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Egypt's 'People's Revolution' Refuses US-Led Concessions
Pro-democracy protests continue at Tahrir Square, a day after government held talks with opposition to end turmoil.
Pro-democracy protesters are continuing their sit-in in Cairo's Tahrir (Liberation) Square for the fourteenth consecutive day, showing no signs of being appeased by talks held a day earlier between the government and opposition groups.
Millions of Egyptians have taken to the streets in Cairo, Alexandria and other cities in the past weeks. No fear in naming those they hold responsible either. Their ire ends not with Hosni Mubarak, but extends to the entirety of his repressive regime, including Omar Suleiman, for whom the US has expressed support. (Dylan Martinez/Reuters)
People seeking President Hosni Mubarak's immediate ouster were still camped out in the square on Monday while life was slowly getting back to normal in other parts of the Egyptian capital following a fortnight of turmoil.
A symbolic funeral procession was also held in the square for a journalist killed by a sniper during the unrest. The procession was led by the journalist's wife and daughter. UN says at least 300 people were killed in the violence during the period.
An Al Jazeera correspondent said traffic in the streets was increasing while businesses were beginning to reopen.
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Click here for more on Al Jazeera's special coverage |
"There's a lot of popular public sentiments in Cairo and wider Egypt regarding what those protesters are trying to achieve but at the same time, people are trying to get back to live as normal lives as possible," he said.
"But some of the shopping malls for example are still closed because they're afraid of looting, and the banks yesterday were only open for a few hours."
Tanks continue to guard government buildings, embassies and other important institutions in the city.
Meanwhile, an Al Jazeera online producer, reporting from the square, said relations between the protesters and the troops had been turning tense.
On Sunday night, troops stationed near the famed Egypt Museum had briefly opened fire. Tensions also rose when soldiers attempted to reinforce a barbed wire fence, which the protesters resisted. Agitated protesters staged a sit-in and two of them were detained.
Egypt has been in upheaval since January 25, when protesters took to the streets seeking Mubarak's immediate resignation.
Omar Suleiman, the country's newly appointed vice-president, began meetings with six opposition groups on Sunday, including the banned Muslim Brotherhood (MB), in an attempt to end the crisis.
'People's revolution'
But Salma El-Tarzi, an activist in Tahrir Square, told Al Jazeera that she was indifferent to the talks.
"The political parties can do whatever they please because they don't represent us," she said.
"This is not a revolution made by the parties. The parties have been there for 30 years and they've done nothing. This is the people's revolution."
Some analysts have called the Muslim Brotherhood's participation in the dialogue a major concession. The group had initially refused to participate in any negotiations unless Mubarak resigns.
But Essam El-Erian, a member of the MB, Egypt's largest opposition group, told Al Jazeera that it has to participate "in any dialogue that can meet the demands of the people".
"This process can encourage more people to be added to protesters in Tahrir Square and all over the country. We've gone to the dialogue to enforce the revolution ... to add more pressure on Mubarak and his regime to leave."
However, another member of the movement played down the meeting, saying the MB is not prepared to drop its central demand of calling for Mubarak to resign as president.
"We cannot call it talks or negotiations. The Muslim Brotherhood went with a key condition that cannot be abandoned ... that he [Mubarak] needs to step down in order to usher in a democratic phase," Abdul Moneim Aboul Fotouh told Al Jazeera.
Reforms pledged
According to a statement from Suleiman's office following the meeting, the government offered to form a committee to examine proposed constitutional amendments, pursue allegedly corrupt government officials, "liberalise" media and communications and lift the state of emergency in the country when the security situation was deemed to be appropriate.
But Fotouh said the government had failed to take concrete measures on the ground.
"If they were serious, the parliament would have been dissolved, also a presidential decree ending the emergency law".
Egypt has been under emergency rule since 1981, the year Mubarak assumed power.
The political parties can do whatever they please because they don't represent us. This is not a revolution made by the parties. The parties have been there for 30 years and they've done nothing. This is the people's revolution.
Barack Obama, the US president, made new remarks on the political situation in Egypt after the meeting. He told the US television network Fox that Egyptians would not permit a repressive government to fill the Mubarak void, adding that the Muslim Brotherhood is only one faction in Egypt.
"But here's the thing that we have to understand, there are a whole bunch of secular folks in Egypt, there are a whole bunch of educators and civil society in Egypt that want to come to the fore as well.
"So it's important for us not to say that our own only two options are either the Muslim Brotherhood or a suppressed people."
Our correspondent in Cairo said the pro-democracy protesters were still not pleased with Obama's stance on the crisis.
"Protesters tell me Obama still hasn't come up with any statement that they want to hear," he said.
"They want immediate change and the feeling among many of them is that the way US is handling this crisis is not good for the way America is perceived both here and in general in the wider region."
98 Comments so far
Show AllIt appears, the Egyptians have been double-crossed one two many times and distrust anything Mubarak, as they should. Although I personally believe that the game is very much over and the people have lost again, there are other things at stake right now such as personal safety of the protesters and they have every reason to be afraid and distrust anything their government says. While the revolt stirred up things in Israel, right now, they are very quiet and reassured, a sure sign that the danger has passed and it's business as usual in Egypt.
Here's one of the little tricks that "hope you can believe in Obama" has tried to pull out of his hat:
"US envoy's business link to Egypt"
Obama scrambles to limit damage after Frank Wisner makes robust call for Mubarak to remain in place as leader.
Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.
Mr Wisner's astonishing remarks – "President Mubarak's continued leadership is critical: it's his opportunity to write his own legacy" – shocked the democratic opposition in Egypt and called into question Mr Obama's judgement, as well as that of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
The US State Department and Mr Wisner himself have now both claimed that his remarks were made in a "personal capacity". But there is nothing "personal" about Mr Wisner's connections with the litigation firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government's behalf in Europe and the US". Oddly, not a single journalist raised this extraordinary connection with US government officials – nor the blatant conflict of interest it appears to represent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/revealed-us-envoys-business-link-to-egypt-2206329.html
The Egyptians just got change they can believe in.
The idea that Wisner's remarks were made in a personal capacity is ridiculous. As the US envoy to Egypt, ANYTHING that Wisner says about Egypt is NOT personal, and CANNOT be personal.
"Tanks continue to guard government buildings, embassies and other important institutions in the city."
Until institutions are seized there is no revolution.
Wisner is a stalking horse for Israel, which can buy off corrupt regimes like Uncle Abbas' and Hosni's, but could not buy off a new and democratic Egypt that reflected the popular will, to wit, that this largest Arab state align itself with the teeming masses across the Arab world and form a front against Israel, or at least quit making headlong concessions to this settler state.
Yes, I agree the game is over as I watch Aljazeera, DN and BBC. It seems many Egyptians are getting tired and wanted to continue life as before. However, it's not over from the Key players. I see mass arrest, torture and disappearance will begin in Egypt.
This is not only Mubarak’s victory, but Obama’s and Israel victory too.
Sadly, I agree with you sivasm. As soon as the spotlight is off Tahrir Square, the real carnage starts. After all, they've got the right man for the job in power already. May their god help them all!
And Israel is already basking in their glory. One walk thru Ha'aretz will tell you how the fear has subsided and is back to the business of being Chosen all assured in the fact that the worst has passed and Big Daddy bailed their asses one more time.
As I watched day in and day out, it's like a chess game. Obama played an excellent game. Our "useless class" still asleep, when, when will they wake up!
It's not checkmate yet, it really depends the protesters out there, how much longer can they hold out. Now I understand why Dr. ElBaradei stayed off the streets. He would have been easily taken off with a simple sniper shot.
Wisner's bio reveals he's the bottom of the Barrel, yes all you OilyBomberbots your man choose the worst person around to run the show in Eygpt.
Wisner who helped to orchaestrate the Power Blackouts in California in order to raise electricity prices for Enron. Plus a few more heinous deeds.
Today Amy Goodman on Democracynow has a complete breakdown of Wisner and his dad (the guy that organized the Iran coup that put the monster Shah in) back in the 50s. The scholar on the show explains the US foreign policy using Wisner to do the real deals while the US Ambassador meets with Elbaradi in a show of interest in democracy and freedom. It's worse than hypocricy; it's a brutal regime (I'm talking about the USA here) using meetings with moderates as a fig leaf of plausible deniability for it's blatant support of a police state in Egypt.
I have a message for Wisner et al. This time it's not going to work. You predatory reptiles don't get it. People have decided to die before they allow this demonic status quo to continue. And a lot of them will die. But your police state bullshit is not going to stop more and more people from fighting your evil. They aren't going to let you get in front of this with your posturing bullshit, bogus constitutional transition claims and assorted delaying tactics and distractions. The SYSTEM has to change and it will. That system change will reach here eventually. Ofcourse the predators know that. That's why they are fighting so hard to put the lid on the Egyptian freedom fighters. But ever since the financial blow up in 2008, the writing has been on the wall. All the crushingly corrupt behavior by the Obama administration has all been part of a huge wounded monster flailing at the people it has always lived off of. It will take some more time. But the Wisners of this world are about to become history.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/7/the_
empires_bagman_us_ambassador_frank
I think that is why people are staying put in Liberation Square - partly because they have not yet achieved their goals and partially because they know that, if they go home, they could be rounded up one by one.
The protesters are Muslims and Christians side by side - you the youth want human rights over religious rule (like Iran has). I like Evan Solomon's term for it (when referring to Iran) a "Quiet Revolution" (like Quebec) rather than a westernization. Quebec did not become a mirror image English Speaking Canada when they broke with the past - they still see themselves as distinct from us. I don't think that the youth want to become like us, but they want something very different than what they have.
If the people get their way, Israel will finally have to negotiate in good faith. I think that you all know the wiki-leak-type revelations made by Aljazeera concerning the last peace talks where Hamas basically promised anything and everything.
I think that the Canadian Muslim Union Charter would be a good working document for Egypt:
# We believe the separation of religion and state should be respected in all matters of public policy.
# We oppose the fanaticism and extremism that afflicts some elements within the Muslim community.
# We believe gender equity is enshrined in Islam and will work to ensure that it is practiced in our Mosques and our Communities.
# We believe that homophobia has no place in our society and will oppose it where ever we find it.
# We will work for a progressive, equitable and accessible public policies in Canada.
# We will work to build a Canada where personal initiative and creativity are celebrated and rewarded, but not at the cost of our responsibility towards the broader community.
# We will work to build communities free from the ravages of racism, intolerance, ignorance, disease, and poverty.
# We will work for a world where religion becomes a force of joy, enlightenment, democracy, peace and bridge-building, rather than hate, oppression, war and division.
# We support the right of people around the world to live free from oppression and with economic and social justice for all.
Well said. However, to expound on the very important reason the people in Liberation Square are staying put; they aren't naive and they know this is the fight of their lives. They know the moment they disperse, the moment they get out of the police state's face, the moment the world isn't watching and the USA doesn't have to pretend to support democracy, they will all be rounded up one by one, tortured and or killed quietly in the routine enforcement of repression all police states are famous for. The Egyptian government has absolutely no credibility. The people in Liberation Square have to die publicly in that square and take down the regime with them or horribly die individually and alone separately while the police state silently kills them all if they leave the square. The second choice is a sure thing. They know that. The first choice affords a possibility that they can destroy this regime. Our US Empire is backing the police state all the way. In fact, when the USA sees that the Egyptian police state is coming apart, expect US troops killing Egyptians (in self defense and for freedom and democracy OF COURSE) in Liberation square to take the heat off of Mubarak if they have no other choice. The Empire does NOT want to lose Egypt because our facist friends in Israel simply will not allow it.
It's exhilirating and tragic at the same time. It's the old unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. God Bless the brave Egyptian people and may they prevail and teach our bloody US Empire a lesson in freedom and democracy.
Exactly. These people in Liberation Square have put their lives squarely on the line, and if they lose the attention of the world, they will be slaughtered.
That's a terribly premature judgment. It took a month to succeed in Tunisia, and Egypt is a much bigger state.
Many thought Mubarak was finished after less than a week, but he and his supporters simply stonewalled, an old and predictable tactic of oppressors. The demonstrators need to be even more persistent in return. The most persistent group will prevail ...
This seems like the Egyptian citizens are serious about rejecting foreign domination.
The name of the game is Stall.
All the scum have to do is keep stalling, "talking", "negotiating".
Demo'ing in the square was fine as a signal, and as a way to get the army on board.
But once MubarakCo made plain that they weren't going without a fight, the action on that Friday should have been a move to the presidential palace grounds. I.e., escalation = progress, even if largely symbolic. Then, on the Wednesday, if MubarakCo still wouldn't go, give him the push physically.
It might have been costly, but what's happening looks like also being costly, and for nothing. (I hope I'm wrong about the "for nothing")
I completely agree with you, Mairead. Mubarak is acting like the psycopath he is, playing games with the protesters and enjoying every moment of it. He is very much in control and after this long, very much assured that nothing is going to happen. The protesters lost their window of opportunity as you said. In fact, I go one step further and think that they should have hijacked those tanks on their square, marched in a convoy with them to the Presidential Palace and give him and ultimatum to get out. If he hadn't, then flatten the building by whatever the means to show they meant business. The Egyptians have the brains, the courage and determination to do that. I can't understand why they haven't done it. They have also lost their battle. Mubarak isn't going anywhere and when the spotlight is off Tahrir Square, the carnage begins. All of that was for nothing.
Agreed about the tanks--that would have been the *perfect* move! As long as they could be sure the Air Force was on the same page.
The impending death of this uprising (Goddess, I hope I'm wrong about that!) saddens and infuriates me.
I don't believe there's ever been a case when peaceful en-masse protests, *by themselves*, have ever toppled a dictator or created a good situation. Usually, I think, they end in disaster. Probably the biggest example of such a disaster was the Great Rising of 1381. The people did broadly what the Egyptians have been doing, and what people in the US do: they marched to London and presented their grievances to the king. He promised reforms, and then reneged after his henchmen killed the leaders of the revolt. Everything continued as before, except for the several hundred people for whom nothing continued because they were killed in the process.
As someone said: Martin was successful (to the extent he was) not because he had right and justice on his side but because the ruling class saw that Malcolm was the alternative. Deal with Martin, or deal with Malcolm. So they killed Malcolm and then killed Martin. And that killed the movement, just as killing Huey in '35 killed Huey's socialist "Share Our Wealth" movement. Which left FDR without opposition and allowed him to placate the Left with speeches and theater while serving the Right with substantive changes, e.g. by shifting the income tax burden off the wealthiest 5% onto us.
The resident trolls at CD who say, or applaud, things like "if one or two million folks who want to shitcan the system drove their cars to DC ... they would bring everything to a halt", as two of them did the other day - one has to wonder whether they're just immature or on some government payroll somewhere.
If they moved in on the palace, it would have been a massacre (see movie Last Samuri). What the Egyptians need are a few Jack Sparrows to sneak in and dismantle some of the defenses before the people march to the palace.
The Ace that the people have is that the Opposition parties want to please them so will be making sure the people know what "concessions" they won very quickly. Don't think they will please anybody but, hopefully, it will make the Military have to choose sides.
the theives and thugs continue to mis-under-estimate people's intelligence at their own peril!
Brothers and Sisters of Rgypt,
YOU are the inspiration for the rest of the people of the world!
Democracy Now reports that the opposition leaders had said they haven't agreed on anything like what MSM have been spreading as agreement.
DN is also reporting on Wisner sr and jr as the major operatives and players in the democratic foreign policies, explaining how the zionist tentacles, as examplified in wisners, have been in the US crimes against humanity around the globe for more than 4 decades.
anti-semitism my ass, in advance.
Perhaps, you haven't seen this:
"US envoy's business link to Egypt"
Obama scrambles to limit damage after Frank Wisner makes robust call for Mubarak to remain in place as leader.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/revealed-us-envoys-business-link-to-egypt-2206329.html
Wisner wasn't 'caught'. His words were a flag; a signal to other countries. Remember when Bush answered the demands for a 911 investigation by suggesting Kissinger? He was sending the signal that it would be a whitewash. The Wisner blab was a signal that all the obligatory "Wisner doesn't speak for the USA" crap from Hillary and Obama is just theater for the rubes. Wisner KNEW Hillary and Obama were going to do their part in this kabuki. The crooks that benefit off a police state in Egypt are being told to relax by our Empire.
Here's how it works:
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/7/the_
empires_bagman_us_ambassador_frank
Dear people of Egypt. How can you tell when Barack Obama is lying? Simple, just as with Bush, Clinton or Reagan, his lips will be moving! Believe him or Madam Hillary at your very real peril!
dear Z!,
you're the one who still believes the lies from MSM.
the egyptian people don't believe a word out of obomber or clinton or US MSM.
they flatly reject US zionist bullshit "transition".
also, egyptian opposition leaders did NOT agree on any obvious deceptive scheme, unlike what MSM tells you.
Egypt, the oldest civilization on earth, is giving birth to leaderless democracy in a beautiful revolution. Eons ago we humans grew our tails short, stood upright, and walked out of Africa to populate planet earth. Some of us stayed along the Nile and became known as Egyptians. Now those along the Nile have shaken off the chains of fear fueled by false propaganda and state violence, their bravery before military might and governmental brutality has been proven by souls willing to give their last breath to hold fast at Tahrir, Liberation Square. No government on earth serves liberty and justice for all, justice for the future, and justice with nature. Patient and brave Egyptians are showing us all that a leaderless revolution leading to leaderless democracy is motivated by quality of life which supports the awesome beauty of human spirit living free on our beautiful planet. The longer this revolution takes, the farther it will spread. Thank you brave Egypt, you are beautiful.
The appearance of playing along with Egypt's dictatorial regime in the Muslim world does not serve us well. The people of Egypt have the right to their OWN version of democracy.
The French Revolution didn't succeed by being peaceful. Egyptians should learn from history.
You can't defeat a thug like muBarack and the most powerful miltary (the US), which is behind him, by simply gathering at a square.
Gahndi did a pretty good job with Britian
Every situation is different.
If the Palestinians were to lie down in front of the tanks, the Israelis would roll right over them and the US would condemn the Palestinians as the terrorists.
If those imposing the injustice or violence don't have a moral compass or they are enbled by a power claiming the moral compass, then it doesn't work.
'If the Palestinians were to lie down in front of the tanks, the Israelis would roll right over them . . .'
. . . and ground into food for dogs and seniors (which would actually help the Egyptian export/balance-of-trade bottom line).
Many of Gandhi's followers were killed,beaten unmercifully and jailed. He proved non-violence works only if enough of the non-violent protesters are the same as the brave, violent soldiers that are willing to die in battle. Gandhi said many times to his followers:" non-violence is not cowardice". Having said that, if your family or country is legitimately under attack and you say " I am non-violent so I forgive you... " and one does not use violence against the aggressor; that is complete cowardice. And Gandhi would probably agree with me.
And of course the British Empire was crumbling and India was going to be freed regardless, which is a part of Ghandian context oten omitted by those who ought to know better.
I believe another empire is crumbling now.
Yes. Non-violence is the MOST difficult method of resistance, the method of resistance that requires the most courage, the most conviction in your cause, contrary to what many think. Far from being cowardice, non-violence requires tremendous courage.
Violence is easy.
" Having said that, if your family or country is legitimately under attack and you say " I am non-violent so I forgive you... " and one does not use violence against the aggressor; that is complete cowardice. "
No, it isn't. Depends on what you are attempting to do. What a lot of people seem to forget about Gandhi is that his advocacy of non-violence was meant as a strategy to win, first and foremost, and not simply in some idealistic belief in the inherent moral goodness of non-violence.
Not correct, Gandhi's nonviolence wasn't what caused the British to leave in any way, shape or form. Britain was exhausted by World War II, they knew they had no mandate at home, or international support, or the reliability of native forces for continuing to control India.
Still, anywhere between 250,000 and 500,000 people on all sides of the new borders of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh did die in gruesome bloodshed, so there was indeed a LOT of violence during the independence process, despite Gandhi.
And Gandhi wasn't by any means 100% against violence. His quotes: "I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
"I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor."
ghandi was a brilliant tactical leader, as well as a profound and principled political thinker.
fake left propagandists would love to portray him as someone who preached "unconditional absolute non-violence for non-violence's sake". of course he was far from such a dumb simpleton.
The French Revolution succeeded, how?
It resulted in a bunch of thugs, taking over, thugs that even another thug such as Robespierre could not control. Which resulted in a militarist thug, Napoleon, which resulted in how many millions of Frenchmen, and other Europeans, killed or maimed in completely pointless wars? And then, the Bourbons were back. If the French revolution succeeded, it was very much an equivocal and qualified success.
"You can't defeat a thug like muBarack and the most powerful miltary (the US), which is behind him, by simply gathering at a square.
"
So your proposal to defeat someone with bigger guns than you, is to get into a shootout with those people with bigger guns?
Please don't revise history. The French Revolution was successful in deposing the monarchy, or are you disputing that?
Were the French people better off with the monarchs in power? No, please don't be ludicrous.
Please read up on your history.
The Bourbons returned to rule. So, how succesful was the revolution actually?
"Were the French people better off with the monarchs in power? No, please don't be ludicrous.
"
Were they better off? No. Yet, after the revolution, they had the autocratic militarist Napoleon, who ended up killing and maiming millions of French and Europeans with his self-aggrandising wars. And after the Napoleon, the Bourbons got onto the throne again. Who is being ludicrous? You, who is suggesting that the way to beat someone with bigger guns than you, is to get into a shootout with the people with the bigger guns?
The modern era has UNFOLDED in the shadow of the French Revolution, don't embarrass yourself. The growth of republics and liberal democracies, the spread of secularism, the development of modern ideologies and the advancement of women's rights were a direct result of that radical revolution. There were setbacks but France eventually became a democratic republic as a result and only as a result of the initial push started by the French revolution. There were also a radical social change to forms based on Enlightenment principles of citizenship and inalienable rights. You're blind to ignore the impact the revolution had on France and on the rest of the world.
You're also blind if you think there was ever any real change in the course of history without violence. Nobody's advocating violence, just pointing out reality. Even the independence of India, which many dreamers like you might think happened without violence, saw bloodshed and the death 500,000 Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Don't live in a fool's paradise.
I doubt it as it appears to be yet another genuine product of the US Empire's Propaganda and Indoctrination Systems.
That is the problem Karlof1: You cannot tell the trolls from the average politically, brainwashed, dumbed down, and ignorant, Foxy News watcher. I run into them practically every day! Just like the other day, I ran into an acquaintance and he just blurted out" we need to get that terrorist in Venezuela " oh I said, where did you hear that? If this guy posted on CD he would be taken for a troll by many but he is just another Fox News watcher. Folks, I do not watch Fox News but from what I can tell, maybe it should be labeled a terrorist news organization!
Sometimes I find that refreshing!
Yeah, to get a dose of "reality," I read comments at Yahoo! and other corporate sites. On Saturday, Fisk talked about the necessity of "infantilizing" the polity in order for authoritarian governing structures to flourish. That was displayed for the world to see yesterday in the twenty minutes of intense propaganda unleashed by Fox just prior to the super bowl's kickoff; I usually don't view such crap, but I was curious to see the content, and it was sickening.
good argument except your absolutely wrong, Eygpt is mainly secular.
Religous slogans are banned from Tarrir Square, its unity of all the people.
$2 Billion in aid, mostly military, goes a long way to keep Mubarak in power.
Why has OilyBomber sent a criminal zionist Wisner to represent the USA today?
*yawn*
How many billions of military aid has America given to Mubarak and his predecessor Sadat?
"Romanticizing the events in Egypt is as dangerous as supposing that Israel will go quietly into the night if she loses a peaceful neighbor.
"
Don't you mean a neigbour ruled by a puppet?
The u.s. has also been living under a State of Emergency since September 11, 2001. When will it be lifted?
Understand the symbol of Mubarak--but don't get hoodwinked rallying around the symbol while they slip in Sulieman, who is no better--and much more likely to be worse.
Obama promised and keeps saying there are no lobbyists in his administration. Please no laughing right now. I know this ain't so. However, when the highest figure in the US Government says this and then sends a lobbyist to Egypt as his Special Envoy who then appears in the media saying Mubarak must stay in power, shouldn't this be sufficient for an impeachment process? A law suit, something?
Then Clinton has the straight face to say this guy has years of good service but he does not speak for the US Government when the guy was sent to Egypt by Obama? Am I missing something here or do we actually have two presidents in charge? Wouldn't this also be grounds for impeachment? To me this is a complete breakdown in governance and should not be tolerated. Oh, so many things should not be tolerated. This is yet one more for the long list. So, wouldn't a compilation of all the wrong doings of this treacherous administration be grounds for a law suit or an impeachment?
How can we legally clean up this for-the-corporations government? There has to be a way!
It was Edwards who said that he would get the lobbyists out of Washington and Obama who said that the Health Insurance industry would have a seat at the negotiating table - during the debates.
As much as I liked his wife Elizabeth and as much of a jerk as I saw him as being, he would have still been preferable to what we have now.