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Emails Show Panic Within US Nuke Agency in Wake of Fukushima Disaster
US experts for Nuclear Regulatary Commission disagreed over best way to contain ongoing nuclear disaster
Emails posted on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's (NRC) website show an agency that was ill-informed about the state of the crisis taking place at the failing Fukushima nuclear plant last year in Japan. The emails reveal some of the mitigation plans advisors to the NRC were contemplating, show an agency reluctant to share its own research on spent fuel pools, and unwilling to articulate worst-case scenarios, including a nuclear fallout plan for Alaska.
'Fog of information': U.S. experts said they were not getting accurate details of the scope of the Fukushima disaster after reactors melted down last year. (AP)
The Washington Post reports:
The NRC e-mails reveal disagreement about how to advise the Japanese. The NRC staff chafed at some unorthodox advice coming from an ad hoc group of scientists assembled by Energy Secretary Steven Chu. Famed physicist Richard Garwin, one of Chu’s group, proposed setting off a controlled “shaped” explosion to break through the concrete shield around the primary steel containment structure to allow cooling water to be applied from the outside. One NRC scientist called the idea “madness.”
Another idea from the Chu group was to attempt a “junk shot” — a variation on what some engineers proposed to stop the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico — to plug leaks of radioactive water from Fukushima’s nuclear reactors into the sea. When using a mixture of sawdust, newspapers and other junk failed, Japan’s Tepco ultimately used a compound known as liquid glass.
“The e-mails provide a candid picture of the level of uncertainty and confusion within the U.S. government and indicates that even U.S. experts had major divisions about what was going on and how to best mitigate the crisis,” said Edwin Lyman, a senior scientist and nuclear expert at the Union of Concerned Scientists.
And The Daily Mail reports:
The agency was asked by several countries about pools used to house spent nuclear reactor fuel. [...]
France, Germany and Japan sought access to NRC information on the pools on March 17, but it was reluctant to share the data over fears of potential attacks on reactors triggered by the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Mr Lyman added: 'There is a whole base of information about spent fuel fires and pools that the NRC is not sharing with the public.
'We understand that when you're concerned about terrorist attacks that you want to conceal information, but I don't think there's any reason to maintain such a broad blackout over this type of information.'
Other emails reveal people in the U.S. calling for all nuclear power stations to be temporarily shut so tests could be carried out as well as Freedom of Information Act requests for details of correspondence on Fukushima.
The emails, available on the NRC website, also reveal concerns over a U.S. reactor similar to one of the stricken units at Fukushima.
And The Washington Post story adds:
While assuring Americans publicly that there was no danger [to those living in the United States], the NRC did not disclose one worst-case scenario, which did not rule out the possibility of radiation exceeding safe levels for thyroid doses in Alaska, the e-mails show. “Because things were uncertain, we considered it but the data that was available . . . did not support that very pessimistic scenario so no, it was not discussed publicly at that point,” NRC spokesman Scott Burnell said. In the end, Alaska was not affected.
***
Rising temperatures at Fukushima raise questions over stability of nuclear plant
Tests were ordered on all Japanese nuclear plants after the Fukushima disaster. (Photograph: Kyodo/Reuters)
The Guardian reported late Tuesday:
Workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant say they are regaining control of a reactor after its temperature rose dramatically this week, casting doubt on government claims that the facility has been stabilised.
The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power [Tepco] was forced to increase the amount of cooling water being injected into the No 2 reactor after its temperature soared to 73.3C earlier this week.
By Tuesday night, the temperature had dropped to 68.5C at the bottom of the reactor's containment vessel, where molten fuel is believed to have accumulated after three of Fukushima Daiichi's six reactors suffered meltdown after last year's tsunami disaster.
The temperature at the bottom of the No 2 reactor vessel had risen by more than 20C in the space of several days, although it remained below the 93C limit the US nuclear regulatory commission sets for a safe state known as cold shutdown. Tepco said it had also injected water containing boric acid to prevent a nuclear chain reaction known as re-criticality.
***
Nobel Winner Oe Urges Japan to Decommission Nuclear Reactors
Author Keiko Ochiai, journalist Satoshi Kamata and Nobel literature laureate Kenzaburo Oe prepare to speak to reporters in Tokyo, February 8, 2012. (Photo: VOA - S. L Herman)
And Bloomberg reports on the growing anti-nuclear movement in Japan:
Japan should decide quickly to abandon its nuclear reactors, according to Nobel Prize laureate Kenzaburo Oe.
“If we are to take ethical responsibility for children of tomorrow, we need to decide now to abandon all reactors,” the 77-year old author said today at a press conference at the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Japan.
“Another severe nuclear accident could occur,” said Oe, who is among the nine founding members of the “Sayonara Nuclear Power Plants” campaign launched last June. “There is no proof it won’t happen again.”
The initiative aims to collect 10 million signatures to urge the government to phase out nuclear power generation and shift to clean energy and energy-saving measures. So far, 5 million signatures have been collected, said Satoshi Kamata, a freelance journalist and another founding member.
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59 Comments so far
Show AllThe nuclear industry is an international club of liars, deceivers, and manipulators. It is inherently a wicked enterprise of deception and will never be anything other than that.
Why? Because it is a bet with forces that cannot be controlled through rational procedures. Why? Because the factors involved are too complex to be shaped into a model with strong predictive accuracy.
The people who play this game are evil in a way that is reminiscent of Eichmann.
they just keep running...as fast and as far as they can...
which, no matter how far, isn't far enough...
It cannot be possible the temperature inside the stainless steel vessel is below the boiling point of water, when the camera they inserted in that chamber about three weeks ago melted.
The camera was specially designed to withstand very high tempratures and it melted after near an hour in the chamber.. They say the molten core of lava is lying at the bottom of the chamber, but they don't have any idea of where it is. The water they are pouring into it runs right back out into the basements and then to the Pacific Ocean, so the chamber has a big hole in the bottom.
They have acknowledged that the molten cores of number 1 and 3 reactors have melted through the steel vessels and down through the concrete floors of the basement and are most likely burning in the ground, still radiating deadly radioactive particles or isotopes of cesium and plutonium, etc.
Workers cannot even get near the destroyed number 1 and 3 reactor buildings and the radiation level at number 2 was so high the workers could only stay there for two to three minutes at a time.
Anyone who believes the same or worse type of a disaster cannot happen at any time with the 400 plus nucelar reactors in operation around the world are delusional or are lying to themselves.
'It cannot be possible the temperature inside the stainless steel vessel is below the boiling point of water, when the camera they inserted in that chamber about three weeks ago melted.
'The camera was specially designed to withstand very high tempratures and it melted after near an hour in the chamber.. They say the molten core of lava is lying at the bottom of the chamber, but they don't have any idea of where it is. The water they are pouring into it runs right back out into the basements and then to the Pacific Ocean, so the chamber has a big hole in the bottom.'
Can you corroborate the above for us?
www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120120a1.htm
John
Here is a link for an article showing what the various camera angles are showing the water level is not where it was expected to be... The cooling water being pumped in isn't in the vessel, it pours out of a big hole in the bottom wher the molten core of lava fell out onto the concrete floor.
The rising temperatures are not from the insde of the (empty) reactor's stainless steel vessel, it is comng from the molten core of highly radioactive lava which is somewhere beneath the building... Where beneath? __ No one knows, they just know it's HOT... Maybe going critical? __ We'll see.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201201200044
The video inspection lasted about 70 minutes long before the camera lens melted.
'Well hello ~Johnny~. How are you this fine day? It's real fine here, we have our first rain since last April, enough to wet the ground a little bit'
I'm fine; thanks for the URL! It's snowing here in Philadelphia.
The video inspection lasted about 70 minutes long before the camera lens melted.
I checked the link. What makes you think that the lens melted?
John
Anyway; the "cooling" water wasn't in there and it should have been, unless the core burned all the way through.. So why is the temp rising and bothering anybody?
What are the temperatures in units' 1 and 3? Why is steam rising from all three of the destroyed reactor buildings'? Why can the workers only work there for three minutes at a time? Why when we get married do we have to say we sleep with a relative? Why aren' any cars named after dogs? They are named after other animals and birds. Cougars, Eagles, Impalas, Mustangs, Colts. Am I getting off topic? __ I'll stop the BS.
Did you know there are more than 3,500 sites in the US where 60 million cubic yards of toxic waste is stored, many are radioactive waste, lots of materials from stuff left after the cold war?
According to the US Energy Department, some of them are really HOT. "They are cookin", said Dr. Michael Daly, a biologist at the Uniformed Services University of the Heath Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland... Fun huh? __ Go-go Nukes!
'Anyway; the "cooling" water wasn't in there and it should have been, unless the core burned all the way through.. So why is the temp rising and bothering anybody?'
Of course water is in the vessel, but the level is less than 4 meters from the floor. The temperature is rising due to decay heat; that why water is being circulated.
'What are the temperatures in units' 1 and 3? Why is steam rising from all three of the destroyed reactor buildings'?...'
Is it? Steam is invisible.
'...Why can the workers only work there for three minutes at a time?...'
I don't know; strong union?
' Why when we get married do we have to say we sleep with a relative?...'
I don't know, but if I concentrate, I can get 6 hours sleep in 5 hours. It's just a matter of mind over mattress.
' Why aren' any cars named after dogs? They are named after other animals and birds. Cougars, Eagles, Impalas, Mustangs, Colts....'
You never saw a Volkswagon Beagle? And I named my old '53 flathead Ford, "Lassie".
John
When you say you live in Philadelphia John, it that Philadelphia the name of another planet? __ I have lived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on Walnut Street in the United States and when I lived there, steam was very (visible) and it has been every place else where I have ever lived on planet Earth, including Ashiya, Japan.
Steam occurs when water boils, and loose steam, which is not in pipes, rises up into the atmophere... Since steam is rising from the three melted down reactors at Fukushima, it is quite clear that water is boiling somewhere down under the plant... Are they pumpin in boiling water to cool the melted radioactive cores of lava?
Try boiling some water in a pot on your kitchen stove and notice as the water boils if you watch carefully you will see steam rising from the top of the boiling water. If you place a rag over the rising steam, it it will get wet.
Or are you trying to be scientifically technical John and what we are seeing is actually hot air laden with moisture, not really steam in a technical sense?
And if it is steam coming from decaying heat of the radioactive lava, it is radioactive steam, or (hot air, laden with moisture), spewing out into the atmosphere, carrying trillions of radioactive isotopes of deadly cancer causing poisons.
John Iannetta wrote ,,, "Of course water is in the vessel, but the level is less than 4 meters from the floor. The temperature is rising due to decay heat; that why water is being circulated."
Uhh,,, Decay heat of what and from where? __ The camera they inserted into the reactor vessel did not photo any level of water, so if anyone at TEPCO says there is water in there means (zip)... It is just babbling and or hoping, or lying.
And they are pumping water in, but it is not being re-cycled, it is just disappearing into steam or into the ground water table and into the Pacific Ocean andit is deadly radioactive water.
A VW Beagle... That is a good one John.
So I’ll ask again. Why do we see (*steam*) coming from the melted down, in “cold shutdown”, Fukushima reactors, # 1, 2 and 3? __ Answer for you: Because something is boiling water down under the three reator buildings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam
From Wiki,,, “(*Steam*) is the (technical term) for water vapor, the gaseous phase of water, which is formed when water boils.”) __ We do like to be technical here Johnny... Right?
(“In (*common language*), it is often used to refer to the (*visible mist*) of water droplets formed as this water vapor condenses in the presence of cooler air.”).. End Wikki quotes.
Kinda like the (*steam*) we (*see*) erupting from a geyser in Yellowstone National Park.... But the point here with this article is, something is a lot hotter than 100 degrees F below those three reactor buildings and a "cold shutdown" is bullshitt, or a damn lie.
Why do we only vote for two or three people in a presidential election and 50 for Miss America? We need a blond female running this country... Maybe Maddona?
.Ianetta is playing word games with you. Very technically speaking, steam is not visible. Steam condenses into water vapor which is visible. Clouds are not steam, they are water vapor. The "steam" you see rising from nuclear plant cooling towers is actully water vapor. It is a very technical nitpick. If it is hot enough inside one of those broken reactors to produce visible water vapor be assured that the water is boiling and creating steam which is rapidly condensing into visible water vapor.'
No, water vapor is invisible. And clouds are not water vapor; they are liquid water droplets. Since the pressure vessel is vented to the atmosphere and the temperature is well below 100 degrees C, the water cannot be boiling.
John
'From Wiki,,, “(*Steam*) is the (technical term) for water vapor, the gaseous phase of water, which is formed when water boils.”) __ We do like to be technical here Johnny... Right?
'(“In (*common language*), it is often used to refer to the (*visible mist*) of water droplets formed as this water vapor condenses in the presence of cooler air.”).. End Wikki quotes.'
'Kinda like the (*steam*) we (*see*) erupting from a geyser in Yellowstone National Park.... But the point here with this article is, something is a lot hotter than 100 degrees F below those three reactor buildings and a "cold shutdown" is bullshitt, or a damn lie'
The Wikipedia entry is incorrect. Water vapor is not necessarily steam. If the relative humidity is greater than zero, there's water vapor in the air. But there's no steam in the air. Water in the gaseous phase is not steam if the temperature is below the boiling point.
Since the temperature in the containment vessel is apparently well below the boiling point, the water is not boiling; and the rate of radioactive emissions is being held down.
John
And it is not the temperature inside the containment vessel we should be concerned about. that is totally irrelivent now... The molten radioactive lava isn't in the containment vessel, in units 1, 2 or 3 and the water they pour in gets down to the molten lave and it boils and emits radioactive isotopes of Pu and cesium 137 into the atmopshere in the emitted clearly (visible) steam.... Check it out.
Hey John, why did they pour all of that boron in there if the core is so cool and is in "cold shutdown". Perhaps you could cut and paste all of my comments here and reply with an intelligent answer? __ Perhaps not?
Also, where does it say the water "tpours out of a big hole in the bottom"
Did you post the right link? You know, imagining stuff ans saying it does not make it true.
There is no water in the vessel, if there was any water in there the camera could not see it. They are pumping water in by the hour and a lot of (boric acid), or boron, to stop the molten core from going critical.
They continue to pump water in and the vessel does not fill up with water, so the water must be leaking out, probably out of the same (big hole) the molten radioactive lave fell out of... Now I gladly admit that last sentence is my opinion.
However; it has been well established the cores fell out of the vessels in unit's 1 and 3... So why not number 2 also? There must be a hole or holes because the water is running out as it is being pumped in.
Both the inside and the outside thermometer showed 44C. Te camera did not melt. The reactor vessel does not fill up because the water is circulated to be cooled.
The workers were there and operated the camera for 70 minutes, not 2-3 as you claim. Methinks you're full of it...
32 (individual) workers, one at a time, operated the camera for about two minutes each... The radiation level anywhere near the reactor building is extremely high... At reactor buildings' 1 and 3, they cannot even get any workers close to them because the radiation level is too high to permit it.
It is not Russia's Chernobyl, where men volunteered to control the meltdown and knew they were going to die by doing so. And they controlled it at Chernobyl within less than a month.
How high are the radiaton levels there, Tepco officials won't say, but each worker could only operate the camera for about two miniutes at a time... Okay?
Why do you say the water is being recirculated? The entire operaton is a madman's fire drill... The entire operation has been totally (*out-of-control*) for the past 10 months.
They have fire hoses stretched out in freezing weather conditions for hundreds of yards and they pump water in the destroyed piping and it is not being recylced, it flows through the burned through reactor and out the hole where the molten core burned through and into the building's basements, from there it enters the ground and finally into the nearby ocean. And no one knows what to do to control the three meltdowns... Okay?
I read the camera lens had melted after 70 minutes and now I cannot find that article, but whether the camera lens melted or not,,, the water being pumped in is boiling, or visible steam would not be seen pouring out from the destroyed building... Water does not boil at 44 C...Okay?
You say internal and exteral thermometers read the same temp.... How is that possible?
They poured in a ton or so of of boron to try to prevent the melted radioactive core from going critical... That would not be necessary if the temperature was at 44 C or less than 100 F, unles the now molten core of tons of lava was extremely hot and could possibly go critical and explode... Okay?
And none of us here posting comments really know what the hell is going on over there... We can see that the stories Tepco officials are telling do not add up.
Thank you for repeating the Tepco officials story, appreciate it. Are you pro-nuclear, or just speaking for Rfiney? __ "Methinks" you is.
Steam does not have to form from boiling water. Steam forms when the water out of the surrounding air condenses as the air is cooled to the dew point. Don't ask, it's a technical thing... Main thing is, i can make steam in my bath room by letting the shower run. And that water is not boiling...
The confusion about your statements comes from the fact that you put forth a lot of claims and then a link where none of them are corroborated.
"Why do you say the water is being recirculated?"
"Since the accident occurred Tepco have focussed on implementing new cooling systems, which now use recirculated decontaminated water to cool the reactors of units 1-3 and also provide cooling to the fuel ponds of units 1-4"
http://world-nuclear.org/fukushima/
You wrote,, >("The reactor vessel does not fill up because the water is circulated to be cooled.").
The water they expected to see in the vessel just below where the camera was inserted wasn't there..The camera video never found any water in the vessel, just steam.
What is the temperature of the molten radioactive lava,,, which is not in the containment vessel? __ Do you know? __ No one else does.
We all see you are again posting what Tepco says... Good job.
How do they recirculate water which has flowed out of the ruined stainless steel containent vessels in units 1, 2 and 3 ? That water goes down into the basements and into the ground
Have they put sump pumps in the basements and or below the basements? __ Nope, they can't get near those buildings to do anything in units 1 and 3.
Can you tell us why all of that boron was poured into a "cold shutdown" reactor, which Tepco says has a temp of only around 40 C? Or will you ignore that fair question?
The NRC and the nuke idnustry have learned some good things from the Fukushima disaster. If another nuclear reactor ever should suffer a total meltdown, all that is necessary to have a "cold shutdown" and make it alright, is to pour water on the molten radioactive lava for 300 plus years... Pretty neat.
I really don't try to debate or argue with them, because that is not possible... I just hope that I can show others how wrong they are.
I like you too JC, at lot... You are Okay.
A bit strange that RF is absent today. That is a first on a FukUshima thread.
There will be a lot of training going on if we ever suffer another cat 8 or 9 earthquake along the New Madrid earthquake fault line in Mid America, where 16 nuclear reactors are located... It will be called "Panic" or "Oh shitt" training.
Were it not for the threat from nuclear states, would oil rich ME states be intent on building them?
ArthurCooper, Feb 8 2012 - 2:42pm, you must be from the Onion staff.
If not, tell us more the great qualifications acquired by our glorious military under live fire! They have been groping about for more than ten years in Afghanistan, and the situation is deteriorating by the day. Only took them about ten years to get Osama bin Laden. Do I need to describe the stellar performance of the Greatest Country in the World's military in Iraq?
Yeah, our infinitely realistic military, a compelling reference and example!
As for practicing in a radioactive environment, well, tell us about it. Tell us, will you volunteer for said practice when it is nearly certain that you will get cancer a few years down the line? If there are suckers willing to expose themselves to high doses of radioactivity, will they still be alive and able bodied when time comes to put their skills to work? Don't you think there might be a reason why skills for dealing with such extreme physical situations have not been developed? That the situation itself is inimical to practice?
So rust on the pipes inside a nuclear reactor is not considered "damage"? How comforting.
http://tinyurl.com/7ax3qxu
[Full URL: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2012/02/08/Bird-numbers-drop-around-Fukushima/UPI-66091328731833/?spt=hts&or=7]
A quote from the article:
"They compared the findings to a similar study undertaken in Ukraine's Chernobyl Exclusion Zone from 2006 through 2009 and discovered that for 14 species of birds found in both locations, the decrease of population size was more pronounced at Fukushima than at Chernobyl, where a devastating nuclear power plant accident occurred in 1986."
What a crock of shit.
What on Earth is it about spent fuel rod ponds that they needed to know? They had better already know everythhing needed to know about them before they built a nuclear reactor... They may as well ask; how does a yoyo work?