Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Newsvine
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
TechnoratiWASHINGTON - Street demonstrations, teach-ins, vigils, and "freezes" are among the events planned for this weekend as part of a nationwide protest against what are widely perceived to be moves by the George W. Bush administration toward military conflict with Iran.
"Freezes," involving a large number of people standing in place for five minutes, are planned for key locations in New York City such as Grand Central Station and Penn Station, as well as Chicago's Millennium Park and Santa Monica, California.
The term and new form of street action derive from the state of U.S.-Iran relations. The Bush administration says Iran must freeze its uranium enrichment program in order to "defrost" relations between the two countries and avoid further sanctions.
Elsewhere anti-war and religious groups, students, trade unions, and others will participate in "Call to Action: No War with Iran" co-sponsored by New York-based United for Peace and Justice and Washington, D.C.-based Peace Action.
Actions are planned in such diverse locations as Champaign-Urbana, Illinois; Melbourne, Florida; Philadelphia; San Francisco; and Waterloo, Iowa.
Two thirds of Americans asked during a recent Gallup poll whether they favor diplomatic initiatives or military action against Iran said they wanted the U.S. government to pursue peaceful negotiations.
While demonstrators around the United States drive home that point, a high-ranking U.S. diplomat will attend a meeting Saturday in Switzerland with an Iranian diplomat -- a rare break with Bush administration practice that has largely shunned direct talks with Iranian officials.
William Burns will attend the Geneva meeting involving Iran and a group of European Union countries trying to break through the current impasse, but White House spokesperson Dana Perino has characterized Burns' presence as a "one-time U.S. participation."
The meeting is aimed at convincing Iran to accept a package of incentives offered last month by Western nations, in exchange for ceasing to enrich uranium.
To date Iran has rejected the package, and earlier this month held highly publicized missile tests to show its level of seriousness. At the same time, rumors were rife that Washington is working behind the scenes with Israel to prepare a military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities.
Some experts argue that these rumors, whether or not they are true, have a negative impact by fueling Iranian nationalism, entrenching the stance of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, heightening tensions, and ultimately leading to intransigence and events such as the Iranian missile tests.
Media reports suggest that a pro-Israel lobby group is pressuring Congress to impose a naval blockade on Iran, which would be considered an act of war.
In response, protestors in Columbus, Ohio plan a "Peace Boat Blockade" for Monday, involving a march on the offices of Republican Congressman Patrick Tiberi, who supports the blockade, carrying toy boats, submarines, and airplanes to "demonstrate the crazy policy that this blockade symbolizes."
The demonstrations are scheduled for Jul. 19-21. Following the series of street actions planned for Saturday and Sunday, Monday has been designated "Congressional Education Day." Protestors will lobby Congress to hold back plans for war with Iran.
Copyright © 2008 OneWorld.net.
81 Comments so far
Show AllHow would we know if protests had any impact whatsoever? Protest today is America's silent story, not covered by our "free" news media. I recall "back in the day" (late '60's, early '70's) that what gave protests relevance was the media coverage; much of mainstream America, it turned out, often shared the views of the protesters. Media coverage also "legitimized" protest as a means by which government can be compelled to listen to the people. This time around, it appears that the media black-out has had a demoralizing impact, making dissent appear to be without public support --just some isolated non-conformists grumbling about this or that.
All ideals aside, the public perception of today's protests will remain that of small groups of bored youth UNTIL the media is compelled to cover it.
Once that is done, it'll bring more and more people with similar views out of isolation, joining in the demand for change, and that's how movements are born. What would it take to end the censorship of the mainstream news?
It is all very well for the IRI to spend money and get you to go and protest against WAR - which is a noble cause BUT - what do you say about this ---" Nine face stoning death in Iran - At least eight women and one man are reported to have been sentenced to death by stoning in Iran. -BBC 7/20/08 " -
Would you like to go on the streets and protest about this bit of barbarism too?
I suggest going straight to Tehran with a long piece of rope and stinging all the Fascist Mullah Mafia's of The NON - ISLAMIC. bloody NON REPUBLICAN, OF INVADERS OF IRAN and hanging them from the Pahlavi avenue's trees...How about it folks ---any volunteers?
Grappa, thank you for that
If so many people are afraid to speak up (and believe me, they are in my neck of the woods) it's important to speak up. Even if it doesn't "change" anything. It's not enough to do only that, but it's not worthless and ineffectual either.
Read up on resistance or liberation movements that worked. What factors were present? Organizing, strategizing, protesting, non-cooperating, etc.
I've done a lot of non-cooperating in my life but I want it to deepen. Trying to become aware of distracting falsehoods, like even the notion of nation states and their charismatic (or negative charismatic) leaders. This forum helps me a lot despite the rudeness and shouting. Venting may drain off energy, or it may free us up for effective action. Venting can be shouting in forums or writing to a so-called representative. Maybe anything that relieves our frustration is a bad thing, a tool of the corporate empire. (Is there a name for the power holders that we can agree on? I feel silly calling it the evil empire, but am willing to go with that if it's clear what is meant.)
Glancing references to some good actions here. Where can we talk where no one will be listening?
The US government knows only how to enter without bothering how to withdraw. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Military action against Iran is logical culmination of the policy that is being followed by successive US administrations. Without radical departure in policy Iran is to be attached and at this juncture a policy can not be changed that has taken decades to shape. So let look forward to a new war – most devastating war that will inflict much deeper wounds than the Second World War or rather all wars fought in the human history. Let look forward to great (war) entertainment on corporate controlled media.
Subhash Dhuliya
New Delhi
The Iraq War of 2003 was illegal. It is now legal. Germany & France were against, Both are now in favour. Speaker Pelosi was against. She is now for it. Dems were mostly against. They are now for it [those in Congress anyway]. Forces against invasion are called terrorists. The invaders are called liberators. Omar Bashir is to be indicted but not Bush & Blair & Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz & Kristol & Haas ...
lisa3210peace
I'm not sure about Jcrumbs state but in PA sales tax is paid to the state not the federal government .Except in cases where the criminal state governments have cut deals w/ Walmart and the like that allow them to collect sales tax and keep it as profit.
yknot Positive comment #3
Vote against all incumbents regardless of party affiliation in November. thank you..that wasn't so hard, was it. Great contribution!!!
annabelle
Negative comments usually are in the eyes of the beholder. Facing reality is the first step in any journey that is worth taking. If you are seriously interested in a serious consideration how about the following; in the November election vote against all the incumbents regardless of party affiliation.[does not that read too much like a negative comment?]
i say, what ever anybody can do, be it large or small is a good step, and they should be encouraged. you just never can tell what action will be the tipping point. I been fighting this monster since the 60's and I will continue till my last breath.
yknot...why not...add a positive to the list instead of negative comments...just a thought. You wouldn't even be posting after reading the above comments if you were not seriously interested, so evidently you have given all of the issue serious consideration and had a few thoughts on how to make positive changes. Share them!
Then this must be acknowledged to wit: At least the following will definitely be p*ss*d off; Norman Podhoretz, Joe Lieberman, Frederick Kagan, Bill Kristol, the AEI and Israel.
Will such postures be producing more positive karma than just protestations opposing war with Iran?
#2. Peace through positive karma.
Volunteer somewhere, anywhere, to help anyone. Someone near to me said that volunteering is truly giving of one's self because you can't get back the time you give to someone else. Too many people give stuff, and not enough give time. Be it at a school, helping tutor children, or at an old folks home, listening to elders; the time spent is worth it in the end.
There is too much negative in this world, and that negative only begets more negative. Donate to the collective positive.
Hope is NOT a lost art...only a forgotten one.
P. S. Start a list with everyone adding one or two suggestions.
#1. Election reform
With so many people dissatisfied with the way things are and, if they keep up these conversations and discussions it is bound to be contagious. I have heard things repeated back to ome that I commented on months ago and now people are agreeing with me although they didn't way back when. I think there is a powerful silent movement. It may be slowly producing results we have yet to see. Evidently the only people in the 20% who feel we are on track are the ones w/pocket being filled with taxpayer funds. With odds of 20% against 80% I would say those of us 'dissenters' have the upper hand. We just have to figure out when to hold them and when to fold them. There is too much good to be overcome by greed and selfserving government elected and nonelected officials. What was it we all learned in typing???...now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party.....maybe change that to 'come to the aid of their New party.'
DREAM WARRIOR July 19 11:20 p.m.
Protesting, signing petitions, writing letters, and not buying a lot of garbage are really all the options I have available.
You don't know anyone that lives in an apartment building in a large city, do you? That's where I live, in CHICAGO, and let me tell you about it. My neighbors: mostly foreign, too fearful or disinterested. (One I know is intent on making money for a few years - and then going home to start a small business. I think his roommate has the same goals.) Some don't speak English well enough for me to communicate with beyond the fundamentals. There's an elderly couple that couldn't/wouldn't be bothered to come out of their apartment when we had a fire scare in the building. That's how I met most of the people that I have met: by running from apartment to apartment, banging on the doors, trying to find out whether someone had left the gas on under something on the stove. Two others I met in the laundry room: nice enough people, but not easy to converse with because of the language barrier.
Grow things? Fish and hunt? In Chicago? We don't even have an unpaved back yard. And what there is, isn't large enough for 20 people.
Chicago is the home of apathy! I went to an Impeachment site - at one of the national organizations - and there was only one person in my district signed up! She wanted to play a DVD at a local bar to get people interested. How far do you think that would have gone?
Every once in a while, a few people from an anti-war (and pro-impeachmentthat) group put up a small stand near the end of one of the commuter train lines - (the "Brown" line) - and they try to hand out flyers and talk to passers-by. They have a large sign, asking drivers to honk for impeachment. Very few people will do that much. If you can't get more than a few people to make the effort to honk a car horn, how do you get them to do anything?
As for not paying taxes, here in Chicago, a lot of people seem to be know, even now, that the police and the FBI combined couldn't take down Al Capone - but the IRS did! That makes one hell of an impression... Doesn't matter how it's done, the idea of not paying taxes scares the bejeepers out of most.
I'd love to get rid of AT&T (SBC) - but what can I replace it with? I've called every telephone company I can find, and either they don't seve my area or they are closed to new customers. (I thought breaking up the Bell System was supposed to end telephone monopolies...)
I had thought about the possibility of going in with someone on a small rural property, but I couldn't find anyone that wanted - or could figure out how - to leave the city. They can't take their jobs with them. The longer it takes, the less money I have to do it: I'm not working, and I continue to pay rent.
No, I am not arguing your points: they are good, but they cannot apply to everyone. (I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.)
- - - - -
AVION 20 12:25
You have got it: one of the worst things that happened, early on, was the court declaring that corporations are 'persons.' Far too many people shrugged that one off.
- - - - -
Oh, and to those that have suggested it: I will not get rid of my television. How would I play my DVDs or cassettes? (I need some respite from 'reality.') I have refused to attach the rabbit ears, though, since I moved 7 months ago; and, obviously, if I won't watch it for free, I am not getting cable or satellite.
I've really enjoyed reading everybody's comments. You know if each and everyone of us could come up with one,small thing to do everyday, or when the opportunity arises to screw non violently with the system, or the powers that be in Washington and the Media that we won't take their crap anymore, it might start a cycle of change. I have two suggestions to try. Both of them would not cost us a thing, it would not hurt anybody but the FatCats in Washington DC, and in Chicago, and Phoenix and all the major Media outlets in the country know things are about to change and its us the people who are going to bring it about.
1.) When a Polling Company calls you listen attentively ans wer the qeustions until 1/2 through, then hang up. The joy o this is that they cannot count a completed poll, the candidate still has to pay for it and its wastes their time and money. Plus it does not give them the knowledge of what we are thinking or how we are voting!
2.) Stop all communications with the media, no letters to the editors, no contributions to story lines, no phone calls to them, shut them out of our lives, freeze them out of your life, believe me they'll notice.
Nationwide protests on August 2nd. Join one near you or create your own and list at
http://www.stopwaroniran.org/aug2.shtm
Is this really what demonstrating means in the 21st century? Large numbers of people standing still for five minutes?
In 2002/2003, millions of people marched against the Iraq war, and it still went ahead, so now we are going to raise the stakes - we are all going to stand still!!!??????
Please let me off this planet ASAP.
Other participants in this discussion: How many of your friends, family, co-workers, church members or civic groups feel the same way you do? You all have sincere convictions that change is necessary to overcome what has become a polorized nation totally stuck in a 'what-to-do-mode?' If roughly 80% of the population thinks that we are on the wrong track this should give us a lot of confidence that a broad movement to support change would be sucessful. However, each and everyone would have to make a compromise: stop the battering of each others ideas, which is childish, and concentrate on all of the positive suggestions. Bad Language and rudeness has never accomplished anything, except perhaps bad feelings. Go back and reread these postings and from each one write down the one positive thing you gleaned from each entry. It makes quite an interesting list and the beginning of a good platform for reform with everyone contributing sound thought and commom sense. This is way too productive to give up and way too meaningful for pettiness. Get back to work and keep the ideas coming!
Well I see this has gotten many talking and some who quit...JCrumb are you sure "they" wouldn't just print and borrow money anyway? And you haven't answered lisa3210peace...seems her question is valid. Dwayne, the most famous pacifist was a little brown man by the name of Gandhi, he and his followers 'en masse' took on and overcame the most powerful empire (England) of the time and acheived Independance for India.
Some of his tenents were...that, Wealth without work...Pleasure without Conscience...Science without Humanity....Knowledge without Character....Politics without Principle...Commerce without Morality...and Worship without Sacrafice were problems which needed to be changed and overcome. And Gyro I like the lighten up maybe though enlighten up might serve us as well........lover of peace is it not still our choice to live in fear or not.......Surrender are you talking with others about being a part of 'en masse'? ThomasMc....I agree vote for anything other than the two sides of the same coin neither dems or repubs and if "we the people" do it 'en masse' we may once again become "WE THE PEOPLE"......but I disagree that protests 'en masse' won't help facilitate change I agree with Jack Nelson Stewart NON VIOLENT.......what percentage of "WE", who on an arranged day took off, no work, no shopping maybe gathered across this nation to mourn the loss of the Constitution, maybe stating that if the politicians won't do their jobs well guess what neither are we, what kind of numbers do you suppose it would take to make a difference? There are those out here who if they thought it would make a difference are willing to do this even though they can't afford it. Change this says we have many knowledgeable folk who believe.....maybe someone knows how to set up a web site where we might agree on a day then "WE" could see what kind of numbers would be willing to JOIN in ....arcing28 come join 'en masse' we'll happily include you and maybe this would get your Reps attention....Skokulan we can make our own media U tube for instance isn't that right revenge girl? Or, does our power scare you? are you afraid, you shouldn't be for all we would be doing is talking truth to those in power. now, why is it wrong or hopeless to oppose another war? I can be reached at Peterntomsbro@aol.com
I seem to remember that if you re-file your W-4 with your employer, you can increment your dependents to 99 (?), and thus avoid giving the creeps in govt. your money for the rest of the year, at least until you file your next return.
This may put you in a class where they demand your 'quarterly deposits' for the following year, but at least, this would deny the money to GW.
Many good ideas. Some very emotional but right on.
We might have to shower, shave, make ourselves presentable & beleivable and run for local office and take over. Then we run for higher office and so on. There are enough pissed-off people to vote for someone who finally makes sense instead of feeding us the same old bullshit.
It's really cathartic to blog at the keyboard but taking positive action is tough.
MLK never said "I have a complaint or a bitch", as we know, he had a dream and he followed it till his death protesting peacefuly. Maybe we can do it withour the seemingly fruitless protests by joining the system & voting no!!!!.
So, impotent liberals, how
did those NATIONWIDE PROTESTS
to stop US imperialism go;
stop any warmongering lately?
Most Sincerely, Dwayne Chandler.
interesting, but long clip...meditation groups passing this around....topic: "healing ecology"...speaker david loy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77mGxHlV8nM
The core of capitalism is PROFIT (rooted in "advantage" and so rooted in "DIS-advantage" of others). War is the means to maximum short-term profit (and of course to world-destruction). Nothing is going to change until peace and protest movements start affecting that word and the machine built for it. How? By WALKING OUT of work when your hours have pulled your weight in the world. The down-spike in profits will hurt the monsters where they truly live and awaken people to the fact that nothing works without their own labor. THAT is where the real power is---and what we'll gain is a new world like that of post-imperial Europe, whose every nation tried to dominate the world and learned the hard way that it's much easier/better to enjoy each day of life. How long will it take you, Americans? How many dead children do you have to see first? WALK OUT ON PROFIT---Work to pull your weight and no more. And the world will have to adjust to YOU, not the other way around. You cannot reason with psychotics---only hurt them where they live as you can, with your own hands and feet. And then you will find that life is about "other things" than advantage and status over neighbors....http://ancientgreece-earlyamerica.com
JCrumb: Gee, Where did you Go? I asked you what you do with all the TAXES your sales web-site COLLECTS.....and you dis-appeared!
Awwwee....
Too tough a Question you hypocrite? Eat your rants.
I really wanted to BUY a MATERIAL THING, from you too JCrumb....but the TAXES made it too expensive!
Wow. looks like we're gettin ready for Armageddon. Lots of us saw this coming in the 60's and had to leave the country so as to actually live a while without the onrushing fascist nightmare constantly demoralizing us....Now we're gettin old and wonder if we'll be asked to help re-invent "Amerrika" after the revolution....hey its been one helluva ride huh.
PROTEST? If you don't get out in the street and do it regularly, you simply are missing some of the best fun around....the chance to talk with strangers about the end of our little civilization! Meeting folks who actually care about the morality of torture! Deep analysis with wise old dudes! Etc.Etc. At least, I would respectfully request that no disparagement be done to those few who stand out there facing the rest of the apathetic little Fascist sympathizers who have somehow never been able to reflect on what the facts of our situation really mean....
Who the f..k cares if we can prove that "protest didn't stop the war..."? Rome wasn't built in a day and it won't come down on color TV. Nobody can say what tomorrow brings and mystery is the spice which makes getting up in the morning exhilerating....sweet dreams folks!!
“block I95 and CNN will be there in a heartbeat.â€
I-95 is blocked half the time anyway.
We Get Congress To Impeach George Bush & There'll Be No Iran War
"How we going to do that?"
"We flood Congress with Emails, telephone calls during next week's House Judiciary Committee hearings on Impeachment."
"Anything else?"
"We hold mass rallies outside the district offices of every congressperson who's opposed to impeachment."
"But faced with impeachment, wouldn't Bush be even more likely to order an attack upon Iran?"
"He wouldn't dare."
"Why not?"
"Empowered by our having forced Congress to begin impeachment proceedings, we'll be the deciders."
"And Congress."
"Once again our servants, like the Constitution says."
"And our government?"
"Of, for and by the people."
My brothers and sisters, we can change this. We are true patriots with ALOT of power, contrary to what alot of cowards claim. Yes Klever, we can surely take those scumbags out. Never say never. They are human like us but better organized because of thier " Think Tanks ". We can and need to form our own think tanks with immediate and urgent agendas. As I stated in my blog above, we are powerful because of who we are. Why should we give in??? These scum of the earth can and WILL be removed from our lives. They are a diseased organism and need to be gotten rid of.
Sleep well my people. Change is coming - real change - not the Obama type change.
Well first get past the idea that you're wasting your time if your resistance efforts do not pan out immediately - make it a matter of principle plus personal benefits. So you reduce your income to reduce your taxes, and make up by becoming more self-sufficient, and bartering, and explaining to people why you're doing it - this encourages them to join up, and really it's a grass roots movement we need to build, each of the grass roots has to start thinking for him/herself again, taking responsibility. Most generally, learn to spot all the power centers and deny them your exchange/association. And joining rallies and marches, writing to papers/reps - it's all good. Just don't expect immediate results. It doesn't matter if it takes a week or ten years for the fed to surrender - the changes have to start at the grass roots. Besides, the benefits start to flow immediately to the people who join the movement.
None of the protests should be ridiculed.We are in a downward spiral on many fronts and demonstrating can at least give some spiritual uplift to those participating.
Then who knows what direction new efforts may take? One thing is certain-the neocons want their opponents to give up.They've left no doubt that they will torture dissidents and have built massive detention camps if the feces hit the fan.
Will it take thousands to die to effectively combat these scumbags? Probably.The government has become the enemy-not small groups like Al-Queda.We need a resistance group like the one that fought Hitler and almost killed him.Do the majority of posters here think that such patriots already exist?
shokulan July 19 11:03pm "...a huge difference between France and the US is that the French government is afraid of the people, but American people are afraid of their goverment."
As a US-French NGO administrator who has lived half of each year in France and half in the US for the past 12 years, I can attest that what you quote from Michael Moore's observation is basically accurate.
BTW, Moore and other observers go on to note what they think is the major reason for the difference --the political accountability of French news media to the people.
The French equivalent of the US MSM is almost as narrowly corporatized as in the US, but in France all public and private corporations are directly answerable to a vigorous parlimentary-like government, and no business entity of any kind in France has the US equivalent of legal personhood.
The French people are by no means uniformly progressive in their sense of economic justice and political rights for all. Their recent election of a right of center president, whose campaign pandered to racial bigotry and advocated American-style downsizing of workers' rights and pension plans, was conscious and intentional.
However, and unlike the US, once the right of center executive showed its more nefarious neo-conservative colors to France's middle and lower classes, the elitist's grap for power was stopped dead in its tracks by a news media and lawmaking assembly which never blinked for a moment in response to public outrage.
Hello my brothers and sisters.
I have read all of your wonderful comments. Each one of you is special; each and every one of you cares; each and everyone of you wants and seeks a solution to the madness that has overtaken our leaders. Some of you have said that we should protest by witholding tax payments so that we could hit them ' where it hurts '. Some of you have said that we should stop supporting those who supply arms, munitions, technology, logistics and finances to the war party. All of these are very insightful and provocative and somewhat practical. I agree that peaceful, symbolic marches and protests have NO effect on anyone with the finger on the button. These guys in power are PURE EVIL and don't give a damn about their public image and popularity ratings. Their souls have ALREADY BEEN SOLD TO THE EVILDOER. We, as a peaceful and intelligent force, have tremendous power to MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN. Among us are technocrats, aristocrats, computer wizards, Engineers, Scientists, bank executives, athletes, influential actors, celebrities, clergymen and women, bus drivers, freight car drivers, airline pilots, ship captains, doctors, nurses, paramedics, school teachers, military attaches, diplomats, broadcasters, media moguls, builders, architects, real estate tycoons, farmers, restaurant owners, talk show hosts, mayors, governors. You get the picture? We are POWER. POWER TO THE PEOPLE. Make this Government truly a Government for the PEOPLE and by the PEOPLE once again.
My friends, DO NOT VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT IN NOVEMBER. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME. VOTE INDEPENDENT PLEASE. DO NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA OR MCCAIN. We can prove it can be done. DO NOT be dissuaded by anyone who tells you that an independent cannot win. Isn't it supposed to be one person one vote??? Well then. Fear not. Go out in MASSIVE numbers in November and vote AGAINST the Republican and Democrat. That is the ONLY WAY we can bring about true change in the near future. If that fails, my brothers and sisters, then we the people of power will have no choice but to excercise our authority in our chosen field to bring about revolutionary change. Yes, many of us will need to sacrifice our lives in order to make that happen, so our children will inherit a truly just America and a peaceful world. I bid you goodnight but not farewell. See you on the battlefield of change.
This all sounds well and good, and the public may even be opposed to the war but there is no real public support for withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Even Obama knows it is equivocating on troop withdrawals.
For anyone that believes that iraq was about the war on terror… (has everyone forgotten the iraqi freedom thing?) but anyways… they’re all delusional… and the war in afghanistan was never about OBL… bush has gone on record saying that he doesn’t care about him anymore (don’t believe me... you tube it)… its been a way to divert our natural resources… And I’m not talking about corn... or beef… its been to divert our youth to war… and to test the limits of what we’ll take… and we’ve been taking a lot!!!
i've been advocating for a while now that its time for us to take back our lives!!!!
since the govt has intentionally declared war on the middle class and made it now a two class system ... feudalism at its best... for those that think its just about the money... it never was... its about control and power... these ppl that run the roost so to speak have more money then most ppl can even imagine... yet if you stopped to really think about it... we've been off the gold standard for a long time... so really ... money is just a fantasy... a way of having something physically tangible to help enslave a nation... if ppl feel as if they have some control over their lives they wont a… realize that they’re enslaved and b… even if they do… not buck it so much…
the problem with the majority of americans is that as soon as there is a problem... gas prices.. food poisonings... national disasters... etc… we immediately... without pause look to our govt for assistance... this has been a conditioning thats been going on for decades folks... and the other part of the coin is... a very simple roman war technique...
divide and conquer... and they've done a BANG up job!
but every once in a while... ppl will come together and realize that the govt is up to no good and then they will throw one (or a few) of their own under the bus ... we all with a nervous chuckle go... "see.... they're not ALL corrupt... our govt works and is there for us" and we go about our business not realizing that the nervous feeling in the pit of our stomach hasn’t gone away and we cant quite put our finger on whats bothering us...
with the laws that have been passed over the last few decades and ESPECIALLY those that have been passed over the last 7 plus years... we have for the first time a clear and concise picture of EXACTLY what those in "power" have in store for us... ( i.e. patriot act… eo 12919… pdd51… fisa… rex84… repeal of posse comitatus… john w. warner defense authorization act of 2006… hr1955/s1959… and on and on they go)
you dont write these types of orders… directives and legislation for the hell of it...
you dont build somewhere in the vicinity of 800 F E M A camps just for “illegal†aliens in the case of a national emergency...
with 1200 officially (more like 3000+ ppl) sick from our food sources and the F D A doesnt know where or why... yeah... and i'm the queen of venus…
and you don’t have 84% (and rising) of the country believe that the govt is lying about 911 and not wonder about whats “really†going on… I mean seriously… do you have to be a conspiracy “nutjob†to start wondering what the govt is “really†up to?
but the problem is... not only have we allowed ourselves to believe the hype... the really scary thing is... that THEY believe their own hype now!!
we hear of things like the terror watch list.. and watching military and local police work together for our "safety"... we watch elderly ppl being treated like criminals just cause they had the nerve to want to visit family in another state... how many ppl do you think actually have stopped flying because of the hassle of getting thru security..
and now that soooo many ppl are wakening to the fact that our govt has plans... not for terrorists... but for us... and none of it is for our own good or any good at all.. we're all getting nervous... and they're looking for an excuse to start their plans... to control and dominate...
new orleans/katrina was a controlled experiment to see how much the govt could get away with ... while the whole country was watching... and while they were watching us... we sat at home and for the most part... did NOTHING.... and continue to do nothing... why? because we've been conditioned to not really care about the poor of this country... or each other! i mean we feel bad... and we may send money or some "stuff" to make ourselves feel better... but how many ppl across this country came together to make a real difference in new orleans after katrina.... where are all the celebs now? mmm hmmmm... see what i mean?
how are we going to stop this? well we may be too late... we maybe past the point of no return... however i dont think for even a heart beat we should stop trying... and our old methods of protest.... well they know all our tricks and are ready... they've been making fun of "hippies" for years.... protesters are synonymous with this peace and love movement from the 60's so many don’t take them seriously anymore... (example... worried about the environment = tree hugger)
but the problem is… divide and conquer has worked so well and we’ve been conditioned to fear losing “things†so as long as ppl feel that they have something to lose... ppl will never act on masse... but here are a few things that you can do to start the ball rolling...
*** if anyone is interested... i am in the process of writing an essay of what to do in the event of the govt losing its mind and turning on the ppl and if you are interesting in hearing more... you can email me at club_a2z@msn.com or i'll post the link to my blog once its done...
so anyways... here is some of what you'll read in that essay...
first off... we can LEGALLY disengage ourselves from the tax system... taxes were never made legal... income tax was only meant to help during times of war... and once the war was over.... so was income tax.... but the govt liked the money and so they said… “shhhhh if we don’t stop collecting… they wont stop paying†… ever wonder why we're always... and i mean ALWAYS in some form of conflict around the world? yup... mostly for the money... and for those that got out of line and thought they didn’t have to pay… well you throw a few ppl in jail… and have the media make an example of them… and voila… a nation that fears a govt institution… ppl don’t question what they fear…
so how do you do this… well first… you have to get your employer to stop taking the money from you... to give to the govt... and do it legally… you can get the forms from your local “I†place or d/l from the internet... (or you can hire someone to do this for you) now the process is arduous... tons of paper work and this is why alot of ppl that do know about it dont do it.. cause its a pain in the ass... but if you're serious... there it is...
secondly... if you want to protest... the best way to get ppl rounded up and off to jail... or have the media spin it as peaceful protest gone bad inciting the govt to have to declare martial law in that area and round ppl up... and spread more fear to stop those that were considering protesting… fear… deadlier then any weapon on the planet… but i digress… instead of protesting in the streets... on 911 stay home... get the word out... organize ppl at your job... schools...etc... and then write to govt officials and media.. that ppl are protesting... well... everything... by staying home... "dropping" out in the safety of your own home... a national sick day...
its hard to incite a riot when everyone is home... and what are they going to do… start hauling ppl out of their homes and into jail for not going to work... or the grocery store… our govt is not as dumb as we think they are (another of the propaganda that’s been instilled in us… by making us believe that they’re incompetent… they’re not a threat… isn’t that wild… we fear them and think they’re stupid at the same time… insane huh?)
if s 1959 passes it will make this type of thought... speech... protest an act of terror... but for now... its sill legal... and they cant put a negative spin on protesting the govt by staying at home… I mean they’ll try… but really hard to get us to buy it…
now... instead of waiting for govts help when there is trouble... ppl start needing to do for themselves again... I call it the “barn raising daysâ€.. but how are we to do this on a community level when we're afraid of each other... start by hosting block parties... if you live in an apt building... go around to your neighbors... or maybe if your apt bldg has a rec room... plan a pot luck to get to know your neighbors... once that unknown fear element is gone... its much easier to start talking to one another... yeah… I know… we conquered our corrupt govt with a bbq… that would make for some interesting history lessons in the future… lol
buy from your local economy.... ranchers... farmers... start growing your own produce… on balconies… window sills… etc… car pool for everything! start looking into holistic remedies for minor medical problems and get the local nurses... med students and docs involved... barter services... "i'll fix your computer if you change my car battery" and on it goes… get creative… but the point is… start thinking for yourselves!!!! the biggest way that “they’ve†got us... is because we’ve forgotten some basic survival skills… start learning how to fish/hunt... start learning how to make preserves or bread… go camping... learn local foliage... figure how to get water if ever necessary... its a matter of educating yourself on how to survive and these things are not hard to do…
and most importantly… STOP throwing away your elderly!!!
there is a lot ot be learned from the wise (another trick of the govt… get rid of the wisdom in the “tribe†and we are doomed to make a lot more mistakes then necessary… also imagine the savings on day care and on putting “mom and pop†in a retirement home!)
and stop buying corp! cancel services from co’s that sponsor govt illegal activities against the citizens!
when you are shopping in a store... make a bit of a scene that you refuse to buy anything that isnt made in america... let other ppl see you doing it... it catches on rather quickly i might add... (just dont start a riot in the local sears store... cause thats the excuse they're looking for)
its time that we get control of our fear and anger... and start outsmarting them... cause really at the end of the day... the fear they've bread in us... is only because they're SO afraid of us... because they know there will come a day in time where that collective light bulb will go off and the ppl will realize... there's more of us then there are of them... ya know what i mean *winks*
our economic crisis right now... its manufactured... folks... we've been living in this maze that "they've" created for us.... and we're playing by their rules… we’ve allowed ourselves to believe the propaganda that we’re all helpless and cant survive without the govt… we’re playing the victims really well...
tired of being one...
then stop ACTING like one...
oh and btw… really really pay attention to whats happening in chicago right now… that’s the next “controlled†experiment!
How about the recent street protests in France (price of gas, wages, etc). Media coverage is important there, too.
Someone a while back (possibly Michael Moore in Sicko) said that a huge difference between France and the US is that the French government is afraid of the people, but American people are afraid of their government.
Free yourself of the images of brown people in loincloths, or of black people being scourged with fire hoses.
This is the twenty first century.
Think!!
What makes it go?!
Jack Nelson,
One little problem with nonviolence--it almost requires media coverage. If the media is in cahoots with the government... (There are, however, some wonderful exceptions to Nazi occupation of Scandanavia.)
Nonviolence worked in India, not necessarily because of internal media coverage, but because of international media coverage. So, international pressure is important.
Unfortunately with something like BushCo, it's pretty obvious they don't give a rip about international opinion--just who has put the American reputation in the toilet since the 'We Are All Americans' of 9-11?
jcrumb says 'OUT OF THE WOODWORK COMES THIS..â€BE AFRAID..BE VERY AFRAID…THE WRATH OF THE GOVERNMENT WILL WEED YOU OUTâ€'
That's why my parents keep files of the past 30 years worth of tax returns, including all the supporting papers (i.e. receipts, bank statements, etc).
jcrumb is right, where else in life do we pay out money for exactly the opposite of what we want? Everywhere else, we expect goods and services for our money. Do our tax dollars do this? Local tax dollars, maybe.
I tried writing my lawmakers in Congress. They always reply with 1-2 pages of propaganda that makes it overwhelmingly clear they never read my letter and are totally uninterested in my opinion.
Money talks. If it's the only thing that talks... well, I guess I'm with jcrumb.
Lisa unless crumb has an answer looks like you nailed him!
Beware the Ides of August.
FYI
U.S. Is Present, but Iran Nuclear Talks End in Stalemate
http://voanews.com/english/2008-07-19-voa18.cfm
I got it! J Crumb is actually the OCD history teacher, Mr. Anthony DeMartino from the Daria cartoon series! Really, for those of you who are familiar with the character just channel his voice into J Crumb's rants and see if I am not correct.
By the way J Crumb, thanks for making your posts more readable by getting the all caps key unstuck more often. Now, once you can move beyond angry rage you will make another giant step towards better discourse.
JCrumb: I went to your web-site, and it is a Sales Emporium! For fun I checked, And Yup! TAXES are added to my sales order!
I would have liked to buy your $80.00 dollar poster, but I could not afford it once you added on the taxes.
DO YOU KEEP THE TAXES YOU COLLECT JCRUMB, OR DO YOU TURN THEM OVER TO THE GOVERNMENT?
I certainly look forward to your answer!
Geeze JCrumb, didn't mean to get you so riled up. It wasn't meant to insinuate that you were a government spy or something. This is a forum where all can be heard W/O fear of getting squashed, most here are of like mind but differ on how to get to the same result. Shouting and getting pissed don't always bring your message to the masses. I've read many of your comments and can sympathize with you on your stand of not paying taxes. However, like stated above, unless a really, really large amount of folks refuse to pay them, that just won't work, the government will just get the money elsewhere through higher taxes on consumable goods and services, or by raiding social programs. Bush Co. is committed to funding this illegal war, and will get his money somewhere.
There are nationwide demonstrations starting the weekend of the 19th?
Perhaps a progressive site like CD might of thought to announce it ahead of time instead of just on the day it starts, so people could have planned to participate?
Well... at least it is an improvement over CD's former policy of publishing a piece after the fact.
Could we all try to help each other progressives?
Someday?
I am thrilled to hear a positive bit of news. I live far away, and cant join them. But I very much appreciate the efforts of those who are doing something. I applaud them!!!! Anything you can do. Whatever you can do!
@dumbshit July 19th, 2008 1:04 pm
"I am certain that the champions of democracy and free speech will
soon erase my comments and ban me from posting."
So thats it? That is the most you can do with your "free speech"? Well I
suppose you DO have to live up to your name!
Well, too much to address here. Briefly, the US Congress has totally abrogated its Constitutional duties for decades.
Read Art 1, Sec 8 of the US Constitution. A reasonable person who had an IQ over 75 would think that only the Congress could declare a war. But, the US Congress is now a joke that we can not seem to fix. The choices are:
1) Evil NeoCon Republicans
2) Craven coward Democrats.
This nation has "dumbed down" so far that there is no salvation. Example: There is NO evidence of the wreckage of a large commercial airplane either in PA (Flt 93), or at the Pentagon (Flt 77). NONE. If one mentions this, they are labeled as "conspiracy theorists". Hell, the 911 Commission report, written by Bush's handpicked Zionist Zelikow, is a theory. This nation no longer operates for the benefit of its citizens, first and foremost. It is captive to shadowy and secretive elements who totally rule with stunning wealth, lies, evasions, deception and pure evil. I can not find any hope. We are in serious decline. Dozens, if not more, captives of the US military and CIA were tortured and beaten to death in the so-called war on terror. Yet, the Republican Congress in 2006 passed a law that made this all not punishable.
The rule of law is, in fact, the rule of a few in power. Take a look at Yoo, and Addington, and Mukasey. Read now retired MG Taguba's assessment of war crimes. This will all go unpunished because, even if Obama is the next President, he will not have the courage, or will, to dig to the bottom of the rabbit hole and tell the truth.
Poor deluded, dumb, and blind anti-war progressives. My God, are these people idiots. The real wars are in Iraq and Afghanistan. It does not matter whether Obama or McCain will be come our next president, the killing in Iraq will continue albeit at a lower level and the killing in Afghanistan will develop towards a vile crescendo. That is what you should demonstrate against, you morons.
"block I95 and CNN will be there in a heartbeat."
That my friends says it all except maybe turning the TV off ; that ironically may be the hardest.
They can't put thousands of people in jail for not paying their "fair share"--AND the wealthy's share. But, again, how the hell do you round up hundreds of thousands of people so that there is "safety in numbers"? If we don't stick together we don't stick!
The protests before Iraq didn't work because there weren't enough protests or people protesting. Most of us didn't think Dubya was really gonna pull the trigger, or still bought the 9/11 Fox News sort of propaganda. Quite a few still do.
Even now, most people want to believe, that given enough time, we will get out of Iraq with some sort of peaceful, pro west, secular democracy in place. Wide eyed patriotic young people still sign up for the military, and believe they have a mission to make a better world.
Protesting could have opposite the intended effect. Cheney wants his legacy to be US-Israeli dominance of the ME with oil and gas managed by American compnaines and flowing to the US. Even if it means Iraq and Iran become perpetual developing countries despite their vast oil reserves. He doesn't care about public opinion, and if he believes the next administration will change course, he's going to push this thing for all he's worth.
BTW jcrumb: If I told my employer to stop paying my income and SS witholding to protest the possible bombing of Iran, they would laugh me out of the office. Besides Dubya spends tons more money than taxes, social security and fees bring in already. Whats another few hundred million on the deficit? He doesn't care.
sLiMsHaDy July 19th, 2008 4:50 pm
-yea, you're right, who cares about the screaming, can't hear it anyway. i went jcrumb's website, looks pretty cool.
I agree, he's on to something with the not paying taxes. I like the idea of withholding the amount that funds the warring and the whoring.
That dumbshit was wrong!
Include Afghanistan. Our leading presidential twits want to send more troops there. I say get 'em all out --as there are easier ways for us to get our gas and oil. True, the big oil gangsters wont be happy but screw em.
It's exactly five hours and 2 minutes since *dumbshit* posted his rant, and despite his prediction that it would be deleted- it's still there.
Apt name.
I voted for Obama in the primary, but I'm starting to think (and be convinced) that this is the wrong decision in November. I was skeptical when reading posts about voting for a 3rd party, but it slowly started to sink in. Bill Moyers program on PBS this weekend talked about the government bail out of Bears N Sterns, Freddie Mae, and Freddie Mac and talked about the desperate situation to the foreclosures (people) in the Cleveland area. The program goes on to make the point that the tax money bails out the corporations, but does nothing for the tax payers as individuals, because the corporations can do this again and again.
Most people have already acknowledged the shift in the last several decades from the individual to the corporations, and although I've thought and felt this for a while too, it's obvious the game is over as we know it. This is not doom and gloom. Bill Moyers interviewed someone on his program who writes for the Nation, and he talked about the "sin" in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism that speaks about the wealthy over powering the poor, and we had a law in the U.S. that was over turned in the 80's that had the same name (concept)...i forget the term they used.
I don't have the answer, and I know Obama is my favorite candidate, but I also know he can't change any of this himself. No one person can make this change. Did the Soviet Union fall due to economic reasons? Did it fall because it failed to meet the needs of the people? There are many different answers and no simple way to explain it. Every organization has a life cycle. Every system of thought has its dangers. Corruption hits organizations whether its corporate, government, or religion. I want to believe we are going to pull ourselves out of this by electing Obama, and I smile typing this, knowing it won't happen. I'm not an anarchist or a political thought leader. I can only hope I live with dignity and help other humans while this takes place.
Undecided
Dwayne Chandler; Hello. Do you know what a "concrete plan of action to resist the brutality of Imperialism" would be?
Include:
Pleasing God.
What is Morally Right.
And,
a mechainism powerful enough to redistribute all the wealth downward, and overcome everything "they" will do to hang on to America and the World's wealth. (not 'theirs')
Figuring 'they' will have the US armed forces, police, national guard, intel services and blackwater arrayed against 'us,'
I'm thinking we'll do this with Strongly Worded petitions.
Or VIGOROUS letter campaigns to our elected representatives.
Am I on the right track here?
Yeah, head for the streets, sit down and sing songs, chant and beat drums, yell snarky slogans and put on masks.
It worked so well to keep us out of Iraq.
I'm not as loud as Mr. Crumb and I will say this: I believe that until the pain is felt somewhere but in our homes, until action is taken that demands the attention of those pulling the levers and twirling the dials, they are just going to close the windows, pull the shades and keep right on doing what they are doing.
They did it in Iraq, twice, and they'll do it again.
This is the most inventive population in the world, the most technically sophisticated and capable generation that ever lived. I'm afraid we are past the time for street demonstrations, sit ins and protest marches. It is time for this generation to engage itself in disrupting the systems that allow for the business to go on as usual.
Maybe witholding money will work, I don't know.
However ....
The action MUST be non-violent. Did you hear me ...?!! It MUST be NON-violent! Non-violence is not the pie-in-the-sky, holier-than-thou idealism of a sky pilot. I'm not used to formulating this into language so I may not say it well.
Non-violence separates the resistance from the oppressor. The oppressor will use violence, people will be killed. That violence must never be met with violence. I don't know how to say why, it is not idealism, though, it is clarity. Just as we have lowered ourselves to the level of our "enemies" by adopting their tactics in this "Global War of Terrorism" so will we be dragged to the level of the oppressor if we return violence for violence. Believe it or not, violence is the easy response.
We, as a bright and capable and knowledgeable people must begin to interrupt the wheels of war peacefully and effectively. Killing doesn't stop killing. Violence doesn't stop war.
Think. Be brilliant. Talk to each other. Use what you know and share it. Discover what you don't know. DON'T HURT THE PEOPLE! Disrupt the machinery!
Figure out what needs to be stopped for our country to return to itself.
Do that.
"...but I don’t care for the way you scream it at everyone."
You HEAR screaming? Why not just read it in any type of "voice" that would suit you better? I think that withholding of tax monies is a great idea.
jcrumb July 19th, 2008 1:14 pm
Before your idea can be seriously considered we need to know what can happen? If you have children going to jail for example, it may not be a good idea, now is it jcrumb? Do you know what the punishment is for failure to pay your taxes?
I actually like the idea, but I don't care for the way you scream it at everyone. Screaming doesn't induce people to buy an idea. Ideas need to be sold. Keep screaming and you'll be ignored.
Start by informing people about the consequences. Nobody is going to go blinding leaping off a bridge because jcrumb is screaming at them to do it.
I also have another idea, what if we refuse to pay the portion of our tax bill tht goes to pay for the war only? Just an idea.
Yes! FEAR ME! HOOhhahahahahhahaa...Koo-koo ca-choo I am the EGG man..I am the Egg man......I am the WALRUS..koo-koo-ka choo..
I agree with FRANK1569..completely..that IS a great way..OUT em is what i call that..and I LOOOVE to do that..i truly do...I love to go to the parking areas and SPIT all over their Cadillacs..right on the drivers side window...can't miss it..and it don't look like birdshit...i liketo Micro-pamphlet..as per the US army field manual on that topic of Counter Insurgency.."propaganda" if I had any friends i would do PIRATE BILLBOARDS..this is BIG fantasy of mine..but REQUIRES...help..a difficult task..but OOOH lala..would that be sweet..sor of cynical almost official looking messages that actually scare he shit out of people..GAWD wish i had some friends...my feline is incapable of driving a getawy vehicle..oh well..but YES..FRANK...take it to em..this is very effective..it really is..and I HAVE been arrested for that..as well as..got into a fairly serious fist fight witha Pitchfork wielding grounds keeper on too much Kool-Aid...defending his masters from we peasents...a real...house ******..sorry..but its' true..
Fear is the mind killer, Fear is the little death..I will take STRENGTH from my fear..my fear becomes my POWER..not your fear..my OWN fear..I AM AFRAID! folks...Yeah! I AM AFRAID! No question about it..i do not do..what i am doing..CASUALLY...LIGHTLY...I KNOW that money is power..and I know that they must have your money to do what they are doing...I do not know..what else to do..i refuse to WASTE TIME..i will not STAND motionless on a sidewalk and believe that it makes a goddamn bit of difference..it is..I am sorry to say..I truly am...it is PATHETIC!..they are being LAUGHED at..not TAKEN SERIUOSLY...but MONEY?..THAT is SERIOUS BUSINESS..pure and simple..and NON-VIOLENT, and..quite possibly..completley legal..there is a great deal of debate currently on the issue of the ACTUAL legality of Un Apportioned taxation..and THUS FAR the IRS itself..REFUSES to show or name ANY law that say's you HAVE o pay an income tax..and thus..they use PREDATORY COERCION to get tha money..for 80 plus years...
I am not going to waste time with meaningless protest...if your employer "auto_deducts" your income tax..I am sorry..it is very difficult for you...but..this is the only REAL way to regain representation..to MAKE them spend our money...the way we want them to...end of story...they aren't laughing about that..nope!..and that...in the final analysis..is my MOTIVE..non-violent....serious protest!
THE KIND THEY CANNOT IGNORE..AND THE KIND THEY TAKE SERIOUSLY...LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE HEY MAY..GIVE ME LIBERTY...OR.......................
FUCK EM ALL..FUCK EM RIGHT IN THE EAR!
JCrumb is right, mostly, but we could do without the screaming - save that for the streets. Revolution means sacrifice and courage. Sure, the Fed will always retaliate - that's the point. The more who protest by withholding their taxes, the more the Fed will fight and expose their true colors to more people who will then get angry and join the fight.
But "not paying" also means not buying Exxon gas, not shopping Wal Mart, divesting from all corrupt corporations, pulling your cash from the banking thieves, and monkeywrenching the system at every turn - filing lawsuits, etc. In other words, if we want "change," we're gonna have to fight hard and relentlessly.
With regards to this essay - a weekend protest here and there ain't worth shit. Protests need to be daily, loud and nationwide. They need to happen not just at "city hall," but at the residences of "representatives," at their favorite restaurants and country clubs, and in areas that get lots of media attention, like the freeway - block I95 and CNN will be there in a heartbeat.
Unless the Fed sees that We The People are seriously on the warpath from a variety of angles 24/7, they'll continue their march towards total fascism without blinking.
Jesse...you scare me!
OOOps..One more thing Ed...Uhhhh..Do you..or does ANYONE really believe that I or..any "poster" would ned to give a "reason" or rather to "create" a reason at THIS POINT for the "government" to do extreme acts of violence and civil rights abuse to any and all PROTEST? Really? you REALLY think that? that is jut IT! they don't CARE anymore...you can be walking down the street and be SEARCHED..it no longe REQUIRES a "reason"...do you really think 'tax Protest" i going to be the "reason" that som MASS round-up of "protestors" is going to occur? sheeeit..all you need to do is be 3rd party to be singled out..20,000 names a MONTH folks..the WATCH LIST GROWS..according the the ACLU..oh..and by the way..I AM A CARD CARRYING MEMBER...SO..ADD THAT TO MY "CRIMES" AGAINST THE CORPORATE FASCIT THEOCRACY..
NO! Eddy1793..I think your "purpose" is QUITE clear..I am..wait! what's that?...do you hear somehing? oh my GAWD!...No! it's...it's...THE BIG FLAT FOOT!!!!! ARGHHHHHHH! Run for your LIVES! It LIVES!...Nooooooooo! Ahhhhhheeeeeeeek!
(sound of breaking glass...as apartment is demolished by giant Jack Boot..)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA EDWARD1793..(BY THE WAY..THAT WILL LOOK GOOD ON YOUR ORANGE JUMPSUIT)..I THINK YOU ARE THE PIG..YOU!..NOT ME..ARE MAKING PEOPLE AFRAID WITH THE STATEMENT YOU MADE...DUHHHH..AND AS FOR ME..I AM..FORTUNATE..AS WELL AS UNFORTUNATE..TO HAVE A "PEDIGREE"..MY FOLKS ARE...SO FAR INTO THE "PROTEST MOVEMENT' THAT IT'S PRACTICALLY A BIRTHRIGHT..MY FATHER WAS ON NIXONS LIST..AND WAS PERSUED BY THE IRS..GIVE ME A BREAK..
'GETTING A BAD FEELING'...WOW! TALK ABOUT PSYCHELOGICAL WARFARE...YOU HAVE DIRECTLY STATED..ESSENTIALLY..THAT 'PEOPLE SHOULD...SHOULD BE AFRAID..THEY SHOULD NEVER 'BRING DOWN THE WRATH OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'..WOW!...WHILE I ON THE OTHER HAND..AM STATING..CATEGORICALLY..THAT FEAR IS..IS..IS..IS THE REASON PEOPLE ARE NOT ENDING THIS NOW, BY ENDING THE FUNDING..I CAN PROVE WHO I AM..IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING TO HAVE ME DO? CAN YOU PROVE WHO YOU ARE...?? AND AS FOR A "WAR" JEEZIS..I WOULD NEVER WASTE ANOTHER WORD..I AM DEFENDING MYSELF AGAINST A RIDICULOUS 'CHARGE' THIS ONE TIME....GO TO WAR WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO..IT'S YOUR RIGHT..BUT I AM NEVER GONNA STOP SAYING THAT THE ONLY WAY TO REGAIN "REPRESENTAION" IS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE MONEY..AS THAT RESPONSIBLITY HAS BEEN ABDICATED BY CONGRESS..
YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE..I FIND IT REALLY INTERESTING THAT..AS SOON AS..FINALLY..PEOPLE SEEM TO START TO "GET IT" ACTUALLY AGREEING FOR ONCE..THAT MONEY IS THE KEY...HMMMM...OUT OF THE WOODWORK COMES THIS.."BE AFRAID..BE VERY AFRAID...THE WRATH OF THE GOVERNMENT WILL WEED YOU OUT" STATEMENT..HMMMM...THAT IS....ODD?
'THE BIG FLAT FOOT.."..EEEEEEK!
SO..WHOMEVER YOU ARE...THERE IS A FUCKING MOVIE ABOUT MY CRAZY ASS FAMILY..I DO NOT NEED TO DEFEND MY "MOTIVES" TO YOU..OR ANYONE..MONEY IS THE KEY..IT IS THE ENTIRE GAME...IT IS A FORGONE CONCLUSION...IF YOU ARE THE FEDERAL LOYALIST THEN YOU ALREADY KNOW FULL WELL WHO I AM..IF NOT..THEN WHY CONDEMN AN IDEA WHO'S TIME IS NOW...AND ADVOCATE FEAR...? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? WHY? WHY FOCUS SOLELY ON THE FEAR FACTOR?...ABSOLUTELY THERE IS FEAR..HAVE I NOT SAID THIS OVER AND OVER?...I DUNNO WHAT...YOUR POINT IS..MAYBE THIS IS YOUR FORM OF RATIONALIZATION..ATTACK THE IDEA..BEFORE YOU HAVE TO FACE THE REALITY THAT YOU..ARE IN FACT..JUST SIMPLY TOO AFRAID TO ACT...SO..MAKE OTHERS DOUBT THE EFFICIENCY OF FISCAL POWER...BUT..
YOU SOUND MORE LIKE THE "AGENT PROVACATEUR" TO ME...YOU HAVE TRIED TO..MAKE PEOPLE AFRAID OF ME..FIRST..AND THEN...TO MAKE THEM AFRAID TO ACT ON AN IDEA...YO HAVE GIVEN A "SUPPORTING" ARGUEMENT FOR NOT MAKING A FINANCIAL STATEMENT...AGAIN...HMMMMM..?? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?
I CAN ALMOST VISUALIZE THE "PROTOCOL" SHEET IN FRONT OF YOU EDWARD1793....SITTING IN YOUR CUBICLE.."POINTS TO USE IF SUBJECT ADVOCATES FINANCIAL/TAX RESISTANCE" "POINT 1...DISCREDIT SUBJECT.." ETC..ETC..ETC..ARE YOU..FEDERAL LOYALIST CLERK ARMY? WELL..WHATEVER..THIS IS GETTING REDUNDANT UPON REDUNDANT..I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE...AND ANYWAY...YOU CANNOT HIDE ANY LONGER...SO...EDWARD...DO WHAT YOU WILL...MAKE PEOPLE AFRAID...TRY TO MAKE ME AFRAID..I DO NOT CARE..I REFUSE..AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES..TO LIVE IN FEAR..ANY LONGER..LIBERTY IS WORTH NON-VIOLENT AMERICAN TRADITION TAX PROTEST...IT SURELY IS...SO DRINK SOME MORE REFRESHING KOOL-AID..AND KEEP ON SWINGING.....
AYYYYYY BATTER-BATTER-BATTER..SUH-WIIING!....STRIKE!
Surrender says:
"gas-buying strikes, food buying-strikes, blow up the T.V.’s and get news ONLY online, NEVER support corporations such as Wal-Mart or any war-mongering, weapons-building corporations, and more and more logical “hold-back-the-money†ideas to hit ‘em where it hurts most.
The problem? The rub? Getting people en masse to get past their FEAR of not paying taxes"
Great ideas!
If people really did all the things you advocate, (including barter and growing their own food), as I and many others are trying to do...We could actually live without the filthy government lucre - and wouldn't have to pay taxes!
Life without a TV is great - I highly recommend it. There is so much beauty and wonder in the world - if you just try to see it. Dump your car and walk, it's very healthy.
These creeps in industry and government would crawl back under their rocks if everyone withdrew from the system. But EVERYONE has to believe that it is possible. This is what happened in the 60's. There were enough people ready to drop out, that THEY were forced to listen. Then THEY figured out how to sell us back our "Revolution" as a commodity, and just do their crimes undercover, and make recreational substances in a legal pharmacuitical form! We're more aware of these manipulations now.
This is the most important lesson to teach children. Follow the money and see through the lies that are everywhere. See how you, and everyone else, are being manipulated....by the carrot and the stick = marketing and FEAR. A Brave New World for the masses, combined with a 1984 police state! There are alternatives if we understand how fundamentally weak those in power really are. They know they can't operate without our complicity.
But we must act before it's too late. Unless you want a Blackwater "community safety" station in every neighborhood, and Halliburton workhouses for the poor!
Protests accomplish a lot contrary to what many posters here are saying, but these are split protests with one group calling for actions this week, and the other one calling for regional rallies August 2, which is the following week.
Besides, these are hardly much protest at all here with UFPJ mainly calling for lobbying what they consider their good friends, The Democratic Party. What these 'protests' are mainly about is supposedly putting a little bit of pressure on the Democrat polis, which is a loser strategy for mobilizing people in any real way.
Yes, the UFPJ mainly wants to mobilize people to go vote Democratic Party in November and lacks both the will and ability to build any real protest at all. I might add that here in Colorado they are hardly moving in organizing protest at the Democratic Party Denver Convention. Once again, the strategy is to get people to vote for these crooks and war criminals rather than get people to protest against them.
Edward - Why do you think the US now has the Microwave Area Denial Systems ready to go?
Dissent is now a capital crime in the US.
Last time I heard someone in the protest crowd trying to incite folks to break the law, it wasn't one of the protesters, it was a Law Enforcement agent provocateur trying to get the crowd to do something illegal so they could be stepped on by the giant 'flat foot' of the government.
Inciting folks to not pay taxes is a sure fire way to bring down the wrath of the government JCrumb, or at least weed out some of them.
I'm not wanting to start a war with you but you've brought this up several times now, and I'm getting a bad feeling about it.
I bet the protests won't be as big as the ones against the Iraq war and we all know how that turned out.
Protests don't work. The only two things that work are 1-not paying taxes and 2-a g*E*n*eral stR&&ike.
I wrote my Sen. & Rep both Dem. and Rep. The answers, the ones returned and replied to, appeared to come from the same Press Release Agent. Almost carbon copies. A lot of, "We have to understand that............."We" no longer includes me.
ThomasMc: I'm afraid We The People no longer run the country; it is an old theory gone to rot. I agree with the EXTREMELY VEHEMENT jcrumb above that tax resistance is one of the only tools we have to TRULY get the attention of the Greedy and make the changes necessary to take back "our" running of the country.
Others would be: gas-buying strikes, food buying-strikes, blow up the T.V.'s and get news ONLY online, NEVER support corporations such as Wal-Mart or any war-mongering, weapons-building corporations, and more and more logical "hold-back-the-money" ideas to hit 'em where it hurts most.
The problem? The rub? Getting people en masse to get past their FEAR of not paying taxes and be willing to seriously group together to make strikes effective. Personally, in an Amerikan Idol/Sports-addicted World, I can't imagine it happening.