“On the Side of the Rebel Jesus”
The finest Christmas songs are never just Christmas songs. Though linked by reference of sentiment to the Christmastide, they are sufficiently universal in their themes to have meaning throughout the year. Surely this is why so many of us return with such frequency and glad tiding to Jackson Browne’s “The Rebel Jesus,” a song he first performed on the brilliant 1991 Chieftains album, “The Bells of Dublin.”
Over the ensuing 16 years, the song has become a favorite for celebrants of the season who suspect the Nazarene might be disinclined toward the commercial chaos that has come to characterize its contemporary expression.
So it was that, when Jackson Browne and I appeared together last week in New York, as part of the Culture Project brilliant series of discussions and performances on behalf of the impeachment movement, we spent a predictable period of time discussing the high crimes and misdemeanors of the Bush/Cheney administration, along with the prospects of replacing these lump-of-coal leaders with more deserving tribunes of the American promise — Browne’s an enthusiastic backer of John Edwards’ presidential campaign. But we spoke at somewhat greater some length of “The Rebel Jesus.”
Browne knows the song has taken on a life of its own, as all great songs do. Yet, through all the renditions over the years, by its writer and the many fine artists who have covered it, “The Rebel Jesus” remains fresh and renewing. Perhaps that is because Browne’s lyrics, world-weary and wry in their observations yet warm in their delivery, offer an ancient antidote to the dispiriting crush of commerce, the tyranny of schedules and the theft of meaning that can crowd the better angels of our nature at Christmas:
All the streets are filled with laughter and light
And the music of the season
And the merchants’ windows are all bright
With the faces of the children
And the families hurrying to their homes
As the sky darkens and freezes
They’ll be gathering around the hearths and tales
Giving thanks for all God’s graces
And the birth of the rebel Jesus
.
Well they call him by the prince of peace
And they call him by the savior
And they pray to him upon the seas
And in every bold endeavor
As they fill his churches with their pride and gold
And their faith in him increases
But they’ve turned the nature that I worshipped in
From a temple to a robber’s den
In the words of the rebel Jesus
.
We guard our world with locks and guns
And we guard our fine possessions
And once a year when Christmas comes
We give to our relations
And perhaps we give a little to the poor
If the generosity should seize us
But if any one of us should interfere
In the business of why they are poor
They get the same as the rebel Jesus
.
But please forgive me if I seem
To take the tone of judgment
For I’ve no wish to come between
This day and your enjoyment
In this life of hardship and of earthly toil
We have need for anything that frees us
So I bid you pleasure
And I bid you cheer
From a heathen and a pagan
On the side of the rebel Jesus.
John Nichols’ new book is The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders’ Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone’s Tim Dickinson hails it as a “nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the ‘heroic medicine’ that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to ‘reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.’”
Copyright © 2007 The Nation
was jesus peaceful?
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
The Christians have had 2000 years to come to some sort of agreement as to the “meaning” of Jesus and his message, and have failed miserably. Beyond the virtually unbridgeable theological chasm between Catholics and Protestants, Protestantism itself has dissolved into hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of squabbling denominations and sects, presided over, for the most part, by hucksters, charlatans, homophobes, misogynists, and crazy whack jobs.
It’s time to stop arguing over who gets to claim the mantle of Jesus (and Moses and Mohammed et. al. ). It’s a debate grounded entirely in a handful of texts of dubious provenance and historical veracity, and thus, in principle, can’t be won — and certainly won’t be won by political “progressives.” It’s all just a useless distraction from issues and problems that can and should be addressed without reference to god, gods, their sons and daughters, and the hopelessly confused systems of belief to which their followers blindly adhere.
“And I challenge anyone to show me a Bible verse taken properly in context that show Jesus advocating Christians to do harm to a non-believer.”
I’ll do you one better–how about Jesus working with devils to cause harm to innocents.
Mark 5: 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
This is also troubling:
Matthew 26:6-11 6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. 8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. 11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
(So basically the creator(or son of the creator) is saying you might as well anoint me with this-for you will always have poverty but not me–who is more precious.
**its always problematic when one takes a book of stories and tries to gleam a religious philosophy out of it.
Especially when that work was edited by a viciously corrupt Empire(the Romans).
Instead of worshiping Jesus, one should be worshiping truth or justice, but that’s too hard for many. Much better to prop up a celebrity god figure.
Quoting the gospels is like quoting hearsay. Clearly the message of christianity has been perverted by the exalting of the gospels. From what I can see if Jesus’ teachings, he himself was peaceful. It’s his followers who have been, and continue to be, such hypocrites.
baruch,i agree with the last line of your post..but not with the first line.it is not the exalting of the gospel that is at fault, it is the hypocrites who recite and quote them.,…………………………jesus leveled the playing field of all men, women,children rich, poor…long live,jesus…
Videos of this great song here:
http://lefti.blogspot.com/2007_12_01_archive.html#872959259631754571
You can go back to Jethro Tull’s 1969 “Christmas Song” for a similar sentiment—”Christmas spirit is not what you drink” and an apology for messing up “your thoughtless pleasures.” …Whether Jesus is being taken out of context regarding violence and other issues mentioned on other posts, it’s very unambiguous what he would think of modern ultra-commercialism.
christmastime proves to me that even i can be ’softened up’” conditioned and trained since birth….to participate in something so completely against my better self……christmastime,scares the p-geezus out of me….it is at once so pagan and yet so 1984……good tidings and generousity, peace on earth and good will toward men and women…would be better exercised, every and any,day of the year. …..
Jackson Says it in a great way… Like Woody did too.
They don’t Worship Jesus yet everyone is free to take the message anyway they want.
So If even if it scares some folks, I dig the Rebel Jesus too.
What a ridiculous series of posts. You people need to get lives. Your religion (or lack thereof) is your business, and my religion is my business. The End.
i am not an evangelical or a participant christian right……but personally, i am guilty of loving the rebel that is jesus….. only it is not at all the same jesus that geo. bush refers to..i dont personally know the same jesus,george bush said he knew,geoge’s jesus is some mirror-world warmongering hawkish chauvinistic jesus….some kind of anti-jesus.georges jesus doesnt even resemble the jesus i admire.well,dmia..what you say is very true…should we also not talk about any other world figure in history ????really dmia, according to you…we should not express or proclaim ,our admiration or displeasure for any person in world history….????because people on the world stage in history,are none of our business..
:-/ quote the whole passage, please, kelmer.
Matthew 26:11-13 “The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
The Gospel then discusses the betrayal of Judas. If you read the gospel of John, Judas was known to dip in the money bag for the poor for his own use.
John 12:4-6 “But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected. ‘Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.’ He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.”
take from it what you will.
Most intelligent people and well meaning people will agree that religion should be kept out of government and left in the churches and homes where it belongs, according to choice. Also the government has no business trying to install religious theories in school classes or selectively handing money to certain faith based organizations. It is ruination for both. However, it is tiresome and non-productive for so many of the comments to CD to be negative and insulting to the whole realm of Christian belief. There are of course many religious folk that bring shame to their faith, but there remain a host of people that are living examples of what they believe in, and it only debases the writer to constantly pretend all religion is nothing but fantasy. No one needs to believe in God or Jesus if they prefer not to, but they should leave others alone with their belief in whatever they get from the Bible, unless they are trying to force it on others.
“No one needs to believe in God or Jesus if they prefer not to, but they should leave others alone with their belief in whatever they get from the Bible, unless they are trying to force it on others.”
agreed. now the rest of xianity needs to be told that message. religion is fantasy, but i don’t have a problem with a belief in it, yet not a week goes by that some xian doesn’t try to push their “good news” onto me in one way or another. so ok we get constantly “witnessed” to, yet magically we are supposed to respect this belief system? uh, no.
Kernel,
Thank you. You said it much better than I did.
I do think it’s good that the Republican candidates in particular let loose with their statements of faith. Then we know exactly what kind of lunacy we’ll be dealing with if one of them is elected president (God forbid).
I agree Godlessrant, you should be left alone to you own beliefs. Although I honestly can’t see how anyone could read the gospels of the new testament and not see what Jesus stood for and what a new radical idea it was for the times. He was on the side of the poor, advocated forgiveness, non-violence and love, and yes, these ideas were bound to cause divisions amongst families and friends, hence the ’sword’. Have you ever actually read the new testament?
kernel,absolute agreement !!freedom and democracy does not exist without the separation of church and state !!! i am a militant constitutionalist !america must go back to upholding the separation of church and state,or democracy and freedom is already extinct……….
Regrettably, I don’t recall having heard that song before, but I do appreciate the words and the sentiment. The way Christmas is celebrated in these days is total crap! The most pervasive symbol, aside from that grotesque, unhealthy fat person(s) in a red suit shilling for consumerism and arbitrarily deciding who is good or bad, is the decorated Xmas tree in everyone’s living room. It generally takes between 10 and 15 years for a tree to grow to the size needed for such purpose and to cut it down and use it for a week, and then throw it in the trash, is obscene. Especially in these times of unprecedented deforestation.
OK Folks …Can we lighten up a bit? Jesus and Christmas ain’t gonna go away, ever.. but you are all free to wish it would and if you think that would bring you Peace and Happiness that is fine.
I like both views… and I enjoy the differences in Beliefs and all of Humanities Different Cultures
If it torments some that the mystery of Jesus ain’t gonna go away, here is another Idea that is catching on I just got in my Mailbox.
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
PS, My next door Neighbor just brought me over a Christmas dinner… am I lucky or what?
it is true..christmas is a pagan celebration,robotically performed by hypocrites,such as i ….the fatman in the red suit…the tree and so many disturbing morphs of an event are like infectious-fascist-germs,that landed on the shore of the new world.the truth is(bibically) we are told to celebrate our redemption and salvation,not the birth of jesus.., the death and the resurrection….
Here’s a stumper for the divisive nitwits… I’m a Catholic, who’s also a progressive. I doubt Mr. Nichols wrote this as a call to bash the Bible. In fact, in this day and age, the Bible is the most revolutionary text around… if you actually practice its teachings, as opposed to throwing around the label of being “Christian”.
i just noticed at the bottom of this article..i really like that word ‘royalism’(it is more laymen than illuminatti-easier understood)-good one,mr. nichols,i would like to read your book. much of the sentiment posted here seems to say.. jesus is= the cure for ‘royalism’
Talk about a quixotic struggle! If Jesus was around today his middle name would be long-shot.
To Bleve and other “Christian progressives”: As you read it, the Bible may be “the most revolutionary text around.” But in the hands of many of its most ardent and influential proponents, it’s an instrument of social, political, sexual, racial and economic repression. We can argue until monkeys fly out of my butt about whose interpretation of this putatively “revolutionary” text should be considered authoritative, but monkeys WILL fly out of my butt before the question is resolved definitively — because it CANNOT BE RESOLVED either logically, by further textual analysis, or empirically (unless, of course, the Good Lord Him/Her/Itself rends the space-time continuum to weigh in on the subject.)
And so rather than attempting to define and propose solutions for our many earthly problems, we are endlessly diverted by efforts to determine which ancient text of dubious provenance, and whose interpretation of that text, should be deemed authoritative in our efforts to define and solve these problems. It’s a huge, DIVISIVE, waste of time.
By the way — I’m happy to let people believe, in the privacy of their own minds, churches, synagogues, mosques, and covens, whatever nonsense makes them happy. But when it comes to matters of public policy, I want, to the greatest extent possible, facts, evidence, data, and arguments reasonably derived from them.
173:1.7 To the amazement of his apostles, standing near at hand, who refrained from participation in what so soon followed, Jesus stepped down from the teaching platform and, going over to the lad who was driving the cattle through the court, took from him his whip of cords and swiftly drove the animals from the temple. But that was not all; he strode majestically before the wondering gaze of the thousands assembled in the temple court to the farthest cattle pen and proceeded to open the gates of every stall and to drive out the imprisoned animals. By this time the assembled pilgrims were electrified, and with uproarious shouting they moved toward the bazaars and began to overturn the tables of the money-changers. In less than five minutes all commerce had been swept from the temple. By the time the near-by Roman guards had appeared on the scene, all was quiet, and the crowds had become orderly; Jesus, returning to the speaker’s stand, spoke to the multitude: “You have this day witnessed that which is written in the Scriptures: `My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you have made it a den of robbers.’”
173:1.8 But before he could utter other words, the great assembly broke out in hosannas of praise, and presently a throng of youths stepped out from the crowd to sing grateful hymns of appreciation that the profane and profiteering merchandisers had been ejected from the sacred temple. By this time certain of the priests had arrived on the scene, and one of them said to Jesus, “Do you not hear what the children of the Levites say?” And the Master replied, “Have you never read, `Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings has praise been perfected’?” And all the rest of that day while Jesus taught, guards set by the people stood watch at every archway, and they would not permit anyone to carry even an empty vessel across the temple courts.
173:1.9 When the chief priests and the scribes heard about these happenings, they were dumfounded. All the more they feared the Master, and all the more they determined to destroy him. But they were nonplused. They did not know how to accomplish his death, for they greatly feared the multitudes, who were now so outspoken in their approval of his overthrow of the profane profiteers. And all this day, a day of quiet and peace in the temple courts, the people heard Jesus’ teaching and literally hung on his words.
173:1.10 This surprising act of Jesus was beyond the comprehension of his apostles. They were so taken aback by this sudden and unexpected move of their Master that they remained throughout the whole episode huddled together near the speaker’s stand; they never lifted a hand to further this cleansing of the temple. If this spectacular event had occurred the day before, at the time of Jesus’ triumphal arrival at the temple at the termination of his tumultuous procession through the gates of the city, all the while loudly acclaimed by the multitude, they would have been ready for it, but coming as it did, they were wholly unprepared to participate.
173:1.11 This cleansing of the temple discloses the Master’s attitude toward commercializing the practices of religion as well as his detestation of all forms of unfairness and profiteering at the expense of the poor and the unlearned. This episode also demonstrates that Jesus did not look with approval upon the refusal to employ force to protect the majority of any given human group against the unfair and enslaving practices of unjust minorities who may be able to entrench themselves behind political, financial, or ecclesiastical power. Shrewd, wicked, and designing men are not to be permitted to organize themselves for the exploitation and oppression of those who, because of their idealism, are not disposed to resort to force for self-protection or for the furtherance of their laudable life projects.
CHRISTMAS OBSERVANCES 2007
A child was born and they named him Jesus; he was born from a virgin mother. Why? To show the world what could be done by mankind and had been done before. Don’t believe? Hey, truth is truth whether we believe or not. We are all sons and daughters of the one God but, I believe, that he was born this way to show that he was a son that had advanced to a level to where he could do this. Mother Mary was in on the deal too but maybe, just maybe, she was not quite as advanced as he.
When did he become the Christ? No Christ no Christmas just some, maybe, pagan holiday. My thoughts? He started as child of 12 when he started at the temple in Jerusalem when he said “he had to be about his fathers business”, then from around that time until he is 30 or so, I don’t know exactly when, he gets baptized by John, as a symbolic gesture and then starts his ministry. The time from 12 to 30 he traveled to, at least, India, Persia, Tibet and maybe some other places. There are rumors that he might have visited the Americas; nothing concrete. Most would say he went to strictly learn but I think that he went to prove to other faiths and peoples that he was this exalted soul out to do the One God’s business for all of humanity.
Words, ah, the words of the Christ used by so many, the good, the bad, the I have no clue’s and so many use the words without the deeds and so make the words like so many empty vessels. To show just one example: When he said that the poor would always be with us and some people and governments think that, hey, he said it so should it be. What is wrong with this picture? Should we not take this as a slap in the face of all humankind that we have no clue on what and how things are supposed to be? This is just a recent thought of mine and it bears repeating that words without deeds is emptiness.
We get many chances to do what’s right by enlightenment by light bulb or reincarnation and that is what he meant when he said we must be born again and when he said that only through him would we be good enough. That is the ultimate goal: to be like him and that is what he meant. Now I come to the finish of this Christmas observances. I’m not even close and all I want for Christmas is the courage and will to do what is right and just.
With love and best wishes for a Merry Christmas, Sandy and Tony 12/22/07
Two things:
1. For every Biblical quote that seems to indicate one thing, you can find another that seems to indicate the opposite. At least you can if you want to badly enough.
2. I like the song - even though I think it’s highly unlikely that Jesus ever actually existed, at least as portrayed in the Bible - but am wondering why Jackson Browne, obviously a progressive liberal, is endorsing the mildly rebellious Jonathan Edwards, instead of the truly rebellious Dennis Kucinich.
“all things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you must likewise do to them: this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.(Matthew 7:12)…
“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits (works) you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7: 15,16)
“…Men will expell you from the synagogue (church). In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered sacred service to God. But they will do these thing because they have not come to know either the Father or me(Jesus)” (John 16:2,3)
“…You who take pride in the Law, do you by your transgressing of the Law dishonor God? For “the name of God is blasphemed on account of you people among the Nations”, just as it is written.” (Romans 2:23,24)
If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give it to someone from whom you will not get it back. — Jesus
For all the people who want to look at this issue seriously, rather than just hurl invective at others, i suggest reading the following authors:
Marcus Borg
John Shelby Spong
John Dominic Crossan
These authors, especially Crossan, argue that Jesus was a revolutionary figure. Terry Eagleton has also written a very interesting introduction to the Gospels in the same manner. But it’s clear from even a cursory reading of the Gospels that Jesus was a friend of the oppressed, and frankly I think that’s commendable.
The phrase “the poor will always be with you” has been used out of context by some to argue that Jesus didn’t really care about the poor, but nearly everything else he said says the opposite. In the context, however, it is after Judas berates the woman for her extravagance, not out of real care for the poor but to suck up to Jesus. he’s the equivalent of when PETA berated Michael Moore for eating meat, rather than commending him for what he said about health care.
The Bible *is* complicated. Most religious texts are. But most philosophy is complicated and can be taken different ways. That doesn’t mean we have to throw the good out with the bad.
“By the way — I’m happy to let people believe, in the privacy of their own minds, churches, synagogues, mosques, and covens, whatever nonsense makes them happy. But when it comes to matters of public policy, I want, to the greatest extent possible, facts, evidence, data, and arguments reasonably derived from them.”
Facts, evidence and data can be manipulated, and there’s no way of quantifying reason or rationality. To suggest that anyone is free of passions or bias is ridiculous.
And I hate to harp on the example of Dr. King, but his religious faith was a major facet of his political action.
It seems somewhat ironic to read complaints about people addressing their religious beliefs after reading an article called, “On the Side of the Rebel Jesus.” Militant agnostics who cannot imagine people taking a stand in favor of theism or atheism would do well not to read such articles.
It is in deed easy to twist the Bible in ways that are coherent with your own viewpoint. It is also easy to twist verifiable facts in a manner that is consistent with your own viewpoint. Look at how many people believe that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq even though the Bush administration had to eventually admit they were there or how many people claim that the deaths of Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. demonstrate that nonviolent noncooperation is ineffective even though their movements did succeed in their stated goals. For the first 400 years of Christian history nearly all Christians were pacifists. It was an accidental byproduct of making an uncontradictory Christian philosophy that allowed Just War theory to enter into the church. This accident was caused by St. Augustine in the middle of defending pacifism, he made reference to the sorrow that one feels for killing a person during war. This one paragraph proved to subsequent theologians that St. Augustine was a Just War advocate and that Just War was allowable in Christendom. It is very dangerous when we make religion a battle over one truth, because it can frequently lead us down unintended and destructive paths.
The goal of the religious life for me is to submit myself to a conversation with the higher power that will give my life meaning and guide me to better application of the truth of my religion. Unfortunately, religion has too often been guiding others to what is deemed a better truth and silencing conversation through greater power so that life can have only one meaning. Essentially, we force our viewpoints on others and seek to silence those who may disagree so that we may have sole assurance of meaning. The conversation above demonstrates that theists, atheists, and agnostics are all capable of this infraction. Theists merely have a historic political advantage.
The song by Jackson Browne suggests to me the struggle that Jackson Browne was having with the church and society that moved too far in that direction. I hope it also suggests his continuing struggle with living a life of faith in the Christian tradition and hope that the rest of us can learn from his example.
Jesus clones appeared on earth again in the sixties with long hair and beard as poor men preaching peace and love, feeding the poor and curing people with magical herbs. They were promptly arrested, imprisoned, tortured and crucified. I think Jesus has given up on us.
”
**its always problematic when one takes a book of stories and tries to gleam a religious philosophy out of it.
Especially when that work was edited by a viciously corrupt Empire(the Romans)”
First of all, stories are probably the best way of teaching things to people. What did Plato do, other than tell stories? Second of all, if the Roman Empire edited the Bible, why leave in all the things that criticize them?
mustbefree December 26th, 2007 6:47 pm
Very nice!
One could almost wish well for those who don’t know any better(several of whom come quickly to mind) Those who act destructively - out of an ignorance of not actually knowing the meaning behind activity, or else they wouldn’t behave in such manner.
Laying siege to the earth, and the poor, and the helpless. One could actually forgive if one were more than human.
I’m with you, that’s an ideal worth striving for!
I’ve been reading John Shelby Spong, Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan for years. And I’ve also been reading Noam Chomsky, Michael Parenti, Howard Zinn and many others, including Mad Magazine. Seriously.
But the best reading of all is the Bible itself, where you can just open it up to any passage and read a few words then open it up to a completely different part and read a few more words then open it up to yet another section and read another sentence, then close the book and just sit there figuring that God is one really fart smeller otherwise you might understand what he’s talking about. Then take another gulp of beer and grab the remote…..
Peacenow, you are on the mark. However, these authors have written much. Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time is a must read by Marcus Borg. Jesus, A Revolutionary Biography by Dominic Crosson is a must read. Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by John Shelby Spong is a must read. And, another one that I just finished is Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman is a must read. If you take the word of the Bible literally or try to justify the arguments from those above you will struggle with these works. But, if you are open minded, liberal and really want to understand the teachings of Jesus, then you will truly be liberated. You will leave the institutional church for its bastardization of the teaching of Jesus, but you will experience an understanding you did not have before. We are Bible illiterate - yet there is information out there that will make us have a better understanding. And, if you want to walk the messages of Jesus look to a true Pagan for they understand!
Kelmer’s comment made me think. Huckabee cited the miracle of the bread and fish to explain his sudden bounce in the polls, but I think the chose the wrong miracle. It’s more like the herd of demon-infested swine trotting off the escarpment.
Crossan’s “Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography” is quite good but I like his big Jesus book better.
Jesus was also the first socialist, according to Hugo Chavez and many other liberation theologists. His example of fighting against the empire, not to replace it with a nationalist exclusionary state like the zealots wanted to do, but to trump the logic of power forever, is certainly one of the most revolutionary theological innovations, one that was quite quickly forgotten a mere few decades later.
But Jesus lives on in the resistance…
good post,ceti,i would have to agree with you on several of your observations………jesus was and is revolutionary…placing equal value on(both) men and on women……st.paul,it seems, did not completely take that lesson literally,but jesus certainly made it quite clear and literal….. the jesus of america’s evangelical right and of george bush,is a twisted perversion of the real and loving…jesus..
jamienewman December 26th, 2007 6:28 pm
That about sums-up the way I look at it. I get so tired of people quoting verses from the Bible to prove this or that as if it were some definitive text. The Bible is just a political statement of who was in power when they gathered the scripts two hundred years after Jesus died. Some scripts were tossed and some were kept depending on which person had the most power. I take this from “Everything your ever wanted to know about the Bible”. Taken with the fact that the Bible was written in a Middle Eastern language that is now dead and rewritten in Greek which was the language of scholars at the time. Then the book is interpreted differently by the Catholic church, a bevy of Protestants into a dozen languages - thats what you want to hang your hat on as your guiding light? I don’t think so.
Anyone know where I can get some Amanita muscaria? I’m looking for some new revelations.
me too,miftin..we definitely need a new script…this one sucks…
miften___your list of authors is very impressive. Apparently, they have not given you any shred of judgement, or you would not make your foul comment about the God that many people feel is a holy being. I suggest you take your beer and crawl back in the dark hole you came from.
barnburner___ It would be nice if you would enlighten us as to what you use as your guiding light, since you feel the Bible is nothing but a collection of messed up fables. Strange that it has endured through all of that time and many seem to be able to use it successfully to guide their lives. Agreed that there are many other writings that may be of help to people and it is a good idea to read them critically also for possible errors and misconceptions. You had better check out the background and motivation of whoever wrote the book about all you wanted to know about the Bible as it may have been written with a bias of some sort.
The point, IMHO, is that much of what Jesus’ teachings state are truths that exist in one form or another in most major religions because they are values we aspire to. The wrangling over which religion holds the essential truth is a waste of time because they are all, at the heart, trying to ask the big philosophical questions about why we’re here, what we’re doing and how we should live our lives. We have to look in ourselves, not out to a religion to grapple with those questions.
why be perturbed at all at some else’s lack of “belief?” Wouldn’t that call into doubt one’s own were one to have it?
Likewise, I’ve noticed there is a lot of book learning on this site, but without that book learning, where do you stand? Where are the personal observations?
I love the song, “The Rebel Jesus”, because it reflects a lot of my feelings about Christmas, Christ, and Christianity. Call me a heathen too.
The Bible and how it is interpreted reminds me of the movie “The Life of Brian” in which everyone takes everything Brian says in a different way, but not in the right way.
I’ve heard lately that Judas got a bum rap, according to the Coptics and some other “heretical” Christian groups. Part of the development of the Roman Catholic church was to weed out all the gospels that didn’t fit the official version of the truth of Christ. So who and what Christ really was (if he was) is mostly supposition, or faith.
So let your faith be in an ideal, to be strived for, not to be idolized.
Hey Kernal: The second paragraph was written from a working class perspective which I’m not ashamed to admit I was once a part of. Have you ever built a house or poured concrete? Or are you just enjoying living in a house built for you by men who would think that play-on-words was funny?
Apparently if a person wants to sound like a pompous ass this is the place to be. So if it’s just the same to you, I’ll keep hanging around and drinking cheap Mexican beer and burping.
I would also recommend a little book called:
“From Science to God: The Mystery of Consciousness and the Meaning of Light” by Peter Russell.
miften___I realize some folks seem to express themselves in rather crude ways, as I have farmed and run cattle for many years, so have heard all of the nifty expressions and have used a few. It usually works better to gauge your audience and write or speak accordingly. As to your remark that you can read a few words and then read a few other words that may not seem to agree, I suggest reading a longer passage to attempt to get the proper meaning. Everyone has certainly experienced the problem of inconsistancies in the Bible, but that is part of why it remains a challenge to master in some passages. Nevertheless, it is a book containing much wisdom that has helped many people with their lives, if they are sincere about the use of it. When it is used as a false cover for illegal or immoral activities, it not proper and people need to be on the lookout for that misuse.
godlessrant at 4:32 PM, I am in Germany now, so time, who cares. Although I am not a practicing person of any one religion, I do so damn tire of those that choose non-belief as their path, always going on a rant that daily they are accosted by Christians or other religious persons throwing their beliefs in there faces. I find this incredible! I have lived for quite awhile, I don’t see that, well just about ever. I do see, although, theists constantly saying these nast, cruel things as if to say “Check me, I do not believe in god, I am the truth, you are unicorns and fairy tales, I say what is true the rest of you, Harumph!” Faith is not something tangible, not necessarily religious, yet not to be demeaned.
Yes, the translations of the Bible have been many, Hebrew, Koine Greek, Aramaic, Syriac Peshetta, Ge’ez, Latin (Vetus Latina and Vulgate), many works have been translated over and over but If science I am sure you have nary a doubt.
God is Allah is Buddha is Ibrahim is G.O.D., good orderly direction. Humanity above all else is what we crave.
Merry damn Christmas, godlessrant! Threw in your face today, K? K.
“was jesus peaceful?” I would like to think so. Christians obviously are not. However, nothing in the bible is reliable. Everything is selected and translated with a slant. The gospels were picked over to provide backing for Christianity as the state religion of a militaristic Empire. Perhaps they were entirely pacifist before Constantine got his hands on them. I hope so. I prefer a Gandhi-type Christ to a Mithras style one, though we seem stuck with the god of the legions whether we like it or not.
The ‘gospels’ were largely written long after Jesus’ crucifixtion. And has been pointed out, they were culled and selected and chosen by church councils around about the time that Christianity became the state religion of the Roman empire. And then of course you’ve got questions of translation, as these folk weren’t exactly writing in English. Plus, one gets the impression that he talked in parables and allegories. Or at least that’s what seems to have been written and translated.
So taking anything literally seems a bit absurd.
The general message that seems to come through from Jesus is that he was teaching a message of love and peace.
PS … and that comes from someone who doesn’t call himself a Christian. But go out around various peace actions, and you can easily find some good people who seem to have taken that message of peace and love to heart and are trying to carry forward into this world. If its a few thoughts and words from some dude named Jesus that has come down through the centuries to inspire them to do that, then bless Jesus.
PPS … or maybe for Christmas, go find a homeless shelter and meet some of the people who spend their time and energy trying to help those in trouble. Another manifestation of peace and love in the spirit of what people think Jesus was trying to teach them.
Judging Christianity by those who use it to for war and power and wealth is missing a part of the picture. Its easy to see other parts of the picture if you just get out and go look for it.
For me, I like to see the name of Jesus in print, or used in a song, anytime, anyplace, anywhere, so I like the song.
It contains some valid criticisms of Christians, but then politely steers away from condemnation, with its own message of the “peaceful side” of atheism:
“For I’ve no wish to come between
This day and your enjoyment
In this life of hardship and of earthly toil
We have need for anything that frees us
So I bid you pleasure
And I bid you cheer…………”
A kind of addition to John Lennon’s “Imagine there is no….”
It also brings to light one of the fundemental precepts of the Christian faith and one of the main messages of Jesus:
Its easy to judge another man, and bring his faults into the daylight. Jackson Browne makes the same fundemental error that is rampant in the Christian world - that of righteous judgement of one man against another.
The true message of Jesus is a Way, that frees of from this trap, and proclaims mercy greater than justice.
Its “a way”. You cannot understand the message until you live it.
We can read the message of Jesus, understand it, see the truth in it, but unless we live “mercy is greater than justice” we will never “see it”. We will always be like blind men.
That is a small part of the true message of Jesus.
And in a small way this song, in a round about way, highlights a part of that, so I say, God Bless Jackson Browne!
that’s why they got that saying treat people as you would be treated.
Most of us are pretty fallible I think. There would seem to be a few exceptions to the rule it would seem, here and in the actual world.
But, if fallibility seems to be a constant in humanity, it would be fairly difficult to look at your neighbor and not be able to see that they also are afflicted with the same kind of essential problem.
Kernek, you seem to be rather dim if you actually think the second paragraph was meant seriously in any manner whatsoever, from beginning to end. But I do understand your point about judging your audience. I didn’t think there were many uptight prudes reading this stuff, so I may have been wrong. Actually that expression was supposed to read: pretty fart smeller
it won’t do any good telling someone else they don’t possess your superior understanding, and take pride in that idea. you could just as well be accused of being insecure in your own beliefs. or at the very least irreverent, of, maybe, life itself. . .at the very least
also, something about reverse discrimination fails on the same basis as that which it is discriminating against. the body political we currently have in this country blunders and (to me) fails hopelessly along those lines. either for or against them.
though I would agree somewhat in part with the spirit. discussion, collaboration, seems to be the value of the rhetoric here, take it for what you will, no matter what your walk of life.
“But if any one of us should interfere
In the business of why they are poor
They get the same as the rebel Jesus”
Jackson Browne got it right. But, how sad that he is quoted by John Nichols, the corporate sycophant who advocates open borders, union busting and neo-slavery.
If anyone dares to interfere with the business of why Americans are poor “they get the same as the rebel Jesus” — crucified — by John Nichols.
“When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”
–Dom Helder Camara
miftin____ I guess as you say, I am just a dim farmer prude, but I well remember the day a kid saying any of these smutty expressions that are used regularly by some CD posters would have a hot seat and maybe a mouth soaped out. I would expect to hear some of that when you hit your thumb with a hammer, but it is crude and disgusting when used in the same sentence or thought as God or any other religious figure. Before the sixties rebellion, people prided themselves on the proper use of the language, but now we are progressing into the gutter. It seems strange that educated people need to emphasize their posts with reference to bodily excrement, when a good dictionary could furnish a decent expression.
Easy summation of Christ’s teachings: “Love your brother as yourself”
Isn’t that the summation of most of the enduring instruction?
… yes, and from millennium prior to Christ, as well …
From the AP, a true tale of “revolutionary” Christianity:
Seven people were injured on Thursday when Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests came to blows in a dispute over how to clean the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.
Following the Christmas celebrations, Greek Orthodox priests set up ladders to clean the walls and ceilings of their part of the church, which is built over the site where Jesus Christ is believed to have been born.
But the ladders encroached on space controlled by Armenian priests, according to photographers who said angry words ensued and blows quickly followed.
For a quarter of an hour bearded and robed priests laid into each other with fists, brooms and iron rods while the photographers who had come to take pictures of the annual cleaning ceremony recorded the whole event.
A dozen unarmed Palestinian policemen were sent to try to separate the priests, but two of them were also injured in the unholy melee.
“As usual the cleaning of the church afer Christmas is a cause of problems,” Bethlehem Mayor Victor Batarseh told AFP, adding that he has offered to help ease tensions.
“For the two years that I have been here everything went more or less calmly,” he said. “It’s all finished now.”
The Church of the Nativity, like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem’s Old City, is shared by various branches of Christianity, each of which controls and jealously guards a part of the holy site.
The Church of the Nativity is built on the site where Christians believe Jesus was born in a stable more than 2,000 years ago after Mary and Joseph were turned away by an inn.
Copyright AFP 2007, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium
Interesting that those who writhe and scream when the Bible is quoted are all attracted to the article about “the rebel Jesus”. Same people who apparently have random Christian conversion groups following them around… doing their darndest to rain on the agnostic parade we should all be following… that is if we’re truly enlightened.
I mean its obvious that the billions of people who follow monotheistic religions around the world have been hoodwinked. Thank goodness for those kind few who spread the light of reason to us backward, superstitious folk.
Look, we all know that various groups try to hijack the label of certain faiths for their political agendas… the majority of Americans actually don’t fit into the divisive categories that the mainstream media as well as self-proclaimed “true progressives” put them. Its important to separate the faith from the institution.
See Kernel, that’s just what I’ve come to love and admire about political progressives.
They are all clean as the driven snow and if you ever make a little mistake or exercise some bad judgement in their presence, they’ll immediately drive you off to Siberia to rot in a gulag for the rest of your life. No second chances with these tolerant progressives. No siree. A person could devote 25 years of life to developing an accurate world view and one stupid slip up from deep in the consciousness of your long-distance past and you’ll find yourself answering to some little snip who probably thinks she’s the very picture of tolerance. Sometimes I just have to think that “compassionate politics” is a fraud and is full of hypocrites just like the rest of it. It’s one thing to hold reasoned opinions about the nature of compassion and it’s quite another thing to jump down somebody’s throat the first chance you get.
Jackson has it right. Jesus was a human being, rebellious like alot of us, who wanted to change the world. His name has been blasphemed horribly by many, many people, especially by the criminals in our government. It’s obvious that they don’t really believe Jesus is God, because if they did, they’d be going straight to Hell for all eternity!
I love the song. It illuminates the paradox that is Christmas in the modern world.
Please
Listen to Live- who say on their first CD - “what a man was 2000 years ago means nothing at all to me today”.
Or Tool
Or Tori Amos
or Depeche Mode
Or…
“Merry damn Christmas, godlessrant! Threw in your face today, K? K.”
threw in your face today? huh, whatever.
“I do see, although, theists constantly saying these nast, cruel things as if to say “Check me, I do not believe in god, I am the truth, you are unicorns and fairy tales, I say what is true the rest of you, Harumph!””
i suppose you meant atheists” instead of “theists”. aw us evil non-believers picking on the “Faith” of peace. if you don’t see that xians constantly push their doctrines and dogmas onto non-believers, then you must be living in a cave. that’s all i have to say