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Karzai Angry Over West's Tactics
Nato and US-led troops are failing to co-ordinate with their Afghan allies and thereby causing civilian deaths, President Hamid Karzai has said.
He criticised his Western allies' "extreme" use of force and said they should act as his government asked.
"Innocent people are becoming victims of reckless operations" because the troops had ignored Afghan advice for years, Mr Karzai told reporters.
He was speaking after a week in which up to 90 Afghan civilians were killed.
"You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 37 kilometres (24 miles) away into a target. That's definitely, surely bound to cause civilian casualties," he said.
More civilians have been killed this year as a result of foreign military action than have been killed by insurgents, correspondents say.
The south of the country has seen the worst violence since the Taleban were ousted from power in 2001 by US-led troops.
Accusing international forces of consistently failing to co-ordinate with their Afghan colleagues, Mr Karzai said that, in future, every military operation should be co-ordinated directly with his government, in accordance with written plans he said already existed.
"As you are aware over the past several days, as result of indiscriminate and imprecise operations of Nato and coalition forces, our people suffered casualties," Mr Karzai told reporters in Kabul, looking visibly angry.
"We are thankful for their help to Afghanistan. But that does not mean that Afghan lives have no value.
"Afghan life is not cheap and it should not be treated as such," he said.
'One too many'
There are two international missions in Afghanistan: the Nato-led Isaf, with 37,000 troops from 37 countries including the US. Its aim is to help the Afghan government bring security, development and better governance.
The US-led coalition - under the banner of Operation Enduring Freedom - is a counter-terrorism mission that involves mainly special forces.
Both have recently been involved in heavy clashes with insurgents.
On Friday, Nato's secretary general called for an investigation into the latest incident in which 25 civilians were killed in an air strike in the Afghan province of Helmand.
Speaking in Quebec City, Canada, Mr de Hoop Scheffer said no Nato, coalition or Afghan soldier would knowingly take aim at a civilian, and accused the Taleban of using civilians as human shields.
"Each innocent civilian victim is one too many," he said. "Unfortunately it happens."
© BBC MMVII
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49 Comments so far
Show AllCome On People, you hear Arab, there is No time to waste. My feeling is that the general readership here is more than a little concerned, we're people who voted for someone other than Bush, have spent days and hours writing letters to Congressman and women, have marched repeatedly in protests, and here we are. All our efforts seem in vain. So what Now, are we to start begging the people in power, while we forget We Are the Power. Come On, shut the country down. If it leads to another civil war, it would still be a better option than World WarIII.
A little note to Arab. I respect your views. God knows we are fed up and sickened by the violence and the non-stop war attitude of our so called government. But we feel like passengers in the back of the bus and even though its careening off the cliff our bus driver is deaf. We can only yell so much. Congress knows what we want even the moron Bush knows what we want. It's not a lack of knowing its a lack of caring. And that little rant about supporting our government with our taxes we have no choice. It's called the IRS and they can be down right nasty when they want to.
So much of what we are really talking about is years and years of bad foreign policy coupled with two of the most arrogant in your face scumbags I have ever seen in my life. Let's hope whatever corporation (I mean person) occupies the white house they'll turn down the corporate globilization,pushing democracy at the end of a gun crap. But my real fear is Bush & Company is going to set some really bad ass stuff in motion that will take years and years to solve. And let's face it our political machine is flat broke!
Regina Carpenter:
"...The Bush admin. may think that it can get away with killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, but it has forgotten one important thing. Karma. What goes around, comes around. This is universal law, and it cannot be escaped."
Yes, I think you are exactly right Regina. In Christian terms that same 'Universal Law' is illustrated in the phrase, "As you sow, so shall you reap."
Whichever culture, -East or West, it matters not, -the same concept applies.
The UK people were dragged unwillingly into the Iraq and Afghan debacle by a slippery-tongued megalomaniac deceiver called Tony Bliar, and so that nation too now has much blood upon it's hands, and like the USA (and any other nation or individual) they who break universal laws, such as the injunction, "Thou shalt not kill" -will *decide for themselves*, at some point in time, that they need to pay recompense for their needless, heedless crimes...
Karma is a complicated issue, (it's very intricate workings are not comprehended by many) but the basic concept can be easily understood.
When cataclysm later strikes an individual, -or a nation, it is often the universal law in action. As we hurt and defile this little blue planet, so even she will cough and splutter, shake and writhe.
No nation, no matter what it's prior standing or good potential, is 'allowed' to continue with renegade actions which offend heaven...
We ought not to be inviting nature's upheavals by such crazed adventures into war.
As little human midgets on the face of this planet we are well-advised to act peacefully and compassionately, non-violently and without hatred, on all possible occasions.
When we fail to take this advice, we then receive useful lessons to help us improve...
Hatred, in word or action, -to any, -by any, at anytime, is never useful for the planet.
Our human duty now is to turn it all around.
This is well within our means; it just takes our persistence, patience, Love, commitment and courage, to rise to the challenge and 'make a difference' in this world of ours.
ballsy said,
"those terrorists are really smart. they keep putting human shields up right before the US bombs them. how do these people know where we are going to bomb before hand?"
Yeah, if they had that kind of foreknowledge they'd be hell and gone from whatever location happened to be the target. They would need to do a little convincing to get the human shields to stay put however...
Human Shields: "Hey, where are you guys going?"
Fighter: "Uh, we're, um....we're making a food run!" [backs out the door] "Yeah, uh, you all just stay put and we'll bring back some...some...well, what do you guys want? Pringles? Did somebody say Pringles? Okay, then...Uh, what's that sir? Mountain Dew? Yep, we'll grab some of that, too. Anything else? No? Okay, we'll be back in about...oh...30 minutes. Stay put. Stay!" [slowly closes door, turns, and sprints with his buddies towards the nearest hill]
Are we shamed or angered by what arab just wrote? Is our congress? Hope they are more shamed than angered. Perhaps they WILL go back to work and start with the impeachment process. That intelligent, hard working woman whom I once respected and admired, stated. "Impeachment is NOT on the table!" Well good lady, it's your house now and the small talk is over; it's time to set the table and let the feasting begin!!!
I forgot to ask, does anyone here know if we still have a working congress in the United States? Someone told me we did not and I find that a bit difficult to believe. The guy also said President Bush had disbanded congress and was going to issue a Presidential Order and declare himself Emperor, and congress don't even know about it. Didn't Napolean do that? Hey Bush Jr. would look good wearing a hat like Napolean wore. Can see him wearing it now while clearing brush on his good ol Texas ranch. Yup!
Wonder if GWB realizes, that when the US finally fesses up and declares bankruptcy, that no one will lend us any more money? We'll quickly have another depression and millions of Mexicans, along with hired mercenaries from Argentina, will be pourng across the border, all at the same hour, carrying AK-47s and RPGs. They will take their land back in the SW and hoist a Mexican flag at the Alamo. Better Nukem now George, they're gonna get ya. Silly huh? Maybe not!
Afghanistan has been swallowing up armies since the time of Alexander, if not before. For recent history, ask the British, the Russians, and now the Yanks.
The Afghans are largely tribal and their warlords fight each other incessantly. It is sort of a national blood sport. They are very good at it. When an outsider horns in, they join together long enough to run the varmint off, so they can get back to their game. About all that we and the Russians have added to the equation is more modern weapons.
dougrambo:
You are a nut, a funny one though. Like your humor.
In all seriousness, We all know that killing people is not funny, even when it is proven to be necessary. By necssary, I mean for just one example: Say an evil dictator and all of his inner circle have been brought to trial, IF found guilty of capital crimes against humanity, the death penalty may be appropriate, surely a life long imprisonment. Of course I can't think of any right now who fit that example. Gotta think about it, may be a few.
Hey dougrambo, it's called rollerblading now. As for the '50s, it was a great time for sleepwalking through life, but that won't work for us anymore. And it never did for some of us.
As for Karzai, he's asking for it, biting the hand that feeds him. Does he still need a full press bodyguard to keep from being assassinated? He may lose it if he keeps challenging his keepers.
You got something against roller skating ya little punk!
Wait a minute when you said dogs you better not of meant the little Misses ya little punk!
One wonders what prompts this old man to speak up now? When you lay down with dogs....
Instead of building air bases and setting up green zones. We need to build roller skating rinks all over Baghdad. I bet these people have never roller skated in their lives and Popcorn let them eat good ol american popcorn then they will put down their guns and eat popcorn and roller skate. Then the world will be happy again. It worked well in the 50's I bet it would work again. Well I have to go My honey says it's time to take my medicine.
Ya put your left foot in ya put your left foot out... shake it all about....That's what it's all about (always loved that tune)
"They hate us 'cause were free"
I am so sick of my gov't taking no responsibility for any civilian deaths in Afghanistan. They are destroying that small, poor country without any concern for its citizens. The Bush admin. may think that it can get away with killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, but it has forgotten one important thing. Karma. What goes around, comes around. This is universal law, and it cannot be escaped. Bush has cast his poisonous bread upon the water, it will come back tenfold. Whether he is impeached or not, he and his partners in crime will face justice. Watch for it, it has already begun.
Am I being unpatriotic by reading news about Afghanistan instead of just going shopping?
I totally agree Regina Carpenter; which is why we ought to get him out out there but as you are well aware that is not going to happen, because they don't care about the future. All they care about is what they can gain now and they will keep surging foward.
Karzai jaan tashakor! You are correct Afghan lives are priceless.
The American government and big business values the Afghan life the same as an American life- little to no value. It is why we don't have national health care here, it is not highly profitable to make it happen so hey, a few people die from lack of health care. What' the big deal?
And the President of Afghanistan thinks that his people should have more value? Though it may be lip service on his part to some degree, because he is afterall a US puppet, Karzai is still an installed puppet. But sometimes puppets start acting independently, like Saddam did. Then they somehow find themselves with a different set of strings on, the one around their neck.
so it goes, and goes,
www.NotOneMore.US/staythecourse.htm - How our president makes decisions (slight humor)
We have a long history of this behavior. In Vietnam, Colin Powell tried to keep the Mi Lai massacre quiet--a solider of conscience, a helicopter pilot brought forth evidence just as the soldier produced pictures of the American-run prisons in Iraq. Colin Powell glibly talks of "collateral damage" and acceptable civilian deaths. In the Gulf War it is said that over 300 women and children were killed in a single attack:
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0409-03.htm
The warmongers in Washington (including Bush, Sr) do not care about people. They care about money, oil, and power. People are expendable as "collateral damage."
Saddam warned this government that he intended to invade Kuwait and Bush, Sr.'s ambassador said: we won't interfere, thus encouraging Saddam's actions--only to play the big defender of Kuwait's liberty later. Our government has a sordid history of deceit. Bush, Sr. convinced Saudi Arabia to allow military bases in that country--holy ground to Muslims, thus inspiring real hatred amongst the fundamentalists Muslims--telling them that the Iraqis were getting ready to invade their country and convincing them that they needed Big Brother's military defense. Our whole presence in that area has been about oil and power from day one. It doens't matter how many civilians are killed. Just as Daniel Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers outlining our true interest in the resources of Vietnam and Indochina, so the record shows what we've been up to in the Middle East. Nixon and Kissinger hounded Ellsberg and Nixon's henchmen broke into Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office trying to get some "dirt" on the guy who was exposing them. Nixon used the IRS to "punish" his "enemies". Good riddence to "I'm not a crook" Nixon--hell was no doubt enlarged on the day of his death, and if Kissinger and the rest were tried as war criminals, the civilized world might, just might begin to respect us again.
If your skin's not white and your looks aren't European, your life isn't worth crap. That's the message that whole part of the world is getting. But then, to this American administration nobody's life is worth crap unless they're Republican and have money to give to Bush and Cheney.
http://grumpylion.wordpress.com
President Karzai is starting to sound like a COMMUNIST...oh, fuck. I mean TERRORIST. I'm pretty sure he supplied (candy bars? Tissues? rides to the airport?) to Al Qaeda! He has a copy of Mein Kompf by his bedside! He's the worst dictator since HITLER. To WAR! good people! To War!!! We need regime change in Afghanistan (Panama, Iran, North Korea, or anywhere that people fail to recognize the sovereignty of the United States over the WORLD!!!) I believe Mr. Bush needs to have absolute and total access to every American's book purchasing and borrowing lists in order to combat Mr. Karzai's evil plans. All librarians and booksellers must comply to save the Nation (of United Corporations)! Any librarian or bookseller failing to comply should earn a vacation in Guantanamo. After all, if you are a GOOD American, why do you have to hide your reading list? I'm sure Mr. Bush will tell you what's threatening in every book you choose during your trial, you terrorist loving bibliophiles! Mr. Bush needs unlimited spying capabilities so that he can be SURE he knows what you're reading [and how you're likely to vote so his people at Diebold can make sure YOUR voting machine is rigged to vote AGAINST surrendering the Country to TERRORISTS (or voting Democrat, or, God forbid: GREEN!!!)]. We need to bomb the Godless makers of solar and wind power so that America will not be turned aside in her ENDLESS THIRST (for oil) to ROOT OUT TERRORISM (unlawful possession of stuff we really want). Wave your flags high from your SUVs as we DRIVE for the American Dream (the elimination of all life on the planet)!!!
There's something else going on here with President Karzai. Innocent people aren't "becoming victims of reckless operations"--they have been victims for years and unfortunately will continue to be because that's how the US conducts its wars (most notably against the Japanese).
"What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,000 - 3,400 [October 7, 2001 thru March 2002] civilian deaths -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan."
from: A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A Comprehensive Accounting [revised]
http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm
Let's say there are two groups of people in Afghanistan, the terrorists and the innocent civilian. At the rate the U.S. and its European allies are killing the innocent civilians pretty soon there would be no civilians and the war would be over because there are no civilians for the terrorists to terrorize, right?
Another point, this guy who is protecting the life of a fetus by banning the stem cell research has already caused the death of close to a million human beings. The greatest hypocrite this side of the Atlantic, right?
Another point, Karzai is the case of a servant criticizing his master, right?
What is it with America and the need to keep murdering innocent women and children all over the world is it not about time they were tried as WAR CRIMINALS as the NAZI'S were
fellow C-Ders, afghanistan has been the deathbed of many an imperial venture and rest assured it will be so again. at great cost, of course.
those terrorists are really smart. they keep putting human shields up right before the US bombs them. how do these people know where we are going to bomb before hand?
the moral calculus of our leaders: killing civilians as a P/R issue.
And what was it Ann Coulter said we should do: "let's go kill them all and convert their children to Christianity." Bush just heard the first part and thought it a fine idea. Mean-spirited idiots advising mean-spirited idiots.
Fed Up is brain dead. "They hate us for our freedom" - what rubbish. It is a blindly stupid statement used by your major Republican candidates to explain why they hate us. If you invade a country, kill many people and install a puppet government decent citizens will hate you. Uninvited we invaded Iraq, destroyed the country with at least 500,000 dead at this point and two million having fled, set up a puppet government, and built permanent air bases and a mammoth fortress - the Green Zone. And we want to steal their oil. How could the not hate us? Why can't we understand this? Invading armies have always been hated.
The scale of the disaster is admittedly less in Afghanistan but as with the Russians before us we are in the middle of a tribal struggle with no clear vision as to what we intend to accomplish. The death toll mounts and they hate us
Fed up was being ironic. Kindly note the quote marks.
Interesting to see Karzai stand up and complain.
This war has been immoral from the start, and it's impossible to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
Like the British Empire before ours, we follow an essentially racist imperial policy when we try to get our way in non-european parts of the world. Why should this be a surprise to anyone? Just look at our miserable history of slavery, repression of the poor and powerless, repression of labor, brainwashing campaigns to get people to buy useless junk and to join the military. Our prosperity is built on oppression and to deny that reality is to live in a world of delusion which is exactly what most Americans live in.
Note to Hamid Karzai--
Beware, when you sleep with sharks sooner or later you are gonna get bit. I am sure life was so much simpler as a CIA asset instead of a Bushco puppet..
So much bloodshed for Unocal's pipeline.
On 7/4/7 the Americans can celebrate the sacrifice of their children to Moola. It's like Eid but without an angel to stay the hand of the corporations.
No, they hate us because we are shooting at them. And that sounds like a damned good reason to hate someone.
Yes, it is the old Nixon strategy for Nam. Our soldier's getting killed and maimed is bad politics because there could be protest marches in the streets. So lets bomb the crap out of them. That means fewer troop casualties, better politics, and more contracts to the military industrial complex. That's a win-win-win proposal.
Then you have to think of the realities of cluster bombs and carpet bombing. It is the same mentality as using Napalm: large areas are rendered lifeless.
Nanoo: The difference between the Vietnam War and the War on Iraq is that we do not currently have a draft. If we did, there would be riots in the streets. People are not being radicalized by a draft and getting forced to fight a war you do not support or have people in your extended family forced to go.
Today, Paris Hilton and American Idol are called "News" and there is very little investigative reporting. Most reporting is focused on selling newspapers, magazines and increasing viewership on the net or TV.
When you knowingly fire a weapon, knowings accuracy characteristics and the probabilities of it being inaccurate into an area with civilians, and thus you know that there is a significant probability of civilian causalities, it doesn't matter if were 'aiming' at the civilians.
Especially when this happens time after time, case after case, year after year. In such a case, they know they are likely to kill civilians. And since they do it time after time, year after year, it becomes a statistical certainty that civilians will die. The same mathematics that say a casino always makes money apply here too.
Saying 'we didn't aim at civilians', or that 'we always try to minimize civilian casualties', simply doesn't suffice as an excuse any longer. These people know they are taking actions which over time will result in a certain number of civilian casualties.
To me, that is as much of a war crime as if they went and personally picked out the civilians, put a pistol to their head and shot them.
PS ... Iraq is shifting to the same strategy. This is basically the Democratic 'redeployment' alternative to Bush's war. Move the troops into bases and other countries in the area, then step up air attacks. You see here the result. And its one reason I'm not terribly impressed by the morality of the Democrats either.
One thing about Bush, and the leadership of America in general. They don't believe in Karma. Karma is a farout lefty thing that they ridicule. Their fundamentalist Christian religion tells them that as long as they've taken the step of accepting Christ as their lord and savior, that they are automatically forgiven for their sins. Essentially their religion tells them they have a 'get out of jail free' card in their personal relationship with Christ.
The fact that the Christ who traveled the earth teaching peace and love would be appalled by what they are doing doesn't seem to enter into their thoughts very often, so I'm not so sure how well this is going to work out for them. Me, I picture Christ looking at them and saying "you got to be f'ing kidding me" when they get to the afterlife and try to explain this theory to him. But this is what they believe.
to hell with your karma. i want some goddamn justice, and we all know that ain't coming. drop bush and cheney in downtown bagdad, and tell them to hail a cab.
Arab, you are mistaken about at least one item you wrote about. "We The People" are not funding a war with OUR tax dollars. The wars our leaders wage are funded with money they have BORROWED from China, Japan and others. Our taxes all go to pay just the interest on those loans, which may never be paid off. Our children, grand children and our great grand children will be still be paying the interest on the loans taken out since GWB took full control of the White House and the congress. (also, we did not elect him, he snuck in through the back door.) He is not just a damn liar, he is a sneaky liar.
The tax and loan issue is assuming of course, that we will still be a nation when our children are stil having children. Your comments(arab)may certainly be an eye opener for many of us; wish you'd never felt the need to write them.
I have a question? Isn't KARMA related to what our potential rewards or puishments may or may not be be in our next life, and are dependant upon the things we do in this life?
Karzai the puppet better stick to dancing on the end of the strings. If he tugs too hard he will join Saddam and the Vietnamese leaders (among others) we brushed aside in interesting and brutal ways.
Bu$h the inferior and the neocons hate their own troops and mercenaries. (judge them by their actions) Why would they care if Afghans and Iraqis die?
Evelyn Smith: Yes, Karma is the universal Law of Cause and Effect, so it applies to individuals, families, groups, nations, planets, and on. As stated above, 'What you sow, thus shall you reap,' which is usually interpreted that kindness toward self and others increases one's merit, whereas actions motivated by hatred, anger, greed, envy, spite and so on will ultimately bring you like consequences. When your kindness rebounds to you, you can send it out again to create more good. When your anger, etc., rebounds to you, your choice is to recognize where it ultimately came from (yourself) and assume responsibility or to repulse it and push it back out usually blaming someone else for your bad luck. If we can see our lives as encompassing more than these measly 80 or 90 years on earth, sometimes we get hints (through dreams, through random thoughts at unexpected times) about a piece of good fortune occurring because of something we did for another at some time in the past. Also, we can see consequences of things we thought, said, or did years ago coming at us from left field at times. And, to get to the the actual question you asked, whatever life we may have in the future -- next life, or the one after that, etc. -- is most certainly influenced by what we think, say, and do now in the present.
In terms of the present discussion, other comments have shown that the country we know now as Afghanistan has again and again defeated invading armies. So, though that land may have the karma of being invaded, it also has the karma of successfully repulsing the invader. I couldn't even guess what that might imply for the future, and, just for the record, it's not such a good idea to predict someone else's karma. In this context, though, I must admit to thinking long and hard about the karma of the USA (both positive and negative effects) and again and again come back to the fatal flaw of racism (the compromise of keeping slavery legal and counting 3/5 of a man) as the root cause of the American malaise. Those who participate here by blogging rightfully express outrage at the callous indifference of both this Administration and the majority of Congress people. We are searching for the remedy for the illness we perceive has stricken our country, and ultimately I think one large cause lies in the attitude toward those who are seen as "other". Accurate diagnosis will help know what remedial action is necessary, and as I see it now, we need a massive re-education of the heart.
Using people as human shields is disgusting.
The terrorists should all assemble in a big open area and sit there.
No family visits. No home leave.
Just sit on that bull's-eye and wait.
IRIS: Thank you so much for the lesson, I believe I understand.
On just one issue you mention, the issue of slavery. The first time I was even really aware of the problem was in 1954. I was eighteen years old then. A young and under educated, uninformed kid, who was a new US servivceman who wore the uniform with pride.
I was on a Greyhound bus, travelling from Penna to Kansas. It was one of those bus rides where one stayed on the same bus for the entire trip. When we arrived at the bridge that crossed the river to St. Louis, the driver pulled over and stopped. No one said a word, but all of the African Americans seated near the front, got up and came to the back of the bus. ( they were called negros then, by the polite white folks.) A black gentleman told me I would have to move to the front. I was stunned, but I left my seat and moved to the front, still rather ignorant of what was occurring. Shortly after, we pulled into the bus terminal in St.Louis; When I got out to use the restaurant, I could not believe my eyes. There were big signs on the doors of two restaurants, one red WHITES ONLY, the other read COLORED.
For a few moments I just stood there with my mouth open, and noticed some of the black or brown colored people were looking at me with a hurt and knowing expression of, "SEE." I saw, and I was ashamed. I was also ashamed that I chickened out and didn't use the COLORED resturnant___ But I didn't. You know, that still bothers me whenever I think of it. Like right now.
Think I'll search around this website and look for some of the comments written by siouxrose, iris or un-comon dreams. Maybe I'll learn more about kindness and the good side of humanity. I'm realy tired of reading about Cheney, Bush and the other sick ones.
If the worm does turn ,
it's simply in order to survive.
If the poodle does round on its master ,
it's just because its had enough
of all the cooing , petting and cuddling.
Christ's warning of the law of the harvest actually seems more severe than karma. Christ said you reap what you sow--and if you think about it, you always get back ten-fold or a hundred fold for ever seed you sow. Sow a bad one, and you get it back 10 or 100 times.
Also, Christ said that many will claim they did all sorts of things in His name, but he said on judgement day "I will say, depart from me ye workers of iniquity because I never knew you."
One more Biblical injunction. The Bible says "an evil ruler brings evil upon his people." This was true for Saddam and it is equally true for Bush. Peas of a pod.
Arab, I don't blame you for your anger. Some of us, but not nearly enough Americans are furious, grieved, and shamed at what Bushco is doing. I don't know what country you live in or how you are personally affected by US actions, but know that some of us are doing all we can to change the direction of the US. To stop paying taxes would not make any difference except to throw us in prison, lose our homes and put our children in foster care. And the occupation and murder would go on. Perhaps it is better for us to stay out of jail and continue to fight for change.
We've had 6 years of this insane mayhem and I don't understand how Americans can allow such things to be done in our name. Maybe that Biblical quote will be a comfort to you "an evil ruler brings evil upon his people." I don't know. I only know that until people realize we are all one on a spiritual level, the bloodletting will not stop. And that doesn't just apply to Americans. We aren't the only ones doing the killing. I'm not trying to excuse or exonerate what Americans are doing. We must each take responsibility for our own behaviors, and ours are reprehensible.
I am profoundly sorry and shamed at what my country is doing and I wish the rest of the world would band together and stop us. I know Americans don't know the real truth and I hope that if they did they would force a stop to our atrocities. Our media is complicit in the lies Americans are being told. I also believe that we will reap what we sow, sooner or later. No one escapes the consequences of their actions. It may look like they do but they don't.
I can imagine Arab's posts originating from some neocon activist's keyboard, looking to share the blame and shame of their misadventures in politics.
To you, Arab (if you really are): this is a forum full of potential allies. Tarring us all with the same bloody brush is unfair and unproductive. Most at C.D are appalled and ashamed of our current leaders and are motivated thus to attempt to adjust the status quo.
I don't agree with you, Samski. And I feel sorry for Arab. Think how Americans reacted to 9/11. Almost all of them wanted to go bomb Afghanistan, not concerned about civilian casualties. And there was a huge anti-Muslim attitude. Didn't matter that most Muslims were horrified by the WTC bombing, and that we had support and compassion from the majority of Muslims worldwide (Bush really blew that off). Americans wanted revenge, wanted to see someone else's blood, and didn't care if they were innocent or not. I was appalled by the reaction. So why should Arab be any different?
And there's another factor: racism. When I read that Muslim women in this country were being abused and afraid to leave their homes I decided to wear a scarf Muslim style to support them. And I experienced the racism first hand. And I learned about overt and covert racism. I experienced abuse, and I discovered what covert racism feels like. It is a private act between victim and perpetrator that leaves you feeling powerless and degraded. It eats the soul. It is much worse than overt racism. I thought, My God, this is how it feels to be Black in this country. What I knew intellectually was nothing compared to what I experienced on a feeling level. The old saying "You cannot know a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes" is true. I can tell people this until I'm blue in the face, but I know that unless they experience this themselves as I did, they won't really get it as I didn't. Because until then, I thought I did get it. I was wrong. My eyes were opened when I was 10 years old with an experience with a little Black boy. But until I was treated that way, I was shielded from the impact. I was an outsider.
So no, I can't judge Arab. I'm just sorry and ashamed of our country. And I learned something else. I learned how Muslim men feel about their women. The responses from those men were something I have never experienced.