Paul.. I feel you, I'm fed up to. But please, don't stop voting. There's solution, a way to protest the two party system and still vote. (important local races/proposals that are on all our ballots make voting necessary)

Vote for a third party! Come on people, I've had enough. I'm so fed up with this "Nader gave Bush the election" and "voting Green is a wasted vote" bullshit. Imagine if just all the people fed up in this blog voted their conscience, and got a few friends to. We can't keep voting for the Dems out of fear.

Wake up, did anyone expect anything different out of the Dems? There's a reason I didn't vote for them, even last time around. Because I didn't expect them to stop the war. Why did any of you? Just because they said so?

At least when whackjobs like Bush are in power, America wears the truth about its real interests openly, and more and more people get fed up. What do you think the Dems will do if half their base votes Green? They'll take action! And what do you think the American public will do if, as a result, we end up with four more years of Republicans degenerating the name of the U.S. and tearing apart the constitution. They'll revolt!

We need more than a Dem as president. We need a revolution! We need campaign finance reform! We need instant run-off voting! We need politicians who will stand up for the environment!

There is only one way to waste a vote, and that's by voting for a candidate you only half believe in. It's time to stop treating elections as popularity contests. If next election, everyone voted their heart, a third party could win.

How do you want to vote?

goner, i quoted your excellent passage in a letter to the editor. thank you. i added the point that our federal government should be moving this swiftly in forwarding the people's business such as leaving iraq and providing universal health care for citizens.

I'm too incensed to write an additional reply, but MRFOAD has said it all for me. Thanks.

The straw man of the month, MoveOn.org

Agreed Startreklivz,

I recently moved to a repub-suburb district of Tim Murphy, but the person I still consider "my" congressman - the nominally progressive Mike Doyle, voted for it too. It was attached to a bill with too many important funding provisions - including child healthcare and student aid money. But like I wrote earlier, what part of this bill will the democrats's potential progressive base remember?

Did anyone notice that the condemnatory resolution was attached to a funding bill that needed to be passed? It was not a stand-alone resolution, like the one the Senate passed. While I'm disappointed my own Congressman, normally a reliable progressive, voted for it, I'd be willing to bet it was because of the main part of the bill, not this tack-on. And it was a dirty tricky to tack this thing on.

Where is the US incarnation of Von Stauffenberg when we need him?

It's time for us, if not the congress to condemn General Betray Us, and do it in equivalents of the committees of correspondence in response to another George, George III.

I'm coming around to the conclusion that our system is so terribly broken that for the first time since turning 18, I may not actually vote this time around. The whole system reeks of illegitimacy. As they say: voting only encourages them.

Indeed, until we've got Range/IRV, no electronic voting, federally financed elections, and most of the MSM in jail for propagandizing, I really see little point in voting in their system. Voting apparently isn't the way to get these modernizations. It may be merely an illusion tossed out there that democracy has been served (manufactured consent), but with no change possible.

Secession, Article V, a people's congress, etc. are different matters.

What upsets me most about this is that Congress finds time to debate trivial stuff like this, but can't find the time or backbone to do the peoples work. We send them to Congress to work together to find solutions to the problems facing us, not to sit around with their fingers up their butts doing nothing.

Maybe it's time to elect an entirely new Congress. If you are in Congress, I don't want you back! I'm willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Any regular person on the street will be able to do a better job.

Petraeus ate a booger at the Senate hearings, but apparently all the networks cut away from it.
Read all about it here

What a bunch of cry babies. Maybe they should send Patraeus a tissue?

Does anybody really believe the problem with the war in Iraq is TOO MUCH questioning of those in authority, too much bluntness, and not enough deference to those who have been in charge of the war for the last four years?

That's apparently the feeling of all the neo-conservative talk-show hosts and GOP presidential candidates who came down with conniptions over the MoveOn ad that had the audacity to question Gen. David Petraeus.

Tens of thousands of dead civilians, nearly 4,000 dead American soldiers, half a trillion dollars spent, and the squandering of America's moral authority and "good guy" image in the world— none of that seems to have ruffled their feathers very much. But the ad? Now that has got them royally steamed.

Rudy Giuliani(Mr 9-11 himself) is up in arms, railing against "character assassination on an American general who is putting his life at risk." John McCain thinks "MoveOn.org ought to be thrown out of this country." Even Don Rumsfeld popped his head out of his rectum to blast the ad.

What I would like to ask of those people like Bush, Guliani and the neo-conservative talk show hosts… is "Where was this respect for patriotism and honor of all the OTHER GENERALS that have spoken out in the past five years?"

General Scowcroft, who said invading Iraq was a bad idea and would be certain to DIVERT us for some indefinite period from our WAR ON TERRORISM.

General Shinseki, who was fired when he said the invasion of Iraq would require 400,000 soldiers to do the job correctly…

General Zinni, who said "Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time - with the wrong strategy"…

General John Abazaid who said "Our doctrine is not right. It's just not right. I mean, there are so many things that are out there that aren't right in the way that we operate for this war. And there are a lot of systems that are wrong out there that we had better fix if we're going to beat this enemy."

… or General Schwartzkopf, General Sheehan, General Swannick, General Clark and all of the others who have spoken out against the administration's orchestration of the Iraq fiasco?

What about the Republican Smear Machine that attacked all of those generals???

Bush and Guliani have built their political futures on a foundation of gravestones… first the gravestones of the 9-11 victims, and now the gravestones of nearly 4000 of our soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Using what clearly appears to be feel-good cherry-picked information, General Patraeus is helping to prop up Bush's determined goal of establishing a beachhead in the middle of a bitter and hostile land… a goal that has PROVEN to be a fool's mission… and they are doing it with the support of flag-waving neo-con fools in the media…

Any true American should stand up and tell ALL of them NO!

A sad day in America.

So far we have about 52 condemning the House in this blog alone.

I suspect the Democrats are counting a little too heavily on all these Republicans voting for them in 2008. They are going to need those GOP voters when their Democratic base abandons them.

BAC:

They'll have to tread carefully. If they define a terrorist organization as one which:

* Creates training grounds for more terrorists.
* Wrecks the US economy.
* Smears world opinion of the US.
* Curtails our liberties, due process, our rights.
* Resorts to violence to achieve political ends.
etc...

Then such a list might include more organizations than they've bargained for. Better stick to naming them by names, and not by means of a laundry list of attributes.

Maybe we owe Germany an official apology for the Nuremberg Trials.

I never thought my country would degenerate so quickly, emulating what our fathers, brothers, uncles, and grandfathers fought against in World War Two.

For the zillionth time, "ignorance is not bliss, it is unforgivable", because "when the vast majority let a small minority do the thinking for them, tyranny sets in".

Even my congressman voted with the majority against MoveOn, and my two female senators have been Bush 'enablers' since 2001.

I have more respect for General Irwin Rommel and Colonel Klaus Von Stauffenberg then I do for Feinstein and Boxer. When they finally realized what the 'madman' was doing to their country, these soldiers, with 2000 others took action to salvage their country but failed and paid the ultimate price.

""Such unwarranted attacks should be strongly condemned by Republicans and Democrats alike," said Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Calif., during brief debate on the resolution."

Jerry Lewis, with his spectacular antics, has always been one of my favorite comedians!

Kucinich, true to the end.

You know though, I have been thinking about the whole first amendment thing. And since I do not support the idea of corporate personhood, and MoveOn is, after all, a non-profit corporation(I think?) then I guess I am not completely sure an organization has the right to free speech. Then again, as long as it is good for the likes of Bechtel, Exxon, and the Swifties, I guess it is on for MoveOn.

Any thoughts on the issue of corporate personhood within this context?

What a complete waste of time and national resources. What a total non-issue. I need to find a list of the 341 bum-hugers who signed this thing. I expect this sort of thing from repugs, and I guess I should not be surprised by the dims who supported it, after all this does so much more for the troops than, say bringing them home would.

Every time I think I am totally fed up with politics, something like this comes along to show me that I can be even angrier, AAARRRGGGGHHHHH!

And just when I have written MoveOn.org off as not worthy of my support, well I guess I shall send them some money after all.

time to send more money to Moveon.org and volunteer to recruit more members.

And the Government approves political censorship AGAIN! And the Dems backed it. Can anyone say"We've been had"? So we weren't using those First Amendment Rights much anyway, were we?

BetrayUs is too mild a name... he is General War Criminal.

Anyone who participates in a war crime is a war criminal. An illegal war of aggression is a war crime. got it?

We have really gone down the Rabbit Hole this time where I now know that everyone is Mad and things get curiouser and curiouser and right becomes wrong and lying becomes heroic.

This republican propaganda machine is very effective at playing three card monty, their slight of hand seems to work over and over again, they just play the patriotic support the troops card and they have the country shouting off with their heads, referring to the MoveOn truth squad.

Can anyone honestly state that we have not been lied to and bullied and coerced with misinformation into a disastrous war?

The General in essence betrayed his loyalty to the American people and the constitution and allowed himself like Colin Powell before him to compromise his principles and distort the truth just to please his boss and perhaps his presidential ambitions.

Condemn the MoveOn ad, I think not.
In fact I would award them the presidential metal of freedom except giving it to people like Tenet has tarnished its significance.

The Dems are still running scared and this is how we got into trouble in the first place with jingoistic saber rattling support the troops or you are an unpatriotic trader to the country. And it obviously still works.

Did Pelosi vote on this? We need to stop the frapping war, not free speech. Now MoveOn is going to get money from me I wasn't planning to give and can't afford - but I can't NOT afford to cave in to this behavior on the part of our elected officials. What a black day for America.

"We have really gone down the Rabbit Hole this time where I now know that everyone is Mad and things get curiouser and curiouser and right becomes wrong and lying becomes heroic."

Yup, at the rate and velocity of such madness, I suppose it would be unsurprising if Congress soon adds Moveon.org to the list of terrorist organizations.....

Someone please explain why if I give money to the Democratic party and they win the elections in 2008 that this will be a better country? As a result of today's vote, I would say that they just want my money and have dropped their other plans. I'd like to pledge never to give money to a Democrat again, but my representative (Capps) voted against the above resolution. As one of the 79 honest members of Congress, I guess she deserves support.

As soon as I saw the ad, I logged into Moveon.org and sent another small contribution. It's one of the few organizations able to gain attention with the truth.

Look at it this way:
If that lying sack of crap imitation President is howling, and that pack of corporate-owned sluts called the Senate are howling, and now the "Refuse to Impeach" warmongers called the US House are howling, Move-On may have become the true voice of the American PEOPLE!

All of my representation in Washington: 1 Congressman, 2 Senators, and 1 "President", have united against the PEOPLE they serve. Its mutiny! They are just hired help. WE are the captains of this drifting Ship of State. We need to get the mutineers in chains before our ship crashes into any more innocent countries.

There IS a peaceful and effective way to get the mutineers out of our Pilothouse. Talk, talk, talk, with your friends, neighbors, even former enemies. Talk so much about the society that we are building that nobody hears, or even remembers, washington deceive. It will become just a bad dream from some past night. Make it the town of vipers that everyone forgot. WE, THE PEOPLE, built a country here before. Surely we can do it again. How about a traveling Capitol this time, like the way the World's Fair moves about? Every few years the tipi of Government would be packed up and moved, leaving cockroach infestations like "K" Street and entrenched power left behind.

General Petraeus is the reincarnation of Heinrich Himmler!

Make that a headline MoveOn.org. Give the USA Government a REAL reason to denounce Freedom of Speech.

"Such unwarranted attacks should be strongly condemned by Republicans and Democrats alike,"

President Bush called the ad "disgusting"...

There seems to be such a huge gap between our "representatives" and us. We're the little people - the cooks, the car mechanics, the volunteer soldiers, the expendables. They're too important to be insulted. We're stupid IED targets.

The Congress just can't seem to understand our outrage at this president & his war, at our ineffectual "representatives", at their lies. They just can't seem to put themselves in our shoes. This doesn't feel like democracy folks.

This government is an affront to decency and to the very spirit of democracy. It deserves to be flung on the ash heap of history. When a more decent society is built to replace this gang of disgusting criminals, a special part of the public school curriculum should be a mandatory course explaining to young people why the first American Republic died.

Note that the vermin of the Democratic Party supported today's atrocity against free speech, by 146-70.

At consortiumnews.com, there appears today an edited transcript of recent remarks by Daniel Ellsberg, one of the few truth-tellers we have left. It's titled "A Coup has Occurred."

Please remember that this was attached to a continuing funding authority bill that included things like additional funding for child healthcare program.

I wonder how many democrats justified their vote by convincing themselves that to remove the symbolic attcachment would be futile anyway and only delay passage of important funding authorization. Well, their constituents will only remember the amendment, not the fiunding for this and that obscure agancy.

And in breaking news, the senate Lieberman - Iran Amendment to the funding bill just passed 76 to 22. This designates the Iran military forces as "international terrorists" and authorizes any action against them.

But while reading through it - get this amendment by Coleman and Nelson:

Section 857 of title 10, United States Code (article 57 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), is amended--

(1) in subsection (c), by adding at the end the following new sentence: ``However, in the case of a sentence of death, the convening authority shall delay execution of sentence to the extent necessary to prevent the death of an innocent child in utero.''; and

(2) by adding at the end the following new subsections:

``(d) Protection of Innocent Child in Utero in Execution of Sentence of Death.--It shall be unlawful for any authority, military or civil, of the United States, a State, or any district, possession, commonwealth or other territory under the authority of the United States to carry out a sentence of death on a woman while she carries an innocent child in utero.

``(e) Innocent Child in Utero Defined.--In this section, the term `innocent child in utero' means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.''

Two questions:

Did Gen (?) Petracus just before the 2004 Presidental election write a column for the Washington Post backing Bush's war. Answer: Yes. That is taboo for the military to inject itself into a President Election. It is a BETRAYAL to the uniform the military and the country.

Did Gen (?) Petracus when he testified before Congress lie about the numbers and his so called surge? Yes, does this not mean that he BETRAYed the country. Yes again

Then the little problem of "free speach." Forgot again there is none in the USA.

The congress is so scared of the Israeli lobby they can't even think straight.

So here comes the WAR with IRAN just what they want except we sent our military to fight it. Also our money which we do not have and with Japan and China not buy our worthless bonds who in hell will pay the bills?

Also we should not forget Adm. Fallon's statment that Gen Betrayus is a chicken shit and ass kiss. Fallon is his boss.

Goner -- exactly.

Frank 1569 -- yes, logical next move is more ads with even more aggression in them as the first one clearly "upset all the right people" (as Chomsky puts it).

Paul B -- good stuff.

If MoveOn has a fund set aside specifically for these types of expressions of the public sentiment, I will contribute and offer suggestions.

I condemn my political representatives for allowing one million Iraquis to be killed in an immoral and illegal war for oil.

I think my condemnation is a bit more serious than a condemnation for calling someone a name.

Let's remember what the US government has stood for in the past: slavery and no vote for women. They may have power but that does not mean they are right or moral.

kittyladyoregon: You thought your representative represented YOU?! WOW! P.T. barnum was right. The only 'people' they represent is the corporate interests who bought them off long ago.

Goner: Free speech is dead. Bushco is just waiting for the right event to start rounding up the dissidents...

Why was Nancy Pelosi not listed as voting - yea or nay or even not voting?

Did she actually not vote, or was a mistake made in the listing?

I lived in Pelosi's district at one time.

The government has condemned MoveOn as though it were an enemy, not as an organization that is comprised of U.S. citizens. They are condemning the citizens for voicing an opinion. As they say, it's the job of the citizens to criticize the government, not the other way around. This resolution is an unconstitutional repression of free speech. To incorporate it into the Congressional Record is an abomination of the principles this country is supposed to be founded on.

I checked to see what my representative did on this. She voted for it. I just called her office and left a blistering message about her inability to understand the US Constitution. I suggested that she read it once in a while to make sure she can understand what she is doing. She is a Dem, for whose campaign I will not be working this election in 2008. In fact, Green Party, here I come.

Aaaaaaand the death of free speech is confirmed.

'We're boned.Thank you and goodnight.' - Bender the Robot, Futurama

Could be that the Constitution:Govt relationship is going the way of the Ten Commandments:Medieval Church analogy. Even the most self-professed fierce advocates of the Church (the Jesuits) were instrumental in getting people excommunicated (the opposite of forgiven), if not burnt at the stake.

The sad news is that it's possible to pay lip-service to ideals, while sustaining the illusion of fierce advocacy of them, for centuries.

I guess what's unclear in my mind is a couple things. How much of the reaction from government was prompted by:
A) The name-calling rhyme ""Betrayus".
B) The criticism directed to a military general (political as he is), rather than toward a politician (militaristic as some of them are).
vs.
C) The policy of the war more broadly.

This is not a "left" movement by any stretch -- there are those on the right, center, in the streets, and across broad sections of America which oppose this war, and the new one to come.

But I do think the anti-war movement, in general, is not well-served by name-calling. We need to be better than the right/up in this regard. Let the Limbaughs be the "masters" of name-calling.

I wonder what my rep will say when The General retires and would come out and say "I did and said what I was ordered". Never the less I will contact my Rep, who voted for this, and have him explain how why he voted the way he did. It did have "OR" in it. Which let's the reader decide!

No shit. At least with this kind of attention the ad is getting a lot more exposure than they paid for. No such thing as bad publicity as they say. I sent Move On an email telling them thanks for running the ad.

As said... Swift Boat Veterans weren't condemned, so obviously this is very backwards. No speech should be condemned. You attack the idea, not the act of speaking the idea.

And over 80% of Americans presently hold the House and Senate in total contempt. Now, if we were Rove, what would we do next?... Hmmm... Run more ads that make the last one look like a nursery rhyme? Add some viral elements in key states? Demand Admiral Fallon testify - and tell us, first, why he sent a minion he despises to lie to the Senate, instead of demanding his Command Authority be recognized first and foremost?

Side note: Ms. Spears may not agree with the any press is good press theory at this point... or Vick... or OJ... or Kiefer... or Mel... or Lindsay... or Craig... or Blackwater...

The funny thing is that all this attention has made Moveon.org even more popular. This would be the time to do a huge fundraiser.

I guess its true that all press is good press...

It's call oligarchical collectivism.

Those profiting from this war saw a sliver of truth shine through all their blatant lies in this MoveOn.org ad and they had to put blind folds on the American people.

This congressional resolution is a means to control dissent and shows that the true allegiance of the American government representatives is to the continuation of war.

Okay folks, let's try to make democracy work here.

In the next election, if your representative is a caving Democrat, support their challenger in the primary. Make them fight to keep their jobs by showing them that if they don't do what we hired them to do, we can fire them.

Put some fire under their arses!

The public not only believes it has been betrayed by Bush and any of his agents, of which Petraeus is obviously one, but in condemning MoveOn.org Congress confirms what the public suspects -- that Congress is complicit in the betrayal of the American trust, in betrayal of our system of government which is designed as a representative democracy.

I'm thinkin' that being bad-mouthed by a Congress that's rated lower than whale shit is a good thing. Way to go, MoveOn.org!

The resolution was attached to a stopgap measure funding Cabinet budgets until mid-November.!!! Just like the effing Lieberman Kyle amendment is hidden in the defense appropriations bill...but in the house, who stuck it in the bill? In 2008, the Democrats should be replaced by patriotic citizens sick of this bullcrap. We deserve the truth!

I used live in Congressman Obey's district. Any resident of WI's 7th CD is familiar with the gruff, irritable, argumentative, yet passionately progressive Dave Obey who's represented them for almost 40 years (he's one of the most senior members of the House). He is one of the only Congressional Democrats who speaks his mind bluntly and sincerely and doesn't give a damn what any pollster or consultant thinks. I have no doubt that his above comments are sincere. While I disagree with his vote and his commentary on this idiotic resolution, I at least respect the fact that it was made out of conviction and not just pandering (like probably all 340 other "yeas")

I'm glad the House took this up and voted on it, seeing as how this is a down time where there is really nothing of any greater significance happening at home or abroad at this point in history.

Folks, this is further evidence that our elected officials do not believe in democracy. If the Democratic-controlled House had anything to say about MoveOn.org, it should be that it is exercising it's first amendment rights in a true spirit of free thought that aligns with the American idea, and then go on to say that the message itself is juvenile and perhaps not constructive, if that's what it believes.

Congress is going to see its approval rating continue to fall with this. Do the Representatives give a lick? It seems the answer is no.

That means we are not living in a democracy today, folks. What is it? It's an authoritarian structure of some kind, centered on the power of the unitary executive (Bush-Cheney), and supported by a sort of aristocratic court, like the Russian boyars.

One extreme form of authoritarianism is fascism. You would have to argue we have been heading in that direction unequivocally since 9/11, with evidence mounting daily.

Congress trying to tell the people how to think is another data point to add to the pile of evidence that indicates authoritarianism.

I've seen a lot of loads of crap come out of this fascist un-government, but this takes the cake. Millions of Americans should print out the MoveOn add and flood congressional mailboxes with them.

they cant question the Generals in Burma either....

Right on Mary Lou...Move-On should print the record of the vote in the New York Times!

I'm in shock like the above posters. They'll condemn an ad but not a war based on a pack of lies. Fantastic stuff.

This assault on free speech by Congress is matched by its just recent inability to reinstitute habeas corpus as is guaranteed in the Constitution.
So really they are nothing if not consistent in their disdain for rights and freedoms and the Constitution...
The MoveOn condemnation is chickensh#t compared to that. But you didn't hear a peep about it in the news.

where is the record of the vote? i want to know what my rep did. my freedom of speech is the first thing in the constitution.

Rep. Obey has got it backwards. For several decades the Republican propaganda machine has been initiating and repeating one juvenile soundbite and myth after another to the extent that many of those soundbites and myths are considered facts. Democratic Party criticism has been limited and rarely vigorous.

There is ample evidence that General Betrayus IS betraying everybody in the US except for those who are profiting from the Iraq occupation. Move-on's perception of General Betrayus is therefore neither unwarranted or juvenile.

If Rep. Obey believes that "lawmakers have an obligation to criticize their allies as well as their enemies", why is he so quick to criticize his allies when he has not criticized his enemies ?

Congress has done nothing but sit on it's big fat butt since the Nov 2006 election. When they are finally able to agree on anything it's to condemn free speech. Nice.
Now you're completely and utterly worthless.

When the Swift Boat and Max Clevand attacks happened, the Republicans didn't condem them. The Democrats should condem the MoveOn Ad. Think of what Powell did at the UN. He should have been condemned. In time, we will truly see Petraus Betrayed Us in the same way more and more people who could have spoken out earlier didn't.

I hope every Democrat who voted for this is replaced by another Democrat, but that is just a dream isn't it.

a Pox on BOTH Houses of Congress. Constitutional Nit-Wits ! Phd Lawyers who haven't the sense God gave Turtles !
Try actually reading the 1st Amendement... Oh, that's right, they don't even have Time to read the Bills they are signing... especially the Un-Patriot Act, the Un-Fisa Law, and the Un-War "Authorization"
We have utter mendacity at All levels of our government...and I use that term very loosely.
Time for a New Order of the Ages.

Everything is truly upside down. The liars run rampant while the truthtellers are condemned.

Juvenile debate? What's juvenile about pointing out we are being fed a pack of Presidentially sponsered lies ONCE AGAIN? What IS juvenile is having some General address Congress because you are too cowardly and hated to do it yourself.