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The Banality of Bush White House Evil
We don't like our evil to be banal. Ten years after Columbine, it only now may be sinking in that the psychopathic killers were not jock-hating dorks from a "Trench Coat Mafia," or, as ABC News maintained at the time, "part of a dark, underground national phenomenon known as the Gothic movement." In the new best seller "Columbine," the journalist Dave Cullen reaffirms that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were instead ordinary American teenagers who worked at the local pizza joint, loved their parents and were popular among their classmates.
On Tuesday, it will be five years since Americans first confronted the photographs from Abu Ghraib on "60 Minutes II." Here, too, we want to cling to myths that quarantine the evil. If our country committed torture, surely it did so to prevent Armageddon, in a patriotic ticking-time-bomb scenario out of "24." If anyone deserves blame, it was only those identified by President Bush as "a few American troops who dishonored our country and disregarded our values": promiscuous, sinister-looking lowlifes like Lynddie England, Charles Graner and the other grunts who were held accountable while the top command got a pass.
We've learned much, much more about America and torture in the past five years. But as Mark Danner recently wrote in The New York Review of Books, for all the revelations, one essential fact remains unchanged: "By no later than the summer of 2004, the American people had before them the basic narrative of how the elected and appointed officials of their government decided to torture prisoners and how they went about it." When the Obama administration said it declassified four new torture memos 10 days ago in part because their contents were already largely public, it was right.
Yet we still shrink from the hardest truths and the bigger picture: that torture was a premeditated policy approved at our government's highest levels; that it was carried out in scenarios that had no resemblance to "24"; that psychologists and physicians were enlisted as collaborators in inflicting pain; and that, in the assessment of reliable sources like the F.B.I. director Robert Mueller, it did not help disrupt any terrorist attacks.
The newly released Justice Department memos, like those before them, were not written by barely schooled misfits like England and Graner. John Yoo, Steven Bradbury and Jay Bybee graduated from the likes of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Michigan and Brigham Young. They have passed through white-shoe law firms like Covington & Burling, and Sidley Austin.
Judge Bybee's résumé tells us that he has four children and is both a Cubmaster for the Boy Scouts and a youth baseball and basketball coach. He currently occupies a tenured seat on the United States Court of Appeals. As an assistant attorney general, he was the author of the Aug. 1, 2002, memo endorsing in lengthy, prurient detail interrogation "techniques" like "facial slap (insult slap)" and "insects placed in a confinement box."
He proposed using 10 such techniques "in some sort of escalating fashion, culminating with the waterboard, though not necessarily ending with this technique." Waterboarding, the near-drowning favored by Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition, was prosecuted by the United States in war-crimes trials after World War II. But Bybee concluded that it "does not, in our view, inflict ‘severe pain or suffering.' "
Still, it's not Bybee's perverted lawyering and pornographic amorality that make his memo worthy of special attention. It merits a closer look because it actually does add something new - and, even after all we've heard, something shocking - to the five-year-old torture narrative. When placed in full context, it's the kind of smoking gun that might free us from the myths and denial that prevent us from reckoning with this ugly chapter in our history.
Bybee's memo was aimed at one particular detainee, Abu Zubaydah, who had been captured some four months earlier, in late March 2002. Zubaydah is portrayed in the memo (as he was publicly by Bush after his capture) as one of the top men in Al Qaeda. But by August this had been proven false. As Ron Suskind reported in his book "The One Percent Doctrine," Zubaydah was identified soon after his capture as a logistics guy, who, in the words of the F.B.I.'s top-ranking Qaeda analyst at the time, Dan Coleman, served as the terrorist group's flight booker and "greeter," like "Joe Louis in the lobby of Caesar's Palace." Zubaydah "knew very little about real operations, or strategy." He showed clinical symptoms of schizophrenia.
By the time Bybee wrote his memo, Zubaydah had been questioned by the F.B.I. and C.I.A. for months and had given what limited information he had. His most valuable contribution was to finger Khalid Shaikh Mohammed as the 9/11 mastermind. But, as Jane Mayer wrote in her book "The Dark Side," even that contribution may have been old news: according to the 9/11 commission, the C.I.A. had already learned about Mohammed during the summer of 2001. In any event, as one of Zubaydah's own F.B.I. questioners, Ali Soufan, wrote in a Times Op-Ed article last Thursday, traditional interrogation methods had worked. Yet Bybee's memo purported that an "increased pressure phase" was required to force Zubaydah to talk.
As soon as Bybee gave the green light, torture followed: Zubaydah was waterboarded at least 83 times in August 2002, according to another of the newly released memos. Unsurprisingly, it appears that no significant intelligence was gained by torturing this mentally ill Qaeda functionary. So why the overkill? Bybee's memo invoked a ticking time bomb: "There is currently a level of ‘chatter' equal to that which preceded the September 11 attacks."
We don't know if there was such unusual "chatter" then, but it's unlikely Zubaydah could have added information if there were. Perhaps some new facts may yet emerge if Dick Cheney succeeds in his unexpected and welcome crusade to declassify documents that he says will exonerate administration interrogation policies. Meanwhile, we do have evidence for an alternative explanation of what motivated Bybee to write his memo that August, thanks to the comprehensive Senate Armed Services Committee report on detainees released last week.
The report found that Maj. Paul Burney, a United States Army psychiatrist assigned to interrogations in Guantánamo Bay that summer of 2002, told Army investigators of another White House imperative: "A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful." As higher-ups got more "frustrated" at the inability to prove this connection, the major said, "there was more and more pressure to resort to measures" that might produce that intelligence.
In other words, the ticking time bomb was not another potential Qaeda attack on America but the Bush administration's ticking timetable for selling a war in Iraq; it wanted to pressure Congress to pass a war resolution before the 2002 midterm elections. Bybee's memo was written the week after the then-secret (and subsequently leaked) "Downing Street memo," in which the head of British intelligence informed Tony Blair that the Bush White House was so determined to go to war in Iraq that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." A month after Bybee's memo, on Sept. 8, 2002, Cheney would make his infamous appearance on "Meet the Press," hyping both Saddam's W.M.D.s and the "number of contacts over the years" between Al Qaeda and Iraq. If only 9/11 could somehow be pinned on Iraq, the case for war would be a slamdunk.
But there were no links between 9/11 and Iraq, and the White House knew it. Torture may have been the last hope for coercing such bogus "intelligence" from detainees who would be tempted to say anything to stop the waterboarding.
Last week Bush-Cheney defenders, true to form, dismissed the Senate Armed Services Committee report as "partisan." But as the committee chairman, Carl Levin, told me, the report received unanimous support from its members - John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman included.
Levin also emphasized the report's accounts of military lawyers who dissented from White House doctrine - only to be disregarded. The Bush administration was "driven," Levin said. By what? "They'd say it was to get more information. But they were desperate to find a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq."
Five years after the Abu Ghraib revelations, we must acknowledge that our government methodically authorized torture and lied about it. But we also must contemplate the possibility that it did so not just out of a sincere, if criminally misguided, desire to "protect" us but also to promote an unnecessary and catastrophic war. Instead of saving us from "another 9/11," torture was a tool in the campaign to falsify and exploit 9/11 so that fearful Americans would be bamboozled into a mission that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. The lying about Iraq remains the original sin from which flows much of the Bush White House's illegality.
Levin suggests - and I agree - that as additional fact-finding plays out, it's time for the Justice Department to enlist a panel of two or three apolitical outsiders, perhaps retired federal judges, "to review the mass of material" we already have. The fundamental truth is there, as it long has been. The panel can recommend a legal path that will insure accountability for this wholesale betrayal of American values.
President Obama can talk all he wants about not looking back, but this grotesque past is bigger than even he is. It won't vanish into a memory hole any more than Andersonville, World War II internment camps or My Lai. The White House, Congress and politicians of both parties should get out of the way. We don't need another commission. We don't need any Capitol Hill witch hunts. What we must have are fair trials that at long last uphold and reclaim our nation's commitment to the rule of law.



229 Comments so far
Show AllSioux Rose
Holistic health practitioners recognize the importance of diet. In popular parlance, "you are what you eat." The I Ching (hexagram 27/nourishment) explains that what we are is also the product of our "food for thought." A nation's psyche can be contaminated by beliefs and that IS the case in America. There are especially strong parallels, strands woven into the fabric of America's current consciousness that PROMOTE the banality of evil. Foremost, when religion champions war and creates a "faith basis" for rendering other "enemy," and when, as Eisenhower warned, the military like a gigantic vulture gets to fiscally feed off the carcass of what's left of the nation's financial estate, added to pornography, yes porn, that # 1 "product" selling so enthusiastically across the web. By sexualizing violence (remember the word in U.K that a certain dossier was "sexed up" to help massage the case for war in Iraq?) and perverting HEALTHY sexuality, psyches are in many ways destroyed.
Every healthy human being seeks love and a sense of belonging. Our spiritual natures long for the state of communion with Creator, or the great Beingness that is eternal.
The Biblical statement, "Let no man tear asunder what God hath joined together" carries a metaphysical analogy. I've spoken of Mars, god of war, as having a disproportionate influence over Western culture. This emphasis is strongest in America, the land that uses its blessed treasure for the destruction of other lands and their people. It's been statistically proven that the vast majority of casualties are innocent civilians. (And to the extent the cases for war are fixed, as Smedley Butler related, mostly to provide muscle to corporations in search of the assets of other lands, all then become innocent civilians since the very notion of enemy is a drummed up fiction to serve certain corporate interests.) The supreme weapon is the great bomb, and since its deployment over Nagasaki & Hiroshima, I believe a metaphorical unraveling of the fabric of creation, in terms of a breakdown in LOVING relationships between men and women, has escalated. The type of porn being proliferated completely degrades and denigrates women, and this would not be a big deal were it not the MAIN thing selling across the internet, POLLUTING the image of lovemaking, creating in many minds a belief that this is how women should be treated.
Without love, without a SACRED sense of the joining together of the male and female, the entire fabric of Creation unravels. That is why we see a LUST for exploding weapons, a nonchalance for the new unmanned drones/weapons of death delivery. This emphasis on Mars, which is the HEAD leaves the heart entirely out of the equation; and that helps explain why "professionals" with backgrounds in psychology (in theory, any with a medical background should be devoted to HEALING and HELPING others) can use their knowledge of the human psyche to engender acts that break it down.
The state of the earth, climate change, desecration of key ecosystems, pollution of the waters, species loss, reflect the moral bankruptcy of our times. Inasmuch a nature is seen as "the great mother," or Gaia, a feminine archetype of quintessential nurture (and nourishment), there is a grotesque but unmistakable parallel in seeing how MANY women are treated around the world. Sex slaves, mass rapes in Africa, high domestic abuse rates in the US, and this infusion of a mental diet of depravity into the collective psyches of millions of males who "consume" porn. A great debt to the Feminine is in evidence; and until men can face this monster, they will be effectively seduced by the mantras of Mars and lend their essences to the destruction of this planet, and all things that might otherwise be experienced as sacred, upon it.
well said.
Sioux Rose...
I agree about how pornography is eroding the values and relationships of those addicted to it, and " soft porn" unconsciously influences each of us as well... And I commend you for adressing this taboo issue on this forum...
I haven't read the book about porn, so perhaps the author adresses some of these next issues...
I am also aware that teenage girls and young women are the fastest growing demographic for porn addicts, as it becomes more acceptable in our society...
I believe that there is a difference between erotica which celebrates sexuality... And porn, which denigrates the men and women and children involved, whether they are the porn stars or the viewers...
Like many boys growing up in the 80's, everyone had a friend or brother or uncle or Step- dad with a stack of old playboy mags that they would peruse when their ladies weren't around... It was a veritable pubescent rite of passage...
In this hypocritical and puritanical society, where "sex ed" is a joke, many folks got their first look at genitalia through gentlemen's mags...
Unfortunately in the digital age, porn is free and abundant in all of it's grotesque forms... And it is not just for hormone laden teenage boys or perverted uncles anymore... Now with an infinite stream of videos and images at anyones fingertips, the modern day porn addict can waste their days perusing their fantasies, no matter how sick & twisted they are, someone has done it and someone else recorded it...
It is the new "drug", which leave's the "users" depleted of time, money, and "creative juices" to interact with other humans in ways to form meaningful relationships... It is the ultimate escape for the addict, and the perfect distraction for the masses perpetuated by the ruling elite...
It is a myth that all porn actors and prostitutes chose that lifestyle, like the sex-addict "porn star"... What is sad is that many if not most of the women and children in the porn industry are not there by choice, but are actually sex slaves addicted to coke and or heroin, with organized crime handlers/pimps managing their "careers" and keep the $$$$ for themselves... Many of the women & children come from war-torn or bankrupted countries like Serbia or Russia, who are promised a good job or new life in America or Europe, then are held as prisoners to work the "trades"...
Think about that... All those folks jerking off to Internet porn are probably witnessing the managed rape of some poor girl who is out of her mind (and probably out of her body) on drugs, after she was sold into sexual slavery...
this knowledge would just titillate some even more.
"Masturbation is having sex with someone I love very much." - Woody Allen
"I have a very active sex life; I just don't have a partner." - Joan Rivers
Is that all you got from my post? That some folks would get off on knowing that too? I don't give a shit about sadistic evil fucks like that...
Why even mention it?
My point is that pubescent kids and frat boys and adults who think porn is fine & dandy in the privacy of their own room or a victimless crime are actually contributing to the financing of not just the porn industry, but also organized crime through sex slavery and drugs...
While simultaneously desensitizing themselves to sex crimes and alienating themselves from healthy relationships...
Very true, Rose, and further is the reason for the seduction and subsequent 'witch hunt' mentality (and paranoia), where every man above a certain age is looked at with the suspicion of being a possible 'child predator' (i.e., your 'perverted' uncle). These things are all interrelated. Younger girls gaining carnal knowledge sooner along with unrestricted internet access has opened up Pandora's Box (no pun intended). Both the older male (as well as the younger male in a somewhat different arena) and the younger girl are being drawn into this vortex of obsession, and feeding the darker side of humanity, of which the sex trade is a part. Adding to the problem is that parents are (in my view) much too permissive with their children, either because they are too busy trying to meet everyday demands, or afraid to set limits (who wants to labeled a party pooper when all the other kids are allowed to do it?). The sex trade of impoverished children is about as hideous and grotesque as it gets. That being said, sexual morality cannot be legislated. And to complicate things even more, the age of consent varies from place to place, and period of history.
"Think about that... All those folks jerking off to Internet porn are probably witnessing the managed rape of some poor girl who is out of her mind (and probably out of her body) on drugs, after she was sold into sexual slavery..."
Yes, and those girls/women willingly participating in the business for financial gain (which we can expect to increase exponentially due to the shriveling economy). They are contributing to same darkness as well.
"Yes, and those girls/women willingly participating in the business for financial gain (which we can expect to increase exponentially due to the shriveling economy)." Chessgames56
Chessgames: How can you say they are "willingly participating" in prostitution, etc., when your next clause points to dire financial need as the motivator? That's just plain illogical. In fact, very few (if any) prostitutes work for fun; they work to feed themselves and often their children. One look at any streetwalker would show you the blank, tired, total lack of interest in the job other than stark financial necessity.
I used to walk through such a part of town to get to my university and I was struck by the way they would stand, arms folded over their chests, eyes lacking any interest whatsoever. When a curb-crawler pulled over they'd walk out with the same blank expression, exchange a couple of words in monotone, and get into the car.
Willingly participating? Well, I guess they chose it over their children starving . . .
Rainborowe
Perhaps there are those who feel they have no choice, but is this always the case? How about the stripper who loves manipulating men for money, on and off the stage? Women aren't always the innocent victim in this. That's all I was saying.
Are men really that pathetic? I really doubt that manipulating men is the prime or even secondary motive for either stripping or hooking, although it may be a tertiary one, given the likelihood of the women having been abused by men anyway.
But I thought we were talking about prostitution, not stripping. That's a game of a different order, if you'll forgive the pun.
Rainborowe
Wow, women are all innocent angels, while only men are the villains. YOU were talking only about prostitution, it seems, but there are different orders of 'prostitution,' no? Not all prostitutes are 'street walkers.' Some women use sex to make money because it is profitable, not because they have no other option. Now if you are a woman and have animosity toward men that is a different matter, but it does not belong in this discussion.
I bow to your superior knowledge of prostitutes.
Rainborowe
Sioux Rose
CHESSGAME: One of my thoughts was if any of the "directors" screen the men, in one case a young 22 year old had sex with SIXTY FIVE in one session! for Aids since it is anything but "safe" sex. Many of these young people are on drugs, most have been sexually abused, and I would wager they suffer from a covert form of Stockholm Syndrome. Moreso than whatever salary the females receive, what bothers me is that unstable men or insecure men see these images and get the idea that this is what "real" women want. That is one of the points made by Jensen in his research. Since rape is already common in the US and domestic abuse as well, these images only add to the degradation of real women.
I saw a documentary on "The Green River Killer," as this guy was actually married, but would kill women for sport and have sex with their corpses. He used porn. Obviously some stable men who find porn of interest (hopefully not the reall sick stuff Jensen wrote about) do not go out and rape; unfortunately those who are unstable and violent find in this medium motivation TO rape and kill. OURS is not a healthy society...
Right. And there are also religious believers who kill women for sport, and have sex with their corpses. Blame religion.
But wait. There are no doubt atheists who are the same.
Meat eaters. Clearly eating meat encourages a violent mindset.
But wait. There are vegetarians who engage in violent depraved acts too.
OURS is not a healthy society...
Indeed, it is an exceedingly unbalanced and therefore unhealthy--even insane-- society in so many ways.
"Younger girls gaining carnal knowledge sooner along with unrestricted internet access has opened up Pandora's Box (no pun intended)."
It is interesting that you single out girls here. Why only girls? Why is it that younger girls gaining carnal knowledge is a problem? Do girls not have the right to their bodies that boys do?
There is no such 'problem' outside of relationship. Of course men play a role in this, especially since they have access to these underage girls who are more sexually aware than were their counterparts years ago. Don't forget there is pornographic chat as well as images, and they both serve the same urges. There will always be erotic experimentation between both sexes, and perhaps all ages. It is interesting to note that the number of first time male sexual offenders is on the rise. Seemingly, some of these men are being drawn into this, the same way they have always been drawn to image-pornography. Possibly, it is more powerful due to the fact it is interactive and real-time. Add this to the fact that girls are sexually knowledgeable at a much younger age and you get the explosive situation we have now. And as a parent, I face challenges my parents could never have dreamed of. That is why my children do not have, nor will they ever have unfettered access to the internet.
Sioux Rose
duplicate post.
Sioux Rose
CHESSGAME: We are not talking normal sexual relations, but pushing the envelope to NORMALIZE exceedingly violent and debasing acts. Porn really creates darkness around sexuality, rather than beauty or an engagement between two persons recognizing the humanity in one another. Again, one would have to read Jensen's book to take in the magnitude of what's at stake here, and what's being undone in the way of a healthy basis for men and women to relate intimately.
RFLOH: Your limited logic limits your understanding, and I find your absence of empathy appalling. You might have a high conventional IQ, but to the extent the "emotional IQ" can be measured, you'd fail the test.
Unlike you, I refuse to submit to simplistic manichean definitions of male / female, masculine / feminine, good / evil that you so eagerly promote.
My absence of empathy? Hint, look in the mirror. Unlike you, I do not going around trying to impose my ideas of what is "normal" on consenting adults.
As a society we've become desensitized in so many ways that we can no longer distinguish between the vulgar and the cruel. In the US, many love war and violence, or believe it is the way to resolve issues. You know, we've got to FIGHT this or BATTLE that. Our very approach to resolution is violent. The New Age movement tells us there is no such thing as 'evil,' except that 'thinking makes it so,' but deep down in our hearts (if we are at all sensitive) we know different. People are so out of touch with their inner beings, they no longer believe there is a 'core' to discover and understand. Not only do we not know, we do not know that we do not know, and thus think we know. That's a big reason that things do not fundamentally change.
Sioux Rose
CHESSGAME: You are more patient than I am. Thank you for making an excellent case to the one so blind s/he cannot see. I am growing weary of duty at "this battle station."
Is that anything like Rumsfeld's knowing there were unknown unknowns affecting all of his decision making?
Sioux Rose
RFLOH: Although I find you morally & spiritually REPUGNANT, I have responded below!
Sioux Rose
GOLDEN: Thank you for contributing your insights to this discussion. What really upset me about Jensen's book is that there is an upping of the ante where NORMAL sex is not what people buy. The women are made to act like they LIKE being treated worse than 3rd world animals; and very UNSAVORY practices are involved.
Someone mentioned addition to porn, perhaps; but just as the decency laws were relaxed so that media could show sex scenes in the l970's, the complete lack of ANY form of decency standards pushes the bar and many people tend to copy what they see. It's really tragic, and I had no idea of the content or how pervasive this dark form of ugly titillation has become. Truly ghastly.
And who gets to define what is porn and what is erotica? You?
Well, since the US supreme court cannot even define porn, or differentiate it from erotica...
we are all free to make up our own working definitions for porn...
I shared my definition because it works for me...
I make no presumption that it is the "end all/be all" definition for everyone else...
Like all words, you are free to make up any definition you want...
As long as you don't try to impose your definition on everyone else.
Sioux rose...So well said. I might add a further sad note that our Christian based holier than thou nation, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC., is at at the lead in this denigration of the feminine mystique....
Sioux Rose
ANGRY: Thank you for your "affirmative vote." To the degree a society exalts the "virtues" of Mars/militarism is the degree to which it denigrates life and the life-giving feminine. I call that the Venus deficit factor.
Years ago when I read about: dowry murders in India (wives who had served their purpose tossed into the cooking fire), "honor" crimes in the Muslim world, clitorectomy (major practice!) in West Africa, domestic abuse rates in the U.S. (the # 1 reason women go to the hospital emergency room), gang rape in Africa, added to the sex slave trade... I had to write a script to encompass the pain in knowing all of these things. And now reading about the way porn is exploding due to the Internet and home video, and the CONTENT of it (I have no issue with sex on the big screen if both parties care for each other and show respect for the body as the temple it IS!) is SO damaging and degrading to women! The composite of these sins against women, added to the numbers of the dead and wounded left from the U.S. playing like teenage boys with weapons that are inordinately efficient in delivering the gruesome effect cleansed in language into the neat category of seemingly easily dimissed "collateral damage" are a testament to the disregard America expresses for LIFE. America is the banality of evil in its policies, and yet the depravity seen in the way women in these other cultures are treated goes to the great wound, the rupture between the genders, the chasm set between the intended Lovers of Eden. Religion of the patriarchal sort did this DELIBERATELY to disempower people. By setting up a premise of sin, the capacity for that level of true union that can lift both parties and lead to higher states of awareness and soul empowerment was disabled. WE are all witnessing the effects.
It is very rare for women to find men who truly love them and treat them as equals in every sense. The objectification of the female is once again being pushed by Hollywood, and to me that's soft porn. There can be no true and genuine respect for life as a HOLY equation, one worth preserving, until men understand (as a few of you in the forum thankfully do) that healing must begin at the primary level of union. Yesterday's article by the young soldier who had a spiritual epiphany about the meaning of his masculinity moved me to tears. It gave me hope. I see some men are waking up and abandoning the brotherhoods based on sworn allegiance to arms or the promise of violence... some are realizing there is more to manhood that Mars rules. My granddaughter's generation will potentially know the kind of union impossible at this time between the genders.
It's all about balance, Rose: the feminine and masculine. We have a very strange state of affairs now: the feminine is seeking to become more masculine, and visa versa. Balance is being sought devoid of understanding, which is creating further imbalances. Everything works within a triad of 'forces,' active, passive, and modifying. Psychologically and psychically, balance and harmony is always sought. This is an immutable Law. Mankind has a choice, and probably does not have much longer to make it: either understand and harmonize with our inner and outer nature (really, a singular movement) or be destroyed (in this case, meaning destroy ourselves). We stand at an unparalleled precipice in the history of our race.
Chessgames: "We have a very strange state of affairs now: the feminine is seeking to become more masculine, and visa versa."
This is a very strange assertion. I have absolutely no notion that I am "seeking to become" the opposite sex. I am what I am and it's pretty well what I have always been, but for the decline in sex hormones brought about by age.
The truth is that we all have attributes which have traditionally been assigned to one sex or the other, some more "masculine" and some more "feminine." But even those assignments are arbitrary and at least partially a function of our culture. Don't forget that, among other societies, sex traits were assigned differently (in certain American-Indian tribes, for instance, women were the decision makers--and the tormentors of prisoners.)
Rainborowe
I was talking more about social trends, not particular individuals. Society pushes us into certain roles, whether we are cognizant or not. Some involve the emasculation of men, and the opposite for women (as in the workplace). There seems to be so much confusion regarding the subject, and the psychological imbalance leading to discord and exploitation as a result. And this exploitation is a two-way street, even though it may seem that men have the upper hand at present. Human nature includes both male and female, and both are capable of expressing it's negative attributes.
There is a great reference discussing these societal issues of balance, in a previous thread on CD titled:
Denormalizing the Signs of Impending Disaster
See
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/18-8
Namaste
Thanks PT :)
"honor" crimes in the Muslim world, clitorectomy (major practice!) in West Africa,"
I don't know what you mean about "dowry murders in India (wives who had served their purpose tossed into the cooking fire)."
Dowry murders are the murder of brides whose family has failed to pay the dowry agreed upon. I don't understand how this translates to "wives who had served their purpose."
"Honor crimes" are not an Islamic practice, for the most part, but one born out of cultures in which the honor of the tribe, clan and family is paramount and vested especially in the chastity of its women. Many Islamic societies do not practice it. Even in those societies where it does crop up, it is in the sections of society that are poor and hopeless. For example, one is much more likely to come across it in a long-term refugee camp than in the comfortably-off classes--where it is unknown. When people have nothing else, even hope, all they have left is abstract stuff like "honor."
Clitoridectomy is practiced in many parts of Africa, including East Africa, Egypt and the Sudan--in the latter most likely because of the trade with sub-Saharan Africa carried on by the Ancient Egyptians, including the importations of Nubian slaves. You could say that in the latter case, you get what you pay for . . .
Rainborowe
Sioux Rose
RAINBOROWE: I find your tone here unbelievably cold and clinical. Every allegation I made is true. You make these acts seem like nonchalant aspects of other cultures, but they kill, maim and mutilate women, thousands of them. You get what you pay for? What the f--k is that supposed to mean? And the dowry murder is largely because the female is being traded in, even if it's to get another dowry which will provide revenue for a television set. This is the nation where baby girls are found dead in garbage heaps, sand in their nostrils. The belief that a son is more important than a daughter is a STAPLE of sexism and borne from patriarchal societies and the religious delusions that foster their mores.
Where is your heart?
I'll accept "cold and clinical," although I'd call it factual and informed. My heart is fine, so far, thank God, ticks along quite nicely. However, I do not use it for thinking because it actually doesn't do that quite as well as my brain does. And I find your tone of muddled hysteria as objectionable as you find mine.
"You get what you pay for" meant that enslaving people who practiced female genital mutilation perhaps infected the slaveowners with the same practice.
Dowry murders, I state again, are not the "trading in" of brides but the murdering of them. And they are murdered because the parents of the girl promised a dowry they then failed to pay. When you trade in a car, chances are it's then sold on to someone else.
"This is the nation where baby girls are found dead in garbage heaps, sand in their nostrils."
I think that Americans, whose citizens practice mass murder with tedious regularity and whose government is responsible for the impoverishment, deaths and descent into prostitution and suicide of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi women and girls, are the very last people to make sweeping judgments on the evil done by and in other nations.
Rainborowe
Sioux Rose
RAINBOROWE: You're stuck in your ego, and your intellectual constructs as in logic limits love; but it takes love to open the soul to what I am speaking about here. We are operating on different wavelengths and thus cannot connect in a meaningful way. Your clinical cold view seeks to rationalize what should NEVER be countenanced by any civil society; and you are satisfied with so-called facts. These replace your fully taking in what these acts involve. I read the energies behind events and seek to understand the forces that shape them. This in the pursuit of helping the children of tomorrow to avoid the horrendous pitfalls of today by extending a higher understanding. It does take all kinds, or 12 basic models anyway, to make a world. You serve your purpose and I serve mine, but the essences of our "threads" do not jibe. For me to continue speaking to you is tantamount to arguing with a tree.
I am not "rationalizing" anything! I'm simply stating the facts about things I happen to know something about.
Rainborowe
R A I N B O R O W E
There is a higher ground of perspective, that some of us favor, that inspires a larger viewpoint of mere facts and discernment of reality. After you've cut and labeled all of the "parts", what exactly are you left holding ?
The basis of much of new age thinking is seeking the balance of all of life, especially the abundance expressed in nature, and love. I believe that Siouxrose tangibly expresses this awakening integration, and often attempts to aid the wayward travelers that have interest in choosing a "better" path.
Esoteric knowledge stems from systemic and interwoven threads in multiple dimensions of space and consciousness ( right hemi brain ), and while left brain sequential linear thinking is great at solving smaller scope problems that can be broken down, we now live in a world where intuition is needed to see interdependent relationships that otherwise ( left brain thinking ) are not perceivable.
One's thinking impacts one's perceptions, and that positive feedback can work to great advantage or deficit.
I enjoy sharing a model of reflection and perceiving where one views their thinking brain ( sometimes called ego ) somewhat as a device or program that is available and at all of our disposal, for whatever we chose to focus upon.
Just as fire is sometimes described as a wonderful servant, but a terrible master -- I view thinking similarly.
One chooses to perpetuate and reinforce a pattern of thinking in part personal experience, culture, and miscellaneous -- by just letting the brain race along, with some minor corrections. This is using the mind as master, as similar to a guided missile's navigation system -- one can either focus one's intention on a target ( mind as slave ) or let "reality" of the moment randomly throw up some half-baked destination.
Much of who we are and what we do is on autopilot, and brain as master runs most people's lives -- and the unexamined life is by some considered not "worth" living. In these moments of loss of guidance, our superficial lives are about eating the pretty looking menu and not the sumptuous meal, we get confused and believe that our crude sketched out maps are actually the same as the real ever varying filed of reality.
What SIOUXROSE is attempting to describe to you is nominally outside of the experience of one who is often the subject of his masterful mind. The mind certainly has it's place, but only serves us effectively when we create positive intentions and envision laudable future goals -- like a beautiful future for ( ALL of ) our children.
Pursuit of increasing aspects of consciousness is all about the richness of life's experiences, and how they can lead us to the unknown and unprecedented. Who wants the past and our history to be the best indicator of our future ?
Taking hold of the wheel, as The Captain of each of our own vessels, is about seeking ever greater knowledge of ourselves, to better set our courses and to better achieve our possible and promised destinations.
The auto-pilot is always going to be there, just a flick of a switch away, ready for our apparent slumber and deferring to emergent reality, impulses, and half-baked ideas-- to guide our thinking and lives.
¿ As in the "Graduate", wouldn't you like your subtle ideas that drive your perceptions and life to be " fully baked " ?
It's all about choosing more wisely, each moment.
Namaste
Sioux Rose
Ah, Namaste, I did so lament that you went missing from this rigorous discussion! And how much you add with your intelligence & eloquence & understanding. If you and I ever got to host a radio program, it would be the talk of the nation, among the enlightened, or daring-to-be-thus! Wow! (You really filled in the blanks, and then some!) I am sending you a "namaste bow."
We are each other's mirrors to exhibit that truth we have yet to fully perceive for ourselves.
Isn't it odd that human confrontation is often about what we see as the "same" in another -- but do not like it in ourselves, so we hate it more in the others -- and therefore fight … We then resist, and it persists.
When the evolved person takes the 'log out of his/her eye' to aid the other to remove their 'mote', we express the discernment of these "differences" to progress and know ourselves more wisely.
We are ALL separate in form, while dynamically seeking unity in the formless -- our individual expressions of existence are linked to a common reality, that variation between us is often perceived as bad because it is different.
Perhaps the truth is that those perceived variations and contrasts are there as something intrinsically good, as it allows us to experience a greater degree of honesty and open perception -- aliveness / presence ?
Eventually we do learn from our mistakes, but what about learning from those people that really piss us off ?
Now that's true wisdom.
Namaste
I have no idea what you're talking about!
"After you've cut and labeled all of the "parts", what exactly are you left holding ?" I am not aware of having cut or labeled any "parts" (parts of what?) or of holding anything, either.
"I believe that Siouxrose tangibly expresses this awakening integration," I'll grant that you come rather closer to meaning than SiouxRose, but only because your use of English is closer to standard and you don't use question marks as decorative touches to statements. But the content, if I'm permitted to so misuse a word, is just as much gobbledygook as hers is.
Another thing: this is a political site and commenters generally respond to the published articles or to the comments on those articles made by fellow visitors to the site. It's hard to see the relevance of this "new age" (is that what you call it?) maundering to either. Also it's an English language site; in general people don't post in other languages and Sioux Rose's and your post above make about as much sense to me as Mongolian would, and the only Mongolian I know is "yurt."
Rainborowe
R A I N B O R O W E
You say that "I have no idea what you're talking about!", and that is perfectly fine and an expression of clear honesty, which is an auspicious start.
There's something in you responding to SIOUX and I, as perhaps you're drawn to a glitter only vaguely perceived, off at the edge of understanding.
You show concern about my postings as appearing as : "just as much gobbledygook as hers is."
I know the world is challenging for all of us to perceive fully, and some people are just more aware or conscious ( of what they don't know that they don't know ) while others are convinced there is no more to be seen. Language is changing with the augmentation of people's perception, and perhaps outside of your observations of society -- many of us strongly believe in essentially a transformation of society ( like teenage to adult ).
You state that : "It's hard to see the relevance of this "new age" (is that what you call it?) "
I submit that those more aware are perfectly suited to discuss progressive issues, due to the profound nature of interconnectedness of issues and people, which require novel out-of-the-box thinking for solutions.
The massive paradigm shift is occurring, has already gone way beyond "new age" for many of us. There are now globally millions of self-organizing grass roots groups of every possible type, that are rising up to represent important issues that existing institutions have failed to deliver upon. These are emergent expressions of people's long held back frustrations of working within the system that has basically failed all, but the richest elites.
Whatever you see and experience is just fine for where you are, and reading and posting on CD is a great beginning for people's exposure to issues well outside of mainstream media's constant preoccupation with Brittany's latest crisis, or similar trivia.
I suspect from the tone of your postings, that you are young and likely College educated, which is great beginning.
None of us know for sure where life is heading. This type of forum is all about preparing and clarifying our choices, so we can go forward with better preparations and ideas.
There is an ancient wise saying ( some might re-tread it as "new age" ), similar to 'bringing a horse to water, and then attempting to make him drink' :
The teacher arrives,
when the student is willing
Namaste
Actually I'm old and a retired university professor.
Rainborowe
"Every healthy human being seeks love and a sense of belonging. Our spiritual natures long for the state of communion with Creator, or the great Beingness that is eternal".
"Without love, without a SACRED sense of the joining together of the male and female, the entire fabric of Creation unravels".
SIOUX ROSE, you have hit at the heart of spirituality and the taste of the Divine. American capitalistic consumer culture has robbed us of our humanity.
The devil (evil) was never to appear with a red costume, horns and a pitchfork, but in realty, to appear on earth as goodness, like a hansome successful man in a dark pin striped suite and with a briefcase (like the Davos elite). Evil seldom appears as evil, it often appears as virtue.
Bravo!
The state we are in is patriarchy which is fascism in itself --
underpinned by patriarchy's invention: organized patriarchal religion.
Patriarchy involves organized war on Nature and women/children.
Continuing your thoughts . . .
"The human self defines itself and grows through love and work - all
psychology before and after Freud boils down to that."
Betty Friedan
"The loveless crave power because they lack both love and self."
Betty Friedan
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Sioux Rose
CONSCIENCE, STEPHEN & CHESS GAME: We're all in agreement, just reinforcing each other's prescient points.
As to this idea of balance, truly the structural blueprint creation is Writ in as granted evidence through our own DNA (the doubled helix involving an equal contribution of Yin and Yang, or She and He mattter)... I realize SOME women are identifying with the masculine "reality" model moving into the military or intensely competitive "gotta play with those balls!" sports; but it might be said that the many gay males who excel at interior design, food preparation, and fashion (to name a few venues of the much maligned Venus) are unconsciously contributing their part to regain the great balance.
If even 10% of the US budget was taken from miliarism and its exploits and directed at art, architecture, music, ballet, museum-building, poetry coventions, theatrical productions, community rehab projects & gardens, we would begin to see GAIA heal. I would also personally love to see a TRUE Sabbath, which is to say a day alloted to nature to simply be and heal... the poor Mother is exhausted and coming apart at the seams. In other words all the factories come to a stop, all the national parks close, all the shops turn off the lights, etc. There can be no music without pauses, i.e. the "rest beats."
Sioux Rose,
Does not people like Hillary Clinton and Condi Rice have a place in this "Mars mans world" of yours?
Don't blame just men for the evil done.
Sioux Rose
I wonder sometimes if some people in this forum are A. brain-dead B. suffer from amnesia or C. Just want to waste MY time! I have explained this on at least FIVE occasions. First, there is a parallel between Jesus specifically choosing TWELVE disciples, and Abraham fostering TWELVE tribes. This number relates to the Zodiac as ancient blueprint for the types of people that inhabit our world. From these 12 archetypes which COULD exist in a PERFECT balance if the wisdom of the Holy circle was understood and respected in our world... comes Mars. It is only ONE archetype, but as I often argue in this forum, the one that's subsumed all the others and under the pretense of monotheism, made its claim to speak for God. Most patriarchal religions foster a Deity that has many characteristics consistent with Mars.
There are 12 basic personae, and thus 5 other masculine alternatives, though they get little "press time." The most marginalized is Uranus, the natural rebel and free thinker, and the planet that I associate with true progressives. Among the female archetypes is Athena, the daughter of Zeus, and no ordinary daughter as she who is born to sit so close to the seat of Olympian power. Her modern equivalent is the daughter of a financial tycoon like Kristy Hefner. Ms. Hefner enjoys the financial freedom built on her father's "Got milk" breast fetish. The really dark aspect of Athena, apart from her SUPPORT of war & militarism (read mythology, it's in the fine print) is that she DENIES having been born from a Mother. She literally emerges from Zeus' head, i.e. a woman whose entire mindset is shaped from the patriarchy. That type of female, which is Condi and Hilary and M. Thatcher (and others) is VERY comfortable with the status quo. She is in some respects the female version of Mars.
I teach the circle as I believe one tool for mankind's development, to transcend the costly ism divisions that have now brought us literally to the abyss, is to look higher for meaning. One size fits all has been shaped by Mars, yes, even down to academe where the rules of engagement are based on competition and self-interest. Mars is not just about guns... it's also about naked self-interest, the ego, as opposed to the heart/soul/spirit.
EVERYONE has a Mars factor, that's why one can argue that all humans have some violent potential. What impresses me is how well some people are able to neutralize Mars, which is to say bring it into harmony with the other archetypal influences. It is true to say that "the galaxy lives within each of us," as each is a biological equivalent of a cosmic Kodak moment... nor do I believe that these patterns come at random. From an estoeric perspective the birth blueprint reveals where the soul has left off in development based on previous sojourns on this challenging but beautiful planet.
Women have adapted to the patriarchal paradigm, too. How many women will risk not wearing a burka in the Arab world? How many females raised in fundamentalist Christian homes will go against the idea inculcated into them on threat of mortal sin that they disobey their fathers/husbands? The women who cut the genitals of other women (*it's called clitorectomy) have themselves been wounded, not only physiologically but spiritual & psychologically, by beliefs that do NOT tolerate female sexual pleasure. I have made a number of comments in the past few days linking violence/war to violence/sexual abuse/pornography. Any who have difficulty navigating those links are probably fighting a necessary realization in themselves.