Israel May Face Charges for War Crime
RAMALLAH - Israel has committed war crimes and should be prosecuted in an international court, says Raji Sourani, head of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) in Gaza.
"The repeated bombing of clearly marked civilian buildings, where civilians were sheltering, crosses several red lines in regard to international law," Sourani told IPS.
Palestinian Authority (PA) delegate to Britain Professor Manuel Hassassian has said the PA will launch legal proceedings against Israeli leaders it says are responsible for war crimes in Gaza, according to a Palestinian news report.
Another 22 Palestinians were killed Wednesday morning in bombing and shelling as Israel's Operation Cast Lead entered day 11. The dead included four people killed in the shelling of a children's playground near a mosque in the Sheikh Radwan neighbourhood of Gaza city.
Six Israelis were treated for shock as several rockets from Gaza hit Israel.
Hassassian's comment came in the wake of Israeli shelling of a UN school in Jabaliya refugee camp Tuesday afternoon which killed over 40 Palestinians. Several other UN schools in the Gaza Strip were also hit in the last few days, resulting in a number of casualties.
The UN called for an investigation, stating that prior to the current operation the Israelis were given the precise coordinates of all UN institutions in Gaza.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has already condemned an Israeli attack on two members of the Palestinian Red Crescent (PRC) last week. The ICRC said the medics were wearing fluorescent jackets, their ambulances were clearly marked, and their flashing lights were on.
Nihal Al-Akras, chairman of the Palestinian Health Care Committees, asked the international community to pressure Israel to stop firing on medical facilities and workers in the Gaza Strip.
Akhras's comments followed Tuesday's bombing of the Ad-Dura hospital in the Rimal neighbourhood of Gaza city. Three mobile clinics provided by a Danish NGO, DanChurchAid, were also destroyed.
"We've been able to help the wounded and suffering so far because our vehicles have been present and ready inside Gaza. This possibility of emergency aid is now in ruins," said Henrik Stubkjær, secretary general of DanChurchAid.
"We are deeply shocked that the Israeli air strikes directly prevent the humanitarian aid effort," he added.
According to DanChurchAid the clinics were clearly marked with red crosses and were parked in the Union of Healthcare headquarters.
"One Palestinian doctor and three medics have been killed during Israel's bombing campaign which began on December 27," Sammy Hassan, spokesman for Gaza's Shifa Hospital told IPS.
While Israel has denied that it deliberately targets civilians, reading between the lines of reports in the Israeli media and admissions by military leaders would suggest that the lives of Palestinian civilians are secondary to saving Israeli soldiers.
Several senior Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) officers have admitted that the IDF strategy is to use tremendous firepower on the ground to protect Israeli soldiers during fighting in civilian areas, a senior officer explained to journalists on Tuesday.
"For us, being cautious means being aggressive," said one officer. "From the minute we entered, we've acted like we're at war. That creates enormous damage on the ground.
"When we suspect that a Palestinian fighter is hiding in a house, we shoot it with a missile and then with two tank shells, and then a bulldozer hits the wall. It causes damage but it prevents the loss of life among soldiers."
The IDF suffered significant military casualties during the 2006 Lebanon war, and the top brass realised that a repeat of this would erode public morale and the country's political will. The Israeli cabinet took all this into account prior to the ground operation into Gaza.
Additionally, limited global reaction -- due to the lack of international media on the ground in Gaza following an Israeli ban -- to several of the more serious incidents of civilian casualties has emboldened Israel to a certain degree.
Even during the Lebanon War following similarly serious attacks by Israel on Lebanese civilians, a ceasefire took weeks to be enforced.
However, Israel has not been completely immune from the world's outrage. Following international pressure on the escalating humanitarian crisis, Israel has agreed to establish a humanitarian corridor near Gaza city.
Israeli military operations will be halted for threehours every day to allow humanitarian aid to reach Gaza's besieged population through this corridor.
"The idea is for the Israeli military to lay down its weapons every day from 1 pm to 4 pm starting today (Wednesday) in the area of the city of Gaza," an Israeli source was quoted as saying.
Israeli leaders met in Tel Aviv Wednesday morning to discuss expanding the ground offensive during a period when most of the aims of the operation have been reached, according to a number of Israeli analysts.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, Defence Minister Ehud Olmert -- the war cabinet's troika - reportedly discussed an even more intensive campaign in Gaza's towns and cities. Israel is hoping to inflict as much damage as possible to Hamas's personnel and infrastructure.
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168 Comments so far
Show AllIsrael should go on trail, right after they finish trying the Chinese leadership for committing genocide in Tibet, Mugabe for letting the people of Zimbabwe starve, and Putin of Russia for waging aggressive war against the independent republic of Georgia. The Israelis have, so far, managed to kill fewer than 2,000 people, many of whom are combatants. That is a good weekend in Tibet or Zimbabwe...
I think you're leaving out the U.S.A., for murdering over 1 million Iraqi civilians, lord knows how many Afghan civilians, etc, ad infinitum. If that isn't genocide, I don't know what is. Throw violating the UN Charter, Nuremburg Charter, and about a dozen other international laws, US law, etc, for launching an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation in there as well. Oh yeah, and maybe a couple thousand tortures, shredding the Geneva Conventions, and forced disappearances as well, for good measure.
Your point is noted, "liberty," but have the cahones to look in the mirror before pointing to the other "bad guys" outside our own borders. You and the other Rethugs have left the U.S. with no moral ground to stand on. The last entity in the world to be pointing fingers about war crimes should be the U.S.. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
US MEDIA DIDN'T REPORT ISRAELI CEASEFIRE VIOLATION
By Jim Lobe and Ali Gharib, The Electronic Intifada, 8 January 2009
WASHINGTON (IPS) - Consumed by coverage of the 4 November
presidential election, US mainstream media ignored a key
Israeli military attack on a Hamas target that some
Palestinians claim marked the effective end of the
ceasefire between the two sides and set the stage for the
current round of bloodletting. While the major US news
wire Associated Press (AP) reported that the attack, in
which six members of Hamas's military wing were killed by
Israeli ground forces, threatened the ceasefire, its
report was carried by only a handful of small newspapers
around the country.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10140.shtml
Oh by the way, as did Jonah, I lived in the whale's belly for a much longer time than did Johah and incidentily had time to furnish cabinets with such foods as talapia, tacos, tunafish in cans, and especially that locust derived manna from heaven. Hell, I even had a HD Tv with the soports package. Now isn' such a tale on par with the biblical manure?
NYCartist; I was American Christian until I eschewes all religion after watching Israel and reading the horrible events and fairy tales in the Old Testament. By way of ancestry I am a third generation Arab, but would not fight in any war which involved the mideast countries like Rahm Emanuel did, nor would I ever prefer them over the USA. This is the home of my family where we work sleep and eat and whose customes we have practised since birth like doing American dances, eating American food, speaking English, voting, schooling etc. We titthe to no other nationality or religion, nor do we belong to any religious supporting lobbying groups such as JDL,AIPAC. Such groups prefer Israel and Judaism to America. Witness their hatred of all non-Jewish things.
Anyone care to wager that Israel won't be prosecuted for its war crimes, no more than will Smirk and his crew?
There is NO JUSTICE when it comes to the MIC, short of REVOLUTION....Who's ready?
Israel just killed a UN aid convoy driver with tank fire, violating their own three hour ceasefire.
Add another war crimes charge to the list.
Walk in peace.
This part of a pattern with the IDF. They target the UN so as to ensure there no witnesses to their crimes and the UN attempts at bringing aid fail so that the Palestinians must rely on the people killing them to feed them.
This was no accident.
It's true israel kills or forbids witnesses to its crimes much like the mafia, last year Israel shot a clearly marked press car with a tank, killing a cameraman for Retuters:
"Reuters has said it is "deeply disturbed" that the Israeli military has decided the tank crew that killed one of the news agency's cameramen and eight young bystanders in the Gaza Strip four months ago will not face legal action."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/13/reuters.pressandpublishing
And please check out the link for the gruesome photo of the clearly marked burning press car.
I heard that this morning. The UN has now halted all aid into the area because it is too dangerous.
UN halts aid to Gaza, citing Israeli attacks on staff
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/01/08/israel-gaza.html
Pay special attention to the video on the right.
Edited to add - the UN is actually accusing the Israeli army of trying to block them from getting into an area they bombed for days ago. They found four kids barely alive beside their dead mothers.
Israel is guilty of war crimes and violations of a plethora of international laws, but who really cares? So is the U.S. - and again I ask, who cares? Do any of you REALLY think anything will be done? Israel is immune to any sanctions due to their being the U.S.'s biggest ally, and because they are Jews. No person and no organization will ever actually do anything about their crimes, just like no person and no organization will ever do anything about the crimes of the Bush administration. Make some noise, protest, file a few complaints with the sterile U.N. - whoopdie doo da. The "anti-semite" label will be thrown at anyone who speaks out against the "holy state of Israel", and nobody has ever had the balls to do anything against the U.S. in the last century. Can you imagine the EU boycotting or imposing trade sanctions against the U.S.?? LOL Or the UN or any country using military aggression against the U.S.?? LOL Please.
The war crimes will continue. Until the world stands up to the two biggest terrorist states in the world - the US and its proxy state, Israel - they will do what they want with impunity. Everyone knows this.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, "It Cant Happen Here", 1935
Using chemical weapons is a war crime. White Phosphorous is a chemical weapon. Claiming that you were only dropping it as a smoke screen over the most densely populated stretch of land on the planet only shows that you are attempting to manage public opinion while being fully cognizant that you have infact committed a war crime. CASE CLOSED.
This is absolutely true.
But deliberately attacking a UN school has got to also rank up there in the war-crime list.
Short answer: The Israelis train kids to believe all Palestinians are no better than rats or insects. They then give them all guns and turn them loose.
Amazing since the Jewish people have been on the sharp end of such policies themselves many many times in the past. But it is so very difficult to put yourself in the same place as a rat or an insect isn't it.
1996 Israeli Jets bomb UN building and kill 102 people who had sought refuge.
In Hamburg an architecture student sees video of this and becomes enraged.
On the first day of Israeli "Operation Grapes of Wrath", he signs a will he gets from his mosque, offering his life in response.
This man's name was Muhammad Atta.
Interesting piece of the puzzle, thanks azjoe.
Hi hootowl, learned it on Informed Comment by Juan Cole yesterday. Today I note a correction. Muhammed Atta signed his will during/right after the Qana Massacre. How many time-bombs have begun ticking with THIS slaughter of civilians? 9-11 part 2 coming soon.
The U.S. should face War crimes too.
All the 'COW's should be tried.
NYCartist I am semite as are my children from both parents. I call myself Jonah because I was swallowed by a whale and then spit out. What horse manure the old testament is. If it isn't why did yahweh tell the Israelites to kill every man woman and child and everything that breathes? But don't forget to gather the gold and silver and all valuables. Read it in Deuteronomy Chapter 20. If he indeed did that then he is a war-monger also!
Jonah:I know your wife's family is Lithuanian Jew. I don't remember what you said you are. The Jews use the word "ashem" not yahweh. I don't read the bible. I am an atheist Jew. I appreciate your taking the time to answer me. I would love to read your whale story.
JWVerez-You're right...My apologies to you and Moore. I just got a little pumped there for a moment. I guess we're all trying to parse the nuances, and cut through the BS.
Thanks my friend. No apologies needed though. I'd have asked how you came to that conclusion when I read your posting, it startled me, but JWVerez saved my butt!
No problem. Yes, it can be tricky understanding others when you meet them at first. It happened to me too. It's cool.
Look-Thomas Moore, Goose, and their ilk are just a bunch of apologist trolls. Obviously the media was setting the whole scene up early on in the game with the 'Hezbullah hiding amongst civilians' thing to soften up the images and reports of what the IDF was going to do anyway-bomb the hell out of civilians. I think in media terms, it's called 'cultural softening'. Didn't the breaking of the cease fire by Israel happen on November 4th? Right when we were having the most historic election that the world was watching? Everything the Israelis do is politically timed. Even this bullshit 4-hour cease fire to let in aid and meds to the palestinians, and then start up again!
The israelis have their own 'elections' coming up, and quite frankly, they don't look too good to the world, hizbollah handed their asses to them in '06, and the poor little israelis-the 'ultimate' victims-aren't feeling loved, or respected for that matter. This is about getting a score in.
After all, Hizbollah was better armed, and willing to fight head to head-something that the israelis can't seem to handle very well-so they beat up on the palestinians. Typical, really.
Keep playing these games people. Go ahead and be self congratulatory and smug, and pretend to be coy about what's really going on. Sooner or later, israel will render herself useless to the world-proving herself to be too high maintenance, and there will be no need to have that shit hole of a state around any longer.
The israelis are just as much a bunch of savage little tribes as any one else over there, and a prime example of a people who have become spiritually dead, lacking wisdom, and as far as I'm concerned, have fallen way out of God's good graces long, long ago.
To all of the Jewish and Arab people out there who are brave enough to stand up for peace and what is right-I salute you with all my heart. Keep up the good work-let these other good-for-nothing bastards rot in their willful ignorance and 'divine' hatred.
I'll agree with you about Goose4 but not on Thomas More. Sure, we all have our disagreements but even Thomas More has shown his amazing abilities to moderate the wacky zionists. TM doesn't support either side but like all of us wants peace. Read his posts again.
I am amazed at the justification for killing humans. Israel has no right to behave like the Nazis.
Btw, did anyone get Kissinger's take on the whole mess?
The key word in the headline is "May", which is the same as "Won't".
I agree. I would take the article more seriously than simple saber rattling if a global power like Russia, China, the EU, Japan, or even the USA were calling for war crimes in the UN.
I was thinking the same thing. If one were to say "Iran may face charges", then it would have been a greater likelyhood but for Israel, even if it does, it'll be dropped sooner than we can imagine.
Why do I get the feeling that this "trial" is just gonna be another DUMBSHOW ? The US has been aiding and abetting Israel for all its war crimes and Israel owes nothing in return for all the US taxpayer money doled out to the zionist elites and militants. If India were to bomb Pakistan or Turkey were to bomb the Kurds, they would be tried and executed immediately even if it were for actually defending themselves, not that I support the idea of bombing a nation or for that matter a group of people out. Unfortunately, it looks like a nightmare of a growing number of people in India getting angrier at Pakistan for "defending" terrorists are beginning to entertain the idea of imitating Israel and I hear it's coming from the younger folks. Maybe like Christianity, Hinduism is losing its identity to war and terror these days?
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090105&fname=raman&sid=1
If India gets put on trial, you can count of sparks of racism from the US and the EU and their historical double standard treatment of handling terrorists in one nation vs another will be on world wide display.
P.S.: It seems that in India, most people distrust their government very much kinda like the deep red states.
Come to western Maryland and ask your average man-on-the-street about all of this. Here's what you're likely to hear:
"I think we should just go over there and kill all those Muslims because they aren't Christians and don't respect life like we do."
No kidding. I've heard it many times. Today I was speaking with a local methodist minister who told me "I'm not interested in talking politics. I don't watch Aljazeera like you do."
And, of course, this is a heavily Republican area. Media reform would do absolutely no good around this area. On the editorial page of the local newspaper they're still presenting opposing arguments at the Scopes Monkey Trial. And when you mention this to someone, more often than not they've never heard of the Scopes Monkey Trial.
Maryland would have joined the South, but Lincoln had enough loyal military close at hand to prevent it. There would be no trouble in Palestine had the South won as the whole direction of history would be vastly different. Global Warming will also change the course of history, and by 2100 Palestine will become the vast desert wasteland it's been during previous climatic gyrations in the past. The Abrahamic Religious Myths are at the root of Palestine's troubles, and indeed, they are responsible for more death and destruction than anything else known to or experienced by mankind.
orcan said:
Today I was speaking with a local methodist minister who told me "I'm not interested in talking politics. I don't watch Aljazeera like you do."
In Australia the President of the Uniting Church (of which Methodists made up the largest group when they united in 1977 with Presbyterians and Congregationalist) spoke out against Israel's attack on Gaza and criticized the Australian acting Prime Minister for being relatively Pro-Israel in her remarks.
See:
http://assembly.uca.org.au/media-centre/50-mediareleases09/410-mrgaza.html
From the United Church of Canada:
United Church Moderator Calls for a Ceasefire in Gaza
http://www.united-church.ca/communications/news/releases/090105
“The United Church of Canada has consistently expressed its deep concern about the ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories, and about the violence committed by both Israelis and Palestinians,” says the Moderator, the Right Rev. David Giuliano. ...
“The teachings of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are rooted in love, peace, and justice,” says Giuliano. “I invite all religious leaders to join hearts to witness to those roots through prayer and action for peace. As faith leaders, let us demonstrate that religion is a force for life, not death, in the world.”
Take Action - Call for a Ceasefire in Gaza
http://www.united-church.ca/getinvolved/takeaction/090106
The United Church of Canada and the Patriarchs and Heads of Churches in Jerusalem are deeply concerned about the current conflict in Gaza. ...
Most recently, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Assistance reports that the humanitarian situation continues to deteriorate in the Gaza Strip due to shortages of electricity and water. The situation is desperate for the population of one and a half million. For the latest information, go to IRIN news , the website of a UN humanitarian news and information service. ...
(from sample letter) - "The situation in Gaza is catastrophic, and Canadians are looking to our government to stand up for human rights and support the rule of international law. Canada's one-sided position in the face of the Palestinians' suffering is a violation of Canada's obligations under international law."
"Media reform would do absolutely no good around this area."
Don't be so sure. A lot of us who live in heavily Republican areas just have to pay attention to local elections and push for better candidacies. In time, western MD won't be as red as it is now. The Christo brown shirts can be tough nuts to crack. They don't follow the bible or follow anything that's actually good about Christianity. They've been trained to follow the bad shit and scarf down bullshit from Limbaugh, Hannity, Pat Robertson, etc ...
P.S.: I live in TX and see a lot of it though it's not as bad out here in south Texas where I live.
I began writing letters to the editor way back in 1994. At that time the editorial page editor was somewhat liberal. But of over 120 letters even he only published around 75, and the more "controversial" elements of them were often edited out. What I got in return was a load of abuse. They did everything from call me a liar, KGB propaganda operative, traitor, communist, anti-American and stupid, to calling for a community collection effort to buy me a one-way plane ticket to Afghanistan. That particular editor was fired two years ago and the present editor refuses to even acknowledge my existence. So I write my commentaries, make numerous print-outs, and literally walk around town handing them out. Most people just take them, walk directly over to a trash receptacle and in it goes. Often they say things like "American soldiers fought and died to give you the freedom to do this." Then they throw it into the trash. they usually don't give me the chance to tell them that I'm an honorably discharged Vietnam Era veteran and that my uncle won three Bronze Stars during the Second World War. they don't want to hear it. Fortunately, my uncle is still alive and agrees with my positions more often than not.
Hmm, the problem is defintely out there in most of rural America no doubt. They think everything is being given to them on a silver plate but go haywire anyway. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party often writes off rural America and relies on urban and suburban areas. I believe western MD is rural, no? Unfortunately, the only way these blindies are going to learn is when the oil runs out and a Great Depression, the likes of which this country has never witnessed, will hit them all. I used to live in VA before I moved to TX and I do have remote contacts who tell me about the culture of the state and the neighboring ones. I've seen the election results of your state at www.uselectionatlas.org and www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008 and I notice that central MD has most of the population while the eastern and western parts don't. You'll have to find people out there you can relate to on at least some of the matters and then figure out how to reframe the issues. George Lakoff wrote quite a few books on this matter and it's well worth the read. Of course, the Democrats never really took it seriously although they were lucky to get by these past two elections even as they pandered to the GOP more often than not. The self-reliant yankees as I would call them will probably have to learn the hard way and I'll bet Peak Oil will hit them the hardest. By the way, I too was a Vietnam war veteran. The neocons and the brown shirts, most of whom never bother serving even though they preach the idea to others, have no idea what going through war is really like. The more one has to kill the more haunted memories pile up and the more the soldier's life is psychologically and even mentally affected and that's before we're talking about any physical injuries.
The other night I walked into a Cumberland, MD hospital wearing my traditional Palestinian scarf around me neck. I went around to three nursing stations asking if they could please give me 6 or 8 oz of blood to pour on the scarf to make it even more authentic. I was very calm and quite the entire time. Within ten minutes a hospital security guard was escorting me out of the building.
I showed my scarf to a local high school social studies teacher at a fast food restaurant, and told him that it would be even more authentic if it had blood all over it. He stood up, walked over to the front counter and told the cashier to call the police.
I would suggest food colouring - what they use to make icing different colours.
Menstration would also afford certain opportunities.
I think that the cashier thought that you were going to kill him/her. People freak out when you mention blood.
What would Fulla do in this situation - mad dentist on the loose!
I'm afraid that's not how you're going to reach out to those folks. Asking to put blood on your scarf is disgusting and it's going to convince these people of anything. You have to come up with appealing ideas that mould into their culture sort of. You have to get people on issues with which you and them can find some common ground. Maybe these people don't like Palestinians. But ask them something like this:
"Do you like it that your politicians are not providing you affordable healthcare or for that matter repairing the country's infrastructure but are instead wasting it on reckless wars and dangerously shipping WMDs to rogue nations and in the process engaging in unilateral disarmament?"
You don't want to produce hair trigger responses. Not everyone's a rabid conservative as it may appear at first. Go to amazon.com and look up George Lakoff. You'll find it interesting that framing can be a powerful tool. There will always be a set of hardcore folks on both sides but there's plenty of room for moderates even where the extremes are dominant.
Case in point. Let's revisit your social studies teacher. Ask him what he thinks of the "No Child Left Behind" Act and how his school is doing in the last 8 years. Ask him what he thinks about government wasting taxpayer money on wars and the US trading arms with rogue regimes even as school budgets dry up. If he's a staunch conservative, you'll know what to expect. People aren't gonna care about that scarf. But ask them how they feel about their taxpayer money being wasted on reckless wars and bailouts to Wall Street even as public infrastructure here in the area continues to rot. You'd be amazed at the responses. Not everyone's bound to be a rabid conservative.
Good advice to help the intrepid orcan to become more effective.
As a teacher, I say you have to take stock of where students are. Meet them there and then bring them along. Don't forget to listen and learn and check for feedback. I believe progressives can use that advice too, since part of what we do is education.
People are complicated. As a friend from China always says: "Everybody knows something. Everybody doesn't know something."
Joe
Trust me. I can see where it's easy to be over reactive and I've fallen into those traps too back in the days I fought against those who tried to exploit my disabilities. My wife and my mother taught me to calm down and be reasonable. It takes time to get the hang of that idea and I'll admit I can get really crazy when folks like joehope drive me nuts. I read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter With Kansas?" and George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant" and the political dysfunctionality became even more clear. My wife and I became so interested in Lakoff's application of cognitive science that we bought and read "Moral Politics", "Whose Freedom", and we're looking forward to buying his books "Thinking Points" and "The Political Mind". Conservatives don't use violence to win. They use framing and frame traps to lock up long term victories. This is why they still win despite being in the minority while the progressives and liberals still keep insisting that the Age of Enlightment will set us free when in fact it won't. It's one thing to tell the truth but the truth is null and void unless people can accept it. I may live in El Paso where conservatism isn't as popular as it is in the rest of the state but it doesn't take a long distance to find conservative fundies to confront.
The fact that so-called "progressive" bloggers defend Israeli war crimes illustrates how little difference there is between Republicans, right-wingers and them.
Some progressives do, some don't. That is sad though that they're divided on this issue. Anyone who defends war crimes is not a progressive, period.
MY LETTER TO UN
Subject:Creation of Israeli war crimes tribunal
Dear President General Assembly United Nations
The current massacre happening in Gaza is of urgent concern to me and all people of conscience, for these attacks which bear all the trademarks of war crime demand a war crimes tribunal.
The 1.5 million open air prisoners of "the world's biggest concentration camp" are forced to continue to collectively-pay for democratically-electing Hamas.
While the Israeli authorities punish the Palestinians in order to teach Hamas a lesson, the INNOCENT pay the highest price!
Israel is refusing ceasefire requests, in spite of Hamas offering it on the basis of reasonable and attainable compromises:
"an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank", according to Yuval Diskin, current head of Israeli security services Shin Bet.
Also, in light of the current attacks which have sparked international condemnation, Archbishop Desmund Tutu said: "In the context of total aerial supremacy, in which one side in a conflict deploys lethal aircraft against opponents with no means of defending themselves, the bombardment bears all the hallmarks of war crimes."
Over the past 2 months, fuel supply to Gaza has been blocked leading to the closure of its power plant, and even the U.N. has been forced to halt distribution of food aid, upon which most Gazans are reliant. The actions of the Israeli authorities violate the Geneva Conventions and so many international norms. It is now more necessary than ever for the U.N. to establish an International Criminal Tribunal for Israel (ICTI), under U.N. Charter Article 22. Failure to create viable accountability would only further embolden the Israeli government to continue their extermination of the Palestinians.
As the crimes committed against Palestinians degrade all humanity, we request you to urge members of the U.N. General Assembly to swiftly take necessary and appropriate action towards creating an ICTI under U.N.Charter Article 22, and holding the Israeli government accountable.
I HOPE the 'fierce urgency of now' moves the world to unite and END the Siege on Gaza and End the Occupation of Palestine which is the ONLY way to security for Israel.
"HOPE has two children. The first is ANGER at the way things are. The second is COURAGE to DO SOMETHING about it."-St. Augustine
HOPE you send a message too:
http://www.un.org/ga/contactus.asp
Eileen Fleming, Author, Founder WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu"
Israel may face charges for war crime, but you can bet your last dollar the US will do everything humanly possible to shield them from any consequence. Far from recieving consequences, they will be rewarded with billions of dollars worth of military hardware so they can continue their massacres unabated.
The US policy toward Israel will continue, be it by the current Bush, or the next one. Just watch.
Israel's Shocking Slaughter will destabilize moderate Arab regimes like Jordan and Egypt and strengthen and embolden radical ones like Somalia. This murderous rampage will draw al-Queda towards Gaza and radicalize militant Palestinians even further. While Hezbollah and Iran watch.
The short-sightedness of this not-a-war, war takes two, is only exceeded by the misery inflicted on a penned in, Colonized, dispossessed people by heavy armor and air.
SIX Israeli's were Shocked? What nerve! A few BILLION non-Israelis are shocked.
Where is world Jewry? Not that wonderful but lone voice. But that chorus of indignation??? Where?
Signed, A supporter of Israel who is appalled.
"This murderous rampage will draw al-Queda towards Gaza and radicalize militant Palestinians even further."
If so, and you are most likely right, Israel can simply do this again. No one is stopping them now, no one will stop them later. Even Hezbollah isn't responding since the 2006 war. Looks in retrospect that despite them claiming a victory, they took it in the shorts.
All in all it is really easy to kill Palestinians and really hard to kill Israelis. If Palestine doesn't stop trying, the Israelis won't have any problem continuing this later.
Young man you have no conscience and need serious psychological help when you say things like:
"All in all it is really easy to kill Palestinians ..."
That is exactly what Hitler said before he ordered that Jews be gassed and loaded into ovens. Where is your empathy and ethics? Do you even know what those words truly mean?
Israel can only go so far in shooting like looney brains but as soon as China hits the foreclosure switch on America, Israel won't be getting its goodies and they'll be in for a crude awakening. And if that doesn't work, wait until the upcoming Peak Oil crisis hits. Without all that petroleum, those WMDs that Israel uses will be USELESS. It will then no longer be as hard to kill the Israelis as it is to kill the Palestinians. I don't want either one of them killed and if you had a fraction of a brain, neither would you.
NYCartist, I'm sorry that my post was poorly written so that it could be misinterpreted. Thanks for clarifying it.
Dennis Kucinich talks about the legal ramifications of using US weapons for aggressive war:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGOv0lMMNDI
Some Americans all believe and push the B.S.they get from CNN's own Zionist Jews ex AIPAC Wolfe Blitzer and Larry King both long and staunch supporters of Israel.
Where they never tell you that the Geneva Convention expressly forbids the type of actions the Israeli military is taking in Gaza and for years Gaza has been an Israeli open air prison where inmates have been reduced to eating grass to survive.
The US State Dept & Foreign "office" Middle East departments etc are all filled with Jews with a "dual loyalty" to Israel -- shouldn't they and Wolf Blitzer and Larry King and all of FOX excuse themselves from any discussion on the Middle East or at least state up front their having a "vested Israel bias" ?
Here is a "first" in the MSM
as said here by Chris Hedges New York Times correspondent.
A war?
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely crowded refugee camps and slums, to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command and control, no army, and calls it a war.
It is not a war. It is murder.”
Zieg Heil! Israel Uber Alles !
http://wake-up-america.net/
I'll report back when monkeys fly out of my butt.
Since you can't make a comment because you will be called anti-semite, you had beeter start being PRO-semite and love Israel with all your heart, mind and soul. Did you ever notice in our times how atrocious most Israelis and Jews are (oops, I meant how loving they are). It is time to treat each one of them with the contempt they deserve. How many have you ever heard say Israel is wrong. They are quite silent. Remember what Dr Matin Luther King Jr said: "In the end, we will remember not what our enemies say but we will remember the silence of our friends." Are Jewish Americans and Israels really our friends? Ask Jonathan Pollard, Lawrence Franklin and the US Reprentatives from predominantly Jewish districts. Perhaps we should disperse them to places like Montana, Utah, South Dakota etc. They live in our largest states like NY, Fl, Calif, PA where there are a lot of electoral votes. Hey by the way, where is the Mayor of that fine American city of New York? Why he is in Israel working on public schools and health care and streets for New Yorkers. We wonder why they hate us? Rahm Emanuel served in the Israeli Army in 1989 while I served in the US Army. Where is that pig Joe Lieberman? Is he working on the deficit? Health care, jobs etc? Yeah right. I know! He is getting funding for homes for the American families who were devastated by Katrina.
We are witnessing a battle of fundamentalism. Jewish Zionists, Militant Muslims, and Christian Neocons, are gaining more and more power in their respective countries and regions. The general populations are often caught up in conflicts they don't understand and are continually fed propaganda about their supposed enemies. Many Israeli's are appalled by the actions of their Zionist leaders as are many Muslims by the actions of extremists. There are many moderates and pacifists within Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and secular communities and it's up to this majority to throw out the saber rattling fundamentalists and war criminals who propagate fear and hatred.
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner that's why I keep harping on opposing religion. Until the religious zealots have less power we will see this over and over again, and yes a lot of the planners of the wars are I'm sure cynical greedy, power hungry non believers, but the cannon fodder is far easier to come by in a population brainwashed by religion. Teach people analytical thinking skills and sociopathic leaders lose their armies of obedient followers, and poof no more war.
Hey Hoot...hadn't you heard it was the Fundamentalist astheists that were causing the trounble? (lol)
Seriously thats not a bad point about religious fanatics. Dangerous folks as are any fanatical group, but I'd say more so.
War won't be eradicated by that method either! There are degrees of thinking.
There are plenty of Zionists who are atheists. Judaism is an identity that no longer requires religious belief for it to be real.
Many "neocons" are more ultra nationalist and "free market" fanatics than they are religious fanatics.
Islamist extremists are largely a product of Western/Zionist Imperialism. The lie is they are out to create a caliphat when actually they are struggling to resist Western imperialism of which Israel is an outpost.
.
True words.
Moderates and pacifists will always be caught off guard by fundamentalism because while we merely want to live our lives in peace and let others do so as well, fundamentalists want to bend everyone into their world view. Fundamentalists are sociopaths and are truly fearful and angry. A dangerous mix which stuns people into shock and submission.
I don't believe fundamentalism wins in the end, but oh the horrible toll it takes before it is finally vanquished.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
bligh4
Yep. Anti-Semite. Definitely fits.
"Since you can't make a comment because you will be called anti-semite"
I don't think thats true for a moment. But I suggest you reread your posting, it looks pretty anti-semitic to me.
Jonah:want to hate all Jews? My mayor was in Israel with his NYPD commissioner, Ray Kelly. You'll have to read other folks comments, and Phyllis Bennis www.democracynow.org. (I won't tell you the name I called Mr. Bloomberg, because it's an insult in Yiddish.) Why did you give yourself an old testament biblical screen name? And why am I living in NYC? Besides being born here, after living in the south and midwest, I missed the diversity of NYC.
No where in all the comments does it say the rockets fired from Gaza are quite
likely fired from building with "school" designation or other protected sites.
No body has said that Hamas has one mission. The elimination of Israel.
Clearly you believe everything our "news" tells us. Why don't we
hear from someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight?
Zionism's stated goal is to purge all Muslims from the Middle East and take the land as its own. It's all right there in the archives of the Israeli government. It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion about this issue without starting from first principles. Hamas does not have as its goal the elimination of Israel. Hamas does not have the ability to eliminate Israel any more than I do. It is Israel that is in the process of eliminating Israel.
Lie much on behalf of Israel's government butchering women and children "young fascist?" Hint the U.N. said they screened people coming into the school Israel shelled multiple times when they knew it's GPS cooridnates and the U.N. said NO weapons were in the school.
That Hasbara book making good bed time reading material "old hippy" (who doubt is either old or a hippy).
I'll bet you helped lynch and immolate blacks too, as you're clearly an Oldterrorist.
Oldhippy39:Is that the year you were born? I'm slightly younger. I suggest you read Phyllis Bennis on DemocracyNow and the debate on same place, on Jan. 5,2009. www.democracynow.org (Am older, Jewish, against Israeli policies, as I am against my government's pre-emptive war in/on Iraq, Afghanistan.)
The US is a cobelligerent of Israel and thus a legitimate target for counterattacks of all types since it has, de facto, announced by its behavior and pronouncemnets to no longer be a signatory to the Geneva Conventions as became apparent several decades ago during the Korean conflict and its covert war against Indonesia in 1958 and followed by its behavior in Southeast Asia, to cite just three of many dozens of examples. The US is also the leading Terrorist State, providing sophisticated training and weapons to its terrorists and, based on many previous elections, to have a populace allied with its terrorist leaders. Any taxes you pay going to the Imperial government support its terrorism. Obama has said he will continue US Terrorism and expand its scope, and he said so prior to the election. If you voted for Obama, you voted for a terrorist and continued terrorism; Bush is just doing what was just mandated by the election. "But I voted for change when I voted for Obama, not more terrorist barbarism" will be a common thought but very incorrect as Obama vowed to continue and even escalate the current terrorist barbarisms. Thus those being portrayed as terrorists by the Propaganda and Indoctrination Systems are actually the opposite and trying to fight the massive terrorist barbarisms wrought by the US Empire and its cobelligerents.
That is how things really are.
"But, I'm a civil person and hate no one."
"Do you provide money to the Imperial government?"
"Yes, I always pay my taxes on time."
"Then you directly fund the biggest terrorist organization on the planet, and become a terrorist yourself by extension."
"But... But... But.... NOoooo!!!!"
"Sorry, but that's reality."
The reality is also that taxation is a real hydra and it's impossible to avoid providing money to the Imperial government, which makes even me, despite all my efforts, a terrorist too.
"When we suspect that a Palestinian fighter is hiding in a house, we shoot it with a missile and then with two tank shells, and then a bulldozer hits the wall. It causes damage but it prevents the loss of life among soldiers."
--------------------------------
Your mother must be so proud of you.
"Should be prosecuted" and "will be prosecuted" are very distinct issues. Perhaps the overly confident author (who wrote the subtext) might do well to review the attempts to bring Ariel Sharon to a wars crimes tribunal for his role in the Sabra and Shatila Massacres in Lebanon between 16-18 September 1982 where between 700 and 3500 unarmed Palestinian refugees where raped and murdered by the Israeli supported Phalangist Militia. The war crime at Sabra and Shatila is as gruesome as any large scale slaughter of civilians and the blood on Ariel Sharons and the Israelis hands will never be washed away. How do you propose to "prosecute" the current Israeli thugs when they have more US support than at any time in the past???
Terry Scott @ http://ampal.blogspot.com
Visit also http://www.indictsharon.net/
We are all Gazans
By Cindy Sheehan
from afterdowninstreet dot org (1-7-09)
note: Commondreams has decided to stop carrying Cindy's articles. I've decided to print them here.
------------------------------------------
My eyes are red from crying as I write this.
The images of bloody babies and maimed children and mothers and fathers wailing in pain are too much for me to bear!
Today, the defense forces of Yahweh's "Chosen People" bombed two UN refugee centers. The schools, which Israel knew were being used as refugee centers (the UN was idiotic enough to give the GPS coordinates?) were demolished, dozens of innocent Gazans killed and Israel makes the convenient claim that Hamas was using the playgrounds as rocket-launching pads, which has been denied by the UN.
Mr. "One President at a Time" famously said: "I am not against war, I am against dumb wars." Even though he has resisted commenting on the horror being perpetrated in Gaza right now, we know what side he is going to weigh in on, as when he was in Jerusalem in July, 2008 and told Israeli president Shimon Peres: "For most of Israel's 60 years, you have been deeply involved in this miracle that has blossomed," and while in Sderot, in Southern Israel, which is, as most of Israel is, built on Palestinian land, he affirmed Israel's right to defend itself from the very weak Hamas rockets. Memo to Mr. "Only One President at a Time," we know you love Israel and get that you long ago sold out to the American-Israel Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the US/Israel imperial-military cabal, but no Palestinian baby has fired rockets from Gaza.
I am here to tell Obama, that war is not dumb: IT'S EVIL! All war is evil. From the war on poor people of color here in American streets to the genocidal wars of aggression against Arab peoples waged by America and Israel: all war is completely, absolutely, incontrovertibly and atrociously evil. Until Congress and the Knesset and respective administrations come down off of their muy macho and extremely racist perches of death and destruction, we have no "hope" at all for any kind of profound and positive "change."
George Bush is a lame duck idiot who has always supported death and destruction and welcomed both Republican and Democratic allegiance to the war machine. He is finally leaving and we are overjoyed, but should we celebrate an incoming administration that feels it's okay to comment its brains out about the economy, but when it comes to sticking up for the helpless sitting ducks in Gaza he cops-out with lightening speed and amazing alacrity?
I am sick, sick, sick of babies, children and other innocents paying the price of greedy and bloodthirsty governments. I feel a deep sense of helplessness at the carnage as many of my colleagues and much of the "peace" movement wants to give the incoming war-monster, Zionists a "chance." Well, I say: BULLSHIT!
At the rate Israel is slaughtering Gazans, hundreds of more will die and thousands more will be wounded when Doctors have no medicine or supplies; and tens of thousands are frightened and starving while Obama remains silent. Silence is complicity and if we follow the lead of our misleaders, we are complicit also.
What can we do? Tax time is coming up. Your taxes have been paying for death and destruction since you started paying them, no matter how old or young you are. Do you sleep peacefully at night knowing that your hard earned money is going towards paying for killing Gazan babies? Iraqi babies? Afghan babies? I rarely sleep peacefully at night anymore, but not because I fund the US/Israel war machine.
I am going to call on the supervisors of the City of San Francisco to divest of any holdings or investments in Israeli companies. The violent apartheid of all Palestinian people must stop and a fair and humane solution must be economically forced with mostly white Israel as it was with South Africa. You can start a similar movement in your own city or join others that are already in place.
Our protests must be organized and smart to force our elected officials to finally do the humane thing. Most of our federal elected officials are bought and paid for by AIPAC which has seemingly unlimited resources and influences much legislation in our government to be pro-Israel.
How many babies must be massacred before we get righteously outraged and decide to carry the moral water for this fascist government and speak with one voice crying out for peace and justice?
When Gazans are being systematically killed by American made bombs dropped from American made planes and being strafed with American made bullets shot from American made helicopters, we can do no less.
That was a very powerful article. This is off-track but I wonder, why commondreams stopped carrying her articles?
Why did CD stop carrying Cindy Sheehan? IMO the editors of CD ought to make a monthly report to the readership as to WHY certain decisions are made. Although I enjoy CDs articles and forums transparency is non existent around here.
Not all of us *are* Gazans, not all of us are terrorists.
This is simply the result of missles being fired into Israel. Stop the missles, stop the killing. Israel is 100% in the right here Cindy. Sorry.
Yeah never mind "cast lead" has been planned for 6 months, that Israel broke the cease fire first in the fall by bombing tunnels, and that the timing of this massacre just happens to coincide with the run up to Israel's election.
Facts are pesky things aren't they GooseStep?
Is that Goose as in Goose-Step?
Yes, firing the rockets continually into Isreal led here, but its far, far more complicated than that. Israel is not 100% in the right here. Its absurd to claim that.
Aside from that, this is way past who's to blame. Both sides and their supporters are to blame. Thats plainly evident and cannot be questioned.
Yes Thomas Moore, it is. I agree with many of your posts, but this is the Palestinian war. They asked for it. They fought for it. They provoked it.
This is Israel's chance to silence a lot of Hamas voices. The claim that this will make the Palestinians more radical is silly. The dial only goes to 10 and it has been there for ages. What is needed here is a real humiliation of the Hamas supporters. Once that happens and they agree not to fire rockets, then you get peace. If there is going to be some ceasefire as reported with foreign troops to make sure that Hamas doesn't re-arm, then go on an open the border with Egypt if Egypt will do it. Open the ports and airspace, Palestine deserves that. But not the Israeli border. There is no need ever again to allow Palestinians to cross over. Seal it off and forget they're there. They can't play well with others so they need to be shut off from the rest of the world.
As for Egypt opening their border, I don't know if that is going to happen. Mubarek has no desire to let in Palestinains either.
And that's why God punishes Israel with a horrible economy and no middle class.
You are sorry Goose.
I like Cindy Sheehan. I was able to visit the NYC Camp Casey on Union Square,NYC --not too many yards from Gandhi's wonderful bronze statue by Kantilal B. Patel (google it) and take photos. My only comment re the article, is that Jews use the word "ashem", never "yaweh",which I never heard until I occassionaly tuned in to Right wing Born Again Radio, where they were pretending to be Jews (looking for converts to Christianity).
Howard Zinn refers to American exceptionalism, the idea that Americans are better than other people, thus justifying atrocities committed by my government. In the Middle East, this notion of exceptionalism, that Israelis are better than their neighbors is used to justify atrocities they commit.
I pray with all my heart that Obama does all he can to bring an end to these fantasies that make violent solutions seem glorious. He will need every ounce of prodding and/or support we can muster.
rumiluv:Please make it clear that Howard Zinn isn't supporting the concept of "American exceptionalism", he is explaining it. I heard it in his speech of Nov.8,2008, played on DemocracyNow on Jan.2,2009, transcript is online, free. Fab speech: www.democracynow.org Phyllis Bennis on Hugh Hamilton's show "Talk Back" on Monday, Jan.5, 2009, archived for 90 days, suggests that Israel is using US ways in the attack on Gaza. She says it better. www.wbai.org. She was also on DemocracyNow that morning for segment. I really really like your last line.
Aren't UN marked buildings, such as Red Cross buildings, not to be fired upon? To say there were militants in a safehouse is covering their behinds for a war crime against innocent civilians.
When their houses are bombed, where are the people to go? This is proof that they are to be wiped out anywhere they try to find refuge from the onslaught.
As far as trying Israel and the US for war crimes, that will happen when pigs fly.
Israel charged for war crimes? Hardeeharhar! Israel will get away with murder as always. I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see that day in my lifetime.
You'll forgive me if I don't agree with the "murder" remark, but there is no doubt in my mind that you are 100% right. There won't be any charges of war crimes for either side.
Good people can disagree.
How MANY times has this idea popped up for various individuals and groups in the past 8 years? How many times has it actually happened and resulted in justice? God's chosen people behaving badly; it's happened before and no one will stop it.
Did Israel get charged or prosecuted for war crimes after it savaged Lebanon in the summer of 2006?
No. But they should have been. I have to assume the cluster weapons they layered South Lebanon with in the closing hours of the war (an international war crime), are still returning on that Zionist investment...killing and maiming innocent people for years to come. That was, and this war is, simply put, despicable cowardice. Attacking unarmed people (a tiny percentage have rockets) with impunity, to safeguard their own sorry skins.
One of the things that has struck me about the "brave IDF" is how they injure people, and never offer assistance afterward...which should be standard practice in wartime...when the enemy has been made safe, you offer medical care.
The case that stands out for me, among many, was the murder of Rachel Corrie. The "brave" IDF bulldozer operator who murdered her, did it, then continued destroying more Palestinian homes, as if nothing had happened. He ran her over, causing fatal injuries that gave her an agonizing death. He never stopped and offered assistance after the fact of his brutality, because he meant to do it. Israel claimed the bulldozer driver didn't see her, but she was wearing an orange vest and was shouting into a bullhorn trying to get them to stop destroying Palestinian's homes when the bulldozer driver killed her by driving over her body. No assistance offered, none provided.
A similar thing happened to a young Palestinian girl who made a mistake and crossed into an IDF fire zone, and she was shot. They knew she was no threat, but shot her anyway. And then, as she lay helpless, grievously wounded, the commander of the group, walked to her, and murdered her in cold blood, emptying his clip into her helpless body. Not only was there no aid offered, the coward shot her dead for no reason whatsoever. She was no threat to anyone, and they simply murdered her.
This is the legacy of modern day Israel. Cold blooded killers who justify their savage mayhem with Zionist exceptionalism...they can do no wrong, because they are "god's chosen people", aka THE MASTER RACE!
guntotinganglion
"A similar thing happened to a young Palestinian girl who made a mistake and crossed into an IDF fire zone, and she was shot. They knew she was no threat, but shot her anyway. And then, as she lay helpless, grievously wounded, the commander of the group, walked to her, and murdered her in cold blood, emptying his clip into her helpless body. Not only was there no aid offered, the coward shot her dead for no reason whatsoever. She was no threat to anyone, and they simply murdered her."
I never saw a report like this one. Where and when did this happen? How did you find out about it? Do you have a link to the report about this?
TM he is no doubt refering to this incident:
"Muddying the waters further were the next actions of “Captain R,” the company commander, who approached Iman—wounded, according to Palestinian witnesses, but alive and lying on the ground helpless—and first fired two shots into her at close range to “confirm the kill.” Then, according to IDF witnesses, he walked a short distance away, turned back, approached the child again and emptied the magazine of his automatic weapon into her body.
Although the IDF did admit fairly promptly that Iman’s shooting had been “a mistake,” “Captain R’s” initial explanation was that as he approached the child, he came under fire from militants some 300 yards away, and fired into the ground to deter fire. His superiors at first accepted his version of events, despite some notable lapses of logic. (How does firing at the ground “deter fire”? And since when, many asked, had the IDF been hesitant about returning Palestinian fire? And if the soldiers feared that Iman’s book bag held explosives, why risk detonation by spraying automatic fire near it?)
Still, as needless as Iman’s death seemed, the case might have ended there—as has happened with the deaths of so many other Palestinian children—had not soldiers in the Givati brigade anonymously approached the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot with a very different version of the events. It was they who testified to “Captain R’s” approaching the fallen child and “confirming the kill” with a hail of automatic fire. They expressed outrage that their own reputations as honorable soldiers had been “besmirched” by the commander’s insistence on “confirming the kill” of an unarmed schoolgirl."
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Jan_Feb_2005/0501009.html
Posting a link is always a good idea, even you don't have it at hand links can usually be found under a minute on google.
hootowl
THses soldiers are not all brutes then, turns out it was the Israeli soldiers that brought this to light.
"had not soldiers in the Givati brigade anonymously approached the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot with a very different version of the events. It was they who testified to “Captain R’s” approaching the fallen child and “confirming the kill” with a hail of automatic fire. They expressed outrage that their own reputations as honorable soldiers had been “besmirched” by the commander’s insistence on “confirming the kill” of an unarmed schoolgirl."
I read his account, he is a liar....
His own men should have shot the SOB, I'm sure they wanted to and probably would have if they thougt they could get away with it. Jesus, there are some real bastards that get loose.
Thanks for the link.
>>A similar thing happened to a young Palestinian girl who made a mistake and crossed into an IDF fire zone, and she was shot. They knew she was no threat, but shot her anyway. And then, as she lay helpless, grievously wounded, the commander of the group, walked to her, and murdered her in cold blood, emptying his clip into her helpless body. Not only was there no aid offered, the coward shot her dead for no reason whatsoever. She was no threat to anyone, and they simply murdered her."
This is exactly what Happened. The IDF had identified her as a schoolgirl. In fact one person called in "Sheis just a schoolgirl and is terrified..she looks 10 years old" The Commander in question replied "I do not care if she is 3 years old, shoot her"
When she was then shot...he went to the dying girl and emptied his clip into her.
He was cleared of all charges.
In another case a young Palestinian Girl tried to enter a Mosque. A MALE Israeli soldier stopped her and indicated he was going to do a search of her. The Girl asked that a female guard search her instead as is the normal procedure.
The Male Israeli Guard refused..she turned to flee and he shot her dead.
In another case three Boys were out buying Chocolate bars at a local store. They had been cooped up all day in the house due to an Israeli enforced curfew. The father and neighbours had belived the curfew lifted.
A car arrived on the scene its occupant honking his horn, warning everyone in the markeptplace to flee as an Israeli tank was coming. The boys got on their bicycles to flee. A tank entered the square and fired a round on the fleeing boys killing a 6 year old and his older brother.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/21/schoolsworldwide.israel
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0706-02.htm
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/396.htm
Just a small sampling. The IDF is chock full of BRUTES.
I don't doubt there are brutes on both sides. Its a shanme they didn't pot the SOB. And his commander.
The problem Thomas is the IDF are not held accountable. These examples are only a very small sample of what goes on on a daily bases.
In virtually every case those involved are exonerated of their crimes. This means that the IDF soon fills with people like the Commander or the soldier shooting a man bound and blindfolded or the man who shoots a girl in the back because she would be too ashamed were a man to strip search her so flees instead.
The massacares at Shatila, the dropping of cluster bombs all over South Lebanon, the bombing of hospitals, Un buildings, the execution of paramedics and the like are INVESTIGATED if someone happens to catch the incident on film and then after months the person(s) involved are exonerated.
The net result is the entire force over time becomes corrupt.
YES there are good soldiers in the IDF who are speaking up. But the fact is THOSE soldiers are on the margins in Israeli society and are seen as traitors by many Israelis and by its Military.
This is the same thing that happens in the United States Military. The person who reported the Abu Ghraib tortures saw his Military career ended. Soldiers that do speak up against the US excesses are branded by others
as "Anti_american" and US bashers.
I read Military type boards based in the United States where Abu Ghraib was discussed, or the various beating deaths at Bagram, or the rape and burning of that Girl in Iraq and on virually every one of these boards anyone who condemned these incidents was branded as anti-american, a traitor and told they should leave the country if they did not like it.
When this mentality becomes pervasive , then the brutality becomes acceptable and when it becomes acceptable it becomes part and parcel of the group in question.
Again I feel you have ingrained inside you this image of the Soldier as some paragon of virtue, duty and honor. I suggest that if the "cause" being served is the wrong one , and the soldier simply follows orders or goes along with the crowd, then they can be NONE of those things.
"Again I feel you have ingrained inside you this image of the Soldier as some paragon of virtue, duty and honor."
Paragon is to strong a word for sure. But most soldiers do have the virtues of coutry,duty and honor. Virtue...soldier....no different than any other people.
Don't dwell on the negatives which considering the numbers involved are few and it won't look the same to you. If you look with an anti-military mind you will find whatever you want. But its no different than the civilian world except every single sector of offense, rape...what have you is less in the military.
If they lost, how come there are no more Hezbollah missles coming into Israel? Seems like a victory to me...
Because the Israeli military turned southern Lebanon into a cluster bomb minefield...
Yeah like Mission Accomplished (LOL). What planet is Goosestep on?
Avazz is urging a call-in to representatives for comprehensive cease fire in Gaza
http://www.avaaz.org/avaaz_gaza_congress_action
21 hours of savage attacks, 3 hours of "humanitarian" aid, every day...such a deal! The Zionists supply the food and medicine needed, then they kill the people they gave the food and medicine to. Sounds like a devil's bargain to me.
It would please me greatly to see war crimes prosecutions brought against Israeli and US leaders. I am not however holding my breath until it happens.
More spectacular bloodlettings have occurred elsewhere true, but they in no way lessen the crimes of Israel against humanity.
Israel has committed war crimes in the Gaza strip, this is not unusual - for Israel. Israel is the child state born from a war crime. It has inherited all the venal, mean, greedy attributes of it's vile parent the Third Reich of Adolph Hitler and the fascist supporters of Nazism.
Yes Israel should be charged, if it cannot be prosecuted, convicted, sentenced and penalized well that is really too bad for Justice, but charge it for sure, without the first step nothing happens.
By all means charge the rogue.
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
"Israel has committed war crimes in the Gaza strip, this is not unusual - for Israel. Israel is the child state born from a war crime. It has inherited all the venal, mean, greedy attributes of it's vile parent the Third Reich of Adolph Hitler and the fascist supporters of Nazism."
This is true.
I think more people are shocked and dismayed by what Israel has done and is doing because it (the experiment that the Jews claim as their own) represents an opportunity for redemption of the human specie. If the Jewish people could actually have learned from the heinous actions of others perpetrated on their own people, then there would have been hope for the rest of humanity to finally gain some wisdom and progress as a specie. Unfortunately, Israel is proving to the world that we will never learn, and therefore are beyond redemption.
This is a bitter pill to swallow...unless the rest of us choose not to look the other way this time.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Agreed. A conviction in absentia would still be meaningful.
"The scene at the church was unbelievable. It was horrendous. On the floor were dead bodies of mostly women and children cut in pieces"
report from the congo, end of December 2008. several hundred refugees hiding in a church, are chopped to death, 120 homes burned.
Every day, world wide, there are war crimes.
Nothing special, or different here.
What a petty attempt to deflect the discussion away from Israel's sins.
What's "special" about the assault on Gazans is the fact that it's being executed with explicit US approval.
The atrocities in the Congo - or anywhere else - do not in any way diminish the outrageousness of Israel's war on the Palestinians.
q
i think the point trying to be made is that there is no outrage for the people of the congo.........................
yes that is the point, thanks
it's an excellent observation, that many people around the globe, since the end of the second world war, have been murdered by genocidal governments, in central africa, south asia and even here in the western hemisphere. these abuses of human rights are often unrecognized by the american public - cambodia, e timor and rwanda for example - .
few americans could find the highlands of guatemala on a map let alone understand that 25-30 years ago 100,000's were sacrificed in central america by fascist governments killing indigenous people. the military juntas received training and guns from places like the USA (reagan - school of the americas) and israel, as a bulwark against 'communism'. come to think of it there were israeli and american special forces in georgia last year, when the russians intervened.
but -- 'Nothing special, or different here ' -- i disagree...
a few unique qualities concerning israel...
what's special here is the blood of ww2 is still symbolically/in reality on our hands. the anglo/americans created this monstrosity, by ignoring the pleas of the palestinians and through enormous amounts of military aid given to israel over the years. american veto power in the security council and US military hardware/munitions are undeniably responsible for the state of israel and the causalities on the ground in gaza.
there's a certain amount of white guilt/pride going on in america when the conversation comes around to israel and the cause of the palestinians. it's b/c the israelis are actually europeans (accultured in the heart of europe) - and it's difficult to concieve (in a brainwashed american mind) that the same culture that brought the world exceptional analysis (- freud, marx, einstien -) and provided the world with detailed descriptions of the horrors of the gas chambers and death camps (elie wiesel, and victor frankl) would be as cruel as their persecuters.
it's incomprehensible to many americans, weaned on the 700 club and films like schindler's list and munich to imagine that such a people would inflict such suffering upon another people (collectively) -- or that israelis could align themselves w/ other pariah regimes like south africa that brutally suppress the rights of the majority, mimicking the same tactics that all brutal regimes (including the nazis) employ. there's an embedded inability of americans to disassociate jews from israel, which both denigrates the name of moral jews, while emboldening the israeli state giving it moral superiority by association w/ a people who suffered tremendously.
so there's the guilt trip that we didn't assist the jews fleeing nazi europe (valid point), then there's the jesus thing.
americans (especially born again/fundamentalist christians who may have more power in the republican party now that mccain went down in flames) identify the european jews w/ the holy land and jesus. this support is irrational and unlikely to be swayed by presentation of evidence. this segment of the population (demonstrably susceptible to lies) has always been willing to blindly support the zionist state of israel.
then of course there's the historical legacy of the crusades, and the disregard for muslems during that time.
plus there's the added component that in the final analysis, israel has nuclear weapons. if israel feels threatened it can regress into a masada complex and press the button igniting the entire region (and perhaps the world) in seconds, of course we gave them the (or allowed them to acquire) nuclear weapons.
it's a mind fuck, we're supposed to feel deep sympathy for israeli citizens who can't sleep as their government kills palestinians at a rate of 100 to one. apparently the wild west didn't end at the end of the 19th century.
...peace...
- continued...
an example of revisionist history that orwell would admire--
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/masada.html
{I suspect there are two reasons the Talmud omits the story of Masada. First, many rabbis still felt a lingering anger toward the extremist Zealots who died at Masada. We know that Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai had to flee Jerusalem secretly to avoid being killed by the sort of people who died there. Furthermore, at a time when the rabbis were desperately attempting to reconstruct a Judaism that could survive without a Temple and without a sovereign state, they hardly were interested in glorifying the mass suicide of Jews who believed that life without sovereignty was not worth living.
The story of Masada survives in the writings of Josephus. But not many Jews read Josephus, and for well over fifteen hundred years, it was a more or less forgotten episode in Jewish history. Then, in the 1920s, the Hebrew writer Isaac Lamdan wrote "Masada," a poetic history of the anguished Jewish fight against a world full of enemies. According to Professor David Roskies, Lamdan's poem, "more than any other text, later inspired the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto." In recent years, Masada became widely known through the excavations of the late Israeli archaeologist Yigael Yadin. In addition to finding two mikvaot (ritual baths) and a synagogue used by Masada's defenders, he uncovered twenty-five skeletons of men, women, and children. In 1969, they were buried at Masada with full military honors.
The term "Masada complex" is sometimes applied critically to advocates of right-wing policies in the Israeli government. Political scientist Susan Hattis Rolef has defined this "complex" as "the conviction ... that it is preferable to fight to the end rather than to surrender and acquiesce to the loss of independent statehood."}
...peace...
Good stuff iowablackbird, very thought provoking.
I am amazed that anyone could work White and Black racism into this discussion. Its mind boggling.
THe BBC says casualty figures in gaza cannot be independently verified, and then it says Israel wont let reporters in.
Sooo, why dont they say--some officials say death figures in Gaza may actually be much higher?
If they said that-it would put pressure on israel to let them in.
Instead, they just let Israel get away with it.
Listen here Quinty--very good indeed!--very good has become the new very bad. There's more to life than very good. Please, add a few more words to your comments--but not too many!-or methinks you are a robot!
Dr Wu, the last of the big-time thinkers
Yes. I keep waiting for someone to spend time discussing the horrific idea of fighting on tightly packed cities. I live in a city that has high rises,apartments, just as Gaza has high rise buildings where people are inside. The very thought of "urban warfare" is horrendous. Period. Manhattan has about the same amount of people as Gaza. It's not like a movie, using digital special effects. Occupations, invasions, bombings of civilians are war crimes. Be sure to add the administration of the US also, for selling the equipment, military stuff raining down...in Gaza. And the US government war crimes in Iraq. And Afghanistan.
NYCartist
Unfortunately if your opponent is mixed in with a civilian population, using them for cover or just moving through the area this is what you get. Forget the "horrific idea of fighting on tightly packed cities", its horrific in any urban situation, even a sparsely populated small town. Even worse when you can't tell the fighters from the civilians.
Don't forget to add the Iranians, Saudi's and Syrians to the list for providing the weapons to Hamas. This is not a one sided conflict don't forget where only one side bears fault.
What was the art you did for protest? Could you please describe it?
Thomas More:I am losing patience (an older woman). Read what the UNRA spokesperson in the school said today on DemocracyNow. "I am 99.99% there were no militants... as we screen carefully" in the school compound. He spoke live from Gaza and asked for an independent investigation. He said not just 3 hours for a corridor to deliver humanitarian:food,but stopping all bombing is required. He would not take sides. Thomas:I live in a crowded city with highrise apartment houses. You can't do what Israel is doing and not kill a lot of civilians. Please read the short segment: www.democracynow.org He also pointed out that the Israeli's were given the coordinates about three times to make sure the school was not hit. Maybe I misunderstood you.
Thomas:you just redeeemed yourself with that charming question:what does the art look like. I took a photo of someone walking in the snow in Dec. in NYC, with an umbrella. Can't tell if it's a man or woman in trousers. There were tire tracks from one city garage to another making arcs behind the person. I "saw" in my head, as I lay abed between sleep and wake state, listening to my favorite radio station, a mellow voice, woman reading something:in my head, I could see blood on the snow and the words "Fallujah" and "Gaza" in the white between some of the tire treads arcs. I worked it out a few days later, paint for blood. I did that on one side of a regular size piece of paper, so I could fold it like a card. On the other side, which would be the back, I put a collage using flowers and butterfly that I saw in NYC (butterflies on the street are rare, as am I!), photos of collaged, with other bits I've created over the years. Also a peace symbol, dove. I listed cities (it can't be complete):Guernica, Warsaw, Fallujah, Gaza). It's my opinion. More? Thanks. I love working on verbalizing art for people who can't see it. My skills are not yet able to put my art online, but its detail would be lost anyway, I think. Thanks so much for asking.
Thank God I'm redeemed! That was a wonderful description!
"Read what the UNRA spokesperson in the school said today on DemocracyNow. "I am 99.99% there were no militants... as we screen carefully" in the school compound"
Lets just say I'm a bit less trusting, plus by experience I know the guy hasn't got a clue if there were militants in the compound or not, or around it. He can't. Screen carefully my fopot. Aside from that no investigation would tell you if they were around there or not.
I remember well reports just like this about things I was involved in or witnessed and I wouldn't have recognized it friom the reports they put out.
I'm just an old dog that doesn't trust early reports or unsupported stories out of combat zones. Can't help it. Don't believe the Israeli either. They probably don't know what really happened yet either.
Thomas More:thanks for comment on art description. The man from the UN (UNRA)asked for an investigation. He says they screened the civilians coming into the UN compound. Did you read what he said? This place you call a "combat zone" is a tightly packed urban area of 1 1/2 million people. Picture Manhattan, Thomas. Lastly, I shall sadly say My Lai. The result of assuming civilians are not civilians.
That cannot happen. The ICC does not have jurisdiction over Israel or Egypt therfore has no jurisdiction over Gaza. That means it may not try anyone in the conflict unless referred to the security council and the US has veto power there so that is not going to happen.
Sorry. :-)
Actually, you are very much mistaken. If a legal claim is filed with the legal system of any signatory, ANY individual charged with war crimes MUST be arrested and held for trial. This is why the terrorist US Congress passed a bill calling for the invasion of the Hague if any of its nationals comes under its sway. I'm sure the Terrorist Zionist state has done something similar.
Oh snap, keep coming back at these Ziofascists hard, it's exactly what they deserve.
Wow, and who is going to charge them? Not the US, who will veto any attempts in the UN. Not the UK, who will simply sit on their hands and abstain, because they haven't the courage to show their hand.
This World makes me sick.
Disband the UN, and rebuild a new organisation, where there is no power of veto for any "special" country. Make the new organisation truly independent - no, don't ask me how you can do that, because I haven't got a clue!
Is anyone out there working on a space ship, so that I can get as far away from this evil, corrupt self destructive planet as soon as possible?
AndyUK
"Disband the UN, and rebuild a new organisation, where there is no power of veto for any "special" country. Make the new organisation truly independent - no, don't ask me how you can do that, because I haven't got a clue!"
It wouldn't be that hard to put it together, but it would still retain the problem of the current UN, it would have no ability to enforce its decisions. Without that, its just another debating society.
i've got a nice bin liner if you want and some string....................
The opening of a "humanitarian corridor" is a shill. Gaza has ALWAYS been dependent upon the Israelis allowing supplies into the permanently besieged city of Gaza. The spin here is that the Israelis are doing something "new" and "peace-inducing". Sorry, it is not new.
However, Israel has not been completely immune from the world's outrage. Following international pressure on the escalating humanitarian crisis, Israel has agreed to establish a humanitarian corridor near Gaza city.
**um
isnt Israel supposed to do that already-since it has Gaza under occupation?
Its great how it offers to do stuff that it is obligated to do, while demanding Palestinians give up stuff like, oh i dont know, trying to defend themselves against Israel?
The willful idiocy of jewish supremacy beliefs is irritating.
There is absolutely no excuse for the murder of children. Haven't the Jews learned anything from the Holocaust?
If Isreal took all the money it's spending on war, death and destruction and put it into researching and building a practical missle defense system, they could stop or at least minimize the Hamas rocket attacks. The US could help with this technology. Has anybody thought about this?
How strange. The Holocaust was perpetrated based upon false accusations that Jews murdered children. Now, sixty years later those accusations are being turned into dead bodies and blood by the IDF.
Israel, in the name of all jews, is murdering children. Ask Israeli citizens on the street and they are all for it.
Israel may have the "right" to exist but I say we remove the means and let them deal with their neighbors on their own steam.
Fighting the forces of rather dim lighting wherever they may be found!!
Missle defense systems are too costly and never work. Besides, even if Dubya had one built, 9/11 wouldn't have been stopped. Israel could instead improve its education, build a middle class which it lacks, and quit its racist policies with all its money.
Markymark
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper if Hamas just quit shooting rockets into Israel? The Israeli would have had no excuse/cause for this ground incursion without that.
Thomas,
Up until a short while ago, I may have let this pass. However, I have had my attitude adjusted simply by reading a few quotes from various Israeli leaders through the years. Put simply, Israel has always been, from its inception, about taking land from the Palestinians. If that meant doing away with Palestinians to get the land that the founding Zionists felt God willed to them, then so be it.
In view of that - fuck a few rockets! The Israeli experiment is built on genocide. We have had ours in the US, and now it is happening in Israel. Question is, do we stand by and let dark history repeat itself - or do we open our eyes and our consciences?
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
http://monabaker.com/quotes.htm
Ted....don't let anything pass. How the heck can we get at the real truth if nobody throws a snowball and says..........
"I have had my attitude adjusted simply by reading a few quotes from various Israeli leaders through the years. Put simply, Israel has always been, from its inception, about taking land from the Palestinians"
No doubt, but if you look back you will find quotes by Arab leaders to the same degree and more. Thats what makes this damn thing so hard. Both sides are FULLY to blame.
Lets say your state is declared a member of the US and a few hours later Mexico and Canada bomb your state capital killing many civilians and immediately send troops a nd tanks in to invade. Lets say you manage to beat them off, but a few years later they attack you again and over the years constantly threaten your people and kill them one or two at a time. Then about 20 years later these same Arab countries that deny your right to even exiist and declare that its holy to kill you, blockade your country, close the strits to you, mass armor and artillery along your border, mass troops, pracytically the whole of their armies on your border and instead of waithing for them to attack, you attack first as any nation would and you take the West Bank, from which they have been attacking your settlements every year, the Golan Heights from which your settlements have been shelled and has always threatened that part of your copuntry plus the Gaza strip which has always been a pain in your bottom.
And the folks that have attacked you complain when you won't give the land back so they can do the same thing again. Then the Palestinians in Gaza are kept in Gaza, Israel will no longer let them come there.
Guess what...not one Arab or Muslim country will allow one of those poor Palestinians to immigrate to their country or to even live inside their country.
Then terroists start firing rockets into your country from Gaza. You have various cease fires and finally you say, OK we will remove all our citizens, we will give Gaza top you to govern as an independent state. Guess what, the Israeli are condemned because they won't support thee Palesinians in Gaza. Then Hamas, a terroist group is elected as their government . They fire thousands of rockets into your country.....and finally you respond to protect youyrself. There's one vioew that is absolutely correct...a bit bare boned , but correct.
Now I can write one very much like it except from the Palestinian viewpoint thats not much different as far as they are concerned.
My point is that if you favor one side or the other its not hard to find supporting data. My view is that two wrongs won't make a right and they have both been wrong various times.
The genocide claim is a load of Bull Shit in my opinion. If that was there aim you would be looking at a smoking crater that used to be Gaza and the 1.5 that lived there would be dead.
Look at the incursion. This has been a controlled incursion, looks to have been as carefully done as they could....looking from the outside. My estimation of their tactics. The death toll would be in the tens of thousands otherwise.
As to the rockets....ask who started shooting first as soon as the three hours was up. I do not know, but I'm willing to bet it was Hamas that loosed rockets first. This is politics.
"We have had ours in the US, and now it is happening in Israel. Question is, do we stand by and let dark history repeat itself - or do we open our eyes and our consciences?"
I know of no genocide in our history. If you are referring to the Indians I can only repeast That was been debunked years ago. Ward Churchill and the ones like him brewed that story up for their own purposes.
The second part of your question is the one that matters to me. And my answer is no. But Bush is worthless to us. And though Gaza is not the top priority for our new President, I'm sure they will do their best to find some kind of solution. This fighting will end. But the probl;em will remain.
Israel is not going anyplace, nor are the Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. If we can get some kind of agreement with Iran, Syria and the Saudis, perhaps we could bring peace to the region. I'd bet the Israeli and the Palestinians would buy it.
Long winded I know, but its not that simple and its hard to encapsulate a lot of years in a few sentences.
This is a bit of my opinon, worth its weight in sand, but still its what I know and what I think.
P.S. Those quotes you had, you can bet your bippy there are folks in Israel that feel exactly that way. And the quotes from Arab leaders about wiping Jews and Israel from the face of the earth, you can bet there is another cadre of Arabs and Muslims that feel exactly that way.
"I know of no genocide in our history. If you are referring to the Indians I can only repeast That was been debunked years ago. Ward Churchill and the ones like him brewed that story up for their own purposes."
Thomas,
I think you are either historically naive, or are only willing to see what you want to see. Not an uncommon occurrence, but sad just the same.
The Trail of Tears was not made up, neither was what Columbus did to the people of Hispaniola. Genocide has happened throughout history, no matter what name we apply to it (or don't). And we, the good ol' US of Americans, have been part of it. That's our dark history and we need to learn from that. That we are a rapacious nation that seems not to want to stop at anything, is a direct byproduct of our history. We can't change history, but we sure as hell can see it for what it is so that we may change ourselves.
Your reasoning that Gaza would be a crater if genocide were taking place is simplistic, and not very helpful, especially to those in Gaza right now. There is no magic number of dead that determines what genocide is. Rather, it is a systematic attempt to wipe out a people, based on racial, ethnic, or national lines. In this case, Israel wants Palestinian land and is using nationality to wipe them out. That they haven't done it militarily in one fell swoop does not mean that they haven't tried other methods, such as encircling them, taking their land, not allowing them the freedom to work or get food or goods.
Agreed, this is not a simple situation. The Palestinian organizations have used violence against civilians. It seems an intractable problem, but the use of such overwhelming force, targeted AT civilians (yes, it is!), are not the tactics of a responsible state, but rather a terrorist organization. By the very descriptions of the laws of war, such overwhelmingly brutal asymmetry without regard for civilian casualties describes fourth generation warfare as carried out by terrorists.
Finally, you might take note that the Israelis have had a total media blackout. Why? Does this sound like something a country does when conducting a righteous and lawful military event? What is it they don't want the world to know? I would ask this of any country or organization, and do.
If we don't decry this and call it what it is - terrorism - then we are begging history to repeat itself. There is a point where we have a choice to keep looking and asking questions, or to look away and say that it's all just too complicated.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Thomas More:Hi. I was surprised at what Phyllis Bennis said about this. www.democracynow.org on Jan.5,2009. I am unable to quote, but it's short. I heard her discuss it on Hugh Hamilton's WBAI show later in the day www.wbai.org archived for 90 days free. It's Pacifica's NYC station, where Amy Goodman was and started DemocracyNow. She was also WBAI 99.5FM news director.
I was surprised listening to this morning's DemocracyNow (on WBAI), to hear Allan Nairn speak about his and Amy Goodman's being in the attack on civilians in Dily, East Timor in 1991. That it was that long ago! I remember it, having been listening in "real time" way back then, to tape of the attack, how Nairn had gotten a concussion from Indonesian soldiers attacking Dily Catholics at a funeral outside a cemetery. A journalist hid video in the ground in the cemetery and went back for it later;smuggled it out. I heard Amy G. call in to WBAI later that night, live. She was trying to get support for the civilians,to get Congress to stop supporting the Indonesian military, which finally happened. Today Nairn, who has a great blog online, longtime journalist, at one time with the New Yorker (which has Seymour Hersh,etc now)is a longtime reporter on Indonesia.)
He was talking today, also,about Admiral Blair going to get the job of NSA chief, and would be boss to the new CIA chief,Leon Panetta. I remember when Blair disobeyed orders at the time of Indonesia's exit from E. Timor. He was told to tell the Indonesia military to stop the militias killing,etc. on their way out. Read about it on today's show transcript. His main point is that Obama will have to chose if he wants to go back to "how it was" pre-Bush or make the decision to stop allowing support of the US, CIA in torturing and killing of civilians. I suggest you read it. Not a long piece.
I will read it.
"His main point is that Obama will have to chose if he wants to go back to "how it was" pre-Bush or make the decision to stop allowing support of the US, CIA in torturing and killing of civilians."
I believe that decision is absolutely made. Obama, nor any decent person wouldn't buy Bush's tactics. Obama has already decided this I believe.
"The idea is for the Israeli military to lay down its weapons every day from 1 pm to 4 pm starting today (Wednesday) in the area of the city of Gaza," an Israeli source was quoted as saying.
How generous.
Very good.
You are going to be very busy writing "Very good" after every post.
World opinion (sans US leaders under AIPAC's thumb) is against Israel. You had better get to work telling the world that their opinion is "Very good" as well.
very good, wtf........................
Such an absurd title.
It may also rain money.
'such an absurd title'...................
such an absurd scenario...............
Very good.
"When we suspect that a Palestinian fighter is hiding in a house, we shoot it with a missile and then with two tank shells, and then a bulldozer hits the wall. It causes damage but it prevents the loss of life among soldiers."
What??? So if the suspicions are incorrect, a house, potentially with children inside, has been hit with a missile, two tank shells and been bulldozed for no reason. This is just wrong.
It looks like people are starting to wake up to he fact that the Israelis government orders blatant war crimes against innocent civilians. The question is what can we DO as Americans who fund Israel's crimes to stop this? Protests iMO are just ignored and I doubt very much our calls mean much when Israel's lobbyists fund campaigns for both parties. Any other ideas?
hootowl:fair question. Howard Zinn's speech of Nov.8,2008 was played on DemocracyNow on Jan. 2,2009 and the transcript is online. It was so good (and well organized), I automatically started taking notes, in case I wanted to quote. (Yes, I know I could have gone to the website later: www.democracynow.org.) And, if you can, read his "You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train" 2003 Edition, Boston:Beacon Press, his autobio, even if just the intro. The book, when you read his life story is like a "how to" work for social change, justice... It's my favorite book.
For sources, there's many listed under many articles. There's a march in DC on Saturday by the A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition http://answer.pephost.org/
Scan the comments still up on other "threads"/articles on the topic for this past week. There's a lot of links/groups. Howard Zinn's speech ends with "join a cause. You'll feel better. You'll sleep better at night.". He suggested joining a group. I have done art in protest, last weekend (took me awhile to figure it out), made copies and have been sending out a few at a time as I am physically able. I can't do much, but as Chomsky once said, "every bit helps". Zinn also notes in his "You Can't Be Neutral..." intro., that you never know what small thing you do will inspire someone else.
I have gone to more protests than I can count in the last 20 years, listen to democracynow, and read here and counterpunch and antiwar.com, post on many forums and the war machine slogs on. I suspect the key is money, in this case AIPAC buying off our politicians and the 3 + billion/year supplied to Israel by the U.S. Stop that money and the whole thing grinds to a halt.
H O W ?
Do you think the Civil Rights Act would have been passed without the sit-in at the southern diner or without Rosa Parks sitting in the front of a bus or without the many protests and marches? There are as many ways as there are people willing to take a stand.
If you believe (as do I) that the key is money, then boycott Israel and make it known http://www.monabaker.com/boycottisraeliproducts.htm. Or, withhold your taxes. There are websites dedicated to just that action.
That is HOW.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
"Do you think the Civil Rights Act would have been passed without the sit-in at the southern diner or without Rosa Parks sitting in the front of a bus or without the many protests and marches? There are as many ways as there are people willing to take a stand."
Very true, but the problems we are discussing these days are a bird's of a very different feather and those tactics that worked for that won't fly now. (in my opinion)
Its about as realistic as the thought that we would ever have a revolution in our country by the poor.
Then what is your solution now, Thomas? If you poo-poo solutions by individuals, what do you suggest in its place?
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
To restore our government to the system it should be and hass been.
Publicly declare your opposition to funding terrorism (and all war is terrorism) and stop paying taxes.
Not paying taxes doesn't do any good unless MANY millions join you, it just means the state has an excuse to seize your goods and put you in jail, screw that, the first rule of striking blows against the state is "don't get caught." Do you think the French resistance gave themselves away with futile gestures like tax resistance?
hootowl,
If you are waiting for a grand solution, you'll wait 'til hell freezes over.
You MUST do what YOU can do. Withholding your taxes (if that's what you choose to do) is what YOU can do, and it DOES mean something. The paralysis that is caused by waiting for the one perfect solution is the real enemy.
Do it, just... Well, you get the point.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Very good.
"Israel has committed war crimes and should be prosecuted in an international court . . . ."
Yes, and so should Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and every goddamned neocon in the US government.
Good luck with that.
Until we have serious media reform in the US and Europe, the popluace will remain ignorant of the truth in this forsaken region. Their ignorance is the base of Israel's power.
q
We won't have media reform until the media is not corporate owned. The media will be corporate owned until the media spotlights who owns it. A real catch-22!
I think what's needed now is for progressive organizations to pool resources to train and equip progressive citizens to do our own news reporting. The problem is how to get that reporting out to the general ingnorati.
Where is V when we need him?
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
"Where is V when we need him?"
He is us.
Very good.