electricity use is about 1000 KwHours per month (about average). My south-facing roof exposure is about 30 square meters. Assuming 15% capture efficiency, in 15 days of average sunlight, year-round, I can collect from that small footprint enough energy to power my house.
To me, that's pretty concentrated. You didn't refute the math about the power available - you just implied that it was too diffuse (I assume that's your intent in the use of the word "entropy") to be collected in an economically or energy-efficient (energy in .vs. energy out) manner. You're right if you refer to the state of art for solar cells, but there are several examples of systems for which that isn't true, for example windmills, hot water or home heat from hot water via solar collectors, passive solar building design) that are cost-effective right now, even at this nascent stage of technical development.
If just 10% of the smart, action-oriented types reading this list were to pick just one tactic to implement this year, whether it be solar hot water heater, tele-working, insulate your house, take public transport, buy more locally-grown food, etc. and make a success of it, and tell your friends, it would have a huge impact. Social change (and that's what this is: social change - not technological revolution) comes bottom up - it's demand driven.
Big companies are run by people who try to maximize the profit from an existing investment. That's how you make money. You don't replace plant and equipment until and unless you absolutely have to. Our job as change agents is to quickly obsolete their existing investments by refusing to buy their product. I assure you, as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow morning, they will find a way to overcome Tech2's ever-weakening "entropy of energy" objection. If efficient, distributed power generation is the only thing consumers will buy, big business will darned sure find a way to deliver it.
Run your life according to your own interests. Renewable energy: accept no substitutes.
I don't get it. Clean energy is viable,__ it is affordable,__ it is proven beyond a shadow of doubt that it works__ and it is the only sensible way to go. America should begin a massive effort to kick start the program. If we would, we could have our cake and eat it too. The only roadblock, is the big money people who really control the world, they own us and our government____ and we allow it.
Link to 'Available Material Article'
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070321092710.htm
When money is the bottom line, you can forget safety! Talk about all the safety tech stuff you like, nuclear accidents are coming our way. I think using less energy is the beginning of many answers to the energy question. Yea, I'm hangng my clothes on the line too. We could turn off half the street lights..... There are some things we could do, right quick. But there are many many things that need to change, big time, life styles, gadets we don't need. We are addicted to energy! Ya think maybe the bottom is near?
The reason why "clean energy" is not everywhere is because
OUTBELTWAY's math does not consider entropy, or the "quality of the energy" - Billy_y4 is considering it in his cost analysis.
Solar, wind, tidal etc.. are all very difuse energy sources, and to concentrate them costs a lot of money.
Its not a matter of "can it be done" - lots of things can be done, its just some things cost a lot of money when you sit down and crunch the numbers.
Competent Environmenatists and ecologists attack the status quo using a "whole system cost" approach, pointing out that some sources of cheap energy (like coal) are not so cheap when you look at the big picture.
HOwever, the status quo hits back with their own "whole system cost" analysis of solar, wind etc.. and fossil fuel comes out not looking so bad.
Except for one little problem.
Corporations still look at processes with
infinite primary resources
infinite garbage can
The only way to force them to get out of this paradigm is to tax for depleting valuable, irreplaceable resources (like the air, water, etc...) , and tax them for garbage creation and garbage disposal.
That is all that is required. Its just as simple as that, in my opinion.
The problem is this:
Imagine you are an honest corporation and you do the right thing, clean up your act, and then the competition goes to the third world country and runs the same old processes with huge pollution, but they have the local corrupt government in their back pocket, so they win out over the "honest corporation" who tried to do it right.
The Nuclear Industries push for more Nuclear plants is simply a temporary grab for High profits. There simply isn't enough available raw fissionable material to support a long running Nuclear energy program.
The result of such a short term program would be more Corporate Profits and high Public costs, and deadly Nuclear pollution lasting in relative Human life spans forever!
A KNESAL ..... "Liberal Warrior' ..... "Little Beirut"
I'm on the wrong site, I thught this was the nuclear power debate.
Siouxrose July 22nd, 2007 10:04 am
Again our money is backed by NOTHING. Plunder, empire and the rest have failed time and again. If we are talking about money then we must remember that ours is in reality worth 1 RED CENT per dollar. Many years ago the gold and silver backed certificates were eliminated and that was the moment when our true wealth was stolen. Since then everything is about BS.
It was good of you to point out that our military is actually a band of looting marauders plundering the wealth of the Middle East. Our Constitution clearly defines the limitations and operation of our militias for defense. With no formal declaration of war and no truth to the allegations about WMD and responsibility for 9-11 it is clear that our paid professional warriors are swashbuckling it in a sea of sand!
SHADOW says, "The USA is $9TRILLION in the hole and we are in a dictatorship and import all of our energy and our money is WORTHLESS as it is backed by NOTHING>" Not exactly nothing, bro... US military is a lot like the mafia's hit men, that go out to make sure all profits remain skimmed off the top of everyone else's industries (on a global scale). Now if the Bush wars of lopsided reasoning cause a collapse in our military, then the rebound will be felt. Without $, there is no mercenary force to buy... right now I don't think China, Japan and other nations can afford NOT to bail the US out as their economies are linked with ours. If the Iran matter heats up, enough nations may choose to pull the plug for lots of reasons, nuclear emissions among them. NOT a pretty scenario in blood or treasure.
Billy_y4 July 22nd, 2007 8:14 am
Years ago I worked directly in the "industry" and frankly if you want your computer, refrigerator, microwave, etc. to work the biggest requirement is mass production. All of our "stuff" starts in a mine and mines require massive amounts of energy. The machines that make machines must also be produced. Foundries, steel mills, machine shops, assembly lines, chemical plants and all of the rest will not exist without mines, water, energy and the machines that make that happen.
Hospitals will come to a screeching halt without electricity, running water and sanitation. There are about 1000 PBMRs in the works and due to our $9 Trillion of debt and worthless money the USA is in for pain since our plants are due to be decommissioned.
techie:
I don't sit on any boards. I don't make enough money and I hate ties.
Yes, the utilities worry about baseload and grid management. Personally, I'm fond of my electricity and glad that they do. The longest blackout I have experienced was about a week and it was a pain in the neck.
Evelyn,
I don't work at a power plant so I don't know specific procedures but I think I understand the nuclear culture. 95% of their low level waste would be disposibles used to control trace contamination which may or may not actually be present. It would be clothing, lay down paper, and cleaning materials.
If they had anything with serious radiation levels, say a primary coolant sensor that had been replaced, it would not be low level. It would be intermediate level waste and would be in a shielded storage container, not a drum. (There usually is not much high level material except the used fuel.)
The USA solution currently in the works is to kill everyone that is not with "US" and spread DU dust to generally shorten lives and cause sterility! Essentially, wide scale eugenics is being used to thin the herd along with a global restructuring.
Since the "dust bowl" is making another appearance here in the US and since the global population of honey bees seems to be under attack (down to almost a 1/3) from a Chinese mite who's name escapes me. In order to cope with a changing climate science has made GM crops and these produce their own pesticides along with lower water and fertilizer demands.
Now the assumption that we can "fix" any of this is erroneous at best. There is not one thing that we haven't screwed up and I can think of anything we have actually fixed. There was some math I did regarding liquid fuels above; there is more math regarding a unit called a "calorie." If we cease using nuclear we will be forced to burn more and more coal. Once coal goes into decline (that will come soon) we will take another energy step backward and be forced to burn wood! Mass extinction will likely happen between those events.
The Reindeer of St. Matthew Island ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Rei... )experiment is the most probable model of our true future and it is inevitable that humanity would face extinction but it just so happens that the combination of resource depletion and population overshoot will take us out. In a last minute sort of way we packed for a trip but got to the airport and realized we left our tickets home!
Billy_y4,
Good analysis. You sound like you just stepped out of a Utility Board room!
The problem with wind/solar power and baseload on a large system is an important issue for corporations, as is the glaring capital cost difference between solar/wind and nuclear.
For me, I'w with Local Geometery - bring on the clotheslines!!
I feel inspired enought to that I might just scrap my computer power supply, go buy one of those antique foot-powered sewing machines, and connect them together.