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Libya: Here We Go Again
Here we go again. The cheering crowds. The deposed dictator. The encomiums to freedom and liberty. The American military as savior. You would think we would have learned in Afghanistan or Iraq. But I guess not. I am waiting for a trucked-in crowd to rejoice as a Gadhafi statue is toppled and Barack Obama lands on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit to announce “Mission Accomplished.” War, as long as you view it through the distorted lens of the corporate media, is not only entertaining, but allows us to confuse state power with personal power. It permits us to wallow in unchecked self-exaltation. We are a nation that loves to love itself.
A rebel fighter enters the house of Al-Saadi Gadhafi the son of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi through a window. (AP / Sergey Ponomarev)
I know enough of Libya, a country I covered for many years as the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times, to assure you that the chaos and bloodletting have only begun. Moammar Gadhafi, during one of my lengthy interviews with him under a green Bedouin tent in the sprawling Bab al-Aziziya army barracks in Tripoli, once proposed marrying one of his sons to Chelsea Clinton as a way of mending fences with the United States. He is as insane as he appears and as dangerous. But we should never have become the air force, trainers, suppliers, special forces and enablers of rival tribal factions, goons under the old regime and Islamists that are divided among themselves by deep animosities and a long history of violent conflict.
Stopping Gadhafi forces from entering Benghazi six months ago, which I supported, was one thing. Embroiling ourselves in a civil war was another. And to do it Obama blithely shredded the Constitution and bypassed Congress in violation of the War Powers Resolution. Not that the rule of law matters much in Washington. The dark reasoning of George W. Bush’s administration was that the threat of terrorism and national security gave the executive branch the right to ignore all legal restraints. The Obama administration has made this disregard for law bipartisan. Obama assured us when this started that it was not about “regime change.” But this promise proved as empty as the ones he made during his presidential campaign. He has ruthlessly prosecuted the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where military planners speak of a continued U.S. presence for the next couple of decades. He has greatly expanded our proxy wars, which rely heavily on drone and missile attacks, as well as clandestine operations, in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Libya. Add a few more countries and we will set the entire region alight.
The NATO airstrikes on the city of Sirte expose the hypocrisy of our “humanitarian” intervention in Libya. Sirte is the last Gadhafi stronghold and the home to Gadhafi’s tribe. The armed Libyan factions within the rebel alliance are waiting like panting hound dogs outside the city limits. They are determined, once the airstrikes are over, not only to rid the world of Gadhafi but all those within his tribe who benefited from his 42-year rule. The besieging of Sirte by NATO warplanes, which are dropping huge iron fragmentation bombs that will kill scores if not hundreds of innocents, mocks the justification for intervention laid out in a United Nations Security Council resolution. The U.N., when this began six months ago, authorized “all necessary measures … to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack.” We have, as always happens in war, become the monster we sought to defeat. We destroy in order to save. Libya’s ruling National Transitional Council estimates that the number of Libyans killed in the last six months, including civilians and combatants, has exceeded 50,000. Our intervention, as in Iraq and Afghanistan, has probably claimed more victims than those killed by the former regime. But this intervention, like the others, was never, despite all the high-blown rhetoric surrounding it, about protecting or saving Libyan lives. It was about the domination of oil fields by Western corporations.
Once the Libyans realize what the Iraqis and Afghans have bitterly discovered—that we have no interest in democracy, that our primary goal is appropriating their natural resources as cheaply as possible and that we will sacrifice large numbers of people to maintain our divine right to the world’s diminishing supply of fossil fuel—they will hate us the way we deserve to be hated. Libya has the ninth largest oil reserves in the world, which is why we react with moral outrage and military resolve when Gadhafi attacks his citizens, but ignore the nightmare in the Congo, where things for the average Congolese are far, far worse. It is why the puppets in the National Transitional Council have promised to oust China and Brazil from the Libyan oil fields and turn them over to Western companies. The unequivocal message we deliver daily through huge explosions and death across the occupied Middle East is: We have everything and if you try and take it away from us we will kill you.
History is replete with conquering forces being cheered when they arrive, whether during the Nazi occupation of the Ukraine in World War II, the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon or our own arrival in Baghdad, and then rapidly mutating from liberator to despised enemy. And once our seizure of Libyan oil becomes clear it will only ramp up the jihadist hatred for America that has spread like wildfire across the Middle East. We are recruiting the next generation of 9/11 hijackers, all waiting for their chance to do to us what we are doing to them.
As W.H. Auden understood:
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.
The force used by the occupier to displace the old regime always makes sure the new regime is supine and complaint. The National Transitional Council, made up of former Gadhafi loyalists, Islamists and tribal leaders, many of whom detest each other, will be the West’s vehicle for the reconfiguration of Libya. Libya will return to being the colony it was before Gadhafi and the other young officers in 1969 ousted King Idris, who among other concessions had let Standard Oil write Libya’s petroleum laws. Gadhafi’s defiance of Western commercial interests, which saw the nationalization of foreign banks and foreign companies, along with the oil industry, as well as the closure of U.S. and British air bases, will be reversed. The despotic and collapsed or collapsing regimes in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Syria once found their revolutionary legitimacy in the pan-Arabism of Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. But these regimes fell victim to their own corruption, decay and brutality. None were worth defending. Their disintegration, however, heralds a return of the corporate and imperial power that spawned figures like Nasser and will spawn his radical 21st century counterparts.
The vendettas in Libya have already begun. Government buildings in Tripoli have been looted, although not on the scale seen in Baghdad. Poor black sub-Saharan African immigrant workers have been beaten and killed. Suspected Gadhafi loyalists or spies have been tortured and assassinated. These eye-for-an-eye killings will, I fear, get worse. The National Transitional Council has announced that it opposes the presence in Libya of U.N. military observers and police, despite widespread atrocities committed by Gadhafi loyalists. The observers and police have been offered to help quell the chaos, train new security forces and provide independent verification of what is happening inside Libya. But just as Gadhafi preferred to do dirty work in secret, so will the new regime. It is an old truism, one I witnessed repeatedly in Latin America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans, that yesterday’s victims rapidly become today’s victimizers.


127 Comments so far
Show AllI usually agree with Chris Hedges.
What does he say about Libya's "direct democracy"? What does he know of Libya's free education. right to housing and food--
That, and wholly state-owned banks that issue only INTEREST-FREE loans by law?
Isn't that why Quaddafi is insane and dangerous to "Western" ideals..that of debt peonage and social Darwinism gone mad on meth and steroids?
Isn't that why he must be killed? In case western slaves hear about it and get all uppity?
I'm with you, puffin. Hedges is quite confused and self-contradictory here. For example:
"Stopping Gadhafi forces from entering Benghazi six months ago, which I supported, was one thing. Embroiling ourselves in a civil war was another."
Hey, Chris! You can't have one without the other! Why did you fall for the lies?
I agree, too. This is definitely not Hedges' finest or deepest level of writing or inquiry. Heck, he even gives the 911 Official Story a nod. What's up with that? I will say that the conclusion--that victims become victimizers--does have a profound ring of truth to it. This is why ALL the masters have made forgiveness the cornerstone of their philosophies. Until a society can let go of what's been done unto it, it's apt to one day do (similarly) unto others.
Perhaps his hit piece on atheists addled his brain?
I agree with both of you on this point.
Hear hear!
I agree with you, puffin - it seems the US is determined to kill off any government anywhere that successfully provides its people with the necessities of life. That old fear of "socialism" that stated 80 years ago and never really went away.
Not only oil, but Ghaddafi was working on organizing African states in to a kind of unified entity a la OAS, and EU, in order to protect pan-African economic interests at a time when it is being carved up by foreign powers. Also, there's the eternal banking/financial issue, where Ghaddafi wanted Libyan and African wealth to be free from IMF, WB, and other foreign systems. I wonder why Hedges mentioned only the oil.
Beat me to it. The issue I wanted to raise about Gaddafi has been brought up. Libya also has developed access to the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System (through a recently completed, highly expensive, and massive engineering project, the Great Man-made River Project or GMMR), i.e. some of the best water deposits in Africa. And he probably had in mind selling it to his fellow Africans moreso than Europe or America — Water is getting up there with oil in terms or political importance after all. But the banking issue, the African Union idea, and even the African Gold Dinar currency he proposed for the AU were all the bigger reasons. Plus Gaddafi's loud mouth which he'd been using a lot lately against 'foreign intervention' into African affairs. He had to be shut up, and what could be a better prize than all that oil, water, and all that infrastructure that will need to be rebuilt by Western contractors after all is said and done? That's a huge prize too. Bomb, to rebuild (for humanitarian 'investors' of course)... can you say Bechtel and Halliburton?
BTW, is it possible to discover which companies/funds a US president has investments with?
Try this
http://tinyurl.com/3gqnvb5
(I tinyurled it myself - it's just a page of google links)
Good luck!
SALUSA: Given what you've related, it would be hard to believe that Mr. Hedges wasn't aware of at least some of these items. And given the U.S./Nato record on utilizing false pretenses to enter into armed conflict with the fig leaf of humanitarian aid always used for cover, how is it possible that Hedges bought into this ruse during the first 6 months of the (bombing) campaign? Something doesn't make sense here...
Hi SR.
The West being the 'Good Guys' is a very powerful paradigm. We are, for the most part here on CD, all part of 'The West'. And isn't it supposed to be a 'good thing' for the 'developing world' to become more like us, and to emulate our vaunted 'Freedoms'?
I know, don't gag.
Not sure what else I can say. I used to believe myself that if we could just get handheld cameras and computers out there, if people could see the truth about how the 'Liberal Democracies' did it, they'd clue up and demand the same 'freedoms' and 'rights' we have for themselves (yes, I was once overly optimistic/ignorant about the truth of Western society... back in the late eighties, when I was still a kid). Well, there was certainly an 'Arab Spring' that I at least partly attribute to empowering/bottom-up communications technology like cell phones and laptops. But the other side of this sadly, is the world didn't just get an eyeful of what we were 'getting right'. That's been so much eclipsed by what we're doing wrong, that it makes me, and most of the rest of the world from what I hear sick.
We ARE NOT a good example to the rest of the world. None of us are now, right left liberal conservative... who cares. We're all dirty, we're all polluted, we're all just part of the Big Satan now. Can you believe it, of all people, Gaddafi was for all practical purposes 'the GOOD GUY' vs NATO and the imperialist powers, with 'liberal' (not really) 'democratic' (not really) leaders on the sidelines cheer-leading for 'revolution'!
That's perverse, perhaps too perverse for even a strong bastion of leftist values and frames such as Hedges (for whom the frame of popular uprising is very attractive). We all know the 'Repugs' are that evil, but are we ALL *really that bad*?!? YES. But most people who are making a decent paycheck (professional left), regardless of their ideology, "can't believe it". They represent what is good about us, they are the silver lining that 'get's it'. What I think they can't take is that regarding some of the really hard questions (like 9-11 specifically in Hedges case, not our need for resistance, an issue on which I support him), much of the 'professional left' has been 'getting it' wrong for a long time. I will take real guts to confront that.
That's my take on it.
Hello back at you: I like your thought process, as it's clear that you try to take a lot of angles into account. That's a good thing.
We are all a product of our times. A few are stronger than others, morally & intellectually, in their efforts to climb over The Cuckoo's Nest. From the moments our first breaths are drawn, all sorts of conditioning devices begin to shape our awareness. Almost no one escapes these programming forces, especially not now, in the era that's been centered around the teachings of Bernays, high tech assisted.
My point is that when we wake up, if we try to remain MINDFUL (a Buddhist premise) of the ways our actions harm others, and take precautions, that is a good thing. I drive my car only when I have to. Yet I don't feel responsible, directly, for the way that oil & auto companies conspired to leave cleaner technologies, along with better fuel efficiency, out of the mix.
Ultimately, the paradigm based on a mode of capitalist consumption, of shop till you drop, and an abhorrence towards the very premise of Conservation, is about to come crashing down. Weather events ARE wreaking havoc. World currency is decoupled from actual industries and items of genuine worth. The masses are poor, fed up, angry, and in many cases starving... but the machinery of the new pharaohs, every act in service to Capital (what I term Carpicon) keeps on churning away. That is, for now... we know it's wrong, we would like to change it, but it will take MILLIONS to do so. And it seems the numbers are growng by the day, largely due to the blind greed and utter disrespect for law & justice shown by the financial elites.
This, too, shall pass. We are responsible, inasmuch as we lend our support to the dying paradigm or otherwise. As we gradually withdraw our support, purchase used items when we must purchase things at all, if lucky, grow our own food, work barter and trade with the skills we have, and endeavor to walk softly on this majestic, SACRED, green earth... we do our part to help build what is NEXT to come.
Many of those on 'the professional left', I think, consider themselves to be in hard-earned positions of 'authority', where they are 'so close to being able to make a difference'. They know the dangers of 'saying too much', or 'going there' ('Oh, bad move... he/she went there!', they'll say). A whole lifetime of achievement, a vaunted reputation potentially flushed away, not because telling the whole story was telling it wrong, but because the society wasn't ready for the real story.
I still think someone's got to go ahead and try to do it. I mean, c'mon people! We're TEN YEARS after 9-11, 11 years after Bush v Gore, 48 years after the JFK assassination. How long does it take for the 'informed' left-wing intelligentsia to get the real narratives right, and for us to come to at least a basic shared understanding of what really has been taking place all this time. The lack of valid, strong voices on the left disputing 9-11 truths, as well as disputing so-called 'humanitarian intervention' narratives is what drives so many independents to the Tea-Party. They may be kooks, but there's a good number of them who maintain a valid skepticism towards all mainstream, and faux-liberal/globalist narratives promoted by the World Bank and IMF.
SIOUXROSE wrote:
"My point is that when we wake up, if we try to remain MINDFUL (a Buddhist premise) of the ways our actions harm others, and take precautions, that is a good thing."
We should also be mindful in our discourses to use Right Speech (a Buddhist precept). This involves speaking words that are true and not hurtful, avoiding divisive speech as well as refraining from idle chatter.
SIOUXROSE further wrote:
"I drive my car only when I have to. Yet I don't feel responsible, directly, for the way that oil & auto companies conspired to leave cleaner technologies, along with better fuel efficiency, out of the mix."
Even if you drive your care minimally, you are enabling the petroleum and automotive industries to visit havoc upon the environment. Additionally, many of the products that contribute to your quality of life are derived from the petroleum industry. All condition things are interdependent (another Buddhist maxim).
Therefore, unless you have completely renounced your material possessions and are living a life of strict asceticism, you are equally responsible for the suffering that the economic system of capitalism visits upon humankind.
As you said, all things will pass. All conditioned things lack permanence.(another Buddhist maxim)
Why would an atheist care? After all, there's nothing beyond your bloated ego that you need answer to?
I seldom agree with you or the perspectives you raise, and I certainly don't agree with this idiotic statement:
"Therefore, unless you have completely renounced your material possessions and are living a life of strict asceticism, you are equally responsible for the suffering .."
It is a RIDICULOUS absolute. So unless you're playing on your psy-ops training, to try to fiddle with my "bleeding liberal heart" to induce guilt, you can shove your post where the sun don't shine.
The Buddhists teach an elaborate scale of levels of accountability, and we are certainly not all equal in our respective levels of trespass. Even if I personally dislike you, doesn't mean I hold you with the same contempt as a Dick Cheney. We are held to account based on our levels of complicity, and the power we own relative to how policies are set into motion.
I've been editing all day, so I am not going to take you on further. I am tired. And you require a LOT of energy.
You pass yourself off here as an expert on religion, yet you also espouse atheist beliefs. If you don't see the hypocrisy in that, there's not much I can do for you. When I see a butterfly I KNOW God. That is not something that can be conveyed to those with hearts of stone who expect Creator and Creative forces to adapt to THEIR personal metrics, instead of they, themselves, opening to the Touch and Presence of Grace. Intellect will not get you there... and therein lies the rub.
I've mentioned this before. I was invited to lecture for MENSA and my topic was, "How the intellect BLOCKS the spiritual process." And I was invited back, for a related lecture. Some intellectuals are not intimidated by exploring areas that logic doesn't easily go... nor do they feel the smug need to have solid, concrete answers for things that don't conform to materialized metrics.
Another time, Photius... I've got to meet a major deadline. The way I see it, working on a book for 2 years without any salary = my tithe to humanity. This work is a compilation of the teachings of MANY masters and seers. It's an effort to give back much that was given (in the way of knowledge shared) to me... passing it on, paying it forward. When you, or anyone else who would like to take me down a peg or two, puts years of your life into absolutely unpaid work, then talk to me about guilt, karma, and being responsible for suffering.
You speak of bloated egos. Did you proof read your post? Your post is pregnant with hubris. No one was attempting to "take you down a peg". Your paranoia has no limits.
In your earlier post you referred to the Buddhist virtuous action of "Right Mindfulness". You also wrote about what you perceive to be the shortcomings of the "capitalist consumerism" that pervades our society. I simply pointed out to you that if you are familiar with the Buddhist concept of "interdependence", you should be aware that all things are inter-related. As you yourself are someone who lives within this capitalist consumer society and make use of the various products and services that it provides, you cannot divorce yourself from sharing in our collective responsibility for the various calumnies that this capitalist consumer society brings upon us. Such reasoning should be clear to an enlightened being such as yourself.
Your strident response suggests that my previous comments caused you suffering. I would have expected that someone as spiritually developed and enlightened as you purport to be would not have reacted with such vehemence when someone is attempting to have a reasoned dialog with them.
You ask the question, "Why would an atheist care?" Your question reflects your ignorance of atheist belief and your bias towards atheists. Why would not an atheist care? One does not need to believe that they have to answer to some supernatural deity to be moral and ethical. One does not have to be a spiritualist/religionist to exhibit love, kindness, and compassion towards other human beings. I care for all sentient beings and all creatures.
SIOUXROSE wrote:
"You pass yourself off here as an expert on religion, yet you also espouse atheist beliefs. If you don't see the hypocrisy in that, there's not much I can do for you."
I don't expect you to do anything for me other than be as respectful of my viewpoints as I am of yours, even when we have areas of disagreement. You need to stop taking things so personally.
I'm no expert on religion. I simply have a fund of knowledge of some religious traditions. There is nothing hypocritical in having knowledge of religion and being an atheist. Most atheists come to non-belief based upon a thorough examination of various religious traditions.
I leave you with the following verses from the Dhammapada:
"Phenomena are preceded by mind, led by mind, formed by mind. If one speaks or acts with a polluted mind, suffering follows him, as a wheel follows the foot of a draught-ox."
"Phenomena are preceded by mind, led by mind, formed by mind. If one speaks of acts with a pure mind, happiness follows him, as an ever-present shadow."
What goes on inside of you is much more important in determining whether you're happy or miserable than any outer circumstances of your life. You shouldn't get so upset. Everyone, including me, is not out to get you.
A number of stories about Zen Masters involve a kind of spiritual one-upmanship in conversations between the monks.
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Photius,
You quibble in describing the "son of the barren woman", in a seeming attempt at one-upmanship. Behind Buddhist precepts is the truth"form is void and void is form". Without cognition there is only the moment, and in the moment there is only That which cannot be understood trying to understand Itself via cognition. A futile endeavor by which all experience is made; simply a trance state created by the faculty of thinking. That which Alone Is prattles on.
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Agree the water is a big target of western imperialism here, good comment.
You omitted the organized lynch-mobs every "sports week" supervised by Gadafy's secret police in their Peugeots, the mass public (and televised) hangings in gymnasia from basketball basket poles of anyone suspected of anything by anyone, and the torturing for fun and profit. And the "direct democracy" was about as meaningful as that of the Soviets.
I am not in favor of American interventions in foreign countries but let's not pretend that Gadafy's Libya was just a pleasant socialist state with wonderful beaches and palm trees and really beautiful gardens. It was all that but it was also all of the above. I lived there.
You forgot the one about Gaddafi's son pouring boiling water on and cutting out the tongue of the midwife's husband.
And the Viagra handed out to Gadaffi's troops to rape all the women.
Oh, and don't forget the Iraqi soldiers who threw the babies out of their incubators.
Turn off your TV and stop reading the New York Times, Rainbow.
Clovis: I have no TV and never have watched it. I never see the NYT. I REPEAT: I LIVED IN LIBYA. I also speak, read and write Arabic. And you mis-spelled my pen name.
And you think things will somehow be better in Libya under NATO's goons du jour? And will it have all been worth the tens of thousands dead from the bombing and the foreign arming of the "rebels"? Will it have been worth the foreign theft of the natural resources?
You decide.
And under what auspices did you live in Libya?
"And you think things will somehow be better in Libya under NATO's goons du jour? And will it have all been worth the tens of thousands dead from the bombing and the foreign arming of the "rebels"? Will it have been worth the foreign theft of the natural resources?"
I DID NOT SAY ANY OF THAT! I did not address the American intervention; I was addressing your faulty knowledge of the paradise of Gadafy's Libya. And, while I don't see what my "auspices" of being there had to do with anything, I was a professor at Al-Fateh University in Tripoli and spent "sports week" on the campus where decent and hard-working Libyan professors were rounded up to be beaten, and/or lynched "pour encourager les autres"--all under the supervision of the Mukhabarat--by, among others, some of the students I had been teaching.
Actually, then, I think we agree more than we realize. I have no illusions about Gadaffi and have never in any of these posts said anything that might imply I thought his Libya was a "paradise." I am simply antiwar in 99.9% of all cases, and am interested, in this particular case, in debunking the MSM's lies as to the reasons for this anything but "humanitarian" intervention.
On the other hand, as chance would have it, the real reasons for this neocolonial war have actually to do with some of the more positive of Gadaffi's policies: the African union; the relative sharing of the nation's petroleum wealth; the indepedence from the world financial mafia, etc., and that might be why you think I am somehow pro-Gaddafi, which I am not. My position is simply that the West has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to intervene in any way in such situations, and only increases the pain and death and hardship of all involved when it does intervene.
Surely you don't dispute these points?
Rain: Given these credentials, did you work for, or still work for the MIC?
I'm just laughing my head off, SiouxRose! I have always, until I retired, been a H.S teacher and then university prof.--public schools, at that. The closest I've ever been to either "military" or "industrial" is that, when I still had the arm strength to lift a gun, I was an excellent shot (like my father and grandfather) and enjoyed it. But I never took aim at anything livelier than a painted target. And I've always been, like my father and grandfather, a socialist/social democrat. I did vacation jobs in factories and stuff when I was in college/university, but never anything in the military or to do with the military. I would take up arms against an invader but otherwise I loathe war; I was born in one and I know from my parents and grandparents how terrible it was and I saw myself the devastating results in Europe.
Could be, Rain, but then the CIA likes those who can use the cloak or cover of teacher. I happen to know this from a direct contact; and there's also that item known as "Plausible deniability." You may not be a spook... obviously there's no way for me to tell either way; but thank you for your post.
Well, I didn't become an American until late in life, much to old for the CIA even if I'd had the desire for it. Besides, I was a very good teacher but far too indiscreet to inhabit the cloak and dagger world. As a friend once said, I just open my mouth and toads fall out.
Any troll can SAY that, are you U.S. spook psy-ops?
guitarist wrote:
"Any troll can SAY that, are you U.S. spook psy-ops?"
Why is it that anyone who is new to this forum, or anyone who has an opinion that diverges from some of the views that prevail within this forum accused of being a troll or a psy-ops agent in the absence of any empirical evidence to support such assertions?
Those who make such malicious and unsubstantiated allegations suffer from paranoia. These assertions amount to character assassination and violate generally agreed to norms of civil discourse. Such conduct smacks of McCarthyism.
Please refer to my earlier post on the Buddhist precept of "Right Speech".
Because people who shill for war crimes that causes untold thousands to suffer abject misery are worthy of suspicion ultra p.c. fool! I am an atheist so your "Buddhist" b.s. means nothing to me!
Thank you for your ad hominem reply. You will note that at no point have I insulted you. I'm also no shill for war crimes. Although I am an atheist just like you, I still believe that a number of religions provide moral teaching and instructions that are beneficial, even to atheists. One doesn't have to be a Buddhist or a religionist to recognize that uncivil discourse characterized by personal attacks and character assassination in the absence of any substantiating empirical evidence has no place in discourse between rational individuals.
Yes better to focus on words in the anti war community, than the actual deeds of the murdering imperialists, right, they have the same moral weight don't they? COINTELPRO divide and conquer tactics much?
I have ZERO interest in being "civil" to murdering imperialists or their undercover color revolution spin meisters FUCK THAT!
Your points are well taken, but only far enough to point out that we pick and choose which dictators exist, particularly when oil and banking interests are threatened.
Why lynching in public is any more barbaric than our death penalty (demonstrably wrongly applied numerous times) the CCR of America [gov't approved slave labor with torture as punishment (solitary, etc.) for any refuseniks--] escapes me.
So, even if we go the Quaddafi is evil route (which I must to make this point, as I've never lived there and thus cannot meaningfully contradict you) it leads straight back to our folks, our prison-labor system, and folks we paid torturing, raping and assassinating people worldwide...including children. Which we filmed.
As a torturer and raper of children (check Sy Hersh's article on this matter from about 2002) and enslaver of its own downtrodden, the U.S. has no moral high ground remaining.
We are deep in a hole, and as we look around, slack-jawed, we refuse to see that it is in fact a grave, one in which we've lain, rotting, for decades, the sides beginning to sag and fall in...
I'm not pretending Libya was a paradise, but using oil $ for the public and free education and so on are not to be hooted at. I just wanted the discussion to go beyond the "dictators bad--must go" meme.
Stopping the discussion there concedes way too early--and too much.
Cheers, mate--
Chris Hedges news commentary is enlightening, and I appreciate this discussion.
Good comment, thepuffin.
Bill in Dubuque
Puffin (lovely bird): I agree with you all the way--and then some.
I agree as well. One wonders why it's so important to call someone who drastically improved the lives of his people through diversion of national wealth "insane."
As someone who lived in the Middle East myself for a bit, I also wonder why it's "insane" that someone would suggest marriage between powerhouse families as a means of building peaceful bridges between nations. Not only is this a question of culture-and-not-insanity, but I should hope that someone with Hedges' education would realize that white royalty were still doing this until very recently. In a broad sense people with money still do marry along these lines.
Except for his general conclusion that it's always too late to do anything, I usually like Hedges' columns for the most part. At least he's still anti-imperialst war. We don't get that from a lot of the (phony) left with Obama in the White House.
Exactly!
This just another form of Colonialism so as to reassert control over Libya's resources by the Western powers.
That we can agree on.
I also agree. You can't use the language of the attacker and its methods, and then decry them.
Here’s some info too:
Top rebel military leaders in the 2011 anti-Gadhafi revolt, have long-term relations with the CIA, and the U.S. government knows them well.
One rebel leader is Khalifa Hefta (or Haftar/Hifter when transliterated with corresponding letters from another alphabet), who was appointed chief rebel commander on March 17 2010, and had worked with the CIA for a long-time.
Hefta had been living in suburban Virginia for the past 20 years, within 5 miles of CIA headquarters in Langley Virginia, outside of Washington D.C., with no visible means of financial support.
*(Sources for above: Patrick Martin “Mounting evidence of CIA ties to Libyan rebels” April 4, 2011; and “American media silent on CIA ties to Libya rebel commander” March 30 2011. Martin is a Canadian journalist and veteran Middle East correspondent ; Chris Adams “Libyan rebel leader spent much of past 20 years in suburban Virginia” March 26 2011, ‘Mcclatchy Newspapers’.)
Khalifa Hefta/Haftar, who backed Gadhafi’s 1969 coup takeover of Libya, turned against Gadhafi and became his foe in 1987.
He commanded an anti-Gadhafi army that was in exile outside of Libya.
Hefta was the commander-in-exile of the Libyan National Army (LNA), which is the armed branch of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya (NFSL), which is an exiled opposition group.
Reuters was told on March 24, 2011 that Hefta would head the rebel army. Reuters asked for an interview with Hefta but could not get in contact with him. Reuters also said that the CIA declined to comment.
*(Sources for above: Reuters Africa, April 1, 2011; Derek Henry Flood, editor of Jamestown’s Militant Leadership Monitor publication.)
The CIA and also Saudi Arabia have supported the The National Front for the Salvation of Libya (NSFL).
*(Sources for the above: Richard Keeble “The Secret War Against Libya”; Dirk Vandewalle “A History of Modern Libya”; Bob Woodward “Veil: The secret wars of the CIA”; and John Jacob Nutter “The CIA’s black opts”.
Among others rebels well known to the CIA, are three Libyan rebels who are fighting on the rebel side that’s being supported by the U.S. These three also fought on the same side with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.
*(Sources for the above: Patrick Martin “Mounting evidence of CIA ties to Libyan rebels” April 4, 2011; Charles Levinson “Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels”, April 2, 2011, ‘The Wall Street Journal’.)
Yes I have seen that in quite a few place too.
(Edit for original post:
Khalifa Hefta was appointed chief rebel commander on March 17 2011; not 2010.)
and some more info...
*Jan 20, 2010: U.S. State Dept Ambassador Gene Cretz meeting with Libyan Head of Facitilites and Infrastructure Matuq Mohammed Matuq.
(Source: Wikileaks cable ‘Libyan Head Of Facilities And Infrastructure Welcomes U.S. Business’; original cable date Jan 20, 2010)
... U.S. technology for pumping fresh water from oil fileds could help Libya.
... Libya interested in cooperating with U.S. on this due to desert environment conditions etc.
... Cretz highlights the U.S. - Libya relations moving forward in areas such as military cooperation and consular operations
... Libya interested in U.S. cooperation regarding agriculture, water, education and construction.
... Cretz noted that the upcoming U.S. Trade Mission to Libya, Feb. 20 - 23 2010, would include high level U.S. officials from the Dept. of Commerce, and many representatives of Fortune 500 companies.
*Feb 23, 2010: Head of Libya's Housing and Infrastructure Board Mohamed Abujela al-Mabruk tells U.S. Ambassador about Libya’s 2008 projected investment.
(Source: Wikileaks cable ‘Half of Libya’s Housing and Infrastructure Budget Still Up For Grabs’; original cable date Feb. 23, 2010.)
... U.S. and Libyan officials meet before the Trade Mission.
... Half of Libya’s 2008 projected investment construction projects of $62 billion Libyan dollars ($47 billion USD), had already been awarded mostly to China and Turkey.
... The other half still up for grabs. (Approx another $10 billion Libyan dollars expected to be added in next few years.)
... For foreign company ventures with Libya, Libya gives preference to joint ventures, where no more than 65% share goes to foreign partner, and at least 35% share goes to Libyan partner.
*Feb 20 - 23, 2010: Various committees of U.S. and Business and Libyan representatives held meetings at U.S. Trade Mission to Libya in Tripoli.
(Source: Nicole Lambert-Hale, Tradeology’s official blog of the International Trade Administration, (which is part of the Dept. of Commerce), Feb. 24, 2010. Also of interest in the source is the mindset of the blogger’s post, which really seems to protray and relay part of the U.S. global business caste system in action.)
... U.S. hospital builders and hi-tech health care companies were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Health.
... U.S. military and defense contractors were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Public Security.
... U.S. construction companies were brought in to meet with Libyan Minister of Housing and Utility projects.
... And more etc., over 150 various meetings were set up.