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5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution
He's anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality and anti-education, and that's just the start.
There are few things as maddening in a maddening political season as the warm and fuzzy feelings some progressives evince for Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, the Republican presidential candidate. "The anti-war Republican," people say, as if that's good enough.
But Ron Paul is much, much more than that. He's the anti-Civil-Rights-Act Republican. He's an anti-reproductive-rights Republican. He's a gay-demonizing Republican. He's an anti-public education Republican and an anti-Social Security Republican. He's the John Birch Society's favorite congressman. And he's a booster of the Constitution Party, which has a Christian Reconstructionist platform. So, if you're a member of the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality, anti-education, pro-communist-witch-hunt wing of the progressive movement, I can see how he'd be your guy.
Paul first drew the attention of progressives with his vocal opposition to the invasion of Iraq. Coupled with the Texan's famous call to end the Federal Reserve, that somehow rendered him, in the eyes of the single-minded, the GOP's very own Dennis Kucinich. Throw in Paul's opposition to the drug war and his belief that marriage rights should be determined by the states, and Paul seemed suitable enough to an emotionally immature segment of the progressive movement, a wing populated by people with privilege adequate enough to insulate them from the nasty bits of the Paul agenda. (Tough on you blacks! And you, women! And you, queers! And you, old people without money.)
Ron Paul's anti-war stance, you see, comes not from a cry for peace, but from the deeply held isolationism of the far right. Some may say that, when it comes to ending the slaughter of innocents, the ends justify the means. But, in the case of Ron Paul, the ends involve trading the rights and security of a great many Americans for the promise of non-intervention.
Here's a list -- by no means comprehensive -- of Ron Paul positions and associates that should explain, once and for all, why no self-respecting progressive could possibly sidle up to Paul.
1) Ron Paul on Race
Based on his religious adherence to his purportedly libertarian principles, Ron Paul opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Unlike his son, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., Ron Paul has not even tried to walk back from this position. In fact, he wears it proudly. Here's an excerpt from Ron Paul's 2004 floor speech about the Civil Rights Act, in which he explains why he voted against a House resolution honoring the 40th anniversary of the law:
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society. Federal bureaucrats and judges cannot read minds to see if actions are motivated by racism. Therefore, the only way the federal government could ensure an employer was not violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to ensure that the racial composition of a business's workforce matched the racial composition of a bureaucrat or judge's defined body of potential employees. Thus, bureaucrats began forcing employers to hire by racial quota. Racial quotas have not contributed to racial harmony or advanced the goal of a color-blind society. Instead, these quotas encouraged racial balkanization, and fostered racial strife.
He also said this: "[T]he forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty."
Ron Paul also occasionally appears at events sponsored by the John Birch Society, the segregationist right-wing organization that is closely aligned with the Christian Reconstructionist wing of the religious right.
In 2008, James Kirchick brought to light in the pages of the New Republic a number of newsletters with Paul's name in the title -- Ron Paul's Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report, and The Ron Paul Investment Letter -- that contained baldly racist material, which Paul denied writing.
At NewsOne, Casey Gane-McCalla reported a number of these vitriolic diatribes, including this, on the L.A. riots after the Rodney King verdict: "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began.”
In a related piece, Jon C. Hopwood of Yahoo!'s Associated Content cites a Reuters report on Paul's response to the TNR story, which came in the form of a written statement:
The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts.... I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name.
2) Ron Paul on Reproductive Rights
The sponsor of a bill to overturn Roe v. Wade, Ron Paul's libertarianism does not apply to women, though it does apply to zygotes. His is a no-exceptions anti-abortion position, essentially empowering a rapist to sire a child with a woman of his choosing. Although Paul attributes his stance on abortion to his background as an ob-gyn physician, it should be noted that most ob-gyns are pro-choice, and that Paul's draconian position tracks exactly with that of his Christian Reconstructionist friends.
While mainstream media, when they're not busy ignoring his presidential campaign in favor of the badly trailing former Utah Gov. John Huntsman, invariably focus on Paul's economic libertarianism, Sarah Posner, writing for the Nation, noted that during his appearances leading up to the Iowa straw poll (in which Paul finished second only to Rep. Michele Bachmann, Minn., by a 200-vote margin), "launched into gruesome descriptions of abortion, a departure from his stump speech focused on cutting taxes, shutting down the Federal Reserve, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and repealing the Patriot Act."
3) Ron Paul on LGBT People
While it's true that Paul advocates leaving it to the states to determine whether same-sex marriages should be legally recognized, it's not because he's a friend to LGBT people. Paul's position on same-sex marriage stems from his beliefs about the limits of the federal government's role vis-a-vis his novel interpretation of the Constitution.
In fact, a newsletter called the Ron Paul Poltiical Report, unearthed by Kirchick, shows Paul on a rant against a range of foes and conspiracies, including "the federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS," to which Paul parenthetically adds, "my training as a physician helps me see through this one." The passage, which also portends a "coming race war in our big cities," complains of the "perverted" and "pagan" annual romp for the rich and powerful known as Bohemian Grove, and takes aim at the "demonic" Skull and Bones Society at Yale, not to mention the "Israeli lobby," begins with the paranoid claim, "I've been told not to talk, but these stooges don't scare me."
While Paul denied, in 2001, writing most of the scurrilous material that ran, without attribution, in newsletters that bore his name in the title, this passage, according to Jon Hopwood, bears Paul's byline.
4) Ron Paul Calls Social Security Unconstitutional, Compares it to Slavery
Earlier this year, in an appearance on "Fox News Sunday," Paul declared both Social Security and Medicare to be unconstitutional, essentially saying they should be abolished for the great evil that they are -- just like slavery. Here's the transcript, via ThinkProgress:
["FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST CHRIS] WALLACE: You talk a lot about the Constitution. You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all unconstitutional.
PAUL: Technically, they are. … There’s no authority [in the Constitution]. Article I, Section 8 doesn't say I can set up an insurance program for people. What part of the Constitution are you getting it from? The liberals are the ones who use this General Welfare Clause. … That is such an extreme liberal viewpoint that has been mistaught in our schools for so long and that's what we have to reverse—that very notion that you're presenting.
WALLACE: Congressman, it's not just a liberal view. It was the decision of the Supreme Court in 1937 when they said that Social Security was constitutional under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.
PAUL: And the Constitution and the courts said slavery was legal, too, and we had to reverse that.
5) Ron Paul, Christian Reconstructionists and the John Birch Society
The year 2008 was a telling one in the annals of Ron Paul's ideology. For starters, it was the year in which he delivered the keynote address at the 50th anniversary gala of the John Birch Society, the famous anti-communist, anti-civil-rights organization hatched in the 1950s by North Carolina candy magnate Robert Welch, with the help of Fred Koch, founder of what is now Koch Industries, and a handful of well-heeled friends. The JBS is also remembered for its role in helping to launch the 1964 presidential candidacy of the late Sen. Barry Goldwater, R-Ariz., and for later backing the segregationist Alabama Gov. George Wallace in his 1968 third-party presidential bid.
The semi-secular ideology of the John Birch Society -- libertarian market and fiscal theory laced with flourishes of cultural supremacy -- finds its religious counterpart, as Fred Clarkson noted, in the theonomy of Christian Reconstructionism, the right-wing religious-political school of thought founded by Rousas John Rushdoony. The ultimate goal of Christian Reconstructionists is to reconstitute the law of the Hebrew Bible -- which calls for the execution of adulterers and men who have sex with other men -- as the law of the land. The Constitution Party constitutes the political wing of Reconstructionism, and the CP has found a good friend in Ron Paul.
When Paul launched his second presidential quest in 2008, he won the endorsement of Rev. Chuck Baldwin, a Baptist pastor who travels in Christian Reconstructionist circles, though he is not precisely a Reconstructionist himself (for reasons having to do with his interpretation of how the end times will go down). When Paul dropped out of the race, instead of endorsing Republican nominee John McCain, or even Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr, Paul endorsed Constitution Party nominee Chuck Baldwin (who promised, in his acceptance speech, to uphold the Constitution Party platform, which looks curiously similar to the Ron Paul agenda, right down to the no-exceptions abortion proscription and ending the Fed).
At his shadow rally that year in Minneapolis, held on the eve of the Republican National Convention, Paul invited Constitution Party founder Howard Phillips, a Christian Reconstructionist, to address the crowd of end-the-Fed-cheering post-pubescents. (In his early congressional career, Julie Ingersoll writes in Religion Dispatches, Paul hired as a staffer Gary North, a Christian Reconstructionist leader and Rushdoony's son-in-law.)
At a "Pastor's Forum" at Baldwin's Baptist church in Pensacola, Florida, Paul was asked by a congregant about his lack of support for Israel, which many right-wing Christians support because of the role Israel plays in what is known as premillennialist end-times theology. "Premillennialist" refers to the belief that after Jesus returns, according to conditions on the ground in Israel, the righteous will rule. But Christian Reconstructionists have a different view, believing the righteous must first rule for 1,000 years before Jesus will return.
They also believe, according to Clarkson, "that 'the Christians' are the 'new chosen people of God,' commanded to do what 'Adam in Eden and Israel in Canaan failed to do...create the society that God requires.' Further, Jews, once the 'chosen people,' failed to live up to God's covenant and therefore are no longer God's chosen. Christians, of the correct sort, now are."
Responding to Baldwin's congregant, Paul explained, "I may see it slightly differently than others because I think of the Israeli government as different than what I read about in the Bible. I mean, the Israeli government doesn't happen to be reflecting God's views. Some of them are atheist, and their form of government is not what I would support... And there are some people who interpret the chosen people as not being so narrowly defined as only the Jews -- that maybe there's a broader definition of that."
At the John Birch Society 50th anniversary gala, Ron Paul spoke to another favorite theme of the Reconstructionists and others in the religious right: that of the "remnant" left behind after evil has swept the land. (Gary North's publication is called The Remnant Review.) In a dispatch on Paul's keynote address, The New American, the publication of the John Birch Society, explained, "He claimed that the important role the JBS has played was to nurture that remnant and added, 'The remnant holds the truth together, both the religious truth and the political truth.'"
Is there a progressive willing to join that fold?
Comments
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365 Comments so far
Show AllPaul is just another flavor of RETARDICAN non-thinking.
Gosh, that really smacks of the sort of comments usually made by republicans. It has no substance it makes no arguments it just calls names.
"So?" - dick Cheney
Ron Paul is a f*cking wackjob, Christian nutter. Period.
Just because there are no viable candidates doesn't mean you HAVE to support someone or anyone in the titillating kabuki fascist horse-race that is our election process.
If no viable candidates run, then go for a walk or tend your garden on election day.
Or cast a protest vote. I'm still voting for Bradley Manning. :-)
I hope we'll hear more on this from Ralph Nader. This is what Nader said in January: the progressive-libertarian alliance is "the most exciting new political dynamic" in the US today, because both groups stand against corporatists who believe government should be run in the interests of corporations.
"I believe in coalitions," Rep. Paul echoed. "They talk about we need more bipartisanship, and I say we have too much bipartisanship because the bipartisanship we have here in Washington endorses corporatism."
Paul added that he agreed with Nader on a host of issues, such as cutting the US military's budget, ending undeclared US wars overseas, restoring civil liberties and civil rights by dumping from the Patriot Act, and withdrawing from the NAFTA and World Trade Organization agreements.
"I think we should come together and work together, and I think we can," he said, noting that the coalition had previously worked on deficit financing solutions.
Rep. Paul and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), the most conservative and most liberal members of their respective chambers, joined forces last session to fight for an audit of the Federal Reserve, a private institution that handles America's monetary policy, which Nader explained is under no legal control of Congress.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/22/ron-paul-ralph-nader-agree-on-progressive-libertarian-alliance/
Nader is what the Paulites who claim to espouse the progressive ideas need to rally around. One thing I must say about this Paul and Nader thing is this. Did you notice that Nader gives Paul a lot of credit on where he agrees but we seldom hear Paul giving Nader any credit? If I were Nader, I would feel not only insulted for being left out like that but I would also question Ron Paul on his spending too much time helping the right while giving lip service at best for the left leaning libertarians.
I think what is the saddest is that the duopoly has so controlled the process that third parties can't win, or even run seriously. Nader couldn't get into the debates, FOX kept Ron Paul out of their NH debate. Otherwise, we would see something resembling a Paul/Nader ticket which would run on consensus issues.
"FOX kept Ron Paul out of their NH debate."
I recall some Democratic Party supporters interpreting that as a sign that even Faux Noose considers Paul too extreme. The duopoly has also had their share of success in brainwashing the voters it seems.
"Otherwise, we would see something resembling a Paul/Nader ticket which would run on consensus issues."
That reminds me of what BeForkids said about creating a Main Street Party that would run mainly on issues related to economy, environment, foreign policy, and other important issues but would leave out the social issues until something could be worked out for that party's platform.
By the way, glad to see you again. :-)
Max, Ralph isn't running but I voted for him twice, knowing he'dd only get 5% or less of the vote. The advantage of Paul is he could actually win, ACTUALLY stopping war is worth 100 times what ultra p.c. liberal sanctimony is IMO.
Paul isn't pretending to be anything than what he is, a pretty boilerplate Libertarian, shrug.
And actually there is an interview of Paul and Nader where the praise in mutual.
Great post!
Thank you!
Bless Nader for his service to the nation, but his analysis is as unrealistic as his hope that a coterie of filthy rich will rescue us.
Good post.
sj
Do the "host of issues" include gov regulations of private business?
Nope.
Again do note Nader doesn't suggest VOTING for a republican or Ron Paul as so many Ron Paul supporters insist, because Ron Paul is still a right wing authoritarian only 'leaning' libertarian and he merely suggests an alliance amongst politicians from a "convergence of liberals, progressives and libertarian conservatives in the wake of a worsening financial crisis and dogged partisanship that's put the government into gridlock."
"Longtime American politics gadfly Ralph Nader, a man of many ideas almost diametrically opposed by most libertarian conservatives" doesn't suggest or support voting for right libertarian leaning republican candidate Ron Paul anywhere that I'm of..
I have no disagreements with this article but as much as we need to hit hard on Ron Paul's dark side, we also need to look up to where Ron Paul agrees with progressives and ask ourselves why the Democratic Party can't even break even on those issues alone. As it is, I neither support nor fully oppose Ron Paul. The Ron Paul zealots need to pipe down and come clean on Ron Paul's controversial stands on a lot of positions. The rest who are strongly opposed to Ron Paul need to calm down and explain what it is that they actually hate about Ron Paul and tell what they think about Ron Paul on his positions where progressives and he agree on. I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul unless there were no other candidates besides him and Obama on the ballot given Obama's tendency to cave in to social "conservatives" on everything.
Max: I find your posts almost always disingenous. Your patronizing nonsense, reflecting a most superficial understanding (if that) of feminism, is one main area; but here, too, this crap about "calm down" is exactly the tone used by right wing "authorities" to make them seem like the "in control" adults... even when all of their positions are psychopathic!
Anyone with half a brain, who's paying attention should not be told or asked to calm down. The nation has been looted, the criminals are IN charge, the elections are a scam, the for-profit interests are driving an (perhaps unintended) agenda of global ecocide, which also translates into genocide, and NONE of these issues deserve or warrant a "calm" response.
It's pure psy-ops to translate the nature of commentary based on the (reflected) attitude of a poster. Women like to emote, and that's why so many have been pharmaceutically "adjusted." Can't have a corrupt status quo if people start EMOTING what they really feel. No, let's all just be calm, as the ship of state simulates the Titanic, and pretend it's ALL okay. "Don't worry, be happy."
MANY of us have related what we don't accept about Ron Paul, as did this article. So your attempt to cover all that up, and subliminally ask, "Gee? What are your positions really about?" is a clear attempt at obfuscation. You often come in here playing the ROLE of neutral observer, while most of your comments plant strong subliminal messages that totally conform to the existing status quo. I believe that IS your purpose here.
I see through you.
Sioux, I have no idea about your personal misjudgments and misunderstandings but your impulsive reactive reply is not worthy of much discussion. Right now, you're taking your minor disagreements that you had with me on feminism too personally. If you had gone back and read what I had written, you would have found out that we have more to agree on than you're giving credit for. You would have also found out that in no way am I supportive of the status quo. Did you read yesterday's response that I gave you to your response to my post on feminism?
When I said calm down, I didn't say "don't worry, be happy" though I can see where you are getting that misinterpretation from. No, I'm not saying not to be outraged. Do be outraged and let it be known what's wrong. I just recommended that on top of that, both sides need to calm down and do their best to discuss their agreements and disagreements with Paul. Is it too much to ask that we try to organize and unite instead of getting into petty insults against other people's intelligence just because of personal disagreements? I think that you can do better than that and you know very well that we used to have a lot of great conversations together even on things we disagreed on. What happened? The Sioux Rose I used to know and have cordial conversations even on matters that we would disagree on is different from the one I'm talking to. I miss that Sioux Rose dearly.
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Ron Paul is very good on just two important issues: he's an anti-imperialist, and he's anti-federal reserve.
The author is correct though, he is too bad on too many other issues to even want him on part of the ticket.
And no offense, but he's a bit old for the Presidency.
Of course Ron Pauls' politics have a dark side. Stan's purpose mirrors her entire brief career at Alternet and probably her entire career as an operative. Her purpose is to pull anti-war Dems and "progressives" back into the voting fold of the Democratic party by constantly playing the "look how crazy the other side is!" game that almost everyone else is doing.
Every liberal or left-leaning centrist I know understands full well that Paul isn't the second coming of fucking Trotsky. Their point in supporting Paul--at least rhetorically--is less about Paul than the abysmal state fo the Democratic party that they don't even have a single candidate who would oppose resource wars and the police state. Stan knows this, but doesn't generally give a shit. "look at the Tea Party! they're crazy! vote Obama...." is her schtick.
I remember when mmckinl, myself, and some others would criticize Stan when she'd get her articles written in such haphazard manners only to get bonked by the wrecking crew of Quannah and her minions. On some of the articles by Stan from the past, you'll see quite a lot of "comment removed" entries although I was informed by an outsider that a rogue "moderator" by the name of "PlayaSlaya" wrecked up and did his/her own personal censoring before it got removed. I was shown a snapshot of the logs and man was it very disturbing. Thousands of good posts getting marked for deletion must have woken up the Alternet crew. I'm told that DISQUS supports undeleting but the site is sort of a wreck on top of recent mysterious disappearances getting reported. I don't know if you noticed but there were even a couple of good comments rogue flagged by the Paulites.
While I generally don't get into the minutiae of the personal dramas on message boards, the problem at Alternet is an editorial one. I think Hazen made a conscious decision to play for more cash from establishment liberals who, frankly, are the ones with deeper pockets. That effort several years ago has intensified with many of the old HuffPo Dems being up for grabs.
In the end, these sites are still about making money--especially Alternet--and it's wise to never lose sight of that basic fundamental.
I've also concluded that sites like these are probably atthe point where they'd just as soon have their message boards go away. Too many lefties mucking up the gameplan...:)
I can't say that Alternet is alone on that. They're not Huffpost but they would do their progressive audience a better service of posting articles written by Ralph Nader and more like him. Sigh, I guess this is why I still think this site trumps Alternet on some given days.
Running Nader articles with any frequency would directly conflict with Alternet's mission, which is to secure votes for the Democratic party every election cycle. Criticism is only allowed during the official criticism period. but when it's time to hit those voting booths, Alternet's no less of a mobilizer than most places dominated by liberals.
Interesting: This isn't Alternet.
Are we getting a bunch of mass-produced political spam on Common Dreams that was originally all written for Alternet?
The article is on Alternet too and the number of comments above 500 ! These two sites will share a lot of the same articles. Once in a while, an article written by an Alternet staffer, usually Joshua Holland, will make it to this site. I'm surprised that Stan's article made it here but it's ok with me since I go after content like most posters here.
If my schtick is to preserve the earth's waterways, I can still endorse, or not endorse a candidate. That position exists apart from what persons do or don't do. I don't know if this author's motive is to pull anti-war Dems away from Paul's would-be camp. It would seem to me that to the extent the Democratic party was once composed of minorities, women, and union workers... that NONE of Paul's positions would be particularly attractive to persons from these groups, if they are paying attention.
Perhaps it's YOU who has the agenda, by suggesting that if we're against war, then Paul is the only viable choice. So sell out your principles, Ladies, prepare to succumb and become barefoot and pregnant, and give this nut job your vote.
As I've said before, very few men in this forum (I can count them on one hand) really GET IT about sexism. That empathy deficit you read so much about is on full view in these threads whenever the topic is about women, rape, or the lack of political representation had by women here and in foreign lands. Many are so smug in their righteous presumption that it's all been taken care of, and women should just shut up, stop bitching, and get the coffee... and let the MEN (or those women who have learned to act like and emulate men) take care of things...
Paul is not what we want or need. His purported concern for life (Right to Life) is about control of the female reproductive tract to make sure that families are kept in patriarchal, father-knows-best form.
i'm assuming this gift is for my post.
there are times, SR, when rationality is a useful tool. this may have been one of those times.
i don't want to say enough to get sucked into the high school vortex some of you insist on occupying, but since you pretty much called me a sexist for reasons unknown to pretty much anybody, I think it best to respond in this way:
I do not support Ron Paul as a candidate. I do not vote anymore, so I don't give a shit about *any* candidate. Still with me?
BUT, I do not appreciate fake journalists running hatchet attacks like this essay for the purpose of drawing voters away from seriously reconsidering their party loyalties. This is *my* agenda, since you raise the issue, and always has been .
Stan wants you to have the reaction you do primarily to consider voting for right wing democrats inthe next cycle. That's her job; that's why she gets paid.
This is not to say, as I point out, that Ron Paul is a "good" politician. He's not. On the other hand, he's noticeably better than most Democrats that can get through the vetting process for the presidency (which Paul himself will not--again). I expect journalists claiming that title to be honest in comparing their targets to other targets, and Stan--like so many anymore--does not. Her street is always one way, and that way is DNC Blvd.
As for the rest of your projections about men in general, I will leave you to them. Enjoy!
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Yeah, I don't disagree with the political angle of your point, drone.
Nor I yours. A president Paul should make me cringe. But if the guy did only two things that he has consistently supported for years, our country and the world would be vastly improved, and that's an unpleasant fact. I don't like this, either, because it tells me just how few choices we will ever have anymore until we topple this sytem.
On the other hand, if you're a die hard Paul opponent, you shouldn't break any kind of a sweat. He would *never* get out of the primaries alive. Power fears that guy, and for good reason.
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"But if the guy did only two things that he has consistently supported for years, our country and the world would be vastly improved, and that's an unpleasant fact."
Perhaps, but even so it would have a relatively short shelf-life. Without understanding the true perils of capitalism and the ecological destruction that it causes, the future of the earth as we know it for succeeding generations is in great danger. Paul does not understand these issues, and therefore would do very little to address them.
We agree completely here. Long term, the core problem is capitalism and the industrial revolution itself (which is what made Communism so problematic, too).
But no candidate is going to challenge that, right? They'd never get out of a local caucus in one piece. I don't think you could be anti-capitalist and so much as get on a school board anymore.
Obviously if I were able to choose a politician more closely representing my own political philosophy, then Paul would be a non-subject,a s he would for most people talking about him right now. But that's not our choice and won't be for the forseeable future.
Too OLD??????
He parts his hair on the wrong side, too.
sj
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I could care less how Ron Paul's hair's parted. It is not ageist or discriminatory to say that he's "too old" for the job of the Presidency. Being a really good president (which we "really" could use right now!) is a VERY demanding & stressful job. I'm not voting for anyone that turns 81 before a first term is complete. That's the last thing we need is a president keeling over in the middle of a term, or having memory issues like Reagan in his second term. I voted for Nader in 2008, but I've reached my end for voting for Ralph to be president. He'll be 82 in 2016, god willing he gets that far.
Dems are definitely vote herding. Never thought I'd see that hack Stan published on this site. We still have over a year to go, and already the pros are out doing their thing.
One more Stan piece, CD, and no more cash from me. She's a professional DLC operative.
Nobody's perfect. What is best for one may not be for another. People have different tastes. Vive la difference! That's why we need direct democracy. It lets every person and every segment of the population decide what is best for them through cheap, safe, ongoing high and low tech initiatives and referendums.
For example, one segment may decide to save their zygotes and another may decide not to. One may decide to use recreational drugs and another not to. One to allow prostitution and another not to. One diverse community may have different schools of thought, making life more interesting.
People cannot impose "one size fits all" laws in most cases where morality is involved. The tradeoff would be: "we will not criminalize your morality (as in the case of abortion) and you will not criminalize ours (as in the case of polygamy)". Or "I'll leave you alone to live your life as you see fit as long as you don't hurt me or the environment we share".
Direct democracy is completely decentralized and evolves with the times.
The only Presidential candidate with direct democracy in his platform is Harry Braun:
https://braun2012.us/Home_Page.html
ezeflyer,
You're description of direct democracy is not consistent with Harry Braun's.
That's MY description which varies with different people, though the object remains the same. I simply said Harry Braun is the only candidate that includes direct democracy in his platform. Do you find that his description negates mine or vis?
ezeflyer,
Well, I wouldn't necessarily use the word "negates."
Harry Braun is much more specific about what sort of direct democracy he would implement at the federal government level. Best I can tell Braun's view of direct democracy includes elected representatives in Congress who present legislation, executive orders and even judicial decisions to the people for approval or disapproval in national referendums. With respect to legislation, presumably this means these representatives would draft and mark up the legislation before presenting it to the people. But I haven't seen where Braun specifically says that.
The Daily Iowan published Braun’s proposed U. S. Constitutional amendment text for his national referendum based direct democracy. I had some serious problems with the proposed text, which I do not have the energy to discuss right now. I did, however, start to re-write the text of the amendment in ways that I thought would make it more acceptable. I am a glutton for punishment, I guess.
Your descriptions of direct democracy generally focus less on how direct democracy would actually work and more on what you believe will be the benefits of direct democracy.
I don’t think that many of the benefits of direct democracy you often describe will in fact come from the implementation of Braun’s approach to direct democracy.
That’s why I said, that your description of direct democracy was not consistent with Harry Braun's.
I do think that it is important to attempt to consider the specifics of how direct democracy might be implemented at the federal government level, the state government level, and community / local government level and to consider what benefits and problems implementing direct democracy at these various levels might produce.
In some of my previous responses to your posts I have primarily focused on direct democracy at the local and state government levels in this regard.
Anyway, I am growing tired and still have plenty to do before the day is over.
Take care.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The Swiss are one good example of direct democracy. Americans can talk about DD, but having little or no experience in it, we can only speculate. There is lots of information and links on this site on how direct democracy is evolving that can give us insights:
http://ni4d.us/
Wow! Ron Paul scares Obama and his supporters! Never thought I'd see them admit it and reduce themselves to fear mongering to ward him off.
"Paul explained, "I may see it slightly differently than others because I think of the Israeli government as different than what I read about in the Bible."
I would have to agree with Mr. Paul. The bible they read must be different from the one I read. I also have a problem with Israel's "anti-prostelizing" laws.
http://www.amfi.org/heartbeat/hbmay98.htm
Progressives MUST be anti-war, but they MUST also be pro-people, and Ron Paul certainly isn't. By those criteria, Obama is a Barbarian, as is every other candidate. Perhaps we should rate candidates by their degree of Barbarity. When using that, we see Paul rise far above Obama and his challengers. Paul on his own cannot change many of the socio-cultural laws meant to ensure greater equality because of their constitutional linkage--congress would have to pass numerous amendments and those would have to be ratified by 3/4s of the states. So, the "threat" he allegedly poses in those areas is a Red Herring. Obama has already shown that he's a far greater menace to Freedom than was Bush, Clinton, and Bush/Reagan--Obama is clearly Pro-War, Anti-People, Anti-Freedom (except for corporadoes and their bankster allies), and Ant-Rule-of-Law. I don't think Paul is as horrific as the writer and many commentators espouse. That the Oligarchy and its media don't like Paul ought to make some think a little more about the nature of where we are and the very visible lack of any real Progressive ready/willing to step forward and challenge Obama. Yes, I'm writing about--perhaps even promoting--Lesserevilism as the most viable choice for those unwilling to support the Greens. Polling shows the public wants an end to the neverending wars, while Obama escalates same. If just that one major aspect of Neoliberalism could be ended, that would be a great victory over the most Barbaric ideology since fascism. Of course, we now have a president who promised Change and reneged; although he never promised to end the wars; rather he promised to escalate them. So Paul could campaign to end the wars and shrink the Empire and later reneg, which I think is the greatest problem his candidacy presents.
"Progressives" who support Ron Paul have never, ever been progressive at all, as this fact-based article makes clear. Paul's stances are not hidden by anyone except those who wish to fool people, and libertarian zealots are certainly all for that (eg, the world's smallest political quiz).
If a self-proclaimed Leftist supports Paul, well, that person just isn't worth listening to at all. You can't support Paul's unimpeded free market capitalism and be on the Left, not even a little bit. At that point, you're hanging off the edge of right-wing economics and should be wasting your time with Von Mises and Hayek.
How can Paul be seen as a promoter of Neoliberalism when he's adamantly against its Imperialism--both military and financial/trade?
karlof, I didn't mention neoliberalism at all, so I'm not really sure why you're bringing up this strawman. Are you confusing free market capitalism with neoliberalism or are you saying that libertarians don't believe in free market capitalism?
Whatever the case, I didn't mention neoliberalism, nor did I allude to anything that libertarians disagree with.
The Oligarchy's ideology is Neoliberalism. You allude that Paul would advance their cause. The question I'm asking is, if he's anti-Neoliberalism, then how can he advance the Oligarchy's interests?
I'm afraid I still don't understand. I don't see where I said anything like Paul would advance the cause of neoliberalism. Perhaps you could quote me in order to clear this up. I'm not trying to be flippant here, either. I genuinely have no idea how you're getting that message from my original post. Also, I notice that you ignored my question to you.
Do the Oligarchs have an ideology? I'm inclined to believe that the
oligarchs only have a strong will-to-power. They believe they want to own the world
& everything & everyone in it. They will use whatever tool (an ideology, a corrupted gov't, an NGO, etc...) they deem necessary, to keep themselves "in the driver's seat". They, nowadays, organize themselves as various houses-of-finance (the inter-alpha group is the primary one, AT PRESENT). They have spent centuries maneuvering themselves into a position of "command & control" of all major nations' finances, making "the peoples' treasuries" impotent. They recognize their "flanks" are vulnerable to the assaults from nation-states that are organized as democratic republics ("of, by, for the people"). They financed the libertarian movements (the main ones) to provide cover for dismantling this tool of government, wielded so effectively, by the democratic state, in the interests of commoners. They know "free markets" are unlawful, amoral,markets where the strong (them) will override the weak (us), and control us. This is how libertarianism advances their cause (of undisrupted, undisputed, oligarchy). They would probably prefer "governance" by private teams of managers, acting as their agents of course, who only stand for "job interviews" (nevermind what the "serfs" think). This is how I grasp our present situation in the entire world.
RP is an extreme capitalist.
Are you going to make the argument that the oligarchy is not extremely pro capitalism?