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An Internet Troll's Opinion Should Carry No More Weight Than Graffiti
The web is full of opinions, but without knowing the authors' motives for posting them why should we pay them any attention?
This Valentine's Day, as usual, I received several heartfelt anonymous messages. "You're not funny, you cock", "Why are you such a smug shit?", "Just seen you on a repeat of Mock the Week, I wish you would die". That sort of thing.
But then I get that every day – all comedians do (apart from the funny non-smug ones who are already dead). In fact, everybody does; that's one of the joys of the internet age. On 14 February everyone used to look forward to the possibility that someone would share their passionate feelings incognito, and now it happens all the time. As soon as you have a Facebook wall, a Twitter feed, or simply a name that someone can type, Anonymous Missives Inc is open for business. And it's not only people who are the targets of strangers' ardour – restaurants, bars, hotels, books, movies and DVDs are all the objects of feelings so strong that those holding them are embarrassed to reveal their identity.
I'm sure embarrassment is what it is. Like love, hate is something that makes us go red in the face. It's safer expressed covertly lest it be rejected. If the local cafe knew it was you who found the service unfriendly or the muffins over-priced, it would make you feel vulnerable. This way, you get to call the manageress a wart-faced crone without it getting personal. Anonymity, like a secret ballot, is a guarantee of sincerity.
There was certainly nothing insincere about the 30 negative reviews of The Good Life restaurant in Shrewsbury that were posted online last autumn. They came from the heart. In fact, they came from the same heart: all 30 were written, under different names, by Ms Helen Griffiths, a marketing manager from Salford. But she wasn't managing the marketing for The Good Life – this wasn't an elaborate exercise in reverse psychology. Ostensible offence at "cold and unattentive" staff and "hairs in my quiche" hid Ms Griffiths's real dislike: the vegetarian restaurant's owner, Joanna Langfield. Griffiths was angrier than even tofu can make you, because Langfield is the ex-partner of Griffiths's husband and, last August, became involved in some legal dispute with him.
The online review dispute, in contrast, was deemed illegal. Ms Griffiths, after being given a police caution for harassment, had to publish an apology for the aspersions she'd cast, carefully picking them out of the house hummus and admitting that she'd "never actually visited or eaten at the restaurant". This was the end of a long battle for Joanna Langfield to restore The Good Life's good name in the face of a hate barrage that had caused a 25% slump in the restaurant's profits.
One can readily see Langfield's problem. When a restaurant owner approaches a website to ask for some negative reviews to be removed, saying they're biased, the claim is going to be viewed with scepticism – in the unlikely event that the website has any staff to view it at all. Online reviews, either anonymous or with no verifiable name, customarily go up unchallenged. We assume that the wisdom of crowds will ensure that a fair impression is given overall – that the uncensored self-expression of hundreds of millions will tend towards the truth. Half the time it just regresses to the mean.
And the rest of the time it goes the other way: over-effusive, hysterical praise. So often you'll read a review that couldn't be bettered if the hotelier, restaurateur, musician, bar owner or author had written it themselves. In the notorious case of the description of Orlando Figes's The Whisperers – Private Life in Stalin's Russia on Amazon as "Beautifully written ... leaves the reader awed, humbled yet uplifted ... a gift to us all," it's because he had. But he was even-handed enough to cast his eye over rival works of Russian history, anonymously describing Molotov's Magic Lantern by Rachel Polonsky as "the sort of book that makes you wonder why it was ever published" and Robert Service's history of communism as "an awful book"; and, while sucking on the sourest grapes of all, to write of Kate Summerscale's The Suspicions of Mr Whicher, which beat The Whisperers to the Samuel Johnson prize: "Oh dear, what on earth were the judges thinking when they gave this book the Samuel Johnson prize?"
Figes was unmasked in 2010 and apologised unreservedly for having been caught. But let's imagine for a moment that Figes isn't just a foolish man whose sense of proportion and decency got lost in a research trip to the interminable steppe and give him the benefit of that imagined doubt: perhaps he was trying to teach the internet a valuable historiographical lesson about the limited value of unattributed sources. If you don't know who's written something, you can't know why it was written and so you can't trust it. It might genuinely be a fan of Russian history rightly panning some sloppy research, or a quiche expert correctly informing potential customers that, if there's human hair in it, it isn't vegetarian any more. But, if so, why won't they give their names? If they remain anonymous, there's a decent chance it's an envious historian or the wife of the owner's ex.
When you read a bit of graffiti that says something like "Blair is a liar", you don't take it as fact. You may, independently, have concluded that it is fact. But you don't think that the graffiti has provided that information. It is merely evidence that someone, when in possession of a spray can, wished to assert their belief in the millionaire former premier's mendacity. It is unsubstantiated, anonymous opinion. We understand that instinctively. We need to start routinely applying those instincts to the web.
Some argue that anonymous online commenting should be restricted, that websites shouldn't allow it – they should make you put your name to your words. But that would lead to annoying cries of "Censorship!" and would inhibit the web traffic by which news agencies hope to increase their imperceptible online advertising revenues to a noticeable pittance.
Instead we should merely heed Figes's warning. If you read a review, an opinion, a description or a fact and you don't know who wrote it then it's no more reliable than if it were sprayed on a railway bridge. We should always assume the worst so that all those who wish to convince – whether vegetarian gastronomes or lovelorn suitors – have an incentive to identify themselves.
Comments
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106 Comments so far
Show AllWho decides who is a troll? Is a troll no more than someone you don't agree with? CD could have its own witch hunt. Probably be good for web traffic and fund raising. Divide and conquer. US vs them. Witch one are you? "Kathmandu - After the earlier death of a boy, a 40-year-old woman was accused of practicing witchcraft, beaten, and burned alive by a mob of villagers."
It's not that hard to detect a troll. Their behaviors have been well-documented for decades, and can be summed up as "inauthentic".
When you see someone whose positions are inconsistent, who frequently creates or claims "misunderstanding", responds at an angle or to the least-important part of what's said, sinks your energy, and who only "improves" while people are fed up...it's a good bet that you're dealing with a troll.
But you are a paid shill.
I've read that here several times. ;)
Parallel piece on Al Jazeera Listening Post on the PR companies massaging the social media message in Bahrain - to grafitti - and artists interviewed
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2012/02/2012217112626131152.html
A lot of good points made already including ones by Hummingbird and NateW. This isn't the first atempt to denegrate bloggers as blogging threatens the information/propaganda monopoly that the Corporate media has. As done before, Corp media will try to smear the positive contribution of bloggers by exaggerating the impact of bloggers that are true trolls... My guess the latter's comments aren't taken that seriously anyways because their comments are based more on emotion than fact.
Many of those in the Corporate media have essentially sold their journalistic souls to the devil in exchange for the millions they receive to be talking heads or propagandists. The millions of dollars is actually their compensation to NOT BE anonymous for making the propagandistic remarks they make as their name and personalities are marketing tools. Does David Mitchell believe those "credibly sourced" Corporate media personalities that took us into the Iraq war are more credible than we bloggers who were blogging at the top of our lungs that there was no evidence that Iraq had WMD's and the march to war was a journalistic sham? Or now, who is holding Corp media honest on the their trumpeting of war with Iran? Bloggers provide a counterweight and alternative to the Corporate propaganda machine and the bottomline for any reader is to weigh the evidence from both the Corp world and blogging world as to what is fact.
Oh, by the way, if I told you my name is David Mitchellson, would that give you more comfort to the credibility of my comment? I hope not.
I post semi anonymously, (My real name IS Tom and I really do live in NC), because I had to sign a severance agreement with a former employer that basically says I can say nothing bad about my former employer, or any company they do business with, or anyone that has worked at that company or any employees of companies associated with them.
My former employer was a very large corporation with a very large legal department, and I really have no interest in getting in a battle with them over expressing my opinion about someone or some company that may have ties to my former employer, that I may or may not aware of.
IMHO it is pretty hypocritical when corporations scream about THIER right to free speech, but are quite happy to deny it to others whenever they get the chance too.
I submit the author is a troll employed by BBC, which is afraid of the democratic nature of comment posting. Of course, the fact is that Blair is/was a liar was never pursued with the gusto it warranted by his employer, the BBC.
But since when are "anonymity" and "democracy" synonymous?
I believe a show of hands would be more accurate than voting by secret ballot.
But again, commenting is not voting. :)
Generally on sites like this, trolls can be separated from legitimate commentators by their mission to sow FUD and lack of credibility. I know of a particular site frequented by people often at odds politically who will attack the obvious troll with gusto as the troll is often ignorant of the site's topic and depth it's plumbed. At first when the site was young, those at odds politically would spar often about politics, but that rarely happens anymore as it's understood to be pointless and distractive, while driving away newbies wanting to learn about the site's primary topic. The result is Trolls find no purchase and leave.
Seems a bit more difficult and unsure than simple, in-forum profiles with a post counter though, doesn't it?
I like ignore, search and rating features. CD had archives going back to 2002 when comments were first enabled; I think the present version is 4.0. I found CD soon after its inception and shared it with students, co-faculty, friends and family, yet I'm often at odds with CD. So, I'm a Troll of longstanding.
Depends on who does the counting.
the only ones without any wool over their eyes.
Commenting is not voting.
The secret ballot is a specific solution to mob rule.
It doesn't mean anonymous equals democratic.
Think about Free Speech and a Free Press.
The whole idea there is to negate the need for anonymity.
I agree.
And I would like to add that we should be aware not only of what people and blogs post but also what they don't post.
To wit; I can't find a single reference here on CD about the over 8,000 missiles fired by extremists onto Israeli towns , some even hitting kindergartens.
Nothing about suicide bombing of children by children.
That is bias of the worst order.
Apropos that issue, Morticia, I would have several questions:
1: is there any credible data on how many of the weapons hit a populated location (e.g. a kindergarten in session)?
2: is there any credible data on how many injuries/deaths occurred as a result?
3: is there any credible data showing who fired the weapons that caused the injuries/deaths? This is an especially important question given that we know for certain that the Zionist psychopathocracy have a history of (a) being willing to sacrifice Jews instrumentally and (b) doing false-flag ops as we saw most recently with the passports scandal.
4: how should we factor in the reality that the Zionists are criminal occupiers of Palestine who routinely oppress and kill their Palestinian victims (including children)? And what generally-accepted principle/s support/s that particular factoring?
5. Why didn't Morticia notice the articles about these attacks here back when they happened? I remember several myself.
5. Who made the weapons, and who extended the "credit" to purchase them. Where is the credible data indicating the total value of weapons sold to both sides?
6. Is there any credible data that indicates the financial oligarchy is unaware of the consequences of the "credit/weapons" trade? There is credible data that the people on "both" sides of the borders ar aware and are working to change the economy, and defund the "credit/weapons" scam and fund social economic development. Perhaps there is a synergy right here right now.....
Well sure. We should be aware that you've said nothing of the shelling that Israel engaged in recently.
Nor anything about Khader Adnan.
Let's talk about your bias.
LOL
I'm happy to state here that I am Lee Zaslofsky (male), i live in Toronto, I deserted the US Army in 1970 and came to Canada, where I have been a citizen since 1975, and have spent most of my life working for democratic socialism through the New Democratic Party, through community groups and institutions, through activism on health issues, and in other ways.
Most recently I've devoted a lot of time to the War Resisters Support Campaign, which tries to rally support for and offer help to US Iraq War resisters -- military personnel who have come to Canada to seek sanctuary because of their opposition to the Iraq War (check out www.resisters.ca).
In recent years I have spent a lot of time in Viet Nam, as a tourist and as a would be ESL teacher. I love it there, and I have made good friends there. I would like to retire and live in Ho Chi Minh City, but I don't have enough $$$ to do that so far. (If you want to send me some $$$ to help me realize this ambition, let me know...).
I would like to take part in discussions on a website where the people have a real commitment to democratic social change in the US, but i am becoming resigned to the fact that CD does not really offer this. I will still visit to read the articles, but I don't think I'll be making any more comments, as it seems to be pretty much a waste of time. Maybe I should start my own blog.
Blog away! :)
It would be really great if the Green Party US had the kind of site that many other Greens in other countries have. Many are just as you are wishing for.
Do come back and post from time to time, Lee, and include the (non-)link (URL) of your new blog. Just do it! We promise to visit. :)
I would like to take part in discussions on a website where the people have a real commitment to democratic social change in the US, but i am becoming resigned to the fact that CD does not really offer this.
------------
Out of curiosity, what do you perceive CD's offering to be? I ask because I see a lot of support for vernacular socialism here, including what appears to be a gratifyingly high percentage of anarchic socialists.
a few thoughts and reflections....
"And it's not only people who are the targets of strangers' ardour – restaurants, bars, hotels, books, movies and DVDs are all the objects of feelings so strong that those holding them are embarrassed to reveal their identity."
- god forbid that property owners are subject to criticism by the commoners who don't have the resources to hire an attorney to defend their positions in court.
"I'm sure embarrassment is what it is. Like love, hate is something that makes us go red in the face. It's safer expressed covertly lest it be rejected."
- very prudish interpretation, i suspect mr mitchell has suppressed many emotions. this certainly isn't a reason for others to hide their feelings and emotions.
"Anonymity, like a secret ballot, is a guarantee of sincerity."
- is it ? mitchell is making a lot of assumptions in this piece. personally when i read an anonymous comment or listen to 'anonymous' on the youtube, i process the information w/ large grains of salt. whether it's insincere or sincere is irrelevant until i take the time as a discerning reader to verify the information presented w'/ another source. if i can't, i tend to be suspicious. personal opinions about cuisine and a person's favorite football team is another matter all together.
"Online reviews, either anonymous or with no verifiable name, customarily go up unchallenged."
- is this true ? again an assertion. even if the review isn't challenged by a counter narrative - it does not, on it's face, mean that the people reading the review have a different opinion. it merely means they haven't expressed that opinion in the ascribed venue.
"We assume that the wisdom of crowds will ensure that a fair impression is given overall – that the uncensored self-expression of hundreds of millions will tend towards the truth"
- this is a huge whopper for people who attempt to use critical thinking skills. i know i live in a society that is chuck full of MSM propaganda; therefore - it's incumbent upon me, as a reader, to question everything (nyt's, wiki, my neighbors reflections). it's foolish to blindly accept MSM or the public's opinion w/ out exercising one's mind. remember the maine ? WMD's ? also, what's up w/ the author employing the universal 'we' here (propaganda technique of suggestion).
"he was trying to teach the internet a valuable historiographical lesson about the limited value of unattributed sources. If you don't know who's written something, you can't know why it was written and so you can't trust it"
- not necessarily true, as a comment or phrase can be examined in context and by comparing it w/ other people's thoughts and impressions. ideas never exclusively exist outside of other people's minds.
......................
Everything is a Remix part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxrjsHSbHkY&feature=related
......................
"But, if so, why won't they give their names? If they remain anonymous, there's a decent chance it's an envious historian or the wife of the owner's ex."
- why do they have to explain themselves to you ?
"But you don't think that the graffiti has provided that information. It is merely evidence that someone, when in possession of a spray can, wished to assert their belief in the millionaire former premier's mendacity. It is unsubstantiated, anonymous opinion. We understand that instinctively."
- no it's art. how you interpret art and it's meaning is your business (and mine). mitchell is obsessed w/ ascribing his own value to art and words (oh right he works for a network and a tv show). which is fine, but others have opinions as well (puerile or not).
"But that would lead to annoying cries of "Censorship!" ....We should always assume the worst so that all those who wish to convince – whether vegetarian gastronomes or lovelorn suitors – have an incentive to identify themselves."
- after reading this article, it doesn't surprise me in the least that the author would trivialize the concept of censorship and desire that anonymous folks reveal their identity (so mitchell can quickly attack their character and motives).
Anonymous: Operation Black March 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7DkMrC57TE
- - - - - - - - - -
for those who want to examine some amazing british graffiti, check out bansky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy
or type in the word 'banksy' in google images... and enjoy some of the most amazing urban images i've seen (imho).
...peace...
Jesus H. christ!!!
If half of you trols, paid shills, (whatever), and self proclaimed progressive commentators put half as much effort into helping your fellow humans with something tangible as in, random acts of kindness, volunteering for a food pantry, or what ever as you do posting all this inane fucking bullshit, ESPECIALLY in response to this crap written by some idiot Brit comedian. For fucks sake, what have we all become. Wake the fuck up and do something substantial, other than bitch here with this worthless array of type-farting to the masses online.
Damn!!!!! W.T.F !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get with it. Don't quit it. Bugity, bugity, bugity, bugity, shoop....
Peace
Pet
I love the idea that posting here means one doesn't have time to do something substantial.
I mean, are you a slow typist or what?
And who are you PetMuse to say you do more for fellow humans than people writing on the blogs? Are you not capable of doing two separate and unrelated activities, e.g., commenting on the weakness of an opinion of a CD article and going to a OWS event? Apparently you don't read the comments, otherwise you would know some of the activities many of the commentators are involved in.
It's VERY common for elites to blame their victims. The author is an elite agent trying to manipulate the people's minds, to keep us enslaved. First and foremost, the elite mega-racket of "externalization" of the costs of their massively destructive enterprises, i.e. making those costs anonymous, is by far the greatest crime of all. Further, any delinquent behavior of people, online or anywhere else, is caused by elite oppression of the people. By failing to connect these dots, the author is effectively raising the protective walls of anonymity for those responsible for the dystopia, the elites. The author cannot even recognize the subtle benefits of online anonymity - if we remain anonymous, we won't be taking credit, so positive intentions will be encouraged. He doesn't get it, which is to be expected for an elite agent. Thankfully the people are getting a clue about their own needs, and asserting their own agendas. Elites are frantic over this.
What is this trolling for the DHS?, looking for chronic complainers and subversive types? Say anything critical of government and end up in Siberia without a snow suit.
Wankerific!
David Mitchell laments:
"The web is full of opinions, but without knowing the authors' motives for posting them why should we pay them any attention?"
Well, Mitchell obviously paid sufficient "attention" to the nameless "authors" and their motives to write a whole bleeding column about it for The Guardian.
Frankly, I prefer the opinion of an "Internet Troll" to the sycophantic groveling, cheerleading, and disingenuous drivel that oozes forth from the likes of DailyKos, Digby Hullabaloo, Talking Points Memo, Crooks and Liars, The Huffington Post, ThinkProgress, The Nation, Ana Marie Cox at The Guardian, and the various other boring and insufferable Obamabot informercial blogs and publications that abound on the Internets.
Stop your whining, David Mitchell, and get over yourself!
PS -- If I told you my motives, would you be gullible enough to believe me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
After spending some time reading through a few articles here and elsewhere today and especially after reading this one and this thread I started thinking....
Maybe the presence of trolls and shills is simply to incite the animated and intelligent discussions that often ensue in response to their inane and/or provocative commentary.
It would be a pretty effective means of getting at the innermost feelings, ideas, innovative thoughts, etc of the more informed and increasingly disgruntled commoners who frequent these sites and give 'anonymous' voice to their often insightful observations, diversity of knowledge and expertise (which is evident in almost every comment thread I've read through on CD)....and their disgust over the wreckage being wrought in this country and the world by greed and corruption.......which could be valuable indicators of how far or close we are to being an actual threat to the status quo. It might be that THEY DON"T CARE WHAT WE THINK!...but I suspect they DO care what we think.
Not to mention how much easier it would be to round up ALL dissenters if the depth and breadth of truest feelings could be softly coaxed and/or insultingly provoked out of them, documented and filed away....especially easy, imo, when unpatriotic words of dissent and information about practical, equitable solutions to what ails us are voiced more freely because they are believed anonymous. Yeah, right. Anonymous only to those having the presumably anonymous conversations....which are anything but, to those authorized and directed to know who is talking.
I don't have any particularly useful information as far as solutions go, but I am certain I would be considered a 'threatening' dissenter for my deeply felt and often expressed distaste for our corrupt, increasingly oppressive corporatocracy.
".which could be valuable indicators of how far or close we are to being an actual threat to the status quo."
fair point, but a question. does the understanding that your thoughts are being monitored (for whatever purpose) automatically discourage you from expressing your opinions - in hopes like minded people are listening ? or, are we so far down the rabbit hole that it just doesn't matter - one way or the other (whether we express ourselves or not) ?
Emmanual Goldstein, Freedom Party 2012....
...peace...
Good question, iowa....don't have an answer, but as much as my optimism-challenged self can say....it is likely I would lean towards the rabbit hole conclusion and hope I'm wrong.
Am I the only one who thinks the anecdotes are hilarious? Can't you guys at least give him that much?
David Mitchell is primarally a comedian, not a serious social commentater, and yours is the first comment I've read on here that actually notices that fact. After scanning through most of the serious, irony-devoid, po-faced, misinformed comments above, it just confirmed my suspicion that too many CDer's seem to have had some kind of sense of humour by-pass operation on their brains.Maybe it's a US-Brit/European thing. I think Mitchell is hilarious. I loved him in Peep Show and Mock the Week. Here he is promoting the benefits of necrophilia in his similar understated, deadpan style. I'm sure to many CDers, that will mean he really is a necrophiliac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B_Yw-JAnuw&feature=relmfu
Hilarious! The only thing that redeems the Brits, in my eyes (because certainly, their food does NOT), is their sense of humor. : ) OK, so I do like some of their music, too. And their wools.
Folks, let's get our panties out of their wads, shall we?
WonderWoman
Making disparaaging comments about British food is a tired cliché and a stale leftover from World War II and demonstrates ignorance of the eclectic nature of British cuisine, which includes the live, local, and organic movement and features great vegetarian food, some of the best Italian food this side of Tuscany, and the best South Asian restaurants this side of Mumbai and Karachi. If you haven't savored fish and chips with curry sauce, then you've missed a delicious treat.
Many traditional British dishes -- especially meat pies and game and puddings (Yorkshire) and Dover Sole and Welsh rarebit (rabbit) and fish and chips -- are brilliant when prepared well with fresh ingredients. Plus, British ales and stouts and lagers and signature cheeses (like Blue Stilton and Cheddar and Sage Derby) are among the best in the world.
PS -- Your "panties" are your own responsibility and you can wad or unwad them as you see fit -- the rest of us are none of your business.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last time I was in London, I ate all of my meals at Indian, Japanese, and French restaurants. So, yes, the "imported" cuisine is worthwhile.
Don't get me started about my disgust with British meat pies. I do not consider "slime" to be a healthy part of any meal, nor a part of any food group.
WonderWoman
I've never heard anyone refer to British meat pies as "slime" – a mealy-mouthed and pathetic slander for a venerable culinary institution to be sure -- but that statement says more about your palate than it does about the quality of the pies.
Did you purchase your fare from Mrs. Lovett's Pie Shop in nearby Bell Yard by means of an underground passage?
You should have tried Walter Smith; or Dickinson & Morris; or Fortnum and Mason; or Marks & Spencer; or Bray's Cottage; or Elite Meat; or Burbush's of Penrith; or Waitrose, to name but a few, if you didn't have access to the lovely bespoke and homemade editions prepared by the local shops and/or friends and family.
Clearly, madam, you don't know where to shop or dine for British meat pies -- if you did, you couldn't have made such an utterly vapid and foolish statement. Full stop. End of story.
But it’s a matter of taste. Consequently, if you equate British meat pies with "slime," then, by all means, avoid them at all cost. That will mean more of those savory and delicious morsels for the rest of us who relish them.
Actually, there are many beers that “compare” with the Trappist variety, but to compare Trappist beers -- which derive from the Belgian and Netherlands tradition -- with British ales and lagers and stouts is like comparing apples and oranges and soup to nuts. Besides, there is no competition among beers because, again, it's all a matter of personal taste. Rather like humor.
Perhaps you aren't aware that much of the "imported" Italian and French cuisine in London is prepared by British chefs -- see The River Café, located at Thames Wharf, Rainville Road, London W6.
PS -- The phrase "panties in a wad" is a sad, pale, pusillanimous American imitation of the original British phrase, "knickers in a twist."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All I can remember is that the meat pie I ate was at some restaurant in London, apparently known for its meat pies. And, I could never figure out why. Only god knows what was in that thing. I couldn't eat more than a few bites. It was a few years ago, so I can't even remember the name or exact location of the restaurant. Sorry - I don't think anything could convince me to ever try another British meat pie again.
I will admit to enjoying fish and chips on occasion, though.
I'll agree with you about British beers being good. That's why I deleted that part of the comment. I'm not really a beer-drinker, except when I go overseas and it's the authentic good stuff (some can be found imported here, thankfully). Although... there are a few beers from breweries here in the U.S. that I occasionally will also drink. But, I'm more of a wine drinker. Any British wines you'd recommend? : ) Just kidding. HOWEVER, I did try out some Canadian Inniskillin icewines a few months ago, and they were excellent (very sweet, so they were more like dessert wines and paired very well with a mildly tart dessert of baked pears). I suppose you could count Canada as somewhat British.... : )
Thank you for the history lesson regarding the phrase "knickers in a twist." It sounds every bit as painful as "panties in a wad." : )
Hobgobline
Hold the smug, please.
You're assuming facts not in evidence, since you have absolutely no idea whether or not the commenters on this thread are familiar with David Mitchell and Robert Webb and the comedy duo known as Mitchell and Webb, whose comedy shows have been featured on BBC TV since Peep Show aired (2003-2010), followed by That Mitchell and Webb Look (2006-2010).
You declare that “David Mitchell is primarally a comedian, not a serious social commentater” and applaud commenter WonderWoman for writing the first comment that you’ve read that “actually notices that fact.” D’oh!
Perhaps that’s because many commenters are already familiar with the comedy duo of Mitchell and Webb and their body of work for the BBC over the years and didn’t feel the need to mention the fact, preferring instead to deal specifically with Mitchell's essay currently on offer.
For those not familiar with Mithcll and Webb, CD identifies David Mitchell at the conclusion of his essay as follows:
“David Mitchell is an actor, writer and comedian. Star of the BBC television sketch show That Mitchell and Webb Look, and the Channel 4 sitcom Peep Show, he is also a regular participant on TV panel shows. He writes comment articles for the Guardian and Observer on subjects as diverse as sport and politics.”
That clear and unambiguous designation of Mitchell as an “actor, writer and comedian” might have caused many commenters to consider the fact that he is a “comedian” a point too obvious to belabor in their comments.
From that dubious position, you then launch into a stream of insults directed at the commenters and label their comments as “serious, irony-devoid, pro-faced, misinformed” and declare that too many “CDers” have had “some kind of sense of humour by-pass operation on their brains.” And you’re accusing the rest of us of being short on humor? Speak for yourself!
Plus, you're hurling your insults from behind the cloak of anonymity -- hiding beneath the screen name “Hobgobline” – which makes Mitchell’s point that “the web is full of opinions, but without knowing the authors' motives for posting them why should we pay them any attention?” Exactly.
That said, your motives do seem more transparent than most – to invoke your own self-congratulatory sense of superiority as an arbiter of “humour” (I note the British spelling) and to demean others whose opinions you have deemed deficient in that quality.
The fact seems to have escaped you that it’s possible to be intimately familiar with David Mitchell and Robert Webb and to love their body of work and still take issue with Mitchell’s current essay for reasons that are legitimate for the commenters who posted their responses, especially, since humor is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Hence, according to David Mitchell, your opinion should carry no more weight than graffiti.
PS – “Maybe it's a US-Brit/European thing”?! I’m not quite sure what that means, but speaking as someone who has lived in London and returns there often, I think you've missed the mark...yet again.
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If I were to give my real name, future employers could google it. They might see that I have some "wrong" opinions. I wouldnt want that.
That's probably the most to-the-point reason yet.
I'm sure (but could never have proved) that very thing happened to me, which is why I no longer include my family name when I post. I reckon that although I'm retired, no one can know what might change in future.
why would you wish to work for such?
There might not be another choice, in the moment.
That's one very valid concern. Another is that much of what's wrong in terms of the loudest public opinions comes from people who are very clear who they are-and are utterly committed to spreading falsehoods and getting away with it because they have the right pedigrees.
This article is loathsome. What is up with this site, between this and the pathetic Parson Hedges emanations of late?
Iconoclast,
"utterly committed to spreading falsehoods and getting away with it because they have the right pedigrees."
or, because their souls and careers are traded like pork bellies, or comic books, by the Über wealthy like rupert murdoch or micheal bloomberg.
as to the happy go lucky, feel good, but remember your etiquette tripe...
it might not be overt, but i suspect beneath the surface lurks the dreaded.... troll of all trolls.... the
warning... liberals who commented about this video were alarmed and upset.....
NPR Pledge Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MSjMZ-wko4
just a thought...
...peace...