Not So Fast, Christian Soldiers
Maybe what the war in Iraq needs is not more troops but more religion. At least that’s the message the Department of Defense seems to be sending.
Last week, after an investigation spurred by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, the Pentagon abruptly announced that it would not be delivering “freedom packages” to our soldiers in Iraq, as it had originally intended. 
What were the packages to contain? Not body armor or home-baked cookies. Rather, they held Bibles, proselytizing material in English and Arabic and the apocalyptic computer game “Left Behind: Eternal Forces” (derived from the series of post-Rapture novels), in which “soldiers for Christ” hunt down enemies who look suspiciously like U.N. peacekeepers.
The packages were put together by a fundamentalist Christian ministry called Operation Straight Up, or OSU. Headed by former kickboxer Jonathan Spinks, OSU is an official member of the Defense Department’s “America Supports You” program. The group has staged a number of Christian-themed shows at military bases, featuring athletes, strongmen and actor-turned-evangelist Stephen Baldwin. But thanks in part to the support of the Pentagon, Operation Straight Up has now begun focusing on Iraq, where, according to its website (on pages taken down last week), it planned an entertainment tour called the “Military Crusade.”
Apparently the wonks at the Pentagon forgot that Muslims tend to bristle at the word “crusade” and thought that what the Iraq war lacked was a dose of end-times theology.
In the end, the Defense Department realized the folly of participating in any Operation Straight Up crusade. But the episode is just another example of increasingly disturbing, and indeed unconstitutional, relationships being forged between the U.S. military and private evangelical groups.
Take, for instance, the recent scandal involving Christian Embassy, a group whose expressed purpose is to proselytize to military personnel, diplomats, Capitol Hill staffers and political appointees. In a shocking breach of security, Defense Department officials allowed a Christian Embassy film crew to roam the corridors of the Pentagon unescorted while making a promotional video featuring high-ranking officers and political appointees. (Christian Embassy, which holds prayer meetings weekly at the Pentagon, is so entrenched that Air Force Maj. Gen. John J. Catton Jr. said he’d assumed the organization was a “quasi-federal entity.”)
The Pentagon’s inspector general recently released a report recommending unspecified “corrective action” for those officers who appeared in the video for violating Defense Department regulations. But, in a telling gesture, the report avoided any discussion of how allowing an evangelical group to function within the Defense Department is an obvious violation of the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.
The extent to which such relationships have damaged international goodwill toward the U.S. is beyond measure. As the inspector general noted, a leading Turkish newspaper, Sabah, published an article on Air Force Maj. Gen. Peter Sutton, who is the U.S. liaison to the Turkish military — and who appeared in the Christian Embassy video. The article described Christian Embassy as a “radical fundamentalist sect,” perhaps irreparably damaging Sutton’s primary job objective of building closer ties to the Turkish General Staff, which has expressed alarm at the influence of fundamentalist Christian groups inside the U.S. military.
Our military personnel swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the Bible. Yet by turning a blind eye to OSU and Christian Embassy activities, the Pentagon is, in essence, endorsing their proselytizing. And sometimes it’s more explicit than that.
That certainly was the case with Army Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin, deputy undersecretary of Defense for intelligence. The Pentagon put him in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda in 2003. The same year, Boykin was found to be touring American churches, where he gave speeches — in uniform — casting the Iraq war in end-times terms. “We’re in is a spiritual battle,” he told one congregation in Oregon. “Satan wants to destroy this nation . . . and he wants to destroy us as a Christian army.” The story wound up in newspapers, magazines and on “60 Minutes.” And, of course, it was reported all over the Muslim world. The Pentagon reacted with a collective shrug.
American military and political officials must, at the very least, have the foresight not to promote crusade rhetoric in the midst of an already religion-tinged war. Many of our enemies in the Mideast already believe that the world is locked in a contest between Christianity and Islam. Why are our military officials validating this ludicrous claim with their own fiery religious rhetoric?
It’s time to actively strip the so-called war on terror of its religious connotations, not add to them. Because religious wars are not just ugly, they are unwinnable. And despite what Operation Straight Up and its supporters in the Pentagon may think is taking place in Iraq, the Rapture is not a viable exit strategy.
Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times
Bloody Amazing!
Everyonce in awhile I need a reminder like this to realize just how completely different the mindset of some in the military really is.
Its not everyone in the military, but there are at least some that have this combination of extreme right-wing fanaticism, extreme Christian … sorry, but the only word for me is ‘craziness’, along with the belief for at least awhile that the Iraqis were responsible for 9-11 and the military is there to deliver pay-back.
When the Iraqis run into the people in the US military who think this way, is it any wonder they believe that we are engaged in a Christian crusade against the muslim world? Is there any belief we could spread in the muslin world that could be more dangerous to Americans?
COMarc…Bloody Amazing indeed. Are these people reading some other Bible?
Unfortunately the only people who don’t recognize the pacifism of Jesus Christ are Christians.
I think it was Eugene O’Neil who said “When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible”
To all the End Timers out there: Real Christianity is NOT a Doomsday Cult!
Police and military have a name for turning the other cheek: “dereliction of duty”
Police and military crucified Jesus. Notably, it was the police and military of an imperial nation occupying a middle eastern nation.
Hypochristians don’t even believe that we as a country should turn the other cheek. They also do not believe in the golden rule, what is wrong for Iran is right for us apparently. They also just do not believe in Jesus, or they would stop trying to save themselves with violence.
Real Christians don’t murder people or steal oil.
“..the Rapture is not a viable exit strategy.”, true enough, but it sure as hell is a viable “entrance” strategy, seems to be working quite fine for that! Who said they want an exit strategy? Today Iraq, tomorrow Iran, then?…. Ashes, ashes, we all fall down!
McDee, it was Sinclair Lewis who said that. (The fascism quote.)
‘when religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way’ frank herbert, ‘dune’
There was this really cool dude who lived ~2,000 years ago. It is claimed he said the following:
Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.
Whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also… and whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
If you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer our gift.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Lord, protect me from your followers!
The problem is the extremist christians are much more motivated to expand their influence than moderate Americans are to stop them. They persist and everyone else doesn’t take it that seriously. So, they continue getting more and more entrenched in our government and daily lives.
It’s all over for this country really. Insanity rules and it isn’t getting better. Moderate America is too complacent and comfortable, the country will be led by those who want it most; the super wealthy/greedy and mad christians. Say goodbye to all that was sensible.
Unless you want to stand up to them and out smart them, but these people are very desperate and very out of their minds and have a lot of variables on their side, such as rising costs of living and despair that drives people to follow their bullsh*t.
Speak out against christian madness whenever possible, in public, at work, at school, on the street. Don’t let these people spread their delusions at all, nip the crap in the bud whenever you hear it or see it, creationism, rapture, god, any of that talk needs to be corrected, belittled, and disproved. Empower these lost souls with facts and encouragement that they can be good strong people without fantasy tales.
For years now, the Air Force Academy has been “infiltrated” with Christian Evangelicals. Clearly, if enough of the Nutcase variety of Christiandom move into positions of leadership in our military, bad things are more likely to happen than good ones. Christiana Amanpour began a 3-part series on religion last night on CNN. I saw some of the part dealing with fundamentalist Jews. They say the Bible “tells” them that they alone have the right to live in their part of the world and the Palestinians have no rights. They feel this is God’s word, so who are they to argue with God? A couple of year’s ago I tried to organize a boycott of my local TV station in Rochester, MN because they broadcast the evil Pat Robertson and his 700 Club. This was the only letter to the editor I’ve ever written, that NO ONE would touch. Business is more important than anything in America, but add in the power of Chritain Fundamentalists and change is tough.
CSNY- Winchester Cathedral, too many have died in the name of christ for anyone left to heed the call!
for those of you that think “THIS” is not christianity, wake up! it may not be what you believe in, but christianity has been raping and pilliaging every other culture it has come into contact with since it came into existance. they learned long ago that with a distracting story and a big stick you can control just about anybody. Keep repeating the story and every time someone points out an inconsistency or questions your authority you smack them with the big stick, you may have to kill a few but most will stop asking questions.
How have we let the fundamentalist Christians, as well as the Islamic and Zionist extremists get such a stranglehold on the majority of the worlds peaceful populations? Why do we buy into their fear and hatred?
We most certainly are in a struggle of benevolent vs malicious forces but it is not Christians vs Muslims vs Jews, it’s all peace loving people vs their idiotic, fanatical and out of control leaders.
The data and theme of this article express the exact reason why I show such passion for this zealous form of Christianity which in my view simulates a viable “anti Christ” for its using the NAME of God as “permission to kill, sir” and thus inverting, tainting and rendering into blasphemy the TRUE teachings of Christ and other enlighened masters. Because religion relies upon faith, and because it works on emotions, those ensconced in its clutches CANNOT reason. When they are trained to believe the enemy is not worthy of their compassion, they lose any sense of their own and the other persons’ humanity. This is a diabolical combination. It also dovetails especially well (creating a 3-fold easy fit) with the basic personality of authoritarian types (who want a father figure giving them recipes for life, and rules to follow. When the rules are disobeyed, punishment then becomes viable) and those who are deeply attracted to sports with their color coding, team affilitations and dramatic attachment to competition and who wins. These mindsets have taken over MILLIONS of people, people in positions of power and people that are heavily armed. Can you imagine a worse possible scenario? Oh, perhaps the way nature is responding in the palpable waves of global warming. Lately when I go about my travels and look about like some kind of detached cosmic observer, the degree to which our world has been broken shakes my soul; and then I look into the innocent eyes of my 21 month old grandson, and wonder how all this came to be, and what it is his life will have to overcome, if he like his peers is to live on this once magnificent planet.
MURDERER (by Low)
One more thing before I go,
One more thing I’ll ask you, Lord:
You may need a murderer,
Someone to do your dirty work.
Don’t act so innocent:
I’ve seen you pound your fists into the earth
And I’ve read your books.
Seems that you could use another fool–
Well, I’m cruel
And I look right through…
You must have more important things to do,
So if you need a murderer,
Someone to do your dirty work…
There’s been one major monster that I’ve feared my whole life - the collective mind of religious zealots, and what they’ve done throughout history. And now that monster is quickly coming together again. I seem to recall reading somewhere that in every department of “our!??” government, there is now a “Faith Based” office, funded of course with our taxes.
Saw a bumper sticker once that sums it up for me:
The Christian Right are not right Christians.
I’m sad to say, but those fundamentalist crazies apparently have read their bibles better than you.
Christianity is not a peace-loving religion, it is the exact opposite and it demands blind obedience to even the most idiotic rules, thoroughly mistrusts critical thought and despises own initiative, please read the fucking texts and read what it says not what you’d love it to say. Christianity does not belong in this time, it belongs in a multiple shattered form of opposite theologies about two millenia ago. Everything after that was an abomination or the texts are even wrong in that you cannot judge the tree by the fruit it bares. Endtime-fruit with their fingers on a nuclear arsenal. It’s just surreal.
With all the pain in modern US society, opiates sell, and evangelical Christianity is apparently one hell of an opiate.
The following is an excerpt from a longer posting at:
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2717
” The Christian fundamentalist and Christian Zionist worldview converges with the agenda of neoconservatives like William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard; syndicated journalists William Safire and Charles Krauthammer; and the chief advisers in the Bush White House — Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and Elliott Abrams, Many of these figures used to work with pro-Israel think tanks such as AIPAC; MEMBI (Middle East Media Research Institute); JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs); and the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Perle narrowly escaped conviction for trading intelligence secrets with Israel in the late 1970s, and Abrams was convicted (and pardoned by Reagan) in the Iran-Israel-contra weapons and financial scandal.
The neo-conservatives’ quest for U.S. domination of the oil fields in the Middle East and of military and economic geopolitics in that region aligns neatly with the views of Harvard scholar Samuel P. Huntington, whose “clash of civilizations” theory divides the world into the West vs. the Rest. In the Huntington scenario, Islam is the force most hostile to U.S. interests — a point of view that fits well with the “evil empire” rhetoric and the Antichrist scenarios found among the Christian Zionists. The “clash of civilizations” rhetoric often takes on theological overtones, as it did in the president’s 2002 and 2003 State of the Union addresses.
The advisers around Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney are driving their views home. Anatol Lieven, writing recently in the London Review of Books, points to a 1996 policy paper “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” by Perle and Douglas Feith, which advised Netanyahu to abandon the Oslo peace process and return to military repression of the Palestinians. The policy statement was developed in an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. The document seems to have played a large part in shaping the Bush administration’s strategy on Iraq, and perhaps for redrawing Middle East borders according to the Likud vision.”
For more entertainment, just Google words such as:
Zionists evangelical Christian fundamentalists Israel likud party
This illustrates sufficient of one example that Christians are the scum of the Earth. American Christians believe the falsehood that they are more righteous and vituous than Muslims, even persecute them in their own country. I recall a Muslim politician who was recently elected in the USA, yet would not allow him to swear on the Koran. If an individual runs for President Governor or any other office, they had better be the in the correct denomintion of Christianity, such as the Assembly of God or the Southern Baptists.
Genocides happened from actions that the Christians have done. These so-called Islamofascists - an oxymoron, as Americans should know, but unfortunately do not for obvious reasons sort of like how Christianrationalists would be an oxymoron as well - are doing exactly what the Christians have done during The Crusades in which the Catholics killed other Christians and Muslims. Christians by no means are experts on virtue nor in any position to claim they are more righteous than Muslims.
Remember the price paid to Jewish people for their domination of commerce and finance throughout Europe for several centuries? Remember that your demographic may suffer the same fate. A FATE YOU RIGHTLTY DESERVE! What do I mean by “fate” and “the price paid” Christians? Use your imagination, if you can. Christians throughout the world have not been punished as of yet for their involvement of initiating wars, the Salem witch burnings, the persecution of homosexuals, falsifying scientific reports, slave holders, selective reading and deliberate ignoring of their vague ambiguous and contradictory book (note that the Koran is less vague and not as many contradictions as the Holy Bible has), abuse of Government power, etc. etc.
Now some people may be offended by what I said. What I have written is not nearly as offensive as Christians persecuting and killing people associated with various demographics. Not all Christians are bad people one may say? Well not all Muslims, pagans, feminists, gay people, atheists, doctors, and witches are bad either. The United Church of Christ, the Unitarians, and other more tolerant and loving Christians are, unfortunately, in the minority. Assembly of God, Pentacost, and other fundamentalist Christian denominations represent real Christians. Obviously, the latter have more exposure in America than the former ones. Therefore their congregations are larger. So spare the defense that “I am a nice Christian who does not read the LEFT BEHIND books or believe in its theology” becasue I simply will not believe you. Most Christians in The United States support torturing foreigners, invading Iraq, eliminating Habeus Corpus, and believe that people who visit the USA for vacation should not be treated at hospitals if they are injured.
So what do you have to say for yourselves now Holy Rollers?!
There is a local politician where I live who for forty years has been telling, and whenever possible, legislating how everyone else should live (what and how much to drink, prohibitions against gambling, sex, birth control, etc.)
He was charged today with aiding and abetting prostitution (paying for sex in a motel in a neighboring town). He has resigned as the head of some Republican linked, right wing Baptist organization.
After a lifetime of making life full of guilt and shame for everybody else (i.e. except for those who knew he was the self-righteous blowhard I knew him to be) he now is full of pleas for forgiveness and understanding.
“What you did to me—that I forgive you, but what you did to yourself—how could I forgive you that?”—Nietzsche
jesus, save me from your followers.
The title of this article is quite intriguing. I am not surprised by either “crusade” war rhetoric, or the collusion between the US government and the Christian zealots. The invasion of Native American land itself started with that rhetoric and some of the US presidents have been fierce christian zealots.
The English Puritan revolution was justified repeatedly by biblical analogies drawn from the OT. Using a rather dubious interpretation of the book of Daniel, the revolutionaries saw themselves as “the Saints of the Most High,” commissioned to execute judgment on kings and nobles. Oliver Cromwell drew a parallel between his revolution and the exodus and proceeded to treat the Catholics of Ireland as the Canaanites. He even declared that “there are great occasions in which some men are called to great services in the doing of which they are excused from the common rule of morality,” as were the heroes of the OT. The Puritans of New England applied the biblical texts about the conquest to their own situation, casting the Native American tribes in the role of the Canaanites and Amalekites. In 1689, Cotton Mather urged the colonists to go forth against “Amalek annoying this Israel in the wilderness.” A few years later, one Herbert Gibbs gave thanks for “the mercies of God in extirpating the enemies of Israel in Canaan.” Similar rhetoric persisted in American Puritanism through the eighteenth century, and indeed biblical analogies have continued to play a part in American political rhetoric down to the present.
The presidents of the US in their “colonizing crusade” invoked the “Christian God”. President McKinley said, “We’re going into the Philippines to civilize and Christianize the Filipinos.” He said: “I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and I guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me: 1) I That we could not give them [the Philippines] back to Spain — that would be cowardly and dishonorable; 2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germany — our commercial rivals in the Orient — that would be bad business and discreditable; 3) that we could not leave them to themselves — they were unfit for self-government — and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain’s was; and 4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the … War Department map-maker, and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large wall map), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!”
Until 1933, 120,000 U.S. troops occupied the Philippines. “Pacifying” those “heathens” took longer than McKinley thought and brought out the brute in the soul of U.S. Christian soldiers. A frustrated U.S. general even ordered troops to kill every Philippine male over age ten. Fortunately, that order was not carried out, but U.S. troops did slay up to 200,000 Philippine men and women in three years, until overwhelming superiority in weapons and sheer ruthlessness overcame local resistance forces. Two thousand U.S. “Christian crusaders” died, as well. This bloody war on the Philippines lasted seven years, which involved massacres and the extermination of populations. The US had “civilized” and “Christianized” the Filipinos and established its control. One critical citizen satirized McKinley’s war: “G is for guns/ That McKinley has sent/ To teach Filipinos/ What Jesus Christ meant.”
U.S. President William McKinley’s words should echo with President Bush. Bush has confessed that he talks to God and hears His words. Like McKinley, Bush understands that the stars and stripes stand for inseparable U.S. commercial interests and Christian zealot purposes.The Christian zealots of the time praised McKinley’s will in overcoming Satan (Phililippinos) with military force. Now the descendents of these zealots that counseled McKinley, push Armageddon and Rapture as themes of U.S. war policy. Few days after 9/11 President Bush called his war on terrorism as “This crusade.”
The world knows that it was Rev. Jerry Falwel, who was instrumental in making Ronald Reagan as the US president. The Christain zealot crusader Billy Graham validated the immoral and unethical Vietnam war. Christian zealot crusaders like Pat Robertson, James Dobson, influence the US goverment and its polices. Everyone knows that the US mercinary company “Blackwater”, which is active in Iraq and Somalia, funds some of the Christian zealot crusaders, like James Dobson. Watch Trinity Broadcasting Network,where you will see the US christian crusaders (that is, US soldiers) distributing christian literature in Iraq and Afghanistan. That means the American christian evangelism includes genocidal activities and distribution of christian literature.
The author writes that “many of our enemies in the Middle East believe that the world is locked in a contest between christianity and Islam.” Who are these “enemies”? Are they really “enemies” of the US or is the US projecting “them” as “enemies” in order to occupy sovereign countries by mercilessly killing innocent people with the rhetoric of CRUSADE. It is not the “enemies” who are the CREATORS of this rhetoric, “CRUSADE” is one of the PILLARS of the US foreign policy. Otherwise it can not convince its “zealous” citizens for invasion of other countries and its genocidal activities.
Let me tell you US christianity is not the Christianity that is being practised in other parts of the world. Atleast what I understand is that the God who has revealed himself (herself) in Jesus Christ is not a BLOOD-THIRSTY MONSTER, but the ONE WHO HAS MADE HIMSELF (HERSELF) VULNERABLE AND THUS IDENTIFIED HIMSELF (HERSELF) WITH THE VICTIMS OF SOCIO-RELIGIOUS AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE TO THE EXTENT OF DYING AS A POLITICAL “CRIMINAL”.
THEREFORE, THE US “ZEALOT” (AND CRUSADE) CHRISTIANITY DOES NOT REPRESENT GOD REPRESENTED BY JESUS CHRIST.
christianity has been the most destructive force in the history of mankind.
There is a website called, George W. Bush is the antichrist
and another one called, liberals like Christ.
I can’t seem to make links work. Sorry
Siouxrose wrote:
Lately when I go about my travels and look about like some kind of detached cosmic observer, the degree to which our world has been broken shakes my soul; and then I look into the innocent eyes of my 21 month old grandson, and wonder how all this came to be, and what it is his life will have to overcome, if he like his peers is to live on this once magnificent planet.
*****************
Kivals wrote:
With all the pain in modern US society, opiates sell, and evangelical Christianity is apparently one hell of an opiate.
**********
I think both of you have yanked at the the nail of this problem (or untwisted the screw of this problem if that is your preferred metaphor)
To plagerize Edward R. Murrow’s famous analysis of Joseph McCarthy, neocons did not invent this situation they merely exploited it while the moderate to progressive voices of society remained mute and offerd no meaningful rebuttal.
If you want proof recall any of the Democratic presidential debates so far and try real hard to find anything that would distinguish the likes of Hillary, Barak O, Richardson, Dodd, or Biden from the prevailing war philosophy of the current adminstration.
When and where did her royal highness Ms. Nancy Pelosi or Senator Harry Reid declare, “hell no we won’t go along with this crap and let there be blood in the streets before we roll over and play dead to the mad men and women in the White House and their administration!
They are all like so many bought and paid for ladies of the night whose pimps are the well-endowed corporate interests and think-tank academics who firmly hold their rhinestone- studded leashes.
What we have is a ruling elite with a vested interest in the growing despair and hopelessness of even greater segments of the American population because desperate people isolated from any sense of community are easy targets for being sold the poisonous nostrums of intolerant scapegoating and are willing to believe any magical rhetorical crap spewed forth by their maximum leaders. (See any Bush administratiion press conference or briefing).
It is how Mussolini and Hitler got their start in post WWI Italy and Germany and uless we start turning off the TV and start reaching out to one another in moderate dialog it is how those 80 million or so brown shirts already part of the Christo-Fascist evangelical movement will be swollen to tens of millions of more voting age people.
First rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:
Believe no official statement unless it is a denial and then believe what is being denied.
Second Rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:
What they will do to gays, lesbians, abortion providers, and femninists they will do to anyone else–it’s just a matter of how far down on their “to do” list you are.
Third rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:
The most effective way to oppose their activities is to form alternative commuity that support, inform, and defend one another–communities united by that on which they agree and not divided by that on which they diasagree.
How many of your neighbors do you know?
When was the last time you spoke ro any of them?
How often do you get together socially?
Do you have any ideas of how they feel about neighborhood, city, state or national matters?
Even if they are the cultural, racial, social, political, and/or ethnic oposite of you can you find something, anything to respect about them?
Until all of us can answer these questions and act on them we are just sitting ducks either waiting to come under the thrall and sway of authnoritarian movememnts or (in the alternative) to put a bulseye on our backsides to be picked off one at a time when it is the time.to do so.
“A frustrated U.S. general even ordered troops to kill every Philippine male over age ten.”
That’s Yahweh for you.
You cannot judge a belief by it’s misuse. The message of Christ was not a violent message. To sum up the message and beliefs that Jesus came to teach would be this: Love and treat people the way you want to be treated and God gave us all free will to live our lives how we choose.
True followers of Christ understand these concepts and would not agree with violence of any kind carried out in the name of our religion.
Violence stops somewhere and a good starting point is loving thy neighbor, whoever they are.
God gave us free will so that we could choose how we wanted to live our lives, even if we choose the wrong things, it is our choice. So no one but God has the right to tell someone how they should live their life. It is not a Christian’s place to judge or punish someone for how they choose to live, that right belongs soley to God.
Real true born again Christians do not lie, steal and kill.
Let’s pray for our America.
Let’s ask our Lord and Saviour to forgive us.
Let’s vote for John Edwards as our next president
Let’s pray and support our troops wherever they are.
I am very appreciateve of this site. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Cleophus
The congressman you referred to was Keith Ellison.
And he DID take his oath using a two-volume
Koran once owned by Thomas Jefferson.
Of course numerous right-wing blogs and articles,
including one by Judge Roy “Ten Commandments in the
Courthouse” Moore, called it un-American.
Four US presidents have taken office without swearing
the oath on a Bible. And various other office
holders have sworn their oaths on the Hebrew
Bible or Jewish prayer books.
Brutality, terror, killing and pillaging is not limited to any particular prevailing ideology, religion, or tribe, it’s our history as humanity, or should I say our inhumanity, going back for as far into our past as we can see. We seem to always be able to justify our brutality in the name of some fanciful IDEAL.
When we learn to drop ALL ideologies this murderous psychosis will end. I’m not waiting for it to happen in my lifetime, it may take thousands of years. Meanwhile I do what I can, but really? the killing, the maiming, the brutality will continue and there is little to nothing we rationalists can do about it except watch and shake our heads in disgust.
Sometimes I wonder who has the crusade agenda…is it OBL or the right-wing Christian fundas…?
This is all leading to some satanic grand battle, leaving the planet in smoldering ruins, as a hysterical, drooling Satan looks on, eyes like two burning suns, and as he opens his mouth to grab another lung full of poisonous air, you can see in his mouth galaxies in flames, and a billion souls flying into a black hole of eternal damnation.
And standing next to satan, at his “right hand” will be the bush administration, Satan’s highwaymen, with shackles around their ankles, and necks, reading their prepared texts, to the assembled legions of vacant eyed, shaved head soldiers, rifles at the ready.
No one should be surprised that this is going on. The president has always stated his allegiance to the American Taliban segment of the population, publicly and proudly. The problem lies with a US media which continually invokes the spectre of an evil, creeping fundamentalist brand of Islam seeking to sweep away Western civilization, yet tosses all pretense of objectivity out the door by failing to note that the viewpoint of many Americans is just as religiously fanatical as the Taliban’s or al-Qa’ida’s.
As much as anyone in the media may boast of objectivity when reporting anything, we all convey our biases in one way or another and I don’t necessarily see anything wrong with that, unless you’re out hypocritically trumpeting your supposed objectivity to everyone.
The Christian right (and the menace it presents to civilized society) is pretty much ignored in the US because it is a popular, widespread mindset in this country. People may not like to think of themselves in comparison to the Taliban or other extremist religious sects around the world, but the truth is the truth.
While we’re busy demanding that less radical Muslims reign in their more radical brethren, we need to look closely at our own situation. The Christian right (let’s not forget their far-right Zionist friends) is primed for fascism, they feel very confident at this point in time, and they’ve always been given a pass by society-at-large.
American appointed political officials under the Bush/Cheney administration do not have any foresight because they believe in the Crusade. It would seem, as more of the high-ranking officers retire, the Bush administration has been busily replacing them with religious crusaders as quickly as possible. Look at General Peter Pace waxing religious over the “don’t ask, don’t tell” nonsense. If Bush bombs Iran, you can bet that more will resign who want no part of it. That would leave the willing crusaders to carry out the war crimes. Note to the comment about Unitarians: I am a Christian Unitarian Universalist. But we have Jews, a Buddhist, atheists, agnostics and others in our democratically-run congregation with no problem because we have no creed other than respect for all and active efforts to help others and bring about justice and peace to our communities and world. Spirituality is good. It is when authoritarian cult mind control is practiced, isolating people from others and putting a stop to questioning and tolerance, that religion becomes twisted and harmful. Those who blame all Christians in America for what the extreme right does understand nothing about the historic impact on America of Christians and Jews for positive good.
Military Religious Freedom Foundation?
That phrase reads like a Republican wingnut orgasm.
…not to be crass or crude or anything.
As posted on Huffington, last Sunday, great read —-
“Current events have inspired me to read old texts. From the translation of
Alexis De Toucqueville’s Forward to The old Regimen and the French Revolution
(Stuart Gilbert translation from 1955)
“For in a community in which the ties of family, of caste, of class, and of
craft fraternities no longer exist people are far too much disposed to think
exclusively of their own interests, to become self-seekers practicing a narrow
individualism and caring nothing for the public good. Far from trying to
counteract such tendencies despotism encourages them, depriving the governed of
any sense of solidarity and interdependence; of good-neighborly feelings and a
desire to further the welfare of the community at large. It immures
(Definition: confines within a wall) them, so to speak, each in his private
life and, taking advantage of the tendency they already have to keep apart, it
estranges them still more. Their feelings toward each other were already
growing cold; despotism freezes them.
Since in such communities nothing is stable, each man is haunted by a fear of
sinking to a lower social level and by a restless urge to better his condition.
And since money has not only become the sole criterion of a man’s social status
but has also acquired an extreme mobility–that is to say it changes hands
incessantly, raising or lowering the prestige of individuals and
families–everybody is feverishly intent on making money or, if already rich,
on keeping his wealth intact. Love of gain, a fondness for business careers,
the desire to get rich at all costs, a craving for the material comfort and
easy living quickly become ruling passions under a despotic government. They
affect all classes, even those who hitherto have seemed allergic to them, and
tend to lower the moral standards of the nation as a whole if no effort be made
to chack their growth. It is in the nature of despotism that it should foster
such desires and propagate their havoc. Lowering as they do the national
morale, they are despotism’s safeguard, since they divert men’s attention from
public affairs and make them shudder at the mere thought of a revolution.
Despotism alone can provide that atmosphere of secrecy which favors crooked
dealings and enables the freebooters (Definition: A person who pillages and
plunders, especially a pirate) of finance to make illicit fortunes. Under other
forms of government such propensities exist, undoubtedly; under a despotism
they are given free rein.”
And while there are strong parallels, there are two significant differences
between then and now. First, the “peasants” (as De Tocqueville calls them) of
today don’t know how to deal with hardship; and second, the internet has
availed us of powers of association and knowledge which was not then available,
for at least this moment.
AMANDLA says, “The Christian right (and the menace it presents to civilized society) is pretty much ignored in the US because it is a popular, widespread mindset in this country.” This is a MOST inaccurate statement, when it has been the Christian reich/right that has delivered the nation to Bush. THAT is his voting block!
URTHSONG says, “Spirituality is good. It is when authoritarian cult mind control is practiced, isolating people from others and putting a stop to questioning and tolerance, that religion becomes twisted and harmful. Those who blame all Christians…” I have been to unitarian churches and I agree, they are a very enlightened environment. The same CAN be said of certain sects, but this is apples to oranges, friend! This discussion would not be necessary if this very dark, aggressive and SAVAGE species of Christianity was not being consciously fomented as a means to rev up soldiers for a “holy” war. Sure, it’s about oil, the failing US dollar and a host of other issues; but tired soldiers will fight harder if they really think GOD has something to do with the battle. Besides, this phony sense of impunity eases the amoral act of murdering OTHER simply because their identity has been drummed up into an enemy fiction.
POET: One of your best postings and obviously I agree.
I would LOVE to see religion lift minds, hearts and actions but when it is being USED for the opposite purposes and when MILLIONS go along with this tide, then religion must be challenged. Here religion is being used for the purposes of WAR.
REBEL NOW says, “When we learn to drop ALL ideologies this murderous psychosis will end.” This is a solid statement, one to which I whole heartedly agree. However, since Europe has the greatest footprint of aggression upon the world, and since Europe has largely followed some version of Christianity, although one can find violence in just about every world culture, NO singular religion has as much blood on its hands as the Christians. The two fiercest images that come to my mind include the BURNING of women accused of witchcraft, a disgusting sadistic spectacle that purportedly killed over a million women. This is religion? Second, the way the indigenous were “converted,” or otherwise tortured for failing to accept Jesus as their savior. As if Christ would have validated the diabolical levels of brutality done in his name. I realize the Jews in Israel are using equally disgusting aggressive tactics, and that many Muslims are capable of violence, too. If societies taught peace we would probably see a max of l0% of any population show violence, but when religion justifies violence in its own name, then we can see upwards of 80% of populations become sheep following one another over a moral cliff. THAT is the place US society has come to… BECAUSE it is the zealots who are fueling a presidency that is BENT upon war and destruction. The TRUTH is the only thing that can break this spell, and if we have an interest in living, in releasing this planet to new generations, we’d better speak the truth about this or a 21st century crusade armed with nuclear weapons and the pathetic concept of a big bang, could indeed replicate quite a big bang and take most of us along.
More like Right Behinds, Eternal Farces resurrecting the rupture among the children of Abraham for miserepublican FUNDAMENTal missions.
apocalyptic fantasies are part & parcel of the judaeo-xian-muslim scriptural tradition. but there are two interesting features about the US: it’s foundation as a “city on a hill,” as The New World (promised by the prophet Isaiah, i believe), and all that puritan crap somebody pointed out above. the 2nd thing is disappointment w/that new world: the US declares itself the end (destiny) of humanity (fukuyama’s end of history and the last man nonsense); such an end is very, very disappointing. the glorious New Jerusalem/Promised Land is a bitter joke. so that end of humanity is in danger of literally becoming the end (death) of humanity.
these fundies are whackos and there are different factors involved, but one of them is profound disappointment w/the myth of America.
Please do not deride all Christians and think they are all on the same page…
There are a lot of good Bible-believing Christians who do not believe the theology of the West vs. the rest/Islam, etc. It’s not Biblical.
There are many Bible-believing Christians who disagree with the Israel-only theological agenda, as not being true to the Bible or prophecies. We also have not forgotten that Jesus was peace-loving and against the use of force. (Which the “Left Behind” game seems to contradict!)
I read in the Bible that Jesus treated with respect those who held different theology, even “erroneous” theology, but didn’t denounce their religion. Rather, he simply said, “Someday you will worship [God] in both spirit and in truth.”
Again, please do not attack all Christians. Not all so-called Christians follow Christ (ironically).
This type of missionary program where you bomb and occupy a country then give them Bibles is a slightly different approach than Jesus used to gain followers.
I don’t think we should blame Jesus for this problem.
To Sir Melvin and others who have expressed such vehement anger:
When you refer to Christians as “scum of the earth” do you include in that Father Roy Bourgeois, who leads the annual protest at the School of the Americas at Ft. Benning, GA? Or how about the hundreds of people each year, a great many of whom (perhaps the majority) are Christians, who go to that protest? Are they the scum of the earth? And does the epithet, in your mind, also apply to Dr. Martin Luther King, who, of course, also was a Christian?
The point I’m trying to make here simply is that Christianity, like pretty much anything else, including other religions, is largely what you make of it. Father Bourgeois, Martin Luther King, the liberation theologists of Latin America–all these have made of it something good. Pat Robertson and all the other minions of the “Christian Right” have twisted it into something evil. But of course, that such a twisting would occur was predicted by no less than Jesus himself–who said there would be “false prophets” purporting to be his followers, who would “come in my name”, but who in reality would be wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Jesus’ teachings were very similar to the Buddha’s–compassion, nonviolence, love, mercy, and understanding. Try and remember that, and don’t let your thoughts be tainted by some who purport–deceitfully–to be his followers.
It’s not the teachings of the the Galilean master that are in question; a reading of his Sermon on the Mount tells us of his universal call for peace among all men.
Its only in the brooding, egotistical cauldron of the mind of men that His sacrifice was twisted into meaning he died for OUR sins for eternity. He didn’t. Yes, his life is an inspiration and a model for us to hope we could obtain someday (”ye shall do greater things then even I”) but his sacrifice on the cross was to take on the Karma of his disciples, to cleanse them (prepare the vessel to contain the enormity of cosmic consciousness,) that they would be ready for his return visit, three days later and the moment when he would confer upon them the Holy Ghost. Once anointed with the vision of eternal life, and having removed the lie that is death (that the soul-consciousness DOES live beyond the body), they then had the internal knowledge and thus the courage, to face the certain death that would visit them as they went out to preach the “good news” in a dark and cruel world.
How far has “religion” twisted this truth, as can be seen any Sunday in “Christian” churches and on the TV every night as charlatans and hawkers of fairy tales and fables scam the unwitting of their small finances to visit suffering on all who dare speak truth to power.
Amazing… and this is a place where the reasonably intelligent hang out to read and blog? It seems that most don’t “get it” yet. When it comes to Religion, which is, by definiton, faith-based (i.e. non-rational) there is NO Rational arguement FOR or AGAINST. It is all merely pissing in the wind.
Moreover, this is more than ample evidence that - despite the unbelievable Love and Creativity and Compassion and Beautiful Music and Stories and all that is Best in relatively few Humans - the rest of the 8 Billion are nothing but rampaging, raping, murderous, and dangerously INSANE Apes that somehow escaped from the Zoo of Africa !!!
What Bible are YOU reading, Oebi Wan? The Catholic Church until fairly recently may have required mindless obedience, but Jesus Christ most certainly does not. He shared his wisdom with his followers in the form of parables, encouraging them to think for themselves.
Try not to confuse the medium with the message. Better yet, try going straight to the source: the Gospels. Other posters have commented eloquently on the need to differentiate between fundamentalist “Christians” and the more faithful kind so I won’t elaborate on that, except to say that I appreciate the fact that the blanket anti-Christian rhetoric has toned down considerably on these pages in recent weeks.
Many Christians, including myself, are appalled by groups like the one described in this article, and consider their actions the ultimate breaking of the commandment to not take the name of the Lord in vain, by using the name of Christ to foist on others the worst kinds of arrogance, hatred, violence and greed.
Jesus told us that anyone who failed to care for the poor and hungry would not be welcome in his kingdom. I wonder what he’ll do with people who call themselve Christians and CREATE additional suffering in the world???
This type of video game is merely a form of brainwash. Desensitizing the act of murder, slaughter, toture and destruction. Since we are not winning the hearts and mind we will slaughter the enemy in the name of Jesus. Then god will come down and take us to heaven because we are Christian beleivers. We are on the side of God, Gods army, so we will go off and kill other children of God because um… because um… because umm… oh because they believe in god too, but he is not the right God!!! blah…blah…blah..Humans can justify just about anything, except for taking reponsibility for their own actions.
Here’s a REALLY scary thought: It is March 2009, President Hillary has pulled the troops back to the “perimeter” of Iraq admidst howls of outrage from the Right Wing Noise Machine that she has “lost” the war. Tens of thousands of disgruntled veterans who’ve been playing this stupid game are sent home and discharged into a sputtering economy that has no decent jobs for them.
Shake well, and TA DA, a REAL fascist movement emerges right here in the homeland.
That’s the agenda here.
Every day brings new stories that strain my credulity. Is there no end to this descent into hell?
The funny thing about beliefs is they have to be defended. They need all this dogma and rules and regulations to defend them. Truth on the other hand doesn’t. Truth stands alone never needing to be defended but just uncoved. I’ve always said it is better to beleive in nothing and go from there, than to believe in something that was imposed on you by others. Only then can you uncover what truely resonates with you. Ive always liked the following line from Bill Hicks:
“Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration … that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There’s no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we’re the imagination of ourselves. Here’s Tom with the weather.”.
“There was only one Christian, and he died on the Cross.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche
There is nothing so absurd a distortion and inversion of the teachings of a great soul by such petty and base creatures as the Christian “Church”. Christ fought against the Jewish “Church” of his time, and agains Jewish Law and tradition - and hypocrisy. He was the world’s first great revolutionary in a truly political sense. His “render unto Ceasar” bit was an indication that he was not concerned with Rome, but with his own people, the Jewish people, and what they could achieve morally and spiritually if the were free from the Law and simply loved their neighbor as they loved themselves.
That someone should struggle and fight constantly for more temporal power, more riches, and yet be absolved and forgiven by Christ by going to Church on Sunday is the greatest lie of that power-hungry institution.
The sad fact is that I doubt that the elites of America who take advantage of this particularly fanatical and dangerous strain of Christianity really believe, and certainly don’t anticipate with any pleasure, the thought of an apocalypse. After all, those in charge are convinced materialists, and the idea of losing their material possessions in some world-spanning cataclysm of biblical proportions is anathema to them. They also must certainly realize that, if this shit is real, then as they are sinners of the highest order, they aren’t taking part in any rapture!
Oebi is right i’m afraid.
jesus wasn’t really peaceful:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36)
I came not to send peace, but a sword. … A man’s foes shall be they of his own household.”
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
the bible is filled with murders of entire cities. a man onan was killed just for spilling his seed outside of his dead brother’s wife. 50k plus people were killed just for looking in the Ark.
almost the entire world was drowned in noah’s flood.
and on and on and on. and if we don’t believe, we are destined to be boiled forever in god’s eternal wok pot “hell”
Loving? honestly, folks is it? read the bible, i mean really read it, and don’t ignore the OT as “the old law”.
frankly i am sick of hearing that christianity is a peaceful religion. it is NOT. peace loving christians have thankfully taken only the good parts of the bible.
these violent games are just a continuation of what is in the bible.
IGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS, IT IS UNFORGIVABLE!
What you see today is a result of a well-planned dumbing down of America, that went into high gear toward the end of the Vietnam era. The ruling class hired the pros to manipulate the public . They set up so-called think tanks, paying big money to “intellectual” experts who wrote books and articles for newspapers and magazines, made appearances on tv and radio shows and the lecture circuit, promoting the neo-liberal, right-wing doctrine of corporate godhood backed by the military and police agencies. When they realized the power of invoking Christianity and “god” in their crusade to turn the public into non-thinking automotons who would adhere to such a pious philosophy, the power elite had cause to celebrate. Hence, this article on Common Dreams.
“Prove all things, hold fast that which is good” and, “eternal vigilence”, and one of my heros, the great George Seldes whose book “NEVER TIRE OF PROTESTING” has become my motto.
Peace and Harmony, Love and Compassion, and Understanding, to all in the world.
godlessrant
I could not agree with you more. I think all religion is written to appear to be wholesome and just ,when the text is actually laced with violence and wrath, but always to the none believers.
Religion = Divison plain and simple.
Cartoon Messiah
“There was only one Christian, and he died on the Cross.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Could not be closer to the truth. Only Jesus new who he was and what his relationship to God was. All this stuff has been passed down, written and rewritten.
Plus should it be taken literally of figuratively?
Perfect example of what godlessrant quoted:
I came not to send peace, but a sword. … A man’s foes shall be they of his own household.”
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Does this mean literally he came with a sword to slay his fellows a pit people against their families?
or
does he figuratively mean he came to break down the establisment and pit your beleifs(or his new ones) of you godly connection to the beliefs of you predessesors?
So it is a slippery slope, but that is what I have been saying. Religion divides period. You either believe this or your out. We must all find that inner guidance or we’re doomed
Peace
Thanks tbonez, yes my point is that there’s always talk of how the right wing has “subverted christianity’s peaceful intentions”, but can one say the bible is peaceful after a little run thru it’s pages?
for example the slaughter that happened after looking in the Ark:
1st samuel 6:19
6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
6:20 And the men of Bethshemesh said, Who is able to stand before this holy LORD God? and to whom shall he go up from us?
“because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men:”
not killed for murder. not killed for rape. not killed for child molesting. killed for “looking into the Ark”????
over 50,000 people killed for looking in what was essentially a box? gimme a break? this is peacefulness? please tell me what crime was exactly committed? the god of christianity is NOT peaceful. how come christians are quick to quote psalms and some other verses in the OT, but neglect to explain how this is “loving” or just?
there are many fine christians and thankfully they don’t follow everything that is in this ancient book. “good book”? how is it really good?
Cartoon Mesiah -Christ fought against the Jewish “Church” of his time, and agains Jewish Law and tradition - and hypocrisy. He was the world’s first great revolutionary in a truly political sense. His “render unto Ceasar” bit was an indication that he was not concerned with Rome, but with his own people, the Jewish people, and what they could achieve morally and spiritually if the were free from the Law and simply loved their neighbor as they loved themselves.
You know nothing about Judaism. The Jews brought morality and spirituality onto this earth precisely because they clung to the law. They were not slave to the law. They loved it. You people pretend that the Hebrew scriptures are a part of your bible, but then you claim that it means nothing. The fact is that they were only included as part of your bible as an attempt to use them as “proofs” to try to convert Jews. The new testament, however stands alone and nothing in the Jewish scriptures predicts Jesus. However, everything that Jesus taught was already part of the law. He taught nothing new as he drew from the tradition from which he was raised.
Jesus was a part of the times in which he lived. He lived in a world which was dominated by Rome. The Jews were the curse of the Roman empire. They hated the Jews for not cooperating with their subjugation. From the time the Romans replaced their rightful king from the Hasmonean line with Herod, an Idumean, not a Jew, the Jews wanted a rightful King back on the throne. It certainly seems that Jesus was that man. He was certainly well connected. He had people in his entourage that were associated with the resistance. As the above postings show, he encouraged resistance.
Jesus was not g-d. He was just a man. Perhaps even the legitimate heir to the throne. That was too big a threat to the Romans. After the Empire started to crumble and Chritianity started to spread, The Romans couldn’t very well tell their people that they killed their own “g-d,” so they blamed it on the Jews. The rest is history.
These are things I believe:
“Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.” Bumper sticker
“Right is right, even if everyone is against it; and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it.” William Penn
“As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.” Dick Cavett
“The world in which you were born is just one model of reality. Other cultures are not failed attempts at being you, they are unique manifestations of the human spirit.”
Wade Davis
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Arthur C. Clarke
The Christian Right has been forming strong ties for thirty years and got a foot hold during the Reagan era. They remind me of a plague and I can’t help but wonder just what it is that infiltrates their brain: an ether, or some mysterious fume that kills their brain cells. Believe me, these people can be dangerous as well as wicked if you disagree with them. When they approach my door, I say get out of here. And they reply, have a nice day. And I reply, I was having the time of my life until you right wing wackos knocked at my door. Throw them all out. I think they must be mad. I know they make me mad but still I wonder, just what happened to their mind. Or did they ever have a mind of their own.?
Within the very best lies there is a kernal of truth; foremost in worlds history of lies are the writings within the Judeo Christian Chronicles and the people who say they believe them without question are the kernals from which so much of this worlds misery and destruction have sprung.
Within their pages are universal truths but man not content to just allow truth for truths sake has so perverted them to fit his own version of Godhood that the levels of his polutions hide the truths.
Te present version of those holders of “Their Truths” recognizes no sin man can commit except denial of the Holy Trinity, as they lie cheat and steal in an attempt to bring back that Trinity by doing the job that trinity was supposed to do, mainly kill all unbeleivers of the Trinity.
That the trinity beleivers in “Their Truth” do not come right out and admit that they will also kill the ones who wrote the first lies for not telling the lies of the second writings is part of that no sin except the sin philosophy.
Today the first liars need second liars help in killing off another group that threatens to expose both their lies with ther own version of “Truth” means the other can commit no sin as they lie and use each other just as long as the first truth does not have to fear immediate destruction by either side until after they rid the earth of the third writings.
All this lies and misery stemming from those lies means that someday somewhere, presently it is a big field within I*srael, they will all meet to see whose lie is the best lie, winner take all.
May they all lie in rest and be Left Behind so the rest of us can finaly have some peace and quiet that many thinkers wrote of within those writings but because of their ignorance and hubris were hid by them from rest of world.
Money is the root of all evil, or so they say, and power corrupts absolutly, well they earn, as a group just in Us, some 450 billion tax free dollars a year and that amount of money leaves them feeling that they absolutley are Gods Chosen ones and can buy all the power they need to prove it.
Once you are “saved” you will no longer question the plan of your “saved” masters, who somehow believe that they are not safe and must protect themselves with violence, lest they be crucified… because they know that if the second amendment had been around when Jesus was alive…
I’ve read several translations Bobbi Dykema Katsanis. Also I read the apocryphal texts and I’ve read some of the texts where parts of the patchwork philosophy came from and have seen some fragments almost word for word copied into the canonical OT texts. That just means to me the authors of the OT texts lived in their own age, were well read and learned. Which then means their own texts also belong in their own time.
Personally, I do not subscribe to the theory that Jesus really existed as a (historical) person. I see it as a made up character, a literary device with an appropriate cue name, most of his “story” being lifted out (midrash) of OT texts. Some believers see that as fulfillment of prophecies. Christian ideas were nothing original, key elements have been selected from older mythologies. Even later ideas that came into existence in the debate to suppress rival christianities, like for example the trinity, one of the least believable theological constructions, aren’t original to christianity. At the moment I’m trying to figure out whether the so called founder of islam actually ever existed. There seems to be fair ground to doubt that too.
Of course I know that my position isn’t exactly the most sympathetic and if you ask me I prefer “moderate” christians who fancy christianity to be peaceful and humanitarian and all that anytime, and these ideas are also ingredients of the texts, it isn’t quite a clear black and white picture of Hollywood dimensions, but I feel much for the argument that “moderate” christianity gives cover to fundamentalist or if you prefer extremist zealots, even if they are each others number one enemy, because they both see the other as the greatest danger to corrupting the most dear they hold.
Similar struggles, but much sharper and at the fringes much more violent can be seen inside the muslim world. Hinduism and buddhism also aren’t exempt.
There have been a number of really insightful and enlightening thoughts posted here. Thoughts precede actions. Where’s the action? Which of us will declare the revolution, and back up the declaration with action? Speaking the truth to power, without backing up the words with action, is worse than useless; it’s dangerous. Which of us will quit supporting the status quo with our tax money? Which of us will actually start or join an intentional community or organize our blocks into actual ‘neighborhoods,?’ Which of us will forgo that second income so that one parent can stay at home and home-school our kids, arming them, with truth and by example, for the long struggle that lies ahead? Which of us who are able financially to stay at home, will care for the children of single parents? Which of us will use the strong emotion engendered within us by the ideas, attitudes, and events that are destroying our social contract, to fuel ACTION? It’s way past time to take to the streets…and STAY there until truth and justice can be restored? Non-violent demonstrations will be taking place all over the US during the next few months. Join in if you can, but realize that it’s what happens AFTER the demonstrations, AFTER everyone has gone back home, that will determine how successful we will be at beginning the revolution. Re-read the Declaration of Independence, and listen to what it says to you today. Let’s hear from some of you about what you’re DOING…unless, of course, you have no FAITH in the possibility of real democracy, and ultimately, no FAITH in yourselves as empowered agents with free will and self-responsibility. Blessings to all.
Religion … religion’s got two major functions in human society.
The primary one used to be placating and controlling the natural world through entities and agencies called “spirits”, the unseen entities that brought plague and prey in equal measure, rain and drought …
The second one was acting as social cement, controlling the unruly and complementing the basic support functions of the hunter-gather existence.
The function of controlling the natural world seems much less relevant these days, because as it happens, we humans of the “West” have spent the last few centuries mastering some aspects of nature and assuming we’ve got the whole thing under control.
But as our world has grown smaller, and much more filled with other people, religion’s use as a social cement has grown, along with its flow-on effect, that of a social barrier to the others.
Hence the hatred/s. And it doesn’t matter who is hating who. It’s always easier to blame “them others” than to think hard as to why, and offer a suggestion as to why not?
But the second choice offers more possibilities, and much more hope.
Speaking of the Left Behind series, I found this site:
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/index.html
You might like to take part in its comments.
“rebelnow August 22nd, 2007 2:07 pm
“..the Rapture is not a viable exit strategy.”, true enough, but it sure as hell is a viable “entrance” strategy, seems to be working quite fine for that! Who said they want an exit strategy? Today Iraq, tomorrow Iran, then?…. Ashes, ashes, we all fall down! ”
I don’t think it’s either ‘exit’ or ‘entrance’ strategy; it appears to be one or the other to some or various people, but there’s a lot more to all of the warring than apocalyptic religious beliefs.
That “stuff” is all mainly used for purpose of distraction, because the real war makers and profiteers don’t want to be exposed, and they know that all of these so-called “end times” “Christians” are NOT but what Jesus called ‘false prophets’, and are profitably useful. So, to be as little obvious as they can possibly ensure for themselves, the top rulers, war makers and profiteers, like having noise makers, attraction or attention grabbers, and therefore distractors like the Christian lunatics referred to in the article and who clearly are NOT really Christian.
Sure, some of the team of the top war makers and profiteers may indeed be of these lunatic “Christians”, but they’re not representative of all of these people.
Highly recommended as a MUST READ is this book (Dip. by Decep., by J.C., 1998), for which the PDF is downloadable via this Google.ca search link.
Carefully reading that book, people will learn of what is really going on in terms of the non-obvious; what is not happening on stage in front of our eyes and for us to see and hear, i.e., witness or observe, etc. I’ve only read up to and including chapter 5 so far, but am very glad to have come across the book (for the first time just a few days ago) and highly recommend it. It really should be treated as a MUST READ.
( Btw, in case any readers of this download and read this book, and like it enough to create a html copy from the PDF and for posting publicly, I suggest visting the author’s website and reading his coypright notice, before posting copies. The website is very easy to find with a simple Web search, or, and while I’ll omit clearly giving the url here, in case WordPress or CD again censors another post of mine, the url is his last name with ‘300′ appended and completed with .com. He strictly forbids posting of his books, without permission anyway.
I don’t know how ‘fair use’ applies in this kind of case (a book), one way or another, or at all; but I figure that PDF download links posted publicly are not the same thing as posting the contents of the PDFs. )
People should be able to easily enough see, with reading this above book, that the religious zealots, the [false prophet] “Christian” Zionists and the similarly false “Jewish” counterparts, evidently are mostly stage show distraction, more than anything else; and profitably useful [dumb animals], to boot, for extra “icing”.
I definitely despise those religiously heinous, lunatic, psychopathic, etc., people, particularly their ways and statements, and them trying to influence govt; but I intuitively know that they’re not the worst part of all of this, and that is that part that REALLY BOTHERS me MOST, much more. After all, if it wasn’t for the latter, the real and secretive rulers, then the religious nutcases wouldn’t even have a stage to act like goons on and from which they can distract the mass public.
Part of the art of deception is the minimally occasional use of the tactic known as distraction, diversion. I think we can all agree on that, and that pretty much everyone has heard of this art and tactic; yet too few people seem to have learned to critically keep this deception tactic carefully in mind when analysing circumstances in which deception may actually be an element.
Dip. by Decep., that is, diplomacy employs the “art of deception(s)”.
It’s strongly involved with respect to the North American Union and the SPP, definitely including what Bush, Harper and Calderone have already said and will or may additionally say about their totally secret talks Aug. 19-21. It’s all secret, and all verbal, not documented, as says this article. The NACC headed by 30 top corporate elite and some advisers very much decide what will and will not be with the SPP.
That’s again about big business, and natural resources is definitely one of the big industries involved.
They always figure that the best strategy for them is to fill us in only on an “as need to know” basis, and to make sure that that means us knowing as little as possible.
Elementary.
the bible is full of violence. this is business as usual for christianity. the god in the bible is the biggest mass murderer in the history of mankind. how can anyone worship him-her- whatever. personally i do not believe in violence…. do you?
And Christian’s really wonder why American’s are developing a bad attitude toward their religion!
They’re not christians they’re cultists. They gave up their free will. Muslim extremists are not any different.
Anyone out there sick of these people?
Where is science?
Where is tolerance?
Where is the enlightenment?
Violence should always be the last resort. But people are allowed to defend their rights.
Let’s not forget the origin of Christianity as we now know it. Emperor Constantine and his historian/propagandist Eusebius cyinically used a meteorite event as an excuse to become Christians and take charge of the religion. They organized the Council of Nicea to carefully censor and rewrite the Bible into a useful tool for political purposes.
Under the Romans, Christianity became a top-down control system in which the slaves were brainwashed into believing that as long as they didn’t make trouble in this world, no matter how bad things got for them they would have eternal bliss in Heaven. All emphasis was placed on the miraculous birth and miraculous resurrection of Jesus while all other aspects of his teachings were swept under the table, particularly the ones about the rich selling all they own and giving it to the poor.
If you want to see what Christianity could have been, read the Gospel of Thomas.
Money and religious fanatics of all ilks are the root of all evil. It is truely incredible how religious zealots, regardless of faith, think they’re somehow making the world a better place by preaching their intolerance of anyone or any idea that differs from their restricted world view. It’s not only disgusting, it’s going to be the end of us all.
Gandhi summed up the Christian religion:
“I like your Christ. Your Christians I do not like. They are so unlike your Christ.”
If Heaven is to be full of these people, I’ll be QUITE relieved to go elsewhere.
If Jesus were alive today, the first thing He’d do is change His name.
Peace to you and yours.
Obeiwan, and Godless rant– Christianity is a non-violent religion. The New Testament goes against all the violence in the old. And when Jesus says he turns son against father etc. it is because the new way of peace and non-violence goes so against the religions of the day and human nature in general. At one point Jesus says, forget an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, if someone strikes you turn the other cheek. At another time he says all you have to know is do unto others as you would have done to yourself. Humans just have the ability to pervert ANYTHING.
here’s a question: why don’t all you “peace-loving” Christians change your name to something else? “Jesus people” or something. so that the rest of us can tell the diff b/n the vast majority of apocalyptic cult fantasists and the slim minority who claim to follow the “true jesus.”
The Christian right is well on its way to establishing a theocracy in America. Their forward thrust is greatly underestimated. Americans are the most religious people in the modern western world and they are constantly dumbing down if this is possible.
“God’s Warriors”
by: Chritiana Amanpour
The third and last part of this 3-night series will be on CNN tonight at 9:00 pm, eastern time.
Tuesday was “Jewish” Fundamentalist Warriors
Wednesday was “Muslim” Fundamentalist Warriors
Thursday, TONIGHT, will be “Christian” Fundamentalist Warriors
Armanpour did a lot of research on this series and it is well worth seeing.
Americans may be the most religious people but they are because they are afraid to die because they do not practice their religion.
People who say they are religious are usually the evilisest people you will meet.
While people who say they do not practice religion but are good people are the nicest.
Hypocrites each and every one of them.
if your relationship with your god is supposed to be a personal one, what is the purpose of organized religion?
did the “christian freedom packages” contain a supply of crystal meth, the the phone # number of a good gay “masseuse”?
“At another time he says all you have to know is do unto others as you would have done to yourself.”
What if a person hates themselves?
Gail, I’ve been watching the series and it is quite good. I have to work tonight so I will miss the “Christian” episode. I might catch snippets of it while at work though.
Good point jdpst44. The Golden Rule is really utter nonsense because it presupposes that everyone wants the same things.
Imagine Person A who loves to sit in a quiet corner and read and Person B who becomes a neurotic mess when there’s no one to talk to. If Person B applies the Golden Rule to Person A there will be conflict, not harmony.
Or, to take things to an extreme, picture a masochist attempting to apply the Golden Rule to everyone they meet.
Even the Reverse Golden Rule of Asian philosophy suffers the same defect. The only rule of this type that would work is “Do unto others as they would be done unto.”
Brilliant and painfully funny commentary.
One minor point that has not been addressed.
The Bible and the “Christian” institutions of Europe evolved over a long and bloody period of time following the fall of the Roman Empire. When the Romans lost physical military control they devised a system of politically motivated mind-control for the benefit of an aristocracy not unlike America’s current oligarchy.
Bush and the turd blossom have raped the working poor Christian voters convincing slaves to vote for their masters.
Organized religion, as opposed to sincere spirituality, is a method of crowd control. Just another way to lead the sheep to the slaughter while picking their pockets.
A curious Iraq war crime detail is that Iraqis incinerated by the burn of a depleted uranium round are affectionately called “crispy critters” by Christian soldiers, not unlike those burned at the stake during the inquisitions.
Pray for peace !
At the risk of just “pssing in the wind” as normvincent put it above, I am going to quote godlessrant and make a couple of comments:
godlessrant says that Christianity is not a peaceful religion and folks are just fooling themselves and quotes the following:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36)
I came not to send peace, but a sword. … A man’s foes shall be they of his own household.”
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
As I understand this verse, Christ was telling his followers that people would reject them and hate them when they became Christians and decided to follow Christ. Jesus constantly uses the word “sword” throughout the Bible. The “sword” he is referring to here is the rift in a family caused by putting a belief in Christ first, ahead of even loyalty to family. It does not mean that Christ wants you to kill your mother or your daughter-in-law with a sword.
Also, if you will notice, there is a verse in Hebrews Chapt 4:
12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This means that the word of God will permeate your very being and convict one and change one even as a sword plunges and cuts. Sometimes things are literal in the Bible and sometimes they are figurative. One can usually figure out which is which by studying and comparing scripture with scripture and not take the verse out of context.
So, yes, Christ is a “sword” in that he causes conflict. But anyone who follows a particular philosophy that requires your whole-hearted attention, is going to have problems with family members who want to be put first or have other ideas about how one should be spending one’s time, life and to whom one gives one’s loyalty.
Even at the Battle of Armaghedden, which is much spoken of these days and probably with reason, it says that all the armies of the world will converge against Israel on the plains of Megeiddo–don’t hold me to the spelling (but this where the term “Armagheeden” comes from)–Christ arrives to do battle with the Anti-Christ and his armies–so this is the Second Coming:
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
So, while this seems pretty darn brutal, this is, afterall, the Anti-Christ (beast) and his armies and if you read the history of this, Anti-Christ has beheaded people (the Guillotine is back in action) and killed the followers of Christ right and left (no pun intended). Christ has come to set things straight, punish the guilty, save the innocent. The false prophet is a great spiritual leader who deceives the people of the earth into following Anti-Christ by causing miracles and pointing people to worship Anti-Christ by calling Anti-Christ the Messiah.
Rant also mentions Noah and the great flood. However, if you will look at the context of that, it saddened God and he was sorry that he had made man because man had become so wicked and the scriptures associated with that, said that God felt compelled to wipe out man BECAUSE HE HAD BECOME SO VIOLENT ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH KILLING AND KILLING AND DESTROYING. Now, how ironic, you might say, that God killed because people were violent. Yes, but the Bible is filled with paradoxes, but that doesn’t mean that it is not consistent. For example, it is really freaky that a few verses above that, we find that some sort of beings had intermarried with human women and had produced weird people–giants –maybe the Titans? Hell, I don’t know. Anyway, it looks like some sort of DNA problem was going on and it was thought best for mankind that these be wiped out. I don’t know, I’m not an expert. But I just want you to realize that there was more going on here than just a desire for God to make happy and kill folks.
And as for all those who think they are doing the will of Christ by being mean to others and murdering others and doing freaky stuff in the name of Christ, he realized this and warned about it and told them to look out for the day of judgment:
Matthew Chapt 7:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And a bit further down in that same chapter, he says that he will divide people calling themselves Christians into his sheep and the goats. The sheep on the right because they did what was right and the goats go on the left to everlasting damnation.
Now, you will say again: how can God send someone to everlasting damnation? He won’t. The people who go to everlasting damanation can call on God at anytime–it is just that they don’t want to. In the Book of Revelation, it says that when stars are falling from heaven and all kinds of end-of-world weird stuff is going on, these same people will shake their fist at God=–sort of like Satan in Milton’s Paradise Lost–and curse Him. Satan says: tis better to serve in hell on one’s feet than in heaven on one’s knees.
A lot of folk believe that, and you gotta admit Satan’s character in Paradise Lost is a heck of a lot more interesting than the one Milton calls “the only begotten Son of God” who comes across as not very interesting and kind wimpy.
But this is just my take. If I’m pissing in the wind, so be it.
Not too bad Holymoly.
Not bad at all!
Adamslp:
I will try to address the statements directed at me, as I am afraid that you have mistaken me and my intent:
“You know nothing about Judaism.” - You are probably right to a degree. I haven’t spent very much time studying the Judaism. Nor do I purport to know that much. I am primarliy concerned with philosophy.
“The Jews brought morality and spirituality onto this earth precisely because they clung to the law.” - You are absolutely right there as well. Although I would argue that they are not the only people to bring morality and spirituality to the earth. Each culture develops morally/spiritually as necessitated by its environment. That the Jews were constantly persecuted by their neighbors is a hight crime, and has hightened to a degree the moral/spiritual acuity of Judaism, IMO. “They were not slave to the law.” - I never said that they were.
“You people [you people? I’m just one free-thinking guy here. you people sounds rather pejorative, n’est pas?] pretend that the Hebrew scriptures are a part of your bible [it sure as sh** ain’t my Bible, just another book in my library], but then you claim that it means nothing. The fact is that they were only included as part of your bible [see above] as an attempt to use them as “proofs” to try to convert Jews [I’m not interested in converting anyone to anything, I come from a long line of agnostics. What I am concerned with is philosophy i.e. the love of wisdom]. The new testament, however stands alone and nothing in the Jewish scriptures predicts Jesus. [I agree, the notion that Judaism is some sort of prelude to Christianity is one of the greatest cultural swindles of human history]. However, everything that Jesus taught was already part of the law. [disagree strongly, Christ came to overthrow. As another poster noted, he came with the sword. He told his followers to deny mother and father (tradition) and follow him.] He taught nothing new…” - uhhh, then how come Christianity is so different from say, Judaism. How come Jews don’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, just asking.
“Jesus was not g-d.” - Never said he was. “Perhaps even the legitimate heir to the throne.” - I am aware of this hypothesis, developed at length by the great scholar and poet Robert Graves. The fact of the matter is we are discussing a person for whom no tangible historical record exists. Please also remember that there were many would-be Messiah’s at this period in history.
As for the notion that the Romans killed Christ, sorry but historical and philological evidence shows that the Romans merely handed him over to the Sanhedrin for punishment by his own people. You are correct that the Romans held the Jews in utter contempt. So much so that they couldn’t bothered to pass judgment on such affairs. Pontus Pilate said “What is truth?” and washed his hands.
From the vehemence of your post I assume you take me for some sort of anti-Semite, and a Christian, to boot. I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Again, I think you have mistaken me, sir.
I need to leave this country where the hell is my passport……..any country (with nice weather and beaches) want to take in an American refugee???
I didn’t sign up for this Judeo-Christian military corporate facist neocon nonsense wtf I am beggining to forget what the country was like before this shit.
Adamslp says:You people pretend that the Hebrew scriptures are a part of your bible, but then you claim that it means nothing. The fact is that they were only included as part of your bible as an attempt to use them as “proofs” to try to convert Jews. The new testament, however stands alone and nothing in the Jewish scriptures predicts Jesus. However, everything that Jesus taught was already part of the law. He taught nothing new as he drew from the tradition from which he was raised.
Well, Adamslp, I don’t PRETEND that the Hebrew scriptures (OT) are a part of my Bible—they are, and the New Testament (NT) is validated and a continuance of the OT, in my view, and I will tell you why I believe this.
Can we both agree that the Jewish people were looking for a Messiah? Why were they expecting one? Wasn’t He predicted by the Prophets? In fact, at times, they were often expecting TWO Messiahs—now why is that? If they were expecting one, then our question is not did the Old Testament predict JESUS but did JESUS fulfill the expectations of the Prophets of the OT? Does Jesus fit the description of the Anointed One—The Christ?
For example, let us begin with David, who, I believe, was a King AND a prophet. In the 2nd Psalm David, who has been promised that the Messiah will come through him, is writing, I believe, about a future time when Messiah rules from Zion:
Palm 1: Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
[2] The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
[3] Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
[4] He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
[5] Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
[6] Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
[7] I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
[8] Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
[9] Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
[10] Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
[11] Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
[12] Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Now, if you wish, you are free to believe that David is talking about himself here. David may be referring to himself as “the Son” whom “this day the LORD has begotten.” You are free to believe that he will break the heathen with a “rod of iron” and “dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” You are free to believe that “Kiss the Son” is David holding out his royal hand, but David just didn’t seem like that kind of guy. No, David is talking about someone else—someone pretty special. Someone who is going to rule the world in righteousness. Someone who he has been looking forward to for