People Can Handle the Truth About War
Some readers resented The Washington Post for publishing an Associated Press photograph of a critically wounded Iraqi child being lifted from the rubble of his home in Baghdad’s Sadr City “after a U.S. airstrike.”
Two-year-old Ali Hussein later died in a hospital.
As the saying goes, the picture was worth a thousand words because it showed the true horrors of this war.
Neither side is immune from killing Iraqi civilians. But Americans should be aware of their own responsibility for inflicting death and pain on the innocent.
The Post’s ombudsman, Deborah Howell, said about 20 readers complained about the photo, while a few readers praised The Post for publishing the stark picture on Page 1.
Some mothers said they were offended that their children might see the picture, though one wonders whether their youngsters watch television and play with violent videos in a pretend world.
From the start of the unprovoked U.S. “shock and awe” invasion of Iraq in March 2003, the government tried to bar the news media from photographing flag-draped coffins of American soldiers returning from Iraq. A Freedom of Information lawsuit forced the government to release pictures of returning coffins.
Howell said some readers felt the photo of the Iraqi boy was “an anti-war statement; some thought it was in poor taste.” Well, so is war.
Howell said her boss, Executive Editor Len Downie, “is cautious about such photos.”
“We have seldom been able to show the human impact of the fighting on Iraqis,” Downie was quoted as saying. “We decided this was a rare instance in which we had a powerful image with which to do so.”
It’s unclear to me why this was deemed to be “rare.” After five years of war, there is finally one photo that is supposed to say it all?
Howell said she checked hundreds of U.S. front pages on the Internet but saw the AP photo nowhere else.
That makes me wonder why the media have shied away from telling the story about Iraqi civilian casualties. News people and editors were more courageous during the Vietnam War. What are they afraid of now?
Who can forget the shocking picture of the little Vietnamese girl running down a road, aflame from a napalm attack?
And who can forget the picture of South Vietnamese Police Chief Nguyen Ngoc Loan putting a gun to the temple of a young member of the Viet Cong and executing him on a Saigon street?
I don’t remember any American outcry against the media for showing the horror of war when those photographs were published. Were we braver then? Or maybe more conscience stricken?
Of course, the Pentagon did not enjoy such images coming out of Saigon in that era. Most Americans found them appalling, as further evidence of our misbegotten venture in Vietnam. Americans rallied to the streets in protest and eventually persuaded President Lyndon Johnson to give up his dreams of re-election in 1968.
Some Americans believe the media were to blame for the U.S. defeat in Vietnam. Nonsense.
Johnson knew the war was unwinnable, especially after the 1968 Tet offensive and the request by Army Gen. William Westmoreland for 200,000 more troops, in addition to the 500,000 already in Vietnam.
The Pentagon made a command decision after the Vietnam War to get better control of the dissemination of information in future wars. That led then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to create an office of disinformation at the start of the Iraqi war. It was later disbanded after howls from the media.
More recently, we have seen the Pentagon’s propaganda efforts take the form of carefully coaching retired generals about how to spin the Iraq war when they appear on television as alleged military experts. The New York Times’ revelations about those pet generals have cast a pall over their reputations.
Too often in this war, the news media seem to have tried to shield the public from the suffering this war has brought to Americans and Iraqis.
It’s not the job of the media to protect the nation from the reality of war. Rather, it is up to the media to tell the people the truth. They can handle it.
Helen Thomas is a columnist for Hearst Newspapers.
Copyright 2008 Hearst Newspapers
Helen Thomas knows well the power of Corporate Media. She’s the last journalist standing. Don’t sit down any time soon, Ms Thomas, we need you now more than ever.
“Some mothers said they were offended that their children might see the picture, though one wonders whether their youngsters watch television and play with violent videos in a pretend world”
I wonder if the mother of two year old Ali Hussein was “offended” that her child died in a strike by the occupiers. The self righteousness of these American mothers is outrageous.
I recognize the probability that most CD-ers know of Susan Sontag’s contribution to one of the underlying issues of Ms Thomas’s observation, her 2002 _Regarding the Pain of Others_; I, nevertheless, feel compelled to recommend Sontag’s book.
So the Republicans don’t want to see the result of their flag-waving, giddily ignorant support for the country’s “born again” president. I wish we could get photographs of the mayhem, gore and madness every day of the war. A few heads off the shoulders. A few random limbs here and there. I am so disgusted by the “proper” people of the United States who followed this madman criminal because he said he was with Jesus. Well, the American Jesus has proven to be anything but the true Jesus. The American, Republican Jesus is truly the anti-Christ and yet the Republicans still follow it. Kill in the name of God. How else can these anti-Christian Christians sleep at night? They’re okay with killing as long as Jesus ( or Bush since the Christian/Republican marriage) dictates it should be so. Shame on you. Just looking at Bush’s face with that Satanic nose is much more horrendous than showing the truth (a truth that might end the madness) about that creature’s policies created through criminal and immoral methods.
The media are the propaganda branch of the empire, and they are doing a fine job from that perspective. The internet is the main challenge to this propaganda. Let’s make sure we keep it free and uncensored. As for the mainstream media, a lot needs to change before there can be any hope that it would report on wars truthfully. One of the main jobs of the media is the exact opposite, to sell us wars.
Arabs attacked the US
ergo
their suffering is irrelevant.
They also hate Jews.
That’s probably how it works in the minds of many Americans who are indifferent to the “collateral damage.”
Arab lands are “Injun country.”
The Corporate Media is a major problem.
If it changed, it would have an affect on people(just as 24 has a big effect on how the military leaders regard torture).
No, people cannot handle the truth of a war in which they are combattants. Had the people of the British Empire been told the truth about WWI it would have ended in 1915. Had the truth about the cold war been realized there wouldn’t have been the arms race whose bills you still pay, and will pay for many decades to come. We need the manufactured opinions to give us reason to pay for these needless conflicts, to keep the rich in the lifestyle to which they’ve become acustomed. To do otherwise would force us to beat our leaders bloody.
I think Mothers Day started out as a peace movement or a way to call for an end to seeing sons (now daughters, too) go to war.
To save their children from endless war for increasingly scared resources — which is what the Pentagon is planning for — American mothers will have to decide on a lifestyle that doesn’t require so much fossil fuel. No more SUVs, huge homes to heat, tons of throw-away plastic toys and goods.
How about a Mothers Day where mothers renounce our consumption driven lifestyle and demand that the U.S. join together with all nations to develop sustainable energy resources we can share instead of offering up our children (and others) in sacrifice through war.
No, Ms.Thomas, people CAN’T handle it. We want to be insulated from the consequences of our brutality.
MosntersRUs, you know.
how inconvenient for these people who thought the picture in poor taste and that their children might see it…………..but it’s ok to watch stupid gladiator movies where as much death and destruction is portrayed. oh, but that’s only make-believe isn’t it? so that’s alright. that poor iraqi child deprived of his future by an illegal invasion/occupation. and people complain about the photo…………we need MORE photos like this to wake the people up about what is going on in iraq…………
Here is the photo that Ms Thomas is referring to for those who may not have seen it and might wish to do so. As I said yesterday, it should be taped to the windshield of every military aircraft and beside every display of their cool new “Above All” motto.
The media is corporate controlled – think fascist and fascism – and is only accountable to its master. I don’t recall free speech zones during the Viet Nam conflict but I do remember the flag draped coffins returning to Dover. I also remember that there was a draft back then and therefore the suffering of America was distributed to the broader spectrum of lower income people instead of the few now who enlist
And yes, we were braver then and the further back we go the braver the heart seems to be…
The “little Vietnamese girl running. . .” is a person with a name, Phan Thi Kim Phuc. She recovered, emigrated, and now lives in Ontario with her husband and children. She is a powerful speaker and has worked to help child victims of war around the world.
Hearing her speak a couple of years ago reminded me that these individuals aren’t a collective “them;” each one has a name, a family, and his or her own story. It is shameful that we are responsible for such destruction without having to see or hear the stories of those who suffer as a result.
Commonreader;
Mother’s day was a marketing campaign started by Halmark (or another card company). It had nothing to do with the peace movement, or womans’ sufferage, human rights or the truth.
That photo places a true face on Bush, Cheney, Reid, Pelosi, the military, the media, and all the callous disengaged American citizens. Spread this photo far and wide.
Why do we always assume that the media (or the Democrats) are “afraid” to put the truth out there, or to confront the administration? More likely, they are willingly complicit in adminstration policies. Those who DO speak out, such as Sen Byrd, are not the rare “brave” ones, they are the rare ones who actually oppose the administration’s policies. Same with the media. Courage has nothing to do with it.
Bush doesn’t want the truth shown. It was the same after Hiroshima the pics taken a few days after were never shown as America would be against the BOMB and using it. It wasn’t till long after the war did some get shown
This war was created for Greed and by Lies.
The next war will happen before the next election for President. Bank on it. Why ? Because they can and they are being lead by Greed and untruths.
Want reality and truth…. this will open your eyes and see whom will realy benefit by Bombing Iran. It sure isn’t The Americans.
This is a video made by real Heros , then and now , because they dared to speak up and uncover the lies.
Watch and learn who is realy behind the next war.
Loss of Liberty
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/18.html
The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty
If we will all wake up and see the truths , then maybe we can save our childrens future.
Thanks, Helen.
The truth is, the cheerleaders for the more recent phases of the Iraq war included most of the US MSM. The truth is, based on past experience, the dead would be expected to exceed 1,000,000. The truth is, the US military knew Iraq had no WMDs ; they don’t have the courage to take the casualties associated with WMDs, only to inflict them. The truth is, the Iraq happened due to a large scale conspiracy to commit mass murder, which is a capital crime and not protected free speech.
The truth is, many in the mass media deserve to be in jail awaiting trial in Iraq.
The photo is heartbreaking. We should keep seeing photos like this until the heartbreak caused by our actions becomes real to us, so real we take responsibility.
This is why the best of our troops come home with minds in shatters. They know.
Thank you again Helen Thomas.
There are far too many people living in a fantasy world. They put yellow ribbons on the SUV and that’s the closest they will ever come to war. They say “God bless our troops” but have no idea what the troops are going through. They actually believe that war ‘over there’ makes things safer ‘over here’. Hey just export death and destruction with no return address! The joke of it all is that they keep the troops over in that hellhole while professing to stand by them.
They live in their own Never Never Land. The truth about the war would shock them to death.
jclientelle May 9th, 2008 3:27 pm — “The photo is heartbreaking. We should keep seeing photos like this until the heartbreak caused by our actions becomes real to us, so real we take responsibility.”
There’s certainly no shortage of civilian casualty photos. So many, in fact, that they may actually tend to overwhelm the senses after a while. Here are just two months worth taken during March and April, 2003. Be forewarned that many of them are very difficult to look at.
inflammatory posting deleted by author
The news media may not be responsible for the defeat of the USA in Viet Nam, but they are certainly responsible for getting us into Iraq. They presented lies as truth, pressed for the invasion with a one-sided debate, and continue to disinform the public about conditions in the field.
kent shaw - When I read your prior post I was a little annoyed. I was going to reply that you do not know what others are doing aside from posting on the internet. Many of us have our taxes deducted from our pay before we even get our hands on it. A lot of us are doing a lot of things all the time. Some of us have been in jail.
But I did not write because I respect your passion and share your frustration. Both are absolutely appropriate to the situation. It is so upsetting, but we should love and strengthen each other, not turn on each other.
I am happy to see that for some reason you decided to give your kindred spirits a break, because a lot of us are out there trying.
I often wonder how many anti-abortion folks are pro-Iraq War? Right to life???? Remember Terri Shivo? Was it GWB who said it was best to err on the side of life and keep her plugged in? Give me a f***in break!!
HelenJean, Arvy, thanks for the links. I am not only repulsed by rightist extremist Jews but by right wing Americans too. Washington will not investigate and do anything. It’s time for a well funded private citizen investigation. Washington is lost.
mahanna wrote, ‘[Helen Thomas] is the last journalist standing.’ how true, and she’s one of the reasons why many of us stay in the fight.
“What are they afraid of now?”
They’re afraid of losing their precious 6-figure paycheck and “never working in this town again.”
Plus, the falsely termed “reporters” and “journalists” and “editors” employed by Big Corp Media are secretly wrought with guilt and shame for playing - and continuing to play - full-court enablers to the tiny cult of lying anti-American war criminals and profiteers responsible for murdering and maiming millions of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, US soldiers and private contractors.
They’re not hiding the “truth of illegal invasions and occupations” from We The People, they’re hiding it from themselves.
Finally, a voice of sanity, thank you Helen Thomas. Please keep reminding us of the obvious - there are so few of you left.
fargokantrowitz May 9th, 2008 12:59 pm
Golly….Satanic? I think he is just stupid and a useful tool for Cheney and his tribe of Neocons.
Hollow point May 9th, 2008 2:48 pm
If you had been sitting in an LST waiting to land on Japans shore you might revise your thinking. As pointed out above, the further from the fact, the braver people are, the easier a decision is.
“they don’t have the courage to take the casualties associated with WMDs, only to inflict them.”
I’d look in the mirror before calling iother men cowards. It displays ignorance to say something like this. And it only helps the Bush/Cheney types.
Its time some here knock off the constant attack on people and things they don’t know much about. It was fashionable in the sixties to trash soldiers, the military and those that stood, most of them drafted……..it was wrong then, its wrong now. Most of our troops are National Guardsmen in case you haven’t noticed and if you think they want to be there you’re crazy.
skippyagogo41
commonreader is correct about the origins of Mother’s Day in the U.S. Just because it was later commercialized doesn’t mean it didn’t have righteous roots - look at the outrageous use of classic rock and roll to sell everything these days… John Lennon, Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix are turning in their graves along with many other artists. see below for more info or http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mothersday/a/jwh.htm
Julia Ward Howe’s Mother’s Day for Peace
By Jone Johnson Lewis, About.com
•Howe became well-known during and after the American Civil War as the author of the words to the “Battle Hymn of the Republic,” but was horrified by the carnage of the Civil War and the Franco-Prussian War
•in 1870, she tried to issue a manifesto for peace at international peace conferences in London and Paris (it was much like the later Mother’s Day Peace Proclamation)
• in 1872, she began promoting the idea of a “Mother’s Day for Peace” to be celebrated on June 2, honoring peace, motherhood and womanhood
• in 1873, women in 18 cities in America held a Mother’s Day for Pace gathering
• Boston celebrated the Mother’s Day for Peace for at least 10 years
• the celebrations died out when Howe was no longer paying most of the cost for them, although some celebrations continued for 30 years
• Howe turned her efforts to working for peace and women’s rights in other ways
• a stamp was issued in honor of Julia Ward Howe in 1988 — no mention of Mother’s Day, though
Commonreader, those are great ideas. check out www.momsrising.org which is trying to raise similar issues
as a parent and a human being, that photo rips into my heart. Bravo to the Washington Post for publishing it, and to Helen Thomas for drawing more attention to it.
For what noble cause has Bush and his Evilgelicals bankrupt America and gone to the ends of the earth to murder this two year old child?
I sincerely do hope, that none here ever has to bury one of their own young children. I know of nothng worse and I promise you, you never ever want to know. __ NEVER
We sometimes hear of mothers burying their chldren in Iraq, but we hear it far to infrequently. When we do hear of it, we think and say how horrible it is, how terribly sad and ujust it is ____and we sincerely mean it.
That photo is about a close to realizaton of the Iraqi war and occupation as most Americans will ever experience and it should be published in every newspaper and news magazine in our country. And for any to say they are offended, is likely just their own personal guilt for ever believing our attacking Iraq was justified in the first place.
Thank you for being you Helen.
Had the people of the British Empire been told the truth about WWI it would have ended in 1915.
Hey Skippy : How stupid do you think the British were ? When roughly two hundred and fifty thousand soldiers per year didn’t comehome on leave when they were supposed to , do you think that the widows thought they were still in some mam’zelles’ arms ? When twice that many did come home with sometimes nothing more than a torso with an unseeing and an unhearing head , do you think it was just the injuries of a hotly rivalled , inter-regimental cricket match ?
Despite the lies and almost lies in all the newspapers , British civilians knew the truth like Americans know the truth but it’s hard to admit to yourself without doing something about it except sending cookies to the “front”and waving a union jack ( equivalent of a dumb-ass yellow bumpersticker . Remember , even advocating desertion like I post was treason . The British Army executed about a thousand soldiers for desertion ; Americans , 0
They knew the truth ; British troops were getting clobbered , but hey , when God is on your side and your cause is just , remember we’re British and we ‘ll prevail.
Now just change British to American and the last four phrases, “when…prevail are applicable today.
Well stated ~THOMAS MORE~ well stated.
This is a comment made on another site where I linked to this article (with the photo). CAN SOMEONE HELP ME FORMULATE A REPLY??
“No offense, but I’m a military wife and military friend to those in the marines. I have to say the picture is bad and terrible, but in every way it was necessary. The parents of those kids will send them out with bombs strapped to them because they know Americans protect children, so now these soldiers have to look past the fact that they are kids and see them as devices. It is unfortunate but it is the position this war has put on our military. There is no real right and wrong in war with these people and so what to us is extremely horrible, is completely necessary in the world they are living in right now.
Also, I believe the public has no right to know everything that is happening. Destruction is not something people want to hear about, they like living in their happy little lives. On top of that I believe the media tells too much in fact. They give locations and tactics away like its nothing and that pisses me off. Everyone knows there is death and destruction that happens, but all Americans need to know are a few facts, how the war is going, how many of our men have died, and where is this going. Thats it anything more then that is too much information for the public to know. These terroists live amoung us and all information given to us they get and there for goes our one up. Its ridiculous.”
Bombs don’t kill civilians. Bush does.
Well done Hellen.
Its time for all the strong women in America to speak out.
The national spy machine setup by the DHS , using corporations and the IAFF community watch gruops , has done its best to create Red Squad terrorist groups across this country for the purpose of targeting any anti war groups, they need to be uncovered and shut down ASAP.
They have done great damage to Patriotic Citizens who have done thier best to help save our country and Constitution.
Major media are all a part of this anti-American klan.
They need to be sued.
NO Immunity for groups, organizations and corporations who have failed to protect the constitution from “Enemys foreign and Domestic”
All the money won in suits should be used to help our vetrans and their familys.
~XAN~ Do you honestly think that two year old had a bomb strapped to his body?
You say, “In EVERY WAY IT WAS NECESSARY”. The ones who conducted the airstrike that killed the innocent child knew that two year old kid was armed and deadly?
You know what ~XAN~ you are so mind warped it’s pitiful. How many of them like you are there? And don’t give me the military crap, I’m retired militay after serving 23 years and two South East Asia tours, so I know about unjust and unnecessary war first hand.
You asked for someone to please help you formulate a reply. ____ Okay, try this:__ “I wish that I was dead, because I’m so damn sick in the head, I’m afraid of myself.”
Back during the Vietnam era, even Republicans knew that there are issues that are clearly moral and that certain facts can’t be denied, i.e. everyone knows that using horrible weaponry on people is immoral, whichever side they’re on. That’s why the anti-war protests back then included such a vast range of people. But such recognition of common humanity and common morality was killed during the Reagan era, and particularly once the right wing was allowed to take over the media after the 1987 rescinding of the Fairness Doctrine. Since then, Americans don’t even think there are such things as facts, let alone moral facts. To post-Reagan Americans, facts and morals are just points of view, matters of opinion, beliefs that can be manipulated to influence people. Hence, the outrage at a factual photo of a murdered child. In the 60s, that photo and more would have been printed in more than just one paper and no one would have claimed that it was “inappropriate,” a stupid word if there ever was one.
Kem Patrick,
I think that if you had read Xan’s post more carefully you would have seen that he had posted a comment from another site and he was too horrified to find words for an adequate reponse. At least, that is how I read it.
An apology is probably in order.
Thank you diabeteslife, you are correct.
KEM PATRICK - Someone ELSE wrote that on another site, and I am at a loss as to how to reply to them, or if it is even worth the effort.
Thank you for the photos Arvy.
Parents can sign their dirt-bag, drunken son into the military and in a couple of months he will return for a visit sporting clean pressed clothes and a neat haircut. Every word out of his mouth will be prefaced by a “Yes, Sir.” That’s what Moms and Dads know about the U.S. military, and they find it hard to fault. In my opinion their clean-cut kid is a criminal.
HelenJean: Thanks for the link about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. It happened before I was born and I don’t remember learning anything about it in school (surprise, surprise).
Are there still people out there who believe that Sept 11th ‘just happened”? Just like the Liberty, it was a coordinated attack. The military planes that should have flown to the assistance of the Liberty didn’t. Just like the military planes that should have flown on Sept 11 didn’t. In both cases, the survivor’s stories have not been heard or acknowledged. The Liberty attack was staged and Syria was going to be set up to take the blame. Just like Pearl Harbor. Just like Tet. And just like the August or October surprise will be set up for Iran to take the blame.
It’s the same sh*% over and over and over again. And I can not understand why seemingly intelligent people continually fall for it.
U.S. armed forces (heavily armed) are in Iraq on one side of Iran, and in Afghanistan on the other side of Iran, and U.S. naval forces are right up in their faces in the Gulf. Oh, I’m sure anything that “happens” will be their fault, their “provocative action”—I can just imagine the cool nerve and decorum with which Americans would behave were Iranians in Canada and Mexico….
.
Orwell was right………Big Brother is watching.
Also Big Brother is progaming what we see and hear…..Ergo what we think.
I don’t know if we can handle the truth?????
Doses of reality, might make us mad….Real Truth>>>>Real Mad.
.
Xan I understood your original request but sorry, I cannot think of an adequate response either. Perhaps it is best to simply let it BE. It does give one a sense of the challenge in being human in such inhuman times. Bless you for reaching out, and KemPatrick simply shot from the hip and did not read your post with enough care. If he comes back here and sees it, he will apologize as he is a decent sort—abit hot headed at times, but aren’t we all? If not, I will take the liberty of apologizing for him. (smile)
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Xan: I also cannot come up with a reply to that brainwashed individual. Having been married a long time ago to a military officer (fortunately not during a war), I know how “careful” a person, especially a woman, must be as a military spouse (some are akin to a Stepford Wife). I know that if I tried to reply to that posting myself, I’d end up writing something basically unprintable and full of rage. And while rage is appropriate after seeing such a photo, rage is useless unless transformed into energy for change. Americans need to see more of these photos and see them everyday. After a while, hopefully not long, most decent human beings living in the United States will react and attempt to stop our leaders’ aggression throughout the world, just as people worldwide are reacting to the Myanmar government’s decision not to allow UN food to reach its cyclone-stricken citizens. Unfortunately, that military spouse probably won’t be one of those protesting–too many cleaning chemicals to shake out of her (or his) brain.
Oops!! Sincere apologies ~~~~XAN~~~~ from the too quick quick on the trigger old fart. And ~Star of the Sea is correct~, I am truely sorry if I offended or hurt you in any way. Forgive me.
Send that response I offered to the other one. Or forget it, he/she wouldn’t understand anyway.
Just before the illegal invasion of Iraq, only 27% of those polled thought the coming war was a bad idea. Now that number has more than doubled. Truth is, most Americans thought they were going to be entertained with cool gun camera videos and looked forward to watching it all on TV from the comfort of their living rooms. Oh joy…what fun! Now their consciences are bothering them and they don’t want to see the truth of the degradation of war that they themselves encouraged.
I get the impression watching the mainstream news that there are no Iraqis in Iraq…just some American soldiers strolling up and down empty streets, kicking in an occasional door and discharging their weapons around corners at nothing in particular. If 100yr. McCain has his way I suppose there will eventually be no Iraqis in Iraq. Especially at the rate we are killing their children.
Xan, maybe I’m foolish for even trying, but there’s only one way to respond to that post, IMO, other than to ignore it completely, and that’s to ignore the details and cut to the chase:
“Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no threat to the US, so we have no business being in Iraq, killing anyone at all. Period.”
Ronald White;
No, not stupid. Misled, misled about the true cost of the war, the cost of lives, the sacrifice of their empire to fight a war that could have been avoided. The press never reported accurately about the conditions of the battles, it was reported in heroic terms. They were urged to keep fighting because no one wanted the dead to have died in vain. Had they known that the end result of the war would mean the begining of the end of their empire, they’d not have put up with it. But they could not have known, nor would they have been allowed to have known.
I always heard that mom’s day was started by a card company, my bad.
The only reason that they ran this photo is because the kid is virtually undamaged. He looks like he is asleep. Most bodies in a war zone have their heads blown off etc. They are much more gross than this one.
It is America’s premeditated ignorance of the circumstances leading up to the war, and the circumstances of the conflict itself that allows us as a nation to acquiesce. Like the good Germans of Hitler’s time, we can pretend that we’re ignorant of the atrocities and crimes committed in our name. It does not remove the culpability of those who knew, or should have known, that this war was based on lies. Nor does it remove our responsibility as citizens of this country to ensure that we do not continue to return to Congress and to the Executive branch those who are continuing the Bush administration policy, or who are too weak to stand up to it. The fact is, we (the USA) are killing thousands of innocent people in an illegal and immoral occupation. Digest that, and try to go to the mall to bury your guilt by buying more unnecessary, frivolous, made-in-china detritus to cram into your already overstuffed closets.
From Arthur Sibler
“Far too many Americans will believe anything, regardless of its absurdity, if it accords with their preexisting illusions and their preferred view of themselves. We exist on lies, lies and more lies.”
And Helen Thomas knows that the difference in coverage of the Vietnam War and today is not because we had a free press then, we did not, Operation Mockingbird made sure of that. The difference was that in the 60’s and into the 70’s, the PTB were about CREATING civil unrest to create conditions leading to revolution which they would then crush and use as an excuse to scrap the Constitution by 1976. Hence any coverage that stirred things up was encouraged to be reported. They funded the anti-war protests and civil right protests, arranged assassinations of 2 brothers, a Catholic President and candidate for President (they got JFK Jr in 1999), and MLK, an African American leader. It wasn’t enough.
Americans had already been turned into a nation of spineless wimps and walking brain dead, and a narcissistic sect whose only interest was in getting laid and their next joint, or in finding Jesus, and the PTB recognized the people were no longer a threat to their rule. So they took a different path, the TLC was formed in 1973 and they decided to just take what they wanted, and forget about a Constitutional Convention that would lead to a Declaration of Interdependence, which was a cover for One World Government.
“You shall have one world government, whether or not you like it, by consent or by conquest.” Former FDR aide, James Warburg CFR/TLC, in testimony before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 17 Feb 1950.
So they gave us Watergate, sacrificing one of their own to get people to trust in the media and in the mythical governments checks and balances which Woodrow Wilosn and FDR had already dismantled.
They funded the feminist movement to dupe women into the workplace and stop them from having too many kids, since they wanted population growth to come from illegal immigrants, both which served to create surplus labour to eliminate unions and lower wage inflation. They started the War on Drugs, even as they allowed the drugs to flood the country, so they could create the worlds largest prison population and keep African Americans off the street breeding and voting. And yes, they even unleased HIV and AIDS on blacks and gays in the US, and in Africa. The virus was genetically engigineered so that those with genetic links to Anglo-Saxons and Merovingians, would be spared the worst, at least the heterosexuals would be.
They got the media to help coverup all this up, the main purpose being the destruction of the productive US economy, lowering Americans standard of living, dismantling of the constitution. At the same time they started dumbing down America’s young with the Federal government taking over the educational system. Drugs like Ritalin, vaccines, chemicals in the food all served to damage minds. Fluoride was put in everything, a chemical Stalin used in his concentration camps to keep prisoners docile (it also reduces fertility).
One Executive Order after another followed, Congress did their part as well, MSM spun the lies, and here we are today, most people believing in myths like the official version of 9/11, ignorant of history as their liberties and rights are removed, with their pockets being picked as easily as candy being stolen from a baby.
Wish I had an answer for how to destroy the lie. Perhaps a critical mass of truth exists that when reached will eliminate the lie, but more likely, we the best we can do is tie the score at 50-50. But right now, the score is 50-10 in the 4th quarter and the 2 minute warning has sounded. Going to take a lot more than a Hail Mary. But as Yogi said, it ain’t over until it is.
Glad to disagree with the great Helen Thomas: In no way can We handle the Truth about war, We’d be sitting down to a nice impeachment hearing if We could.
Truth is, for 99.9% of We, We feed Our Monster of War, with every step We take and every blessed breath We’re given.
I was surprised to have the Detroit Free Press publish one of my many calls for impeachment hearings, I wasn’t too surprised that they edited out the part about the Detroit area’s challenge of facing up to profiting from Halliburton’s Cost Plus program.
Without impeachment hearings going (yet, think of the Troops! innocent Civilians!) this cat’s feet are starting to burn, and the stench of mendacity from America’s hot tin roof is beginning to choke.
What’s the point of this article other than to fill idle time with idle thoughts? - lying to ourselves - mendacity at it’s best - ugh: a steamy summer of debating a 100 year war vs. maybe perhaps shortening the work shifts in well ah maybe a year or two - ugh - our mendacity, my mendacity…it’s starting to grow another tumor on my neck…help!
~MIMI CcS~. We may not have had a “free press” during the Vietnam conflict, but we did have Walter Cronkite and several others in his shadow who spoke the truth when they could insure it was the truth and we listened to them daily and we handled the truth. The truth caused Lyndon Johnson to bow out and for Nixon to bring an end to the Vietnam war.
There were young reporters all over Vietnam and at Air Force bases and on Navy ships and they filmed, photogaphed and wrote exactly what they saw and it was reported, good or bad. We saw dead bodies daily from both sides, we saw some of the atrocities that were committed. So to state the war coverage of Vietnam and Iraq are in any manner similar is absolutely false.
And the POINT of this artile ~PUCK TWAIN~ is an attempt by a fine reporter to write a article, to tell us in some way what is actually happening in Iraq and for the most part, happenings we seldom see.
Major newspapers should show pictures much grosser than that.
Put it all out there. Show Everything!
Scary movies come out every weekend. Whats the difference?
Helen is right, Americans can handle the horrors of war. After all, the US itself was built on an illegal occupation, on the bloodshed and genocide of the real owners of the land, Native Americans.
Today most Americans just pretend to despise war and warmongers like Bush. But Bush is merely a reflection of the people of this nation. 95% of the world serial killers live in the United States, which is by far the greatest consumer of illegal drugs, the world’s greatest polluter, the greatest exporter of arms, the greatest sponsors and financiers of terrorism and guerrilla in the world and perhaps the most brutal imperial force in history (in millions killed, or are China and the old Russia ahead? still, the US is up there with them). Not to mention the fattest, one the least educated and most sexually repressed people on the planet.
Yes, we can handle war.
What is pathetic to me is that we have so little imagination that we even need an actual picture to bring attention to the horrors of war. Multiply that child by a thousand or more, now take away a few limbs and add a lot more blood and you’ve only just scratched the surface. It is positively sociopathic that people like the one XAN quoted are able to distance themselves the way they do.
Well Kem Patrick, I’d like to see pictures appear daily in the media to express the civilian/human cost of the aparthieding of the Middle East, so I will applaud Thomas for addressing the picture issue on that point…
…however, I feel Thomas’ statement(considering the Troops in harms way, the pandemic of stress disorders, and the mounting civilian death and homelessness…) that “…it is up to the media to tell the people the truth. They can handle it.” Would be better off phrased as a question of why The People cannot handle “it”.
The “media” is also compossed of The People, so if they could handle “it”, “it” would be happening without a second thought. So, why can’t The People handle the Truth? Why can’t The People handle pictures of children whose body’s are torturously destroyed by the methodolgy of their daily commerce?
I haven’t read every single post so I don’t know if anyone else mentioned the reason this photo is so powerful to people is because the dust makes the child appear fair-skinned.
As the mother of a soldier currently in Iraq, sometimes it takes more courage for our military to return time and again (when it seems like your mission is simply to stay alive) than it is to refuse to go. It is our responsibility to protect our military personnel—to make sure that the reason they are going is just.
My son takes responsibility for signing on the line, but don’t ask him to split his attention and get political while he is trying to stay focused and alive. The task they are attempting over there is probably impossible. What are we doing to protect them—to get them out of there? We need to make that happen. Please make the call to your Senator or Representitive and tell them to quit funding the war–NOW.
Some of our loved ones are suffering unimaginable trauma over there; on alert 24/7, unknown enemies and haunting images of victims. My son became a soldier just prior to the 9/11 attacks, so he has no ax to grind with the Iraqi people—he’s just following orders from superior officers that take orders from a corrupt administration that sent our loved ones into harms way for their own selfish purposes. Not following orders seems like a no-brainer when your sitting safely at home, but the consequences for those that do can impact their lives negatively for years.
My son is already thinking of the next phase of his life. He wants to put this behind him and move on in spite of the horrific images he’s witnessed. Please don’t place the blame on him(or our soldiers)–for following orders–place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the administration and our Congress for allowing this travesty to continue.
Make sure when our veterans return that they get the help they need for as long as they need.
deang: To post-Reagan Americans, facts and morals are just points of view, matters of opinion, beliefs that can be manipulated to influence people.
This is the destructivity of unbridled liberalism. When everything is only an opinion, elites are able to override the public interests. Like capitalism, liberalism has to be constrained. The basic rule governing societies should be that public policy serve the public interests,and these are largely factual and must not be buried under propaganda. Individuals help to enforce this rule by maintaining independence from the elite establishment, starving it down small enough to drown it in the bathtub.
Moother: Your son is a war criminal.
Well then ~LITT ~ based upon how YOU define war criminals, SO ARE YOU A WAR CRIMINAL IF YOU’RE AN AMERICAN, or from any country who supported Bush on his Iraq invasion.
We elected our leaders by either voting or not voting and Bush didn’t get in office just because the Republicans stole the Florida votes. He won a lot of other states we should have insured he didn’t win by voting for Gore the first time and Kerry the second.
Hope you feel better by blasting that lady who came here to bare her soul and explain her feelings about her son.
I don’t see any mention of the death toll for civilians in Iraq, which stands at a minimum of 83,000, according to Iraq Body Count and up to as many as 150,000 according to the World Health Organization (as of January ‘08).
I guess we can handle one photo, and our kids can handle one photo, when the reality for Iraqis is quite a bit more horrifying.
Yes, I do feel better.
Baring her soul does not excuse her son’s actions. Nazi matrons can bare souls too, and I’d rather they stayed covered. Soldiers fighting in a brutal ocupation are criminals. The British soldiers in India were criminals, too. Obeying orders does not cut it.Sorry.
Please feel free to vent your anger, KEM PATRICK. This forum is open to all.
Even to war criminals.
Moother May, and all parents and family members of the Troops, and the Troops themselves:
Whether the Soldier enlisted to serve and protect family and Nation, for economic reasons, to see the world, to avoid jail, signing on the line is an act of courage that is part of the true noble Warrior character: this noble character is not given and cannot be taken away by anyone, even “the Commander and Chief”.
Thus, the character of the Soldier is not defined by the mission, it is the mission that is defined by the character of the Soldier.
By this definition this current, never clearly defined, mission is the highest expression of immorality, and meriting of impeachment hearings. Hearings to provide not just justice and uphold our Constitutional contract, but to provide a clear definition of the so called “war on terror”, and to bring the Nation back in the direction of the noble character of the Troops.
Impeach now, enlist later.
Vote in November, Impeach now.
Like I said ~LITT ~ If that’s YOUR definition of a war criminal, join the group and don’t be such a mean hypocrite and cast hurtful insults at others for your own pleasure.
BTW, I’d much rather vent anger at a mean spitited person, than to just sit and wonder why such a person can stand themselves and feel better for publicly publishing cruel remarks to another, who’s shoes they have never walked in.
“Severity is allowable when mildness is in vain.”
~Corneille~ ___ Heraclius__
Besides ~LITT~ what I first wrote to you was more for pity for you than anger. You also failed to address that if you define a war criminal as you have, then you too are a war criminal. So don’t cast stones in your glass enclave, you expose yourself for what you are.
I personally do not consider her son to be a war criminal, any more than I do for anyone in the militay service whom I don’t know and have never seen or heard of committing war crimes. If you like some others wish to consider ALL military personnel war criminals, that’s your perogative.
But you specifically singled her out for your damning of her son. ___ And for what pitiful reason?
Dear KEM: I did not single her out. I would have said the same to anyone who went to fight a war of aggression against an innocent nation. I haven’t damned her son. Innocent blood on his hands means he damned himself. I would say the same thing to my own beloved son. He would still be beloved, but that does not change what he has done.
And also: civilians who do not suport the war are not war criminals.
Perhaps it is Time to Break the Wheel
Blood, burned bodies hanging.
Outrage! Revenge! Barbarians! Savages!
Kill them until they surrender!
Give them no quarter!
Music to Bush and Company’s ears,
This cry for revenge and destruction.
If this is the people’s mood,
His forces may kill at will.
What of the Iraqi, holding a burned body,
That represents his hopes and dreams?
He sits on the ground before a burned out home,
Cradling wife or child and watching the soldiers.
What may be passing through his mind?
Outrage! Revenge! Barbarians! Savages!
Kill them until they surrender!
Give them no quarter!
Thus is this horror perpetuated
In war after war, year after year,
From Richard Cœur De Lyon
To the current tragic bloodbath.
Steve Osborn
10 April 2004
For KEM PATRICK and puck twain: I’m humbled by your support. It was based on your comments that I felt compelled to write of my son….to answer some of your questions.
I’m against this war as are a great number of our soldiers and their families. But with no one willing to stand up with them they must continue to return until their commitment is fulfilled or they return to us injured or dead. I wonder how many people that contribute to these discussions would do so if it meant, by doing so, could bring injury or death?
Litt_Wmn: how did you achieve such a sharp edge? To compare me to a Nazi matron is really appalling. I can’t help but wonder a little about you. Are you like me: white, working middle-class, female, Independent, Christian, Married? To have known then what we know now–would certainly have been helpful 5 years ago. Unfortunately we can only go on from today. Can’t we join forces and end this occupation without stooping to degrading one another? To quote George Bernard Shaw: “Progress is impossible without change and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.”
As much as I would like to say what I really think of this administration—but I’m afraid of facing charges of treason—unless Litt_Wmn has a suggestion that we can all take part in I don’t see a way out of this. Only reinstating the draft will get the nation’s attention, and I think, an end to the war.
Dear Moother: The reason I compared you to a Nazi matron was because those matrons would also say their sons had no choice but to be in the war. They DO have a choice. America has fought war after war after unprovoked war of aggression and brutality. Vietnam is only one example. This nation and its military are currently the world’s number one bully - and there are plenty of other competitors for the title. The fact that America still wins says something. So it’s not as if only the Iraq war was wrong. Almost every war America has ever been in has been a war of aggression - it is this nation’s MO. So even five years ago, there was plenty of reason to hesitate before rushing off to war. Many people were saying the WMD was a fraud, even then. And what if they HAD had WMD? Does not America have it? Does it not have the larget arsenal of WMD in the world? Does its ally Israel not have WMD? Who gave America permission to be the world’s policeman?
The only way for a soldier to expiate his crime would be to stop killing Iraqis and to offer a humble aplology to Iraqi people for the wrongs committed by himself and his colleagues. Refuse to participate in the brutalization of an innocent people. It is what I would say to my own child.
I wish your son no harm, and I do not hate you or him. What I said about him is what I would say about any soldier - in fact, MORE SO if he were my own son, because the sense of responsibility I would feel for his crimes would be that much greater.
Have mercy on Iraqis and leave them alone. They did you no harm. Why butcher them?
~Hi Moother~ You might as well face the music ~MOM~. You’re a Nazi Matron and your son is a war criminal. You know what that means. If ~LITT~ has his way, war criminals are either imprisoned or executed. He also evidently is familiar with some Nazi Matrons, knowing what they’d say about their sons.
Many people have his opinion of any military person but most don’t throw crap at other bloggers and who may have a diverse opinion and spew out very personal and hurtful attacks on them.
Of course he denies he did attack you personally, which demonstrates another serious character flaw of his personality. It’s best to just ignore him and pretend he doesn’t exist, or like a skunk, just stay clear of it.
Don’t you just love how IT adds smiley faces and starts his comments off with the word “DEAR”, acting like he’s really a swell guy. ___ Shit, where do they crawl out from?
Mainstream media rarely show photos of the horrors that Iraqis see every day.
In part that’s why I made my short YouTube video. The video has since been banned by YouTube, but it’s posted on my web site:
http://nukular-waste.tripod.com/nukular-waste.htm
I’d like to shove the reality of this war in the face of my Senators. “LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE!”
And we can all claim we are not guilty for the Bush administration and his decision to rush to war. But as dad used to say to me whenever I was even remotely associated with some wrong doings of others and protested my innocense. __ “If you live in a shit house Kem, you smell like shit.”
Now I may feel guilt that Bush is our president, even though I voted for Kerry. But I sure don’t feel guilt that I’m a war criminal. Of course I don’t think like “IT” here does. With his thinking, we Americans are all war criminals. Of course then too, if I were an Iraqi, I’d blame ALL Americans. We’d all smell like shit. ___ Maybe we ALL do?
The American people are not against war, not even this one. The turn of public opinion has occurred only because we are spending so much and accomplishing so little. There is very little moral opposition to war. People just don’t want to be reminded of what they’re doing to the Iraqi people. McCain claims to have a secret plan that will guarantee success in Iraq. Whatever it turns out to be will be costly in lives and dollars. We’re the most bellicose nation on earth and somehow, perversely, we see ourselves as the most moral.
I’m against war ~Alex~. Those imaginary lines drawn on maps do not really exist. We’re all the same under the skin. I do believe in self protection from any who may believe in war.
Unfortunantly, when powerful nations gear up for self protection, so do other nations and pretty soon it’s an arms race and before you know it we have a damn “cold war”, which can turn hot real quick when fools or madmen gain power.
Litt_Wmn;
If you’re paying taxes to the us gov’t you’re supporting the troops, and are by your own words a war criminal. It’s nice that you’re aware and able to avoid military service. Some are not, some learn the truth of the occupation only after they’ve joined up and will have to live the rest of their lives with memories that the rest of us could not understand. For the ones who love the idea of war and killing there can only be contempt, but most soldiers do not love war. They know the true cost of the act.
Bush is not a soldier, neither are any of the other leaders who dragged the usa into a war of aggression. The mothers of the soldiers are not ‘nazi supermoms’ to suggest that they are is to demonstrate your wilful ignorance of what that person was. A Nazi mother was a woman who stayed at home, barefoot, preggers and raised as many sons as possible for the military. She would never have uttered the thought of the woman whom you condemned. If there are any ‘nazi supermoms’ out there they are part of the 30 percent of the us population who still support the bush regime without question.
skippyagogo41: Do a little research before you spout, ok? It’s as simple for someone such as yourself to google wikipedia, but here’s the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother’s_Day
We can blame corporate greed for a lot of things, but please, don’t just blather without knowing what your talking about, eh?
KEM
I agree about anti war, and the rest on people you have lost.
I have a brother who is pro war and gets excited when he reads about it. He is one sick fuck for sure. So unimformed and feels some countries are above the rest so can do what they want. He needs some serious wake up and even his dyke wife is in la la land and she teaches in a UNIVERSITY. I feel both of them and a few on this web site need to be air dropped into some of the shit holes of the world the US and their friends have created in the name of democracy
No, I’m afraid according to Nuremberg soldiers who join the illegal war ARE war criminals. And it’s sheer nonsense to suggest that stereotype about Nazi moms. It’s also quite absurd to put civilians in the same box as soldiers. As for the soldiers, those who keep on going back to Iraq are neither more nor less than criminals. They are not heroes and they are committing atrocities against Iraqis.
It was also quite ridiculous for Moother to suggest that it took more courage for her son to go back to Iraq than not, and to say that we should not ask him to be “political.” Political? When people are dying?
Merely being a mother does not make one a scared cow. My own son would be a criminal if he went to Iraq, and though I would still love him, I would be ashamed of his choice.
resistor;
I do believe that I already acknowleded my oops on that topic, it’s a minor thing to boot. May Day was a fertility festival long before it was a day for workers rights. Not that that matters much either.
Litt_Wmn May 11th, 2008 12:15 pm ;
[No, I’m afraid according to Nuremberg soldiers who join the illegal war ARE war criminals. And it’s sheer nonsense to suggest that stereotype about Nazi moms. It’s also quite absurd to put civilians in the same box as soldiers. ]
I’m afraid you’re a bit off with your arguement, joining the army has never been a war crime. No one was prosecuted for joining any branch of the German Military after WWII. Some were prosecuted for what they did, more were prosecuted for what they ordered. Moreover, during WWII the civies were recognised as being the main support for the soldiers in the field, the civies made the guns, ammo, ran the trains and ships needed to get the weapons to the front. So, yes, the civies in the states (by paying your taxes, building tanks etc, selling stock whatever)are in the same box as the soldiers whom you support. If you want to blame all without exception, you’re damning yourself as well as the army cook.
[As for the soldiers, those who keep on going back to Iraq are neither more nor less than criminals. They are not heroes and they are committing atrocities against Iraqis.]
I’d argue it is what they do while there, yes the war is a crime, that doesn’t mean that the soldier who fires his weapon into the air is a killer. Not all the soldiers are out to kill as many Iraqi’s as he/she can. Not all soldiers are neocon idealists who think the sun shines out of bushes arse. Yet you’re lumping all of them together. A Private is never as responsible for his actions as is the Sergent, or for that matter the Major or the President. The Private has the option of following orders or going to jail. If he goes to jail he sits in a box, if he goes to Iraq he may be able to prevent death from happening (search and avoid, rather than search and destroy.)
[It was also quite ridiculous for Moother to suggest that it took more courage for her son to go back to Iraq than not, and to say that we should not ask him to be “political.” Political? When people are dying? ]
There’s more than one way to show courage, M. Ali was not more courageous than the soldier who when drafted to Vietnam did not fire his weapon while there.
[Merely being a mother does not make one a scared cow. My own son would be a criminal if he went to Iraq, and though I would still love him, I would be ashamed of his choice.]
I’d never refer to a mother as a ’scared cow’, that’s quite rude. (sorry, couldn’t resist making a joke of the typo) Sounds like you’re saying you would love the sinner but hate the sin…. I don’t buy that arguement when it comes out of the mouth of a fundy preacher, and I don’t buy it from you either.
As for what you say about it being about what you do while there, that’s not true either. When a bank robbery is taking place, I have no business driving the car with my fellow thugs in it. And pragmatically speaking as well, your comment falls into the realm of fantasy. What do you think soldiers do while there - kiss Iraqis on the cheek?
Winter soldier makes it very clear what they do while they are there. They kill. They kill innocent Iraqis. Perhaps by mistake. But often out of rage or revenge. But if they did not go there, they wouldn’t be killing anyone. They need to get out. They are trespassing, and they are committing crimes.
Dear Skippy:
As for what you say about it being about what you do while there, that’s not true either. When a bank robbery is taking place, I have no business driving the car with my fellow thugs in it. And pragmatically speaking as well, your comment falls into the realm of fantasy. What do you think soldiers do while there - kiss Iraqis on the cheek?
Winter soldier makes it very clear what they do while they are there. They kill. They kill innocent Iraqis. Perhaps by mistake. But often out of rage or revenge. But if they did not go there, they wouldn’t be killing anyone. They need to get out. They are trespassing, and they are committing crimes.
You have been driving the getaway car from that bank robbery. By paying taxes you are just as culpable as the soldiers who pull the trigger. My objection to what you wrote to another mother was that you think by opposing the war you are not responsible for anything that happened there. To use a christian analogy you sound like Pontius Pilate who says it’s the choice of the crowd who lives and who dies, like him you wash your hands of your own involvement in the ongoing atrocity. It’ll be decades at least before the citizens of other countries think well of the us gov’t because of their actions in Iraq, not to mention that as a result of Iraq we know more about the other atrocities committed in the name of the people of the United States of America. You might wish to say that it’s the other mothers who are to blame, it’s the soldiers who are solely responsible for their actions, that the gov’t is out of control by the people of the usa. Too freaking bad, who’s responsible for the actions of a democracy? The people, that’s who. If you are a citizen of the usa, you are part of the war crime that’s been committed in its name.
A story that I have not seen or heard on MSM or corporate media, whatever you want to call it; I heard on a radio program this weekend, a program put on by veterans against the Iraq war.
They made the statement that there have more deaths by suicide of our soldiers than there have been deaths in battle. Has anyone else heard this?
Helen Thomas writes:
That led then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to create an office of disinformation at the start of the Iraqi war. It was later disbanded after howls from the media.
An office of disinformation announces that it’s closing and you believe it?????
The photo has some elements resembling the iconic picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima.
To all those whiners, complaining about the “atrocities of war” I have but one word: “SO?”
/s/ R Cheney
First, Hurray for Helen!!
” Xan May 9th, 2008 6:41 pm
This is a comment made on another site where I linked to this article (with the photo). CAN SOMEONE HELP ME FORMULATE A REPLY?? ”
Gosh there’s a lot of good comments here. I’m not sure anyone gave you a response to that particularly twisted pov you asked about, so just in case not, could I offer that I think I’d go all “Golden Rule” on her?
I mean, it’s fine if you have to believe in some type of us verses them world. But, I’d tell her, in saying it’s okay to target children, babies, well it just about means you think it would be okay for someone to come over to our country and start bombing OUR babies. Because we’re at war, right? Because following that logic, if the other nation (or nations) were rich and powerful enough to do that to us, and THEY had a way of life to protect, it would be justifiable, correct? They would be as right in bombing us as we are in bombing other people, to defend THEIR (in your view must be horrible and barbaric, barely human) way of life.
I say she is writing off the lives of people based on where they live. Based on their national identity. That’s what I’d force her into admitting, the ninny. She believes she’s being practical. She believes it’s all about winning. But she COMPLETELY ignores what it would mean to her if she HERSELF were to have been born there. Or even if one of her children grew to adulthood and moved there, maybe had children there, her own grandchildren in Iraq could not possibly exist in her beliefs. Or reside in any other country the US might attack. Or bring to a civil war. Destabilized, ruin economically. Anywhere her family might move, or work, or visit. Vacation spots turned into war zones, that’s okay with her, though she won’t admit it. She denies any possiblity of being related to or caring or loving ANY living person anywhere that the US threatens. Because they’re all targets in those countries, from the air, with little differentiation.
She wouldn’t, couldn’t possibly feel that way if those were her children being bombed, and that’s where she sold out any ethics she had. She ought to care about the children because they are PEOPLE, not because they’re ‘mericans, and you can’t SPELL it out any other way, it violates the Golden Rule.
All this horror on other people…so we can keep our precious way of life? If you can’t live up to the most basic idea of the Golden Rule, in word or deed or even imagined hopes for the future in what horrors you do now, what good IS your precious friggin way of life?
Is good hair and nails REALLY worth being one of the Romans? The idea of murdering Jesus Christ never made you sad, you’d have been part of the fun I guess?? Cheered the lions maybe? You would have kept slaves, so you could have kept your “way of life” 150 years or so ago in America.
She reminds me of the conversation I had with a gal about the number of people in prison in America, more than any other nation by all measures. Her comment? *sarcastically* “Well, it must be because we don’t EXECUTE ours.” And that was it. Now, keep in mind, the side issue was the drug war and how many people are in prison for drugs. And this gal? Her dad was an alcohol distributer. Made a good living, put her through college. Yes, sadly a college grad typically is this blind. Because we don’t execute ours. Jeez. And she didn’t even get it. Glass of wine in her hand.
Hi Skippy! Im back.
Hey I think back in 1963 before Kennedy, and later Johnson really kicked things up a notch, South Vietmam’s people werent too happy with Nguyen Cao Ky.
Some Buddhist monks protested by dousing themselves with gasoline and lighting up. They probably werent aware of their ozone destroying act they’d , but it was worth it: They ousted a corrupt regime and PREVENTED A WAR against the peaceful people from the North.!!!!!
IMAGINE if ALL of us followed that enlightned path?
CA;
Back are you? Under what name were you posting before you left? Was it synonomous with Troll perchance?
No troll. I am what I am.
Do you have to go through one of those facist 15 day waiting periods where you are catalogued.
If you run into hassle, I’ll see if I can hook you up.
call me.
Whatever4 - I think I saw that same girl with the perfect hair, perfect dress and shoes, glass of wine in hand, chatting with friends in a photo of an art exhibit. The exhibit, appearing a few feet away from her in the same photo, was a stray dog tied up in the gallery with no food or water until he died there on the floor.
Evidently, some small percentage of people are incapable of empathy.