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The Gullible Center
So, can we talk about the Paul Ryan phenomenon?
Congressan Paul Ryan (R-WI)
And yes, I mean the phenomenon, not the man. Mr. Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee and the principal author of the last two Congressional Republican budget proposals, isn’t especially interesting. He’s a garden-variety modern G.O.P. extremist, an Ayn Rand devotee who believes that the answer to all problems is to cut taxes on the rich and slash benefits for the poor and middle class.
No, what’s interesting is the cult that has grown up around Mr. Ryan — and in particular the way self-proclaimed centrists elevated him into an icon of fiscal responsibility, and even now can’t seem to let go of their fantasy.
The Ryan cult was very much on display last week, after President Obama said the obvious: the latest Republican budget proposal, a proposal that Mitt Romney has avidly embraced, is a “Trojan horse” — that is, it is essentially a fraud. “Disguised as deficit reduction plans, it is really an attempt to impose a radical vision on our country.”
The reaction from many commentators was a howl of outrage. The president was being rude; he was being partisan; he was being a big meanie. Yet what he said about the Ryan proposal was completely accurate.
Actually, there are many problems with that proposal. But you can get the gist if you understand two numbers: $4.6 trillion and 14 million.
Of these, $4.6 trillion is the revenue cost over the next decade of the tax cuts embodied in the plan, as estimated by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. These cuts — which are, by the way, cuts over and above those involved in making the Bush tax cuts permanent — would disproportionately benefit the wealthy, with the average member of the top 1 percent receiving a tax break of $238,000 a year.
Mr. Ryan insists that despite these tax cuts his proposal is “revenue neutral,” that he would make up for the lost revenue by closing loopholes. But he has refused to specify a single loophole he would close. And if we assess the proposal without his secret (and probably nonexistent) plan to raise revenue, it turns out to involve running bigger deficits than we would run under the Obama administration’s proposals.
Meanwhile, 14 million is a minimum estimate of the number of Americans who would lose health insurance under Mr. Ryan’s proposed cuts in Medicaid; estimates by the Urban Institute actually put the number at between 14 million and 27 million.
So the proposal is exactly as President Obama described it: a proposal to deny health care (and many other essentials) to millions of Americans, while lavishing tax cuts on corporations and the wealthy — all while failing to reduce the budget deficit, unless you believe in Mr. Ryan’s secret revenue sauce. So why are centrists rising to Mr. Ryan’s defense?
Well, ask yourself the following: What does it mean to be a centrist, anyway?
It could mean supporting politicians who actually are relatively nonideological, who are willing, for example, to seek Democratic support for health reforms originally devised by Republicans, to support deficit-reduction plans that rely on both spending cuts and revenue increases. And by that standard, centrists should be lavishing praise on the leading politician who best fits that description — a fellow named Barack Obama.
But the “centrists” who weigh in on policy debates are playing a different game. Their self-image, and to a large extent their professional selling point, depends on posing as high-minded types standing between the partisan extremes, bringing together reasonable people from both parties — even if these reasonable people don’t actually exist. And this leaves them unable either to admit how moderate Mr. Obama is or to acknowledge the more or less universal extremism of his opponents on the right.
Enter Mr. Ryan, an ordinary G.O.P. extremist, but a mild-mannered one. The “centrists” needed to pretend that there are reasonable Republicans, so they nominated him for the role, crediting him with virtues he has never shown any sign of possessing. Indeed, back in 2010 Mr. Ryan, who has never once produced a credible deficit-reduction plan, received an award for fiscal responsibility from a committee representing several prominent centrist organizations.
So you can see the problem these commentators face. To admit that the president’s critique is right would be to admit that they were snookered by Mr. Ryan, who is the same as he ever was. More than that, it would call into question their whole centrist shtick — for the moral of my story is that Mr. Ryan isn’t the only emperor who turns out, on closer examination, to be naked.
Hence the howls of outrage, and the attacks on the president for being “partisan.” For that is what people in Washington say when they want to shout down someone who is telling the truth.
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167 Comments so far
Show AllWhat amount of taxes are the elite 01% willing to pay for the use of this country's infrastructure and to enjoy its protections? Is there a minimum they would be happy to pay? Don't they have any "personal" responsibility?
Zero, NO, and NO.
"What amount of taxes are the elite 01% willing to pay for the use of this country's infrastructure and to enjoy its protections?"
Looks like currently it's about about 35-40% of the total. If you go further down to the top 10% they pay about 70%.
False. Individual income taxes make up 42 percent of all Government tax revenues.
That means fully 58 percent of tax revenues come from other sources (Payroll taxes, Coporate taces excise taces). Payoll taxes make up the greatest share of this which is 40 percent of all revenues. (Virtually equal to income taxes as a share of revenues and climbing as a share while income tax drops)
That 70 percent you cite is thus 70 percent of 40 percent which is 28 percent of all taxes.
Given that 10 percent you cite owns 70 percent of all wealth in the United States of America and sees the bulk if its income come from investments WHICH THE STATE does not consider income then those 10 percent a vastly undertaxed BY THE NUMBERS.
I was talking about fed income taxes yes. That's what gardener was inquiring about ("this country's infrastructure and to enjoy its protections"). The ones used by the gov to run the place.
Payroll taxes are medicare and SSI not normally used to run the country. Even tho the gov "borrows" from SSI constantly.
If you wanna get into corporate taxes, yes, i do think they should be paying more.
As far as the Government in the United States is concerned Social security taxes are indistinguishable from Income taxes and are spent as they are recived on "Running the country".
The fact is compared to the countries of the First World US income taxes are far too low. Lowering them more will not increase tax revenues. if you look at Government spending as a percentage of revenues and compare it to the OECD list of major industrialised nations only Mexico has a lower rate of total taxation and it is a basket case.
And the original post asked what percentage of TAXES not what percentage of income taxes. The two are vastly different.
Allrighty, so lemme correct my original statement then: The top 10% pay 55% of ALL federal tax liabilities. You were right it's a little less than 70%.
But when you earn more than 80% of the income, you should at least be responsible for 80% of the taxes. Nice try, though, on playing stupid.
Nice try, that percentage is more like 45% before taxes for the top 10%.
You would be wrong again. Fully 1/3rd of the Federal deficit last year was DEBT using borrowed money.
There was some 3.8 trillion total spending. Over 1.2 trillion of this was not funded by taxes be it Payroll excise corporate or income taxes.
You take that 3.8 trillion and subtract 1.2 trillion leaving 2.6trillion 58 percent of this by your 10 percent is around 1.6 trillion. 1.6 trillion out of 3.8 trillion is around 33 percent.
It does not look the same as claiming "The top 10 percent pay 70 percent of all taxes" does it?
I am using IRS tables freely available. And I corrected the original statement. It is 55% of ALL federal taxes (income, medicare, SSI, etc). They are paying 70% of the federal income taxes. Sounds better?
Krugman sez:
"...It could mean supporting politicians who actually are relatively nonideological, ... And by that standard, centrists should be lavishing praise on the leading politician who best fits that description — a fellow named Barack Obama."...
------------
The non-ideological Obama who praises the "free market" on an almost weekly basis. The non-ideological Obama who refuses to have his Justice Dept. investigate even one of the thousands of felonies committed by his wall street wrecking crew. The non-ideological Obama who personally muscled supported to push through the robo-signing "deal" which stealthily has the public paying $20 billion of the $25 billion in fines. The non-ideological Obama who had the opportunity to let the Bush tax cuts expire before the Republicans took control of the House but chose instead to punt. The non-ideological Obama who has frozen federal wages of public workers for several years. The non-ideological Obama who renominated Ben Bernanke who then continued to hand out trillions in unaccounted ZIRP loans and conducted multiple QEs to save the banks at the expense of savers and workers. The non-ideological Obama who refuses to even consider any stimulus program that doesn't involve tax cuts. The non-ideological Obama who refuses to even discuss any FDR type work program. The non-ideological Obama who is pushing through free trade agreements faster than his predecessors. The non-ideological Obama who colluded with union leadership to push through crushing wage and benefit concessions for U.S. auto workers.
Paul Krugman is living in an alternate reality if he thinks informed readers will not find this article a work of sad suck-up partisan comedy.
We've been lucky to have Bernanke. Things could have been much worse. Your ideas about Obama, tax cuts, stimulus, work programs are silly blather. Republicans will not allow any of that and you know it. Romney wanted to bankrupt GM and Chrysler. The auto workers would have been much worse off. You are living in an alternative reality.
Despite all the time you've spent at CD trying to win the confidence of those who read and post here you have absolutely nothing to show for it.
You have not convinced a single informed person to buy your DNC nonsense.
Ben Bernanke wrong 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.
YouTube must watch video:
http://tinyurl.com/7cjylr3
Greg R
Lucky to have Bernanke? He has been busy devaluing our currency and giving banks money at almost zero interest. And who exactly does his policy favor? Not working Americans.
The Republicans won't allow? For over two years Obama had the Senate and the Congress so blaming Republicans for not doing something is in the "Pig's Flying" catagory.
As to Mr. Krugman, if you want an excuse or apologia for Mr. Obama just dial up a Krugman article. Neither he nor Mr. Obama ever met a problem or a solution that failed that was their fault.
How do you expect to gain jobs, which we truly need, without devaluing the currency? How much should they charge the banks? Do you think it is better to not allow someone with a good idea to borrow money at a reasonable rate? Now, of course, many dreamers at this web site will say we need an entirely different banking system or whatever, but that's NOT going to happen, so get real. Just because democrats were in control for awhile does not mean that some of them can not be bought by powerful interests. Do you understand the real world or were you just hatched?
Devaluing the currency hurts savers and small business (who create and maintain over 78% of the jobs in our country) and devestates those of smaller means.
Were you under the impression that money was being loaned to create jobs? Who is just hatched? Were you under the mistaken impression that the small amounts available were loaned at at reasonable rates? Another world? Were you under the impression that Big Business was interested in creating jobs? Real world?
Complete control of the government means you can get whatever you want through. The slimey passing of Obamacare should prove that to you. Any of the things claimed to be stopped by Republicans could have been passed at any time.
I obviously occupy the real world.
A little devaluing helps exports, which creates MUCH needed jobs, which helps the balance of payments. How often in the past could anyone get a home loan for under 5%? This is an opportunity for many. Nothing is ever roses for all, all the time. You have the thinking ability of a 2 year old.
How do you expect to gain jobs, which we truly need, without devaluing the currency? How much should they charge the banks? Do you think it is better to not allow someone with a good idea to borrow money at a reasonable rate? Now, of course, many dreamers at this web site will say we need an entirely different banking system or whatever, but that's NOT going to happen, so get real. Just because democrats were in control for awhile does not mean that some of them can not be bought by powerful interests. Do you understand the real world or were you just hatched?
"We've been lucky to have Bernanke."???? Nightsweat ben and timmy geithner do everything they can to help the banksters. They want the biggest fraud in the history of the world to CONTINUE. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???? Or is that why you like bernanke????
Recently,on another thread I wrote, "If they[true believing Obots]were to see ALL the abuses and criminal behavior[of the banksters,the powerful and well connected]occur directly in front of them,they still wouldn't get it." Then I read greg r's comments here. I was badly mistaken and much too generous. There's good reason for believing that if the Obots saw all the abuses and criminal behavior occur directly in front of them,they would be cheering it on.
Greg R, you are clearly a smart guy with blind spots. There must be neural pathways in your active mind with signs posted on them: "No Admittance." I read a wonderful comment by Duwayne Josephson on Chris Floyd's Empire Burlesque that really sums up the Obamabots' problem: "The prouder one is of their intelligence, the harder it is for them to admit they were conned." Ego blocks perception, and it takes some kind of epiphany to clear away the blockages. Unfortunately, epiphanies are hard to come by.
As I have said many times, Obama is an asshole and a major disappointment. BUT, he's still the best choice we have. Sad, but fucking true.
Keep digging.
Cygnus-X1-isaHole, yes, your points are unfortunately true and typical for Krugman, who like many soft-propagandists supporting Obama as a pragmatist, moderate, Democrat try to scare the sheeple into voting for the 'least worse', without ever raising the real concern that Obama is the best empire cap on popular revolution "Against Empire" [Michael Parenti].
People like Obama and Krugman will slow-walk us into pure tyranny ---- a bit slower but surely.
Best to you and yours, Cygnus-X1-isaHole
Liberty, democracy, justice, & equality
Over
Violent/Vichy
Empire,
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Occupy Empire sign:
“The faces of Empire”
Obama = Petain
Romney = Hitler
What gutlessly voting for
'least worst' leads to.
Pick your poison.
Slow-acting or fast.
If anyone should know about frauds, it would be Obama. His JOBS bill is nothing but a fraud and will actually undermine new job creation. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are frauds--just pick the one whose policies are least likely to affect you and hold your nose when you vote. It's really come down to "every person for himself" in this Hobbsian world.
Good points. Krugman has long since stopped making any sense at all, and is now nothing more than an extremely well-paid propagandist for the Democrats and the banksters. He's basically a bond salesman, not an economist. Extremely corrupt person and more than obviously quite partisan. Ryan's ideas are quite idiotic, but no more so than Krugman's. The real Trojan Horse we have to worry about is the debt, and the massive interest payments we will soon be paying if we don't get our economic house in order. Krugman claims that the interest will never go up but of course it will. It will be over a trillion a year by the end of the decade. And Krugman knows this perfectly well. But his bankster buddies will be the ones collecting the interest, and won't suffer from the massive austerity that will result so he hides the truth.
Right on, Cygnus. And I'm also tired of seeing the right wing yes-men presented as thoughtful, mild-mannered, centrist political personae worthy of respect! The big guys know who these unapologetic, as loyal as hounds to big money, creeps are... from Rick Scott, to Scott Walker, to John Yoo, to this Ryan clown. Every one of them is loyal to one thing: profit, and the paymasters who've got it. What passes for ideology is merely the PR necessary to cover the graft.
For anyone to even remotely consider a plan that would give YET MORE benefits to the upper 1% given the statistics that prove our nation is sinking to the level of The Great Depression (in terms of unemployment, added to the chasm between the rich and everyone else) should be certifiable! I'm talking lunatic asylum, were any still in operation.
Just as the MSM talking heads, and some of its posers in this forum like to pretend that the Tea Party really has a strong message (and its act together), "hence" all its media time... in a similar fashion, these creeps ready to further gut the nation's assets are trotted out and given titles. Why? So they can legitimize polices that are so detrimental to the American people that they should be against the law. Instead, these knights of the 1% table are christened with titles, and given the power and influence to implement programs that will ensure that an abundance of misery goes round.
IF we had a functioning judiciary and I had any clout on it, I'd sentence every one of them to being chained to a seat and forced to view the film, "A Christmas Carol" until they had a spiritual breakthrough and were ready to give away all of their ill-begotten fortunes to the truly poor and downtrodden. (I would also consider "piping in" significant levels of marijuana fumes to "enhance" the cognitive re-programming process.)
Judging by the numbers of Libertarian Cannabis consumers I've met, I think something stronger may be called for, perhaps a communal Ayahuasca ceremony?
just a thought...
Most Americans are clueless about the current economic situation and republican plans. The fact that a decent liberal site like CD has so many clueless posters just shows how ignorant our nation truly is. I guess you can't change stupid. The US slide will surely continue.
"Most Americans are clueless about the current economic situation and republican plans."
As if you have an inside track. Anyone who writes that we're lucky to have Bernanke is so clueless and so ideologically impaired, he/she is really only qualified to hand Bernanke, Geithner, and Obama toilet paper when they have to wipe their asses.
What are you doing here, if you hold us in such contempt? Hey, if you are so tuned into the "current situation and republican plans," I challenge you to write at Ian Welsh's site or maybe you could go over to Naked Capitalism and share your superior economic knowledge.
"2013 will be ugly. If Obama wins he will stop pandering to progressives and liberals. Since he never has to be reelected again, he will be even worse than he was 2009-2011. If you want anything from Obama, anything, get it before the election, do not believe promises, do not accept promises, accept cash only. If Romney or Gingrich wins, well, it’s not going to be any better. SOPA and PIPA will be back in 2013 in some form, so will the pipeline enviros think they’ve killed."
http://www.ianwelsh.net/the-blindingly-obvious-about-obama-2013-europe-iran-and-so-on/
You go ahead and pander to Obama, Greg R. See how far being a "Good Democrat" gets you in the years to come.
Frankly I do not understand your response as I did not read any endorsement of any person or political party. They stated that the average american is dim when it comes to economic policy. Nice rant but please save it for the appropriate post.
timebiter, here is what Greg R has also written in his response to this article:
"We've been lucky to have Bernanke. Things could have been much worse. Your ideas about Obama, tax cuts, stimulus, work programs are silly blather. Republicans will not allow any of that and you know it."
I can't help but conclude that he's quite the Obama/Democratic partisan.
Oh, golly, don't we long for Greenspan?????
How can you tell the difference? Serious question.
If Ian Welsh, per the quote, thinks Obama has been "pandering to progressives and liberals", why would anyone want to read anything else he has to say, this being so clearly untrue. The pendulum that is Obama may swing left as well as right, but the whole apparatus is situated so far to the right of center he actually swings from far right back toward the center, then to the far right again, etc. Liberals, much less progressives, practically need binoculars to follow his movements.
'Pander' is not the wrong word, but the to whom is completely erroneous. Good politics would have had Obama throwing a few periodic crumbs to the left, but he didn't even bother to do that.
We will be stuck with gutless politicians and a continual rightward shift in American politics as long as candidates have to raise massive sums of money to even stand a prayer of being elected. Pretty much guarantees that big-money interests and their lobbyists get to run the show.
- Public financing of all elections.
- Overturn Citizens United.
- Provide X hours/month of free airtime on our publically-owned airwaves (TV and radio) to all candidates.
- Establish instant-runoff voting, or some other mechanism whereby votes for third- and fourth-party candidates aren't seen as a "wasted" vote for the two-party frontrunner.
Under the current electoral system, intelligent, well-meaning, progressive candidates are barely heard nor seen.
duplicate post deleted
With Romney, the Supreme Court can only get worse. Under Obama, there is reason to be hopeful that the 5-4 majority can be made to swing the other way. His appointment so far have only been able to keep the four sane votes on the Court. If one of the 5 retires in the next four years, there's a chance the insanity can be reversed. With Romney, there is no chance.
How wonderfully condescending of you. It must be difficult for you to be so misunderstood...I've seen this kind of vain arrogance before; it is all too common. Sigh
Greg R
Every time I read this type of comment I wonder how out of touch someone can get. It's apparent that all sides understand our situation, it is the cure, the solution they differ on. As to the American people in general most are well aware of what is happening, check the last three elections.
Greg R
Interesting that you would choose to talk about yourself in this manner. Here's a clue for you; the Republican plan IS the Democrat plan. "obama" IS the Republican nominee. The "US slide" continuing is the objective (as far as the general population goes). And, Greg R will help them do it.
Obama would have been a perfect mainstream republican 10 or 15 years ago. It's most disappointing that he is the only choice.
It's funny that no one so far has attacked Krugman's article on its merits. It's a straightforward, succint piece which denounces Ryan as a run-of-the-mill Ayn Randite with a simple-minded plan to flush the economy further down the toilet for the benefit of the hyper-rich and the detriment of everyone else. Does anyone really have a problem with that analysis? I don't always agree with what Krugman says, but I like the way he says it, and look forward to reading his articles-which always manage to combine insightful analysis with jargon-free language, and even some humor now and then. I guess that makes me a liberal sell-out.I'm happy with that.
Bravo, having a grasp of reality seems important to me, and apparently to you also. I'm sure that living in dreams has its pleasures, but they only help the dreamer. It's actually kind of masturbatory thinking. I can't hate that kind of person, but its disappointing.
I like to think that I have a grip on reality, but that's probably a delusion. No doubt someone will come along and point that out :)
Just so you know, I didn't flag your comment. However, the following should be announced in a voice like that of the speaker featured on Saturday Night Live.
"Greg R is a long-term Commondreams poster who defines himself as a farmer, and one who touts the benefits of GM technology, Monsanto's products, in particular. He also never seems to give any time to tending his fields, given the hours he spends posting mostly Democratic apologia in this forum. If anyone thinks he IS what he purports to be, they only need read his tiresome pro-Dem lines to get a clearer sense of his legitimacy.
Got some slaves, do you Greg... out there tending those Monsanto waves of grain? While you show up day after day in thread after thread singing the "lesser of evils" refrain when not down-playing the TRUE state of the U.S. economy.
Well, Sioux rose, at least you didn't wave the flag of reason while going after Greg. That would have been pretty funny coming from an ASTROLOGER. Really Sioux, you should stick to bogus spiritualism, and lay off of economics. As my favorite machinist says on his answering service: "You have reached the confines of Quality Machine. We are able to answer your call. See ya later".
The astrologers were the WISE men who noticed the stellar configuration marking the birth of Christ. Just because an ignorant fool such as yourself, has neither studied the subject nor shown it any respect, hardly disparages me or the nature of my work. Your obvious purpose is to play sidekick to Greg R in this thread that he's so fully managed to dominate. I have a strong theory that anyone who dominates a thread, posting upwards of 15-25% of ALL posts is like "the lady who doth protest too much." They generally have AN agenda. I've had you pegged for a low level DOD boy for a long time. No surprise that your comment reflects your Neanderthal level of consciousness.
Good night, and good luck. Maybe the new TSA guy can coach you on developing a more convincing approach in these threads.