US Show of Force in Gulf Alarming: Afghan Paper
KABUL - A U.S. navy show of force on Iran’s doorstep is “greatly alarming” for the region and the United States risked a bloody quagmire if it invaded Iran, a state-run Afghan newspaper said on Saturday.
A large flotilla of U.S. ships entered the Gulf on Wednesday in a dramatic show of military muscle, adding to pressure on Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions, which the West says are an attempt to develop atomic weapons.
Afghan officials say privately a U.S. attack on neighboring Iran would further destabilize Afghanistan where U.S. and NATO troops are fighting a resurgent Taliban.
The English-language Kabul Times, which reflects the U.S.-backed government’s thinking, said Iran should drop its nuclear ambition and not be so stubborn.
“This is … greatly alarming news for the whole region lest American invaded Iran and create a blood bath of its people and another quagmire for itself,” the newspaper said in an editorial.
The U.S. show of force comes less than two weeks after U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney, speaking aboard a warship during a tour of the Gulf, said Washington would stand with others to prevent Iran gaining nuclear weapons and “dominating the region”.
The Kabul Times said Iran should not confront the United States.
“Diplomacy required that it should have abandoned its nuclear ambition … It is not a good policy for a relatively small country to be stubborn and militant against a super power,” it said.
Iran says it nuclear ambitions are for energy purposes only and its leaders have made clear they would not yield to pressure. Iran has also said it would resist any threat and give a “powerful answer” to its enemies.
© Reuters 2007.
This saber-rattling has been going on since the end of November last year.
The fifth fleet is based in Bahrain–about 3 blocks from where I was living while completing a consulting gig. The number of personnel on the based DOUBLED by the second week in December–and it was not, I am sure, because hundreds of sailors wanted to spend the holidays in Bahrain!
I left on the 22nd to spend mine back in Mexico. The place was crawling with sailors….
I can’t wait for the US to attack Iran. Then the civicaly ignorant, politically ambivilant American people can see what war is really like. Iraq hardly touches the lives of most Americans.
Iran has a regular military force of 600,000 men and at least 4 million in reserve. They have modern tanks, planes, helicopters, and a large navy. The could drive right across the flat open plains of Iraq. Who’s gonna stop them? Our paltry army of 120,000 men who can’t even stop a resistance movement? The Iraqi army? What army?
Even with our Air Force sorties, their tanks and men would be into the borders of Isreal before we could stop them. With their advanced anti-shipping missiles, they’ll sink at least one of our carriers. (That’s about 20,000 men in one shot).
Then Bush will throw a couple of tactical nukes which will spread fallout across Asia and piss of the Russians and the Chinese who will join the Iranians. North Korea will attack the South and every pudgy, lazy, selfish, American kid will be called up to military service.
Gas prices will rise to about 15 dollars a gallon and the economy will stagnate. Unemployment will rise to about 16 percent and Bush will declare his Emergency Powers.
That’s what they want and we’re just 1 (one) international incident away from that catastrophic scenario.
moonraven: By the end of November last year the warmongers knew, because of the elections, that their time was limited and they needed to step up their timetable.
Now, I’m not so naive as to believe that Novembers elections are going to bring peace, we’ve been shown already that that is a joke. What I DO see happening is the people’s will turning against this war (notice I specified THIS war) and they will eventually churn out a bunch that will end the war. They’ll probably screw us in innumerable ways while still being held in high esteem for doing it, but that’s how it works here so far, right? The warmongers see this trend too, and their agenda is big, so they had to make a move due to the now ticking clock. Oh, in all likelihood they have quite a few years left, but the clock is ticking nonetheless.
Flee: I’ve feared something very similar since late 2001, after it became apparent that GWB was going to use the wrecking ball approach to hammer in this particular nail, metaphorically speaking. I really thought that the Israel-Lebanon conflict was going to spark it, but I was wrong that time. I think world opinion turned enough against Israeli actions fast enough to stop it from blossoming. But to the point, I fear (but am not sure) that you are correct regarding the first part of your last sentence.
I am, however, certain that the last part of your last sentence is 100% spot on.
You know, I’ve seen you encourage people to expatriate the U.S. before, and I really feel your arguments, but my family got here in 1775. That’s a long time. 1775 my first (namesake) ancestor arrived here, and helped fight the American Revolution. I’m 9th generation American, my children are 10th generation American, and I think that’s significant in some way. I suppose it’s just silly emotionalism to have that really mean something to me, but it does. It speaks strongly to me, being a direct descendant of a first citizen of this 230 year government. However, having said that, I have indeed entertained thoughts of moving to, say, Windsor. I’m originally from S.E. Michigan, and now live in the southern U.S. I’d actually be close enough to my family there to take a Sunday drive to go visit my great-grandmother, instead of a 3 day vacation.
When it comes down to it, my decision really lies with the American people. As long as I can entertain hope that something will be able to snap them out of the fugue they are suffering I will stay. Seemingly daily though, events and realizations wear this patience and hope thinner. I do at times receive encouragement, the elections of last November (see my 2nd paragraph for my thoughts on that) gave me a little boost in my hope, and I’m the kind of person where a little hope can go a long way.
Maybe I am just naive, but if so at least I’m cynically naive.
I think you are right fleetocanada. The first step to trying to stop it is to dump the incompetent corporate whore Dems overboard and evolve a radical decentralist street resistance to the authoritarian American state. A resistance I would add that should be open to sincere Libertarian anti authoritarians, we are going to need everyone on the streets in the millions to stop the neo-cons and their Dem enablers.
neomunk, I think it’s cool that you can trace your bloodline back to your ancestors who came over here in 1775 but they ditched some frigging Country because they were fed up so I guess your leaving the U.S of A. would just be part of your family tradition of leaving when the ship is sinking.
I moved to Mexico two year ago with my two kids 8 and 10 years old. I am not sorry as my kids speak a second language and know that the U.S.A. is not the only lifestyle that is “good”. My kids have grandparents that live in England so they know that other people in the world live differently but have a good life.
Moonraven, I hope you didnt come to Mexico because of your love for civil rights because there aint none here. Mexico, while it is a fascinating place to live is far from being a “liberated” society.
Hootowl:
The majority of Americans 1) Do not know what is going on, and 2) journalism is no longer about reporting facts, but entertaining people long enough to get them to watch the commercials between the “news” segments, and 3) people are simply ambivilant about politics and foreign affairs (i.e, they don’t care).
The first problem comes from the fact that most people are civic illiterates. The average person no longer learns American history, or even knows the main tenets of our Constitution. Thus, they don’t understand how the government is set up to operate. The second issue comes from the fact that all media is now about ratings, so the goal is now to entertain, rather than inform. Talking heads blabber on and on and can say virtually anything. There are no longer teams of reports that chase down facts and leads. The first combined with the second means that a gullible public believes the BS spouted in the mainstream media.
The last one is easy. American individualism makes for a selfish people who care more about themselves than the community or the nation. It’s easy to fly a flag or put a bumber sticker on your car. Forget about attending municipal meetings, or writing your congressperson.
Until the majority of the public are clearly hurt by this administration’s actions, they don’t give a rat’s ass what is done to a Constitution that they have never read and don’t understand anyway.
Only when individual selfish Americans can no longer buy gas guzzling SUV’s and X-boxes and all that other consumer junk will they take to the street in rage.
That will not happen because a tiny insignicant portion of our citizenry dies on some far away battlefield. It will happen when our economy collapses due to a war with Iran, or when China calls in the debt we sold to them–the latter will most likely happen about the middle of the next Democratically-held presidency.
Flee - you’re right about China calling in our debt - and only last week I read that they’ve raised their lending rate. This could be the real beginning of the end for us.
Drex,
I have been living in Mexico for nearly 15 years–during which time I have,among other things, created theater works which deal with issues of human rights and recovering historical memory–presented by a theater group I formed in Emiliano Zapata’s birth village (which is where I live).
I would reckon to say that I am more aware of the abuse of human rights in this country than you are.
I guess gringos have a need to assume that other folks are as ignorant as they are?
Bush has used up America’s conventional forces in Iraq and as flee and other have pointed out Iran’s military isn’t the degraded forces of Saddam we attacked in 2003. Should the Navy be dumb enough to start an attack while bottled up in the Persian gulf we’d be lucky to loose only one carrier.
Terhan is at least 700 miles inland from any carrier launched aircraft and all of our allies in the Gulf have already refused to allow an attack on Iran to be launched from their airfields.
Because Terhan is so far inland if the U.S. does decide to attack Iran I think the first wave will be with ballistic missiles to minimize any warning so Iran’s political and religious leaders don’t have time to escape into Iran’s vast heartland. The ballistic missiles would also be tipped with nuclear warheads. (My gut says this decision has already been made, they’re just waiting for an excuse)
Also since Iran’s rugged shore line along the Straits of Hormuz is ideal for concealing Iran’s arsenal of anti-ship missiles the only tactic that I can think of to neutralize them would be to carpet nuke an area the size of Ohio along the Straits.
If Bush does decide to launch an attack of this nature America would become an openly outlaw nation, Bush would also go outlaw domestically.
Poor Afghanistan. Afghans have suffered 25 years as victims of war, civil war, terrorism, and invasion by 2 superpowers. They continue to suffer as Pakistan is funding the Taliban as it always did (probably from the 1 billion the US gives Musharaf from our tax dollars) and having the Mullah’s of Iran as their neighbors also meddling in Herat and other areas with the Afghan Shi’a population. So all the remaining money earmarked for Afghan reconstruction that hasn’t be siphoned off to Iraq (to pay Halliburton and other defense contractors) will again be siphoned off for a war with Iran further destabilizing the region. Poppy production is up and the country is again falling victim to the war lords tyranny.
Afghans should be alarmed as we have abandoned them yet again!
“Only when individual selfish Americans can no longer buy gas guzzling SUV’s and X-boxes and all that other consumer junk will they take to the street in rage.”
Except for a tiny minority of civic-minded and civil-minded Americans , that analysis sums the American public’s mindset of ignorance , denial and laziness.
Neomunk, my ancestors left the US for Canada in 1783. One fought with Butler’s Rangers and the rest with the King’s Royal Rangers of New York. I’ve never regretted their choice!
I bet many of us quietly join Flee in wishing for an attack on Iran, because it would be such a disaster and thus holds serious “I told you so” potential. But of course, we must resist that temptation. A new war would kill real people and consume real resources. Let’s instead keep it from happening, even though all the idiots that want it to happen might not fully learn the error of their ways.
FleetoCanadaNow May 26th, 2007 3:19 pm
“Until the majority of the public are clearly hurt by this administration’s actions”
Oh, they’ll be hurt alright, the question is whether they’ll assign any blame where it’s due. There are many devotees of nationalistic, reactionary ideologies, and even though a large percentage of these folks would bear the brunt of the consequences, they’ll nevertheless pin the results (urged on, of course, by the reactionary noise machine) on the various right-wing bête noires. For others less committed to that worldview, the absence of insightful, power challenging reporting on the part of the mainstream media will suffice to keep them passive enough and uncritical enough not to follow the chain of evidence where it leads.
alarming? I would be terrified. The dominant military machine on the planet is arbitrary, bloodthirsty, and ruthless. Does anybody think they have moral reservations about using nuclear weapons?
neomunk,
My family came to the U.S. in 1815, fought for the South in the Civil War, and for the Union in just about every war after that.
Last year I moved my wife, daughter, and cat to the Philippines. We used the housing bubble to cash out and start businesses here. What was a little bit of money in the U.S. is a lot of money here.
The U.S. is not in decline, it is falling. Nothing will stop it. The question is will it be a soft landing like Great Britain managed or disaster like the Roman Empire. My gut tells me the latter. You have double digit inflation and unemployment, negative GDP, and the largest debt of any country in history. It cannot be fixed, only survived.
We have had a tough go leaving everything an starting a new life, but we have NEVER once regretted out decision.
The comments are all believable.
Sometimes as I was growing up, I wondered if we’d see fascism in America. This is astonishing.
But — what does it matter when anyone got here?
Do we forget that the Western Europeans didn’t “discover” anything? That this land belongs to the native Americans and in 500 years we’ve absolutely destroyed it and possibily the entire planet — and possibly even begun to pollute the universe with nuclear weapons?
Not to mention that much of this continent was peopled by “Mexicans.”
We’re all visitors here; basically guests who long ago overstayed their welcome.
It isn’t unusual now to hear people talk about leaving America. Mexico, Phillipines, Ireland.
I’m guessing that these are people crazy enough to threaten the entire world. I don’t disagree that they would use nuclear weapons. We have troops in just about every nation.
Americans have to begin talking person to person about the perils of capitalism and coporatism — and even private property. Do we want our military converted to private hands? Our water? Our seeds? There are limits to the concept of “private property” and there should be. We have to return to the concept of commonwealth. I’ve never seen Mother Nature or the Creator’s signature on a Deed of Transfer.
The only way land can be privately owned is through theft –
and that’s the way this continent was taken and much more.
How can so many of us understand the full threat of what is happening in our nation and yet feel so unable to fight back?
Global Warming, of course, is the final threat to all of us and anything else is really just “distraction.”
Watch what you wish for, ‘FleetoCanada.’
It’s easy to offer blood-curdling scenarios from the sidelines. They don’t cost you anything. But others might pay heavily.
I’d suggest that all solutions and formulas that envision expanding the slaughter of innocents, nukes and invasion, and expanding suffering even more, are wrong from the git-go. This is the idle chatter of ‘radical’ dilettantes, not the planning of any serious leftist or progressive with the interests of ordinary folks at heart.
To be sure, Americans have their shortcomings. But here in Chicago, we put immediate withdrawal from Iraq on the ballot last November, and it got 800,000 ‘Yes’ votes, up to 90 percent in the Black wards, but even 55 percent in the most conservative white wards, 81 percent to 19 percent overall.
A majority knows full well this war is wrong, but so far find themselves powerless to end it. The key leadership of the two parties are wedded to Big Oil. Our election laws are the most reactionary in the modern world, making it difficult to put decent people in power in critical numbers.
We’re working to turn things around, day in and day out, in the streets and everywhere else.
But the post above calling for a ‘radical decentralist street revolution’ involving ‘millions’ had better learn how to count, which, along with a radical vision, is required for doing politics of any sort, anywhere.
I’m not whining. I’ve no time for it. But this radical chic posturing should embarrass you, if you even take your own words seriously.
noiraqwar-chicago (dot) org
I agree with you completely Carl Davidson. Wishing for an invasion of Iran just to prove a point is ridiculous. As for the this labelling of Americans as ignorant, ill informed, ambivalent or whatever, I have seen the same complaint from people in Germany, South Korea, England and Canada too! The lack of political involvement by the general populace is a universal phenomena and not an abnomaly solely associated with the U.S.
To make even the smallest adjustment to the politcal machinery is a huge undertaking, however it is not impossible. These ‘chats’ alone are enough to show me that many, many Americans are not only aware of the problem but anxious to find a solution.
There are some very sick bastards in the Pentagon who love to use fear and intimidation. These barbaric monstrosities think that might makes right. They are in such desperate need of mental health care, that they are not bothered at all when thousands of little children and women get killed and crippled in their conquests and military exercises. To them, killing, crippling, horrifying, and torturing other human beings is fun.
Every penny spent for the so called “department of defense” is a horrible waste of money.
Let’s shut it down. Progressives should support Kucinich, the only candidate who’s called for the creation of a Department of Peace.
http://betterworld.net/peacedepartment/
Elizabeth Kucinich interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJtp1KzVBdg
PLEASE PLEASE DON’T COME TO CANADA,
THE AMERICANS RUIN EVERTHING THEY TOUCH.
Your post is funny, Damien.
Scandinavian individualism is much better than the American kind, because their societies actually value individuals and allow them to fully express and come into their own.
To stop this unhealthy appetite toward wars and Balkanization , that the USA seems to feed eagerly through war video game and an endless love-affair with all weapons(History Chanel) to its citizens provides an eskewed reality of what war is like to our children and “young adults” where they eagerly plunge head-first providing support for actions that they later seem to regret when reality somehow intrude in their rosy predictions of victory, upsetting their lofty perceptions albeit self-created, we must turn our backs on militarism as a source of national pride. We must practice the democracy we preach, defend the humans rights we are said to “defend”, really mean it when we say “for the people by the people”, and truly separate church and state.
I posted this thought once before, and now it is even more relevant. All one has to do is to search for US Air Bases and identify those near Iran. Then factor in both the 5th fleet in the Gulf and the troops stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan. With the exception of Pakistan (our ally) and a few former Soviet republics, Iran is surrounded by our forces.
We justified our involvement in places like Nicaragua (Iran-Contra), attempted Castro assasinations, and now attempted Hugo Chavez over-throws because that region is “within our sphere of influence”. We feel we have a right to do such actions.
Iran should have the same right. Being surrounded by a nation that has already determined them to be the enemy puts any actions they wish to take in another country (Lebanon?) as within THEIR sphere of influence.
If I were an Iranian citizen, I would have the government by the cajones demanded WMDs as SOON as possible. But then all they should have to do is go to Syria to get them. Didn’t we claim at one time that Saddam’s WMDs were “spirited” away to that land for safe keeping? If or when Iran has such toys, they will not hesitate in using them–no more than we would if we were invaded.
We get off their borders, I’m sure they will be more than willing to talk. We stay, and we are the threat to the region, not Iran.
alexnosal… department of peace? it sounds so rightwing. What will it be next…Dept. of vice and morality?
STOP GIVING BAD ADVICE!!!!!!!!
Chuckles, jejejejeje
Moonraven,
I’m not sure why you have a burr under your saddle. You can call me a “gringo” if you wish (I suppose your are not one eh?) but it doesnt change the fact that civil rights in Mexico are few to non-existant. Its like every area of Mexican living such as ecology, pollution, fishing, etc. there are all kinds of laws governing these things but there is little or no enforcement. If a builder wants to build and he needs to tear out a protected mangrove area a few million pesos gets the job done. Now you can point to the fact that this happens everywhere but it is not a flagrant as here by half. If a group pisses off the Federales they disappear or get shot.
In general if one pays attention to their own business down here life is fine. You can create theater groups, buy sell land and no problem. Get involved in cleaning up the drug problems or other politics-you got big problems
DONT LEAVE, STAY
If America need something now is civic-consciouss people like you!!! America need you NOW more than ever.
I am a chilean that was studying in the US not long ago. After Bush’s lies started to made me sick (I mean physically… or psychosomatically ) I knew it was time to migrate again. Attracted by the new superpower (the united states of europe) I went to France. Ironically I got here just to see a pro-Bush neoliberal being elected. moral of the story: Leaving is not the answer. Do AS MUCH AS YOU CAN NOW that is still possible. America and the world need you there. I wish i was american so I can have the right to vote or do something about it but i cant…but YOU CAN. so please do something for the world’s sake. We still have some time left!
Like a few post above suggested I also believe that only when the vast majority of americans become personally affected by this war (gas prices way up, eventual obligatory military draft etc) they will wake up to the barbarities done by those who represent them. After Bush was reelected I totally lost hope that things will get better. After the democrats gained majority my hopes were up again. that didnt last long. What is the point of being majority if they serve the same interest?
Of course this barbarism did not started with Bush and it is not going to finish when he is gone. As a chilean born during the dictatorship of CIA-sponsored Pinochet I am sure of it. American intervention in other countries businesses is a long american tradition done by democratss and republican. Bush has only taken it a few bloody steps further.
I really hope there is no war with Iran…. but again my hopes are crushed again and again …William Blum knows better…Killing Hope
With all of our military might flexing their muscles in the middle east who is here protecting us from attack?
How arrogant our administration has become, clearly we have not learned from history.
Hootowl( said it all)theres no use in me saying it again.Is all lost, is there no stopping this insane bunch thats running this Goverment?Our numbers are to low to do anything about it.I’m sure we will all keep trying so we can say we tried.Doesn’t that just suck?
As i think more about what Hootowl posted, just post that on all the discussions on common dreams it seems to fit them all,doesn’t it?
Welcome to Europe. A positive, liberal American mind and a liberal European society make a great match. Several of my friends moved to Europe over the last years. They have benefited and Europe too. My friends take now longer holidays and get up later in the morning. The working craze has been partly replaced by more leisure and their income has not suffered. In fact I haven’t met any Republican travelling in Europe since years, so either they are not coming or they are travelling under disguise.
Drex, I do not allow myself to be saddled, so no burrs there.
I just think it’s funny that the minute a gringo crosses the border to Mexico he is immediately an expert on the country and its people. Most of you guys don’t even bother to learn the language–much less conduct community theater programs or teach in it.
Perhaps because I am a Native American from the Mohawk Nation (despite being a US citizen), I do not have the need to do the Gringo Dance and tell everybody how to do everything like they do it in the US of assholes? Quien sabe….
Fascism knows no boundaries!
“goingcoming” has put the situation is such finite terms: “Fascism knows no boundaries!” When a wino on the streets of NYC says he talks to god, we put him in a holding tank. When the whelps of the rich say it, we elect them as commander in “current occupant.” Semper Fi, RVN 67-68 USMC; “? entendo Moonraven.”
“That’s what they want and we’re just 1 (one) international incident away from that catastrophic scenario.”
Fleetocanada, you are right about that one, and I bet you a ounce of gold (pretty usefull in the times to come) that it will happen in France so that our newly elected neo-con president can drag the french people into this chaos. Or maybe it will be Germany, in either case, both countries will play on their respective solidarity to join forces and go attack whoever caused that incident (probably Iran). This is just to easy.
Now, I have fled to Switzerland…
The US condemnation of Iranian Nuclear Power Projects is racist.
I wonder how it would go over if the USA demanded that no black people have nuclear power either?
The oil is going to run out eventually, and it would be nice to for the iranians to have some power to operate their high rises.