Dems Hold All the Cards on Iraq, So Why Are They Folding?

That one per cent control the US politicians, because as the Gipper would say, "They bought them fair and square."

Eisenhower warned us: WAR, WAR and more WAR.

The "war" industry is one of the few we have left in this country. The new Chrysler CEO is talking about a 13,000 employee layoff and the closing of a plant in Delaware. Ford is talking about more layoffs; the financial sector is laying off people by the thousands every day.....and there's no end in sight.

Have you looked at the job market recenty? Most of the hiring is in the health care sector followed by high tech and engineering. And if you read the job descriptions in health care; if you're not a Nurse, MD, PT, or high level manager, you will find the rest of the jobs only require a high school diploma and perhaps a single course in an area such as phlebotomy, EKGs, etc.. Simply stated, they don't want people who have college degrees because they'll have to pay them more than someone with a high school diploma.

The top 1 percent (multi-billionaires) own 90 percent of the wealth in this country because they control our politicians. Does anyone really think the Democrats are going to bite the hand that feeds them?

Somebody is older than I am. Annie, happy 700 birthday, with that 70th decade. Hell, I'm not a day over 200. "Sure" I might "voted for Abraham Lincoln for congressman back before the Mexican War, but I just don't wanna hear about somebody saying I was around when Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence.

Hey Ken, ...we are doing something 'in common'. To say we are common is to say that someone else might be of the nobility. No titles of nobility may apply to anyone in this country. The only form of address should be Mr./Mrs./Ms.. Having a pile of dough, no matter how one gets it, doesn't make one superior to anyone else except in spending power. Peace out.

Oh no, not another 'spineless Democrats' article. Democrats have a lot of spine, Arianna, you're the spineless one, for not writing the truth: Democrats have a long history of enabling fascism while pretending to be against it.

At least with Republicans we know where we stand. Democrats have cooperated with Bush for 7 years now. They had at least 40 Senators from 2000 to now, and they could have blocked EVERY ONE of Bush's crimes. But they chose to go along with them.

Democrats have no reason for existing. They aren't for labor, they aren't for peace and they aren't for social justice.

I don't know what's worse, spineless journalists like Huffington or the idiots who keep voting Democratic. I'm praying for a Bloomberg or a Nader run, at least if we get another Republican in the White House, we'll know who the enemy is.

It is chilling what government ineptitude and racism on a governmental level can do. One only had to witness government mismanagment of the whole hurricane Katrina affair to understand what happens when you have small government. Not only was there nonon-evacuation plan but there was wholesale militaristic treatment of the african-american victims of hurricane Katrina. This is a president who talks of more democracy and freedom but yet we see less and less of it. The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

You gotta know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run

They think they're counting ballots
While they're sittin' at the DNC
But what their countin' isn't showin'
Is the ass-kickin' that's a-gonna come.

Twang! Twang!

Aloha from Hawaii :
Tractorguy's suggestion for meaningful "opposition" by the Democrat majority deserved serious comment and discussion in this forum. From my perspective as an "observer" I see no reason why such a strategy would not effectively turn the tables on war apologists of all political persuasions (from Lieberman to the "Decider in Chief" himself.) Coupling war funding appropriations with equitable taxation reform would force rich war supporters to put their wallets where their rhetoric is.

Is there anyone left anywhere, outside the DLC, who thinks the Dems are doing a bang-up job, really finally representing We the Abandoned People, and will get record numbers to the polls next year for a thorough thrashing of the Republicans? Anyone? Not in here, or much anywhere else. We all know they're worthless and useless, except to their true constituency--the corporations and bankers who keep their motors running. So why obsess for another year over what Hillary or Obama says, parsing their every word and motive. They're for the war, they won't get us out, they'll extend the Bush agenda because it's also theirs, and the likes of us will be be grumbling over it all, right into our respective graves. Vote third party candidates or don't vote. It's about all we can do, since we're clearly incapable of meaningfully organizing and actually overthrowing this miserable system, both politically and its economic dynamo, capitalism. We're stuck with crap and will remain so stuck for probably another generation or two. But stop encouraging either wing of the Big Business Party by voting for either of their frontmen. To hell with them.

Awaken, that was a great line! "Better to waste my vote than waste my time"

If only people realized that we can get what we want IF we vote for it. And we will always get what we don't want as long as we keep voting for it. And the lesser of two evils is getting closer and closer to being all the same evil.

Except for the fact that they all want to get re-elected, I think it's a mistake to treat the Democrats as a monolithic entitity. It's hard to imagine, for example, two people farther apart on Iraq than Hillary and Kucinich.

I'd say it's also a mistake to assume that anyone is extorting or bribing them.

I think Arianna's explanation is best: the Dems have individually calculated that the best way to get re-elected is to play it cautious: Say things that are popular with your constituents, but don't make any waves, don't stick your neck out. Merely watch and wait for the Republican opposition to self destruct.

In other words, don't worry about the innocent Iraqis who are dying or fleeing their homes. Don't worry about the US servicemen who are giving their lives for a useless cause. Don't worry about the $1-2T debt your country is building up to pursue the worthless cause. Don't worry about the war crimes being committed or alienating the entire Muslim world. See, as long as you can get re-elected, as a Democratic congressman, you have nothing to worry about.

seriousprofessor September 7th, 2007 10:30 pm

Oh, and COMarc, they are also spineless, weak, timid, and so on..

-------

Not really. You are quite mistaken if you think that they are spineless, weak and timid. Dems are really doing what their constituents are asking them to do. Your problem is that you think that you and I are their constituents. Wrong!! Their constituents are: big money, Israel and military industrial complex.etc.

I beleive their constituents are rather happy with the Dems.

Time for a new table. Of course the Dems are part of the problem. So are we all until the focus shifts to creating a real alternative to this dying juggernaut of an empire. Let's leave the anger and frustration in the dust and begin the creative work of societal and governmental overhaul. There are other models of functional democracy. I lived in Holland for 3 years, and saw a general election year in which there were 26 political parties for whom you could vote. The whole left-right spectrum, but many many more flavors and colors. Good chance of finding an accurate reflection of your personal values and views. Parliament then has to sort it out, building concensus and making alliances (doing the people's work!) Maybe there's a better system yet to be developed. Ours is terminal.

Why are Democrats folding? Because they're led by conservatives.

My guess is that about 75% of all the politicians in Washington are very much in favor of staying in Iraq for a long time, if not forever. That means that about 50% of those who put on a show of getting us out of Iraq are just putting on a show. There would have to be at least a 25% turnover in the House of Representatives in the 2008 election and almost every Senator running for re-election in 2008 would have to be replaced by a peace candidate to bring all the troops home.

Chicken, chicken hawk: someone who is pro constant wars of aggression, but pretends not to be.

SERIOUS PROFESSOR says, "The Democrats fundamentally believe what the Republicans believe. It's that simple. Opposition is "off the table," to use a recent Democratic idiom." Yep. You nailed it!

Pundit states that the Dems lack the cojones to stop the war. It is much easier to start a war, continue it through fear mongering and politicking than it is to stop one. So with chicken hawks in power, and no personal vested interest in the wars end (no draft or fear that their own with contribute or be killed), anyone can be the supreme leader of a game with no end in sight. No cajones needed here, as a matter of fact it is a prerequisite that the leader(s) are sans cajones.

Until we get rid of the lobbyists, we will never have a true bipartisan debate. The unfortunate reality is that the lobbyists are here to stay and the two party system is allowed to remain because it is run through the corporate filter first.

I agree with Arianna: it is truly inexplicable that the Democratic leaders refuse to take the stand they were clearly elected to take. Voters may need to target many of these Democratic gutless wonders when they are up for re-election.

Mr. Milquetoast goes to Washington. Democratic success story.

Having all the cards is nothing. Bush is the better bluffer.

Dems have the cards but the cojones belong to the Iraqi militias, suicide bombers,kidnappers, gangsters, IED makers and anyone else who wants into the game.This is checks and balances 21st century style. Armed force vs diffuse resistance. Fuggetabout that quaint document; The Constitution- Force Rules!

People like Arianna may be part of the problem. Were she sincere the headline to her article would read:

TIME TO VOTE FOR A THIRD PARTY

No one with any sense can now believe the Democrats are different. It's not that some of them don't want to be non-Republicans. They are too brainwashed, that's all. Or corrupted beyond hope. Either way they are NOT an "opposition party".

I'm voting Green or something else -- yes, "wasting" my vote to make a point. And I feel good about it. Better than wasting my time to pretend I'm going to reform or educate robots.

If Bush doesn`t invade or bomb Iran to hold his power, then notice he is making noises about bringing home 3500 soldiers to show how well it is all proceeding. Want to bet we will see a little more coverage of those returnees than we have of the dead and wounded? There is always another card to play to get us to go along with his sinister desires.

The GOPocrats are all have the same paymasters. It is NOT in their interest to end the war - any war.

The Salazar Proposal is back! Hurrah! Wonderful! We're saved! And...

You can read about the original 76 flying pigs here.

The Democrats fundamentally believe what the Republicans believe. It's that simple. Opposition is "off the table," to use a recent Democratic idiom.

Oh, and COMarc, they are also spineless, weak, timid, and so on. One does not negate the other.

COMarc-

"Their so-called withdrawal plans have loopholes in them so big you can drive an occupying army through them."

I am still laughing. Because its so true.

Because their constituents are no different than those of the republican Party: big money, military industrial complex, Israel. They are doing exactly what their constituents are asking them to do.

BILL from Saginaw

You're very kind, and I appreciate it.

I'm approaching the end of my 70th decade in a couple of years, and I really fear this will go on and on and on with what America was pretty smashed. Not the legacy I want to leave my children and grandchildren.

There are forces at work that can't be dealt with as they've been dealt with in the past, simply because they're so enormous. There's a madman driving the bus, and his keepers (Congress) seem to think it's okay to let him go anywhere he wants, ruining the bus in the wild ride, because they believe they'll be driving the bus in a couple of years. To continue the analogy, they could have jumped him, not given him any more gas money, and kicked him off the bus. But they didn't.

I no longer trust most of those who want to drive it!

I'll tell you why they're folding. It's thanks to the hard work of Rahm Emanuel stacking the deck with Blue Dogs - mainly Republicans changing their registration to run for office as Democrats while Emanuel was destroying efforts of antiwar candidates to run against them in primaries. Emanuel was appointed by no other than Nancy Pelosi to keep the Democratic Party from being overrun by antiwar candidates. He did a good job, except for losing a lot of seats to Republicans because the voters had no real choice. DCCC policy is to stay out of primaries, but that's been set aside. Ralph Nader is right. This party is rotten to the core. Check out the following link.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607J.shtml

Now I'm wondering how Dennis can stay in this viciously corrupt party. Every progressive Democrat should get out, be a Green, an Independent, whatever. I wish the general public could hear this story. And unions go along, because they follow the candidate with the party money. Idiots.

And now Nancy Pelosi is whining that she is trying to end the occupation but just can't control the Democrats. What a filthy liar.

Commander in Chief lands on USS Lincoln

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/

BILL FROM SAGINAW: Good analysis as per CIA $.
ANNEY: Sweetheart, it all seems lost, but remember, nature is our timeless teacher and waves seem to roll BACKWARDS; but this is a process that enables the wave (think kinetic energy of LOTS of progressive people) to eventually move forward. Things are never static, this IS the darkest hour before the next dawn. LIGHT on!

Why are the Democrats folding? AIPAC owns all of them, both Republican and Democrat.

The message which ought to be conveyed to Democrat Party leaders is that if they are too incompetent, too ineffective, too lazy, too cozy with the Prez or just too cowardly to halt the War, then they should get out of the way or expect to be shoved out.

These wrongheaded idiots got us into the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place. Now they can't seem to get us out.

Why Are They Folding?

I'm sure they and their families have been threatened with death...works every time.

Bush and co is really just an organized crime family hiding behind the crucifix.

From the article:
"The Democrats' thinking on this is unfathomable — it makes no sense logically, morally or politically. They have the majority of the American people wanting to bring this war to an end..."

As if that matters. What matters is what the majority of the richest Americans want. And that, by the way, is how the Democrats could stop this war if they were serious about doing so. They could give Bush every supplemental war dollar he asks for, but couple it to the requirement that every such dollar be paid for in the same fiscal year by rollbacks in the tax breaks for the very rich, reinstatement of inheritance taxes on multimillion dollar estates, and increases in capital gains taxes. That way the Dems could not be accused of not supporting the troops, or of being soft on terror, or of fiscal irresponsibility. And if the richest Americans felt the pain of this war in their wallets, I expect the movement to end the war would take on a vigorous new dimension with considerable effect.

This would be fair, it would be effective, and it would be popular, but it would also minimally impinge upon the obscene luxury of the Democrats' richest patrons, so I expect the odds of this happening are something negligibly distinct from nil. Politically, it is far easier to impose the war burden of death and disability on many thousands of poorer American families, and pass the bill on to children yet unborn, than it is to ask the richest to struggle by on slightly smaller yachts for a while.

you know what i mean.......saplings that are ready to and can grow into something better....

Peace,
Ken Hausle

i basically agree with what blessthebeasts says, and for you helix......

long time no read......

in my yard are many saplings.....

Peace,
Ken Hausle

Every one of these politicians and pundits who claim "progress is being made" should be dropped in the middle of Baghdad with no armor, no protection, no nothing. Then see what they have to say, including Miss Katie Couric. It's been incredible to watch this "surge" play out although oh so predictable.

dutch1949,

You must not live around Washington DC. What you know has nothing to do with the decisions made here. It's your political skin and who your allies are that matter. Principle and politics don't mix because, by the time you have done what you have to do to get elected to an office at that level, you've sacrificed every principle you ever had. The bottom line is that Americans are greedy and self-centered. And the higher you go, the greedier and more self-centered are the people you deal with.

Principles, on the other hand, are strongly socially based. Why is honesty a virtue? Because societies function better when people know where they stand and can rely on the committments made by others. But, of course, greed feeds on dishonesty, even though it degrades society. So if you're in it for yourself and your party and society be damned... so what? You'll say what you think will get you the furthest ahead, and the devil take the hindmost.

The problem we are having with congress has nothing to do with what they know and what we don't know about national security and the war on terror. The problem arises because our "public service" professionals -- AKA politicians -- simply don't share our values. We want what's good for America. They want a 7000 acre ranch in Wyoming to go with their other 6 properties. And they'll get a heck of a lot further by kow-towing to Bush and shmoozing corporations than they will by giving a hoot about what's good for a bunch of dupes back in Haight-Ashbury.

Which is not to say that they don't care what you think. The gig is up the moment their sincerity becomes suspect, and so putting out the right image is paramount. But that's all it is. In essence, you're being played.

What we're really seeing is entrenched corruption. The Dems won't face down Bush because it's a go-along-to-get-along system. They are safely ensconced in office as long as they don't rock the boat. And as long as they're in office, they get to cream off a $2.7 trillion gravy train, not to mention the perqs of office. It's a really sweet deal, and all one has to do to hang on to it is keep one's acting skills up to par and don't provoke the GOP smear machine.

Why does Pelosi see to it that impeachment is off the table? Because you go along to get along. She's from a solidly Democratic district, so as long as the GOP swiftboat set sees her as less of a threat than rabble-rousers like Cindy Sheehan, Pelosi's in! Pelosi knows how the game is played, and the GOP knows she can be counted on. Everyone's happy. At least everyone that counts, which doesn't include you and me.

And now here's the kicker. Everyone in the peanut gallery wants us out of Iraq. The likely outcome of that will be that Iraq devolves into three autonomous states. What happens to the oil under these circumstances? And, more importantly, to whom will the oil profits accrue? Certainly not to the US. In fact, Iraqi oil production could come to a virtual halt, with devastating consequences for the movers and shakers -- AKA Pelosi & Co. Of course, it would be nowhere near as devastating as for a lot of the rest of us, but that's really of no consequence.

So where does that leave us? It leaves us with impeachment off the table, one blank check after another with your kids' names on them handed over to BushCo., and voice recognition software processing your phone calls.

These people must be laughing their butts off after every speech. To think that the saps actually fall for that same old crap! Every time!

Life is good once you've made the big time.

KaneJeeves & limric et al. -

The recent fine history of the CIA "Legacy of Ashes", as well as several earlier works describing the post-WW II rise of the national intelligence component of the military-industrial complex, are in general agreement on a few broad points.

Since its inception in the late 40's, the CIA has consistently done an extremely poor job of providing accurate, timely intelligence analysis to civilian policy makers, and an equally poor job of conducting covert operations (black ops).

For instance, the agency estimated the Soviet Union wouldn't be able to develop a workable atomic bomb for four years. Stalin had a successful test four weeks later. The CIA was totally surprized by the Red Chinese intervention into the Korean War, costing the lives of thousands of US soldiers. Think Bay of Pigs. Think blow back from propping up the Shah in Iran. Think arming the mujidaheen to kill Russians in Afghanistan. Think how the Iraqis were gonna be dancing in the streets.

During its history, the CIA in turn has a mixed record when it comes to the use of high tech surveillance. Certainly the agency and the NSA developed incredibly sophisticated devices, such as the U-2 and Blackbird planes, and spy satellites. Think Francis Gary Powers. Mixed bag.

One thing and one thing only has the CIA consistently excelled at: these guys are real pros when it comes to bribing foreign governmental officials and using cash to influence the course of political events abroad. Now and then of course an asset goes bad (think Noreiga). But most of the time, when the CIA gets a source on its payroll, the snitch stays bought and the information has the proverbial "high intelligence value."

Maybe Rove has some warrantless wiretap goodies on the Democratic leadership. More likely, I think, is that the CIA has extended the cash-for-cooperation tactics they developed overseas into the domestic political sphere during the last several years.

Now it very well may be that the laundered campaign donations were accepted without knowledge that those donations were CIA funds. Tough. The politico is still vulnerable to subtle blackmail merely by having accepted the funds.

Thats how its worked overseas for over fifty years. Maybe those are the chickens that have finally come home to roost.

Bill from Saginaw

The Dems are "folding" (as if they hadn't folded already) because, not only is that what their corporate string pullers pay them to do, but because they do not want to be the next Larry Craig.

The dots nobody is connecting: when a distraction is needed and one with blood isn't available, toss 'em a Foley, or Craig - nothing distracts the MSM better and faster than a classic "pervert" scandal. Cheneybush were surely behind the sudden headlines about a months-old story timed to deflect from the slew of Iraq's-fu*ked reports as the Loonitary Decider pulls a two-hour PR stunt before fleeing to the furthest point on the planet he could.

It's like they put a gun to Craig's head and said to the Dems: keep it up and this is what'll happen... KABANG! And the Dems responded: "Did you say you need $200 billion more?"

The only Democrat I'll vote for is Dennis Kuchinich in 2008, even if I have to write him in. I won't vote for any other Democrat, state or local. The Democratic party has become the roll-over party and it no longer represents me OR the majority of Americans who put them in power.

Now I think most are as despicable as Bush, while a year ago I pinned all my hopes for America on them. I truly grieve for what has been lost, a way of life, values, and a country to be proud of. It is not some amorphous vague thing that I feel, but it's very personal and goes deep. Other than its people and some beautiful places, I don't love America anymore, not for its decency, for the hope it once offered to everyone, a government that was the very best for its citizens, I thought -- those principles don't exist anymore.

I don't see the difference between Democrat and Republican anymore.
Maybe I'm just going blind or I can't see the real picture.
It looks like they have melted together somehow.

The Dems are paid off.No campaign reforms,meaningful financing reforms, let alone listening to the voters who clearly told them to bring the troops home NOW.The only answer is to dethrone Pelosi, Reid, and the others who feather their nest and ignore us.They are all corporate drones.We need to carefully examine all candidates for Congress, and only vote for those who will sign a letter of intent to represent us, not the corporations.Mendicino County Ca.has recinded corporate personhood, more counties, States need to do this.Only when the corporations are once again controlled by the people will the people regain control of their government.

ezeflyer - awesome name....

...why even try to break the "dems" up...."conservative", "red dog", "black hog", "hopping frog", ...whatever....

we are supposed to have "parties", but then we are told there are only "two"that you can go to. Why just 2? There is no reason why there can't be and ought to be more that just two parties!!!!!!

Peace,
Ken Hausle

Spike - oh contrar (or however it is spelled)

we R common. We R all here aren't we? Together. Commonly. Talking. So to Speak. We are common.....

Peace,
Ken Hausle

CONSERVATIVE DLC Dems support this OCCUPATION for the OLIGARCHY.

Dichterfruend. We are not 'common'. One person one vote. No amount of money or political influence can confer "nobility" on anyone.
It would appear that having a pile of money has corrupted most of the folks in Washington.

Anyhow, why would anyone want to have whatever "the goods R" on anyone else? WHY? ......i can't think of any good reason.....

Seems like a ridiculous waste of time and when you waste time you are a fool...

Well KaneJeeves tell me - what does "having the goods" mean?

Ken Hausle - of course someone can have the goods. What do you think political operatives do for a living? They drum up dirt on their opponents.

And you're naive if you think Rove is gone.

or if you think you are on the top and that it can't crash down upon you, well obviously it could simply fall away from you and then what would you have: no support. Nothing holding you up.

Who would want that?

Peace,
Ken Hausle

"I believe Congressmen and women are privy to a bit more info than we common folk"

I believe the reverse: they know less than the common folk.

come on KaneJeeves can anyone ever really have the "goods" on anyone else. I don't think so. In fact, i hope i'm being bugged RIGHT now becuase i admit i've been talking to myself and screaming things and it wouldn't bother me a bit if others are listening.

Rove is gone, plus as a nation we have the dirt on rove, on cheney, on nancy and her spouse, on bush, on condaleeza, on laura, on donnie boy, on the whole lot of em. As a nation, we can see the suffering of innocence that continues. So as a nation, the time to choose is upon us.

The choice seems obvious to me. One step at a time from the ground up as well as with any help offerered from above as the old pyramid(s) come crashing down. I'd be jumping off if i was one of the ones high up in the scheme before it comes crashing down on me.

Ken Hausle

Here is yet another opinion. The Dems aren't "folding," rather may I suggest, they know more than we common folk. While they try to appease the far left with words of impeachment, withdrawl, and indictments, secretly they know how much is at stake. The Dems perceive that they will gain the Oval Office with a continued dialogue about Iraq. Should a victory be seen in Iraq, we will again have a Republican in the Oval Office. The Dems have thrown everything at opposing the war they once supported. In another era, America would not have allowed it. America had many intelligence blunders pre Pearl Harbor just like pre 9/11. For me, I don't know whether it was deliberate or not. Pre Pearl Harbor, America was in isolationist mode, but Pearl Harbor got America involved in WW2 with a "terrible resolve." Post 9/11 there is no "terrible resolve," just a lot of flip flopping and backstabbing for political gain.
I believe Congressmen and women are privy to a bit more info than we common folk. They will continue to allow wiretapping because they know the threat.

Dichterfreund - i so agree with that sentiment....yes indeed and in mind...

Peace,
Ken Hausle

Why don't these people forget about the 60 votes
needed to end the war and simply talk about the
60 votes the other side needs to fund the war?

I think we're over-analyzing the situation. limric's right, Rove has the goods on these folks, and probably many many others. We've seen plenty of unexplainable about-faces and unbelievable moves to know that something else besides "policy" and "strategy" are at work. Remember, Rove's the guy that dug thru opponents garbage!

Only war spending sustains the US economy. Pull the plug on the weapons & war service industry, and the bubble of neoliberalism/democratic capitalism would pop.

PS ... take note of the lack of any action that the Dems have taken on the topic of campaign finance reform since taking control of Congress. If you want campaign finance reform, real limits, or public (honest) funding of campaigns, then that's another reason to vote for someone other than a Dem or Rethug in 2008.

The Dems are 'folding' on Iraq because they've always supported this war and they continue to support this war. All this talk about how they'd come back and do something in September was just complete BS to try to get the anti-war movement off their backs for a few months. They knew dang well that when September came around they'd go ahead and ok Bush all the money he wanted to continue the war until 20009.

The Dems aren't 'folding'. The Dems aren't 'spineless'. They aren't afraid of attack ads. Face facts. The Dems have supported this war from the beginning. They voted to authorize it. They've voted to fund it year after year. How on earth can anyone continue to spin this BS that they Dems are really opposed to the war but just too cowardly to oppose it.

The President is a lame duck with support in the 20% range pushing a policy that's just as unpopular. If the Dems wanted to oppose this war, it would be the 'slam-dunk' to end all slam-dunks. If I was running a Dem congressional campaign in 2008, I'd be incredibly overjoyed if the Republicans wanted to make Iraq an issue. Having the Republican candidate vigorously support a policy opposed by 70 to 80% of the electorate should be candy from heaven for a Dem campaign.

Face it, the Dems support this war. Anytime they try to act like they oppose the war, they are lying to you. They've continually voted to start and continue this war and they continually dodge and dance and refuse to take any action that might end it or even curtail it a little bit.

And if you listen closely to what Obama and Hillary are saying, the war won't end when they take office. Their so-called withdrawal plans have loopholes in them so big you can drive an occupying army through them. They both insist they'll keep troops in Iraq to fight Al-Qaida and other terrorists, and to train the Iraqis. In other words, basically what the troops are doing today according to the Pentagon. And even their withdrawals are really just "redeployments" to other states in the region.

Face facts. The Dems support this war. If you want politicians that oppose the war and will stop it, then vote for someone besides the Dems or Rethugs in the next election.

Huffington writes "The Democrats' thinking on this is unfathomable — it makes no sense logically, morally or politically."
Apparently, Huffington and most of the other darlings of the progressive punditry will never learn that the Democrats in Congress are centrists, not leftists.
Whether the issue is war or helping the poor, expecting them to use leftist decision-making to solve problems is what "makes no sense logically, morally or politically."

Using campaign spending limits to solve America's problems is the only way to solve America's problems enough!

Poor Democrats. Bet they wish they were Republicans. Even when they are wrong the Republicans stand behind their mythology.
The Democrats uphold the Republicans mythology too--they actually triangulated the Left away during the Clinton years. Clinton was lazy and lacked substance. He was into devising plans to win on strategy and slickness, but was willing to lose the farm because he sacrificed values--meaning and purpose to beat the Right on it's own issues--at it's own game, that they worked hard at for years to promote as the conventionally accepted point of view.
The farm is lost and the Democratic party has become the Clintons own personal property, without a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of anymore. They are bereft of meaning and purpose. they were given the task of opposing the Bush disaster and they failed miserably. What more do they have to run on?

Does anyone honestly believe that the warrantless wiretaps were to be used to root out terrorists? Dollars to doughnuts says the Democrats are being blackmailed.
Rove, his extortion plans finished and now implemented, took his leave and pronounced this was something George and Dick could handle themselves.

& so i say let the winding road of PEACE begin....

peace
for
those
who
have
been
piercied
it can't but help to go out a different way...

The important thing: a vote on somebody who is unlikely to win IS NOT a wasted vote. The vote somebody bad, likely to win or not, IS a wasted vote. The more votes indepedents get, the more the Demopublicans will listen to what those independents are saying.

hey now i am going to say something just to piss some off because i'm tired of this place anyhow........

whatever it was it doesn't matter....

i will be around...just like a rebel farmer...

Peace,
Ken H

hey grady boy....

but u should no.....

heres the thing..........

it don't matter...die now or die later.....

you CCCCCCCCCCC what i'm saying.......................
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let me explain then...chose to not abide fear....fear is nothing..
nothing in....
......nothing out.....
nothing is nothing....
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Bill, Helix:

I'm reminded of a classic quote from the movie "Serpico". Two crooked cops are discussing the new guy and derisively state, "You can't trust a cop who doesn't take money."

One almost wonders if the folks in D.C. have a sort of litmus test or radar that they apply toward newcomers. They can detect a particular personality trait, manner of speech, etc. that illustrates an invertebrate aspect to their personality. Such people are recognized out of the crowd, brought into the fold, get the key assignments and budgets, etc.

And presto. Let's call it the Serpico Paradox: Those who have the honesty defect are not trustworthy.

In my lifetime (I'm 62), 2008 will be the best opportunity for a third party to WIN. Kucinich and Ron Paul would be wise to team up and run as independents. If that pipe dream occurs and Nader also runs (who knows for what party), the Dems and Repubs can kiss their asses goodbye. Wow..I would love to see that...yeah, I know dream on Willy Bill! But, man, then we would we have a real contest!! Neil Young.."I'm a dreamin man...guess that's my problem".