Get News & Views Updates
Most Popular This Week
- 37 Percent of People Completely Lost
- An Open Challenge to Michelle Rhee and the Corporate Education Zombies
- If Corporations Don’t Pay Taxes, Why Should You?
- Introduced Constitutional Amendment says: 'Democracy for People, Not Corporations'
- Which Members of Congress Are Standing Up for Economic Decency – And Which “Progressives” Aren’t
Popular content
Today's Top News
As the GOP Blames Obama for Wall Street “Mobs" the Occupy Movement Spreads Nationwide and Is No Friend of the President
Who is behind the Wall Street protests?
The Republican minority leader, Eric Cantor, has searched up and down in his usual rigorous manner and found the culprit.
In his knee-jerk view, it’s President Obama. His latest crime: encouraging these “mobs.”
photo: Francesco Fiondella
In one sentence, he blamed the President, who in GOP conspiracy think, is to blame for everything, including bad weather. He also not so subtly conjures up the memory of the Mafia, New York’s perennial bad guys.
In one phrase, Obama stood accused of encouraging these…. pause for righteous indignation -- MOBS!
Never mind that if you spend any time at Occupy Wall Street, you will encounter as many criticisms of the President’s policies -- save the questions about his birth and “real Americaness” -- as you would at a conclave of the Tea Party.
Only the criticism is different. In the latter world of make-believe, he is a hard line Socialist. In the former, he is, in effect, a Republican, a backer of the Wall Street capitalists the occupiers are battling.
And if my memory of history has not faded, wasn’t it the British who called the original Tea Party a “mob?”
Let’s not let the facts get in the way of a partisan smear.
The GOP is in trouble, unable to find a Presidential candidate they can agree on, unable to come up with any program to do anything about the country’s economic distress, and unable to erode the growing public disgust with the Congress they now control. All they can do is snarl like an attack dog.
Their blame Obama mantra may cheer their faithful, but convinces no new potential voters. The Wall Street protesters are their latest distraction, aided and abetted by the hardliners at Fox News, who wouldn’t be blasting away if the occupations weren’t successful in getting a counter narrative into the media stream.
The Occupy Wall Streeters don’t waste any time attacking politicians because they are estranged from all traditional party politics. There is danger of self-marginalization in this approach but it also reflects a certain purity of purpose.
Many in the Park fear co-optation or “capture” by Democrats. Occupy Wall Street Is not partisan but has now endorsed an October 15th Jobs march sponsored by the AFL-CIO. Richard Trumka, the president of the labor federation, visited Zuccotti Park and won their support. That nationwide action will be endorsing Obama’s compromised Jobs bill.
This does not mean that the protest will align with the Obamacrats. Al Jazeera spoke with Katie Davison, one of the activists who explained their way of looking at the world:
“A candidate is sort of the old way of doing things," she said. "We're looking for a new way of doing things that is more participatory and more meaningful. What that looks like we're still figuring out."
David Graeber, anthropologist, writer and protest organizer, told Al Jazeera why he thinks young people in the US have reached an especially frustrating point:
"In making a demand, you're essentially recognizing the authority of the people who are going to carry it out," he said.
"Our message is that the system that we have is broken. It doesn't work. People aren't even discussing the real problems Americans face."
So far, Wall Street firms have not commented on the protests but their condescension and arrogance is clear to anyone at the Park when employees at the big firms on “The Street” drop in at lunchtime as if they are going to a Zoo. (Police block the protesters from marching on Wall Street.)
Even as this movement swells nationally to over 1,000 cities, and even internationally, the media picks away at it with a combination of sarcasm leavened with growing respect. New York Times op-ed columnists and even the editorialists have been increasingly positive.
So far, the movement has not tried to directly impact on policy even though its marches are driven by signs and chants mounting a frontal assault on economic inequality, wars, phony bailouts, and the many ways they say the “1%” oppresses the 99%.
Simplistic or not this view has built a hard charging movement with its own newspaper, and scores of work groups and committees that provide opportunities for individuals to get involved in the nitty-gritty effort at building their structures and running a complicated but democratic community within a larger society dominated by top-down politics.
The energy and idealism is evident to anyone with the patience to look.
Not everyone has that patience. As some kind of fortune would have it, I sat next to a talkative Wall Street veteran at a dinner Saturday night to break the fast of the Jewish Yom Kippur New Year.
From his life behind a terminal, selling financial products, or, in his words, “making up stories that his customers like to hear,” the protests are a world away, unlikely to stop his life’s work of endlessly making money from money.
His view on the surface was upbeat. This past week marked, in his view, the end of Europe’s banking crisis. (He works for a company owned by two French banks.) He seemed to be gloating about a new TARP style bailout there that would fix everything.
For him life is about the “spreads” between what you buy and what you sell.
To him, the TARP bailout “saved the United States of America.” He backed McCain in the last election but praised Obama for backing it.
He blames Democrats like former House Finance chairman Henry Gonzalez and Barney Frank (who he acknowledges were and are sincere), for screwing up the financial system.
He blames the government for demanding that mortgages be affordable and sold on a non-discriminatory basis. When pressed, he admitted there had been predatory and racist lending practices in the past, and that the subprime mortgages were a disaster.
But the more he talked, the more it was clear that his real anger is reserved for Wall Street’s bosses, the people who run the firms and are, in his view, totally corrupt.
He was one of those who lost his pensions and shares when Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns when down. He was wiped out and had nothing good to say about the people at the top.
Curiously, he was as angry with these men in the suits as are the folks in the streets. He was just as alienated although he’s not about to turn on capitalism and instead sniped at a retired schoolteacher at the dinner for having a good pension that he now lacks. His resentment, insensitivity and sense of class entitlement were insufferable.
Yet, even though he works for a leading financial firm, he saw himself as a victim too -- in effect, a 99 per-center.
Where will he stand in the emerging “Mob War” when the “Occupy” Family confronts the Goldman Sachs “Family”?
As the financial crisis intensifies our social crisis, stranger bedfellows will emerge.
- Posted in
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...
100 Comments so far
Show AllSomeone needs to sum up this article in a simple sign to carry at a protest: "OBAMA - YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!" Enough of those will totally undercut the myths the right is trying to put out, and further the real message that this cuts across all labels.
Excellent idea.
I found this article interesting. I've been wondering if the OWS were fans of Obama or if they saw through him. It's encouraging to know that they're smarter than the average bear.
Oilgarchy for Oilybomber------ We are US!
Good article but please do not promote the "Mob" scenario or I will have my cousins "The Zingaros" "speak" to You!
Huh? How is your response a response to my post?
Oilybomber is Obama as in your post and the rest refers to the above article.
Good point, Kane Jeeves.
Obama thought he could screw his voting base without repercussions. It's coming around to bite him in the ass, it serves him right, and the best hope we have right now is if he falls flat on his face and loses next year's POTUS Election...bigtime.
So *who* from the GOP would you like to replace him?
Rick "Goodhair" Perry? Herman "Uncle Tom" Cain?
What needs to happen is for progressives to attend their county political parties and ask the candidates the hard questions needed to insure they're for the *country* and NOT for the Koch machine and the multinationals!
If you *don't* get in there and start reforming politics, you're *still* part of the problem!
Do you realize that your Democratic Party boosting is the exact opposite of waht #Occupy is all about?
We need to abolish the house and the senate. Create a new political structure that lets the people propose and vote on legislation via their I-phones or computers. We don't need legislative structures from the 1700s anymore. Time to change the world. Direct demos for all. And all corporations should become co-ops. The banks should be disbanded and all loans come straight from treasury. The FED should also be abolished. We don't need capitalists anymore.
The current Republic is an obsolete form that allows plutocrats to buy legislators. This must be abolished. We need a new vision and a new constitution. The old voting system doesn't work anymore. We should all cast lots like in the greek polis.
PLease, no electronic (Black Box) voting two presidential elections were stolen that way, not that paper ballot elections cannot be stolen (Kennedy, Chicago), but paper is alot easier to monitor. Also some citizens do not have Birth Certificates nevermind Phones or computers.
Agreed. Electronic voting is a sitting duck for abuse. Keep the paper. It can't be unplugged or turned off or zapped – at least most of the time.
I heard rumors that Anonymous may hack an Election to prove how dangerrous and easly hackable these machines are.
Wouldn't that be something to have Anonymous hack an election and throw it to the progressive or green party.
Think the powers that be would admit that the machines are dnagerous at that point?
And if that happens, you may rely on the authorities, e.g. the so-called Department of Justice and other law enforcement and state security agencies, taking a full-bore "fusion" approach to tracking down, busting, and prosecuting the perpetrators to the fullest extent of the law.
You know, the approach they reserve for Enemies of the State like Tim DeChristopher, Lynne Stewart, et al.
Hell, they might even use drone missles just to save a lot of unnecessary time and trouble.
There would be no complicit, complacent token investigations or special-commission whitewashes to bury suspicion and outrage in a shroud of hypocritical propaganda.
And the "fraudulent election" would be nullified forthwith, of course. After all, mustn't call all of the OTHER fraudulent elections into question!
True, but the really scary thing is that we'd probably never find out the elections had been hacked in the first place. At the first sign that the voting results were unfavorable to the oligarchy, every last tool of the media and security apparatus would be employed to ensure that results favorable to the oligarchy were reported. One's only hope would be that they did so incompetently.
The fact that US government structure was set up in the 18th century is not the problem. The corruption of politicians is the problem. I defy anyone to set up a form of democratic government that will work when almost all office holders are beholden to wealthy contributors. If you have to run for office and if use of television is allowed in campaigning, the candidates that get the most campaign contributions will win. Do you see a way around that?
Completely change the way campaigns are run: they can't even begin until 6 months prior to the election; NO corporate money - only public funding; free and limited numbers of TV ads - no 527s; all primaries for both parties held in every state on the same day. No electronic ballots. There are ways to drastically improve our system. And congress used to be a part time job - they supported themselves and their families with real jobs outside of government. That is one thing I'd like to "take our country back" to.
Thanks for your comments, Witchy Woman. Most every commentator here shares your ideas, and they are more mainstream than many realize.
.
I do not ♥ Big Brother!
- - - - -
Indiaboy1 wrote:
Indiaboy1,
We need to abolish the house and the senate. Create a new political structure that lets the people propose and vote on legislation via their I-phones or computers. We don't need legislative structures from the 1700s anymore. Time to change the world. Direct demos for all. And all corporations should become co-ops. The banks should be disbanded and all loans come straight from treasury. The FED should also be abolished. We don't need capitalists anymore.
The current Republic is an obsolete form that allows plutocrats to buy legislators. This must be abolished. We need a new vision and a new constitution. The old voting system doesn't work anymore. We should all cast lots like in the greek polis.
* * * * * *
My Reply:
No offense intended to the person who posts comments here on Common Dreams using the pseudonyms "i ♥ BigBrother" with clearly intended sarcasm.
I certainly agree with other commentators here regarding paperless electronic voting of any kind; but internet voting along with any other kind of voting that is mediated by massive corporate or government controlled communication systems have additional serious problems. I also agree that capitalism needs to be abolished.
Sometime in early 2005 I sent the following letter to the editor of The Nation in response to a December 20, 2004 article by James K. Galbraith titled “Abolish Election Day”. The letter was edited by The Nation, presumably for length, although I generally check the guidelines for writing such letters and undoubtedly would have attempted compliance, since I wanted to get the letter published. A reference to Joseph Stalin’s statement about voting and who counts the vote and related text was removed from my letter, but otherwise what appears below is exactly what I said.
Beyond that, while I do think that adding direct democracy at the national level in the form of referendums and initiatives is a good idea; I also realize that direct democracy has its own limitations and problems, as anyone who has carefully thought about their own experiences and the experiences of others with direct democracy, whether through referendums and initiatives or through town meetings, surely understands.
The United States Constition in not perfect and should be amended in a number of ways. Also, among other things Plurality Voting should be replaced with a consent / dissent grading scale based voting procedure. such as Yes No 'Maybe So' Voting or Category Scale Power Voting. Legislation is also needed that will provide the legal arguments for overturning the Buckley v. Valeo and Citizens United v. FEC U.S. Supreme Court decisions. Simply ratifying an Constitutional amendment stating that corporations do not have the same constitutional rights of natural individual people will not be enough to democratize everything from political parties to independent election campaign expenditures and the news media.
.
Stalin Quote:
“It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”
Joseph Stalin (1879-1953)
.
Letter to the Editor of The Nation:
'ABOLISH ELECTION DAY,'
by James K. Galbraith
[Letter to The Editor]
Belmont, MA
James K. Galbraith proposes the universal adoption of vote-by-mail legislation, which would eliminate election day and local polling places. In his rush to fix problems associated with exit polls, heavy voter turnout, reporting of partial vote counts and poorly designed voting machines, Galbraith has apparently forgotten that a transparent guarantee of a secret ballot can only be given and received in person at a polling place.
Online voting, provisional voting and voting by mail (including the casting of absentee ballots) cannot provide a transparent guarantee of a secret ballot. In order to preserve the one-person, one-vote principle, the personal identity of each voter must be connected in some way with the actual casting of an election ballot. With online voting, provisional voting and voting by mail systems--no matter what the design--voters have no way to actually verify for themselves that their ballot has been kept secret. Instead, they must simply rely on the assurances of election officials.
When voters cast their ballots at local polling places, however, voters can see for themselves that the connection between their personal identity and their ballot is discarded as they cast their vote. In this case, the guarantee of a secret ballot, which is given and received in person at a polling place, is clear for all to see.
The transparent guarantee of a secret ballot is an important part of assuring fair and democratic elections. Americans should, therefore, be encouraged to vote in person. Election day should be made a national holiday. Adequate numbers of voting machines should be provided. Absentee ballots and provisional ballots should be available only for voters who need them. We should not so quickly discard the transparent guarantee of a secret ballot provided to us at our local polling places by universally mandating that all votes must be cast by mail.
PETER K. HARRELL
This article appeared in the December 20, 2004 edition of The Nation.
.
Letter to the Editor URL: www.thenation.com/article/voting-mail-arafat-and-derrida
Abolish Election Day URL: www.thenation.com/article/abolish-election-day
Love this! Agree!
The folks who profited by creating our current mess are the government, the media, and corporations in no particular order. They continue to benefit from maintaining the status quo.
The folks in the Tea Party and the folks in the Occupy Wall St. movement have figured out that they have been the losers in a zero sum game. If the two groups would listen to each other, they would discover that they share the same discontent, grievances and in some cases even proposals for solutions.
But the politicians benefit from maintaining a partisan divide. The media thrive on conflict. And the corporations just want us to be compliant workers and consumers.
This is no more obvious than in the behavior of partisan media outlets like MSNBC and Fox News. Think about how each portrayed the rise of the Tea Party and how they now react to the Occupy Wall St. movement. In both cases, what they praise in one group, they deplore in the other.
If the Tea Party and Occupy Wall St. folks ignore the politicians and media and reach out to each other we might actually be able to bring about change for the better. Allowing the people who ran the car into the ditch to keep driving just won't work.
Right on. See my sign idea earlier. It would jolt Tea Partiers out of their Fox instilled stupor.
Not only did they run the car into the ditch they are still sitting in it with the engine revving, throwing oil, the rods knocking, the tires spinning and burning. Still drinking the intoxicant named "Greed".
Michaelps approach refreshingly fair and balanced!
michaelps, yes, if the Tea Party and Occupy both truly understand and hate Empire, then there could be a common core enemy to their love of democratic self-government over violent Empire.
BTW, just to reinforce Danny's real knowledge of American history, when he says wasn't it, "the British who called the original Tea Party a 'mob?'".
I would most strongly remind Danny that it was not the majority of the British people, peasants, workers, who "called the original Tea Party a 'mob?'" --- It was the friggin British EMPIRE, Danny!!.
With all due respect, Danny, it is EMPIRE that is the core of the cancer.
It was merely Britain where one generation of the EMPIRE existed at one point in time.
Earlier EMPIRE took over the Roman Republic and killed Christ when he confronted EMPIRE with love, rather than the sword of a messianic battle King that many expected.
Later it was EMPIRE that took over Germany and tried to become a wannabe global EMPIRE, but thankfully failed in an unfortunately violent confrontation that left about 100 million dead, before the tiniest minority of sociopathic "Empire-thinkers" got scared and did away with themselves in a bunker.
But NOW, Danny, if the Occupy movement, qua rebellion, revolution of non-violent confrontation focuses on the 21st century's post-nation-state global corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE as the underlying cancerous core of all the protestors' issues and demands, then maybe, just maybe "The Coming Insurrection" [Negri] "Against Empire" [Parenti] will peacefully revert to the first century's good luck with love confronting this "Empire of Illusion" [Hedges] and reverse "Why America Failed" [Berman] before it's too late for our children and children's children.
best luck and love to Occupy,
Alan
Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire
Obviously his dinner wasn't with Andre, I couldn't dine with such a selfish person.
awesome, I think Danny was also trying to feel out how this Occupy movement (qua rebellion, revolution, confrontation) might work-out.
His concluding monolog seemed to express a concern about the means of such a confrontation, particularly when he references "family" confronting "family".
My advice to Danny, and others, would be don't worry --- this Occupy 99% seem to be firmly committed to 'confronting' the Empire that oppresses us all in many ways, by working though non-violent means that hopefully will reflect an older way of confronting Empire by something we have not seen in centuries --- even two millennia!
I have always thought that from the humanist and empathetic 'democracy thinking' of the majority of American (and the world's) citizens, that it's hard to imagine, in this very modern 21st century, that we are still looking toward the end of the last of tribal, nationalist, economic, or class-based 'empire-thinking'.
We are a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-racial, even post-racial, sectarian, mixing-pot-world of desired democracies on a small fragile planet --- and yet, we are still not beyond the danger of existential death at the hands of ancient and irrelevant tribal 'empire-thinking'.
As only Kurt Vonnegut's sense of ironic black humor might envision, "It is as if the whole human race was about to sit down to a celebratory picnic for successfully reaching our 21st century, when we are all unexpectedly killed by one remaining giant dinosaur."
The vast majority of people in the world don't want to live in a world of Empires, based on how they have been abused by various nationalist and other modern "-ism" Empires.
Fighter pilots have a saying that, "speed is life". But, for all the rest of us, "inclusiveness is life" --- and tribalism is death by the oldest lie of empire.
Racism is another deadly old lie of empire, as is aggressively fundamentalist religion.
Nationalism is a somewhat newer lie of empire, proving particularly deadly in the 20th century.
While, economic ideology is the newest, and current, lie of empire (which is causing our economic and environmental collapse).
But all the lies and deceptions of "empire-thinking" lead ineluctably to the very same grave --- so choose your empire poison, stupidly. Or choose your inclusiveness, wisely.
And I have confidence that the Occupy movement's 99% have already chosen their inclusiveness and non-violence wisely for the coming peaceful confrontation.
Best,
Alan
Liberty & democracy
over
violent/Vichy
empire
"Occupy Wall Street Is not partisan but has now endorsed an October 15th Jobs march sponsored by the AFL-CIO. Richard Trumka, the president of the labor federation, visited Zuccotti Park and won their support. That nationwide action will be endorsing Obama’s compromised Jobs bill."
Trumka, like Obama, is a good speaker. Trumka is also a loyal Obama follower.
Asked if Obama is a friend or an acquaintance, Trumka said, “He’s a friend. There’s a lot of things we disagree with him on. There’s far more things that we agree with him on.”
What would "those things that we agree with him on" be, Richard Trumka?
"Obama’s support for free-trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia and Panama has disappointed his union supporters, Trumka said."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-01/union-enthusiasm-for-obama-re-election-fades-afl-cio-s-chief-trumka-says.html
Over 150,000 good jobs will be gone. Trumka said the union members were "disappointed." Not enraged. Not make them vow to never vote for Obama again. Just "disappointed."
Don't trust Trumka. He'll turn this into a Democratic rally faster than you can say "Wisconsin."
Yeah, this is a bad sign. Dealing with the devil ...
Trumka has expressed serious doubt about the Democratic Party and is shifting large amonts of funds away from campaign contributions and towards union building.
Trumka and the AFL-CIO have been battling corporate America for decades.
Trumka was not asking to lead OWS. He was offering his support and asking for help getting a jobs bill passed. Kind of ho hum, but still an important step for lots of unemployed people.
If Trumka is smart, he'll push to double the jobs bill! And it just might pass, if things continue to heat up.
Finally Trumka is a deal maker. I wonder what he's giving OWS in exchange for support on the jobs bill?
It was a Republican that pushed through the union busting laws in WI. The unoins don't Obama anymore, but the Republicans scare the shit out of most union leaders.
Richard Trumka is not independent, he is a tool of the Democratic Party. Do not allow the movement to be co-opted by anything that smacks of the Democratic Party or Republican Party. Remember, Trumka's unions support the building of the tar sands pipeline. It's best to stay away from official union support. If individual union members want to unofficially participate that is ok. This is a decentralized movement so avoid the support of centralized organizations like unions or political parties.
This is the Ultimate "Big Umbrella Movement" the trick is to coopt everyone especially Police and Military and Fascist enforncers as Blackwater, without endorsing them. -------- So accept and encourage everyone's support but never support business as usual, AKA Democrats or Corrupt( as oppossed to socialist or noncorrupt) Union leaders
Well said, glenn.
If the Big Umbrella's growth continues, it could exceed the the Dims in size. At that point it will require a formal political organization to oppose the Rs and Ds and replace these corrupt congress critters with the people's representatives.
Under the current structure there is NO legtimate voting on the Federal level. Only after a massive restructing of the current laws and policies may there be anything approaching legitimate elections.
Again I agree with you, but what alternative do we have, other than a third party effort, given that the massive restructuring will not happen while the duopoly rules?
The alternatives are now being imagined by the Occupy movement. Following traditional pathways to confront the corrupt system head on is useless and a waste of time and resources. Imagine better or get out of the way.
The Unions point out the EXACT reason why OWS so far is a leaderless movement. Once you have a Leader then TPTB know exactly whom to buy off -
See UNIONS.
mtdon, buy off - or assassinate. Whatever it takes.
I can appreciate your desire to keep the OWS movement pure, Stone, but I think we cannot afford to be too exclusive.
We are trying to attract as many of the discontented as possible without compromising the movement's principles.
Acceptable supporters should include unions, people's parties, single-issue groups, individuals, birds of the air, beasts of the field and every other creature (except cockroaches) that does not support R or D candidates.
Trumka has some very serious differences with the Dims, and unless and until he officially places the AFL-CIO behind them, there is no reason why OWS should not welcome his support.
If the movement keeps growing at the rate it has been, Trumka and his people might decide that there is a better place for AFL-CIO support than the Democrats.
Hey Port Lookout, it's fundamental and important to understand the architecture of change. DECENTRALIZATION is the architecture. Every participant is a leader; but, not CENTRALIZED organizations like unions etc. Centralized control is the 20th Century model, not the current OCCUPY 21st Century model. The individual members are welcome but not the centralized organization (union etc.). The support of CENTRALIZED organizations such as political parties, pacs, unions, etc. are unneeded and unwelcome. If accepted ultimately they will dominate and corrupt the movement. DO NOT SEEK ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPORT, ONLY THE SUPPORT OF INDIVIDUALS. That is the KEY to success. That MUST be the guiding principle.
Regarding Trumka, he's gone soft and been co-opted by the Dem's. He failed to call for a general stirke in Wisconsin and as a result the people there lost the battle. He know's that he sold out, just like the Congress. We do not need or seek any of them. The OCCUPY movement is much more social and profound than simple politics. THE FUTURE IS BEING REINVENTED ABSENT WASHINGTON. The movement transcends Washington and Wall Street. Young people are redefining their future in individually inclusive ways that will define a new living paradigm that reflects their values and their needs. They are up to the task and have sufficient intellect and idealism to drive change. They openly communicate in all directions to form their fluid living visions. CENTRALIZATION nor CENTRALIZED ORGANIZATIONS have NO place in the OCCUPY MOVEMENT.
Good Stone! But please allow others to defect en mass under their own banner to join Occupy USA!
Right, glenn.
And Stone, please understand that I advocate group PARTICIPATION in, not group CONTROL of, the movement.
If the movement, sometime in the future, should grow to the size that it feels it can contest the Ds in elections, it will require a party to represent it, at which point the movement might approach a worthy party for representation.
I agree that any party, union or other group that tries to usurp the movement for its own purposes should be shown the door.
Port, I'm not sure that your getting it yet. It is ONLY through individual participation in OCW that decentralized action is assured. Groups are centralized entities. Centralized entities will ruin OCW. Groups have NO place in a successful decentralized movement, only individuals do. 20th Century thinking will kill the goose. Mine is not purist thinking, it is rational thinking. If one insists on participating as a group then their motivations must be called into question.
"...it is rational thinking"
stone,
i wholeheartedly agree, this movement should not relinquish it's thoughts, agenda or identity - to other groups, who certainly are trying to exploit the populist uprisings for their own political agendas. you very patiently and articulated this critical point. thank you.
...peace...
Your thinking is based in the fallacy of "proof by assertion", i.e. it's true because I say it is.
You offer no evidence for your claim that unions represent "old thinking" nor for your claim that OWS de-centralization is some kind of novel, 21st century miracle.
Essentially you are enaging in magical thinking.
And *this* is the problem I have with Libertarian-style groups like the Occupy movement.
You *need* leaders to control the situation in the event things get out of hand, like what happened in DC with the infiltrator from one of the right wing media, as moronic as that guy was!
All it's going to take are a few hundred to a few thousand Kock-suckers to insinuate themselves, get a *true* mob mentality going, start destroying things like what happened at the Seattle meeting of the WTO a few years back, and the Occupy movement's permanently destroyed.
The right-wing and mainstream media (which is controlled by multinationals as we all know, not to mention Murdoch's empire!) will spread those images and video all around the world, repeated over and over, and there goes any chance of reform.
"The right-wing and mainstream media (which is controlled by multinationals as we all know, not to mention Murdoch's empire!) will spread those images and video all around the world, repeated over and over, and there goes any chance of reform.
- - they already are doing this and the demos are peaceful, they will do this anyway cause that is their mission (dept of propaganda).
"You *need* leaders to control the situation in the event things get out of hand, like what happened in DC with the infiltrator from one of the right wing media, as moronic as that guy was!"
- - wrong, you need trained peacekeepers who collectively know how to handle such a situation (from planning) and education, so that the demonstrators themselves can deal w/ the situations on a case by case matter as they arise. i think you're underestimating the power of the people and their ability to call a spade a spade.
"All it's going to take are a few hundred to a few thousand Kock-suckers to insinuate themselves, get a *true* mob mentality going, start destroying things like what happened at the Seattle meeting of the WTO a few years back, and the Occupy movement's permanently destroyed."
- - is that what happened in seattle ? as i recall the goal of the wto in seattle was achieved, the issues were tabled and the conference was shut down.
it's a bit presumptuous to assume that if a riot happened (not encouraging or discouraging the thought, just a hypothetical) many americans will not see through the fog of msm, and understand that (like seattle) it is the police that instigate the violence (start the riots) not those 'koch' (brothers) suckers or crazy idealistic 'anarchists collectives'. we live in the country most responsible for state sanctioned violence on it's own people and abroad - funny liberals are afraid of leaderless protesters exercising their first amendment rights.
groups that are top down authoritarian are easier to infiltrate. it's easier to payoff a few 'leaders' - more difficult to reprogram 100's or 1000's of people meeting at a general assembly with the same power of speech (one voice).
the people united will never be defeated
¡Ya basta!
...peace...
Stone (in reply to Port Lookout) in part wrote:
Hey Port Lookout, it's fundamental and important to understand the architecture of change. DECENTRALIZATION is the architecture. Every participant is a leader; but, not CENTRALIZED organizations like unions etc. Centralized control is the 20th Century model, not the current OCCUPY 21st Century model. The individual members are welcome but not the centralized organization (union etc.). The support of CENTRALIZED organizations such as political parties, pacs, unions, etc. are unneeded and unwelcome. If accepted ultimately they will dominate and corrupt the movement. DO NOT SEEK ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPORT, ONLY THE SUPPORT OF INDIVIDUALS. That is the KEY to success. That MUST be the guiding principle.
Regarding Trumka, he's gone soft and been co-opted by the Dem's. He failed to call for a general stirke in Wisconsin and as a result the people there lost the battle.
* * * * *
My Reply:
Stone,
Centralized control is not simply the 20th Century model; but has been the dominant, most powerful means of control (i.e. "model") considerably longer than twenty centuries.
Decentralized control is not simply the 21st Century model, but has been a useful if not always triumphant means of control (i.e. "model") employed by those resisting centralized control and engaged in revolution for perhaps an equally long period of time.
The idea that the decentralized #Occupy "model" is the model of the future, which is not only going to topple those people who employ centralized control, but also establish a durable alternative amidst forms of power that lend themselves to imposing centralized control, and will do so without engaging in alliances with more centralized organizations is ridiculous, absent a collapse of centralized power due to its own systemic weakness and contradictions.
That is not to say that #Occupy should give up its more anarchic, decentralized approach to revolution. Rather people participating in #Occupy should carefully and wisely consider temporary support for the efforts of, and possibly cooperation or even informal temporary alliances with, more centralized organizations such as labor unions and third parties. Also people participating in #Occupy should consider what they as individuals and together as a fluid group (given who is present at any given moment) actually want to come after the revolution in the unlikely event that revolution manages to achieve anything like fundamental regime change or regime destruction, rather than simply changes in which surrogates of what faction of the ruling elite occupy what positions of control in the government, or even worse little more than relatively minor changes in government policy, or even worse than that merely superficial changes in election campaign rhetoric.
Such discussion and reflection might be expected at times to lead to nothing more "dangerous" than some loosely focused collective action, that embraces something similar to what is often called parallel play when describing the behavior of young children, where people basically do their own thing, expressing their own opinions, together with other similarly inspired people with whom they feel comfortable and compatible, but in the context of some more of less commonly shared focus.
I agree that the #Occupy movement "transcends Washington and Wall Street."
I certainly hope that both young people and old people can effectively and succesfully redefine "[our] future in individually inclusive ways that will define a new living paradigm that reflects [our] values and [our] needs." There are plenty of old people who have been trying to do this very thing long before #OccupyWallStreet occupied Zuccotti Park and hit the streets. What is more this is necessary for our survival.
I expect that whatever emerges from that process will involve considerable decentralization in a variety of ways, but no more decentralization at any given time than permits the control of the power of those who choose to oppress us.
Cooperating with more centralized organizations toward common ends and even entering into informal alliances is not the same thing as accepting material, operational, and logistical support for #Occupy occupations from organizations, in contrast to limiting acceptance of that kind of support simply to individuals. That is the critical difference that must be maintained to avoid cooptation.
What's more, I disagree with you about Wisconsin. The truth is that the battle in Wisconsin is not over yet.
.
Pay US Back, Stop the Foreclosure Mill, Enact a Financial Transactions Tax
.
Excerpt from “Chicago to Wall Street: Pay US Back!” by Mary Bottari, PR Watch, re-published by Common Dreams, October 12, 201:
While the Occupy Wall Street movement is sweeping the country and peaceful arrests are mounting, Chicagoans took to the streets this week to hold the big banks accountable for crashing the economy and to demand city, state and federal policies that work for working families.
For many, the goal was stopping the foreclosure mill and telling the big banks it was time to Pay US Back! for the $4.7 trillion bailout. For others, the demands focused on the bailout from the financial crisis including contentious contract negotiations with the administration of Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
Article URL: www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/12-5
- - - - - -
Excerpt from “Chicago to Wall Street: Pay US Back!” by Mary Bottari, PR Watch, re-published by Common Dreams, October 12, 201:
On Monday, 10,000 Chicagoans marched in the streets to tell [Rahm] Emanuel and his friends on Wall Street that enough is enough. Under the rubrik of “Take back Chicago,” community, labor and faith groups rallied for jobs, homes and schools. Occupy Chicago voted to endorse the march and were smart to target the big money at a futures trading conference.
While a banner fluttered off the Michigan Bridge declaring “Wall Street: Steals from the 99% to Give to the Rich. Let's Take it Back!" a merry band of protesters from National People's Action dressed as Robin Hood kayaked up the Chicago River chanting “We are the 99%!” within earshot of the annual meeting Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA). The MBA represents the big banks that created the housing bubble, crashed the economy and are now working hard to speed every foreclosure.
Article URL: www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/12-5
- - - - - -
Excerpt from “Chicago to Wall Street: Pay US Back!” by Mary Bottari, PR Watch, re-published by Common Dreams, October 12, 201:
The folks in Chicago are kicking it up a notch. But they are not just complaining, they are also laying down some concrete plans on how to create jobs and rebuild our economy.
The Chicago Political Economy Group (CPEG) released a plan to create 40,000 jobs in the Chicago area. The jobs plan is funded by a tiny $.25 speculation fee, to be paid by every buyer and seller of derivatives contracts on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and the Chicago Board Options Exchange. The group estimates that the tiny tax will generate nearly $1.4 billion per year in direct funding for jobs.
Similarly, a growing list of groups is campaigning for the United States reinstate a financial transaction tax on Wall Street trading. A diverse array of groups including, the Rebuild the American Dream Movement, Americans for Financial Reform, AFL-CIO, SEIU, the National Nurses Union, and the New Bottom Line Coalition (over 1,000 faith and housing groups) are throwing their weight behind the idea of a federal financial transaction tax to force Wall Street to help pay for the damage it has done to the economy. Such a tax would raise an estimated $176 billion in revenue.
Internationally the issue is rapidly gaining traction, with the EU proposing a 10 cent per $100 dollars in stock trades and the G-20 set to take up the issue in November.
Article URL: www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10/12-5
- - - - -
Excerpt from "A Primer on Class Struggle" by Michael Schwalbe, Common Dreams, March 13, 2011.
"The most important arena outside the workplace is government, because it’s here that the rules of the game are made, interpreted, and enforced. When we look at how capitalists try to use government to protect and advance their interests -- and at how other groups resist -- we are looking at class struggle."
Article URL: www.commondreams.org/view/2011/03/31-4
* * * * *
My Comment:
Take back what we can get! Get what we can take back!
Then continue the struggle to take control of the government, establish genuine democracy in the United Statess, and end capitalism!
I agree. The Unions are top down affairs in this country for the most part. They should stay away from them, even though they look like natural allies, They're not.
Clearly you do not understand the term "ally."
Unions are the only organizations in the US that can even begin to make the claim of being of, by and for the working class. Unionists have been battered, arrested, tortured and killed by the capitalist class. There are some corrupt unions, but union ideals are essential to social change.
Is the working class a "natural ally" of OWS?
Finally are you a libertarian or just anti-union on class principle?