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TechnoratiThe two-star Army General who led the first military investigation into human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq has bluntly questioned the integrity of former US Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, suggesting he misled the US Congress by downplaying his own prior knowledge of what had happened.
Major General Antonio Taguba also claimed in an interview with The New Yorker magazine published yesterday that President George Bush also "had to be aware" of the atrocities despite saying at the time of the scandal that he had been out of the loop until he saw images in the US media.
The White House issued a response denying the claim, however. "The President said over three years ago that he first saw the pictures of the abuse on the television," Scott Stanzel, a spokesman, said.
In the extensive interview, Maj-Gen Taguba insisted that at the very least Mr Rumsfeld "was in denial" at a congressional hearing in May 2004, when he said he had only become aware of the extent of the abuse - and seen some of the shocking photographic evidence - one day before. The Secretary told members of Congress that the images published in the media were "not yet in the Pentagon".
Mr Rumsfeld had summoned Maj-Gen Taguba to the Pentagon on the eve of the hearing, which took place one week after first US media reports of the abuse surfaced in The New Yorker and on CBS News. Yet the General had begun his investigation several months earlier, in January 2004, and had circulated his finished report to Pentagon managers - with pictures and a video - several weeks before seeing Mr Rumsfeld. "The photographs were available to him - if he wanted to see them," Maj-Gen Taguba said.
As for the Secretary's congressional appearance, he claimed: "Rumsfeld is very perceptive and has a mind like a steel trap. There's no way he's suffering from CRS - Can't Remember Shit. He's trying to acquit himself."
Mr Bush has since conceded that the abuse at Abu Ghraib is the one thing he regrets about the war in Iraq. The photographs that became public at the time - and sparked worldwide condemnation - showed US jailers humiliating inmates who were naked, hooded, on leashes or piled into a human pyramid.
Maj-Gen Taguba said that other material not yet publicly disclosed or mentioned in subsequent trials included a video showing "a male American soldier in uniform sodomising a female detainee". The first wave of images he received also included images of sexual humiliation between a father and his son.
The General said he was ordered to limit his inquiry into the conduct of military police at the jail even as he became convinced they had a green light from higher up. "Somebody was giving them guidance but I was legally prevented from further investigation into higher authority. I was limited to a box." He adds: "Even today ... those civilian and military leaders responsible should be held accountable."
The General also tells the New Yorker that he became a victim of his own dedication to finding the truth when he was subsequently forced to retire early. In early 2006, he said, he received a phone call from a higher-ranking colleague telling him he was expected to retire by January this year, after more than 30 years of service. His conclusion: he was being punished for that first investigation.
"They always shoot the messenger," Maj-Gen Taguba told Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker. "To be accused of being overzealous and disloyal - that cuts deep into me. I was being ostracised for doing what I was asked to do."
© 2007 Independent News and Media Limited
46 Comments so far
Show AllI haven't been happy with the Democrats of late; but they're still our best shot. Here's why: If the Democrats get into the White House and hold Congress, they will. let's hope, join the World Court. Then Bush and his cronies can be brought to trial on War Crime charges. Then tried for treason in the US. I'm not interested in revenge. What I want is for the world to know that by and large Americans are an honorable people who repudiate entirely the vile acts of this vilest of administrations.
Hi there NMBill Yeah it's true and I fear it will become worse, if that could be possible. A different subject, but if you get a chance, click on the article about China leading the race to pollute the atmosphere. It's in yesterday's issue. Read my brief blog and click on the website enclosed. We humans may have a chance of eleminating most of the fossil fuel emmisions after all, maybe even shut down a lot of the nuclear power plants. Pick a Pair aren't drivin that rig.
Evelyn Smith-they're in the drivers seat and have locked the doors.
I love that analogy!
Bush and his thugs should be held accountable and be brought up on charges of obstructing an ongoing investigation and covering it up. when Bush was selected by his father's friends on the supreme court as president, Bush said he was going to bring respect and integrity back into the white house. that's the biggest joke of the decade. as far as i'm concerned him and his thugs are bigger criminals than the mafia, including John Gotti. All his administration has done is lied and used his office to run a criminal organization and should be brought up under the RICO statute that is used to bring the mob to justice. Bush's lies have killed more than 3500 of American's finist soldiers and more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis, mostly women and children and then they hide the information and when Generals are assigned to investigate the crimes committed, Bush and his thugs throw the investigators to the dogs.But Bush's Karma will catch up to him and his thugs. In my opinion they should all be jailed for life without parole. In 80 percent of Europe and Asia consider Bush and his thugs international criminals wanted for crimes committed against humanity, like Hussain, Maloshivitz and others that haven't committed nearly the crimes Bush and his administration of thugs have committed. Hopefully soon it will catch up to them. If Bush is so gung ho about winning the Iraq war,he should send his daughters there to fight to show that he puts his money where his mouth is. but i'm not sure he could speak correctly and is a drunken, cocaine addicted idiot, that is so illiterate he can't even read a newspaper. someone has to read it to him. the ignorant americans who voted for him get what they deserve. hopefully he'll press the button and start a nuclear war and get rid of him and his co-harts. remember his words. "Mission accomplished and Bring them on." the pentagon is given 600 billion a year plus another 300 billion a year to fight the supposedly war on terroism. and we still can't beat them. they are fighting with homemade bombs and old rifles and they make us look like fools. and look what Bush has done to our country that once was considered a democracy. boy, that's a crock. He's made everyone a crook until we prove otherwise. just look when you go to fly and have to go thru security(big Joke). i never heard of another country that makes one take off there shoes and are treated like criminals. i guess the "terroists" have cost the American taxpayer about 2 trillion dollars and we are the joke of the rest of the world. and it's only gonna get worse. i think the americans that voted for Bush and his thugs are traitors to our way of living. they should be held accountable just as bush and his thugs. and the Republican party is now a cult, not a party. the best thing Bush can do now is blow up the world and start anew. he has gotten us into a hole that we can't get out of. good luck world.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it..."
Abraham Lincoln
The very first time I heard someon from the administration say that the "detainees" were not subject to the Geneva Conventions I was sure there would be "abu Ghraibs", "Gitmos" and black-op torture shops.
WHY ELSE would the administration make such a big issue of saying these "detainees" were not "prisoners of war" or subject to any sort of protection under law?
Anyone who has been through officer training in the past 15 years knows about the "Joint Forces Regulation for the Treatment of Enemy Prisoners of War, Retained Personnel, Civilian Internees and Other Detainees" because it was drilled into them from the very beginning of officer training. This 86 page document spells out treatment for ALL detainees under all circumstances... and it also says they are ALL subject to the Geneva Conventions.
Only a little clever word play by Gonzales and a few others in the administration made it sound otherwise.
Typical of these Nazis in the White House.
To "inri porter" and others who have nothing but praise for Taguba, here's a pertinent statement from the Marine general who was canned by Bush earlier this month:
"It is the absolute responsibility of everybody in uniform to disobey an order that is either illegal or immoral." General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Press Club, February 17, 2006.
When Taguba got the investigation assignment he knew it was "hot" and moved to protect all his staff from the expected fallout. If anyone was going to be crapped on, it'd be only himself. He clearly knew what he was getting into.
Later, he says, he was humiliated to his face by Rummy and by Rummy's army flunky Craddock; by Abizaid; and finally by Cody (#2 army general). But he wasn't pissed off enough to blow the whistle on all these criminals in 2004!
He uncovered gross dereliction of duty and criminality at every level, but except for Jordan, he filed no charges. It's not enough to chalk it up to his being a loyal army officer following orders, or respecting his oath to the Constitution. He saw the Constitution, the laws of the U.S. and military regulations being flaunted and violated by his superiors and former friends and comrades, and ducked his responsibility. If they hadn't forced him to retire ("..by January of 2007") he might never have been angry enough to come out to Hersh at all!
No, Taguba had his opportunity to protect the holy Constitution (the same one that institutionalized racism, class power and sexism) by disobeying orders and revealing everything he knew, but he muffed it.
I was in the military 17 years, 4 on active duty. I'm not anti-military. But the US ruling class couldn't make imperialism work for 5 minutes without the collaboration of an obedient military officer corps. Many in the military look the other way while horrors are committed in order to protect and further their own careers and relationships. Just like the cops at home. Talk about terrorism ...
One might even wonder what Gen. Peter Pace knew, and when he knew it.
"The truth shall set you free"
I am standing at the grave of the United States. Its birth certificate and epitaph--the shredded remains of the Constitution.
To everyone who's asking "Why didn't he come forward sooner?" I would guess that you haven't done time in the military, where it's drummed into you that insubordination is a species of treason. I know from experience that it takes a while to recover from a military career. If you wanna ask "Why? ask it of Colin Powell. That Taguba came forward as soon as he did is quite amazing. It took me 4 or 5 years on civvy-street to regain my sanity.
after all they have done, impeachment is not on the table? they will all walk. this will set a precedent for future administraitons, and they will all take advantage if there is no accountability. expect more of the same.
inri porter: You sure did not bore me, you told it like it is. A great read. I agree, HOPE never weeded my garden or accomplished anything else. It is just a nice four letter word. "I HOPE SO." A term that makes us feel better, that's all.
We want to save this nation and our constitution and our bill of rights, we'd better do more than hope, cause Bush and Cheney have hopes also, and they're in the drivers seat and have locked the doors.
I hope I live long enough to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and Feith standing trial in The Hague for crimes against humanity.
As a government employee, your "bound" to silence by certain rules put into place, until you retire, uless you want to throw it all away. And yes this Congress, which is now "lead" by the same people that were in the "last" Congress do not have the "statesmanship" to what's necessary and what they "promised" in the last election. They're hoping that the majority (who are more interested in crap, such as "American Idol")forget this and only listen to the few monthes before the next election. An example is the 3.8 million in "bonuses" to the VA's higher ups last year. If and (more likely never) when Congress "looks" into this thievery, as they say, it will be into the hundreds of millions a year, I've had the figures for years but could get know one in Washington to stop this embezzlement of taxpayers money, and it's been going on since 1998. What's happened to this story, it's gone by the way side already, old news.
The American president is the last one who knows about his army's abuses and tortures, this is wonderful!
What does the CIA do?
What does Mr Bush do?
This is unbelievable, it seemed for us that Mr bush knows what is happening around him in a hollistic way, but unfortunately this is not the case, it seems that he knows the prices of oil and gaz because these are his main interests.
"The General said he was ordered to limit his inquiry into the conduct of military police at the jail even as he became convinced they had a green light from higher up."
It shouldn't be too difficult to determine who issued the orders limiting the inquiry and to follow it up the chain of command.
inri porter spoke the word.
Am I missing something here? What is so praiseworthy about Shinseki? All he did was to disagree about the troop level saying we needed more troops to better screw and control the Iraqi people. Did he disagree with the attack plan itself? Did he say pre-emptive attack based on a bunch of lies is war crime and crime against humanity? He only proposed a more effective way to commit the crime. Get real people!
Something tells me I'm going to regret this, but here goes. Pardon me if I use acronyms and stuff that are kind of subject-peculiar in some parts of this, directed as indicated; other parts shall not be so encumbered.
First, to "BTW": GEN Shinseki is not hard to get ahold of, although he may well ignore you. Any letters sent to him, c/o OCSA, HQDA, Wash DC will get to him. What he is doing specifically, I don't know - but you can bet that he loses a lot of sleep over all this, just like you can bet that it churns his guts hard, and he re-hashes it over and over until he gets sick. OK? Now, about contemporaries and Zinni and that other general whose name begins with "M" (and whose full name I shall not use; I know people within the system and many outside the system -- su servidor, por ejemplo -- who think of him as a murderer, in addition to his other attributes [that is, he sucks ass]). Shinseki is their 'contemporary' only if you use the word to mean age-cohort...in which case anybody born between, say, '41 and '45 is their contemporary. Otherwise, no way. (1) Zinni is a Marine, and ALL Marines are so special that it is best only to compare them with other Marines, and besides that Zinni is a LTG while Shinseki and the murdering "M" are both GENs...that is, full generals. Murdering "M" is probably actually senior to Shinseki based on DOR, but it means nothing: Shinseki retired as CoS, and murdering "M" had a subordinate (and anticipated pre-retirement)command. He shot off his mouth and became Drug Czar, sank like a rock, and good riddance. Now he psychobates for TV, I hear, and that doesn't surprise me in the least. Cool so far?
GWAZDOR: Ouch. I frequently complain about the over-use and abuse of the word "hero", so your comment made me think harder. Thank you. I kind of think that I'm going to have to stick with it in this case, but I'll accept that it is a qualified use. He didn't just sacrifice his career: he sacrificed everything that he had lived for, including his father's ghost. I urge you to find a bio of the guy; he is fantastically gifted and, at every turn, he has run into a cruel racism. He has gotten nothing but dog-meat assignments, and in every one of them he excelled. He has some awards, yes, but NO decorations. None! A guy doesn't get to be an MG with no decorations unless he is just top notch. (Heroes...you know about "Pappy" Boyington? He used to say "Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum!", and he meant it. My personal experience is that there's a lot of truth in the statement, and Boyington knew what he was talking about: MOH, DFC, Navy Cross, PH, plus all the usual "been there" trinkets that impress ignorant civilians (but nobody else). As for heroes being "effective, bold, and timely..." we're just going to have to kind-of agree; that is not my personal experience of heroes...and I've known a lot of them, or a lot of people who were called that, anyway. And I've buried a bunch of them, too, now that I think about it. But yesterday I saw something that said that Kobe Bryan, whoever in hell that is, is a "basketball hero", and I've seen Ronny Ray-Gun described as a "hero", and JFK, too. Well, JFK sort of qualified, but really minor grade, no? Nobody has EVER called my little sister a "hero", but she sometimes operates on the hearts of new-born premature babies...pediatric cardio-vascular surgery...and if that doesn't take (among other things) courage, then what does?
And for those in general who carped that MG Taguba didn't speak up early enough, or waited for his $$$ (how tacky that comment was!) and those other posts in a similar vein: I'm sorry, folks, but it is a paradigm thing, a kind of a failure to understand the overweening obligations of The Oath. I'll tell you straight up: most of the people in this country make me think that having a couple of Purple Hearts is about the stupidest thing that you can do. That is, most of the folks around here are so f***ed up in their pointy little heads that they ain't worth getting a splinter in the pinky for, let alone getting your a** shot off. If people who serve did it for the people they serve, they'd quit soon enough, believe me. They do it not for the people but for the Constitution itself and for the hope (I hate that word!) that the Constitution embodies. Not, mind you, just for America, but for the Constitution as it was promulgated. You know, 'lamp for all mankind', all that high school civics stuff. Nothing, NOTHING is worse than having bound yourself to that document, that hope, and then having to suffer as it is sullied by wretches like W., Unca Dick, Rummy, u.s.w. It's a bear, folks, a bear: being caught between what the Constitution wants AND what the elected officials want. Being in that bind, all you can do is hope that the civilians...the voters, that is...take the Constitution seriously enough to defend it themselves. When they don't, that is what gets kids killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada, RVN, etc. Got that? Don't be so foolish as to think that the military is made up of dummies. There are thousands upon thousands who know things are screwed up, who know that Bush is a g** d*** loon who is doing his best to get them killed. They had a choice, and they made it: support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic. Few things are more bitter than knowing that the Commander in Chief is a domestic enemy; but what are they to do? The Oath is greater than they are. As f***ed up as things are, as f***ed up as they're gonna get (we ain't seen nuthin yet!)...all we have left, tattered or not, is that Constitution...and the folks like MG Taguba and 2.2 million others who just want to keep it together -- and get home in one piece.
My apologies for boring you, and I mean no insult to anybody. No more Purple Hearts for nobody, that's my motto of the day. Dog bless us, everyone.
The Bush Administration denies knowing what happened, and the Congress and Kerry campaign didn't much make a big deal of it.
What is the difference? One of style? Both lead to national insensitivity and amnesia. Both legitimize the unthinkable to the public.
Neither action nor lack of reaction does America any good.
Wake up, folks. This...mess we're in...is much worse than we are willing to admit. It will take some bold re-thinking and action to excape from this one with anything representing America still intact.
Paul Bransher is "right on" with his comments.
We as a nation are losing our direction and our integrity. And the dishonesty is not only in politics, its pervasive throughout many aspects of our society - the end justifies the means - winning is everything.
The operative question is: what strategy do we citizens put into place to recover our voice?
One possible answer is to take the big money out of the elections and publically fund congressional and presidential elections. The focus would be on issues rather than who is the best fundraiser and deliverer of pork. That would be a hell of a return on the investment!
The pictures didn't show the really bad stuff the administration had authorized. In an odd, or maybe not so odd coincidence, the release of these pictures and subsequent cover up and suppression of other information prevented a wider investigation and provided handy small time torturers and perverts to punish.
The really sick bastards got away with it including Bu$h the inferior, shotgun Dick, and Rummy.
The day I saw the Abu Ghraib photos, I decided that either (a) Bush & Co. were fully aware and therefore complicit sadists, breaking both US and international laws or (b) unaware and therefore guilty of dereliction of duty, inability to carry out their roles as commander in chief, CEO of the military, etc.
In either case they're unfit for duty and should be expelled by Americans if the apparently foreign government (the Democrats) we have in power are too weak-kneed to do what needs to be done to save face, democracy, any pretense of civilized behavior or decorum. Jail them, it's just that simple. When exactly did we develop an untouchable caste here?
Asking him to retire was very good advice.
Can you imagine what would have happened to him had he refused to do so?
At the hands of and with the known record of retribution that this government offers those who displease them?
Think "trial by Libby" and what he did to unknown secret agents that were known to have associated with the 'shady lady' he targeted.
Will he suffer for his service to 'the good of the order' ... NOT ... if all the truth of his unofficial fate is known. IMO, of course.
I don't think he's a hero just because he sacrificed his carreer - a career is small change compared to the sacrifice required to turn America around. A hero's actions need to be effective, bold, and timely. I agree that he has done some good things and should be commended, but the opportunity to be a hero passed him by soon after Rumsfeld testified - he's no Gandhi. Let's not use the term so lightly.
Earthian is correct. Seymour Hersh tells the story well on Democracy Now. No question Rumsfeld should be prosecuted for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity. Anyway, check out www.democracynow.org for the interview.
I agree with the several commenters that Taguba is "honorable and admirable" as BugsBBunnyIII put it. I consider him courageous. Regardless of timing of his full disclosure, he stood his ground and paid a career price. We cannot expect all to reach the standard demonstrated by Watada and a few others in the Iraq occupation and Mohammed Ali, Hugh Thompson and so many others in the Vietnam era. Here is a great interview with Hersh by Amy Goodman about Taguba:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/19/1433252
I agree with Bugsy. He was asked to do a job, and he really did it. Too well apparently. He is not a team player in terms of playing a game with the truth.
I read the article in the New Yorker, and this guy Taguba is a credit to the military and to our nation. I don't think it is fair to be hard on him.
He also understood quite clearly why this torture scandal was contradictory to what we are supposed to stand for as a nation, and he knew that it should have gone higher up, but he was "put in a box" as he said in the New Yorker article and unable to take where it should have gone and where he wanted to take it. Remember, he is a military man, and he followed orders and did what he could. Give the man credit.
He spent built a career by working hard and having integrity, and integrity is a killer when one has it and has to deal with the Bush administration that has none.
This man spoke out. He apparently did not do a whitewash and paid the price of honor. He is an honorable and admirable man for seeking the truth. That takes guts and you know he knew what he was doing. He says even today civilian and military higher ups should be held accountable. More guts. I hope he continues to speak up. That was the job they gave him ...to speak up on the abu ghraib situation and until those responsible are held accountable, the job ain't done yet. Thank you Gen. Taguba for your service and characteristic thoroughness ...in speaking up again ...in that interview.
@aldo:
In January of 2006, Taguba received a telephone call from General Richard Cody, the Army's Vice-Chief of Staff. "This is your Vice," he told Taguba. "I need you to retire by January of 2007."
This clip is copied from the original article, also available on this site - http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/17/1937/
I am thankful that someone is speaking out, but I agree that it is too little too late - and the timing is quite fortunate in that there are no real consequences, unless charges are brought in a war crimes tribunal.
Cheney argued in favor of torture! These are his words, ["We have to work through,sort of, the dark side." ] Is that so? Torture IS the dark side. What movies has he been watching, his job is not fiction and this is America.
When a person is tortured, what will they tell you? Anything you want to hear, be it true or false. It cannot be condoned, of course if one is a Christian who believes that witches should be burned, or that the inquestion was the right thing to do, well that is anther story. Ahh, I do not wish to believe what has happened to us, We're Americans. This is America___isn't it?
It is because of this that it is absolutely essential we impeach the whole administration. If we don't, we are acting as if these horrors don't matter. Not only that, we are doing so in front of the WHOLE WORLD WHICH IS FAR MORE AWARE OF OUR FAULTS THAN MOST OF US ARE. The whole planet will soon be aware of these facts; already suspects them.
To hell with political "realism" and "triangulation". Do you hear that Democrats? They must be impeached because it is the only way to diminish the giant stain on our national character, not to get them out of office - of course they will be gone in less than a year, so what?
There's nothing liar Bush and liar Rumsfeld regret about the Iraq war except for the pictures taken at Abu Ghraib which were revealed to the world. That's why they ordered no more cameras and no more pictures. They knew about the torture, and it's absurd for them to claim they were out of the loop. The same thing is going on at Guantanamo, and they know it.
It's incredible that they've gotten away with so many war crimes. I doubt very much there will be any difference with Hillary or Obama as president as they're both Israel's lapdogs.
I bet Rumsfield not only knew, but was personally there greasing the MP's poles with KY for the buggery sessions, the dity old fascist pervert.
"The White House issued a response denying the claim, however. 'The President said over three years ago that he first saw the pictures of the abuse on the television,' Scott Stanzel, a spokesman, said."
"The President said . . . ". That enough should be sufficient to prove the contrary.
How does a Secretary of Defense manage anyway to not know what is going on in the military when such grave violations of international law are occuring? Never did make sense but, of course, the guy knows how to be competently incomptetent when it's a matter of tellng the truth.
Yeah, ACT! So many are trying to be heard you've got to believe sooner or later the American public will be overheard by somebody in Congress!
Really? Bush and Rumsfeld knew? Go onnnnn ...
Let me make this clear if it isn't already obvious, many have known of the extent of the criminal actions of this so-called government for a long time.
So fucking what?
I can't get excited anymore when any re-hashed revelation comes out about the horror chamber of people we have occupying the White House and Congress.
Stop talking about all these crimes and INDICT SOMEONE!!!
We KNOW there's been torture, murder, rape, genocide, theft of billions, corruption and graft. We can see it every day. If we're not the direct victim of it, it touches our lives.
So, please, not one more word. ACT!
BTW:
it's been a mystery to me for 5 years where Shinseki Is. while other generals suc as Zinni and McCaffrey have spoken out and they were contemporaries of Shinseki, i have not heard a peep from him. In fact he could make millions by telling us how he arrived at the 500,000 figure, and what arguments did the the neo-crazies such as Wolfie who opposed use him to convince the rank and file (the hundreds of captains, majors, colonels - - the people who actually do the command and control on the ground) agree with a non-military idiot who didn't know butt from barrel?
Any ideas folks?
Would it have made any difference if he spoke up at the time? Numerous lies and acts of incompetence have come to light over the years, yet Bush is still in power, nothing has changed, in fact even more funding has been approved despite all that has happened. I fear that there is no limit to which this administration can sink and still be untouched. Rumsfield will have a peaceful, rich retirement so will the other war criminals, there is no Justice in the world today, if we ever thought there was then we were just fooled like everyone else. Right or Wrong doesn't seem to matter any more only power.
And who os this higher-ranking colleague? can we put name instaed of grade. Lets start to put names and faces behind those action.
Seems to me only one General spoke out before all of this ( General Shinseki) and the die was cast " Speak out and you are OUT"! Now they get out before they speak out! $$$
Yes, this is too little too late. Why didn't he release the other evidence back then. Three years later he decides torture is bad? No, he didn't say anything until his superiors forced him to resign.
"In early 2006, he said, he received a phone call from a higher-ranking colleague telling him he was expected to retire by January this year, after more than 30 years of service. His conclusion: he was being punished for that first investigation."
I wonder if anyone in Congress reads Seymour Hersh's articles?
Hersh has written a number of exposes and nothing happens in Congress, no follow up by our elected Representatives. This will not get a Congressional investigation, Taguba like Shinseki were not listened to and are not going to be listened to.
Will the U.S. survive this fiasco? Probably the U.S. will "survive" but with the Patriot Act in place and more laws in place to slide into a fascist state that it's becoming.
Saila, it's the same for whistle blowers in every walk of life, they dont "whistle" until they have nothing to lose personally.
Rumsfeld in now gone and Mr Tagoba is also retired. It's funny how people suddenly become courageous when they don't have much to lose. Mr Taguba should have opened his mouth when Rumsfeld was still in office. I guess after Bush is gone Mr Taguba will say that he had indisputable evidence that Bush had personally ordered the tortures. What good does it do then?
Now...this guy IS a hero: and there are always too few of them. I'm not too sure that our Nation will ever recover from this debacle -- I'll bet 5 bucks that we don't -- but if we do, it will in large part be because of the moral courage of people like GEN Shinseki and MG Taguba. If we could just clone them, we'd have 3500+ American kids still alive, and Dog alone knows how many Iraqis would still be breathing. An empty dream, but sometimes a good dream is all you get. Thanks, General Taguba!
Grumgler:
"Let's hope"? Are you telling me this is a matter of sitting back until Novermber '08 then hoping? Did winning then hoping get you an end to war funding?
On of the great successes of this Duopolist corporate-driven regime is how well they have brain-washed most of the public to believe the remedy is in the grasp of the "other" party. So we sit on our hands, and some of us hope. Just where they want us.
No, no. Stop fooling yourselves already. It is US that will change it if it happens at all. There ain't no Democrat on a white horse ridin' into town tellin' the corporations where their limits are and putting their shills on trial.
Elections may still count a little, but only thinking, reacting active citizens, organizing around a new people-centered narrative will turn this Ship of State around. This country as seen by some of the evidence brought up by Taguba has been out of control for quite some time, off limits off the rails, heading into dangerous territory, a place where the US Constitution is just a piece of paper and the Geneva Conventions are quaint. Have you heard a word of this brought up as a serious accusation in the halls of Congress? I don't want to hear any of that BS about having or not having a majority. In other countries tiny minority parties speak out and organize people arouind a new agenda.
"Democrats our best shot"? Ha! Yeah, a shot in the head! Wake up, we've been had. The Dems job is to keep us quiet and not complain about all the illegal abuse in evidence everywhere. They live and pass on the Fear, rather than fight against it.