EMAIL SIGN UP!
Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
No Matter Who Wins, Americans Lose
Why am I so sick of all the media attention to the Republican presidential primaries and all the blabbering about President Obama’s advantages and disadvantages for the coming election? I just cannot get excited. My answer may also be yours: No matter who wins, our nation loses.
(Photo: AP)
Come election night I would be overjoyed to see Obama lose and equally overjoyed to see the Republican candidate, whoever it is, also lose. I cannot see how either Romney or Gingrich or even Ron Paul could possibly offer what is truly needed to fix the root causes of all the dysfunction, corruption and despair with the US political and government system. And Obama? Nothing but slickness instead of results.
Here is a central, common deficiency: No major presidential candidate has come out with strong support for any of the constitutional amendments critically needed to truly reform our system. More than ever, after so much failed government, a whole lot of Americans are ready to support amendments that would, for example, mandate term limits for members of Congress, remove all private money from federal elections, require a balanced federal budget, and revitalize the constitutional requirement for Congress explicitly declaring war.
With one or two billion dollars spent on campaigning for this presidential election cycle the real winners will be all the media companies and army of campaign advisors and consultants getting all that money. With the media and pundits focusing on the election the public has been robbed of real in depth news coverage of countless issues and situations worldwide that we should be far better informed about, especially to better understand exactly what public policies we should want from the president and Congress. The mainstream media that treats the presidential campaigns like sporting events has become as superficial as the presidential candidates.
There is only one scenario that could make me enormously interested in the presidential election outcome. With relatively little media attention to it, few Americans know about the Americans Elect national effort that will place a presidential candidate on every state ballot. The candidates for president and vice president will result from a lengthy process conducted on the Internet involving millions of Americans that have signed up to be part of that process. True, those two candidates that cannot have backgrounds from the same political party, but they may turn out to be somewhat familiar to us because of their past political efforts, though neither will be the same as those on the Democratic and Republican tickets. For a fair analysis of this innovative process read what John Heilemann has said in New York Magazine.
Considering the widespread and deserved disgust among Americans with both major parties, there is a decent chance that people like me will be strongly motivated to vote for the Americans Elect alternative ticket. It definitely will be a vote against both major parties. If millions of Americans make this choice, then I will be overjoyed and so should you. Why? Because it may be the most important historic event that could motivate actions to get us genuine reforms of our political and government system. The Americans Elect ticket does not have to win, just show the Democrats and Republicans how much they are both being rejected.
For this scenario to occur, however, people must stop thinking about the “spoiler” fear that both major parties promote. Democrats want people to fear that a vote for the Americans Elect ticket will cause the Republican ticket to win, and vice versa. In truth, by voting for the Americans Elect ticket we the people have the most important electoral choice to fix our broken system. Think of it as an electoral revolution. The imperative is to stick with your fundamental belief that in the end it really does not matter whether the Republican or Democratic presidential candidate wins, principally because elite rich and corporate interests will still prevail. This means that the vast majority of Americans will continue to get screwed: The top one percent will still own and control our nation under either a Republican or Democratic president. Keep remembering that both major party candidates have lied repeatedly, will keep lying, and will never implement whatever they have promised they will do to reform the system.
My best advice to you now: Stop wasting your time on following all the nonsense about the Republican primaries and later about the main campaign from both major party candidates. Don’t let yourself be manipulated. Instead, sign up at Americans Elect and join the 2.4 million Americans who have already joined the process to give Americans a true alternative to both major parties. Note that 80 percent of people have said they are ready to support an alternative presidential ticket this year. Will they put their votes where their words are?
At some point it will become necessary to mount a national demand that the Americans Elect candidates be allowed to participate in the pre-election national televised debates and also to demand that the mainstream media give equal time and attention to them. If we are to convert our current delusional democracy into a genuine one, then the most patriotic and courageous thing to do is to support the Americans Elect effort.
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...
92 Comments so far
Show AllThis a good article but what the author of this piece does not state is that a candidate like Rocky Anderson is hoping to bypass the traditional way of getting elected by attracting people to his cause [which would mean being against the wars that have been caused by the Bush/Obama presidency, being an advocate for universal health care, environmental regulations, and civil and human rights] through such social media outlets as Facebook and Twitter.
Certainly Hirschhorn's idea is valid. Now if only progressive publications such as The Nation would see fit in doing the right thing by backing someone like Rocky Anderson instead of the usual Democratic corporate candidate like Barack Obama.
https://www.voterocky.org/home
This article does not render false his major claim: i.e., which ever corporate crony gets elected -- be it Obama or Romney -- Amerika will suffer because of it. But I certainly agree with your second paragraph and which -- I am sad to say -- will never happen. The Nation and their ilk as too much investeed in their pay masters to propose something bold and actually fits their ideology. They prefer the illusion of working within the system while feeding off of scraps.
Why not. I am not worried about the "spoiler" effect. Our elections have already been "spoiled". GW's elections were a glowing example of that both times. Electing Obama didn't really effect any real "change". The Gray Davis recall and Prop 8 messes in California prove it happens even on the State level. So at least this way I can vote my conscience.
Our friends in Wisconsin are also thinking of what "we the people" can do -- as they face unprecedented $$$ flowing in for Scott Walker. Read what Ed Garvey is suggestion on a "local" nature:
http://www.progressive.org/how_to_compete_with_walker.html
That's a hell of a picture.
Nasty bit of indigestion, or are they all reaching for a concealed weapon?
they're pulling a bone apart.
Not often you see all four Stooges together.
I see three old white men who look like they've swallowed something
they shouldn't have, and they don't like it. Willard looks in the worst
shape. But Rick looks like he actually enjoyed it. What's wrong with
this picture? Answer: They just don't look capable. They LOOK like
old show biz personalities, caught without costuming or cosmetics.
If I did watch this "show" I'm sure I'd find it embarassing. I don't watch
it. If it were playing for profit, I'm sure any heads-up TV network would
cancel it without hesitation.
I registered with the website. It is an interesting concept, but the questions posed on the website still avoid crucial issues such as poverty and reducing the military budget. Many questions are also misleading such as "Do you support higher taxes?" Higher taxes on whom? On the poor or on the rich? Higher taxes in what forms? Carbon taxes? Sales taxes on luxury goods? Poll taxes? Loaded questions with no guidelines. I understand that the website is geared to appeal to the widest range of discontented voters possible, but from an academic point of view, it plays into the shallow parameters dictated to us by the corporate media. At least it was refreshing to see Bernie Sanders as one of the candidates listed showing that at least one, real progressive is available. I'm not sure if these candidates will be on the ballot or not, but if they are, it is definitely a good way to cast a vote against corporate dominance of the electoral system.
I, too, like the idea and just registered and also found the questions to profile me poor, especially to ones on taxation. Most of my long adult life I often felt compelled to vote for the lesser of evils although in doing so I was still supporting evil but no more! With a Left that has not managed to get together to offer someone else Rocky will probably get my vote. It is sad for me to realize that Nixon would be an improvement over Obama...
The three stooges syndrorme with Americans elect! Hey we had that with the US House UnAmerican Activities Committee. Must be a repeat!
The whole idea is off. Taxation of whom ? A "balanced budget" (right wing goal). Take private money out of campaigns. Like the private money that enabled Gene McCarthy to beat LBJ in New Hampshire? Think before parroting what (some of) the corporate media are pushing.
Rocky Anderson is yet another business class representative, NOT an alternative.
I agree with your support of Rocky Anderson Erroll, however it should be pointed out that Rocky will not appear on the ballot in my State or in California (the biggest electoral State in the Union) or a host of other States because his Party was unable to meet the minimum requirements to get on the ballot (103,000 signatures before January 2012 was one such requirement in California). The system is already thoroughly rigged against ANY candidate who doesn't follow the corporate guidelines for political candidacy. If Rocky doesn't appear on the ballot in your district, then what is the alternative?
If Rocky Anderson doesn't appear on your ballot, write him in.
If your state has not yet had a primary, write Anderson in on whichever party ballot you're stuck with.
Sure the system is rigged. But you can still challenge the system.
Dan
Bravo! Excellent point, as you took the words right out of my mouth. As you accurately note, there is absolutely no reason why Americans have to vote for a representative from either the GOP or the Savage Mules.
Rocky Anderson in 2012.
"after so much failed government"
I tire of such platitudes. Government is a failure until you're a recipient of one of the programs. I think this is the problem with Congress; what our elected official brings home from Washington is good but what the other 49 states spend is wasteful Pork.
Vote Green party or write in Ralph Nader or Ron Paul or Lester Brown or Elizabeth Warren, or whoever you believe in.
No matter who wins, THE WHOLE WORLD loses.
The only difference beween Americans and the rest of the world is that nominal citizens of the imperial homeland get to participate in the electoral facade and the "victory" celebrations. Other than that, your exceptionalist superiority gets you exactly nothing -- not even habeas corpus and other rule-of-law protections dating back to Magna Carta.
Aren't you glad you live in "The Greatest Democracy On Earth" (TM) and that your nation's founders fought and won a revolution against arbitrary monarchical rule and imperial tyranny? Something tells me, however, that the next such revolt will be fought elsewhere.
there is no saving the current political system from itself - it was set up from the word go as a means to protect the interests of "better men" as madison wrote against the "rabble"
congress, currently riding an all time low of 9% approval rating, doesn't care. most incumbents get re-elected as the political process is skewered to their advantage
but folks oughta realize that these political systems everywhere and of all stripes almost without exception are set up in that way
most definitely in amerika
and the author is right - we lose with obummer, newtie and mittens everyone
there was a rumor on drudge yesterday that jeb bush may be offered as no one in the gop brass likes oromney - but that is even worse
no more little bushies for the good old usa
the answer in direct democracy - let the people vote
that's how they do it in switzerland
"What Is Direct Democracy?
Unlike the current “Representative Democracy” where elected representatives make decisions regardless of the wishes of their constituencies, in Direct Democracy individuals vote on critical issues and their decisions are carried out by their elected representatives… Whether they like it or not"
http://www.directdemocracynow.org/
if we can bank online we can vote online
if people are worried about integrity - i got three words for ya - diebold voting machines
for those worried about the political ramifications - go back and read the above column...
It would be even better if we could vote on issues directly and eliminate the Senators and Congressmen. That'll save us a lot of money and create less hot air from DC!
medmedude:
What's in my mind regarding Hirschhorn's article are the matters
of political strategy and the feedback of winning or not winning.
You posted that most incumbents in congress get re-elected.
Yes they do. As you imply, they do so as a consequence of the
imposed FORM for any contesting of elections, which is now in
place, and which long has been intended. [For example, only the
nominees of the two major political parties shall have any chance
of winning, according to the established FORM of electioneering.]
I say that any battle to RE-FORM contests for elected offices won't
be won in a year, and I reckon it won't be won even in the next four-
year cycle. The battle will be long, and must be fought according
to a plan. What might be such a plan? It should be to grow a third
major political party LONG TERM. (Some will say: Forget about
political parties; just let the people vote directly via their personal
computers. I beg to differ. Such direct voting would put upon us
maybe as many as thirty political groupings. We need three major
parties, not thirty "splinter" groupings, no combination of which could
ever muster the discipline to win real battles.)
Speaking of a third-party presidential candidate, Hirschhorn says that
candidate " ... does not have to win, just show the Democrats and
Republicans how much they are being rejected." Well, I reckon such
a candidate will not win in 2012, or in 2016, or maybe not in 2020.
That will be so because such a candidate will not have the force of
an established party [with loyal voters] behind himself/herself. But
winning will be essential due to it's positive feedback to the winner's
political party. What we're faced with (in the short term) is a dilemma:
A third-party candidate can't win without a major established party
to support him/her, and a third major party can't get established
without the positive feedback that would come from having won an
election. Is establishment of a third major party thus impossible?
I think it is not impossible. Those of us who do want a third party must
work at the state and local level: Build a base, and then advance from
that base. With congress' having now only a mere 9% approval rating
[among both the Democrat and the Republican members] surely some
of those members can be defeated. PUT THEM OUT OF OFFICE !
And show the voters that a third political party was responsible for
evicting the nine-percenters. Thereby gain public support for the
third party. We'll evict and evict, and we'll elect and elect, and pretty
soon we'll have a major third party. Thereafter, no cabal of two parties
will be able to make secret deals in congress. NO to secret dealing!
YES to opening the doors of the senate and the house, and letting the
peoples' representatives in!
"American's Elect" was discussed a few days ago on CD.
See this link:
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/01/30-7
One of the candidates they're considering is Joe Lieberman. I don't know about anyone else here, but Joe, & the other "candidates" they're touting smacks to me of continued 1% same-old same-old.... move along now, NOTHING new to see here......
How 'bout Rocky & Jill on the same ticket!
I feel the same way. It's another flavor of the same poison.
Considering Lieberman? Israel's choice I suppose. Throw in the NDAA author Levin and you have what??? oh, my, God. Wake up American't
Zanrak:
I read the lead article in the thread you mentioned. My response
is that we don't need "centrists" now. We need radicals, because
we're in radical need. Our national house is falling down around us.
We don't need to get to the center of a collapsing house. We need
to try to get out of the old house. I'm sorry to say it, but that's how
I see it.
It isn't those who CAST the votes, but rather those who COUNT the votes that determine who gets to be der fuhrer.
MEL
Americans Elect, a front group for a bunch of America's monied elites who reserve the right to over turn what the people might decide on their internet voting! Yep, sounds like the same kind of democracy that we have now! I've got a better idea. Let's build a human size skeet catapult and launch our elected officals off of it with their constituents standing by with loaded shotguns. Any politician or challenger that survives can serve a term at the will of the people! Now those are term limits that we can believe in folks!
Yeah, so what is your source? Or is this just another apologia on behalf of the duopoly?
You want a source?
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/01/30-7
Obama vs Romney: Someone who is taking very good care of the one percent vs someone who IS the is one percent. What a choice!
Americans Elect? Looks to me like they are basically saying "Why can't we just quit all this partisan bickering and agree to cut Medicare and Social Security?"
Astonishing how many bought-and-paid-for-trolls frequent this forum.
"justbreath"
You are making an unwarranted accusation.
It is blatantly clear that this "new" group is coming out of the belief in "bi-partisanship" of the people who are the core of the current corrupt corporate parties.
If you don't believe that a large number of posters participate on this forum while holding specific partisan aims, than nothing I say here will matter to you,and in which case we can ignore each other.
The American Elect @ americanselct does not adovate that by registering one is required to vote for people within the corrupt duopoly; the idea is that any person can be written in on a personal ballot outside of these corrupt organizations; It is one vote for one person irrespective of party affilation. Of course, it also offers the option of party affilation; is that not what Democracy is about?
Dear Lord, please wake up the people. The only way to end the onslaught of grievous politicians is to not give them ANY credence, as in don't vote for anyone. We can end that part of their monopoly by driving the vote turnout to less than 37%. It would create a firestorm of party chaos and send a message bigger than all the Occupies put together.
Here's a thought. Get within the legal 500' or whatever of your voting place with a sign that says..."if you agree with none of these maniacs...don't vote for anyone, but do vote issues on the ballot. Force their hand."
The Lord has really been pissed with the US every since it stole the land from the indigenous people and all but wiped them out. HE will not help us now.
Has anyone seen any advertising for any third party candidate on MSM? And is there a bit too much Repug crap? Course it is making them look as dumb as they really are.
Watch the video on how American select works, before buying into the obfuscations: pretty straight forward. It is a populist program and contrary to the troll brigade, it is not driven by the elites.
http://www.americanselect.org/
Funny - you seem to be their biggest booster here - yet you call them American Select.... Not Americans Elect. Telling? I don't know...
One of the ideas they are floating is that it must be a cross-partisan ticket... So already it's an idea to water down partisanship. Now if you believe that Obama is already a GOPher in Democratic regalia, this doesn't seem like an effort to get a real progressive voice into the mix.
The IP address is americanselect. If you are here to speak on behalf of Z-1 or are Z-1 using another sign on identity, I invite you to produce a SOURCE showing the organization to be corrupt. Outside of that, you have no credibility.
Moreover, what exactly is your SOLUTION to the duopoly? I read a lot of negative critiques based only on what is wrong with this, or that, but lacking any other options. Is that your role here to deconstruct everything? Do you have anything positive to add?
That picture above, looks like it could be the Three Stooges and Rodney Dangerfield pledging allegiance to the 1%! Miitt =Moe; Gingrich=Curly and Sanitariam= Larry.
The only sure way I can see to 'fix' the system is compulsory voting as is done in 35 or so democracies including Brazil, Australia, New Zealand. The problem is that the same old people are being reelected by the same old electorate, all of whom have allegience only to that electorate, and hence no care for populist policies. By changing the electorate we change our system, plain and simple. One page federal statute is needed, establishing voting as a duty on par with jury duty.
Compulsory voting = populism.
People like Lieberman and Hagel don't impress me in the slightest. Have you ever heard of Liberman or Hagel suggest systemic change? No, just more military and more DHS. Stay away from Americans Elect - they're just as committed to the status quo as the current crop of traitors in ALL three branches of government.
America Elects supports empire as a first priority, they're for oil interests and support of Israel whatever it does legal or moral or not. No peep out of them about the hellish national security complex which THEY created. These are people rejected by their parties, not the other way around. Don't fall for this stuff. They're enthusiasts for the idiotic perpetual war on terrorism and control of minorities. They are AIPAC handmaidens willing to create a similar society here to that of Israel - walls and security and might makes right. These charlatans reserve themselves the right to "correct" the choice of the people while they troll for email addresses. Don't fall for their feigned desire for a 'real democracy'.
As the author of this article I offer the following based on the comments already posted: The Americans Elect group and process is far from perfect, but its capacity to get its ticket on every state ballot is most impressive in view of the corrupt power of the two-party duopoly. Whether their ticket merits your vote ultimately depends on exactly what two people are voted to be on the ticket; I can imagine a number of people that would cause me to abandon the ticket and write openly urging others to do likewise. Almost any well known Democrat or Republican would turn me off. But people like Rocky Anderson (whom I had some interaction with years ago and think is terrific) and Bernie Sanders, for example, could be outstanding candidates offering all of us fed up with both major parties a decent alternative. As to not voting at all for either the Democrat or Republican ticket I discovered several years ago when I openly advocated reducing voter turnout to remove legitimacy from our delusional democracy very few people seemed to like that idea, but it is still a valid option and certainly if the Americans Elect ticket stinks, then boycotting the presidential election is meaningful. For all those strongly pessimistic about any effective way to kill the two-party duopoly and the corrupt, dysfunctional government it sustains, I have strongly advocated the need for constitutional amendments obtained through the use of the Article V convention option in the Constitution, which Congress has refused to obey; learn more at foavc.org.
It's one thing to personally choose not to vote in any given election and I can respect that especially since I've sat out more local elections than I participated in. But calling for people to boycott an election is totally foolhardy. As for "Americans Elect", can't take it seriously if Paul Ryan is being given a listing while Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson are left out. The who list of candidates are nothing but Republicans and Democrats. Doesn't make sense.
Edit: Never mind. Found Rocky's name on the list but had to go to see all candidates. Under candidates, click "View all" to see the entire list. My "bad". My point still stands that there are too many orphan listings such as Dick Cheney and John Paul Stevens. There's also no mention of Jill Stein or Stewart Alexander unless Green and Socialist parties aren't allowed.
"depends on exactly what two people are voted to be on the ticket" - come on, you all reserve the right to reject the people's choice and install your own.
"when I openly advocated reducing voter turnout" - gee that's constructive, bordering on treason. How about INCREASING voter turnout, using democracy to fix the problems of a democracy?
I’d have to check with you here. Which is not something I usually do! I enjoy reading a post that will make people think. Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!
--------
lissage bresilien
Thank you, "Status Quo Buster," for entering the forum to elaborate further. Many of us are more than disillusioned with the duopoly. I was taken aback by Joe Lieberman's name, but now that you're advocating in favor of Rocky Anderson, I'll visit the site and likely sign up. Any legitmate effort to restore accountability in high places in this phase of uber: government-big business corruption, is appreciated, and courageous! Thank you for your principled efforts.
Hi Siouxrose, I hope that before signing up, you go back to 1/30/12 and read the article about Americans Elect, with particular attention to the list of hedge fund managers financing this effort, and to the part that if the "winning" candidate is not approved by some higher power or other, he/she can be replaced with a more acceptable candidate (presumably more acceptable to those financing this scam). In what amounts to a mission statement, Americans Elect favor a "centrist" to give voters a choice (implying that Obama is too progressive? Choking with laughter at that idea). The list of names put forth as "centrist" alternatives is enough to make me run for cover. It looks like you pick one of our approved "centrists" or we'll do it for you. As far as I'm concerned, better to just vote for Rocky, even if writing him in.
Thanks for the update, Joel. Some people here bash anything, and I assume they do so because they represent the duopoly. Such is the age we live in. Peace out, bro...
Boycotting, Americans Elect, third party, etc. will all fail to get the intended result. Only a NONE OF THE ABOVE approach will work. See my comments elsewhere in this thread.
You cannot have a candidate in any real sense without a political program and organization. The cult of personality is one of the major problems with US politics. Why would we want to take that to some absurd reality TV level?
The "two party duopoly" is an effect of the political problems in the US, not a cause of those problems. You may as well suggest perfume as the solution to the problem of air pollution.
Getting ballot access means nothing in and of itself. "We opened restaurants in every state!" would not mean that anyone would necessarily want to eat there.