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TechnoratiDNEVER - "Follow Us. Welcome to Denver," read the electronic sign on the police vehicle.
![[Members of Iraq Veterans Against The War (IVAW) march in downtown Denver, leading several thousands activists towards The Pepsi Center. While some feared police would attempt to stop the march, officers surprised the group by escorting the protesters through city streets, redirecting traffic and pedestrians along the way. (Photo: Rocky Mountain News)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/ivawdenver2.jpg "ivawdenver2.jpg")
And with that conciliatory gesture, an unpermitted march for peace
was allowed to proceed Wednesday afternoon through downtown Denver
streets - peacefully.
It was easily the largest demonstration in a week filled with them.
See video of the march here and here.
At least 3,000 Iraq war veterans and war protesters marched from the Denver Coliseum to the Pepsi Center perimeter. The veterans' ultimate goal was to deliver a statement to presidential candidate Barack Obama, urging him to promote the immediate withdrawal of "all occupying forces" from Iraq, among other points.
After about an hourlong standoff with police at the end of the march, contact was made with an Obama aide. Mission accomplished.
Co-sponsored by the anti-war group Tent State University and the Iraq Veterans Against the War, the march began around 3:15 p.m. outside the coliseum after 9,800 people attended a free concert featuring the heavy metal/rap band Rage Against the Machine and three other acts.
During the four-hour show, audience members were urged to join the demonstration. Band members and others stressed the need for the march to remain peaceful.
At one point, rapper Jonny 5 of Denver's Flobots referred to conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh, who has been widely quoted as saying it would be his "dream" for riots to break out in Denver during the convention. The musician told the crowd the worst thing they could do was make that dream come true.
While some feared police would attempt to stop the march, officers surprised the group by escorting the protesters through city streets, redirecting traffic and pedestrians along the way.
"Under the totality of all the circumstances, it was handled in a manner that best addressed the public safety at the time," said Lynn Kimbrough, spokeswoman for the Joint Information Center, a clearinghouse for convention security information.
The group of mostly young people walked behind a banner that said: "Support GI Resistance."
Wearing T-shirts and stickers with slogans such as "Arrest Bush" and "Make Out Not War," they sang rolling chants, Marine- style. "Tell Me What We're Marching For," sang one group. "Stop the torture, stop the war," answered another.
People lined the streets to watch, most approvingly.
As the marchers wound their way through the neighborhoods west of the coliseum, they found solidarity with a group of Latinos holding up an anti-war sign and cheering them on. "Si, se puede!" shouted some young marchers. "Yes, we can!"
But not all were supportive. From the balcony of an apartment complex, a man yelled at the throngs to move on. "Don't come back here," he said.
As the march wore on under a hot sun, some dropped out. Others found ways to take shortcuts. Two teens on the 16th Street Mall shuttle wearing Rage Against the Machine T-shirts admitted they had skipped part of the march and planned to join it as it neared the end.
One foot clad in a black shoe, the other barefoot, James Koller, 17, explained: "Someone clocked me in the face and took my shoe in the mosh pit. This is a quicker route to the Pepsi Center."
Koller's friend, Joey Minicucci, 18, of Littleton, noted that his brother was in the military and would soon be sent to Iraq. That was one of the reasons he was going to the march.
Anne Hill, of Montrose, had other reasons. "I'm marching because it seems to be the last vestiges of our free speech and because people have demands and our government's not listening," she said.
The march came to a standstill at the perimeter of the Pepsi Center around 6:30 p.m., at which time the veterans attempted to have their statement delivered to Obama. Tension with police seemed to escalate, until several veterans stepped forward and saluted police.
"We are your brothers and sisters in arms," said one. "We don't want to hurt you. We don't want you to hurt us."
With that, the standoff melted away and soon an appropriate aide was contacted.
"I figured as long as we kept things peaceful, they would hear us, and they did," said Army veteran Jeffrey Wood.
Staff writers Allison Bruce, Daniel J. Chacon, Abigail Curtis, Jeff Kass, Dan Kelley, Sue Lindsay, Steve Myers and Judi Villa contributed to this report.
74 Comments so far
Show AllProtesting in the streets, Peacefully, is very important. Unlike American MSM, other nations report on our peaceful protests; and say what you will about America. When people see that we are still able to go out into the streets and speak our minds. Countries around the world do respect us for that. Too many countries violate their protesters. Our peaceful protests signal to the world that ordinary people CARE, and our govt. for all its problems is still a nation of laws meant to protect people. The message we send the World, has Never been more important.
Thanks IVAW, CodePink, and others who went to represent all the people in America that care.
Rocyahsoul: great paragraph about the truth that is cannabis.
How does the "Carlyle Group", become so secretive? This is a Bush Company
who is benefiting from all this war racket, yet no politician ever mentions it.
So many former elected officials have become "Advisers" and "Lobbyists" for
these Wars, yet no mention anywhere. Why Not?
Please do your research before spreading lies. The CG is NOT a Bush company. G Bush was on the Board of Directors (along with some of the bin Ladens) in the 1990s. Google it.
"Obama tells huge Dem crowd he'll fix Washington"
Does he mean Spay or Neuter the Fat Cats and Blue Dogs?
All you posters need to understand that protests and penises are very similar. Typically people get all bent out of shape about SIZE, but usually it's how you USE it that matters.
While it would have been great for the size of the march to have been 100x larger, that's missing the point. From what I've read, it seems like a rather significant accomplishment. Let's build on it.
Not only did the "unpermitted" march proceed peacefully, it succeeded in actually making some contact with Obama's people -- that's actually rather remarkable. And on a side note, RATM proved they have the power to mobilize thousands of people and should be solicited more often.
There are some valuable lessons to take away from what happened in Denver yesterday evening, but to me this is the biggest:
- Veterans are key. We need to throw our support behind IVAW and any similar groups. Their inclusion adds much needed legitimacy. I'd bet it was the single biggest reason why yesterday's protest did not end in pepper spray and mass arrests.
Let's be positive about what happened. And let's keep at it.
The "Nervous Electorate" is nervous about the wrong thing once again.
"They're nervous," the BBC says, because of Barack Obama's perceived lack of experience.
But what about the trips and research he did with Richard Lugar? And education is experience, and Barack has a good one. Compare it to that of George W. Bush and John McCain. Not enough classical references in both cases.
If Senator McCain successfully loses the election, his great accomplishment may be to force people to like someone with whom they disagree on every conceivable point.
Rational people should be able to perceive the following truth: His winning would be more American disaster including gratuitous loss of life around the earth.
I made a proposal to "Saturday Night Live" during the Obama-Clinton spats. Since Hillary was constantly referencing Obama's experience, I suggested that she would dance to a recording of the Jimi Hendrix song, "Are you experience?...I know I am."
I actually heard back from SNL, which wanted to know what in the world I meant. I couldn't explain until right now. Here it is. Obama's opponent always suffers from echolalia, a term associated with extreme mental damage (Sorry, Hillary, I know you've redeemed yourself recently. I was so glad to see you go straight).
It's not whether Obama has requisite experience-- he has more than enough. The real question is why John McCain wants to ak the question over and over and over, boring the world to tears. We all would be greatly refreshed if he would sing the words instead. He could find the electric guitar accompaniment in any Borders or Barnes and Noble. Play it loud and sing along, dancing, John!
"Are you experience?.....I know I am."
Bush isnt a weasal he is a human being.
Weasals are brave tenacious animals. A bald eagle was once found with a weasal skull lodged to its throat--the animal refused to let go even after death.
Just because they go into chicken coops and kill every chicken in sight(an unnatural situation) they get labeled as a negative(because humans use chickens as slaves when they dont have to eat meat or eggs-unlike a weasal). Its humans who are the trash of planet earth.
Pot smokers may not start wars but they arent using their brains either.
Smoking cannabis dilates open the bronchial epithelium and the whole of the circulatory system, providing the conditions under which a heightened (above normal) level of oxygen is able to flow throughout the human form. This is especially beneficial if you are an active cannabis smoker, to say not a couch sitting smoker. Tobacco, nicotine particularly, has the opposite effect on the lungs and circulatory system. Getting HIGH on cannabis is getting high on oxygen which accounts for the visual sharpening that is associated with smoking cannabis. THC is responsible for calming the smoker. The human brain has THC receptors, or areas of the brain whose shape is perfect for accepting and processing as an emotive inducer THC. Cannabis is the ONLY plant humanity has fought wars to maintain the supply of, which occurred in the 18th century between Russia and Great Britain. Cannabis is one of the few plants that can grow in EVERY Earthly environment. Cannabis thrives even when planted at the extremes of the globe i.e. the North Pole. Cannabis is amongst few plants that contain the EXACT proportion of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acids that is ideal for human consumption. Cannabis contains the exact protein proportion necessary for humans to build disease fighting immunoglobins. Cannabis is a wholly nutritive food, meaning people can survive on a Cannabis only diet. Cannabis is a whole soil nutrient. 1 season of Cannabis grown well enough nutritizes the soil that any manner of plant can then be grown in it's place. Cannabis makes strong and flexible shoes, clothes, rope. Refined cannabis makes durable homes, paneling. Cannabis roots 8 inches into the soil in a matter of weeks and grows 12 feet in a season. Cannabis could easily be used to power industry as robust as we enjoy today. Cannabis can be used as biomass fuel (burned to drive a steam turbine) or refined for it's oil.
I'm guessing Webber smoked only male plants and dirt weed, if he ever smoked at all, though is more likely knocking what he has not the first clue about...
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Perhaps, but FWIW I know at least one pot-smoker who knows how to spell "weasel", and even uses apostrophes.
. . . .and the dope is smoking!
When you say "the dope" do you mean George Wanker Bush? Bush does not smoke weed since it is the drug of choice of introverts and Bush has absolutely no inner life and has said on numerous occasions that he never thinks about himself or why he does things. It may have been George Carlin who said that in a room full of stoned people you will never find anyone who will start a war. George Wanker Bush, The Greatest Punk in all of American political history, likes alcohol because it puts the swag in his swagger and the truc in his truculence. That little shit weasel would be nothing without it . . . or even with it.
I soon got tired of reading the juvenile drivel and jumped to "comment":
The demonstrators did show some intelligence in not trying to escalate it into a riot. We do need some riots (big ones!) but not at the Democratic Convention. Like it or not Obama is our best hope for returning sanity to our government, and a riot at the Convention would not help.
If Obama fails us however, that's the time to stop "writing to Congress and Obama" and to begin to riot for real !!!!
theres about 100 million rednecks praying you do take to the streets...
(and no...I'm not one of them, whoever was going to post that...I'm just saying)
The people in the convention do not care about any of these protests. They are not listening. Time for a new strategy. 3,000,000 people taking a walk on a Saturday isn't going to do it either.
The people on the Left have no political representation.
Yet we shy away from the opportunities we have to gain representation (Greens/Nader) out of fear.
Marches will make no difference unless we elect people who share our values.
McCain doesn't. Obama doesn't.
3,000 demonstrators. What a joke.
Nobody will pay any attention until 3,000,000 people hit the street.
balogna. I'm so proud of you guys I'm crying. I so wish I could be there. I'm even proud of the Denver PD for their banner. No riot. Keep up the work.
Are you kidding? "The Bachelor" and "American Idol" are on! The beer is cold, the chicks are hot and the dope is smoking! Meanwhile freedom is dying.
Speaking of protest and dissenting opinions ...
It's interesting that CommonDreams ownership now *hides* readers' comments. As well as limitimg comments to no more than 250 words.
CD put up a link for readers' reaction to their new policy -- then quickly closed down the link! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! CD ownership has learned the lesson of all oligarchic power relations, i.e., never let the general population get out of control.
CD reader comments are, for the most part, **to the left** of the political ideology of its owners. For example, no doubt those at the top of the Common Dreams' corporate structure will endorse Barack Obama. But, lo and behold, notice how many CD posters, in fact, DON'T support Barack Obama but, instead, support Nader or McKinney or some other genuinely progressive candidate.
Gee, if that continues -- if there are all these left-of-Obama posters keep posting at CommonDreams -- CommonDreams ownership may have to get Cokie Roberts, George Stephanopoulis and Sidney Milktoast to be their exclusive posters.
You know, the voice of the people can be *such* a bother sometimes, can't it? Especially to those at the top.
Here's the link: http://www.commondreams.org/users/enliven/track
Namaste
The problem is a difference of political view between Mr. Brown and Mrs. Newhouser. Note that CD was changed immediately after the death of Mrs. Newhouser (God rest her soul). Mr. Brown is the one responsible for implementing the changes due to his difference of opinion regarding citizens rights and responsibilities. I'm suprised nobody noticed that.
I disagree with Mr. Brown's management of the website, his "blackout" before the DNC, and his cloaking of reader's comments. It is, however, HIS website so I can only hope that he listens to his reader's opinions (especially the ones contributing to the site).
I did notice this, but all I know about this site is the content-- and the fact that in the past, polite (if not always complimentary) e-mails about moderation issues got no response. Are you surmising, or do you actually have some inside/background information to support your conclusion? Just curious.
I don't so much mind the "cloaking device", although if I had my druthers, the default position would be to display the comments and require the faint of heart to draw the curtain.
And the word limit was upped from 250 to 1,000, and links are possible-- IIRC, the original changes were supposed to block links. The HTML tags and even the innocuous emoticons are gone, too. But thank God for small favors.
I haven't checked the latest "guidelines" to find out whether the irritatingly censorious prohibitions against profanity and "inflammatory" content are still extant. I have noticed a few isolated Curse Words that haven't been zapped.
"He seems willing to invade Afghanistan to get Bin Laden...works for me"
What a stupid statement! In that case Cuba and Venezuela have the right to invade the US for sheltering the terrorists Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch.
Get informed.
For real.
I completly agree.
How do we even know if Bin Laden is alive?
Most of the arab world belives he is dead or living in Pakestan, not Afganistan...
So in light of that, how does invading Afganistan (for like the 3rd time) make any sense?
Why do war veterans, protesters and peace activists even BOTHER with Democrats?
It's like asking a serial killer to stop killing.
War is in their blood. Democrats are known as the War Party.
They gave America all the major wars of the 20th century: WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam. The left has GOT to stop being stupid and throw these mobsters out of office, every single one of them.
You forgot to add that regime change in Iraq was a Clinton/Gore policy before their sanction-induced Holocaust in Iraq was escalated by BushCo. For those with open eyes, it's clear Big War owns both "political patries."
Let me guess: you're going to start chanting about 3rd parties.
You trolls need to warm up your game. It's always the same thing: Democrats are pussies who won't stand up to fight or Democrats are warmongers who have started every major conflict in the modern era.
Perhaps you might enlighten us as to the actions of your party that lead you to denigrate the need for a third party?
That translates to put up or shut up....
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Typical Lesser Evilist, Dem Party Apologist nonsense.
Democrat voters are so blind, clueless.
tetti_tatti is correct. Democrats are gutless. Wars are bipartisan and always based on lies. Vote independent if you can - Mass. - vt. - n.y. ect. Vote your conscience if you must.
How come every other country in the world can manage to live within its borders? Only the USA has to fly its military 6000 miles away to "defend its nation"
Facists
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Don't paint me with that brush. I'm more American than Bush and Cheney combined, most of us here are. We didn't want this war and we're trying hard to make it stop.
'With that, the standoff melted away and soon an appropriate aide was contacted.'
and thus began and ended IVAW's photo-op lobbying of the Democratic Party at the convention carnival.
With that, the standoff melted away and soon an appropriate aide was contacted.
-Obama took the statement and commented: "Absolutely, yes we can. We can certainly remove the troops from Iraq. Then we'll send them to Afghanistan. Absolutely. Yes we can!
The DNC Convention peace marchers must have tons more energy for futile acts than I do. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the energy to perform the "defiance dance" at the front of the RNC Convention? Are people too distracted/self-defeating/stupid to know who the true adversaries are?
Democrats have been on record this year for setting time lines for pulling troops out of Iraq, for stopping the funding, ad nauseum. IT IS THE REPUBLICFANS and ESPECIALLY the REPUBLICAN SENATE who have BLOCKED all these efforts.
SO WHAT??? What makes more sense? Beating up on our own, so to speak, or going after the jerks to hollowed out America???
Don't worry, Justicewoman. IVAW, Veterans for Peace and all sorts of other peace and justice groups will be in attendance in Mpls-St Paul. But, please remember that the Democrats have had control of the purse strings since January 2007 and they have continued to fully fund the war/occupation of Iraq. We cannot let the Democrats have a "pass" just because they are not quite as despicable as the Republicans!
kill Taliban?...Yes we can!
He seems willing to invade Afghanistan to get Bin Laden...works for me
but its looking more and more like President McCain will be picking up the reins in november
(Betting parlor odds...considered more accurate than opinion polls)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/08/where_the_smart_mone...
"He seems willing to invade Afghanistan to get Bin Laden...works for me"
1. Bin Laden is dead. He was killed in December 2001 by US forces in Tora Bora. It wasn't in the MSM because they want to trot out OBL as the boogie-man to keep you Americans nice and scared.
2. Even if Bin Laden was still alive, how can you justify the mass-murder committed by NATO in the name of capturing or killing one guy? Hardly logical. You Americans want revenge for 9/11... well you've had it, 100 fold.
3. Quoting the Weekly Standard SnowWolf? Ugh... that's nothing but a neo-con propaganda outfit. You've been hanging around here long enough to know that.
That isn't the weekly standards poll...it was just published in it
its a well known fact that betting parlors get better stats because people are putting their money where their mouth is
Thou shall not kill.
That phrase is on posters all over the city of New Orleans.
It's because we are the murder capital of the US.
I guess it's something that not everyone learns as a child.
You should not kill people.
It's wrong to kill people. M'Kay.
the true commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Murder"....I do remember that from my Catholic upbringing and the Church does have a "Just War" clause...(probably inserted around the time of the Crusades...but I digress)...killing in a just war is not murder
Say what you want about Iraq...Afghanistan fits the "Just War" criteria
Afghanistan fits the just war criteria if you ignore the obvious 3 building controlled demolition carried out on September 11th, the CIA and FBI surveillance of some of the hijackers, ignore Bin Ladens 20 year service to the CIA being paid by proxy of the Head of the Pakistani Intelligence Agency who also sent Mohammed Atta $100,000 a week before September 11th, ignore the multibillion dollar insurance scam pulled off by the then new lease holder of the twin towers, ignore the enormous "put options" scam on UA and American Airlines in the days before September 11th, ignore Bush and Bin Laden are both representatives of vast financial wealth, ignore Bush seniors having traveled to Saudi Arabia to woo Daddy Bin Laden's estate into the Carlyle Group, ignore Bush junior having started his first business with bin laden money, ignore the historical perspective of Hitler having sent his own soldiers in Polish military uniforms to start the Reichstag fire which was his excuse to invade Poland, ignore the Goebbels quote that goes something like: All you have to do to drag your nation into war is concoct an external threat...
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
That is not the commandment I learned in Sunday school.
That is also not the slogan on the posters around town.
I'm not a catholic. Nor am I a friend of the teachings of catholics.
I believe some kinda harsh things about the rapture people and the catholics.
But I do not believe in any killing for any reason.
I don't believe in war - none of them are just.
Afgans did nothing to us.
And even if they did, I still would not kill them.
How many killings are we owed?
How many Germans can a Jewish person kill today in response to the crimes of yesterday? Why does the time betweeen now and then matter for the Jewish people but not the US? Because our deaths happened in 2001 and that was something we can remember? Well, if a Jewish person is old enough to remember do they get to take axes to Germans? I'm gay, can I bomb Iran? They kill gays. Can I bomb Germany in revenge for the pink triangle? Of course not. It's all just made up revenge mongering. Just like Afganistan.
How many killings are we owed?
2,000? 3,000? A million? When does the blood answer our desire for revenge? After it's enough to shower ourselves in it?
Just half the population?
2/3rds?
Since terrorists and the supporters of terrorists could be anyone in the country, would it be just to nuke the whole nation?
If so, why haven't we done so? Are we cruel to make them wait for the fire and brimstone we rain down on them? Would it be most just to simply get it over with? Nuke them all? Burn the shadows of the muslims into the ground. Would that answer our country's need for blood?
I don't care what Church you subscribe to, but Jesus Christ, the last of the Christians, rephrased the Golden Rule to say:
Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.
Whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also... and whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
If you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer our gift.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Christ never spoke of a "just war". That is a modern construct that is completely counter to his teachings.
No Dude...I said the Pope...not Jesus Christ...
and the current Pope used to be in the Wermacht...so I guess the just war clause isn't going to be dissolved anytime soon
(I'm an Agnostic but was raised in a Catholic household...pardon my blasphemous humor)
Obama is running to be Chief Honcho and Wizard of the 'Murkan Empire, not to be President of the United States. He is intelligent enough to know (unlike George Wanker Bush or McCain) that the Empire is dead man walking. Yet still he runs. In other words, the ambition is more important than anything else. Lord Acton was so right: all power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Oh I think this dead man walking has some life left in him yet...
but I do agree with you about Obama's ambition... his hubris is going to be his downfall
Iraq is already over, they are figuring when to leave right now and Afghanistan is the "popular" war (even with Democrats)...
So...another exercize in futility
Good luck with your closing the Pentagon...but thats not going to happen either...nor should it
Yes, it should be closed.
I will never agree with you.
The wonderful thing about America is we don't have to agree...and can still be friends
We could be friends I suppose.
But we aren't.
And one of the best things about the USA (America includes Mexico and Canada and other places, so I assume you meant the USA) is that here, we have the right to associate with the people we want to.
Which means I don't have to be your friend.
And I'm not.
Rancor serves only to strengthen the position of this obvious propagandist. It is his politics that is offensive, not him as an individual. He might be a good husband, father, neighbor. It is best to refute the neoconservative line he spouts and refrain from attacking him personally.
I work with blue collar guys, all hard workers, all good folks, most Bush supporters because of the difficulty in getting progressive messages to the people. I have success only because I act as a friend and not an opponent. I'm just saying here.....
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
So mask your true feelings? Call him a neoconservative, but not to his face? Classy. About the same as the lack of civility shown above.
If you can't be civil in disagreeing, just ignore them. If you disagree say so but say why....and name calling doesnt qualify as evidence or informatiion.
This is a liberal site and we don't need neocon like behavior. Thats where disagreeing with someone makes them the enemy.
SnowWolf
You need to get out more if you think this quality is unique to America.
Actually...I've been around the World...couple of times
I never said it was unique to ...the "USA" (I don't want to upset my non-friend)
Has anyone heard Obama talk about taking troops out of Iraq and putting them into Afghanistan. I think I heard that.
I will get raked over the coals for this one but it is now time to dispense with a gluttonous military. 600 billion dollars spent on making people conform to our dictates using the excuse of national security is a ruse. Your government wants to continue the ruse by proclaiming force is necessary in order to keep your energy spigot open. This is nothing short of insanity.
Use 500 billion of that money to escalate development of clean sustaiable energy. Use it to educate people of life skills necessary outside of shopping. Use it to provide green domestic initiatives that encourage conservation, stewardship and sacifice.
For humanity's sake it is time to leap into the 21st century and put guns and bombs into the casket not bodies.
What's wrong with a society romanticizing the use of force and service of force as heroic employment of family values. Sorry, I simply can no longer stomach the line that the risk is too high so we must arm ourselves for impending annihilation. Take the time to stop and reflect on what 600 billion dollars could do.
ANd yes, that doesn't even include the supplemental which has now reached 700 billion.
I want to hear those "soldiers" cry out for the maimed and dead that our war has wrought in other countries around the world with deadly weapons. We outlaw the use of them in our own country but use them liberally in others?
No excuses. It's time to close the doors of the Pentagon.
Unfortunately there seems to be room for everything under the sun, including war and mayhem. I agree with civil behavior, and I think that unless we collectively outgrow our belligerence we will self destruct. But the military does not manufacture killers, it attracts them. Wars are outlets for our eternally adolescent, testosterone-addled young hotshots to validate their manhood. If we abolish the military, where will these people go? What will we do with our SnowWolves? Organize more SWAT teams?
Some things are not within our power to legislate. Belligerence originates in the swarmy bowels of human nature and pops out like measles without anybody's permission, making its own excuses as it goes. Freud knew this. Thomas Pynchon knew it. We sweep these guys under the rug and don't look at them. One is reminded of the Reagan years - a sleepy commander-in-chief with Cheney and Rumsfeld and Oliver North in the cellar controlling the machinery.
Yes. Mass murder committed by governments is still mass murder. The military should be put to rest or rather converted into a place in which young people can train for rescue missions, civil projects and public service. And the contracters like Blackwater must be fired.
The military is used for armed robbery and home invasion. The idea that you can solve problems by slicing and dicing other humans is a fiction used to disguise the real purposes of war.
War is insane.
Joe
Jeevee
BRAVO, Civil Beharior!!!
I won't roast you, as I agree "somewhat".
Yes, the Pentagon has always been about global superiority.
We will always need a defensive force, one that stays within US borders unless attacked from outside.
We will always need a defensive force, one that stays within US borders unless attacked from outside.
unfortunately Isolationism assures another World War....(think we're in a war now?...wait)
Al Queda's "Mission Statement" is that 10 Million Americans have to Die...4 Million have to be children...do we negotiate with them?...how about just 5 million...2 million kids?
This little brush war is going to go on for the next 25 years (regardless who's elected) or until we kill them all...or until THEY quit...whichever comes first...
I would add my voice to the request that you confirm this rather strange "mission statement" you attribute to AlQaeda. I believe that I pay attention but have never heard this before.
The twenty or thirty thousand members of AlQaeda do not at all represent the 1.4 billion followers of Islam. The way to stop this "brush war" is to stop the actions of this nation and the west that appear to be imperialism and another crusade. A rather long time ago Che Guevarra noted that, to be successful , a guerrila fighter ( archaic term for terrorist :-))had to swim through the population like a fish through water. Turn that population against them and they must fail.
I would add that Britain and France, two nations who have much experience with terrorist actions on their soil, treat such as a police matter and were quite successful using this strategy to end the bombings and catch the culprits. Contrast that with our own efforts using the military abroad, or homeland security ( a running joke)within our nation. Under Clinton those who committed the first acts of violence against the WTC were apprehended by the police, were they not?
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Unfortunately, Bu$h-Cheney-Rumsfeld gang squandered all the goodwill that 9/11 spawned and went full-steam ahead to loot the bank of Baghdad - but after all, that was what 9/11 was all about, I suppose.
Do you think we would accept the level of intrusion that both Britain and France use to produce their results?
"a guerrila fighter ( archaic term for terrorist :-))had to swim through the population like a fish through water. Turn that population against them and they must fail."
Excellent point.
How does a army that has only bullets and bombs as strategies, and speaks only English, either win over or suppress the elusive Taliban or al queda by marching unprepared into a strange land? You will inevitably kill the innocent and turn more people against you, obviously.
We need to protect people from terrorists like Timothy McVeigh and the WTC crashers, but INTELLIGENCE is required. You cannot do the job with trooops and highly paid mercenaries working on the basis of straightface lies.
Joe
Where did you get al Qaeda's mission statement, NoWolf? Bill O'Reilly? Seems our bloated military couldn't handle a little Bush war in the Mideast, so throwing more money at them will make it all better, eh? You and your ilk are suckers and fools, duped by the war profiteers who wave a flag in front of you eyes like a matador does to a bull.
I would like to suggest to you that we may not have a "bloated" military. After all the military under Eisenhower was 3 million. We have far, far fewer.
Fewer troops perhaps. But I believe more private contracts, contractors and expenditures considering there is no national enemy of any consequence.
Joe
If anyone is going to rake you over the coals for your comment I'll be right in there roasting right along with you. The amount spent on the military is INSANE.
WE THE PEOPLE WANT IT TO STOP! NOW!
-- EKATON --
Well put civil behavior - We could protect our "homeland" for one tenth of what we spend. Probably less than that. No country has the ability to invade America. No country is threatening to invade America. Period...
No-one wants to invade, but there are plenty of states wanting to secede.
you can't secede anymore...they amended the Constitution after the first Civil War
of course we could always pick up where we left off...start at the old scrimmage lines or what?
No no, us crafty Canadians are just waiting for you to cut your military back and we're going to invade. heh.
Thank God! Then you can pay to rebuild the country.
if we wait a bit longer you're well on the way to cutting your own to nothing...so c'mon down
I've seen "South Park: Longer, Bigger and Uncut" (1999) and I know you Canucks are untrustworthy (and foulmouthed). We are ready for you. Men, lock and load your popguns!