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President George W. Bush: Torturer
Waterboarding is one of the most cruel torture techniques, used in many countries worldwide. The technique has been practiced, among others, by the Spanish Inquisition and by the French paratroopers in Algeria. It has been also used by American soldiers in Vietnam and by the British Army in Northern Ireland.
During waterboarding, the subject is immobilized keeping his back with the head inclined downwards. Water is then poured over the face and then it goes into breathing passages and triggers a reflex causing the subject to experience the sensation of drowning. CIA officers who volunteered to experience the technique have lasted an average of 14 seconds before capitulating.
Although there is some discrepancy on the legality on the use of this technique, there is no discrepancy on its consequences. "Waterboarding or mock drowning, where a prisoner is bound to an inclined board and water is poured over his face, inducing a terrifying fear of drowning clearly can result in immediate and long-term health consequences. As the prisoner gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive, with all the physiologic and psychological responses expected, including an intense stress response, manifested by tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and gasping for breath. There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water. Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD," declared Dr. Allen Keller, director of the Bellevue/NYU Program for Survivors of Torture, at the Hearing on U.S. Interrogation Policy and Executive Order 13440, to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
There are also questions about the effectiveness of waterboarding as a torture technique. "It is bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture is bad enough," said former CIA officer Robert Baer. Several other former CIA officers have the same point of view.
Former President George W. Bush and officials in his administration such as former vice-president Dick Cheney and former attorney general John Ashcroft have stated, since leaving office, that they don't consider waterboarding to be torture. However, Senator John McCain, who has some personal experience on this issue, has stated unequivocally that he considers waterboarding to be torture.
"I would have no problems with describing this practice as falling under the prohibition for torture," stated Louise Arbour, former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. And she also stated that violators of the UN Convention Against Torture should be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction.
Former president George W. Bush insists in his book that waterboarding is not torture, but it is just one of a number of "enhanced interrogation techniques." This point of view is not shared by officials within the British government, who agree with President Barak Obama that water boarding constitutes torture, and has banned the used of such practice.
Former president Bush said that waterboarding is "highly effective" and added that its use provided "large amounts of information." Although former president Bush has no regrets in having authorized the use of torture, Douglas Johnson, executive director of the Center for Victims of Torture, declared, "This cavalier attitude by the President who authorized torture in violation of US and international law not only damages our nation's credibility throughout the world, but also discourages global cooperation to combat terrorism."
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51 Comments so far
Show AllYet here in America we are treated to this freaking war criminal being trotted out on every talk show venue and getting tossed softballs by the likes of Matt Lauer and The View - looking at you Jon Stewart w/ Condi.
If Hitler breathed today we would get to hear his "rehabilitation" story on Oprah, Larry King talk about what he did to calm his nerves in the bunker and Jake Tapper breathlessly ask him if he has any plans to run again for elected office.
And the best part is if anybody ever asks Bush a somewhat pointed question this freaking murderer gets pissed that someone obliquely calls him on his sh*t.
Awww, wook a da cute widdle psychopath!!! He's weawy, weawy sowwy for what he's done! But not weawy he'd do it all again!!!! What weadership!!!
Awww, a former drunk?!! How adorable!!!
edit for typo
"If Hitler breathed today we would get to hear his "rehabilitation" story on Oprah, Larry King talk about what he did to calm his nerves in the bunker and Jake Tapper breathlessly ask him if he has any plans to run again for elected office."
Over the last several years I keep wondering how our current media would react if/when a Hitler rises up in our political system. It would seem quit plausible to me that that Matt Lauer would quite dispassionately interview the Amerikan Nazi politician on the merits of the detention of liberals, Moslems, and other "illegals" in concentration camps. (Officially called Freedom Camps or FCs).
Of course because times are tough, these enemies of the state must be "humanely put down" or HPD'd, after a period of time if no other country would take them in. Matt would earnestly ask, "Is this legal?" "Of course it is!" the Amerikan Nazi would say, we have many lawyers that say it is. (Everything the party does is legal, that goes without saying.) The Nazi would explain it really is the only humane thing to do, and we can all rest assured the HPDs will be going to a better place. He then asks the audience at home to join him in a moment of silence to pray for their souls, even though as enemies of the state they really don't deserve it.
Matt would nod in agreement at the answers he was given, always displaying that concerned look he spent so much time perfecting. He would then thank the Nazi for taking time out of his busy day for the interview.
After the show Matt would go on-line to be sure his paycheck and party kickback got deposited OK so his family could buy that vacation home at the beach they always wanted. Several very nice properties had recently gone on the market since their previous owners had either been detained in one of the local area FCs, or already HPD'd.
Although Matt felt a bit guilty about profiting from someone else's misfortune, he quickly rationalized away the guilt by concluding if he didn't buy that beach house, someone else would.
Of course this is strictly some crazy fiction, that was spun out of my wildly out of control imagination. We all know if/when an Amerikan Nazi party ever tries to rise to power, Matt and the other mainstream "journalists" will do the right thing, risk their fat paychecks, speak truth to power, and fight any Nazi attempted take over of the good old USofA...
Exactly. I was a Hitler Youth for two years and all I can add is that this is not just about the torture and the concentration camps but about going to war. Just as Bush was itching to create an illegal war (because he always wanted to and as he said: it is good for the economy and getting more presidential power) -- we were told in those days that we were defending the fatherland - we were not aggressors. None of these war criminals are ever aggressors. So now we have another president bombing ever more countries and when will people catch on the we are the aggressors ?
What part of Nancy Pelosi's first words as House Speaker in 2006 didn't you understand?
Perhaps I need to repeat them for you..."Impeachment is off the table".
She might as well have said that Team Dubya's license to steal (and murder) has no expiration date.
A very depressing day, indeed!
"So now we have another president bombing ever more countries and when will people catch on the we are the aggressors ?"
Anyone who gets their news from the mainstream media will probably never conclude that because that idea is never even presented. "They hate us for our freedoms", "Support the troops", "We must fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here", etc. Our propaganda system is so effective yet subtle Im guessing it would make Goebbels feel like he was an rank amateur.
So as someone who has lived through Fascism once, what his your educated guess on how things will play out for the US in the upcoming years? I'm always very interested in hearing from people with real life experiences like yours.
Thanks
Tom
Unfortunately my life experience sees us going down the same road. If I saw any hopeful signs anywhere that the oligarchy would allow things to change - maybe I would feel less sad. They just don't allow ideas for change into the system. In Germany it was total control of the media, here it is just controlled by the corporatist interest -- to the same effect. Even our current president who talks a good talk sometimes - acts in the "more of the same" mode.
So, having lost our constructive work with the earth by doing things for ourselves - we are in a world wide race for disappearing natural resources. As proved lately, our only product is export of weapons. So the religious right wing gets its highway to Armageddon. The struggle for resources will pretty much assure totalitarian control everywhere. And as demonstrated during my youth, when real trouble starts, people will support anyone who will assert total control.
Excellent comment.
Maybe the reading on American monetary currency
should be changed from the hypocritical
In God We Trust to In Guns We Trust.
shipley,
Thanks for getting back to all of us. Getting the opinion of somebody that had a front row seat to that part of the worlds history is very important. If the US does go down the road that 1930s Germany did, I hope it happens after you leave this earthly realm. No body should have to go through something like twice in a lifetime.
WWII did not destroy Fascism any more than president/clown RR destroyed Communism. Nor did it teach the free world how to combat despotism--in fact it sends the wrong message, that might makes right, the country with the biggest bombs wins. What WWII DID do is provide valuable information to the M/I complex on how to succeed next time--this time. The battle plan the US is carrying out for corporate profit began to be drafted before the ink on the WWII peace treaties was dry. Obama would have a better chance trying to derail a speeding locomotive single-handed than stopping the Imperial expansion of "American" interests.
Funny you should mention Hitler being interviewed on modern corporate media teevee.
Back when Garrison Keillor still had the bite and edge to write political satire, he published a hilarious piece about Amerika's zeal for rehabilitating scoundrels. I can't remember the title, but IIRC it's included in a collection entitled "We Are Still Married".
He writes at one point that "America is a big two-hearted forgiving country."
The most memorable passage presented a hypothetical view of Hitler surviving into the present (c. 1990), and appearing on Amerika's morning talk teevee shows to flog his newly-published memoirs! It is eerily similar to the current Dubya book tour.
Keillor gets it exactly right-- the Amerikan masses spooning cornflakes and munching toast look up to see a self-assured, even distinguished, white-haired Hitler easily fielding questions about his unfortunate past.
"Hitler" adroitly circumvents expressing guilt or taking responsibility by uttering faux-philosophical rejoinders, e.g., "Well, Katie, that was a long time ago... life is beautiful, and nowadays I'm more concerned with making the most out of each day..."
I haven't re-read that Keillor piece in years, but it explains the déjà vu I experience over Dubya On Parade. It's funny because it's true!
Actually, he is not sorry. He said it clearly that he wouldn't apologize because he has nothing to apologize for. He also believes that apologizing gives the wrong impression.
For this alone, as well as the continued use of torture and abduction, the US Government must be held accountable for the commission of Crimes Against Humanity.
Non Serviam - I will not serve.
peacekeepertwo: Torture is the way you Increase the body count of Enemy dead. As in Vietnam you tell your enemy to give to give you the names of people, who will die in his or her place. The Pentagon can't War funding unless they can prove the really do Kill People. War has never been about right and wrong,its always about killing and Power.
Whenever Tony Bliar was asked about torture, or for that matter Condoleeza Rice, Bush, Cheney, in the past, they always denied it. Then I saw an interview involving some Stanford University students and Condoleeza Rice. She talked about "enhanced interrogation" methods - torture. She was asked about how we in the West, particularly the US, can hold itself up as some shining beacon of justice, if we break international law. She then showed her true colours, by replying that you had to be there on 9/11, to see bodies falling from the 80th floor.
I am afraid that the US, backed by the UK and other "weak" puppet states, used 9/11 to excuse any subsequent actions, and more importantly any wars and slaughter which they engaged in.
This is very similar to the tactics used by Israel. Whenever questioned about any atrocities they commit, they simply refer to the Holocaust, in a vain attempt to make the questioner feel a sense of guilt for their temerity in asking.
The US/UK/France/Israel, can never be trusted to be fair, broker peace or be involved in any meaningful or honest discussions on a World stage.
Funny how that works, huh?
It's almost like 9/11 provided a convenient excuse for anything - an excuse that no one can ever admit was manufactured.
Why?
What with the blood now on everyone's hands due to the consequential wars after 9/11, the torture, the domestic surveillance and above all THE MONEY made off these adventures springing from 9/11 - no one could ever possibly seek another investigation.
Everyone had to get themselves dirty on 9/11 - be it through illegal wars, war crimes theft, murder, etc - so that all the actors could be sure that no one would rat.
Tsk tsk, looks like we're all complicit now, huh?
It's a classic Tarantinoesque Mexican standoff involving blackmail instead of guns.
In closing, I've come to the conclusion over the years that a key determinant in deciding whether a person is serious about fixing this country, planet, etc is if they believe the "official story" of 9/11 or not.
There's no conceivable way events on that day happened as they have been explained.
None.
However, it's not incumbent upon us to fill out the whole story, rather it's simply our job to know we've been lied to again and again and again.
That the reality our leaders have tried to manufacture is a murderous fantasy.
This is the first important step everyone must truly take before progress can occur.
This is what I've said for years. The "New Pearl Harbor" that the PNAC neo-cons pined for, planned, perpetrated (or, most certainly aided and abetted) must be finally debunked. And, we must not take 50 years to do so, like the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident' used to escalate the atrocities in Viet Nam.
Until and unless the Truth about what occurred on Sept.11, 2001 is made clear, an unfortunate majority of Americans can continue to be controlled by the fear of another 'attack' by Muslims or any entity the Powers that Be care to use for their propaganda.
Thank you AndyUK for recalling the Rice interview. I saw the interview, too. I remember sitting, mouth agape, watching her slide around the issue.
I also remember that Rice was shoe-shopping in an expensive store in Manhattan when Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, and the levies broke in New Orleans. Rice didn't understand the necessity to return to D.C. Customers in the store recognized her and confronted her -- they were horrified that she was buying shoes, while New Orleans drowned.
The whole Bush gang was a gang of sociopaths. Birds of a feather and all that . . ..
For those interested in joining an ecumenical movement against torture
http://www.nrcat.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=485&Itemid=343
Waterboarding IS torture, according to the Geneva Conventions. Glenn Greenwald has written about this issue countless times, and he has criticized NPR, and other media outlets as well, for failing to name waterboarding as an act of torture. "Enhanced interrogation techniques" is the phrase most often used as the euphemism. Shameful! However, our elected and appointed officials have, long ago, thrown the rule of law out the window. So much for the Constitution that is touted as being this country's guiding light in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
"If the president does it, that means it's not illegal.” Richard Nixon to David Frost, April 6, 1977.
I still think, after all these years, that Nixon's pardon was one of the worst acts of a president (Gerald Ford) in this country. Of course, there are other acts, etc., that we could argue about, but my point is that this act of pardoning Richard Nixon set a precedent that supports the statement Richard Nixon arrogantly declared on that fateful day in 1977. Today, as John Dean has written, the unending acts of the "Executive Branch" are "worse than Watergate."
The ruling class of this country changes the rules whenever it suits them -- I'm reminded of the case in Colorado, where a judge didn't want to "spoil" the career of a Morgan Stanley investment banker who in a hit-and-run almost killed a man on a bicycle, and is walking away, so far, unscathed. Martin Joel Erzinger, the investment banker, rammed cyclist Dr. Steven Milo on July 3, 2010 with his car -- evidently, investment bankers trump doctors in real value; we already knew that "we the people" didn't matter one whit to them. The felony charges that had been filed were dropped by District Attorney Mark Hurlbert, who was the prosecutor.
Following is a petition that addresses the issue:
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/da_mark_hurlbert_dont_drop_felony_charges_against_hit-and-run_wealth_manager
I'm also reminded that a 22-year-old man, Trevor Chase, who lives in Lincoln, NE, waterboarded his girlfriend, who he thought might be cheating on him. The story broke on October 29, 2010. He has been charged with a crime, assault. Chase bound and gagged the woman, covered her face and poured water over her face. I can't help but conclude that this "assault" in Lincoln is a direct result of the casual attitude that U.S. government officials have taken toward this crime against humanity. First, by George W. Bush and his cohorts and their torture memos, and then, with the complicity of the Obama administration.
Of course, Mike Johanns, the Republican senator from Nebraska, voted against closing the "rape loophole" when Al Franken proposed his "anti-rape amendment" to the Department of Defense Appropriations Act in February of this year. 30 Republican senators opposed closing the loophole. All of these actions by our elected and appointed officials, and inactions, spill out into our communities, with devastating consequences for "we the people."
The US prosecuted the Japanese after WWII for torturing our troops via water-boarding. Details are at this link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
" Just sayin' ", puts up internet hands and shrugs...
I know -- NC-Tom. Thanks for adding this information to the forum. U.S. officials are, as so many of us are aware, complete hypocrites.
"There are also questions about the effectiveness of waterboarding as a torture technique. "It is bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture is bad enough," said former CIA officer Robert Baer. Several other former CIA officers have the same point of view."
>Sigh<
I don't know why even well intentioned writers with killer headlines pointing the finger directly where it should be pointed can't keep this stuff straight.
The quoted paragraph implies--we hope unintentionally--that there ARE effective torture techniques.
The message any sane and moral person would be careful to convey is, and ever shall be, only thus: TORTURE IS ALWAYS WRONG IN EVERY CASE REGARDLESS OF ITS EFFECTIVENESS.
That is, after all, our own position in the Geneva Conventions.
Sorry to shout, but you write carelessly on grave matters, like William Burroughs' Dr. Benway, performing surgery stoned on heroin, smoking a cigarette--
Holy crap, can't believe I missed that one.
In one sense, that is in the Bush Cheney Yoo Bybee alternate universe, the phrase you quote is correct, although again any decent writer (in every sense) would take pains to point out that there is no LEGITIMATE dispute---
But killer headline, eh?
President George W. Bush: Escaped criminal on the loose. Why is his face not plastered in post offices around the country? Perhaps a large reward should be offered so that someone can make a citizens arrest against this chickenhawk and torturer enabler.
Indeed! Jail this POS.
Interesting concept.
Has anyone printed up wanted posters in the FBI format and added them to the post office displays for any of the other known war criminals?
Of course if you did that, when you were caught, you would be punished far more than the war criminals will ever be.
Today's talking faces -- so-called journalists--would probably have had tea with Pol Pot or Stalin and made a pleasant interview out of it. I just can't imagine sitting there interviewing an unrepentant--no, make that proud--war criminal and treating him with presidential respect and dignity, neither of which he deserves or ever did deserve in the slightest.
The Rich War Criminal Walks Among Us. He sells his book full of lies and excuses, all designed to make him look like he is not the piece of shit that he truly is. He is a vile contemptable little man ... not little in physical stature, but small and withered in his soul. He is a coward of the worst kind, a deserter, and a traitor to his country. What do you expect from the grandson of Hitler's banker?
"The Rich War Criminal Walks Among Us. He sells his book full of lies and excuses, all designed to make him look like he is not the piece of shit that he truly is."
A friend turned on the interview and I yelled essentially the same thing to the TV and left the room. What a vile creature. But, in his defense, he is merely a product of the culture that spawned him--it's in the minds of the people who vote for sh-t like GW where the vileness starts.
G.W.Bush says Waterboarding = Enhanced Interrogation Technique.
Which proves:
Ivy League M.B.A.= Enhanced Orwellian Double-Speak
Examples:
Firing tons of people = Repositioning company for growth
National Security = Unlimited growth for MIC
Faith-based Initiative = Charter Schools for the wealthy
Economic Growth = The rich get richer
Democracy = Plutocracy
Freedom = Debtor nation
Patriotism = Hate and Indifference
Just a small sampling.
Oops! First example should read
Repositioning company for growth = Firing tons of people.
The Bush administration started the ball rolling by asking many members of the Justice Dept. to write opinions about the use of torture. They recieved about 30 different opinions from various lawyers who worked there. Of those, 2 supported [Bybee and Yoo] its use, the rest opposed it as criminal and/or immoral because the UN Convention Against Torture [ratified by Ronald Reagan in 1987] and because Title 18, Part I, Chapter 113C of the US Code , both clearly make its use under any circumstances illegal. As we now know the Bush admin. cherry picked the two opinions by Bybee and Yoo because they fit the Bush's preconceived agenda.
Water boarding isn't a new thing, its use has been documented in numerous cases for centuries. After WWII, for instance, the US held war crimes trails, found Japanese officers guilty of torture for their use of water boarding and executed some of them. During the Viet Nam era the US put American soldiers on trail as torturers for using water boarding, they were found guilty and received stiff sentences. Those were the good old days when right and wrong, illegal and effective, immoral and expedient were understood as opposites. Now things are different, as times have changed, as the framing of the torture debate has been allowed to change, whatever is useful has become right. Team Bush tortured the 'terrorists' at Gitmo, at Abu Ghraib, in Bagram and who knows how many secret off shore CIA prisons. In my opinion, they undountedly created far more enemies for the US than they stopped.
Along came newly elect team Obama fresh off his election campaign where he vowed to prosecute those responsible for torture on numerous occasions. Obama's framing of the issue during the campaign was one of morality and legality. But once he was elected he allowed the former VP Cheney to re-frame the question throughout the media to one of necessity and effectiveness. Obama, a well trained Harvard lawyer, must have understood immediately the repercussions of letting Cheney's expediency framing go unchallenged. He remained silent, that was his moment, on the torure issue, to draw a line in the sand between right and wrong and he chickened out. Neither Obama nor Holder has ever held the Bush administration or their lawyers accountable. Obama and Holder's decision makes them accessories after the fact to those war crimes. History will not judge any of them well. Nor will it look kindly on all who've remained silent.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ - Edmund Burke
Mass murderer bush WAS NEVER ELECTED ! Democracy has been dead/ dying, en amerika for a long time. 2 stolen elections were nails in democracy's coffin. The hard truth that nothing is done to bring to justice, war criminals bush/cheney, yes, obomber and his lackeys too; that IS a large part of why the fascist amerikan empire IS collapsing from within !
Regardless of whether he was "elected", people still voted for him. Of course, I realize that if the Republican party ran a pig for president, 20% of the voters would still vote Republican, but still--the guy lied us into a prolonged war and made torture the American Way--who in their right minds thought voting for his second term was a good thing?
I see that Amnisty International is calling for George W. Bush to be brought to trial for authorizing torture. Obama should be brought to trial if he doesn't bring Dubya to book. These International Treaties that the US signed have the force of law, our law, behind them. Is there nothing left but gangsters in our government?
try a genocidal moron of the worst kind.
In American culture image is everything. Politicians understand this very well. In order to survive the political meat grinder process in being electable among the many things they misunderstand (economics to name but one), the merchandising process of branding themselves as marketable in American politics is not one of them. This is why G.W. Bush (Torture? So what?) flaunts his fraudulent tough-guy persona with impunity and Obama has no qualms in disenfranchising a progressive agenda during his tenure. Bill Clinton understood this very well as he opted to triangulate his political strategy in selling out working Americans in having to settle for Wallmart wages and dwindling employee (health) benefits.
If you are to survive the chopping block of national politics you MUST NOT come across as weak on Defense(War and its machinery) or allow yourself in being branded a Socialist. Both are political non-starters for political aspirants in the Corporatocracy. If you can do that and sell your soul enough times over to the moneyed interests which dominate elections in this country you are on your way to serve the interests of USA Corp. at the expense of sanity and everyone else. The big plantation has never really gone away it just re-brands itself. After all the biggest factor in getting people to believe something is their desire to believe in something. With a ready and willing pool of buyers who needs the truth?
I would add that is highly unlikely that one will see, at least in the foreseeable future, any American politician daring to say anything critical of the state of Israel. The chance that a candidate running for office in the United States will ever support and advocate a boycott and sanctions against Israel are probably slim to none.
"Former president George W. Bush insists in his book that waterboarding is not torture"
then we should be free to waterboard W to get the truth.
I'll bring the bucket of old piss.
Is there not a US law about not letting a criminal profit by publishing his crimes?
first the criminal needs to be convicted.
"President George W. Bush: Torturer"
President George W. Bush: aSShole
capitalism
violence
liars
thieves
media is god
george bush the son of god
In a just an perfect world... what the hell am I talking about? In a just and perfect world this kind of thing wouldn't happen. Oh, but I digress. My point was that it would be perfect poetic justice to take Bush and Dick and Odumbo too, no sense in splitting up the Three Stooges, put a hood over their heads, shove 'em in a cargo plane and drop them in the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan.
Oh, yeah, and keep a hidden camera rolling to tape the show and pass it on to future generations.
No hope left. Good! Time for action is now. Do something. Anything. Pick up the trash in front of your house. Clean up that river. Plant fruit and nut trees. Landscape. Plant flowers. Just do it! Time to work on the garden of eden. The old world is destroyed with the construction of a new world. Start a foot at a time.
Obama is a torturer too.