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5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution
He's anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality and anti-education, and that's just the start.
There are few things as maddening in a maddening political season as the warm and fuzzy feelings some progressives evince for Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, the Republican presidential candidate. "The anti-war Republican," people say, as if that's good enough.
But Ron Paul is much, much more than that. He's the anti-Civil-Rights-Act Republican. He's an anti-reproductive-rights Republican. He's a gay-demonizing Republican. He's an anti-public education Republican and an anti-Social Security Republican. He's the John Birch Society's favorite congressman. And he's a booster of the Constitution Party, which has a Christian Reconstructionist platform. So, if you're a member of the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality, anti-education, pro-communist-witch-hunt wing of the progressive movement, I can see how he'd be your guy.
Paul first drew the attention of progressives with his vocal opposition to the invasion of Iraq. Coupled with the Texan's famous call to end the Federal Reserve, that somehow rendered him, in the eyes of the single-minded, the GOP's very own Dennis Kucinich. Throw in Paul's opposition to the drug war and his belief that marriage rights should be determined by the states, and Paul seemed suitable enough to an emotionally immature segment of the progressive movement, a wing populated by people with privilege adequate enough to insulate them from the nasty bits of the Paul agenda. (Tough on you blacks! And you, women! And you, queers! And you, old people without money.)
Ron Paul's anti-war stance, you see, comes not from a cry for peace, but from the deeply held isolationism of the far right. Some may say that, when it comes to ending the slaughter of innocents, the ends justify the means. But, in the case of Ron Paul, the ends involve trading the rights and security of a great many Americans for the promise of non-intervention.
Here's a list -- by no means comprehensive -- of Ron Paul positions and associates that should explain, once and for all, why no self-respecting progressive could possibly sidle up to Paul.
1) Ron Paul on Race
Based on his religious adherence to his purportedly libertarian principles, Ron Paul opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Unlike his son, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., Ron Paul has not even tried to walk back from this position. In fact, he wears it proudly. Here's an excerpt from Ron Paul's 2004 floor speech about the Civil Rights Act, in which he explains why he voted against a House resolution honoring the 40th anniversary of the law:
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society. Federal bureaucrats and judges cannot read minds to see if actions are motivated by racism. Therefore, the only way the federal government could ensure an employer was not violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to ensure that the racial composition of a business's workforce matched the racial composition of a bureaucrat or judge's defined body of potential employees. Thus, bureaucrats began forcing employers to hire by racial quota. Racial quotas have not contributed to racial harmony or advanced the goal of a color-blind society. Instead, these quotas encouraged racial balkanization, and fostered racial strife.
He also said this: "[T]he forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty."
Ron Paul also occasionally appears at events sponsored by the John Birch Society, the segregationist right-wing organization that is closely aligned with the Christian Reconstructionist wing of the religious right.
In 2008, James Kirchick brought to light in the pages of the New Republic a number of newsletters with Paul's name in the title -- Ron Paul's Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report, and The Ron Paul Investment Letter -- that contained baldly racist material, which Paul denied writing.
At NewsOne, Casey Gane-McCalla reported a number of these vitriolic diatribes, including this, on the L.A. riots after the Rodney King verdict: "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began.”
In a related piece, Jon C. Hopwood of Yahoo!'s Associated Content cites a Reuters report on Paul's response to the TNR story, which came in the form of a written statement:
The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts.... I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name.
2) Ron Paul on Reproductive Rights
The sponsor of a bill to overturn Roe v. Wade, Ron Paul's libertarianism does not apply to women, though it does apply to zygotes. His is a no-exceptions anti-abortion position, essentially empowering a rapist to sire a child with a woman of his choosing. Although Paul attributes his stance on abortion to his background as an ob-gyn physician, it should be noted that most ob-gyns are pro-choice, and that Paul's draconian position tracks exactly with that of his Christian Reconstructionist friends.
While mainstream media, when they're not busy ignoring his presidential campaign in favor of the badly trailing former Utah Gov. John Huntsman, invariably focus on Paul's economic libertarianism, Sarah Posner, writing for the Nation, noted that during his appearances leading up to the Iowa straw poll (in which Paul finished second only to Rep. Michele Bachmann, Minn., by a 200-vote margin), "launched into gruesome descriptions of abortion, a departure from his stump speech focused on cutting taxes, shutting down the Federal Reserve, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and repealing the Patriot Act."
3) Ron Paul on LGBT People
While it's true that Paul advocates leaving it to the states to determine whether same-sex marriages should be legally recognized, it's not because he's a friend to LGBT people. Paul's position on same-sex marriage stems from his beliefs about the limits of the federal government's role vis-a-vis his novel interpretation of the Constitution.
In fact, a newsletter called the Ron Paul Poltiical Report, unearthed by Kirchick, shows Paul on a rant against a range of foes and conspiracies, including "the federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS," to which Paul parenthetically adds, "my training as a physician helps me see through this one." The passage, which also portends a "coming race war in our big cities," complains of the "perverted" and "pagan" annual romp for the rich and powerful known as Bohemian Grove, and takes aim at the "demonic" Skull and Bones Society at Yale, not to mention the "Israeli lobby," begins with the paranoid claim, "I've been told not to talk, but these stooges don't scare me."
While Paul denied, in 2001, writing most of the scurrilous material that ran, without attribution, in newsletters that bore his name in the title, this passage, according to Jon Hopwood, bears Paul's byline.
4) Ron Paul Calls Social Security Unconstitutional, Compares it to Slavery
Earlier this year, in an appearance on "Fox News Sunday," Paul declared both Social Security and Medicare to be unconstitutional, essentially saying they should be abolished for the great evil that they are -- just like slavery. Here's the transcript, via ThinkProgress:
["FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST CHRIS] WALLACE: You talk a lot about the Constitution. You say Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are all unconstitutional.
PAUL: Technically, they are. … There’s no authority [in the Constitution]. Article I, Section 8 doesn't say I can set up an insurance program for people. What part of the Constitution are you getting it from? The liberals are the ones who use this General Welfare Clause. … That is such an extreme liberal viewpoint that has been mistaught in our schools for so long and that's what we have to reverse—that very notion that you're presenting.
WALLACE: Congressman, it's not just a liberal view. It was the decision of the Supreme Court in 1937 when they said that Social Security was constitutional under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.
PAUL: And the Constitution and the courts said slavery was legal, too, and we had to reverse that.
5) Ron Paul, Christian Reconstructionists and the John Birch Society
The year 2008 was a telling one in the annals of Ron Paul's ideology. For starters, it was the year in which he delivered the keynote address at the 50th anniversary gala of the John Birch Society, the famous anti-communist, anti-civil-rights organization hatched in the 1950s by North Carolina candy magnate Robert Welch, with the help of Fred Koch, founder of what is now Koch Industries, and a handful of well-heeled friends. The JBS is also remembered for its role in helping to launch the 1964 presidential candidacy of the late Sen. Barry Goldwater, R-Ariz., and for later backing the segregationist Alabama Gov. George Wallace in his 1968 third-party presidential bid.
The semi-secular ideology of the John Birch Society -- libertarian market and fiscal theory laced with flourishes of cultural supremacy -- finds its religious counterpart, as Fred Clarkson noted, in the theonomy of Christian Reconstructionism, the right-wing religious-political school of thought founded by Rousas John Rushdoony. The ultimate goal of Christian Reconstructionists is to reconstitute the law of the Hebrew Bible -- which calls for the execution of adulterers and men who have sex with other men -- as the law of the land. The Constitution Party constitutes the political wing of Reconstructionism, and the CP has found a good friend in Ron Paul.
When Paul launched his second presidential quest in 2008, he won the endorsement of Rev. Chuck Baldwin, a Baptist pastor who travels in Christian Reconstructionist circles, though he is not precisely a Reconstructionist himself (for reasons having to do with his interpretation of how the end times will go down). When Paul dropped out of the race, instead of endorsing Republican nominee John McCain, or even Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr, Paul endorsed Constitution Party nominee Chuck Baldwin (who promised, in his acceptance speech, to uphold the Constitution Party platform, which looks curiously similar to the Ron Paul agenda, right down to the no-exceptions abortion proscription and ending the Fed).
At his shadow rally that year in Minneapolis, held on the eve of the Republican National Convention, Paul invited Constitution Party founder Howard Phillips, a Christian Reconstructionist, to address the crowd of end-the-Fed-cheering post-pubescents. (In his early congressional career, Julie Ingersoll writes in Religion Dispatches, Paul hired as a staffer Gary North, a Christian Reconstructionist leader and Rushdoony's son-in-law.)
At a "Pastor's Forum" at Baldwin's Baptist church in Pensacola, Florida, Paul was asked by a congregant about his lack of support for Israel, which many right-wing Christians support because of the role Israel plays in what is known as premillennialist end-times theology. "Premillennialist" refers to the belief that after Jesus returns, according to conditions on the ground in Israel, the righteous will rule. But Christian Reconstructionists have a different view, believing the righteous must first rule for 1,000 years before Jesus will return.
They also believe, according to Clarkson, "that 'the Christians' are the 'new chosen people of God,' commanded to do what 'Adam in Eden and Israel in Canaan failed to do...create the society that God requires.' Further, Jews, once the 'chosen people,' failed to live up to God's covenant and therefore are no longer God's chosen. Christians, of the correct sort, now are."
Responding to Baldwin's congregant, Paul explained, "I may see it slightly differently than others because I think of the Israeli government as different than what I read about in the Bible. I mean, the Israeli government doesn't happen to be reflecting God's views. Some of them are atheist, and their form of government is not what I would support... And there are some people who interpret the chosen people as not being so narrowly defined as only the Jews -- that maybe there's a broader definition of that."
At the John Birch Society 50th anniversary gala, Ron Paul spoke to another favorite theme of the Reconstructionists and others in the religious right: that of the "remnant" left behind after evil has swept the land. (Gary North's publication is called The Remnant Review.) In a dispatch on Paul's keynote address, The New American, the publication of the John Birch Society, explained, "He claimed that the important role the JBS has played was to nurture that remnant and added, 'The remnant holds the truth together, both the religious truth and the political truth.'"
Is there a progressive willing to join that fold?
Comments
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365 Comments so far
Show AllMy personal take..
He's the deal Adele: Obama is going to lose. He's going to lose big. Really big. Really, really big. And what you're going to get is most likely Perry – or Palin.
All the scare tactics in the world won't change my own position on the mass violence and death made possible by Obama/Bush II. I'm tired of it. I'm sick of it. Paul will actually do it. He's got my backing.
If it means (and it most likely won't) that gay and lesbians might have to ramp up their own fights here later, then fine. I'll be glad to stand by them should that occur. To not end these wars on the basis of your skewed theory is not gonna cut it. If it means a fight over SS money, then fine, a lot of people will fight that, too.
End these wars. Bring the troops home and end the Fed and (finally) heavily scrutinize these TBTF financial institutions.
You have a choice: Perry, Palin or Paul. One one will end the pain and suffering and expense and forever war. We know who and he's got my support.
Right now, my own priority is not to change the planet's biology or anything else. Its to End the Wars.
What would you replace the Fed with?
A quick notice at every piece of paper currency in the world shows that every sovereign country has a central bank of some sort - although most are directly controlled by their governments - not quasi-private like the Fed. Do you know that Ron Paul would simply replace the functions of the Fed with the ever less accountable big private banks?
And, as far as ending the wars, and more importantly, dismantling the MIC, as soon as Ron Paul's libertarian capitalist friends remind him of the MIC's importance to investors and the bourgeois professional class - who make up the ranks of the "libertarian" movement, he will back down on all this pseudo-pacifism, which really hides a philosophy of isolationism, and US-exceptionalist, anti-internationalism.
Uh, one of the most popular libertarian websites around is called ANTIWAR.COM and is run by a gay man, Justin Raimondo who has consistently opposed all wars. it has a huige readership.
Yeah, and Hitler had some Jewish friends.
You may be right
That is not true. He would replace the fed with a currency created by the federal government itself as it is empowered to do in the constitution. If he had his way, this currency would be backed by a limited commodity, most likely gold, which would make it impossible for the federal government to fund imperialistic enterprises like they do today. It would also make ponzi schemes like social security a lot harder to pull off.
The social security thing I know is a hard one to swallow for people with compassion or dire financial circumstances but the fact is that it is broken and really could never fund itself. Unless it could become a true insurance system where only those who need it cash in on it (which it has never been), it will just rob the young more and more to give less and less to the old.
The Fed is quasi-private? In what way do you mean by "quasi"? They ARE private, but super-duper private, as in refusing to be audited. Maybe what you are referring to is their extraordinary control over our government's economic policy, and it ain't good.
Moonpie states that "You have a choice: Perry, Palin, or Paul". Unless the Democrats and the Republicans have forced Moonpie to do their bidding through some sort of mind control then I submit that one does indeed have a choice but it does not have to be restricted to either the Democrats or the Republicans.
In last year's presidential election I apparently performed a radical act by voting for the [gasp!] socialist candidate. One can either do that or write in one's own candidate come election time in 2012. But at the very least one should not subscribe to the bizarre and totally inaccurate notion that the only choice an American has is to vote for either a Democrat or a Republican
"the idea that "the powers that be" would EVER allow anyone to become president (or even a serious contender for the nomination of either business party) who would then "end the Fed" and "stop the wars" is just absolutely comic."
Aye, there's the rub...
How about ventura and mcgovern???
They were presidents?? When?
Thank you for this, Rick. The idea, supported by a lot of people here, that we have to somehow Find a Candidate for President that We Can Vote For, is missing the point. We have to change the System and obsessing over elections is just playing their game. No, I don't have any quick-and-dirty suggestions for how to overthrow the system -- I'm sorry -- but most discussion of presidential (and congressional) elections seems to me a waste of time. Frankly I really don't care whether Ron Paul (or Obama or Barbara Lee or even Ralph Nader) "has your vote".
http://crackinhistory.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/what-good-are-elections/
(That said, I was fooled by the official history books and the official news, etc. for 50 years, somehow imagining all along that US elections were the place where our "democracy" really played itself out.)
What sewra said!
Like i always say:
Hey, i've got a great idea! Let's spend all our time and energy worrying and arguing about who to vote for, and vilifying each other for doing it wrong!
We do NOT need a candidate, a party, an election. We need to take control of our own damn lives and communities! Easy? Hell no! Sitting around pissing on each other about candidates and parties, now that's easy! Great, let's do that!
agreed --- on all points ---- webwalk got to the heart of the matter and, as you predicted, about 300 other posts ignored the heart of the matter
how many more months of this stuff?
sewra,
Exactly right. My first major wake up call on our so-called democracy and the alleged power of the executive branch to mold policy was when Reagan got shot by someone who's family was friendly with the VP Bush. It was a total non-event in the press. Reagan had been gunning for the Federal reserve and making noises about our currency and all of a sudden he stopped that totally. Again, no news, no questions as too this change in approach, etc. So I figured, the CIA bastard (Bush) was really in charge.
But I was wrong. It was Wall Street that was in charge. The CIA is known as the paramilitary arm of Wall Street. Bush was just the front man at the time.
Wall Street is still in charge. The executive, legislative and judiciary branches are staffed with actors, period.
Do you want to know who the smartest, most dangerous representatives of Wall Street are? They aren't in the "paramilitary" branch. They are in the media. That group of people that are routinely ridiculed and scorned as whores and sellouts. THEY are the guiding light of fascism in the US.
Any attempt to change the rotten state of affairs in the US must be two pronged. You need to cut funding to the CIA and the media. Otherwise, the wars and the misery will continue to destroy this country.
I don't think Obama is going to lose. His media and marketing handlers will play the voters like a violin...again. Remember, he's Wall Street's boy and he will continue to assure them that he's their guy. Why would they want to take a chance?
You may be right
These reconstructionist Christians frighten me because of their unwavering belief in only "Christians" have the right to be the leaders of this country. They believe without question nor apology to what they perceive to be their right to govern as according to strict adherence to the Old Testament view of the world, with a smattering of the New Testament to solidify their views. Anybody not joining their sect are looked upon with disdain as being "pagan".
These sociopaths are christian in name only - Jesus said as you treated the hungry sick and poor is how you treated me -
And ron pauls answer to that is no $ for health insurance? Die in the street -
no $ for food? Starve to death......
No $ for shelter because you are infirm or elderly - live in your car -
He is a Christian ONLY if you are a rich, white male.
Exactly, Tommy Toons! And it's pretty glib the way the Ron Paul supporters in this forum race right by this very frightening trend, as if the freedoms thrown into the ash heap of history will easily be returned! What matter to them, if women are placed back into 17th century status, or that gays become targets for disaffected urban youth gangs? Or that Social Security, that "great evil" be once and for all stabbed in its dark heart!
It's pretty shallow to think that an allusion to stopping wars abroad will improve life at home... at the hands of an authoritarian.
Some in this forum have a very superficial understanding of history; or else, they are using memes (anti-war) like fishing lures, to try to draw the Left to an unspeakable Right Wing covert orthodoxy.
It's disgusting...
I was always concerned when Naomi Wolf cheered Ron Paul back in 07/08. My nephew who is very progressive was for Ron Paul due to his Anti Military Action in Iraq, and Afganistan. I got suspicious when I ran across infowars.com - Alex Jones by accident. I check his homepage every few days, just to keep informed on what those folks are thinking. A.J. is all about conspiracy theory of the "New World Order, future economic collapse, and constantly has been a supporter of Ron Paul. I have never been a fan of Libatarians, or end of the World Christian Types. Ron Paul is a Dangerous man.
I do not agree with Ron Paul on many issues; however having said that, I would definitly choose him over Perry or BO.
Since the only purpose of favoring the most-likely-to-be elected republican candidate over another would be a "worse, the better" strategy, perhaps picking Rand Paul would be the preferred candidate. But then again, look how long the Chilean people have been sullenly accepting the Ayn Randite economics of Pinochet, and are now, only 35 years later, rising up.
The better option is to reject the utterly corrupt and profoundly undemocratic US system, of electoral politics altogether.
pjd412: I agree with you, but unfortunately, from my perspective, not a very realistic option. Paul
My above post was meant as satire to show the miasma of the present state of Presidential, politics in America.
Paul,
Me too...
Where do I begin with this odd article?
Any article that criticizes Ron Paul without mentioning Ayn Rand or Milton Friedman cannot be attempting an accurate criticism of Ron Paul.
But apparently Ms. Stan is sympathetic to so-called "economic libertarianism" herself, so she must instead use the usual bourgeois liberal accusations of anti abortion, anti gay, and being a fundie christian. But the oddest accusation is the "he is a dangerous right-winger because he is an anti-Israel fundie christian" in the next to the last paragraph.
PDJ: As a white male, you do not understand the position of those in the groups most likely to be leveraged by the next power take-over. So it's easy for you to PRETEND that their stances represent some form of "bourgeois liberal accusation."
Yours is a very insensitive post! (And to think a day ago, you posted something against Ron Paul that was sound!) Or are you unaware of the racial disparity seen in present day incarceration rates? Or that poor Black mothers may be tossed out of housing projects if someone peripherally related to them is found to use any recreational drugs? In other words, do you have ANY idea how hard it is for people who are not on the most-favored citizens' list? (And while I fully expect you to respond by relating the unemployment numbers across the board, the fact remains that things are worse for those at the fiscal bottom of the long-established, hierarchical totem pole.)
Until you walk in the shoes of those groups that for CENTURIES have been pushed to the bottom of society's ladder, do not PATRONIZE their plights with some glib umbrella term that doesn't mean shit to a tree!
This article was clear and forthcoming. If it left out the Chicago School of economics as a motivating factor, so be it. You can mention the omission without any need or attempt to smear the author for seeing what you do not.
How about the black mother whose child was struck by a hit and run drunk driver(who they later caught) crossing a street outside a crosswalk receiving MORE time in jail(for neglect) than the white drunk driver who actually killed the kid?
Or what about the practice of social workers taking children from their mothers because their apartment is messy and dumping them into the foster care system? Most foster parents are in it for the money, and most of those children suffer tremendous abuse. Then, when their traumatized, the pediatricians drug the majority of them up with neuroleptics. Oh, the helping professions.
I agree with you Sioux Rose: " The article was clear and forthcoming ". Paul
SR--I share your concern for those at the bottom of our society's heap. That's another reason I'm voting for Ron Paul in the Republican PRIMARIES. Because Paul opposes the War on Drugs, which is actually a War on the Poor and Non-White, as evidenced by the number of poor and dark-skinned people locked up for nonviolent offenses.
Paul is the ONLY mainstream candidate who opposes the War on Drugs. Or who opposes the endless wars in which we are destroying the lives of the poor and dark-skinned all over the world, as well as in this country.
Unless Paul is nominated by the Republicans, there is no chance that there will be any discussion of these wars. What do you see as the danger in strategically voting for Paul in the Primaries in order to get the discussion going on the national stage?
What more effective way do you have to get this discussion going nationwide? Is there a more effective way to get the killing and jailing stopped?
PETR: I will give you credit for raising an important point... however, just as many of us realize that Ron Paul could NOT play the role of David, taking down the Military Goliath, the same likely applies for the war on drugs. It is a HUGE state apparatus. You've got the entities building the prisons, the judges, many lawyers, bail bondsmen, and the entire police labyrinth INVESTED in this boondangle.
Just as a nation that maintained truly wise agricultural codes would not give rise to a generation of obese, soon-to-become Diabetic children, doing the right thing generally costs less in the long run. However, it is precisely the illusion of free enterprise that allows those most mercenary of the for-profit forces to purchase the "law"makers, who then in turn put policies into place that favor their interests.
Again, Paul may TALK a good game, and perhaps he'd get some air time on such a subject (although I think not, they'd do unto him, what the media savants did unto John Edwards and Howard Dean IF the conversation got too close to what's truly wrong with this country) and shut him off or down.
In all likelihood, he won't be a major player; and what no one has brought up is that to the degree persons like Paul gain support, is the degree to which this nation slips closer and closer to that all too dangerous terrain of a Christian Theocracy, a dark portrait aptly painted in Chris Hedges' book, "American Fascists."
... First they came for.
And to the poster who spoke of the woman in Atlanta, punished for crossing the street... I was too upset about that to even leave a comment. It's the Southern Jim Crow crap hiding behind the new version of Calvnism... or YOY in all things... leading to a society as SPLIT apart as the atom!
So if you believe it would be impossible for Ron Paul to play the role of David and take down the military Goliath, and if it would be impossible for Paul to get his anti-war message past the media savants, and even if he could, it would be shallow to think that advocacy of stopping wars abroad would improve life at home, why would you believe that the two-party monopoly will come apart and make room for other players on the national political stage?
Why shouldn't we all just throw up our hands and admit that even though the current system is rotten to the core, it will continue to stand because the critical players are all bought and paid for and have no incentive to bring about change?
There was a time when progressives, liberals, and just about anyone regardless of their political affiliation used to unite and organize so that in time, people such as Huey Long, FDR, Truman, etc... would make a difference even at a time when just about every politician was bought out. Today, we the Left are too divided up to unite and fight back let alone succeed in electing politicians who have an incentive to bring Main Street change for the better.
What I thought was most odd about the article was the dependence on guilt-by-association, but also wondered about the section you cite.
The complete passage is:
"Paul wrote under his own byline the following passage in both The Ron Paul Investment Letter and the Ron Paul Political Report:
"I've been told not to talk, but these stooges don't scare me. Threats or no threats, I've laid bare the coming race war in our big cities. The federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS (my training as a physician helps me see through this one.) The Bohemian Grove--perverted, pagan playground of the powerful. Skull & Bones: the demonic fraternity that includes George Bush and leftist Senator John Kerry, Congress's Mr. New Money. The Israeli lobby, which plays Congress like a cheap harmonica."
I don't know what Paul means about the "federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS," but I can't find anything about the rest of the comment to disagree with.
I wonder if the extreme outrage at the idea of strategically voting for Paul in the Republican PRIMARIES, and then Green in the general election, is generated by the PEP (Progressive except Palestine) crowd, who support Israel at all costs.
PK, you raised a good point on the guilt-by-association fallacy which I find to be a major weakness IMO. Some who are strongly opposed to Paul show that weakness while the Paulites have a weakness of honor by association fallacy. Myself and the rest of most of us who are sane thinkers don't fall under either one of those traps. As for Paul being a Green Party nominee, I dunno but there's not much of a chance. He may show himself to be a lot greener than most Democrats or Republicans when it comes to legalizing industrial hemp, cutting off corporate subsidization that goes to fossil fuel goons, and fighting for small farmers and raw milk but I can't say that he'll come any closer to qualifying as a Green Party candidate. His positions on most social issues are either mixed or far too rightist for him to qualify. For Paul to be the Green Party nominee is to be an almost repeat of Bob Barr being the Libertarian Party nominee.
I'm not imagining that Paul could be a Green Party candidate. What I'm saying is it might be good to vote for Paul in the Republican Primaries, to get a discussion going, and then vote for whoever the Green Party candidate (and it won't be Paul) is in the general election.
PK, my apologies for overlooking the wording on your post. As for the idea, I dunno if the primaries are worth fighting for anymore. Some have argued that we would be better off devoting our time, energy, and resources towards strengthening the Green Party regardless of who gets nominated in either the Republican or Democratic Party primaries.I suppose that a Paul for GOP nominee and a Kucinich/Grayson/Feingold type nominee for the Democratic nominee might change the dynamic race as far as giving the Green Party a better exposure goes but I also think that the establishment of both parties will use that fake opposition to thwart third parties as "not needed". I am under the impression that a Perry/Bachmann vs Obama race in 2012 will create a bigger void that the Green Party can then have a better shot at capitalizing on although I understand that 2008 taught us that even that kind of a scenario isn't guaranteed.
Ron Paul also wants to go back to the gold standard. Maybe there will be so few people left there will be enough gold to go around after the rapture ?
Obama: War, rule by AIPAC, social Darwinism.
Perry: War, rule by AIPAC, social Darwinism.
Paul: Social Darwinism.
Your choices in American Presidential politics, except the Paul option is not really an option because of our domination by the MIC and an Israel-first media.
People worried about Ron Paul actually becoming President are delusional. It would never be allowed.
Exactly. Much ado about nothing.
I agree with you Fake French. I think that as candidates start to win, and if there is some worry. you will find that different issues or things in there past surface and they drop in the polls. I think you will see that happen to Ron Paul, and Rick Perry. If you remember Ross Perot back in 92, started out with a very good campaign. Towards the end he appeared to be very flakey and dropped like a hot potatoe. This is only a theory, but I wouldnt think that R. Paul will win the presidency.
Why would ANYONE vote for another sociopath like Ron Paul - the guy has ZERO empathy - which is basically the definition of a sociopath.
Progressives should vote for the Progressive 3rd party - if t's not on the ballot write it in!
1. Democrats will notice progressives only when a Progressive 3rd party consistently receives more votes thsn the dems lose by - that is the only thing these corporate tools in the 2 parties undestand.
2. By consistently receiving increasing numbers of votes a progressive 3rd party will serve notice to the country that people don't accept the 2 corporate parties and serve notice that WE VOTE
If progressives turn around and vote for the rethug it simply drives home the 'move to the center(right) strategy that negates any influence Progressives may have -
Now may be a good time for a 3rd party as Obummer is obviously a war-mongering banking whore of a sellout corporate puppet -
The 2 parties are Nothing more than 2 sides to the same crooked coin.
Even if you think your vote is wasted on a 3rd party I'd argue it s truly wasted voting for what you don't want and voting for a person who stands for basically everything a progressive should be against -
Take a stand for christ sakes and QUIT the 2 party brainwashing.
why empower the 2 party fascist system when with little or no effort you can take a stand Against these things by voting progressive 3rd party?
RESIST!
MT DON: That's how I see it, too. And I suspect there are MILLIONS who agree, but they're trying to find a way to organize, and begin a movement. As pain and fiscal deprviations sink more ships, more alienated persons will be forced to rise to the occasion, lest they go out on the rancid tide.
Agreed, vote third party in the general election. But what about the PRIMARIES? Sit those out?
What's the down side of voting in the Republican primaries for the only anti-war, anti-corporate candidate, Ron Paul? Yes, he's horrible on many issues, but the other Republicans, including Obama, are horrible on ALL the issues.
The point of this strategic voting in the PRIMARIES would be to get the antiwar, anti-corporate discussion onto prime time TV, which isn't going to talk about this unless forced to by a Paul candidacy. We know that the majority of our fellow citizens actually agree with us about the wars, the corporations, the loss of our civil rights, the trade treaties, but are being brainwashed into apathy by mainstream "news" reporting.
Maybe getting our issues out front and center would result in a stampede to the Green Party or Socialist Workers in the general election. Maybe not. What would be the downside of trying?
Every time I looked into the face of someone impoverished, if another program was cut, I'd see Ron Paul. (Granted, the "Usual suspects" from both parties have certainly made way in that unspeakable zone.) No. I would NEVER vote for him. As others do, out of principle, I'd write in another name. The time to BE a conscientious objector is now. Enough of the two-party scam that's led the nation to moral, fiscal, and ecological ruin! Paul is NO white knight or savior... unless you wish to live IN chains.
Thanks for your reply, SR. Just wondering, why would voting for Paul in the Republican PRIMARY (where the party's candidate is chosen) as a strategy to get a national discussion going on what is happening NOW to destroy the lives of the poor, be a bad idea?
I'm talking about these programs that destroy the lives of the poor right now: the forever wars, the War of Drugs, the loss of Habeas Corpus and the Constitution, the NAFTA-type trade acts, and our two-tier system of justice.
I am suggesting voting for Paul in the PRIMARY elections, not in the GENERAL election (which is where a Republican candidate may or may not defeat Obama).
How would voting for Paul in the PRIMARY elections be any more likely to hurt the poor than sitting back while one of the other Republicans is selected for the top of their ticket? Remember, Paul has a strong history of opposing those programs I mentioned, while the other potential Republican presidential candidates support them, as does Obama.
I usually agree with your posts, so would really like to know why you think it is a matter of "principle" to refuse to use the one tool we seem to have (cross voting), in favor of a powerless strategy of writing in names.
As you say, it's a two-party scam, and is leading us to ruin. But is writing in names, or refusing to participate (which would be understood as being complacent), likely to change the game? Why wouldn't we seize our chance to change the direction of the game, and go from there?
Yes, exactly. Just waiting to see what "progressive third parties" happen to be around -- otherwise I'm protest-voting.
Terrific post with some great points mtdon! Resist the urge to vote against your political values and conscience by treating the voting booth as a trip to Vegas that bets on some future outcome you can't possibly know to certainty in order to support the 'lesser of two evils' in the one corporatist party split into two factions!