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How Greed Destroys America
America’s corporate chieftains are living like kings while the middle class stagnates and shrivels
If the “free-market” theories of Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman were correct, the United States of the last three decades should have experienced a golden age in which the lavish rewards flowing to the titans of industry would have transformed the society into a vibrant force for beneficial progress.
Direct Action for Single-PayerAfter all, it has been faith in “free-market economics” as a kind of secular religion that has driven U.S. government policies – from the emergence of Ronald Reagan through the neo-liberalism of Bill Clinton into the brave new world of House Republican budget chairman Paul Ryan.
By slashing income tax rates to historically low levels – and only slightly boosting them under President Clinton before dropping them again under George W. Bush – the U.S. government essentially incentivized greed or what Ayn Rand liked to call “the virtue of selfishness.”
Further, by encouraging global “free trade” and removing regulations like the New Deal’s Glass-Steagall separation of commercial and investment banks, the government also got out of the way of “progress,” even if that “progress” has had crushing results for many middle-class Americans.
True, not all the extreme concepts of author/philosopher Ayn Rand and economist Milton Friedman have been implemented – there are still programs like Social Security and Medicare to get rid of – but their “magic of the market” should be glowing by now.
We should be able to assess whether laissez-faire capitalism is superior to the mixed public-private economy that dominated much of the 20th Century.
The old notion was that a relatively affluent middle class would contribute to the creation of profitable businesses because average people could afford to buy consumer goods, own their own homes and take an annual vacation with the kids. That “middle-class system,” however, required intervention by the government as the representative of the everyman.
Beyond building a strong infrastructure for growth – highways, airports, schools, research programs, a safe banking system, a common defense, etc. – the government imposed a progressive tax structure that helped pay for these priorities and also discouraged the accumulation of massive wealth.
After all, the threat to a healthy democracy from concentrated wealth had been known to American leaders for generations.
A century ago, it was Republican President Theodore Roosevelt who advocated for a progressive income tax and an estate tax. In the 1930s, it was Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt, who dealt with the economic and societal carnage that under-regulated financial markets inflicted on the nation during the Great Depression.
With those hard lessons learned, the federal government acted on behalf of the common citizen to limit Wall Street’s freewheeling ways and to impose high tax rates on excessive wealth.
So, during Dwight Eisenhower’s presidency of the 1950s, the marginal tax rate on the top tranche of earnings for the richest Americans was about 90 percent. When Ronald Reagan took office in 1981, the top rate was still around 70 percent.
Discouraging Greed
Greed was not simply frowned upon; it was discouraged.
Put differently, government policy was to maintain some degree of egalitarianism within the U.S. political-economic system. And to a remarkable degree, the strategy worked.
The American middle class became the envy of the world, with otherwise average folk earning enough money to support their families comfortably and enjoy some pleasures of life that historically had been reserved only for the rich.
Without doubt, there were serious flaws in the U.S. system, especially due to the legacies of racism and sexism. And it was when the federal government responded to powerful social movements that demanded those injustices be addressed in the 1960s and 1970s, that an opening was created for right-wing politicians to exploit resentments among white men, particularly in the South.
By posing as populists hostile to “government social engineering,” the Right succeeded in duping large numbers of middle-class Americans into seeing their own interests – and their “freedom” – as in line with corporate titans who also decried federal regulations, including those meant to protect average citizens, like requiring seat belts in cars and discouraging cigarette smoking.
Amid the sluggish economy of the 1970s, the door swung open wider for the transformation of American society that had been favored by the likes of Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman, putting the supermen of industry over the everyman of democracy.
Friedman tested out his “free-market” theories in the socio-economic laboratories of brutal military dictatorships in Latin America, most famously collaborating with Chile’s Gen. Augusto Pinochet who crushed political opponents with torture and assassinations.
Ayn Rand became the darling of the American Right with her books, such as Atlas Shrugged, promoting the elitist notion that brilliant individuals represented the engine of society and that government efforts to lessen social inequality or help the average citizen were unjust and unwise.
The Pied Piper
Yet, while Rand and Friedman gave some intellectual heft to “free-market” theories, Ronald Reagan proved to be the perfect pied piper for guiding millions of working Americans in a happy dance toward their own serfdom.
In his first inaugural address, Reagan declared that “government is the problem” – and many middle-class whites cheered.
However, what Reagan’s policies meant in practice was a sustained assault on the middle class: the busting of unions, the export of millions of decent-paying jobs, and the transfer of enormous wealth to the already rich. The tax rates for the wealthiest were slashed about in half. Greed was incentivized.
Ironically, the Reagan era came just as technology – much of it created by government-funded research – was on the cusp of creating extraordinary wealth that could have been shared with average Americans. Those benefits instead accrued to the top one or two percent.
The rich also benefited from the off-shoring of jobs, exploiting cheap foreign labor and maximizing profits. The only viable way for the super-profits of “free trade” to be shared with the broader U.S. population was through taxes on the rich. However, Reagan and his anti-government true-believers made sure that those taxes were kept at historically low levels.
The Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman theories may have purported to believe that the “free market” would somehow generate benefits for the society as a whole, but their ideas really represented a moralistic frame which held that it was somehow right that the wealth of the society should go to its “most productive” members and that the rest of us were essentially “parasites.”
Apparently, special people like Rand also didn’t need to be encumbered by philosophical consistency. Though a fierce opponent of the welfare state, Rand secretly accepted the benefits of Medicare after she was diagnosed with lung cancer, according to one of her assistants.
She connived to have Evva Pryor, an employee of Rand’s law firm, arrange Social Security and Medicare benefits for Ann O’Connor, Ayn Rand using an altered spelling of her first name and her husband’s last name.
In 100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand, Scott McConnell, founder of the Ayn Rand Institute’s media department, quoted Pryor as justifying Rand’s move by saying: “Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out.” Yet, it didn’t seem to matter much if “average” Americans were wiped out.
Essentially, the Right was promoting the Social Darwinism of the 19th Century, albeit in chic new clothes. The Gilded Age from a century ago was being recreated behind Reagan’s crooked smile, Clinton’s good-ole-boy charm and George W. Bush’s Texas twang.
Whenever the political descendants of Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt tried to steer the nation back toward programs that would benefit the middle class and demand greater sacrifice from the super-rich, the wheel was grabbed again by politicians and pundits shouting the epithet, “tax-and-spend.”
Many average Americans were pacified by reminders of how Reagan made them feel good with his rhetoric about “the shining city on the hill.”
The Rand/Friedman elitism also remains alive with today’s arguments from Republicans who protest the idea of raising taxes on businessmen and entrepreneurs because they are the ones who “create the jobs,” even if there is little evidence that they are actually creating American jobs.
Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wisconsin, who is leading the fight to replace Medicare with a voucher system that envisions senior citizens buying health insurance from profit-making companies, cites Ayn Rand as his political inspiration.
A Land for Billionaires
The consequences of several decades of Reaganism and its related ideas are now apparent. Wealth has been concentrated at the top with billionaires living extravagant lives that not even monarchs could have envisioned, while the middle class shrinks and struggles, with one everyman after another being shoved down into the lower classes and into poverty.
Millions of Americans forego needed medical care because they can’t afford health insurance; millions of young people, burdened by college loans, crowd back in with their parents; millions of trained workers settle for low-paying jobs; millions of families skip vacations and other simple pleasures of life.
Beyond the unfairness, there is the macro-economic problem which comes from massive income disparity. A healthy economy is one where the vast majority people can buy products, which can then be manufactured more cheaply, creating a positive cycle of profits and prosperity.
With Americans unable to afford the new car or the new refrigerator, American corporations see their domestic profit margins squeezed. So they are compensating for the struggling U.S. economy by expanding their businesses abroad in developing markets, but they also keep their profits there.
There are now economic studies that confirm what Americans have been sensing in their own lives, though the mainstream U.S. news media tends to attribute these trends to cultural changes, rather than political choices.
For instance, the Washington Post published a lengthy front-page article on June 19, describing the findings of researchers who gained access to economic data from the Internal Revenue Service which revealed which categories of taxpayers were making the high incomes.
To the surprise of some observers, the big bucks were not flowing primarily to athletes or actors or even stock market speculators. America’s new super-rich were mostly corporate chieftains.
As the Post’s Peter Whoriskey framed the story, U.S. business underwent a cultural transformation from the 1970s when chief executives believed more in sharing the wealth than they do today.
The article cites a U.S. dairy company CEO from the 1970s, Kenneth J. Douglas, who earned the equivalent of about $1 million a year. He lived comfortably but not ostentatiously. Douglas had an office on the second floor of a milk distribution center, and he turned down raises because he felt it would hurt morale at the plant, Whoriskey reported.
However, just a few decades later, Gregg L. Engles, the current CEO of the same company, Dean Foods, averages about 10 times what Douglas made. Engles works in a glittering high-rise office building in Dallas; owns a vacation estate in Vail, Colorado; belongs to four golf clubs; and travels in a $10 million corporate jet. He apparently has little concern about what his workers think.
“The evolution of executive grandeur – from very comfortable to jet-setting – reflects one of the primary reasons that the gap between those with the highest incomes and everyone else is widening,” Whoriskey reported.
“For years, statistics have depicted growing income disparity in the United States, and it has reached levels not seen since the Great Depression. In 2008, the last year for which data are available, for example, the top 0.1 percent of earners took in more than 10 percent of the personal income in the United States, including capital gains, and the top 1 percent took in more than 20 percent.
“But economists had little idea who these people were. How many were Wall Street financiers? Sports stars? Entrepreneurs? Economists could only speculate, and debates over what is fair stalled. Now a mounting body of economic research indicates that the rise in pay for company executives is a critical feature in the widening income gap.”
Jet-Setting Execs
The Post article continued: “The largest single chunk of the highest-income earners, it turns out, are executives and other managers in firms, according to a landmark analysis of tax returns by economists Jon Bakija, Adam Cole and Bradley T. Heim. These are not just executives from Wall Street, either, but from companies in even relatively mundane fields such as the milk business.
“The top 0.1 percent of earners make about $1.7 million or more, including capital gains. Of those, 41 percent were executives, managers and supervisors at non-financial companies, according to the analysis, with nearly half of them deriving most of their income from their ownership in privately-held firms.
“An additional 18 percent were managers at financial firms or financial professionals at any sort of firm. In all, nearly 60 percent fell into one of those two categories. Other recent research, moreover, indicates that executive compensation at the nation’s largest firms has roughly quadrupled in real terms since the 1970s, even as pay for 90 percent of America has stalled.”
While these new statistics are striking – suggesting a broader problem with high-level greed than might have been believed – the Post ducked any political analysis that would have laid blame on Ronald Reagan and various right-wing economic theories.
In a follow-up editorial on June 26, the Post lamented the nation’s growing income inequality but shied away from proposing higher marginal tax rates on the rich or faulting the past several decades of low tax rates. Instead, the Post suggested perhaps going after deductions on employer-provided health insurance and mortgage interest, tax breaks that also help middle-class families.
It appears that in Official Washington and inside the major U.S. news media the idea of learning from past presidents, including the Roosevelts and Dwight Eisenhower, is a non-starter. Instead there’s an unapologetic embrace of the theories of Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman, an affection that can pop out at unusual moments.
Addressing a CNBC “Fast Money” panel last year, movie director Oliver Stone was taken aback when one CNBC talking head gushed how Stone’s “Wall Street” character Gordon Gecko had been an inspiration, known for his famous comment, “Greed is good.” A perplexed Stone responded that Gecko, who made money by breaking up companies and eliminating jobs, was meant to be a villain.
However, the smug attitude of the CNBC stock picker represented a typical tribute to Ronald Reagan’s legacy. After all, greed did not simply evolve from some vague shift in societal attitudes, as the Post suggests. Rather, it was stimulated – and rewarded – by Reagan’s tax policies.
Reagan’s continued popularity also makes it easier for today’s “no-tax-increase” crowd to demand only spending cuts as a route to reducing the federal debt, an ocean of red ink largely created by the tax cuts of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.
Tea Partiers, in demanding even more cuts in government help for average citizens and even more tax cuts for the rich, represent only the most deluded part of middle-class America. A recent poll of Americans rated Reagan the greatest U.S. president ever, further enshrining his anti-government message in the minds of many Americans, even those in the battered middle class.
When a majority of Americans voted for Republicans in Election 2010 – and with early polls pointing toward a likely GOP victory in the presidential race of 2012 – it’s obvious that large swaths of the population have no sense of what’s in store for them as they position their own necks under the boots of corporate masters.
The only answer to this American crisis would seem to be a reenergized and democratized federal government fighting for average citizens and against the greedy elites. But – after several decades of Reaganism, with the “free market” religion the new gospel of the political/media classes – that seems a difficult outcome to achieve.
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158 Comments so far
Show AllThe general and widespread stupidity of the American people has allowed a corrupt system to develop with two parties totally dependent on their corporate sponsors and who are mostly in agreement on important things like spending a fortune to slaughter brown people overseas and only pretending to regulate wall street and corporate America. Racists, religious idiots and vicious greedy people can usually form a coalition of voters in order to elect right wing governments who continue mounting assaults on medicare, social security, civil rights and secular society without much resistance.
If you despise ordinary Americans so much ("general and widespread stupidity"), then why do you (purport to) care about their SS and Medicare? I should think that the left-wing intellectuals who despise ordinary people would then be, at best, indifferent to the welfare of such people- they deserve what they get, right? They voted in the bad guys. If grandma is a stupid, racist, "religious idiot," then why get yourself exercised about her Medicare or lack thereof?
That's why many of them migrated to the "f**k 'em" left/libertarians, or fancy themselves "dictators of the proletariat" because, ya know, those "idiots" need dictating to. I've seen this kind of rabid hatred during the vietnam war. They are no friends of the people. Beware. It's not so easy to know who is friend and who is foe.
I thought that might be it - also, it's a cheap and easy way to feel superior.
Hey! Watch it! My mother, my daughter's grandma, is stupid, racist, and a religious idiot, but that doesn't mean I want harm to come to her.
I keep reading your post and really don't get it. You seem to think that people who dislike others' thinking must be at best indifferent to their welfare. That's pretty screwed up.
No, but I think that people who despise other people, calling them stupid, racist, idiot, etc., must at best be indifferent to their welfare - which then makes me wonder what their angle is when they pretend to be concerned. More will-to-power than love going on there, I'm thinkin'.
dwatkins9,
Oh, I don't know. Perhaps you are overreacting. I agree that name calling sounds insensitive to the present plight of common people but perhaps it's just frustration at the lack of reaction by said people to the horrendous level of exploitaion and propaganda they/we are being subjected to.
Don't you ever get mad at a loved one who can't seem to solve their personal problems? Don't you sometimes go on a tirade about "they deserve everything they get for being so stupid" when all you want to do is help them but they won't listen?
Usually I limit myself to the term stupified. But it's been absolutely disgusting to watch people I love turn to Glenn Beck for guidance, and very frightening. But ill will toward anybody so hoodwinked only makes matters worse.
Elizabeth H,
Well said.
I agree, but one cannot excuse such ignorance and meekly cooperate with it. Often times it means a change in that relationship. Whether 'blood' or not we are closest to those we are aligned with, whatever their professed beliefs. Generally, though, if you are growing and they are not, you will drift apart, and find yourself in conflict with them much of the time. Better not to spend too much time with people who are determined to remain asleep--at least when you have a choice in the matter.
I agree that name calling sounds insensitive to the present plight of common people but perhaps it's just frustration at the lack of reaction by said people to the horrendous level of exploitaion and propaganda they/we are being subjected to
thanks
annat jain
Machine tools | Cutting tools | Auto parts http://www.sme.in/
I don't understand the lefts reluctance to call a spade a spade. I'll give a couple examples. If a fundamentalist christian believes the world is 6000 years old, the rapture is coming soon (so climate change is non-issue), raves about the word of god but supports the destruction of Iraqi's and bears prejudice against homosexuals etc., then votes for a conservative candidate who pillages mainstreet America, I'm going to call them on it. I'll call them idiotic, bigoted and ignorant. It doesn't mean I bear them any ill will. A second example. There is a member of my immediate family who about 20 years ago was diagnosed with an incurable, debilitating disease. Since that time he has been restricted to a wheelchair, lost control of his bladder, fine motor skills etc. Now during that time he made no effort to change to his lifestyle, his diet, or activities despite his resticted activity level. Now he suffers from high blood pressure and other related problems in addition to his other condition. Through out all this he continues to shop at places like Wal-Mart, vote conservative, decry welfare, and carry prejudiced opinions to other races and homosexuals. In essence, he is supporting the very things that contribute to or worsen his lifestyle and the lives of others in his community. I bear no ill will towards him, I wish him only the best (although I know the decisions he makes almost ensure that will not happen).
Their ignorance upsets me because the real world ramifications of it are destroying North American society and setting us all up for much future hardship, But I still feel they should have medical coverage and a living wage and good education for their kids or whatever. Perhaps if they had these things they would be more prone to recognizing the value of socialism and leftist ideals.
No. It is because "grandma," as you say, has herself actually endangered Medicare (etc.) that critics cry out in alarm and disgust. By voting "the bad guys" in.
No. It is because "grandma," as you say, has herself actually endangered Medicare (etc.) that critics cry out in alarm and disgust. By voting "the bad guys" in.
No. It is because "grandma," as you say, has herself actually endangered Medicare (etc.) that critics cry out in alarm and disgust. By voting "the bad guys" in.
So very sorry for this. The reply didn't "stick" beneath the comment I responded to and kept ending up here. And each time I attempted to delete it, in its present location, it merely repeated itself. Sorry.......
But what you don't appear to see is that "ordinary Americans' voting for politicians who will destroy Medicare and Social Security - the voters' own Medicare and SS - is why they are sometimes called "stupid." As in voting in that manner is, yes, self destructive. Also, if I may add, voting in politicians who will destroy Medicare and SS also affects most of the rest of us. Those of us who would like to save Medicare and Social Security. Which is why some of us may be bitter about the "stupidity" of those whose votes threaten us all. Is that so difficult to see?
Because you don't see the big picture. These comments seem absolutely moronic to Canadians and Europeans. We shake our heads wondering why Americans are so blind (and yes, many are stupid) but they have been fed this propaganda by big powerful media for a century with their heroes of rugged individualism, American exceptionalism, etc. where everyone has to pull up their own bootstraps. Pure egotistical, patriotic narcism contributing to this willful ignorance.
The disastrous, cruel, inhumane Medicaid budget slashing is real beyond words...the Republican really are cruel bastards who its seems have taken lessons from the Nazis as they pull needed health care/support from millions of children, poor, elderly, and the disabled poor.
The Obama Admin's plan to slash spending on Medicaid is completely wrong and is unacceptable...are people in that administration completely in the pocket of corporate lobbyists and Wall Street? This is party of FDR and LBJ? Obama has spent too much time kissing up to corporate fundraising fatcats and vacationing in Martha's Vineyard to appreciate how Medicaid is needed and is keeping people alive...oops I forgot, children, severely disable and seniors in nursing home don't vote in big numbers or funnel money to the Dems.
"House Republicans are pushing for dramatic cuts. The House Republican budget proposal, sponsored by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.), calls for a 5 percent cut in federal funding to state Medicaid programs in 2013, 15 percent in 2014, and 35 percent by 2021. The cuts would add up to about $750 billion over ten years, 64 percent of which would go to senior nursing home residents who depend on Medicaid to pay for their housing and assistance. Another 22 percent of the Medicaid budget is allocated to 34 million very poor children."
America--the perfect storm of middle class ignorance and corporate evil.
Does envy deserve a hearing?
Here is my little anecdote to corporate greed. At a company I know of the IT staff used to get $1 an hour to be on call to fix any issues with the companies computer systems. $1 an hour to have highly trained people at the companies beck and call 24/7/365. They had been paying $1 an hour to on call staff for probably better than 20 years. Then one year they just decided to stop paying it. They simply decided that paying someone $1/hour to crawl out of bed in the middle of the night to bail out the company when some system it owned crashed, was way too much to pay so they stopped paying it.
They felt $1 an hour was too much to pay their people to work from home, and paying them NOTHING was more appropriate, and they felt this was a completely reasonable stance to take. Think about that for a minute.
Why would the thing to do for the IT person not be to quit, start his/her own business as a consultant, and agree to get out of bed in the middle of the night freelance for $50.00 an hour, or whatever the market might bear?
The point of my comment was that companies feel they now have the right to peoples labor for nothing.
Im sure it would make perfect sense to most people with a mortgage, and a few kids heading to college, and a retirement to think about and the need for corporate provided health care to quit their job and then hope to get hired back as a consultant at whatever the market will bear.
They do indeed. An example here. In the last 8 mos. I got two so called sales jobs. neither paid a wage. Thats right no wage nothing. 100 % Commission based on my sales. Oh and little or not sales support either. these Companies essentially want us to bring money from home . They want many of us to be 1099 contractors that work whenever for whatever and if we don't like it we can go to hell.
Per IRS rules, you can't be 1099'd unless you are a bona fide independent business person (contractor). There are a bunch of ways that can be determined, but basically, you have to be an independent practitioner and not a de facto employee. If you are in fact an employee and treated as such, then the employer must pay fica and all the rest of it.
In addition to this, you pay for everything else too: your taxes sustain infrastructure (khm), found research (as most meaningful basic research is state sponsored), education (even though you're paying for it, what is taught is mostly only good for corporations), healthcare (so that you can work A LOT) and so on. But you get nothing of the profits and nothing even of "productivity gains" (which mostly only consists of replacing human labour with waste of energy and other resources - so of course you will not get a part of that). Too fucking fucked up.
In the real world, since the 90's at least, a company will sell, sometimes to itself under a new corporate name... New owners turn its employees into private contractors who pay rent for the use of the facilities and pay their own taxes and medical. Very convenient for the Corporate employer and they do it all the time apparently. It happened to me. It is oppressive and insecure for the employees, er, contractors.
Yeah - the old "1099 employee" scam.
In many or most cases, they are breaking the law. It doesn't matter that the employee must pay for the materials and tools or workspace used for their work - the wage-slaves of the coal mines on the late 19th century had to buy their own tools, lamps and canaries too. If the worker must follow directions from a supervisor, must do the work a certain way at a certain time, and does not do their tasks under a bidded contract, with freedom as to how they accomplish the task, then they are statutory employees, and their employees MUST pay for workmans comp, UE insurance, overtime if applicable, and the employer share of Medicare and Social Security.
I encourage any worker, who is not genuinely self-employed, and is getting a form 1099 instead of a W-2, and therefore have no benefits or rights and must pay the full "self-employment" tax, to file a Form SS-8 with the IRS. The trouble is, there is no confidentiality possible in the process - the employer will see a copy of your form, so you have to plan on getting fired when you do this.
dwatkins9,
You said, "Per IRS rules, you can't be 1099'd unless you are a bona fide independent business person".
That is incorrect. The corporations deliberately gamed the tax code so they could avoid having to pay their share of social security, medical plans, sick leave and workmens' compensation. Just one example is a newspaper delivery person. No newspaper delivery person can be, by any stretch of the imagination, considered an independent business person. They deliver papers exclusively for Gannet or some other greedster corporation that wants to play the subcontracter game for fun and profit. Corporations and city governments played a similar game even with employees by coming up with the total bullshit of "training wages" to avoid paying minimum wage to new employees. Fuck the employees is the motto.
If you want to defend a Malthusian existence as the way things should be, go for it. But don't sugar coat it with a pretence of laws and "free market" non-ethics.
Greed is not good because it destroys the fabric of community and cohesiveness that enables humanity to thrive and gain a secure and compassionate existence. The willful inability of corporate officials to put themseves in the shoes of their employees and respect their right to a living wage is the epitome of stupidity because it corrodes morale and efficiency at work and breeds distrust and anarchy.
Because the festering sore in the social fabric that greedy practices of conscienseless individuals with the bankrupt, social Darwinist, Randian philosophy fig leaf takes a certain amount of time to unravel society, it makes a nice cover for their continual denial of the idiocy of their irresponsible and inhuman behavior.
The double talk from these defenders of tooth and claw in human affairs is so thick you can cut it with a knife. But it all boils down to arrogance mixed with greed. All defenders of predatory capitalism are basically con artists. But there is a certain logic in their thinking. They are evil bastards so they assume everybody else is.
I would consider them pathetic if they weren't so dangerous to humanity.
Newspaper deliverers are clearly employees, and I'm surprised that the IRS lets the papers get by with that.
Re: Darwinism, I will say this. Irrespective of whether Darwinism is true or not, if you teach Darwinism, you can expect sooner or later to get Social Darwinism. If you teach people that their lives are tales told by an idiot, you run the risk that they will take you seriously and act accordingly. If there is no God but Darwin, then Spencer is his prophet. In _Descent of Man_, Darwin refers to Spencer as "our philosopher." In the absence of God, all things are permissible.
dwatkins9 sez: "In the absence of God, all things are permissible."
So, fear of God is the only reason everyone isn't out raping, robbing and killing everyone else, right? That must be why Christians never do those things and also explains the ongoing atheist crime wave.
Just out of curiosity, if it was proven that either God didn't exist or that true believers could do anything without being punished, who would you rape first?
Hehehehe :-D I think you're exaggerating a little though. I think people should believe in the existence of morality and that there are some limits to what a human being can do and stay moral, even if this can't be scientifically proven and even if it's not logical, and while there may be religious people who don't commit immoral acts because of fear, I think for a lot of believers (definitely for the overwhelming majority of my religious friends) religious rules are just a reflection of their own morality, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Ie. it's not that they don't commit acts because they fear God's wrath, but they wouldn't commit them anyway and just use religion to support their own "moral intuition" or values or whatever. People mostly simply ignore parts of religion that are incompatible with their morality. Of course you can argue that people can't live with hidden inconsistencies for long, but that'd be a silly argument, as history proves that they can, quite easily too, thank you :-)
The danger, in my opinion, is when strict adherence to abstract rules and laws override human experience and morality. And this can happen with everything, not just traditional religions. It happens with simple stuff like "free markets", and it also happened to the Stalinist version Marxism, which is very much an atheist system of thought. If religion is inherently evil, Marxism is inherently evil too. (Disclosure: I'm very much a Marxist, even though I'm not religious otherwise.)
Thing is, the world is complex. It would be nice to have simple rules ("religion bad, atheism good") to decide whether people's thoughts and actions are "dangerous" or not in the long term, or if they lead this way or that. But there simply aren't. There are fucked up atheists and very nice religious people, and the reverse is also true. There is just no such thing as simple obvious rationality.
There are, of course, specific issues where you can know who's right and who isn't, and in which case religion (or rather, dogma formulated by religious institutions) is clearly wrong and has downright fucked up results (the most popular example for this being the rather extreme anti-contraception stance of the Catholic church), and those issues must be fought, and that can lead to larger things.
But in general, I'm sad to say that the Ayn Rand type greed based market fundamentalism, along with Social Darwinism and the "devil take the hindmost" crap are probably a more logical, "rational" and coherent system of thought than Marxism or secular humanism or Catholicism - all of which, in my opinion, are more moral, humane and "progressive" belief systems than her objectivist crap. Without some kind of (probably illogical and scientifically unsupportable) "belief" in morality and most importantly, without the (empirically unsupportable) belief that others beside you exist in the same way as you do, the logical and rational choice of a life strategy will in fact boil down to "devil take the hindmost". It's logical and completely rational. Thinking about what's good for other people too, not just you, is not. But morality overrides this kind of deformed rationality thankfully :-)
Basically, you have to believe that other people like you exist. You have to avoid subjective idealism (which is what every bourgeois system of thought will ultimately boil down to according to György Lukács :-) ). But that's a belief. A practical one, of course, in a lot of respects, especially for people who depend on other people, but certainly not more rational in any way than Berkley's crap.
Thanks for the well reasoned/stated response. I was just reacting to the suggestion that absent God there is no morality ("all is permissible"). An interesting piece on recent discoveries about the altruistic gene here:
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060529_altruism.htm
Oh yeah, I absolutely agree with your response, just used the occasion to rant a little, sorry :-). Thanks for the link too
If you suggestion works, why do few small, individual owned businesses succeeed, while large ones grow larger and larger?
Some products and services need size and organizational diversity to be delivered effictively.
A better solution is that the IT people organize a union (I'd recommend the UE) - something they should have done long ago. But fat chance of that, as most IT and software geeks are the biggest fans of Ayn Rand.
pjd412,
Well said.
I ran into some info that might be of interest to you. It seems there is a plan afoot to create a bike path network over the entire continental USA. When this is done, you could actually ride your bike anywhere in the USA. I hope they succeed.
http://www.americantrails.org/resources/trans/usbikeroutes07.html
Huh. Kind of off-topic.
I prefer walking, public transit, or elctric motor scooters - all of which have a tiny carbon footprint compared to a car. For intercity travel, the ordinary bus, if running reasonably filled, is the cleanest way to travel. Megabus has near-nonstop service between most eastern US and Canada cities - as fast as driving - for far cheaper than driving. Pittsburgh to Toronto is $3 if you book early, and only a bit over $20 if you book the day before.
Ayn Rand spent her last years on Social Security welfare.
.. "Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out" without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn "despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently... She didn't feel that an individual should take help."
"But alas she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so."
http://boingboing.net/2011/01/28/ayn-rand-took-govern.html
Tea Party = Koch Enterprises
And that is the story that needs to get out. Congress slashes funds for us and denies us a PO or medicare for all, but we pay their medical insurance. Plus all the other outrageous perks they get. Their offices and their retirement packages for life. Why aren't the Koch stooges up in arms about that? Because they don't think. Just repeat any lie they hear. You can't fix stupid and I am amazed how stupid most Americans are. If they are even paying attention. Remember the" see what I do, not what I say"?
I must say that I think that congressional representatives and other elected legislators should not be paid any salary or benefits at all. It's supposed to be public service, not a "job." And do we really want to be ruled by people who actually need that 165k p.a. or whatever it is? I want to be ruled by people who are prudent enough that they are well off enough that they do not need a salary and benefits.
"And do we really want to be ruled by people who actually need that 165k p.a. or whatever it is?"
Wow.
So, you prefer oligharchic rule by the idle wealthy? I think the word you are looking for is "ruthless" not "prudent."
You are a walking talking example of the arrogance discussed in this article.
Is everyone who doesn't have to work an oligarch? I want to be ruled by people who are much better than average at dealing with practical matters, and most of those who have managed to wrest from a reluctant world enough money to live independently would qualify, imo. You don't necessarily have to be ruthless to be successful in business, or to put a few million in the bank. Your dentist probably has. But - if we want to pay legislators, then we can't gripe about what it costs or how much they get. Either we pay them or we don't.
dwatkins9,
So you define "well off" as someone WORTHY to rule over us? So because someone has big bucks, they are free of greed and ulterior motives? You think they are, therefore less likely to game the system for their chronies? Hell, why not turn us into a monarchy?
"WELL OFF" is one of those bullshit phrases the rich pushed on the poor to define who was "blessed" and who wasn't.
The people in the middle and lower economic classes are actually more well off than those you so admire because they are not so cognitively disconnected from the reality beyond voracious greed.
Shall I be more specific? People like Warren Buffett have their heads totally up their Haitian sweat shop manufactured Fruit of the Loom underware. They do not understand nature without exploitation. They can't believe that water is evaporated by the sun free of charge to condense on the mountains and produce hydro-electric power. They are probably working on taxing us according to the evaporation rates in our area because they want to put a cash register on any energetic process. These morons have to put a price tag on everything. They are parasites with the unmitigated arrogance to label the people they leech off of as the "nonproductive" members of society.
They are stupid. If you think they are "well off" and somehow more capable of governing than less greedy people, I feel sorry for you.
The occasional Socrates or Thoreau to the contrary notwithstanding, few people embrace voluntary poverty. Poverty, most people feel, stinks. A person who is poor in all probability does not know how to make himself (or herself, yeah, yeah) prosperous, or he would do it. He/she may not be to blame for that, but still - do you want to be ruled by someone who can't even help himself? Not me. I think I'll stick to my original view - elected officials should not be paid, esp. at the upper echelons.
If the people in the lower and middle classes really are better off than the rich, as you say, then there is no need to get exercised about income inequality.
The problem with monarchy is the problem of succession. You might get Marcus Aurelius and everything is great, but finally he dies, and then what?
"A person who is poor in all probability does not know how to make himself (or herself, yeah, yeah) prosperous, or he would do it. "
Or maybe he's satisfied with his material conditions and can not be bothered to climb through people, regardless of what it means to them, to achieve his private goals. In such a rich world, this should be normal. That America has built a world on marketing - on making people believe that nothing is enough doesn't mean that this is true. In fact, manufacturing wants is a pretty fucking costly business, so I'm pretty sure wanting more and more and more is not something natural.
But seriously, what you're saying is just another reflection of the (imo extremely dumb) American personal responsibility credo, that nothing depends on luck or social circumstances, only personal merit. Hard work and talent trump all. How can anyone be stupid enough to believe this I wonder? Sorry about this, but I simply can not believe that anyone who looks around and looks at all those worthy wealthy people can believe that they're more competent in general than average people. I always think that you want this to be true, rather than really know it's true. Mainly because you can't know that it's true, as it isn't.
"He/she may not be to blame for that, but still - do you want to be ruled by someone who can't even help himself?"
The assumption behind this offensively idiotic cliche is stupid, illogical, and absolutely empirically untrue. Try to comprehend this: that you can "help yourself" doesn't in any way prove that you can help others. It only proves that you can help yourself, which mostly happens through "unhelping" others. Simple, no?
I mean, I would at least try to accept this really, really disgusting argument if there was any empirical truth behind it. But there is nothing. People who are greedy are usually not more "competent", they're just more greedy. That's all money proves, if anything. That there is a correlation between wealth and competence is absolutely not logical, rational or obvious, and if you make such an outrageous claim, you should be able to support it with facts.
Well no idea, I always think they should be paid the salary of a teacher just starting work after graduation or something like that. Maybe even a similar pension for the rest of their lives in which case they should not be allowed to have any other income, but they should not be allowed to have any other income while they serve anyway. . Being an elected politician is basically the only case in which you can have an explicit contract with "society" - normal people just have to accept what they get but these people are in a fair position to declare their goodwill toward the common good, which they should do by both words and action. Their contract should imo reflect that, and people looking to avoid responsibility towards the common good should not really get through. Now, of course, what the common good is is subject to debate, which is why elected holders of power should also be willing to submit to processes that democratically examine whether they did hold themselves to their contract At this time, politicians just make promises...I'd like to see any low rank, replaceable corporate employee getting by with the disparity of "promises" and performance on the scale of the average politician, each one of which thinks he's an irreplaceable gift of god to humanity. They should clearly be at least as "disciplined" as any other worker wrt their actual performance, and people should be able to decide whether they are satisfied or not.
You should get elected to serve and there should be nothing else but the respect of your peers that you get out of it, but this should not mean poor people shouldn't be able to do it.
I think that if you didn't allow them any other income besides a modest salary - no investment income, interest, dividends, rents, nothing - then it would be very difficult to get competent people to serve. I don't think you could reasonably ask people to impoverish themselves in order to serve.
As things stand, I don't see us getting much in the way of competence in any meaningful sense of the term.
Yes exactly. Wealth and power are good indicators, as far as personal traits go, for the will to acquire wealth and power, and for competence in acquiring wealth and power, not in "leading" (making decisions in the name of) organized society for the good of that society. Craving for power is in fact exactly the trait that I don't think these leaders should have. If it even makes any sense to have leaders like that.