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A Military Trial for Alleged 9/11 Terrorists is Unlikely to Lead to Justice
Bureaucratic and legal bungles – and torture – have undermined any prospect of a fair trial for the five key Guantánamo detainees
After almost 10 years of incarceration, US officials have announced that five of the most important prisoners left in Guantánamo Bay are finally to go on trial in a capital military tribunal where, if found guilty, they are likely to be executed.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a recent picture released by the International Red Cross. Photograph: International Red Cross
By far the most important prisoner is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed – known as KSM – who together with his co-accused Ramzi bin al-Shibh, is widely recognised as the mastermind behind the planning of the 9/11 attacks on America. The others are KSM's nephew Ali Abdul Aziz Ali, Walid bin Attash and Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi. All five men were arrested in Pakistan in 2002 and 2003.
The military tribunal is the latest development in an extraordinarily convoluted and distorted legal saga that has already damaged the prospects of a fair trial for any of the accused. All of these men have been held in secret CIA "black sites" around the world, for months or years on end. KSM, who was captured in March 2003 at the home of a Pakistani military officer in the heart of a military camp in Rawalpindi, was waterboarded 183 times during the almost three-and-a-half years he spent in this maze of secret prisons. Waterboarding is an extreme form of torture which, although it leaves no physical marks, makes the victim believe he is about to drown. Only in September 2006 did KSM arrive at Guantánamo Bay.
Not surprisingly, he revealed a wealth of information about the way in which the 9/11 attacks were organized, as well as his role in numerous other attacks and plots. In fact, as he first told the Red Cross in October 2006, he provided the information that his interrogators wanted to hear in order to stop the torture.
At his first combatant status review tribunal in 2007 he admitted to an extraordinary catalog of terrorist attacks, many of which he was responsible for, others merely vague ideas. Those admissions included responsibility for the 9/11 operation "from A to Z", the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the decapitation of journalist Daniel Pearl, recruiting shoe bomber Richard Reid, the Bali nightclub bombing, a plot to bomb and destroy the Panama Canal, plans to assassinate former US president Jimmy Carter, Pope John Paul II, Bill Clinton and Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, plots to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, the Sears Tower in Chicago, Heathrow airport, Big Ben, the New York Stock Exchange, various nuclear power plants, Nato headquarters in Brussels and numerous other targets, both real and imagined. It was one of the most comprehensive confessions of all time.
In February 2008 the US Department of Defense announced that charges had been sworn against six detainees at Guantánamo – the same group who were charged a few days ago, plus an Arab who had been sent to join the 9/11 hijackers, but who had been refused entry to the US. The military trial actually began in June 2008, witnessed by 35 journalists in an adjoining room who heard KSM decline legal representation for what was looking increasingly like a show trial.
The proceedings dragged on until December 2008 when, in an unexpected move, all the accused told the military judge they wished to plead guilty. Three months later they issued a response to the nine-main charges against them, dismissing most of the allegations and attempting to justify their actions. They all signed the document as the "9/11 Shura Council". Soon after, the military trial was abandoned.
As these chaotic bureaucratic and legal bungles further undermined any prospect of a fair trial, KSM took the opportunity to refresh his image. He now sought to portray himself as a martyr to justice. Despite his incarceration in Guantánamo, two new photos of him have appeared, released to his family by the Red Cross. Instead of the image of the scruffy-looking man in white pajamas taken when he was being arrested, the new images show a smiling man with a great bushy beard, looking more like a guru than a mass murderer. KSM, it seemed, was flourishing.
The next event was yet another disaster for American justice. In November 2009, following pressure from the new Obama administration, it was announced that all five men would be transferred to a prison in New York to be tried in a civilian court. At last it looked as if justice would prevail. But it was not to be. Despite the efforts of the new president, a majority of members of the US Congress were determined that none of the Guantánamo prisoners should have a civil trial on American soil. In January 2011, in a humiliating act, President Obama was forced to sign the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), prohibiting the use of government funds to transfer detainees from Guantánamo to the US mainland.
In April last year, a clearly angry US attorney general, Eric Holder , finally announced that once again, the men were to be tried by a military commission at Guantánamo. Now that trial is about to start. After claims of torture, rendition, confession, aborted military commission and civilian trial, can anyone expect that justice will be served?
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124 Comments so far
Show AllThank you, Rvrwalker. It's important that others catch on. I mean what is the probability that a "retired TSA" employee JUST shows up on C.D. one day and begins to dominate significant threads thereafter? And then consider the timing, just when it becomes public knowledge that spying has become a burgeoning business with an entire data center being built in Utah? "How convenient!" As Dana Carvey, disguised as SNL's "Church Lady" would say.
Also, I've had other attackers refer to me as Rosie. One, in particular, was Shawn Berry. IF these creeps receive the kind of psy-ops training we read about, they would have NO trouble taking on a prescribed persona, like say, that of a TSA guy; and then, using that personality designation, engaging the forum for their own authoritarian purposes.
Part of their reason for being here is to control the limits of debate by seeking to shame any who step outside of the "allowable" parameters. When I recently watched Oliver Stone's fine film (JFK) again, it was noteworthy that some of Garrison's legal team quit on him because they could not accept the obvious direction the evidence (of JFK's murder) was pointing in. And one of the legal dissidents said the same thing that "TSA guy" says, and it's been used in this forum by PDJ, too. (That is when they don't offer the reverse racism meme meant to make those of us who doubt the Official Narrative into closet racists whose alleged skepticism is based on this idea that we don't think Arabs/Muslims were smart enough to pull it off.) The other reflex deployed to shut-off the discussion is this idea that info would have leaked out by now. As if the ones behind the hit on JFK, his brother, possibly JFK, Jr. and others are ready to "give it up," as Arsenio used to say when given the chance to host the former Johnny Carson show.
Thank you for recognizing my efforts as there's been some risk to my professional reputation for posting the truth--as I understand it, in this forum. Faced with raking oceans of Oak tree leaves from my property I can see that the soil underneath seems as baked as ancient sand. The entire state of Florida is experiencing a drought... and the rain is so necessary for our wildlife. I can't help but feel GRIEF that the Natural World I love so much is in early stages of collapse, dying. And the leaders go on as if nothing is different, nothing is wrong. So when I see the climate change deniers pass over this serious subject as if it, too, were meaningless, my Truth Meter rings its internal alarm bell. I cannot let the lies sit. There are a number of persons, I believe on salary, planted in this forum to endlessly spew lies. When someone calls them on their distorted views they retaliate by calling the Truth Tellers "alarmist" or "hysterical" or "paranoid." TRUTH is either not understood to authoritarians, or rendered subservient to their pay checks.
I appreciate that YOU get it. And I know others do, too. In times less insidious than the current era, given its dense clouds of engineered deception, I'd be happy to honor the creed of treating all opinions with respect. However, when there are paid agents in our midst who waste our time by reinforcing lies and the illusions preferred by the elites (and/or the Status quo), the enterprise of countering their disinformation campaigns proves exhausting. Thus I've opted for the stance of "permission to treat the witness as hostile."
Earlier I logged onto RSN (Reader Supported News) as they had a compelling article about the ways the right wing churches are seeking to take over America. The comment thread was quite good. The Site Moderators also noted that there were too many character attacks taking place. HOMEOSTASIS has previously posted links that prove that threads like this one are embedded with those seeking to obscure the truth and direct the discussion onto neutral tangential planes, and the like. Luckily, every time one of us speaks Truth, it lights a lamp that exposes the pervasive darkness.
Your pat on the back was what I needed tonight. Many thanks to you. Light On!
Siouxrose, I am going to give you a gauge that can determine just how incredibly bat crap crazy you are.
You won't use it ... you won't believe it, so I'll put it here for others:
I am EXACTLY who, and what, I have said I am.
Are you with me so far?
I am EXACTLY who AND what I have said I am: I am a retired TSA officer who came into a forum that used screening as an example of sexual humiliation, or whatever Naomi's schtick was, and I offered a post, and then I replied to other posts and I gave back whatever hostility and sarcasm was directed my way.
and ... I am exACTly who and what I said I am, no more, no less.
EVERYTHING ELSE, Rosie ... all that crap about "domination" and "psy-ops" and "prescribed personas" and"mercurial screen names," and "Koch brothers insiders" and your attempt to inject "racism" where there is NONE and all that crap about "agents"... alllll that stuff ...
THAT, Rosie ... is YOURS, that is what YOU added.
Not one BIT of it is true of me.
... and THAT, Rosie, is just how NUTS you are.
Strange your use of the familiar term "Rosie," as it's also been a favorite of OTHER attackers. Also, I counted 17 posts of 86 in this thread from YOU. What kind of freelancer has such an overt need to dominate the message boards? On the Naomi Wolf thread, you logged in at close to 60 of 300 comments. What would motivate someone to type that many messages, most of them repeating the initial memes? Why would so much time be devoted to this site, especially by a "just happened by" retired agent? It's so easy to call someone nuts who exposes you for the creep you are, or reveals an understanding MILES over your head. So EVEN if you were a TSA agent, that hardly excuses your overt need to "suddenly" show up in these threads and "mark" every hydrant like some big dog who thinks he's in a pissing contest. As if anyone here respects you... you're too transparent. And if you're getting paid by the number of posts, maybe it's that your wife needs a Kideny Transplant and this is the only way you can manage the medical deductible. Otherwise, you stand out like a sore thumb and might want to alter your M.O.
Or... Why not go to a right wing site and discuss NRA talking points with others who share your sensibilities. There you can wax on about your love of loaded weapons, substitute for what, genuine male impotence?
Good night and good luck!
I am who I said I am, no more, no less.
Everything else is YOUR bat crap craziness.
I just can't help but say that your "gauge" of proving who you are is laughably pathetic.
The "gauge" that I am using to observe your comments is your usage of language. Red flags are abound, for many different reasons. But for the sake of brevity (mainly because I don't really care to waste my time on you.)
For an innocent "retired TSA agent" to have just wandered into the CD forum only 5 days ago... it is pretty interesting to note how you have so quickly adapted to using the exact same usage of language that previous posters have used to undermine and denigrate Siouxrose; like, calling Siouxrose, Rosie; denigrating her astrology beliefs (when she hasn't even written about them in this particular comment section); and resorting to the use of logical fallacies.
While I have not always agreed with Siouxrose in the past I have observed a few years of her being attacked by the same type of people who happen to use the exact same usage of language that you are using (Denruter, Shawn Berry, 2 Be Smarter... just a few past screen names). And, no, it's most likely not a coincidence... and that this type of usage of language is just what "sane" people who merely report "facts clearly" and "state opinions in an orderly fashion" looks like. The study of linguistics is what allows me to make these observations.
Could my observations be wrong? Sure. But carry on... Mr. retired TSA agent. I will simply be reading your messages with a healthy dose of skepticism.
I am who I have said I am, no more, no less.
Everything else is Rosie's insanity, or yours, if you sign on to hers.
If you don't think Rosie has written about her astrology beliefs, you haven't read the whole thread, specifically "Posted by Siouxrose
Apr 15 2012 - 12:29pm
Hope that clears that up for you.
I doubt that. And it has nothing to do with insanity, or "signing on to her beliefs". It's simply of matter of understanding sociolinguistics and sociolects.
Hope that clears that up for you.
Your doubts are incorrect.
Deal with that.
Do you even know what the study of sociolinguistics is? Do you know what sociolects are? I noticed you would rather avoid discussing the point I made about your usage of language. You PR hacks, or whatever the fuck you are, are definitely clever with your usage of logical fallacies, and what not, but you are pathetic dipshits in so many other regards. Why? Because you were never taught to critically think beyond what your higher-ups tell you to think. But your cleverness and your anonymity can't hide the obvious sociolect you are using when you write here. It's a dead giveaway, and your little obfuscations and childish "deal with that" antics won't change that fact.
Now, quick... throw out a straw man, or an ad hominem to distract away from the point I have made about sociolinguistics and the sociolect that gives you away.
I don't have to know what ANY of that is Eric, to know that I am who and what I have said I am and that anything that has been added to that is bullshit..
That's kinda like telling the jury..."I don't need to know anything about DNA or science because that blood on the victims body with my DNA in it is not my blood, and everything I am saying to you is what it is." Okay, sir. I believe you. [sarcasm]
You usage of language and the exact same patterns (name calling, denigration of character, and logical fallacies) that past screen names have used here gives you away.
No, it's not like that. It's like telling the jury I know who I am and you don't.
... and that's what I'm saying, and that's the truth, and that's all there is to it.
Haha... don't look at the evidence people, don't look at evidence people. I am who I say I am. Hahaha.. you are hoot... and a fraud.
Your brilliant mind and your science has led you away from the simple truth.
I am what I said I am and if your "evidence" says otherwise, it is incorrect.
That's all.
Thank you for the support, Eric. The number of attackers is quite a bit longer than the sum of names you related. I'd need a full time staff to keep track of it all, in addition to an expert in patterns of speech (added to their cognitive equivalent) to identify which screen names are regularly used by each member of the group apparently tasked with gutting my reputation... and good name. I've joked with them that were it not for posters like myself, they'd be out of a job... or certainly see their hours (and pay) cut back.
When I read "Dangerous Dossiers" and it became clear that The State Department invested LOTS of manpower in following the lives, correspondences, and activities of writers and artists with Left-leaning sensibilities in an earlier era, I could understand why some seek to silence my voice today. Plus these types of operations are a growing business, and spying is now Kosher. It's probably one of the few venues where anyone willing to obey authority has a guaranteed job waiting for them. And the best thing about it? They don't have to have any college, or possibly high school diplomas given the spelling errors and impossible sentence structure seen in the typical postings of likely members of this ilk.
P.S. He wanted me to recognize him... or he would not have used "Rosie."
I am who I said I am, Rosie ... not who YOU think I am.
The difference between who I REALLY am and who you THINK I am is your insanity. It's what YOU add to plain, simple reality.
It's no more complicated than that.
Do you know what projection is? You've called me mad, crazy or insane in post after post. Interesting, in that people pay me for my advice. Does anyone pay you for anything but groping captive persons on airport security lines?
AND you're now sounding so redundant that your posts lend credence to my speculation that "you" are a program, a persona computer-generated to regurgitate authoritarian pabulum ad nauseum. You must have posted 25 of the 101 comments in this thread. That means no other life exists around you... so do you pee in a cup while you type at the computer? Or are you, as I called it... just a program. Plausible deniability means never having to tell... at least until this epoch of near-fascist controls over citizens reverses and the pendulum swings back into normalcy... in the form of law and order of the humane and just kind.
Yes, Rosie, I DO know what projection is: You have projected your paranoia onto me. I am who I've said I am and everything else is what YOU have projected.
Redundance is only required in individual response to your continuing repetition of the same paranoid ideation because the facts don't change: I am who I've said I am, no more no less, and everything that YOU've ADDED to that is your paranoia.
Your heightened agitation is becoming more evident. That's the defense mechanism that kicks in when something approaches the center of the pathology.
Read it again, Rosie: I am who I've said I am and EVERYTHING else, all that you've added to that, is YOUR paranoia, YOUR projection.
No matter how many times you try and insist otherwise, that is the singular and unalterable truth.
If, as your agitation escalates, you try to add MORE to what you've already projected, or if you repeat what you've alREADy added, that fact will not change.
Your welcome, Siouxrose. I think you are doing a great job of defending yourself here... but after years of watching this same pattern (and not just attacks directed towards you) I sometimes just can't sit by without saying anything. I used the word sociolect, instead of idiolect, to describe the writer because I do think it is a group. And the sociolect and the patterns that these people use are basically the same. So take when a GMO article comes out there will always be two people working together to undermine the article, and they use the exact same sociolects and patterns (logical fallacies, denigration of character, and avoidance of addressing the evidence that goes against their companies interests).
There has been investigative journalists who have uncovered the fact that paid PR hacks do come to these forums to disrupt the discussion by spreading misinformation, disinformation and information. The fact that Jack calls you "bat crap crazy" for suggesting that this does indeed happen only shows his own complicity, or idiocy. Their "sway" only works effectively through people simply not knowing that this exists. So exposure and raising awareness of them is why they work so hard to undermine you and others who point this out.
I'm sure you have already read this, but for others who haven't, this is a wonderful piece of investigative journalism that exposes that this "fake persuasion" does indeed exist.
http://www.monbiot.com/2002/05/14/the-fake-persuaders/
The "subtext" is ALWAYS "evident" to the paranoid.
I learned long ago not to argue symptoms, Rosie, and anyone who believes that the orbital route of Pluto passing through imaginary pictures in the sky comprised wholly of stars unrelated and flung at galactic distances across the Universe has a potent influence on the matters of men on this minuscule spinning basalt crag orbiting a minor star in a spiral arm of a generic spiral galaxy evidences more of those symptoms than I care to even LIST here.
Please stop this kind of "witch-hunting", Siouxrose.
It is NOT helpful.
so saith the …
so, if one protests a witch hunt, that's evidence that person is ...
You have family in Salem, pilgrim?
Or in Spain?
It was said in humor, to brunt the devious afflictions, associations, and more scurrilous baiting.
Who INITIALLY brought up that word "witch" ?
No. Certainly no one is known to be anything, one way or another -- even if they use their actual names, and swear on a stack of bibles.
And no, disagreement is not a criteria for wondering if someone has a hidden agenda -- but being caught repeatedly using deceptive and scurrilous logical fallacies and viciously making repetitive personal attacks, sure does paint a very nasty bullying < uncivil > deceptive (perhaps deceitful) picture.
Particularly, when there < likely > never is any explanation, nor apology offered
Are you accusing ME of making "repetitive personal attacks"?!?!?
I have never done any such thing, so you must not be.
What Siouxrose and too many others here too often do is akin to "witch-hunting", both in their manner and in the results for the forum. That is why I used that word.
As for "logical fallacies", I assure you and everyone that when and if I use them it is entirely mistaken, and certainly not "deceptive" or "scurrilous" in intention.
MATTI: You lost my respect 100% when you started planting STUPID posts in threads revealing DIRECT evidence of massive climate change. You NEVER talk about those who attack me, and therefore siding with the EVIDENT jack-booted officer in the forum to make it seem that I am the one executing "the witch hunt" is rich... in irony, inanity, and dishonesty.
By choosing to honor my craft and sharing The Higher Understanding with this forum it makes me an easy target to those whose worldview is earthbound and linear, limited by old patriarchal fundamentalist creeds. The Initiate does not need validation from the neophyte. I have studied the wisdom and teachings of many erudite masters and speak on THEIR authority. So to have some untutored punk who probably works for a branch of Homeland Security seek to sully my reputation... is almost not worth responding to.
BTW: This is precisely the tactic being used by the right wing and its churches. Although THEY are ON the aggressive end in seeking to seize more and more liberties from those outside of their congregations, they frame the issue as the public's hostility to THEM and their rights!
With the influence of right wing Think Tanks, the Corporate control of media, growing fundamentalist sects, added to a purposeful escalation of fear-based creeds... an insidious inversion of Truth is now grotesquely common place.
Lastly, Matti: You have never shown me any reason to respect you. Why would I start now?
You apparently have no respect for anyone with whom you disagree, even if they agree with you on almost all other points. The first thing you do is villify them, then accuse them of being paid stooges. Then you whisper the word "nazi" in some oblique connotation, ignoring the similarity of methodology between yourself and the nazis themselves, if I may point out. That seems to be your S.O.P.
Oh, so you accuse her of DOING -- what you demonstrably are doing right here and now ?
Where's you supposed proof ?
Proof's in the pudding. Read.
I did.
Where's your analysis,
your timestamps,
your quotations,
your substantiation ?
… your …
… crickets …
hmm.....removing my comment that appeared out of order in this thread
This is complete bullshit. Siouxrose and I have disagreed many different times, on many different things, and she has never resorted to doing the things you accuse her of doing. I have also witnessed her, throughout the 2 plus years I have been commenting here, disagreeing with many different people in a respectful way.
The difference, Wuppertal, is that I am not on these boards to JUSTIFY the continued breach of Civil Liberties as being undertaken by an increasingly authoritarian state. In case you missed the SIXTY posts by this new boot-licker, I can say with certainty that he exposed his bona fides in the Naomi Wolf thread of several days (possibly a week) ago.
I speak about the boundless mysteries of our world, the unfathomable questions mystics have sought to penetrate for centuries. I seek to tie today's current events into the big picture. But I draw a line (in the discourse) when soldier-boys (or girls) enter this forum with the goal of NORMALIZING the protocols of our increasingly totalitarian police-like state. That is NOT a posture that warrants tolerance!
I have plenty of critics when I speak in the cosmic idiom, and yet I still share this sphere of knowledge. I don't expect everyone to like my perspective or agree with it. And I've had MANY respectful debates in these threads, too. The real question is why some would seek to paint me as the witch-hunter (if ever there was an inversion of Truth, this would qualify) and come to the defense of The Authoritarian, rather than admit how dangerous his ethos is... and why it OUGHT to be thoroughly discredited in this forum.
There is NO equivalence between those who act on behalf of, and believe in genuine human liberty with those who wish to stamp it out while giving (false) lip service to the idea of freedom. Anyone who wants to cut me down a peg on this matter shows that they identify with the new Authoritarian State. Besides, do you have any idea how many times this nonsense has been tossed my way.. that I disrespect those who don't agree with me. Let me make it absolutely clear what it IS about. It's about imposters who push the following anything but progressive memes:
1. Their commentary lends support to the right wing/corporate dismantling of the Public Education system
2. It argues FOR the Authoritarian Uni-party camouflaged by the illusion of two camps and the naive prospect of "choice."
3. They pretend that global climate change is a Liberal hoax, or exists only to bring profit to a few via carbon credits.
4A. They turn the serious issue of government malfeasance into the fault of citizens.
4B. These same posters are impervious to the Truth that most citizens have been intellectually abducted by the MSM where lies are passed off as "fair and balanced news." (Remember the high percentages led to believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 911?)
5. Those who make light of the serious issues of our times. They simulate the wait-staff on the Titanic in comments that work to keep the little people contained in the cabins below as the water levels rise higher.
6. Those who defend Monsanto and GM "food."
7. Those who think there should be NO forms of gun control.
8. Those who rally against any form of government regulation, positing that the government is as corrupt as big business. Of course they conveniently leave out the fact that both are corrupt because the firewall essentially separating their interests has been broken down (by the DC lobbying clans).
9. Those who pretend the U.S. economy, in spite of the dissemination of Weapons of Mass Financial Destruction across the globe, rendering the whole thing a house of cards (based in fraud) is really fine and dandy.
10. Those who rail against "illegal aliens" and blame THEM for taking "our" jobs, while giving short shrift to the net impact of NAFTA.
11. Those who give Nuclear Power a pass (and often down-play the radioactive detritus streaming over from Japan as I write this).
12. Those who think the Church has a right to impede women's access to birth control.
13. Those who refuse to consider the ways our society developed in an asymmetric, unbalanced way due to the cruel manner (extended across many centuries) by which women were left out of any and all decision-making bodies.
14. Those who pretend that racism is a thing of the past.
15. Those who cling to their ignorance LONG AFTER facts have been presented that should have altered their views.
16. Those who gang up to shoot the messenger... and regardless of the ad hominems (in this case projected at me), they blame HER for "bringing it on."
17. Those who seem to come to C.D. to aim their loaded words, like weapons, at specific personae on the Left with the express purpose of discrediting these important people.
18. Those who appear to be trained in psy-ops as their posts SOUND Left, yet they always seem to reinforce right wing talking points such as: Feminism is dead, The Left is dead, the OWS movement is unorganized and lacks message, etc.
19. Those who establish familiar identities (in posting day after day for months at a time) only to disappear JUST AS someone else arrives on the scene to take up the EXACT same modus operandi... and talking points. Only this time it's executed through a whole new slew of screen names.**
20. Those who demand that I shut up about anything mystical or metaphysical... as if they have the right to silence the mystic in the 21st century (given the blood-soaked legacy of the church-state in enacting this very item centuries ago). Plus, is a demand for this sort of rigid censorship consistent with persons who honor Freedom and Progressive, open-minded values?
21. Those, of late, here to spit on JFK's legacy! (Disgusting!)
22. Those who hate Jews, or turn the entirety of Middle East foreign policy into Israel's call, or Israel's fault... as if no other collaborating entities come into the equation.
** Not long ago the Site Moderator attested to this fact by banning some posts BECAUSE the posters were caught using multiple sign-on screen names.
Excellent retort Siouxrose. I really appreciate your energetic wavelength, your conviction for uncovering the objective truth of any matter, your insights, and your excellent writing in general. I'm very glad you are here.
Amen !
All people deserve your respect, Siouxrose, for they are your equals.
As for myself in specific, it is hard for me to encompass the notions that you can be so dismissive -to the point of repated accusations that I am a liar in almost all things, for never a better reason than that you and I happen to disagree on some question- of basically every bit of what I have to say, and at the same time expect that me and everyone else that reads your posts must take you seriously even when you indulge in the most inane fantasies.
Do you have -like- the biggest ego in the world or what? ;)
No, I made no accusations about anyone, as anyone capable of reading what I said will see that i was referring to a general subject, not a specific one.
You aren't even conflating an example of a specific with the general -- here -- just insinuating that, with a question.
You apparently, have an extremely selective filter (marginalized perception) of immensely uncivil bullying activities here on CD -- which are almost exclusively dedicated against progressive posters and authors -- as vicious tactics to disrupt, intimidate, and demoralize such.
Calling those out, who are dedicated to a fair, open, authentic, and empowering, civil discourse -- and are against vicious gang-banging character assassination, and personal attacks -- is to me unquestionably the right and moral thing to do.
I glad that you similarly dislike ( not really abhor ) those doing so, but apparently you are perfectly happy in letting them have their way with others, as I've don't recall ever seeing you step in and defend someone being attacked.
Most often, it's you doing the attacking, like in saying this:
"What Siouxrose and too many others here too often do is akin to "witch-hunting", both in their manner and in the results for the forum."
Well, how nice that you :
"assure [me] and everyone that when and if [you] use them it is entirely mistaken."
( 1. ) So, does that mean that we can expect your public apology, whenever caught doing so ?
( 2. ) Or is this way of your apologizing, as much as you intend, in advance ?
( 3. ) Or is your intent to let us know,
that you'd supposedly
never do so purposefully ?
Dial it down a bit dude.
I am on this forum to contribute what I can.
I NEVER comment with the intent to cause either drama or problems.
This sort of paranoid "witch hunt" is HIGHLY destructive, and so I often remind my CD co-commenters of its dangers.
I am your friend, and a friend to all other good people.
Calm down and see the truth of that.
Ignore "Homeostasis". He's a repeat offender banned several times. His former aliases include Namaste, Justice Arcs, Hughnanimous, Gerald, "adamantly so", powerfully_true, npwr.luv, enliven, veracity, HERO-4-PEACE, and a bunch of other temporary aliases. He'll be banned as soon as he's caught again sneaking back in.
And how many screen names have you used (or hidden behind), you sniveling cowardly snitch? What kind of wounded, twisted soul turns his (or her) venom loose on those who seek to LIFT the entire discourse on these threads? Those who are committed to a better world? You soldier kids have really become twisted. One day your guts will reflect what your minds have been forced to do... and it won't be pretty.
BTW: To those who think I've imagined that these threads are under surveillance... why then would a poster have a record (accurate or otherwise) for the poster "Homeostasis" if some in the forum were not being watched? And how come the attacks so often sound the same, word for word... almost as if they are machine-generated by some new form of I.T. software that's being tried out in this forum...
Sand Point probably gave The Secret away... given the indications of his post.
I more than suspect, that it's all to dishearten and further discourage us all, but that only gets my Irish < further > up.
For those who think that such might be an accident, I see that as being much like suspecting that millions of 911 coincidences were similarly so, while the only possible manner of them occurring was that they were synchronistically orchestrated.
Odd, that -- considering this next random 'bit.'
Flipping a million coins, all ending up heads -- is in fact what did happen, to the global system (MIT et al …) that has long been monitoring randomness, now tied (correlated) to highly emotional and shared experiences like 911.
Nice try but not even close. You don't know me personally so go on with your lies and delusions. You're just scared that someone detected your friend's (sock puppet?) familiar language and writing style again and called him out for sneaking back in. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take an I.T. software to figure it out. Everyone knows from years of reading that you missed "Namaste" everytime he got banned. I suspect that you knew that he snuck back in every time but wanted to cover his ass by inventing your usual magic bullshit stories and attack anyone who doesn't buy your bull to be some imaginary soldier kid. You do that all the time and then you call in your sock puppets or stooge friends to blow hot air for you. It's not my fault that he got banned. I hate to say this but you're not a great writer or good at defending anyone. Bye.
It would be really interesting if you would explain how the mindset your post demonstrates can be considered either "Progressive" or "Liberal".
Thanks! ;)
Agreed, with the note that military tribunals are also an end run around the regular military justice system - the one the television series "JAG." (Judge Advocate General) pretended to show. The portrayal, now, seems almost cartoonishly upstanding and courageous compared to today's real military and to this tribunal system. The TV portrayal of "JAG" was not about tribunals but rather a system of justice within the military which looked much like the civilian court system with idealized rules of evidence and treatment of prisoners while saluting. Even a few tattered remnants of those scripted ideals might help. But the entire military is now exposed for what they really are.
The trial(s) coming up are not and never have been about "justice". The commencement of "trials" of "terrorists", be they in military or civilian courts is about validating the lies and justifying the deceit with which the US has conducted its "war on terror". They have been and will be illustrative of the old maxim that the first persons that deceivers have to fool are themselves.
This is a well-meaning article which, given its MSM venue, can't be expected to blurt out the obvious. But since this comments thread is not the MSM, I'll do it for him:
"A military trial for alleged 9/11 terrorists is unlikely to lead to justice" precisely because the "alleged terrorists" (and thanks for that adjective, Mr Fielding) being put on trial did not have the means and wherewithal to pull off those spectacularly murderous attacks. (Cf. Building 7 etc.) The only trial of alleged terrorists that MIGHT lead to justice would be one in which George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and a host of other murderous warmongering rogues were put on trial.
Google 911 Missing Links.
I believe MILLIONS, world wide need explanation, we the PEOPLE demand a fool inquiry regarding the events that led to the creation of B ladin and saddam to mention just two. Including the events that followed the Invasion & assault of Iraq,,,
The forces, the resources, the energy, the finances, the diplomatic & political support, the training & promoting of the two man to power and the consequences that precipitated premeditated consequences considering the data available.
The use of them as an objects of terror.
vis-vis of their respective populations or neighbors in order to acquire resources, & strategic dominance.
Only to destroy them when convenient.
WHY did/do they have to DRONE innocent mothers, women, daughters & sons for crimes they did not commit.
No terror, no torture, just truth
AMEN!
Many don't believe in myth, and take the archetypes of time for the primitive work of over-active imaginations. As if these prototypes which are to our psyches what DNA is to our biology can be so easily dismissed.
One of the key stories drawn from myth involves Pluto's abduction of the young Goddess Persephone. (Our ancestors quite possibly left these didactive narratives behind sensing that a dense phase of materiality approached; and they wished to guide seekers of Truth with a gift in the form of an enduring message system. It's one that reminds us to not lose sight of our "kinship with cosmos" and the cyclic forces of time that lend shape and character to history. This understanding makes clear that specific themes and lessons, acts that flesh may be heir to, recur. That means we can watch for them, and guard against those that are dangerous or damaging.) Given Pluto's association with "the underwold," it's connected to organized crime, as well as processes that tear down to make space for eventual renewal and rebuilding.
Pluto has begun a 3-year opposition to the U.S. sun (July 4 = 12 degrees Cancer), and the nation HAS been abducted by organized crime. Although not expressed through Italian names and familiar "Crime Families, the Disaster Capitalists have Pluto "written" all over them. And they are bringing the nation to its knees. There's no light in the underworld, hence Pluto's association with "The Dark Side."
MANY nations fall under cardinal signs. They are being similarly impacted by creeds that utilize the premise of terrorism (fear placed on Steroids) as the pretext for suppressing liberties long-enjoyed by citizens of free and relatively open societies.
I coined the term "Carpicon" for this era and its chief modus operandi. It blends the word Corporate--for the times suggest Rule for, by, and of the corporations, crossed with Capricorn, the sign where dark ambition can blind the soul. Ruled by Saturn (etymological analogy to Satan), this last of the 3 earth signs is where the temptations of materialism (in the form of vast wealth) run highest, and invoke the spiritual axiom: "What profiteth a man to gain the world and lose his soul."
Processes of breakdown and rebuilding are facilitated through numerous channels; however, who can argue that Earth Mother/Demeter/Gaia isn't playing an increasingly active role? As I've posted before, Hindu Adept, Yogananda, spoke to congregations at the U.N. (in l949, after WWII) to specifically elucidate the relationship between widescale violence engineered by human beings and disruptions to the harmonic fields that maintain balance and order in the ecological realms, weather systems included.
The Dark Side, signified by Pluto, is VERY active in our world having abducted weapons systems and financial systems to serve its own ends. Although Pluto remains in Capricorn until 2025, a cosmic congress will convene between the Zodiac's arbiters of law and order, Saturn and Jupiter (as is the case once every 20 years) in 2020... and I find it promising that they'll join forces in Aquarius... the sign most directly linked to Truth. In a planned succession, this sign follows Capricorn on the wheel of time; and it's where the corporate rule, like that of the old Pharaohs, is exposed for the unjust set of pretenses that it is. In its place, power becomes more evenly distributed, and a time of Sisterhood & Brotherood thrives. Along with this shift comes the inception of universally respected egalitarian laws and related value systems. Life, rather than death (through endless wars), takes its place as the center of human existence. As life will become very precious to those who recognize the increasing threats made to it.
We're in for a VERY rough ride... 2020 may prove a Deliverance Date, but the next 3 years will prove some of the toughest that many will ever encounter.