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Losing Hope in Obama and the Prospect of a Humane World
Cleaning up my desk this week I found an Obama ‘08 HOPE button. After a moment’s reflection, I threw it in the trash.
Not because Obama lied or betrayed those of us who hope for a more humane world, although he did both.
I recognize that lies and misrepresentations are basic tools of information management in our socially-structured, media-mediated world. We all use them to manage information in pursuit of our interests, and I see no moral utility in categorically condemning lying, disinformation or persuasion. Advertising – commercial lying -- is an accepted, if not altogether honorable, industry in our society. And the effectiveness of our news media and entertainment depend on tweaking what information is used and how it is presented.
However, the political sphere, where scarce resources are allocated, risky and expensive actions like wars or nuclear power plants are undertaken, and where the public good is defined, is another matter. If the use of tools of information management is concealed, if the interests they serve remain undisclosed, or if their use can be bought with money, democracy will be compromised and individual freedom and integrity as well as social cohesion will be threatened. When we lie to one another we betray basic social bonds that make it possible to live together and fairly share risks, resources and rewards.
Obama also betrayed us, albeit with our consent. He – and we – believed he could successfully lead changes we envisioned by managing the machinery of politics and the engines of economics. We – and he – imagined that we are one nation, with common values, goals and purposes. We fancied we had honest media, a shared morality, democratic processes, and an engaged, well-informed and discerning electorate. Oblivious of the pervasiveness and inertia of the scripts of war, evil, racism, religion and vengeance, and the myths of markets and motivations that dominate our language, discourse, news media and entertainment, we expected Obama to just push buttons, pull levers, sweep out trivia, clarify issues and generally crown our good with brotherhood ... undimmed by human tears ... in the land of the free and the home of the brave ...patriot dreams that see beyond the years...
Crown our good with brotherhood?
We’ve witnessed our neighbors cheering that an uninsured man deserves to die, asserting that teachers are only in it for the money, that God hates fags, that the poor are lazy, and that justice demands the death penalty but forbids abortion in all circumstances.
.... undimmed by human tears?
We keep our poor, homeless, hungry, jobless neighbors and uninsured sick largely invisible and humiliate them to make sure they are ashamed of their tears and get little comfort from the community.
...land of the free?
Our Constitutional rights and civil liberties have been cancelled or abridged with targeted assassinations, with torture, no-fly lists, secret surveillance of our communications, and now, corporate- designed state legislation to limit collective bargaining, suppress voting and gerrymander legislative districts.
...and the home of the brave?
We’re so brave that on 9/11/11 three people with dusky skins were taken off a plane, jailed and strip-searched by men armed with machine guns. We’re so brave we used a drone to murder Anwar al-Awlaki, a disaffected American citizen who had no discernible influence in the Arab world, was not charged with any crime, but who spoke insurrection in fluent idiomatic English. We’re so brave we cut taxes for the rich and services to the poor.
"...patriot dreams that see beyond the years..." Our politicians’ patriot dreams are of staying in office through the exploitation of resource-rich, poverty-ridden, over-populated areas of the world. Our corporations dream patriotically of endless growth, with future profits from fossil fuels, cheap labor in developing countries, and off-shore tax havens.
All our patriot dreams ignore the reality that when resources are plentiful we can have luxuries like "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." We forget that when populations are low we can afford peace, cooperation, equality, empathy, mutual respect and trust, and fail to notice that when too many people are competing for scarce resources – water, food, farmland, fisheries, forests, fossil fuels – we have competition, violence and wars.
But the present challenge is not social, political disintegration, nor even endless, costly wars.
It is our unsustainable mining of fossil carbon while trying for continuing economic growth for the wealthy and unchecked population growth for homo sapiens. We are already beyond repairing the systems that control the temperature of our planet, and are inexorably headed toward disintegration.
I threw away the Obama button because I’ve lost hope. It’s too late: our present structures, beliefs and habits are driving us toward extinction. Our information structures and media based on lies and misrepresentations have left us cynical, mistrustful and divided. Our beliefs in various magics – markets, powerful leaders, high-tech wizardry – have made us arrogant, and our assumptions of moral, rational and logical superiority have powered our imperialistic wars and meddling in the affairs of other peoples. Our habits of blaming or devaluing others allow us to scorn and punish those we deem worthless and deny them life, liberty and justice, education, healthy environment, equality of opportunity.
When I wrote about these issues six years ago ("Failed Democracy's Challenges Continue" CommonDreams.org July 31, 2005 http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0731-20.htm ) I concluded that although I doubted humans were clever enough to manage our own cleverness, I still hoped that ordinary people might rise up courageously and make a difference.
Today I have a slim hope that the #occupy movement, or local efforts at sustainable communities might enable us to manage our future.
But I'm not wearing any buttons.
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107 Comments so far
Show All"I recognize that lies and misrepresentations are basic tools of information management in our socially-structured, media-mediated world. We all use them to manage information in pursuit of our interests, and I see no moral utility in categorically condemning lying, disinformation or persuasion."
With all respect, I would vehemently disagree, and suggest that the "acceptance" of dishonesty is the root of the problem.
Madame,we do NOT "all" use lies and misrepresentation. Some of us persuade using the facts, at least insofar as we are able to determine what they are, and hope that Truth is the strongest possible persuasive argument.
If what you suggest were true, it would indeed, be the height of hypocrisy for a bunch of liars to criticize Mr. Obama for lying. If you're willing to use lies and misrepresentation in order to further your interests, don't be surprised when someone else does the same thing; you created the very world in which lying became a virtue.
Fortunately, "all" people aren't liars. I personally know at least a few who are not. I hope I'm not.
But they say that people eventually get the government they deserve. So maybe you're right. Maybe Americans are (with too few exceptions to matter) all liars. And so they get a government that lies to them.
Fair is fair.
sj
Minding its own business, a tiny bug walks across a leaf, a leaf that is growing from a thin brown twig at the extremity of a tree. On the leaf is a brown twig to which the bug pays no attention - why should it? SLURP !!! The =twig= eats the bug. It is actually a larger bug.
Nature deceives to assure the obtaining by one creature of the adenine, cytosine, guanine & thymine of which another creature is composed. We call this Eating.
Save a nation. Wear a disguise. Eat a strolling Congressperson.
Trylon
I nearly fell off my chair when I read “… I see no moral utility in categorically condemning lying, disinformation or persuasion. Advertising – commercial lying -- is an accepted, if not altogether honorable, industry in our society. And the effectiveness of our news media and entertainment depend on tweaking what information is used and how it is presented.”
Then she goes on to say that lying in politics is quite another matter! I’m a bit aghast that a woman of Arnold’s age and experience could say such a thing. Has she never heard of public relations? Doesn’t she realize that “commercial lying” encompassing everything from entertainment to news media to advertising, is THE primary political vehicle? Where does she think this country gets its political views, from the politicians? Oh my. Note to Arnold: Assange has correctly referred to our journalists as war criminals. It’s the TeeVee shows and Hollywood that glorify our police and our military and convince our population to be fearful of each other; hey, there’s even a great new HBO show out now, I read, called “Homeland.”
Of her fellow Obama supporters, she says “We fancied we had honest media, a shared morality, democratic processes, and an engaged, well-informed and discerning electorate.” One really can do nothing but laugh. Please, Ms. Arnold, you managed to sit on the school board all these years and didn’t realize that our schools create disengaged, disinterested consumers who think life is all about competition and boredom, lessons that serve them well out in the workforce as they accept their complicity in the corruption of their employers and do whatever it takes, following orders no matter how degrading or nonsensical or even morally questionable, to get ahead. Just like in school.
The political views people form are produced by far more than the politicians, and she contradicts herself toward the end of the article: “Our information structures and media based on lies and misrepresentations have left us cynical, mistrustful and divided. Our beliefs in various magics – markets, powerful leaders, high-tech wizardry – have made us arrogant, and our assumptions of moral, rational and logical superiority have powered our imperialistic wars and meddling in the affairs of other peoples. Our habits of blaming or devaluing others allow us to scorn and punish those we deem worthless and deny them life, liberty and justice, education, healthy environment, equality of opportunity.”
Ms. Arnold is a prime example of a well-meaning leftist who thought she could effect change within the system. I can empathize with her disgust at how far down this country has gone down morally and intellectually , but her understanding of the process is shockingly naïve.
These things seem overly obvious to me, but I thought I might point them out for people like Arnold, who amazingly enough, seems to have never considered them.
"Commercial lying" is the bottom line process underpinning so-called democratic capitalism. It's good, I hope, that some people who hadn't seen that are beginning to notice.
Everyone shoud be familiar with the body of theory developed by Edward Bernays - father of modern PR, also called commercial lying, also called "managed democracy, also called "inverted totalitarianism". He called it "manufacture of consent"> Bernays will probably go down as the most influential man - for good or for bad (clearly "bad" in this case).
There is a good BBC Adam Curtis documentary series about Bernays and Modern PR - The Century of the Self. Lawsuit threats have prevented the BBC from ever releasing recordings of, or replaying, the series. But fortunately some anonymous individual in the UK recorded the show on his VHS recorder, then someone put it in digital format, and this imperfect recording has been circulating about the internet for a while now, and even sold on DVD, for a wildly inflated price via amazon. Better to download it for free. It comes in four large files.
You can bit-torrent download it here (takes a while):
http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/4341/Adam-Curtis--The-Century-of-the-Self
Or conventional downloads are here (Scroll down the comments to find the other three parts):
http://www.archive.org/details/AdaCurtisCenturyoftheSelf_0
Gee, I find it MORE than curious that an avowed educator would do all in her power to bash public education. And that's leaving out the part about your going on record (in this forum) in support of Ron Paul.
This comment:
"Please, Ms. Arnold, you managed to sit on the school board all these years and didn’t realize that our schools create disengaged, disinterested consumers who think life is all about competition and boredom, lessons that serve them well out in the workforce as they accept their complicity in the corruption of their employers and do whatever it takes, following orders no matter how degrading .."
You sound SO right wing. (And BTW: I didn't have time to react to your recent use of the same canard used by those who have TARGETED me in this forum for repeated attacks, that instead of acknowledging this campaign, you defined it as my having a "problem" with anyone who disagree with me. Sure.)
You repeatedly place upon education (and the public school system) all the wrongs of our society. That is straight out of the rightwing playbook. (And not long ago, you took the stance of blaming mothers who went off to work... rather than noting that it's necessity, rather than some narcissistic form of feminism driving that behavior. This meme also happens to come straight out of the right-wing playbook.)
Where is your EQUAL case for the economic conditions that drive schools into dysfunction? No matter how good the teacher or the school, if a kid is hungry, his parents on drugs, or his family on the border of homelessness... no one will be able to cram a good test score out of the child. And PLENTY of today's children fit that characterization. Society is breaking down; and the economic pyramid, designed by elites, has factored considerably into this outcome. So you blame schools?
Where is your EQUAL case for the culture that screams obscenities through Rap, that pushes the glory of violence in film content, that makes it uncool to be anything but a macho-warrior, and lies 24/7 to persons of all ages on every dial of the TV screen?
Where is your indictment of lousy jobs, those that exhaust parents, the countless TWO parent families struggling to keep a roof over their children's heads, that is when the criminal "justice" system isn't locking one or both up for recreational drug use? Needless to say, that statistic disproportionately impacts families and communities of color.
You pigeon-hole the issues of failing empire into an alleged problem with the public school system, and use that as premise to defund it? Wipe it out? Encourage home schooling?
Just as the answer to the Ron Paul "kill government" brigade is that it's wiser to fix government than to leave corporations free to plunder the realm; the same applies to the public school system. MANY factors have worked to decimate it, not the least of these, a society drunk on uber: materialism. Meanwhile its economic metrics make these brass rings the Impossible Dream for most.
And as to this line from your commentary:
"but her understanding of the process is shockingly naïve."
Because Caroline worked in organizations that ONCE did FULFILL key functions and previously made a difference, she's sharing with her readership how low the bar has fallen. Many writers suggest, they don't tell or knock others over with truths that are difficult for many (as yet) to digest.
Whatever. I'll deal with your flagrant misrepentations of my views later. Your Mars energy seems to be focusing on me. Nice!
You did a bang up job on me a few days ago when I was too busy to answer. You can always up the dosage on your meds, right?
What a disgustingly low, bitchy thing to say. You really have revealed yourself.
So why don't you resurrect that interchange, so we can all see what it was about?
Sioux and Elizabeth, please stop fighting. Let me see if I can try to help you both out. Both of you have had excellent discussions in the past but the last thing we need to see are conflicts. Attack me if you must but I still believe in peace and diplomacy before it becomes too late.
Elizabeth, I have read your posts and understand your anger based on the fact that public education has deteriorated to the level where home schooling is looking like a competitive alternative. Does this, however, mean that we should allow public education to fail? If you must say yes, then I disagree but respect your position. I understand that you are also angry that Caroline did not go hard enough on Obama and did not succeed at changing the system from within. The point that I am trying to make is Arnold can't be held responsible for Obama's failures. It is my understanding that she tried to do what she could within her powers and confidence to make the change. As we all know, this country is nothing like a socialist leaning nation where people would believe in collective thinking and action. This leaves me asking the following question: What could Caroline Arnold have done that might have changed the situation?
Sioux, Elizabeth is not attacking public education, that is the public education that both you and I had been fortunate enough to have in the 1970s. Last year, public schools all over the nation were undergoing closure and those that remained would be overcrowded and difficult to sustain with limited budgets. I would still refuse to attack public education seeing the full picture. However, I would acknowledge that this must be reversed or else people will get the wrong impression about public education and lose hope and faith in it. How do you propose that we change that and how do we prevent people such as Caroline Arnold and Elizabeth H from losing confidence, hope, and faith altogether?
Yes, Arnold pretty much lost me with that paragraph too. How can she possilby condone commerical lying and then condemn poliitical misinformation? To my mind they are the same thing. Before our youth are old enough to vote they are exposed to countless commericals. A quick google search says 50,000 a year. 50,000 false, or misleading messages blasted at them through every medium imaginable, print, TV, radio, cell phones, billboards, everywhere there are commericals. Does this not set up a precedent for them to be lied to when they reach voting age? A precedent to have those lies be normalized and simply be the way politics are conducted? Then consider that the same companies that produce the lies and misinformation in the commericials are the same ones that fund the politicians campaigns and TV spots so that the elected politicians can then in turn lie for them so that the whole charade can continue. Duplicity and lies being categorized as a "altogether noble industry" is a disgusting statement from one with so many years under her belt. Articles like this make me lose hope. What we have going on is a little more than "tweaking" what information is released by the media. It's total media control, and whether it's business or politics (which are really the same thing) the damage done is damage done. When a company like coke can produce commericals featuring children, telling children how good the company is for the world because they are now producing a bottle made from plants instead of plastic while simultaneoulsy ignoring the damage they cause by privatizing water resources and strike busting, it's no different than Bush telling Americans there are WMDs in Iraq or Obama telling people that they will get fair healthcare program. It's a whitewash (or in the case of coke, a greenwash) to sanctify illegal and unjust actions. To make those actions acceptable to a public that is conditioned to being lied to. The corporate is the political in modern America. What's good for one is good for the other and what works for one (lying) is what's working for the other.
"Obama also betrayed us, albeit with our consent. He – and we – believed he could successfully lead changes we envisioned by managing the machinery of politics and the engines of economics."
Speak for yourself, dear, I voted for McKinney.
ekobe- I liked this article for the most part, but that was the line that got me, too. I did vote for him, and no way did I give my consent for him to follow so completely in the slime trail left by the Bush Gang. Maybe she's talking about the Democrats, who as a party have definitely given their consent to (and assistance with) his betrayal.
But the real error in the above statement is that "he believed he could ...lead changes...". He never had himself fooled, he was always Wall St.'s man, BP's man, Monsanto's man, GE's man, the Fed's man, a man concerned with political victories regardless of the effect on the electorate, a man who talked the talk but never had any intention whatsoever of walking the walk.
Exactly.
Looks like we were thinking the same thing at the same time.
Elainem, agreed... I was just surprised by so many who characterize themselves from the "left" bought the rhetoric. As a retrospective, I remember most vividly getting lambasted on this forum for supporting Third Party participation circa 2008 election from the true believers. My only question is how many who acknowledge their mistake will correct it in 2012? Or who will again slide back under the rubric of "lessor evil" memes?
It depends on whether someone can form a viable third party with a viable candidate. If B.O, is up against some totally out religious right wing tea party animal, I won't vote for him but I will have sympathy for those who do buy into lessor evil sales pitch.
This benighted land so badly needs more than the two "official" parties, but many United States citizens still seem to believe that the Two Party System is part of the Constitution because it has been a tradition (one that has been useful to the Powers That Be) for a long time. Educating the populace as to the real possibility and benefits of having one or more new parties would be a good thing to set out to do.
The quoted passage confused me, as the article appears to both blame Obama and say he had good intentions.
So my criticism is not with the sentiment--losing hope after you've been betrayed for 30-odd years--but with this immense blind spot.
Obama never had any intention of doing--or believed in anything-- but lining the pockets of his wealthy backers and his own. Nor did he intend to change anything W and predecessors did. Indeed, he stomped on the fascist gas, and the canyon yawns ahead--
We have two choices: Enslavement, or resistance.
Think I know where the author stands here.
"We are all responsible for Obama's failure" will become the hideout for Democratic scoundrels next year. If this lady had read the many articles about Obama-and-war plus his own statements on "dumb and clever wars" that appeared in the spring of 2008 and during the presidential campaigns instead of getting a Hope button she might not now be in this blue funk. Millions of gullible people will fall for some other hot-air Obama slogan in 2012. What will it be? "Onward Christian Soldiers", whatever "Onward" means?
WWWAAAHHH!!!! I lost hope because that asshole in the White House turned out to be just like every other politican. Well Caroline you go ahead and have your pity party. Some of us are going to continue on despite the disapproval of the corporate media and our phoney politicial system.
It's that kind of apathy that "they" want from the muddled class. Sure the majority of the semi-evolved primates who populate this pretty planet are clueless to the destruction. That or they just "don't want to think about it". Why go into nihilistic despair? Even when it's a losing battle, keep fighting for youself ...baby! So when you wake up in the morning, you can look in the mirror and know you are doing the best you can. Don't let it break you....be the thought criminal, the subversive,or the radical. Just don't be a tool for the establishment.
Keep educating the populace to what's going on, don't throw your hands up and say to hell with it. I mean seriously sweetie, that kind of attitude you might as well jump in front of a bus and get it over with quickly.
22: Your tone of condescension is both ludicrous and unwarranted. Caroline is 80 years old. Do you think you could write that coherently at that seasoned age? The woman has seen more, and done more in a year than you probably have in a decade.
I remember the Saturday Night Live sketch called "Sports fans," with fat slobs from Boston stuffing their faces as they critiqued the field moves of their favorite (or rival) team. That's what slugs like YOU sound like. You show up using an endless supply of screen-names to provide the ILLUSION that many people take umbrage with each and every author featured on C.D. You look for any chink in their armor to capitaize on, in order to ideally shred their credibility. It's so ugly. And equally unfair. It shows such a fundamental disrespect for others' dedicated life works, while misrepresenting their views.
Why not save your criticism for where it belongs?
This is just plain disgusting:
"I mean seriously sweetie, that kind of attitude you might as well jump in front of a bus and get it over with quickly."
You're probably the same Jaberwocky, using this NEW name, who said something similar about Phil Rockstroh. Posters like you remind me of guards passing through the virtual crowd prescribing virtual Prozac. You want everyone to put on a happy face, and just "don't worry, be happy." You make what's incisive and TRUE about the imminent collapse of our inverted culture into a parody on the attitude of the individual brave enough to express it.
Here's what gives me the power to endure fools like you: the knowledge that YOUR KARMA will catch up with you.
What I would hope sincere readers of this site would notice is that this is an established M.O (modus operandi). The probability that EVERY writer would meet at least one critic waiting to decimate their argument on an allegedly Progressive Site is low. That some are paid to do this, and therefore post long hours and often START the thread's discussion, suggests the greater probability.
Your crew is Amerika's 21st century version of little Eichmanns. Are you proud of that?
You beat me to it. While I don't agree with her tone of despair, she has the experience and qualifications to support her view. At 80, I'm sure she is disappointed in this little fool we elected, but the time for buttons is past.
The personal attack on Caroline is both unwarranted and childish.
I would also hope you would notice that refuting arguments isn't allowed on this site, that's why "The probability that EVERY writer would meet at least one critic waiting to decimate their argument on an allegedly Progressive Site is low."
ALUGILAC:
I would agree with your last statement if it weren't for two things:
1. The fact that this site is one that has a number of uniformed WATCHERS planting divisiveness, when not misdirecting the conversation. Yesterday's article by Thomas Harrington explains two of the three tactics used. The one he left out is based on the tried and true method that's come up through the ages: that of shooting the messenger.
2. The critiques are NOT honest. None of us is pure or perfect. When a writer relates a position on a particular topic, and "the usual suspects" arrive to discredit said writer for things that may or may not be real or relevant, that is a TARGETED smear campaign. It's done to knee cap the left. And the fact that it's a given, that people are standing by following the command to enact this strategy means it's funded. How much by the likes of Koch Industries? How much by a right wing think tank? How much by Homeland Security, is tough to say.
In fact, when I find "the plants" setting up bogus attacks (from time to time) on one another (this working as cover to dilute their more targeted attacks) I sometimes wonder if more than one covert organization is behind the LONG hours (paid time) of those posting their various and sundry, duplicitous agendas.
The presence of at least 15 avowed Ron Paul supporters, most quite vocal about this choice, says a lot about the inversion of Progressive views, postures, and positions... and it smells like Karl Rove's playbook, all the way.
One person pushes the Meme that Ralph Nader profits from an industry that makes weapons. Others try to discredit the likes of Medea Benjamin for using air travel to get to protest destinations. Some use the "elitism" meme on writers like Phil Rockstroh; and then there's always the indictment that the article's author ONCE UPON A TIME voted for a Dem, or NOW is waking up to the full extent of the duopoly sell-out. This is a partial list.
What should be funny about all this is that the very ones SEWING the divisiveness, turn around and demand unity among all factions! That Progressives must find common cause with Amerika's fascist theocrats, or their gun-men. (Hedges' telling work, "American Fascists" is a good analysis of what's taking place. It would be like asking Germany's Jews of the l930's-l940's to make common cause with Hitler and the brownshirts.)
And when all of these methods fail, there are always those on board to minimize issues that are significant players in peoples' lives, as if these MERELYqualify as identity politics and its dividing lines.
It goes WAY beyond herding cats.
Ultimately, if someone is trying to make the world a better place, what is to be gained from discrediting them? For those few who sound like embeds, but truly are not, the character trait of authoritarianism imbues their posts with a very strict, rigid concept of what is tolerable. Frankly, that kind of narrow judgment is anathema to anything remotely Progressive or "Left" of the centrist idiocies that pass for policy in this morally bankrupt time. And how many tossing poisoned barbs from "the peanut gallery" have ever done anything that put them on the front lines? Ever taught classes, held office, published anything of merit? The cast of IMPOTENT experts would make for a good satire...
BTW: You used another tactic which is also favored by The Embed Squad... that of "making the discussion about a flaw in the author," in this case, you push the idea that Ms. Arnold wields a "TONE OF DESPAIR."
Only a chimp would not face despair given today's givens! Amerika IS the Titanic; so if you wish to smile and tip the waiters, while bitching about those REACTING to the crisis, I'd say YOU were the one with a character disorder.
It's great to read Siouxrose when she's really pissed off.
Not pissed off... you're responding to my GREAT passion for The Truth. Although I do lose my patience with the phonies and paid informants on this site. True, there are some authoritarians who sound like both (or either), and it's not easy to tell them apart from the Uniformed Guards.
BTW: If you like this one, check out my response (#253) on the Naomi Klein thread... it's on the last page since I got to "the party" late.
It's also just about full moon, and it will be full in Aries. This marks the only (annual) full moon amplifying the sign of Mars, and it represents the greatest polarity between the ethos of war and that of justice (as the sun is in Libra). Full moon means the lights (sun & Moon) are diametrically opposd. Meanwhile, until 2025 A.D. every time the moon grows full in a cardinal sign (like now), she'll be squaring off against Pluto, the planet of the plutocracy, and of theft in high places. Pluto is crossing the sign where State Powers become compressed, and fear functions as its psychic fuel. Small wonder there's much talk of plutocracy, and evidence of governmental theft while the people are left to starve. It's like watching the remnants of the French Revolution resurrect. Who knows, some of us probably WERE there. I make it no secret that I believe in reincarnation; and as a matter of fact, I would not be surprised if a few from this forum were not prominent among those most enthusiastic about burning witches or rabble rousers to keep the pack quiet...back then, as now. Yet they say they love liberty. Alas.
Astrology is so much bunk. Citing it reveals your nuttier side.
SR is no Joan of Arc.
Yeah, it doesn't matter to you that there's a difference between a woman like Joan of Arc who was burned at the stake through no fault of her own and a phony who chose to burn themselves and blame someone else for it. Thanks for proving my point.
The Return of Shawn Berry, Chapter 132, Burning Joan.
I like the following posts.
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 11:18am"
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 2:28pm"
I should have made it clear that the following posts
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 11:30am"
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 1:38pm"
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 3:10pm"
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 2:46pm"
"Posted by Siouxrose Oct 9 2011 - 2:07pm"
are where she got personal and threw me off. If anyone else had written what she wrote in those posts, who would have disagreed with me that he/she burned away their credibility? I like this site and I'm trying to defend it but I'm having a hard time answering to other people who keep asking me why some people can get away with saying what others would get banned for. I used to take SR somewhat seriously but I can't anymore if she's going to spew 3-5 extremely negative posts for every one good post she writes. If you'd like, we can discuss this.
"I'm having a hard time answering to other people who keep asking me why some people can get away with saying what others would get banned for."
Right. The people on "Days of our Blogs" are terribly concerned that a poster on one blog is getting away with saying things others would get banned for. Little Barney can hardly talk about anything else and Sue is so upset she's had to go and take some of her "medicine." Oh when will this horrible inequity be resolved - or will the website's reputation be sullied forever? Find out on tomorrow's exciting episode of "Days of our Blogs".
Hero-4-peace was repeatedly banned and is only here to troll. His former names include Namaste, Justice Arcs, Hughnanimous, Gerald, "adamantly so", powerfully_true, npwr.luv, enliven, veracity, and a bunch of other temporary aliases.
---"the very ones SEWING the divisiveness"---
And certain commenters here also "sew" divisiveness by criticizing spelling and grammar. It is "sowing divisiveness" - in the manner of planting seeds not stitching cloth.
But your points are well-taken. Except Ms. Arnolds remark about accepting commercial lying was rather shocking and worthy of criticism.
SABOCAT/PDJ: In case it has not been clear enough, I take you for a paid informant. So, whenever you seek to DENIGRATE those of us who do not bow to the Official 911 narrative, YOU are the one who reliably acts in a divisive capacity.
If my tombstone only leveled the critique against me, that I corrected others' impossible spelling and sometimes grammatical errors, that would hardly speak badly about my character... or lifetime achievements.
There are 2 major reasons why I point these errors out:
1. First, as an educator, there's nothing wrong with holding people to a standard. If we share in this forum not just to hear ourselves let off steam, but rather, to learn something, then why make such a big deal about helping others to improve their writing? People show intelligence (or its absence) in how they form a sentence.
2. When the Sunshine Act allowed for the exposure of those who INFORMED on citizens during the Mccarthy phase, what was (also) plainly in evidence, was their piss poor spelling. I think it speaks to the education level of the ones willing to turn in, or on, fellow citizens.
While a sociopath with an Ivy League education may position himself to do much harm, I think it's generally more the case that the better the education, the more Progressive the views. EZEFLYER published some data on conservatives (in the past) that spoke of their lack of vision, education, and capacity to think outside of a narrow box.
IF you are an informer, one that I've called out for good reason, then it's rather comical for YOU to accuse me of being divisive. At least I am here to present Truth as I know it, wearing no disguise. I can hardly say the same for the tag team that makes use of COUNTLESS screen names, as camouflage, and their repeated attempts to bash me, and a select few others in this forum.
Given the endless stream of trespasses conducted by this corrupt government that's passed seamlessly from one "party" to the next, while continuing on in its chain of illegal massacres, along with a massive theft of the commons, for anyone to take Official Narratives seriously says a lot about their misplaced loyalties.
I've also noticed that those who attack me also "coincidentally" happen to buy this Official Narrative. Sounds to me like boys in blue, or some other uniform, standing together to eliminate any views that would challenge those of The Controllers.
And by the way, you generally are a lousy speller... which probably continues the tradition of the l950's Watchers. His-story does repeat.
Nicely stated. I wonder if PP is listening? And no matter how many facts are presented, it appears that a vast majority will again be drinking the Obama coolaid in 2012.
Your points are well made and I agree with the general premises of your commentary however that said.
One must always be careful in making such rebuttals that one is not doing exactly what is being condemned . Of the many that comment on these articles here on Common Dreams , there are as many as sincere as Ms Arnold in wanting to see this world become a better and more just place.
They can not all be embeds. Yet there are definitely embeds.
Thus it is always best to try and rebut the points being made rather then try and attack the character of the person making them and from my personal experience this can be very hard to do.
We are in essence all "writers" here and some of the commentary I read is more lucid and informative then the article being commented on . As much as possible I try to operate under the premise that "We are all on the same side" even with those who I might disagree with on particular points while recognizing that in fact we might not all be on the same side.
It very much a Buddhist thing is it not that trying to separate the "reality" from the "illusion" ?
GW NORTH: I certainly understand the Buddhist content of your comment, but you have never been the target of attacks. Having had them hurled my way for 3 years, I am not so cavalier. I have also noticed that the favored canard is to suggest that I bring them on because I am, by nature, argumentative and difficult to get along with. Because there is no level playing field here, and because the informers PLAY DIRTY, I no longer see the need to wear gloves. I tried that approach way back when, and while a few backed off, the SAME campaign remains and it generally makes use of the SAME allegations, only hidden behind "new" screen names. In fact, there is a program the MIC is probably using that sets up multiple personae as screen names to dominate message boards with the ideas The Controllers want to see amplified.
What's also intriguing is that CD (and other sources) has published exposes on the way this group operates. I not only see it here, I've experienced it; and if you notice, I tend to expose the ones who would otherwise get away with acts of character assassination. They ALWAYS have team back-up to reinforce their views, and this lends them false legitimacy. I get attacked for exposing their methods, if not their motives.
When you or Jclientelle (recently), two posters who I hold in high esteem for their principled and intelligent commentary, fall into the meme of equivalence... it's scary. By extending "fairness" to those who post with unsavory agendas, you indirectly normalize their views. Like I said, should you find yourself on the receiving end of not just one of two negative comments, but entire STREAMS of them, some done when you're not even present on a particular thread, others done very late (2-4 AM), then you'll understand the nature of said attack(s) on a more visceral level.
I know you mean well. I've seen some of the tag team use this same meme. One plays good cop and makes it seem that the person being attacked should be viewed on a par with the person who is attacking. It's disturbing. It's like asking the citizen in the occupied zone to find common cause with the aggressor. Their respective positions reflect NO basis for an equivalency.
And you are correct (and I've stated this) that there are some genuinely conservative people who post on these threads who are honestly reflecting their views. It's when the old names, or those "wearing" new ones, show up to reinforce each other, thus re-enacting the FAMILIAR M.O. that I sense these are not new or innocent posters... of course it is MADE to look like that. What better basis for plausible deniability? How better to isolate the radical? Or make it about the poster's temper, or temperament, or anger, or despair... rather than the insights they deliver? This is nothing short of Karl Rove stuff, GW. You ought to be able to recognize it by now. And I will say this, I have been recognized for my prescience for 30 years... the level of intuition that I resonate to is developed. Keep in mind, if I were a trained athlete, I could make that claim about sports, if a medical doctor, I could make that claim about medicine, and so forth. When you work on something with sincerity and commitment, it generally grows.
We all have different gifts, and this intuition allows me to key into what is NOT obvious to many. Three people in this forum know that I recognized them when they used new screen names... they are people I email (or vice versa). Most of us recognize Thomas More under any number of names, too. It's not just his incapacity to use the apostrophe; it's his views about Texas, American exceptionalism, his prejudice against "illegal" aliens, and his tendency to rail at the $ spent on public education, etc. Our basis memes and how we express ourselves operate like an invisible finger print. Most would know me by my occasional passages into the esoteric, or astrological references, even if I used another name.
BTW: Someone I respect from this site sent me an email reminding me that the Nazis were very into burning occult or esoteric books. They do NOT want the higher understanding to touch "The People." The primary lens through which to view the human microcosm from a higher level has been denied or demonized for centuries, and thus humanity remains stuck inside the same ideological feedback loops.
When Einstein related that "No problem can be solved from the level of thinking that brought it about," all this bashing of mystics and seers ought to be recognized for what it is: the means to insure THAT BOX, i.e. the status quo.
Nonetheless, thank you for "the advice"
Uh,oh .....
Good luck, GW .....
Welcome back. If you thought last year was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. Thanks to SR, this site has become a joke to bloggers of other sites. As many as 185 and counting have withheld donations. I asked one of them why and he replied that SR can get away with saying anything that others would be banned for. Another explained why she thought SR fits the description of a cyberbully. Another called her a psychic vampire. What the hell is that all about? Another asked me why she has the privilege of copying Rush Limbaugh's trick of trying to conflate her personal opinions as facts. I got this and many other questions and comments about SR and CD that I can't answer. She'll make some nice posts and I'll share it on other sites. Other than that, I can't take her seriously.
Yo, Marco! I guess everyone has his/her pathologies - me? I'm a masochist .... LOL
I can't picture you as a masochist. You're kidding, right?
Marco,
To be willing to subject oneself to the slings and arrows that are thrust at one should one dare to disagree with or critique certain "shining lights" here, one has to be at least a bit of a masochist ...
I don't see any reason to flag that post. False flaggers as always.
I agree. I see no reason it should have been flagged.
Siouxrose
Well, all I can say is that it wasn't a tactic, it was simply what I felt from her article. I felt her tone was OF despair.
Frankly I haven't noticed the "plants" you speak of. There is little real discussion here at all. mostly cloned comment. .
In any case, America obviously isn't the Titanic. No more than France or Germany, the planet possibly, but not any particular country.. All of these country's have had trouble before and when these current problems are solved will face others.
Singing one note arias, not allowing real discussion and censoring opinion as is commonplace here is not reacting to the "crisis"
We allowed and made this crisis, we can fix it. But only if we pursue real solutions, real answers, using real methods. I assume your rant about me having a character disorder was inspired by my comment that "the time for buttons is past" I see nothing else you could relate it to. So I guess I have a "character disorder" , because I firmly believe the time for buttons is long past.
You took too many gutter lessons from me. Shut up 22. You ain't pretty, just pretty nasty. Thanks to the next commentor for pointing this out also.
Caroline Arnold's incisive writing is always a treat. When I see her name, or that of Phil Rockstroh, Linh Dinh, or Robert Jensen... I rush in to see what their multi-faceted minds, and skilled way with words, have rendered.
To those who have already shown up with critiques, Caroline is speaking of Amerikan society as a whole. The fact that a public relations firm could be hired by the Bush Administration for the purposes of cleaning up the mess, perception-wise that is, resulting from the brutal war of aggression staged against Iraq, tells us all we really need to know about so-called public relations, the velvety arm of Manufacturing Consent. Many citizens don't realize the degree to which they've been programmed to march along.
I resonate with Caroline's honesty about where the nation's fallen.
Yesterday I drove to Gainesville (college town) as I like to shop there once a week. Where I live there are no organic food producers. In any case, the ambiance of the Natural Market was disturbing because the day's football game was loudly broadcast throughout the store. I felt like I was inside the Roman Arena.
For some time I've offered the analogy (in this forum) between the nation's worship of violent contact sports like football, and the ease with which frames like "with us or against us" become absorbed.
Unlike Caroline, I hold Obama to account, just as I would Bush, Cheney, and other Masters of Destruction, a/k/a The Lords of Disaster Capitalism. No one who runs for office, or comes near to the Amerikan throne at this point in time is likely to challenge the MIC; yet when the nation has exported a significant percentage of its industrial base and substituted in its place war, along with what's euphemistically known as "finance" (better recognized as the financial weapons of mass destruction), then these "investments" become the basis for the entity's own inevitable implosion.
The Universe is based on laws. Planets adhere to reliable orbits, water freezes at a specific temperature, elements hold specific qualities... and so on. Mother Nature can put up with a lot, as any parent who loves a child demonstrates; but there does come a time of reckoning. The "uprisings" now beginning may light the sparks that may save an inverted Amerika from her self, or otherwise help to counter those dark interests that have embedded themselves into government and all related fonts of power. Nakedly on display is substantial evidence that these entities only to grant to themselves riches, while decimating the quality of life for millions, as they also court an ecological form of Armageddon.
Now that my new book is and under copyright, I will share a concept from it:
It's incumbent upon us to turn End Times into Mend Times. THAT is the work that stands before us all.
What we term reality can be compared to a Lotus or an onion... the point being, it is composed of many levels. Some people are action-oriented and need to express their vital force being out on the front lines. Others are contemplative, and express themselves by designing the ideological underpinnings of that which is yet to come. Still others are artists, and inspire change through song, visual works, or poetry. Then there are the healers and those who lend compassionate support to others, and so on.
Only authoritarians demand that everyone express activity in a way that conforms to their notion of how change/evolution should happen.
Amerika is now passing through its Phoenix days; and out of the ashes, a different entity will be born. The next 3-4 years are the most intense and decisive phase of this process.
Losing hope? The man was and is an obvious scam. He and his Wall Street Dems ARE the 1 percent. We need to throw them all out of office and return the Republicans to the asylum. If ever we needed a third party, we need it now.
Well, the first paragraph turned me off, so i can't be objective here.
But if she was still holding on to her obama button............Actually, i was hoping that those who can't see beneath the surface when they meet or see and hear another human being might learn from the discovery that their saviour and chief was a phony. I am being simplistic here. I don't know if that is true. They just learned that this particular man was a fake, but have they had a breakthrough in consciousness that allows them to see beyone their own projections? This i can't say.