Demonstration Targets Anti-War Protesters
When peace activist Medea Benjamin stepped to the podium at the annual New Jersey Peace Action dinner yesterday, she already was known as co-founder of the human rights organization Global Exchange and the women’s anti-war group CODEPINK.Yesterday, Benjamin received another title: terrorist.
“The original Medea murdered her children,” read one protest sign outside The Regency House hotel on Route 23 in Pompton Plains, where the dinner was held. “Medea Benjamin is murdering ours.”
Some 18 people from groups that oppose anti-war protests as “anti-American” hoisted signs condemning CODEPINK as supporting terrorism.
“I’m here to support our soldiers,” said Beverly Perlson, founder of the group Band of Mothers. Perlson, whose son served four tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, flew in from Chicago to attend the rally in Morris County. She said CODEPINK protesters, who have agitated for the closure of a military recruitment center in Berkeley, Calif., are not just “anti-victory,” they are “pro-defeat.”
“They want to see us lose. I don’t understand this,” Perlson said, after a heated exchange with CODEPINK supporters. “I’ve been referred to as the mother of a terrorist. … My son isn’t a terrorist.”
“They are a very virulent anti-American group,” Carolyn Van Zorge, of North Bergen, state coordinator for the group Gathering of Eagles, said of CODEPINK, which has regional offices in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington and New York.
A driver entering the hotel told the protesters, “I feel sorry for you.” A protester spat back, “Go to hell!” Another remarked, “Keep driving, communist!”
Seated at a table in the hotel, Medea Benjamin, a San Francisco resident dressed in pink, listened to the list of accusations from protesters outside.
An issue frequently raised by protesters was $650,000 raised by CODEPINK for humanitarian aid in Iraq. Protesters maintain the money made its way to Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah. Benjamin said the donations were used for medicine and goods given to Fallujah refugees, especially women and children.
Perlson dismissed the 250 dinner attendees as “terrorists,” but Benjamin said that is “misguided.”
“We get calls and e-mails from people in the military every day saying, ‘Thank-you. We want to come home,’” Benjamin said.
But Benjamin admits she has a “soft spot” for the protesters. “I feel I have more in common with them than I do with most Americans,” Benjamin said.
Another speaker at the anti-war event, retired Army Col. Ann Wright, served 29 years in the military and specialized in post-conflict reconstruction. She spent 16 years as a diplomat before resigning over the Iraq war.
Wright, who now lives in Hawaii, said she liked to meet protesters like the Gathering of Eagles. “I find that we agree on a lot of things,” she said. “We agree the military should not be used for illegal purposes.”
For Vietnam veteran Douglas Fuller, who was protesting outside, there seemed to be some common ground.
“As far as war goes, I hate war,” said Fuller, who drove from Ludlow, Mass., for the rally. “Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here. I feel sorry for them. I know what they’re going through. There’s no glory.”
Nyier Abdou may be reached at nabdou@starledger.com.
© 2008 The Star Ledger
“Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here.”
That’s the delusion too many Americans hold tightly to their chests to justify the invasion and occupation. The statement is full of slogans and empty of substance.
Finding common ground is the result of seeking it. It tends to be found whenever it is honestly sought. Both groups are meeting instances of betrayal of principles, the rule of law, among other concerns. There is no glory, victory or defeat, these are terms mired in conflict dependent on conflict. There is the possibility of looking each other in the eye and seeking common ground in dignity for all.
I think the theory of cognitive dissonance applies here. People who sacrifice so much need to believe the sacrifice was worth it. For example, a mother who loses a son has a strong need to believe he died for something greater than life itself: freedom, decency, democracy, etc… Cindy Sheehan is rather exceptional and someone I deeply admire. If people are interested in finding the common ground, they should start by listening to her, and start questioning the rationality of the authority that presses the need for perpetual war.
“Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here.” Eh?
I think it is the guys and gals right here that are fighting for our freedoms.
Constant brainwashing by the corporate media will take us all to our graves.
Yeah,
“Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here.”
Then ther the traditional:
“They are fighting for your freedom to criticise them” (implying: “so stop criticising them”)
Delusion is an understatement for these remarks! It is a uniquely USAn mass-madness.
It is embarassing to have to point such an obvious thing out, but there is absolutely none, zero, zltch, of a causual, logical, or any other kind of connection, between invading, occupying and murdering another people in a far off land land and my “freedom”, the Bill of Rights, or any other such thing!
Demonstrating in support of the War, and condemning Codepink are two very different issues. The latter suggests a dangerous tilt. People who hate others for their efforts for peace are likely to escalate to physical violence. The radical right feels enabled today to destroy whatever lies in their way on their march to power. The failure to prosecute the high profile lawbreakers suggests that low level lawbreakers can act with impunity.
It sounds to me like OIF veterans and occupation forces have yet another mission: to protect those who continue to battle on their side to to bring their colleagues home.
Pro-War protestors? What is this world coming to when people are for War! You can label all these organizations with Patriotic phrases such as “Band of Mothers” and “Gathering of Eagles”, but it after their gone only two things remain, the crap that came out of both orifaces!
The “freedom isn’t free” stickers you see on cars all over the place just demonstrates to me that the drivers of those vehicles have just turned their brains off. Exactly what freedom’s are we talking about? You mean the fourth amendment freedom against unreasonable searches and seizures that the Bush Administration has trashed? Is that the one? How about freedom of speech and assembly? You know, are soldiers dying in Iraq so peaceful protesters can be pepper sprayed and “Tasered” and you can exercise your freedom to speak in a “free speech zone” whenever the Dear Leader Bush gives a speech? How about the freedom to show up with a t-shirt at one of these “Republican” events and to be forceably removed by private goons. How about those freedoms? Don’t make me laugh.
On the heels of revelations about Pentagon Propaganda aimed at citizens of the U.S., we have a sudden public relations campaign to make it appear that there is substantial active support in the U.S. for the war.
On Sunday our local paper contained a piece in the Op-Ed section by Katie Dyer, “a former anchor for Fox news in Eugene…the founder of Heros at Home LLC…which helps deployed soldiers stay connected to their loved ones at home.” The piece argued for (surprise!) continuing the war so that the sacrifices we’ve already made will matter. The ex-Fox anchor, the wife of a National Guardsman stationed in Afghanistan, write that she watches peace rallies through “…angry tears.” She also relates a story where, last year, as she and her husband left a military ball they had to walk through a dozen female anti-war protestors “lining both sides of the sidewalk.” She writes that one of the protestors whispered, “You’ll join us when your husband dies,” as she passed by.
I’m surprised she didn’t claim they spit on her.
I would bet that if you looked into the funding of “Band of Mothers”, “Gathering of Eagles” and “Heros at Home” you’d find the same kinds of right-wingers as those who financed the swiftboat vets.
They’re trying to make the occupations look popular. I’ve been to a few anti-war protests recently. In stark contrast to demonstrations in years past, the vast majority of people passing nodded, flashed peace signs, honked. And this was out in the countryside where most voters are Republicans.
The polls show support for the occupations has dropped substantially. A CNN poll conducted in March showed 60% of Americans want to “Set a timetable for removing troops and stick to it regardless of what is going on in Iraq.”
The right wing and Bush are, once again, presenting a fantasy world where they’re succeeding. And the MSM is going along with it.
Pro war protestors should be going to iraq. They support the war–they can be drivers and cleaners. There are lots of jobs they can do in Iraq.
Soldiers dont support freedom.
Each side claims to have the moral authority–German soldiers in ww 2 had the exact same rationale as American soldiers today(except I believe german soldiers were in greater danger of being shot as a traitor).
The pro war idiots should just go to Iraq.
Put up or shut up.
Okay, full disclosure–I think Medea Benjamin and the Code Pink ladies are 100% patriotic Americans in the finest tradition. I also like their nerve and determination to infiltrate congressional and senatorial hearings and not allow “business as usual”.
All that being said, the “protesters” in this story don’t know what they are talking about. I have never heard Medea or Code Pink criticize the men and women of the military. I have heard them severely criticize its civillian leadership from the Pentagon to the White House for their lying, imperialistic, and, may I say, unpatriotic behavior.
As for those who think that Code Pink is “pro-defeat” instead of “pro-victory” please explain more exactly your definition of “defeat” and “victory”. Even many in the highest ranks of military leadership over the past 6-7 years have complained of unclear goals and “mission creep” being foisated off on the military in this whole affair.
That’s why so many combat veterans have formed Iraq veterans against the war and the American public has given Bush the lowsest presidential approval rating since Harry Truman (who was also stuck in the midst of a vague and open-ended war).
Poet: Excellent! Perfecto!
America – Same shit – different war. If I live another thirty years I can write this again if America is still around. Protest is patriotic for it displays the Founders’ backbone and spirit to correct what is wrong. Pro war demonstrators are so misguided that it’s a shame. That coupled with the fact that their loved ones are being used as fodder is enough to have one find compassion for their collective dumb ass. They could be writing their representatives, local media and their people overseas in support of troop benefits and proper armor instead of wasting their time protesting in support of a horrible war because there are those among us that wish to end it. They could be protesting the treatment of their own but they seem to find it easier to demonize others than to expect their historically dishonest government to do better for American’s armed forces personnel. It’s not hard to imagine their ancestors hanging a witch or beating a slave. It’s hard to imagine them any other way yet they are American’s too. Pity…
“Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here.”
Yes, the freedom to assail someone’s postion that differs from their own, and destroy them through guilt by association, i.e. Barack and Rev. Wright.
The freedom to create a fascist state and move the distributed wealth of the middle class to the top 2%.
The freedom to ignore the constitution and create laws like W’s signing statements.
The freedom to torture.
The freedom to spend hundreds of billions on war machinery, while abandoning the commons that we all depend upon.
The freedom to fill our govt agencies with incompetent cronies who move in from the very industries they are supposed to be overseeing.
The freedom to write what I am writing now, for how long? before the mind shapers come ’round and take me off to an indoctrination camp.
How much longer freedom? How our forefathers must be shouting from their graves.
Medea is a hero, plain and simple.
That some people prefer to think other people’s thoughts, is one of the main reasons that we elect mass murderers because they are “pro-life”. We install dictators to promote democracy, and destroy our freedoms in order to protect them.
These pro-war people who saturate their minds with the likes of O’Reilly, Hannity, Michael Savage, Limbaugh, the false clergy in the Christian funDUMBentalist sects, and Fox “faux” News are the willful ignorant. Hitler had his “followers” right to the end. Yes Amos, it is a pity.
glenn goodman: You’re certainly right!
Go to ‘Band of Mothers’ website and notice how many times the word ‘warrior’ is used. Same terminology so often used by Religious Right and Christian Zionists! The connections are easy to follow for any who care to see.
Also, the claims that anti-war protestors have denigrated the troops is bull—-. The anti-war folks have been totally circumspect in NOT casting negatives on the troops - another fantasy the rightwing loonies have to fictionalize to give their movement any emotional strength at all - because logic or intelligence sure as hell won’t give such strength to them.
The Peace / Progressive Movements better get their acts together folks. This moral anomoly that calls itself ‘pro-war’ is still a vocal, ignorant, albeit well-financed minority - but they will gain strength if the peace activists don’t come together and apply real political pressure - AT EVERY LEVEL.
We are closer to losing this country than at anytime in our history - writing here is fine for engaging entertainment and enlightenment - but it will no longer suffice.
Tiberius Bond said, “Constant brainwashing by the corporate media will take us all to our graves.”
And you can lump in The Daily Show with Jon Stewart with the corporate media. This show has often gone out of its way to vilify CODEPINK. The show even has a public affairs officer of the Marines, Major Rob Riggle, on staff as a comedian who makes it his job as correspondent to put CODEPINK in a bad light.
http://www.rothtalent.com/speakers/slist/Riggle
Another similarity with Vietnam.
This continual military aggression in Iraq is not whole-heartedly supported by the American citizenry.
Instead, it rends the nation apart.
The longer this goes on, the more the USA tears itself apart.
18 people get together, and this bit of the corporate news hurries out reporters to make sure their story gets told.
Anyone want to check to see how they covered the last round of anti-war protests with tens of thousands of Americans out protesting?
Note also how Medea Benjaman came to her town to speak, and this local paper managed to completely avoid telling its readers what she had to say. Interesting propaganda technique. They try to tell their readers not to listen to Medea, nor pay any attention to what she says … but they use these anti-american (anti-free speech IS anti-American) protestors to deliver the message.
Freedom isn’t free. Our forefathers had to fight for our American freedoms. Because there are always authoritarian forces that will hate any freedom. They want people to be their slaves and to be press-ganged into being their soldiers. There are always forces that want power and wealth, and the only way to get it is to steal it from others. And you certainly can’t have those others being ‘free’ to organize to try to stop that.
Freedom isn’t free. Freedom is never given to you by the powerful. The history of the world is that people always have to fight to be free.
Of course, the same people who push those ‘Freedom isn’t free’ stickers would be outraged if Americans started fighting to regain their freedoms.
The Daily Show is often too complex for simple minds.
If the ex-Marine public affairs officer looks like an idiot while attacking Code Pink, maybe they’ve taught a few people to look a little closer at the current public affairs officers when they get on TV.
Humor and satire can be powerful weapons. Perhaps the most powerful.
Think what a wonderful world it would be if a public affairs officer stepped to the Pentagon podium and almost all of American just broke up laughing at the absurdity of what he’s saying.
“Soldiers dont support freedom.”
The founders of this country understood that a permanent standing military was the greatest possible threat to freedom.
Gathering of Vultures
Why dont they counter protest Code Pink by enlisting to fight? I might take them seriously then.
Put their asses where their mouths are, instead of putting their mouths where their asses are.
why does American “freedom” from imaginary enemies (Iraq) always trump foreigners freedom from American tyranny?
Freddom must be universal, or it just becomes a slogan to disguise American Imperialism
“An issue frequently raised by protesters was $650,000 raised by CODEPINK for humanitarian aid in Iraq. Protesters maintain the money made its way to Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah.”
I wonder how much of the “aid” earmarked for the puppet government has also ended up in insurgent hands.
One of tht titles the author of this puff piece missed for Ms. Benjamin is; Democrat. Over the last four years the antiwar movement has trundled along ineffectively in no small part because of people like Ms. Benjamin’s tacit support for the Democrats.
I believe actual antiwar protestors have pied Ms. Benjamin for being a sell out to the Democrats. And I think after eight years of Cheney/Bush, it’s clear to everyone Democrats can not be believed, nor trusted. They’re spineless.
“Some 18 people from groups that oppose anti-war protests as “anti-American” hoisted signs condemning CODEPINK as supporting terrorism.”
I seem to remember days when we (the commie pinkos) could do better than 18 people at a demonstration - say 100,000!!
Maybe the Right Wing could do better if “Dancing with the Stars” got cancelled.
“are not just “anti-victory,” they are “pro-defeat.””
So that’s what it comes down to for most Americans hey… Victory at all costs… regardless of the death and destruction inflicted on others by the USA. I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s something seriously wrong with American culture.
Do eagles really gather together? If they did, what would be the results upon their immediate environment?
I am a vet, and spoke out vociferously in ranks against the US war in Viet Nam, and twenty years later I was giving a speech at Venice Beach, when an intoxicated Viet Nam vet challenged me saying, I would not be able to speak had he not fought for it in Viet Nam.
I disagreed and said, “We lost that war, and they never posed a threat to our freedoms. This is true today as it was in Yugoslavia, Panama, Grenada, Nicaragua, Somalia, etc.
The only treats I have gotten are from rightwingers and cops, who tried to bully me and did not. So never take that crap that the US military is fighting to preserve our freedom. We fear them shooting us actually!
I dislike Jon Steward, he had Kissinger and Albright on and kissed their asses completely, I do not watch TV, and that was years ago at a girlfriends house who did.
I was in the audience of Lenny Bruce in San Francisco when he asked for a show of hands of the Europeans in the room. About a third raised their hands. Lenny said, “I was in the navy in world war two, and went to Europe, and I don’t ever want you to forget, that we tried to fuck your mother for a candy bar.”
I had just gotten back from a year in Korea and could relate to that deeply. There are no heroes in war, just victims begetting victims, for other people’s profits!
“Love Your Freedom? Thank a Vet!”
Good bumper sticker, but after the battle of Yorktown, we’ve owed more of our freedom to the courage of reformers and lawyers than to the courage of soldiers.
I have the highest respect for the soldier’s contribution to national service.
But the “Freedom” Bush/Cheney speaks of is the freedom of U.S. banks and corporation to do business anywhere in the world on the terms they choose… not my freedom.
“Anti-War Protester Sinks to New Low
Friday, April 25, 2008
Low Blow
An anti-war protester was arrested Tuesday in New York after he punched a teenaged Bush supporter who is confined to a wheelchair.
The New York Post reports 22-year-old German Talis was shouting obscenities at first lady Laura Bush and daughter Jenna as they were leaving a promotion for their children’s book. John and Wendy Lovetro and their daughter had been in the audience, and John told the protester to shut up — saying the appearance was about the children’s book.
The Post says Talis then began hitting 18-year-old Maureen Lovetro, who has cerebral palsy. Talis struck her on the shoulders and the legs before John Lovetro fought him off. Police charged Talis with assault and resisting arrest. Maureen was not seriously hurt.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352666,00.html
According to the group, “We Are Change”, in which ‘German’/Gary Talis is a member, “Our first priority is the criminal defense of Gary Talis, now facing trumped up and completely libel 3rd degree assault charges. Additionally, those individuals and/or organizations who willingly submit falsified testimony must be litigated in civil court for libel, slander, defamation of character, etc.” According to the group, the girls father assaulted Talis and Talis didn’t assault anyone.
Condensed from the novel, Homefront:
“He died for us all,” she told reporters.
Carolyn Thompson - mother of Aaron Thompson, one of the first American soldiers killed in the assault against Iraq - she said, “He died for each and every one us.” She stood beside her husband on the front porch, speaking to reporters massed on the lawn.
“He died for all of us.”
But beneath the disaster that was the loss of her son and the wreck that was her heart, Carolyn had begun to wonder whether or not she was right.
Maybe, in fact, her son had died because of all of us, not for.
And maybe the battle in Iraq was not “worth the fighting for,” after all, Carolyn worried. Maybe it was even wrong. She did not know much about the conflict, in fact. She knew what she had been told, what she had heard. She wished now that she knew more. She wished she had known enough to know more. She wondered if she should have. She had thought she was well informed, as much as a normal person like herself might be. At least, she had thought she was normal. Now she wondered. About a lot of things. She wondered what normal was. Or what it should be.
The President of the United States and the Congress of the United States believed the battle was worth the fighting for. The famous Senator and former war prisoner John McCain even had a recent book titled with those very words Worth the Fighting For - she had seen it lying on her neighbor’s coffee table - it was supposed to be a famous literary quote from the author Ernest Hemingway. And all the media she had seen and listened to repeated what the President and Congress said in one form or another, and the media drew on a lot of experts who said a lot more in support besides. Plenty of generals and other commentators on TV and radio said the same thing mainly, the newspapers too, that the battle was worth the fighting for.
Then with Aaron overseas she had begun to follow the conflict and the media more closely. News headlines and sound bytes - her head was full of these. National defense. Humanitarian mission. Liberation of the Iraqis. No matter the setbacks, never mind the risks, the battle, fatal as it might be for many, was worth it. It was immoral not to fight. It was too risky not to fight. It was worth going in, staying in, finishing. Necessary work. Democracy and peace for the Middle East. Protection from terrorism against the United States. Fight them over there, or fight them over here. Protection from weapons of mass destruction. This is what she heard. Now her son was dead.
And did he die for us? Or because of us?
http://apragmaticpolicy.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/worth-the-fighting-for/
No one in Iraq is fighting for our freedom. They are fighting for oil, corporate greed, and the Israeli lobby. Code Pink has been very good at pointing this out and this is very painful for most Americans to confront. Americans would rather chant naieve sloganas and try to remain in their delusion that we are somehow helping the Iraqi people and will someday “win” something there. When you have lost your moral compass, bankrupted your country, and 70% of those occupied want you to leave, then you should get out.
Support online freedom of speech by asking your Representative to support H.R. 275, the Global Online Freedom Act.
In April 2004, the Chinese journalist Shi Tao used his Yahoo! email account to send a message to a U.S.-based pro-democracy website. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison for “illegally providing state secrets to foreign entities.” Disturbingly, Yahoo! provided information to the government for his prosecution.
War is peace.
Slavery is freedom.
Democracy defends free speech.
I think Orwell nailed our dystopian future all too well…
Any CDers within range of San Francisco should try to show solidarity with these folks on May 1.
This is the event our fellow CDer peaceman has been talking about.
Think of it - a slap at Pelosi in her own back yard.
I wonder why CindyBabe has not mentioned it hmmmmm?
Clash ahead over longshore union war protest
George Raine, Chronicle Staff Writer
Saturday, April 26, 2008
Members of the International Longshore & Warehouse Union are proceeding with plans for a work stoppage at 29 West Coast ports on May 1 to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the fact that union leadership has withdrawn its request to waterfront employers that they accommodate closure of the ports.
Planning for the protest began in February when the Longshore Caucus, the highest decision-making body for the 25,000 members of the longshore division within the ILWU, overwhelmingly approved a resolution in support of a day of protest.
…… for remainder see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/26/BUC610C2HA.DTL&hw=longshore&sn=001&sc=1000
If you think that our guys are fighting for our freedom’s in Irac,you need to look at how we got there.Were there for oil.our guy’s &girl’s are dieing,so bush & buddies can make a buck,everything that moran has said is a lie.To those who think we are fighting for our freedom’s, Look how that’s working out for us,Look how many of our freedom’s have been taken away,and now if you don’t agree with the government,your a TERRORIST. If you have a fight with your wife or husband,that’s a terrorist act ,wake up people before it’s to late. I don’t want to say i told you so,I want us all to stick togather,and MAKE our government work for us (we the people)
P.S.
Cindy’s reply:
cindysheehan April 28th, 2008 7:08 pm
Why haven’t I mentioned it?
I have written a letter of solidarity to ILWU and I will be there to speak and march with my brothers and sisters.
Am I the CindyBabe you mention, Janelly?
Love
Cindy
“One can’t say that all conservatives are stupid people, but one can say that all stupid people are conservatives”.
John Stewart Mill
“‘I’m here to support our soldiers,’ said Beverly Perlson, founder of Band of Mothers…”
Could someone please explain to me what the HELL that means??? The pro-war ignorati are conspicuously NOT among those working to improve VA hospitals, veterans’ benefits, assistance to soldiers’ families, or (least of all) bring soldiers home. They are not interested in preventing needless deaths or atrocities by ending the war. What exactly are they “supporting” other than continued murder and mayhem (and the “freedom” to “think” only in buzzwords and slogans)?
“As far as war goes, I hate war,” said Fuller, who drove from Ludlow, Mass., for the rally. “Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here. I feel sorry for them. I know what they’re going through. There’s no glory.”
Fuller seems disingenuous or brianwashed. Bush sent the military into Iraq to disarm Saddam of WMDs, so he said. And Saddam took part in 911. Saddam broke UN resolutions. He gassed his own people. Where did Fuller get: “Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have hwre.” That’s Bull droppings.
The slogan “War on Terror” has now become a “War of terror.” After five years of carnage in Iraq, how could anyone other than a harden criminal tacitly, or otherwise, support this occupation?
“just ‘anti-victory,’ they are ‘pro-defeat.’”
I love when people throw this around. I further infuriate them by agreeing with them. I believe the occupation of Iraq is illegal and unethical, why on earth would I want it to succeed?
These people’s concept of patriotism is seriously deranged; it involves blind obedience to the government and the belief that American lives are more valuable than others. I love my country and the American people, which is why I believe we deserve a better government. It is the American people who should shape our governments ideals not the other way around.
“Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here”
What freedoms? The freedom to oppress and brutalize other people? The irony of this of course is that Americans have historically fought for their freedom, however this fight has not been with foreign powers but with our very own government.
DEAR CINDY,
CD (Civil Disobedience)has an update, CR (Civil Resistance) the distinction as put forth by its outstanding proponent Prof Francis Boyle, is that in CD you brake the law, a minor infraction, to prove your dissent to the point of getting arrested and the ordeal that goes with it, to get that statement, into the news more effectively, it has been almost a precondition for press, and became a tradition, sitting on ceremony and getting wacked, gassed, and hauled away to jail. And I have been there and done that too. But, you are the defendant period, quality of failure to disperse.
CR - Civil Resistance is you challenge the legality of government policy as unlawful. The government has to make the case that the war is in compliance with US Law, constitutional, and that bring into the equation, International Law; the Nuremberg Principles, Treaty on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, Geneva Conventions, UN Charter - all binding as treaties in the US Constitution, Article 6, clause 2 as the supreme law of the land and binding on all judges.
Below is the link to Global Research New Hour on RBN radio. The first hour Steve Lendman interviews Francis Boyle on Civil Resistance at some length and detail. The second hour is you being interviewed.
So, for all of us here, this is vital information to absorb and utilize as a better tactic, and I think will attract more participants, old and new, into the ranks. I always felt that I was not the one who should be going to jail, but the president, the war machine and its owners.
The link below is found at the bottom of the page as the first of the weekly programs in March.
MONDAY, MARCH 3, 2008
MP3 Files: Hour 1, Hour 2
Playlist Files: PLS M3U
Steve Lendmen in the first hour talks with his guest Prof. Boyle about resisting the crimes of state. In the second hour he talks with Cindy Sheehan.
notgoingalong,
Thank you very much for those links! I heard Professor Boyle on KPFA radio several times and the man is as good as they come!
I attended the New Jersey Peace Action Dinner honoring Colonel Ann Wright and Medea Benjamin on April 27, 2008. It hurt me to read the insults and condemnations hurled at Ms. Benjamin by pro-war demonstrators outside the event. After learning about Ms. Benjamin’s tireless and courageous efforts to deliver desperately needed medicines and relief supplies to Iraqi refugees I feel compelled to speak on her behalf. When a dedicated pacifist and true humanitarian like Medea Benjamin is called a terrorist, then that word has ceased to have any coherent meaning beyond its use as a tool to divide us against one another. It’s hard to fathom how supporters of George Bush can accuse peace activists of murdering the Americans that he illegally sent to Iraq to fight a nation that had never attacked us. American citizens need to understand that what has befallen our illegally deployed troops and the devastated people of Iraq stems from a policy based on mass deception and a war machine run amok in our midst. I hope that those who proclaim to support our troops can see that our common enemies are the pro-war politicians and their defense contractor cronies who are at this very moment pocketing hundreds of billions of our tax dollars and laughing at us all the way to the bank. We must come together to stop this madness. We need an envigorated peace movement now more than ever before in our history and it won’t happen without masses of American citizens getting active to demand an end to endless war.
I attended the New Jersey Peace Action Dinner honoring Colonel Ann Wright and Medea Benjamin on April 27, 2008. It hurt me to read the insults and condemnations hurled at Ms. Benjamin by pro-war demonstrators outside the event. Ms. Benjamin is tireless and courageous in her efforts to deliver desperately needed medicines and relief supplies to Iraqi refugees. When a dedicated pacifist and humanitarian like Medea Benjamin is called a terrorist, then that word has ceased to have any coherent meaning beyond its use as a tool to divide us against one another. It’s hard to fathom how supporters of George Bush can accuse peace activists of murdering the Americans that he illegally sent to Iraq to fight a nation that had never attacked us. American citizens need to understand that what has befallen our illegally deployed troops and the devastated people of Iraq stems from a policy based on mass deception and a war machine run amok in our midst. I hope that those who proclaim to support our troops can see that our common enemies are the pro-war politicians and their defense contractor cronies who are at this very moment pocketing hundreds of billions of our tax dollars and laughing at us all the way to the bank. We must come together to stop this madness. We need an envigorated peace movement now more than ever before in our history and it won’t happen without masses of American citizens getting active to demand an end to endless war. I salute the work of Medea Benjamin, Colonel Ann Wright, New Jersey Peace Action and all the people and organizations working for that which is essential if our children and the children of Iraq are going to survive on this planet: peace.
I’m sorry to say the LAST guys that fought for “our freedom”, were WWII vets. period.
They fought the facists who REALLY were a threat to what we enjoy today…(but even that freedom is eroding under the current bunch of criminals in office)
(Afghanistan is still a question mark, getting rid of the taliban, who supposedly helped Bin Laden, but were not the aggressors on 9/11 arab?)
every “war” since was/is for control of resources and monies..regime change to some thug or dictator that would sell out their country to US big business.
please tell me how the Communists in Korea threatened my/our freedom?
we left / lost and are still free , are we not?
Tell me how communist Vietnamese, threatened my/your freedom?
we left/lost there too , and as far as i can see the freedom is still here..
please tell me how Saddam Hussein threatened MY freedom or yours?..someone?
You can’t, because NONE of those boogymen EVER threatened our freedom, they just threatened the one sided commerce that the USA wanted in those places.
jim
canada
jim_murray@jdz.ca
Rachel,
Demand it to whom? The congress? I can say we have, before the war started, before Bush got into office, before Clinton got into office, all the back to WWII and even WWI. Mark Twain testified against the Spanish-American War.
The congress is not in the least our representatives, anymore than the presidents are honorable. We have a totally rotten system.
One of the biggest lies, and it must be a compromise; is “taking our country back” Just when in hell was it ours as a people, certainly not at the constitutional convention!
We, the people need to reinvent ourselves and political relationships with each other. And a republic is a fascist formula from the vary start with Plato himself.
Political theory and talk about what we want “after the revolution” has been absent from the dialogue for 40 years and was in its infancy then!
Your sentiments as pristine and perfect. What I have to add is, our demands have to be DIRECTED TO EACH OTHER!
How, is in a National Referendum on the war, among other issues. We need to move ourselves from beggars to emancipated powerful people who will decide for themselves that is to be, Public Law and Policy. This is called Pure Democracy. All else is a waste of time, the status quo, and once you know it, it is complicity to play along with the charade whatsoever!
The terrorist are in power. They are the those who “go along with the master planners and rubber stamp their atrocities, Crimes Against Humanity, and hide behind slogans, speeches, and aids in public office. I dispise the whole apparatus, but we need to move to a decisive new start. The polls indicate what we think and demand, but they are not acted upon, even by us! A perfect example is that the vast majority of American identified as Jewish, are opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet AIPAC has a strangling effect on our representatives, and apparently them too.
We are ruled by a minority, less than 1% and that is not an issue is it? Ralph Schoenman has restated that that richest one-percent has 95% of the national wealth. How about a National Referendum on that?
Meanwhile what, more futility and more wars of aggression, somehow that is complicity too. We are not confronting who we need to.
Palosi is true enemy, just like Rockefeller, Kissinger, and Brzeinski, and their minions, which includes the Clintons, Obamas, Bushs, and if there are exceptions, I have not heard them. We can not honesty separate the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq from 9/11 - nor can the establishment, it is there trump card for everything.
Therefore, we must take it on frontally, as well as the concentration of wealth and high treason in office.
Bill
We may be fighting for our egos in Iraq,
but we’re not fighting for our freedoms.
U Brew,
We, the people are not fighting in Iraq whatsoever. It is the duped and mercenary, and they are at diverse objectives. The young gullible and soon to be war criminals, are not necessarily on ego trips whatsoever. They are victims of apathy in the classrooms, in the family living room, and locker room. Who tells them truth anyhow? That is how they are sucked into the imperial war machine, of which the poets and and other forms of art warm.
I am lucky, for I too was duped, I enlisted airborne during the Cuban Missile Crisis, all brought on by our liberal Kennedy administration in fact. The cold war was a bogus as is the war on terrorism or drugs, or if it was a problem to those high above, mother love!
As a women you might know more about men, than men. Our egos depend on pleasing you. Not beating the shit out of another man. So, darling you ladies hold the trump card to what men do for their macho self-actualization. Are you following?
During WWII, women were brought into the psychologically into the “war effort” and men without a uniform, were not worth fuc.ing. That is a power that belong to the young, and during Viet Nam is spoke truth powerfully, of which I am a witness. Add DU to the mix, and it is a matter of survival, you do not want to have for a father anyone who has spent time in Iraq or Afghanistan! This is an under reported and responded to monstrosity of these illegal wars. It is the most under-reported war crime in the world. The destruction of DNA, producing babies unlike the world has ever known.
I encountered my first “pro-war” person at the protest in San Francisco last month. He was an older rather heavy-set man who wouldn’t come any closer than 15′ away while we talked. The conversation went something like this:
“I think ya’ll are just disgraceful… you’re alll a bunch of assholes… fucking un-american”
“Why would you say that sir?”
“Because you don’t support our troops who are fighting for our freedoms”
“They’re fighting in Iraq sir, how do you figure that Iraq threatened our freedoms?”
“They came and blowed us up. And they’d do it again if we weren’t there fighting…”
“Sir, Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 if that’s what you mean. They have never posed a direct threat to “us.”
“They come and blowed us up.”
“No sir, 19 of those hijackers were Saudis.”
“All them Arabs are the same.”
“No sir, they are not. They are two completely different religions an…”
“Ya’ll ‘r a bunch of assholes.”
__ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ __
This was a very frightening reality. I had heard that some people actually believed that crap, but I had never encountered one quite so uneducated, so directly before. I have heard others say that about “all those rag-heads are the same”
Lord help us all
Iraq/Iran= axis of OIL
Bush/Cheney= OIL men
Lies= crimes against Humanity
There needs to be an anti, anti-anti-war protesters protest group, that protests against those protesting against protesters.
Umlaut: I was thinking of joining them actually. Here are a few examples of signs I would like to make and protest with these ‘pro-war’ demonstrators…
“Bush lied us into war; SO WHAT, we -NEED- that oil!”
“Illegal Occupation? Mammon needs blood, I need cheap gas; that’s WIN - WIN!”
“Jesus was an anti-war commie pinko. Satanists For War.”
“Blood for the Blood God! Fuel for my SUV!”
“Since the troops are fighting for our freedoms, we should make protesting the war illegal”
or, while wearing a business suit and sporting a briefcase:
“They’re fighting for my freedom to loot IRA accounts”
“The war has been good to me, what are you anti-war protesters, POOR or something?”
… that’s all I have off the top of my head this early morning.
Now come-on CDers.
Our country can only come together through common ground, moderation, and respect for all.
That is why Hillary is the best candidate.
Hillary while maintaining a different (although unknown) position from these pro-war protesters can effect the necessary commmon-ground, and even bipartisanship, by openly working with all segments; Democrats, independents, and even modeate Republicans, to forge a way forward for all Americans —- and she can do this because she has the experience and track record of bipartisanship to be President on Day One.
Of course, Hillary’s skill and proven experience in papering over real conflicts in this two-party ‘Vichy’ government which stands as a facade for the real ruling-elite ‘corporatist Empire’ does have the downside of making her look like the same sort of vague, vacuous, and gutless liar as the other party triangulator, John McCain, who is also a total tool for the empire —- but to many Americans that is not a bad thing, but rather the comforting sort of belief in pseudo-democracy that our ‘corporatist Vichy media’ likens to bringing “excitement to a presidential campaign”.
Obama in contrast will also work to forge a new opportunity of ‘hope’ for all Americans, but his ability to genuinely work across party lines for mutual solutions is not as tested and proven on day one as is Hillary’s triangulation success in BSing all ‘factions’ of the rubes —– and Obama, although initially fully vetted by the very same ‘corporatist Empire’, is now implied to be possibly dangerous and radical by the very same ‘Vichy’ media, because he once knew some radical preachers and former bomb-throwing weathermen.
However, any such apprehension by the ‘corporatist Empire’ that their third-candidate choice (who they ‘hoped’ would defuse any real third-party movement) is totally uncalled for — since Obama would not say (or do anything) radical even if he had a mouth full of it, and will continue to be ‘hopelessly’ loyal to the very same ‘corporatist Empire’ even as they gut him.
And so it goes.
Minor disagreements among the rubes who call themselves left vs right, Dem vs. Rep, anti-war vs. patriotic, liberal vs. conservative, etc. vs. etc. —- and all the while the ‘corporatist Empire’ continues to rope-a-dope (the dope being us), while no real anti-Empire movement and party has a chance of getting any traction in this slippery mud of a ‘Vichy’ facade spread over the field of politics like a thick coat of bull-shit to protect the hidden Empire/umpire who maintains a total ‘fix’ on this charade of a ‘game’.
Americans can’t think, they are spoon fed crap from the boob tube, and the elites like it that way. Just follow the bouncing ball and get your talking points from the talking heads and turn your mental facilities off. We know better than you, we have more information because we don’t disseminate it. Yup, americans are brave as hell especially when their ass isn’t getting shot, bombed, and renditioned. Iraq posed, and poses no threat to the US, end of story. Dying over there is just that dying over there. I feel sorry for the vets, I see them each and every week at the VA hospital any of you go there? Didn’t think so. Keep on drinking the Kool Aid, it will numb you enough and when you wake up, we will be at war with Iran and you can wash, rinse, repeat for Syria. Sheeple might be too kind of a word to describe the knuckle dragging mouth breathers that make up the majority of this countries population. Ignorant flag wavers need to get some eye opening experiences, so sign up today they need bullet stoppers desperately. Let’s not forget to vote for more money for the VA this session too, can’t repair them without money. This is just too stupid to waste time on.
“Our country can only come together through common ground, moderation, and respect for all.
“That is why Hillary is the best candidate.”
Huh?
Who does Senator Clinton respect with her vote for pre-emptive war and her DLC corporatist ties and “obliterate Iran” commentary?
Puh-lease!
Yes, let’s see our commonality — I just don’t see Senator Clinton doing that. Hey, she’s not even listening to us NY peace activists.
Also, let’s all try to be more FOR peace than anti-war.
Lets go to war with China, so Tibet can have the freedom it wants, and we have.
I contnue to be mystified by the ignorant, misguided comments of someone like Douglas Fuller: “Guys over there are fighting for the freedoms we have here….” Troops “over there” are maintaining a discredited occupation that has absolutely no goal except vaguely justifying the illegal war launched by Bush and Cheney. Its early justifications (weapons of mass destruction, 9/11, etc) fell apart within months, but Americans are gullible where it comes to nonsense like “protecting freedoms” and “promoting democracy”. We are doing nothing but propping up a weak regime, inciting anti-Americanism, endangering the lives of Americans, and amassing a titanic debt for our descendants to struggle with. God bless Code Pink and other patriotic groups that demonstrate in the cause of peace.
Yup, that’s the spirit fedayeen. You’re really going to change peoples minds by insulting them. I know every time someone insinuates that I’m a blithering idiot because I was born in the USA I feel this irresistible urge to agree with his/her point of view.
Gotyour attention though didn’t it. Considered and intelligent points presented are usually shouted down, just figured that it might bring something else to see, insulting to those born in the US. Hell if the current crop of politicians aren’t insulting enough to americans I cannot insult them enough. Heard of the republicans? Insulting to say the least, heard of the democrats? Insulting in so many ways. If americans get angry at being insulted it might make a difference, but they are so brain dead that they can’t think past the latest BS tripe presented to them by their corporate masters. Miley Cyrus? A fifteen year old Billionaire that shows a little skin on Vanity Fair and the news is all agog about that crap. Nope I think you doth protest too much, or not enough. Instead of dissing me, you might consider saying good by to the late great US of A and thinking about what comes next. I am not the enemy, just a voice, sort of like you. If I offended you or anyone else into thinking for a change then my work here is done.
They’re fighting because they’re ignoramuses. Most of them probably are too backward to hold a normal job; even fewer will be functional when they return.
“I’m here to support our soldiers,” said Beverly Perlson, founder of the group Band of Mothers.
There are a hundred and sixty thousand soldiers in Iraq because they don’t know any better. They are criminals. They’re in violation of a lot of laws, U.S. and international. They have killed 1.3 million Iraqis with whom I had no quarrel.
“They want to see us lose. I don’t understand this,” Perlson said, after a heated exchange with CODEPINK supporters.
Really? Who is killing them? Is it me who is killing the soldiers with my lousy attitude? Or is it the pro-war, pro-Bush crowd with their mindless “support the troops” mantra? That’s what sent them there. My advice to them was to never go to Iraq. But now that they’re there, I hope they decide to stay there. Maybe they could try the French Foreign Legion next. I really prefer that they not return. They’ll only become cops and employees of Homeland Security - nut cases with guns.
fedayeen, pissing off the Americans who post here is not the way to get attention. Any “considered intelligent points” you made got lost behind your holier than thou attitude. The Americans who frequent this site are (usually) the ones trying to make a difference. Making us feel like dog shit because we are stuck with a runaway government isn’t going to make the situation any better. Do you think I voted for Bush? Do you think reminding me that I’m facing the nearly impossible task of rousing my countrymen is going to strengthen my resolve? I have enough government officials and giant corportions to be pissed at already, I don’t need someone like you diverting my ire from the people who deserve it most.
Kate Anne: amacd was being sarcastic.
“An issue frequently raised by protesters was $650,000 raised by CODEPINK for humanitarian aid in Iraq. Protesters maintain the money made its way to Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah. Benjamin said the donations were used for medicine and goods given to Fallujah refugees, especially women and children.”
Why has no one yet pointed out the extreme danger posed by these allegations not only to Medea Benjamin herself, but to everyone who has contributed anything to the organization or donated any of the $650,000 in humanitarian aid raised by Code Pink? Under the recent Bush proclamation, anyone found to be aiding the insurgents in Iraq or harming the American effort there IS SUBJECT TO HAVING THEIR ASSETS SEIZED WITHOUT NOTICE AND IS ALSO SUBJECT TO BEING JAILED AS A TRAITOR! This includes not only the head of the organization but ANYONE WHO HAS EVER DONATED TO IT, WHETHER OR NOT THEY KNEW THE MONEY “WAS GOING TO AID INSURGENTS IN FALLUJAH”.
For God’s sake people, WAKE UP!! This is exactly the kind of scenario that should worry us: that the Bush gvmt. will use this new policy in order to confiscate the property of anti-war protesters, lock them up and throw away the key! And yet no one has mentioned it, unless I somehow blew right by the posting.
What do you think?
Make these prowar fools view tapes and videos of the thousands of Iraqi children andf families who have been murdered. Force these fools to frequent and tour VA hospitals and make these deluded bigots take a tour of Iraq on the ground. Any woman who lionizes war is not just a fool but one who lacks not only brains but a heart. Freedom for Iraq, my ass. More civilians have been murdered in this illegal war than in WWI and WWII and Vietnam. Any woman who joins the military and then brags about her stars and etc. is a disgrace to womanhood.
prairiedog, good idea. Since we Americans are now “freedom fighters,” we must fight China to get freedom for Tibet.