Deployment of Aircraft Carrier a US ‘Reminder’ to Iran, Says Gates
The US defence secretary, Robert Gates, said yesterday the deployment of a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf could serve as a “reminder” to Iran of American resolve to defend its interests in the region.
Gates denied the arrival of a new carrier represented an escalation, pointing out that US naval strength in the Gulf rises and falls constantly with routine naval deployments, but it comes at a time of heightened rhetoric from Washington about Iran’s role in the Iraqi insurgency.
In the next few days US officers in Baghdad are expected to mount a display of recently-made Iranian arms alleged to have been seized from insurgents.
CBS News reported the Pentagon has ordered commanders to explore new options for attacking Iran and that the state department was formulating an ultimatum calling on Iran to stop arms smuggling into Iraq. The reports were denied by US officials.
In the past few days senior administration officials have made a series of pointed remarks about the Iranian role in Iraq. Gates himself claimed: “What the Iranians are doing is killing American servicemen and women inside Iraq.”
During a visit to Mexico the defence secretary was asked if the carrier deployment was coordinated with the rhetoric from Washington. He replied: “I don’t see it as an escalation. I think it could be seen, though, as a reminder.”
The tough talk on Iran comes just before a meeting of ministers from the permanent five members of the UN security council and Germany to discuss incentives for Iran to suspend its work on uranium enrichment.
The focus on incentives reflects a realisation in London and Washington that there is not sufficient support in the Security Council for more sanctions against Iran. However, the new package is unlikely to differ from the one currently on the table, which includes economic incentives, help with the establishment of a nuclear energy programme based on technology that does not have military applications, and direct talks with the US on a range of strategic issues.
Security Council officials spoke yesterday in terms of the incentives being “refreshed” rather than enhanced. Few diplomatic observers believe they will have any more impact than the sanctions imposed so far.
Tehran insists its nuclear programme is intended for purely peaceful energy generation, and claims it is within its rights to pursue its development. Earlier this month Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad signalled his defiance of the Security Council by visiting the country’s nuclear facility at Natanz to inspect a new upgraded centrifuge, the IR-2, capable of enriching uranium faster than the earlier model bought from Pakistan.
In official pictures Iran’s defence minister, Mostafa Mohammad-Najjar, can be seen taking part in the tour. His participation was highlighted by some western officials, who argued it conflicted with Iran’s insistence that the programme is for exclusively peaceful purposes.
Vincent Cannistraro, a former senior CIA official now a security analyst, said the conflicting signals coming from Washington reflected longstanding divisions in the Bush administration, that have not been resolved by the publication of a National Intelligence Estimate last year that Iran’s weapons programme had been dormant since 2003. The NIE has been privately disowned by President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney, who still leads the remaining hawks in the administration.
“Cheney believes this administration has to take military action against Iran before it leaves office. Gates echoes the rhetoric publicly but he doesn’t support Cheney’s position,” Cannistraro said.
© 2008 The Guardian
A U.S.reminder to Iran that we have loose cannons in the gulf?
More bullying and threatening gestures from the world’s superpower. Iran is no threat just as Iraq was no threat.
I said it before and will say it again.Asshole criminals.Tony
A reminder of the Alamo?
Some countries have evolved with time, become more civilised, recognised that diplomacy and detente are important. The US on the other hand, has regressed back into medieval times, maybe further.
I just wish that one of the other major powers would step in and do something, kind of like a “Cuban missile crisis” in reverse.
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is a Godsend.
The Iraqi government is finally getting organized and they’ve decided not to include the militias that undermine and destabilize them. General Petraeus and our troops are working with the Iraqi government to achieve this end.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki sent a delegation to talk with the Iranians today. Secretary Gates is “reminding” the Iranians of the potential cost of interfering.
With any luck we will soon have a new President and a new strategy in Iraq and everywhere else.
I can’t wait to see what they trot out as evidence of Iran arming “Shiite Militias.”
Obviously, the most dangerous things need to be revealed at highly organized, heavily promoted press conferences. That gives the military an edge fighting against them. Yeah.
I hope they’ll have a band and some neat CG animations! And some swag bags with little flags and pocket bibles and little packs of beef jerky!
USA, USA!
Another carrier group is more high value targets potentially within range of Iranian weapons. Perhaps the idea is to have a combined naval/air/special ops campaign, resulting in losses to the US Navy in ships and personnel as one of the intended results. This would restrict oil shipments greatly, driving up the price who knows how much, and the tab would be picked up by the typical taxpayer, with the profits going to the war nuts.
I used to think such an idea was totally crazy, but no longer. They are not all incompetent in the Repub cabal, they include smart psychopaths as well as delusionists (fools) and morons.
Don’t think a lot of the US military are not for this. Many dread the losses, a few the casualties on the other side, but many thirst for revenge already. A major military clash with Iran will inflame the strong lust for revenge inculcated into them during their training and deployment.
“a reminder to Iran of American resolve to defend its interests in the region.”
Should read, America’s positioning of an aircraft carrier to the gulf should remind the Iranians we will continue our illegal occupation of a sovereign nation state, and if the Iranians will not get their act together and start to play ball… we are within striking distance.
-James
www.thepoliticus.org
It looks like Israel and Syria want a comprehensive peace now but Bush is blocking it!
Check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZA2bWH7szk
Even the Mossad wants to talk to Hamas but Bush nixed that too.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8F0A07C0-1310-47D3-91F4-67238E060CC9.htm
And it looks like the nuclear plant in Syria might be another lie. Well see.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/04/syria-more-ques.html
Now it is becoming apparent why even the Zionists are distancing themselves from Bush.
Shalom
“Arsenal of Hypocrisy” - 59 min - Apr 23, 2006
Bruce Gagnon - http://arsenalofhypocrisy.com/index.asp
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4835966027154828456&q=arsenal+of+hypocrisy+bruce+gagnon+space+nasa
This is a must see video….exposing the staggering nature of the lies…the MIC’s real intentions….
Redundancy: They’re banking on losing one carrier to Sunburn/Exocet missiles.
Attacking Iran is a part of a larger plan to dominate the Middle East oil. Iran will be attacked by the U.S. Stock up on food supplies, water, and medicine now. The American economic elites believe in world domination and have no intention of avoiding a Middle East conflagration. Instead they seek it.
Vote for Peace
If we want more peace then we need to make sure that who ever we offer our vote in the next election is some one who values and is dedicated to peace.
We can see quite clearly that the present Administration is not committed to peace but to war. You just need to see their attitudes, the way they go around with dealing with situations like Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc.
We need to be clear about how we want to deal with situations like Iraq or Iran. Is armed conflict the only solution left to us?.
Are they other ways to conceive solutions to problems?. There are, there is no doubt about it but it depends if there is the will.
An Administration committed to peace will restore negotiations, will open path to intelligent and constructive proposals, will build relationships, not based on only our interests, but on the interests of all. People can see this, they can see if you are honest or not, whether you are American, Arab, Jew, or Iranian, your actions speak about who and how you are.
Let us look at the situation with Iran: what is the Real situation in Iran right now? (remember that we perceived things in Iraq that didn’t exist after all).
Do we really know and understand Iran?. There are many important aspects to this. Let us be truly intelligent, let us be truly honest with our motivations. Look at the horrific mess the Bush Administration has created in Iraq, worse than 2 life times of Saddam Hussein.
We, as ordinary Americans, we are completely ignorant to the reality of suffering of our fellow human beings in that country; the chaos and bloodshed we, inadvertently, allowed to create.
If we had a President and an Administration truly committed to peace, they will find ways to deal with these conflicts in ways that will foster peace, communication and stability, not to mention happiness, safety, and wellbeing for countless people.
This Administration will understand a wider concept to the word: American Interests , because they will understand that any true long term interest lies in creating conditions where people will find that their lives have a certain quality ( basic human needs, basic human rights ). This Administration will also understand that there are many different ways of seeing and living these concepts, because behind every country there is a history and a culture, we cannot always judge from the perspective of our culture and life style only.
An intelligent administration will also understand a wider web of complexity to a situation. Coming back to Iran, we can recognize that we have already a history together; we need to understand this history and see if we are dealing intelligently with our communication with them. Having or not having a nuclear weapon is only one small part of the picture. Why do they want to develop a nuclear weapon? ( if this is truly what they want ); could it be that they feel threatened?. <>. So there could be quite a variety of reasons (maybe even good reasons, some of which our country would also follow) for having an additional “tool” for self-defense and/or attack. Aren’t we doing the exact thing?, isn’t it us who want to create new nuclear devices, a new missile system in Europe?.
If this is the situation: that Iran feels it could do with a better deterrent weapon; that anybody intending to change things in their country or their close surroundings, will think twice about it; then the administration committed to peace will be clear about its intentions; will work hard at creating better and wider scope relationships with the countries in the area –without the need to invade-.
Money, influence (political, economic, ideological or religious) cannot be the only base and interest.
If we play by those cards, how can we then be surprised by the reactions of others? Who can condemn others from doing the same as us?.
An Administration who is truly interested in peace will understand the difference between business and exploitation or mutual benefit; that our long-term interests lie also in the relationship not only to the rulers or Governments of those countries but also in the relationship with the common folks of that country.
May all Beings be Happy.
1) The use of force or the THREAT of the use of force is illegal under international law.
2) The US has NO LEGITIMATE INTERESTS outside their own borders. The sooner that becomes an accepted fact, the better off we’ll all be.
Perpetual war for perpetual corporate profits with a complicit media promoting fear and antagonism, it’s called Fascism.
@Jim Glover
Egypt, Former President Jimmy Carter and others are helping out peace talks now; apparently the White House is not helping out.
Is it possible the Syrian reactor is a WalMart?
I wish we could ‘deploy’ several millions Americans to the streets of DC as a ‘reminder’ that the citizens of this country think the current war was a mistake and that it should end …. and not start a bigger war intead.
rebelnow, technically that may be true, but you really need a new word for it. It’s too easy for too many people to see differences and never be able to believe it. You need a word with less of a historical pidgeon-hole for naysayers to hide it in. Fascism is like a brand name, complete with swastika logo and the colour red and death trains and all that.
As an abstraction, if you called all personal music players Walkmans, you could never know when you had an iPod. In the same way, if you continue to refer to all totalitarian police states as Fascist, you’ll never come up with a way to describe the new improved thing you’ve got.
You’d never see it in the pro-Likudnik US corporate media, but there’s been a debate in Israel over the last couple of years about making peace with Syria. And one of the things consistently blocking that idea has been the Bush administration saying “don’t you dare do that” to Israel.
“1) The use of force or the THREAT of the use of force is illegal under international law.”
If we were still a nation of laws, it would be an impeachable offense.
Here’s why. There’s a clause in the US Constitution that says any treaty the US enters into becomes the ‘highest law in the land’. The UN Charter is a treaty that was duly ratified by the US Senate. Its the UN Charter that has the clause saying its illegal to even mass troops on a nation’s borders and make threats. Invading and attacking is also of course illegal. But just making threats also violates the UN Charter.
As such, it is the highest law in the land in the US also that this is illegal. Its not just a violation of international law, its a violation of the Constitution. In other words, its an impeachable offense.
The failure of the US Congress to pursue its responsibilities to impeach the President for already violating the UN Charter several times with regard to Iraq makes the members of the US Congress accessories to this crime.
If you are considering who to vote for, note carefully that both possible Democratic Presidential candidates have expressed support for this very recently.
Hillary of course endorsed the mass murder by weapons of mass destruction of all 70,000,000 Iranians. Obama endorsed the General (Petreus that is) that Bush has put into place to lead the attack.
If you want something different, don’t vote Democrat.
All you “liberals” just keep voting for spineless democrats and I’m sure something will change.
This is what bullies do. They stick their finger in your chest and give a little push, then they push with the open hand, then when you push back or throw a punch you started it and then they can open up with their entire arsenal. These bullies need to be spanked and sent to their room - a small room with bars.
Samson: More encouraging news about Israel and internal and external opposition to its action.
A new PAC and lobbying group called J-Street (jstreet.org) has formed to act as a counter to AIPAC’s pro-Zionist propaganda and to work toward peace and justice for both Israel and the Palestinians. Its PAC will identify, and support financially, candidates for public office who agree with it instead of with Israel’s hard-liners and US supporters of its oppression of the Palestinian people.
I wonder what it takes to feed and fuel the destruction of a country half way around the world. The price of food and fuel seems to be the destruction of a country right here.
GO USA GO ! Another war ? Why not ?
The Iranians will not be easy, just as good ole Saddam was not easy as the USA is now finding the truth of this aggression, and if I may say so, the USA must really wished they did not invade Iraq.
Yes go on and invade Iran or better still bonb, bonb, Iran !
I don’t know if you in the US are aware of this, but Kofi Annan, the head of the UN, last night announced, that in his opinion the war on Iraq was illegal. He gave reasons, and mentioned the very things which Sampson has highlighted in his post (May 1st 3.35 P.M.).
Now I, and many others would believe that the US is behaving in the same manner to Iran and Syria - making open threats, massing troops, sending carrier groups to the Gulf.
We should be asking ourselves, is it really Iran or the US who is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the World?
gde
“A major military clash with Iran will inflame the strong lust for revenge inculcated into them during their training and deployment.”
I am pretty certain you know very little about the motivations of military personnel.
Samski
“They’re banking on losing one carrier to Sunburn/Exocet missiles.”
The Iranian military doesn’t possess either of these missle types. Their main missle threat to surface ships comes from a battery of Chinese manufactured Silkworm missles based at Bandar Abbas in the Straits of Hormuz. This is a variation of the Russian designed SS-2 Styx.
Great Points ~SAMSON and ANDY UK~.
A friend of ours was discharged 24 years ago after a three year tour of duty in the Army and was placed in the in-active reserves. All honorably discharged militay, including those who have retired are in the “in-active” reserves, whether they had been drafted or were volunters
We are pleased to know, he has been re-called to active duty and will be on his merry way to Iraq in four days to protect us from terrorism. He’s 46 years of age and not in the best shape for combat duty.
He’s leavng his small privately owned business, which requires his daily attendance and leaving his wonderful family for at leat 15 months, but he’s filling a much needed slot. We cannot afford to have Iraq attack us “again”. He might even get some ribbons or a medal and a promotion. ___ It’s not all bad. If he comes home alive, he’ll be able to declare bankrupsy.
Unbelievable arrogance!
“American resolve to defend its interests in the region” as if it is America’s oil under the Middle East soil!
Kem - that is a truly shocking story, how on earth can you be recalled at 46, when you are not combat fit (no disrespect, but you do deteriorate a bit in advancing years).
What does he or his family think about this situation? Is this happening, because they can’t recruit or train enough young cannon fodder, for their “most amazing adventures”?
Hi ~Kendpotter~. Are those Chinese Silkworm anti-ship missiles even more effective, faster and more deadly than the French Exocet jobs? I understand they are, but you would be more informed to give us the info. If we start any stupid crap with Iran, it would not surprise me to see us lose more than one carrier. Then a full blown nuclear war could easily result.
Our Conress and some military leaders are crazy. I do honestly wonder if the majority are using mind altering drugs.
The Pentagon is loaded with Megalomanics.
Let’s show Iran that we have not 1, but 2 Supercarriers in their home waters.
Let’s show them that we have 1,000 WMP loaded on missles aimed at their population centers.
Let’s drop a hundred (100) Bunker Blasters on their governmemt buildings and Mosques.
Let’s bomb Iran back to the Stone Ages …”shock and awe”
See my penis is bigger than theirs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
Yes indeed, “Dreamertoo”(6th from top) and be sure you check to see what the tooth fairy has left under your pillow tonight.
Yes indeed, “Dreamertoo”(6th from top) and be sure you check to see what the tooth fairy has left under your pillow tonight.
Kem, I have often wondered about this scenario:
The US provokes Iran - sinks a small patrol craft perhaps.
Iran retaliates - by firing at US ships, though not with missiles.
US/Israel responds by going after Iran with bunker busting/tactical nuclear weapons, to take out strategic targets.
Iran looses off a number of anti ship missiles, sinking a carrier or two.
US/Israel respond by throwing nukes at Iran’s major cities.
You see, the US doesn’t really expect anyone to retaliate any more, they want people to give up without a fight.
You Yanks really have to get control of your politicians quickly, or we are all going to face an early meeting with our creator.
On 1 May 2003, President George Bush strode onto the deck of the aircraft carrier, USS Abraham Lincoln. Overhead was a banner saying “Mission Accomplished.”
Was that an Omission, a Comission or just a Bad Penny (Lincoln) that keeps returning.
True story ANDY UK. They have re-called guys and gals who are over 54 years old, 55 is the limit for re-call.
His wife is ready for a heart attack and or a nervous breakdown. He has gotten free dental care which he sorely needed but couldn’t afford and some brand new bi-focals. Those are often outsourced to civilian medical outfits now. His glasses frames like mine, are made in China. This is America? Not the one I grew up in, but we were well on or way to fascism then.
Yep, no draft anymore, “Call out the g-damn reserves”. __That was a Korean War song. ___ One rather famous example was, ~Ted Williams~ the very famous Boston Red Sox slugger, was re-called to fly Navy jets during the Korean “Police Action”. That wasn’t a “war” either, but a lot of people were killed anyway.
“Hi ~Kendpotter~. Are those Chinese Silkworm anti-ship missiles even more effective, faster and more deadly than the French Exocet jobs?”
Hi Kem,
They are large missles with a pretty big warhead (over 1000 lbs.) They cruise at Mach 0.8 which is about the same as an Exocet but considerably slower than the Russian Sunburn. They are a very old design and susceptible to electronic countermeasures and chaff. That is not to say that proper employment/surprise won’t put one into the side of a carrier. The Egyptians sank two Israeli destroyers with them during the 1968 war.
“Our Conress and some military leaders are crazy. I do honestly wonder if the majority are using mind altering drugs.”
I agree with you about the Congress. I think that the military didn’t use to be this way, but the current senior leadership has sold their souls to be where they are. All the good ones who spoke the truth to power have been fired. The only ones left are the toadies. It sucks.
If Obama is goin to up the war as so many here predict, how come Hamas wants Obama to win now that they want to live in Peace with Israel?
Somebody says if you want something different vote for Nader…. a vote to help McSame is not really something different is it?
Since you know Nader won’t even be on the ballot, how is that gonna help you?
You are gonna teach yourselves a Lesson your family and friends will never forget or forgive you for if McSame wins…..
Nader folks are funny.
Its a reminder that the US is free to do what it likes and not be held accountable.
Who is the greatest threat to world peace, but the only nation that feels free to anchor its warships off somebody elses shore!
Andy UK,
Don’t you remember. We have already been through this scenario with Iran. It was during the Iran/Iraq war. Both sides started attacking the others oil facilities, ports, and tankers. We put US flags on Kuwaiti and Saudi tankers and started escorting them to keep the Iranian speed boats and aircraft from shooting them up. Since Saddaam was our best friend at the time we found a “causus belli” in an Iranian vessel, Iran Ajr, caught laying mines in the Straits of Hormuz. We promptly sank what little they had for a Navy, blew up all their oil rigs in the northern part of the Gulf, and shot down a civilian airliner. Gosh, I wonder why they don’t like us?
Right Kem, my brother-in-law knows a guy in his office who was recalled at the age of 54.
elmysterio and Samson, international law was violated the moment Cheney/Bush began to threaten Iraq, and continues to be violated with impunity in this and many other ways. Article VI of the US Constitution states that all treaties which the US Govt has signed onto become the law of the land, and thus, if broken, constitute violation of US law. This fact comprises a basis, among many others, for impeachment.
It should be recalled that the hireling to replace Rumsfeld, Robert Gates, yrs ago, urged bombing of that great threat to the US, Nicaragua.
Kendpotter - too true, just remind me, what happened to our old friend Sadaam?.
There is nothing to be heard of pre revolution involvement in Iran in our media. As far as our guardians of the airwaves are concerned, Iran is evil, and they are yet another country who hate us for what we are.
Mossadeq, the Savaak, the airbus over the straits of Hormuz, why do they hate us so much?
To anyone planning to join the armed forces for the war with Iran:
Please refuse to participate in your government’s murderous deeds. Ignorance is not an excuse for murder. And that’s what you have become in Afghanistan and Iraq and now you are going to be in Iran: murderers.
Care about the people in other countries - they are humans too, though to most Americans that might seem like a preposterous idea. Don’t join up to go fight people who have never harmed you. Remember, once you are there in their country, they will see you as what you are - part of a brutal occupying force - and they will try every way they can to get rid of you. Before you rush to enlist, PLEASE consider what your action will mean to the innocent lives halfway across the world.
litt_wmn@yahoo.com
AndyUK. They called a friends father to Iraq a couple of years ago that is 60 years old and flew helicopters in Vietnam. Now the poor guy is back and very sick. What a travesty!
A reminder of what happens to countries who do this, perhaps?
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/30/content_8083804.htm
Perhaps it is the USA that needs some “reminding.” The USA tends to underestimate Iran in several ways. What does the USA Government really know about Iran? It is the USA that is acting all arrogant and brash. Iran can always turn off its spigot - then what would happen? Iran could technically say that nations that are supportive of any USA endeavors to the detriment of Iran interests (remember USA the world does not revolve around you and there are other nations who need to protect their interests as well - regardless of what the USA believes. Sleep on that thought neo-con fundamentalist Christian) would be denied oil and natural gas sales from them. Evidently, some Americans seem to forget the power that Iran has when it comes to fossil fuels.
Of course, Gates and American society in general, needs to be “reminded” that Iran is a nation of roughly 70 million people. How can the USA do anything to Iran other than drop nuclear weapons there which will turn off the spigot anyway. Indeed, a significant portion of the world will not receive oil for an indefinite period if the USA raises Hell in Iran. So USA I just wanted to “remind” you.
Do they really need a reminder? This threat from the U.S. has been going on in the news for most of the Bush II years.
One of the biggest problems with the U.S., as we are seeing in Iraq, is that they (mis)underestimate everyone. Idiots!
Hi ~Paul Revere~ he was over 55? ___ Wow!!
I don’t doubt at all that he’s sick now, probably very sick. Once contaminated there is no cure. The older they are the worse it is, over 400,000 are permanently disabled now. This link was published several years ago and the numbers have risen accordingly. Just imagine what’s it’s doing to the Iraqis also.
http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_blowinginthewind.htm
Saddam? Heard he’s hanging around someplace.
.
.
.
.
I’m sick too.
As Secretary Gates leads the war-mongering with cries of “Iran is hell-bent on acquiring nuclear weapons,” this American would “remind” the good Secretary of the inconvenient fact that our Government’s latest NIE on Iran concluded “with a high degree of certainty” that IRAN HALTED ITS NUCLEAR WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES FIVE YEARS AGO! Secretary Gates is just the latest evidence that in US political circles, the scum rises to the top.
Are we sure the Iranians don’t have “sunburn” aka “sizzler” missiles? The probability has been discussed for years. Iran has the money and the Russians and Chinese would be willing to sell “poor man’s” answers to superpower hardware.
The ominous sign might be when the carrier groups quietly move OUT of the gulf. The Air Force can handle the “surgical strike” without billions of dollars of hardware and thousands of lives in harm’s way. Finally, the Navy doesn’t want the world to find out these new cruise missiles have obsoleted carrier battle groups.
So the US military is going to soon trot out some weapons they’ll claim has been supplied to insurgents by Iran with the express intent of killing US soldiers. How many countries in the world could trot out a bunch of US manufactured weapons and claim that the US is supplying those weapons to the rebels in their countries? Weapons and explosives are being manufactured and sold all over the world by all kinds of folks to all kinds of folks; and of these suppliers, the US is the greatest and most prolific.
There are billions in US cash missing in Iraq. Do you think some of that cash might have been used by Iraqis to purchase weapons?
One of the reasons that Admiral Fallon was forced out of his leadership role in the mideast is because he testified before Congress last year that we could not prove that any significant amount of weapons were actually being supplied to the Iraqis by Iran.
they don’t want the truth it gets in the way of the mission they are on. Control as much oil as they can and the cost isn’t a problem
Yes, Litt_Wmn1st, there ARE actually human beings living in Iran. If our corporate mass media had a shred of credibility/consciousness, in this state of “crisis” they would be flooding their channels with accurate info re Iranians (but, this would humanize them when the object is to dehumanize) & Iran, so that us citizens would know how to advise our representatives.
Of course an impartially objective media, to best inform its citizens would inform re the British colonialization (like the 13 colonies), the 1953 overthrow of the democratically government by the CIA to rescind the nationalization of British Petroleum (soaring in profits today, by the way), and, oh yeah, Don Rumsfeld (remember him?) shaking hands w/Saddam on an arms deal that would enable him to invade Iran, thus rendering an attack on Iran as insane as it actually would be.
Jim Glover sez: “You are gonna teach yourselves a Lesson your family and friends will never forget or forgive you for if McSame wins…..”
Seems harsh to preemptively blame CDers and Nader for the regime. I suspect the “American voter” will have little say in McKeating’s November “victory” and January installation.
And also providing Saddam with poison nerve Gas, ~Rumiluv~ which he used on Iranian troops and the Kurds.
Personally, I thought ~Jim Glover~ was correct.
If in fact the Iranian Army has the straits of Hormuz lined with bombs at the bottoms, they will blow our two carrier strike groups to kingdom come.
It would play out like a Pearl Harbor redux, but without warning or fanface. It would be one immediate blow. Our ships would not be able to launch any nuclear missiles / aircraft on the ships.
God help us if this administration sacrificies more soldiers to continue their holy grail for their black texas tea.
Kem Patrick, it is not bs as I have known his son for many years and I could not believe it myself until his Dad left for Iraq. His son told me that the Army told his Dad that they were short of helicopter pilots. Here is an American that is a real patriot, although mislead, that the chickenhawks Bush and Cheney would not be worthy of tieing his shoes, being screwed like so many of our brave and patriotic soldiers and now in horrible health.
It’s late in the thread, but Military or Market-Driven Empire Building: 1950-2008 must be read.
I didn’t think it was BS Paul. I was was as surprised as you were though. Evidently they can take us at any age, depending upon need. When a person signs up for miitary service, the contract is full of little words.
In the next few days US officers in Baghdad are expected to mount a display of recently-made Iranian arms alleged to have been seized from insurgents.
Why don’t they show the Chinese mortars and rockets, and the Russian Dragunov sniper’s rifle that the ‘insurgents’ use. Then Bobby Gates can send some aircraft carriers over there too, you know, as a ‘reminder’ not to mess with us.
( Chinese and Russian weapons in Iraq
Chinese armor piercing bullets in Iraq, Afghanistan
Russian sniper rifles killing hundreds of American occupiers )
Oh right.
Americans can barely handle 22 million starving Iraqi’s. And their Navy and Air Force might barely handle a two week attack on Iran, before getting their asses handed to them in the long run.
I guess Russia and China are not too worried about the American ’superpower’ anymore. What do they call the 21st Century in the rest of the world ?
Oh right. The Chinese Century.
Hey Gates, can you afford to send any more fleets over to China ? Or are you already borrowing lots of money from China to pay for the new fleet to threaten Chavez in South America…
Jeez, things are getting embarassing for the ’superpower’. Good thing the Americans have their smartest politicians in control, the Bush Administration. I’m sure they will come up with a brilliant plan.
Maybe a tax cut for the rich…
Naw, another buck a gallon on gas.
I remember reading somewhere about Iranians holding demonstrations against our good friend the Shah. The Shah’s usual response to these protests was to mow down the demonstrators with helicopter gunships. The Iranians, knowing that they would be killed, showed up for the demonstrations already dressed in their burial shrouds to save their relatives the trouble.
I don’t think the Iranians need any “reminding” that we United Statesians are ignorant, cowardly murderers.
Just finished all the Comments. Interesting, and thank you
bbr-001 May 1st, 2008 8:40 pm
Are we sure the Iranians don’t have “sunburn” aka “sizzler” missiles?
Besides anti-ship missiles, the Iranians have put a lot of work into their super-cavitation torpedoes.
Hoot (Persian: حوت - “Whale”) is an Iranian supercavitation torpedo that travels at approximately 360 km/h, several times faster than a conventional torpedo. It was test-fired successfully from a surface ship against a dummy submarine during the Iranian military exercise “Great Prophet” (Persian:(پيامبر اعظم(ص) on April 2, 2006 and April 3, 2006.
According to the official Iranian news agency IRNA, the torpedo was produced and developed by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (Persian: سپاهسداران انقلاب اسلامی). Some sources have speculated that it may be based on the Russian VA-111 Shkval Supercavitation torpedo, which travels at the same speed. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov denied supplying Iran with the technology.
Senior Iranian officials say they have minitiarized these, and have produced 100’s of thousands. While they are still basically ‘point and shoot’ (not steerable like the much slower conventional torpedos) they are now able to be fired from small two person speedboats. They could swarm the Persian Gulf with thousands of ‘patrol boats’, taking out any oil tankers for the next 5 years. And warships, too. U.S. ships are designed to engage a small number of huge Russian warships. Whoops, wrong Century.
Goodbye, Global Economy.
Just a ‘Reminder’ to Gates that in a Conventional battle, he gets his ass kicked. And if he goes Nuclear, say goodbye to the global economic system that favors the U.S.; Europe and China and Russia and Brazil and India will shun the U.S. for a century. Can you say ’six decade Depression’ ?
Maybe ’surprise-party-away-from-death’ Cheney hasn’t gotten the memo.
A bit late to the discussion, but what the heck. I wanted to make the point that even the older missiles can hit their targets. The anti-missile defences of the us navy are good, but can be overwhelmed if enough ammo is launched against them. The CIWS chews thru ammo fast and a good deal of time is needed to reload them…
Ships that get too close to land can be easily sunk, it’s not something the admirals want to see happen. Damn shame there’s not many of them hanging around bush any longer, not that they, or anyone else could inject some common dog into that fool.
I live within a few miles of “Indian Point, MD.” Indian Point is a training area for U.S. Navy SEALS (Sea Air Land Forces). These are special operation forces of the US Navy. They are the creme de la creme of the military combat arms. They have specialized training in “behind the lines” warfare and aviator recovery.
They have been training hard the last few weeks. With demolition exercises and low level air assault training. I am not a “spy.” But one cannot avoid the racket, noise and activity.
The US Marines in Quantico, just South of here, have been training at a higher rate of late, too.
What does this mean?
At a former combat soldier in Vietnam, I suspect that the US Military is preparing to attack someone. Who? The US Navy has just moved another Carrier task force into the Persian Gulf. The rhetoric against Iran has increased. I suspect Iran is going to be attacked, soon.
Wow, War Is On The Horizon…….
Let´s see if the National Media will inform the American People that we allowed the Iranians to supply the Kosavars their weapons in Serbia and we probably confiscated most of them and those are probably the weapons to be shown.
Let´s see if the National Media will inform the American People that Israel produced enough Iranian weapons for the U.S. Government because Israel was asked to supply Iran with weapons dutring the Iraq/Iran War. I know, it gets confusing
How many “Black Ops” and “False Flag Events” can be used to justify taking over Iran…..Maliki´s delegation is probably warning Iran,today, that they will be attacked.
Can the National Media inform the American People with the Truth? I doubt it…..Let´s see, Bush is bribing Sunni Tribal Leaders to hold back on “Their Insurgency”…..You see, the Sunnis were the original “Insurgents”. Then, the Sunnis were linked to Al Qaeda. And, lost in all that information, the Sunnis are Financed, Armed, and Supplied by Saudi Arabia and the Sunnis have killed more Americans than any group.
“My enemy is my friend, my friend is my enemy!”
We’ll have to learn the hard way. We haven’t seen anything yet. Germany lost between 5-6 million people of “the master race” for a demented, delusional, psychopath, who hated everybody, in the final analysis, beginning with his own inner self.
If Americans are willing to kill and be killed for a wicked, crooked band of thieving liars and cowards, then there is no hope and the evil empire that the United States has become, needs to be dismantled by whatever means necessary so the rest of the planet can breath easier and work towards creating a better world.
I only hope those soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen didn’t die for nothing fighting nazism, fascism and imperialism in WW2.
bbr-001
“Are we sure the Iranians don’t have “sunburn” aka “sizzler” missiles?”
Rumor had it (at least Jane’s reported it as rumor) that the Ukraine sold Iraq 15 Sunburns back in 2001. If that did happen, those missles may or may not be useful. They are fairly sophisticated, unlike the Styx, and difficult to maintain. The Ukraine is unlikely to have provided much in the way of training, support, spare parts, etc. That being said, they have shown a surprising ability to keep their old F-14’s aloft. They don’t have the use of the AWG-9 radar or Phoenix missles, but a limited number of those planes are still flying.
I guess the whole point boils down like this - If you are the Naval Intelligence Officer briefing the CAG, you can’t discount the possibility that the Iranians have a limited number of these missles, some of which are potentially operational to one degree or another.
middlec
“If in fact the Iranian Army has the straits of Hormuz lined with bombs at the bottoms, they will blow our two carrier strike groups to kingdom come.”
I believe middlec is correct. You don’t need to fear some potential threats like Ukrainian Sunburns or mythical threats like some supertorpedo, anywhere near as much as you have to worry about mines. They are an old technology that virtually any military can acquire and maintain and they are still just as effective. The Iranians have 1000 to 1500 of them and would likely try to close the Straits of Hormuz using them.
Everything the Bush Adminitration does is political. This is probably setting up Mccain to highlight his “strong stance on security.”
Might that include, “Who do you want to continue the military action against Iran?
Be ready for a “Gulf of Tonkin” October surprise.
Timing is everything.
Who are these frigging NAZIs !!! In a World based on National Sovereignty, Iran has every Right to do as it wishes.
Considering how we Assasinated the democratically elected Leader of that Country in a 1954 CIA sponsered Coup, the US has nothing to say.
Considering as how we Invaded Iraq to steal the oil, we have even less to say.
Who are these neo-con NAZI bastards !!!!
normvincent: Amen! Correctly stated!
Who are they? Greedy capitalists who went everything for themselves and nothing for the workers who produce the wealth, and by the way, HAVE NO ALLEGIANCE to this country. It’s the grown men and women in the Pentagon with a macho mentality for violent behavior. It’s the international “financiers” who fund both sides in wars for usury. It’s the religious funDUMBentalists who believe nothing the Master Teacher said, but everything the charlatan, sooth-saying preachers of hate, intolerance, and impending doom preach. It is the Aipac Lobby who secretly admired the nazis for getting rid of progressive Jews in Europe and making deals with the Zionist right-wingers over there.
Ignorance is not bliss, it is unforgivable. Just take a long slow look at our country since 2000.
Maybe Gates could go there and offer a peace pipe?
.
.
.
.
Maybe not.
kendpotter: A tremendous amount has been written about the training and motivation of US military personnel, by those who have done the training and by outsiders. There is a lot of consistency in these accounts. Generally, these people consider themselves to be human beings superior to the rest of us as an axiom, supported by their great sacrifice. The fact that the great sacrifice is primarily of the lives of other human beings, many of them women and young children and babies and elderly, is conveniently ignored. It is also ignored that historically, no nation’s military has killed more US citizens than the US military itself, or that US military action usually leads to a loss of freedom elsewhere in the world, and sometimes in the US as well.
The revenge motive is very strong. In fact, it is used as a major recruitment incentive.
Normvincent - I think we share the same views on how the US is behaving towards other countries, but we have to get our facts right. Mohammed Mossadeq was indeed overthrown by a military coup, largely organised with the help of the CIA and MI5. The event happened in 1953, and he was not assassinated, but died in 1967.
This was, I feel the most important event in Iran’s history in centuries, but it has been ignored, glossed over, swept under the carpet by our media. His crime, in our “civilised” Western government’s eyes, was to nationalise his own country’s natural resource - oil.
I wish that some film maker, would have the guts to make a film about these events, there would be no shortage of action and intrigue, particularly when we move on to the Shah’s treatment of his own people.
The resulting film, would certainly be of more worth than “300″, a comic book filled with rubbish, which merely intended to show the Persians as a barbaric cowardly people. Unfortunately, I heard many people praising “300″, which shows how propaganda and the dumbing down of society, can have such a negative affect on the people.