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Is Fukushima Now Ten Chernobyls into the Sea?
New readings show levels of radioisotopes found up to 30 kilometers offshore from the on-going crisis at Fukushima are ten times higher than those measured in the Baltic and Black Seas during Chernobyl.
"When it comes to the oceans, says Ken Buesseler, a chemical oceonographer at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, "the impact of Fukushima exceeds Chernobyl."
The news comes amidst a tsunami of devastating revelations about the Fukushima disaster and the crumbling future of atomic power, along with a critical Senate funding vote today:
Fukushima's owner, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, has confirmed that fuel at Unit One melted BEFORE the arrival of the March 11 tsunami.
This critical revelation confirms that the early stages of that melt-down were set in motion by the earthquake that sent tremors into Japan from a relatively far distance out to sea.
Virtually all of Japan's 55 reactors sit on or near earthquake faults. A 2007 earthquake forced seven reactors to shut at Kashiwazaki. Japan has ordered shut at least two more at Hamaoka because of their seismic vulnerability.
Numerous reactors in the United States sit on or near major earthquake faults. Two each at Diablo Canyon and San Onofre, California, are within three miles of major fault lines. So is Indian Point, less than 40 miles from Manhattan. Millions of people live within 50 miles of both San Onofre and Indian Point.
On January 31, 1986, the Perry reactor, 35 miles east of Cleveland on Lake Erie, was damaged by an earthquake rated between 5.0 and 5.5 on the Richter Scale---orders of magnitude weaker than the one that struck Fukushima, and that could hit the sites in California, New York and elsewhere around the globe.
TEPCO has confirmed that at least three of the Fukushima reactors---Units One, Two and Three---have suffered at least partial fuel melts. In at least one case, the fuel has melted through part of the inner containment system, with molten radioactive metal melting through to the reactor floor. A wide range of sources confirm the likelihood that fission may still be proceeding in at least one Fukushima core. The danger level is disputed. But it clearly requires still more commitment to some kind of cooling regime that will send vast quantities of water into ocean.
At least one spent fuel pool---in Unit Four---may have been entirely exposed to air and caught fire. Reactor fuel cladding is made with a zirconium alloy that ignites when uncovered, emitting very large quantities of radiation. The high level radioactive waste pool in Unit Four may no longer be burning, though it may still be general. Some Fukushima fuel pools (like many in the United States) are perched high in the air, making their vulnerability remains a serious concern. But a new report by Robert Alvarez indicates the problem in the US may be more serious that generally believed.
Unit Four is tilting and may be sinking, with potentially devastating consequences. At least three explosions at the site have weakened critical structures there. Massive leakages may have softened the earth and undermined some of the buildings' foundations. Further explosions or aftershocks---or a fresh earthquake---could bring on structural collapses with catastrophic fallout.
TEPCO has now confirmed that there are numerous holes in the containment covering Unit Two, and at least one at Unit One. The global nuclear industry has long argued that containments are virtually impenetrable. The domes at Fukushima are of very similar design and strength as many in the US.
The health impacts on workers at Fukushima are certain to be devastating.
After Chernobyl, the Soviet government sent more than 800,000 draftees through the seething wreckage. Many stayed a matter of 90 seconds or less, running in to perform a menial task and then running out as quickly as possible.
Despite their brief exposure, these "liquidators" have suffered an epidemic of health effects, with an escalating death toll. Angry and embittered, they played a significant role in bringing down the Soviet Union that doomed them.
At Fukushima, a core of several hundred workers essentially sacrificed themselves in the early stages of the disaster. They courageously entered highly contaminated areas to perform tasks that almost certainly prevented an even worse catastrophe.
David Brenner, the director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University Medical Center, said of the workers: "Those are pretty brave people. There are going to be some martyrs among them'."
"I don't know of any other way to say it, but this is like suicide fighters in a war," said University of Tokyo radiology professor Keiichi Nakaga.
Unfortunately, the toll among Fukushima's workers is certain to escalate. As few as two in five being sent into the Fukushima complex are being monitored for radiation exposure. According the Mainichi Shimbun, just 1,400 workers at Fukushima had been given thorough checkups, with just 40 getting their results confirmed.
Even at that, Japanese officials have raised the allowable dosages for nuclear workers from 100 millisieverts to 250, five times what's allowed for US workers, and 125 times what reactor workers typically receive in a year.
Some 88% of Japan's reactor work force are part-timers, sparsely trained and often paid extra money to race into highly radioactive areas and then run out.
But Nobuaki Terasaka, head of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, May 16 confirmed some 4,956 cases of internal exposure to radiation among workers at reactors around the country. Of those, 4,766 were originally from Fukushima and had moved to other sites, but had re-visited the prefecture after the 3/11 disaster.
Some of the stricken workers believe they were contaminated when they returned home for their families, even though they may have stayed only briefly.
Workers at Fukushima itself report spotty testing and dangerous facilities, including a leaky earthquake-resistant building where they took their breaks. "We had our meals there, so I think radioactive substances came into our bodies," says one male worker. "We just drink beer and wash them down."
A "dead zone" around Fukushima similar to the one surrounding Chernobyl is likely in the making. According to a report published in the Japan Times, levels of contamination in areas around Fukushima are at least comparable to some around Chernobyl.
But people outside the official evacuation zone are also vulnerable. Radiation detected in Tokyo, nearly 200 miles away, at one point prompted the Japanese government to recommend mothers not use tap water to mix formula for their infants.
Nonetheless children have been observed attending schools while bulldozers were removing the radioactive soil from their playgrounds outside. Amidst global protests, the Japanese government has weakened the limits of allowable radiation exposures to children.
In the midst of the disaster, the owners of the Indian Point reactors have announced their refusal to upgrade fire protection systems which New York Attorney-General Eric Schneiderman says are "."
More than 70% of the plant remains unprotected, he says, a "reckless" practice. Schneiderman accuses federal regulators as being too cozy with the plant's owners. Schneiderman and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo want the two IP reactors shut.
Over the weekend only four of Germany's seventeen reactors were operating, but the country suffered no apparent energy shortages. Prime Minister Angela Merkel has ordered seven older reactors shut, and the rest to be closed by 2011. But six of the newer ten closed for various technical reasons.
More than 20,000 Swiss citizens rallied to demand an end to plans to build new reactors there. The Swiss government has now confirmed it will not build new reactors, another major blow to the industry, this time resulting in the cancellation of plans for at least three projects.
Japan is standing by its decision to build no more reactors, while China has put some 28 proposed projects on hold. China's reaction to Fukushima will be crucial to the future of nuclear power, as it is by far the largest potential market for new reactors. Though prevailing winds head the other way, Fukushima is relatively close to China, and some fallout has been detected there.
The Obama Administration has still produced no comprehensive monitoring of radioactive fallout coming to the United States and has provided no guidance as to how American citizens can protect themselves, except to say not to worry. Polls now show more Americans opposing new reactors than favoring them, and grassroots opposition is fierce.
But the industry is pushing ahead with demands for $36 billion in loan guarantees for new reactors, with a preliminary vote expected soon in a House Appropriations Subcommittee. Nuclear opponents are asked to call the White House and Congress steadily through the 2012 budget process.
Also, today (May 26) may see a vote in a Senate committee on a CEDA plan that would provide still more money for new nukes. Safe energy advocates are urged to call their Senators asap.
The International Atomic Energy Agency of the United Nations, has announced it sees no health effects at Fukushima. The pronouncement comes as no surprise from an agency whose mandate is focused on promoting atomic energy.
The IAEA has consistently low-balled death toll estimates at Chernobyl and regularly ignores industry critics. The pronouncement comes as the agency begins a long-term study of Fukushima's health effects. Meanwhile, a French watchdog agency has urged that 70,000 more people be evacuated from the Fukushima area. Coming from France, among the world's pro-nuclear nations, the warning is a grim reminded of how deadly the contamination surrounding Fukushima must be.
But for all the focus on land-based contamination, the continuing flood of radioactive materials into the ocean at Fukushima could have the most problematic long-term impacts. Long-term studies of radiological impacts on the seas are few and far between. Though some heavy isotopes may drop to the sea bottom, others could travel long distances through their lengthy half-lives. Some also worry that those contaminants that do fall to the bottom could be washed back on land by future tsunamis.
Tokyo Electric has now admitted that on May 10-11, at least 250 tons of radioactive liquid leaked into the sea from a pit near the intake at Unit 3, whose fuel was spiked with plutonium. According to the Japanese government, the leak contained about 100 times the annual allowable contamination.
About 500 tons leaked from Unit 2 from April 1 to April 6. Other leaks have been steady and virtually impossible to trace. "After Chernobyl, fallout was measured," says Buesseler, "from as far afield as the north Pacific Ocean."
A quarter-century later the international community is still trying to install a massive, hugely expensive containment structure to suppress further radiation releases in the wake of Chernobyl's explosion.
Such a containment would be extremely difficult to sustain at seaside Fukushima, which is still vulnerable to earthquakes and tsunamis. To be of any real use, all six reactors and all seven spent fuel pools would have to be covered.
But avenues to the sea would also have to be contained. Fukushima is much closer to the ocean than Chernobyl, so more intense contamination might be expected. But the high radiation levels being measured indicate Fukushima's most important impacts may be on marine life.
The US has ceased measuring contamination in Pacific seafood. But for centuries to come, at least some radioactive materials dumped into the sea at Fukushima will find their way into the creatures of the sea and the humans that depend on them.
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162 Comments so far
Show All"Eat all the nuclear contaminated food and drink you want, as long as you don't interfere with our profits," The Oligarchy
sadly, most of the incredibly brave workers who went into fuku in the beginning are dead men walking. few if any will survive for very long.
New readings show levels of radioisotopes found up to 30 kilometers offshore from the on-going crisis at Fukushima are ten times higher than those measured in the Baltic and Black Seas during Chernobyl.
------------------------------
Let's see, the Black and Baltic Seas appear to be some 650km from Chernobyl, not 30km. I.e., about 21X further.
That seems to have some significance for the difference in readings, suggesting that the true comparison would be that Fukushima is about half as bad, on that metric, as Chernobyl, not ten times worse.
How could you have made such an egregious error?
Scribe,
I read a news report that the two workers were decontaminated and treated for burns to the legs. They were released after a couple of days in the hospital. They did not experience generalized radiation sickness (nausea, vomiting etc).
These two men received intense beta radiation to the legs. This will cause local burning but is superficial. They also received an undocumented level of gamma radiation to the legs. They probably also got a pretty high level of whole body gamma that was also undocumented. It was obviously not enough to induce radiation sickness.
For radiation workers, the extremities have higher exposure limits than either the head, trunk or genitals. (I once received a dose of 0.13Sv to the right hand but could continue to work because my whole body dose did not exceed 0.05Sv for the year.)
Bill
Bill
They just found the bodies of two of the missing workers at Fukushima and the millions who will die from radiation poisoning aren't dead yet.
Wayne,
There were 3 workers actually killed. A crane operator at Fukushima-2 was killed by the EQ and 2 workers at Fukushima-1 were drowned in the basement of (I think) unit #2. These last 2 were initially missing and are probably the ones you are referring to. These were industrial accidents caused directly by the natural disasters and were prior to the nuclear accidents.
No one has been reported to have radiation sickness. One analysis that I saw (using the LNT model) projected statistically that 2 additional lifetime cancers will occur among the workers because of their radiation exposure. Those cancers may, but are not necessarily, fatal.
Bill
Bill
I know you would never purposly (inhale) any radioactive isotopes. You have previously stated you would not. We all know that many thosands of Japanese have inhaled deadly poisons from the plant disaster. Don't tell us they won't develop cancers because of it. Thank you, Wayne.
Then we must remember the trillions upon trillions of poisonous isotopes circling the globe now... Oh, but wait. Our EPA says they are not a problem.
"No one has been reported to have radiation sickness. " If it's not reported, then it didn't happen. Damage Control 101.
No radiation sickness reported? Just wait. The birth-defects. The still births. It is coming to the US, but the MSM will never report on it:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-disease-clusters-states.html
I've heard Bill measured Sarah Palin.
She was pretty hot.
As with so many truths about the world we inhabit, most of the people i live and work with are not paying any attention to what has happened / is happening in Fukushima. i have warned my co-workers about the possibility of a massive radioactive steam explosion upon full breach of all containment when melted cores hit the water table. Essentially, no response.
i think most of us are mentally and emotionally overwhelmed by the multiple traumas to Earth and life that our human systems are producing. We live in and identify with and rely on these human systems, so the "cognitive dissonance" of the plain truth that these systems are killing everything is simply overwhelming for our awareness.
We are all suffering from traumatic stress reaction. Our reactive defensive consciousness cannot allow itself to grasp reality.
Official silence and lies contribute to our ability to "not see" reality, but i assert that this reality is nonetheless very available to us. It is our innate human capacity for defensive traumatic stress reaction that enables official lies to have the power that they do.
Our task is to see reality, to feel the traumatic stress, to learn to see the cognitive dissonance, and to reach conclusions regarding the human systems that we inhabit, that we identify with, that sustain us, that are killing everything...
WEBWALK: I completely identify with your post. A few days ago I came to a total stop, and I knew it was the weight of all that's happening, and my inner response to it. Grief IS the appropriate reaction to the recognition of what's coming apart, much of it, for no rhyme or reason (and this applies to much of today's energy extraction technologies, added to inane warfare). Our world in many places is dying. Our world, our beloved home... each day another round of species enters the table of extinctions. Each day, another mother, father, or child grieves the loss of a loved one. Each day, another set of thousands go hungry.
Years ago I was told by a spiritual source that when I felt overwhelmed, to get into the water. Water takes much of the burden from us. This probably factors into the ritual of Baptism, or even the way Don Juan, Carlos Casteneda's teacher, would place him into a stream when his senses became overwhelmed by contact with a dimension (and its contents) beyond this one.
Sure enough, I biked over to the springs and had the magnificent sanctuary, virtually untouched by manmade "development" all to myself. And the water took away much of my sorrow, at least so that I could function... and write on.
It is no accident that so many use food to self-medicate, and hence a legion of grossly overweight citizens; or that millions rely upon anti-depressants to keep on keeping on. Then, too, there is alcohol, always the favorite device to quell or produce anger, and/or let off steam.
Does anyone know how to reach Evo Morales? I would like to send him a thank you card... his work as vanguard to an international movement intent upon drawing Earth Mother's interests onto the decision-making tables deserves respect and gratitude.
I believe that nature speaks to us, and the stream of unleashed weather anomalies is definitely a wake-up call. It becomes a real problem when those intended to wake up, instead make use of a plethora of soporific mechanisms to do their utmost to remain asleep... or unaware.
The fellow I date tells me, "Worry about yourself!" As if these things are not knocking next door to where we live! He's been taught the YOY ethos by his conservative parents, and in spite of my atttempts to permeate his boundaries with ample helpings of empathy, it is a slow process. Like chiseling a stone. As you stated, many do NOT want to know...
a beautiful post. fuku is now to water what chernobyl was to land. the devastation will be forever. we MUST shut these nukes!!!!
The estimate that I have seen from NISI is that the total release at Fukushima is about 10% of the release at Chernobyl. Chernobyl did not contaminate much open water because it is quite remote from open water. (If Chernobyl happened in the middle of Kansas it would not have contaminated either ocean significantly either).
This link is a comparison of the extent of contamination for the 2 accidents:
http://www.srp-uk.org/images/stories/pdf/Chernobyl_versus_Fukushima_Map.pdf
Bill
Sean,
I made an error. It is NISA not NISI. www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/index.html
See also http:www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/index.html
I, or anybody else, is going to be hard pressed to do a release by subtraction calculation. You would need the mass of the nuclear fuel still on site and you do not have access to the fuel for the measurement. Your only recourse, is air sampling, ground monitoring and sea monitoring which is what TEPCO has been doing.
Uranium fueled light water reactors create plutonium as they operate. Once the reactor has been in operation for a few days, there is plutonium present in the fuel. MOX fuel is mostly uranium. After the reactor fuel has been in service for several months, there will be somewhat more plutonium in the MOX fuel but the difference is minor.
In the Chernobyl exclusion zone the 3 greatest contributors to the radiation field are:
1) cesium-137
2) strontium-90
3) plutonium-240
There has been traces of plutonium found on site at Fukushima-1 that are traceable to the reactors but no where near the amount of release at Chernobyl. Most of the plutonium on site was from weapons testing, not the reactors.
This is from a FAQ at the American Nuclear Society:
"The Fukushima event rating was provisionally increased from level 5 to level 7 by Japanese officials on April 12, due to computer analyses indicating total discharged iodine-131 and caesium-137 in the early days of the event were sufficient to warrant an increased rating level. This rating increase did not reflect any new event. The radioactive release from Fukushima is very roughly estimated by Japanese officials to be about 10 percent of that released from the Chernobyl accident – with very important differences. The most important difference between Chernobyl and Fukushima is no deaths or illness among the public are expected from the Fukushima incident."
Bill
hahahahahaha yeah right!
"The most important difference between Chernobyl and Fukushima is no deaths or illness among the public are expected from the Fukushima incident."
Yeah, ok. No reason not to trust the American Nuclear Society. If you really believe that BS, then I've got a ton of land and bridges to sell you.
Thanks SR,
Daniel Goleman has a section in one of his books about the evolutionary basis of our traumatic stress reactions: While it may be of great survival value to physically "go numb" when one's leg is mauled by an animal attack, so you can flee the animal without being incapacitated by the pain in your leg; it is plainly NOT of survival value to psychically "go numb" when your entire world is being devastated by marauding industrial national and corporate capital.
Robert J. Lifton wrote about "psychic numbing" and Helen Caldicott references this concept in her efforts to get us all to stay painfully aware of the threats posed by industrial and military nukes.
A long time ago it was written that "the truth shall set you free" but not if we are reactively numb to the truth. Our awareness shuts down in "self-defense" but our reaction is not truly defending ourselves, it is leaving us open to greater manipulation and extreme peril.
"i think most of us are mentally and emotionally overwhelmed by the multiple traumas to Earth and life that our human systems are producing". I have been thinking the same thing webwalk. I try to be kind to myself and others and to laugh as much as I can to keep up strength, to avoid adrenal exhaustion and to avoid the build up of cortisol. And as Siouxrose says, I get in the water since I live in a place where one can take a hot shower or bath.
Could we write millions of postcards the world over to our so-called leaders saying: We are experiencing climate change and record earthquakes, tornados
floods. You are supposed to be intelligent people. STOP building nuclear reactors and close them all starting immediately with those on seismic faults. STOP killing the earth by extracting oil and cutting down forests. STOP being insane. STOP capitalism that makes you insane because it is not tethered to reality. Reality is air, water, soil, breathing beings, NOT money.
i agree, altho, ironically, the money is now flowing in our direction. the solartopian technologies are now cheaper, cleaner, safer & faster to install than king cong (coal, oil, nukes, gas) technologies.
a major motivation behind germany's decision to give up on nukes is that they will make HUGE sums on renewables!!!
Harvey,
I will agree that no one will get hurt and you can put up a solar panel in a matter of minutes; but you are claiming that installation of solar is cheaper than gas?
I assume this is hyperbole from your excitable nature unless you can show some evidence.
Bill
Solar is much cheaper than gas when you calculate the trillions of dollars in war dollars America has spent in stealing oil from other countries and our police state designed to maintain the status quo.
I guess that depends on your definition of reality.
thank YOU...much appreciated...see you in solartopia!!!
I wish there was an international task force of scientists and engineers prepared to treat this wound... the radiation streaming out will otherwise become a legacy to us all.
Just as Obama sat back allowing BP to deal with a different, but also disastrous wound to the Gulf of Mexico, this idea that the problem only belongs to the corporaiton that caused it works against sanity and public safety.
For all the years supposedly intelligent people have been operating nuclear plants, and/or designing nuclear weapons, is there no possible containment apparatus known that could check the ongoing damage now pouring into the sea?
This is a matter of URGENT worldwide concern, and humane nations should be putting their best minds to work in pursuit of a solution.
Yes, my concerns too. An international team of experts should have taken over in March. I wnder how much longer this horror will continue.
Thanks, Sean. I would love to look up these links but at the moment all I can focus on is Japan. I have friends and family in Japan and will be going there in a matter of weeks. Of course, I will stay far away from Fukushima but no where is far enough away at this point. Any way to avoid exposure to radiation besides what others have posted here about eating miso? Of course, fish from the Pacific is out and so is milk. Any other foods I shouldn't eat?
I'm in CT and feel as if Im not far enough away. Our neighbor VT is reporting traces of the radioactive material from Japan in its cows' milk.
"Fukushima's owner, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, has confirmed that fuel at Unit One melted BEFORE the arrival of the March 11 tsunami."
This is what the ultimate linked page says: "The results of provisional analysis show that fuel pellets melted and fell to the bottom of reactor pressure vessel at a relatively early stage in the accident."
Does anyone have a link that shows this means the fuel melted prior to the tsunami?
there is argument over this. i've edited a later version of the article to say that radiation was released prior to the tsunami hitting. the indication remains that a fuel melt was caused just by the earthquake, but there is no doubt whatsoever that there were emissions before the water hit. thanks for the observation.
Here's a link that explains this.
Japan Times
Tuesday, May 17, 2011
Water manually turned off: data
Worker error may have led to meltdown
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110517x1.html
Wow. Thanks for the link. From it:
"Worker error may have led to meltdown
By MINORU MATSUTANI and MASAMI ITO
Staff writers
The emergency cooling system for reactor 1 at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant may have been shut down manually before the tsunami hit on March 11, according to a Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman and documents recently released by the utility.
A part of the cooling system known as the isolation condenser was down for about three hours, which could have contributed to the reactor core's meltdown.
The finding upends the government's previous conclusion that the condenser was functioning normally on March 11."
No wonder they stopped showing the Simpsons in Japan.
Reset,
They lost grid power at the time of the EQ. Everything was ok until the tsunami wiped out the diesels.
Here is an extract from the log for unit #1 as reported by Japan NISA:
"March 11th 14:46 Under operation, Automatic shutdown by the earthquake
March 11th 15:42 Report based on the Article 10 (Total loss of A/C power)
March 11th 16:36 Occurrence of the Article 15 event (Inability of water injection of the Emergency Core Cooling System )
March 12th 01:20 Occurrence of the Article 15 event (Unusual rise of the pressure in PCV)
March 12th 10:17 Started to vent.
March 12th 15:36 Sound of explosion
March 12th 20:20 Started to inject seawater and borated water to the Reactor Core."
The event at 15:42, I believe, is the loss of diesels and everything goes down hill from there. The pressure rise at 01:20 would be from overheating inside the reactor. This would be the first indication of abnormality inside the reactor and approximately the earliest time that melting could have logically occurred.
Bill
Bill - Any comment on the article saying worker error may have shutdown a vital part of the cooling system PRIOR to the tsunami?
From this article > "TEPCO has now confirmed that there are numerous holes in the containment covering Unit Two, and at least one at Unit One."
Yes, "according" to TEPCO officials. The truth is units 1, 2 and 3 fuel rods have totally melted down and have bruned their way through their stainless steel containment vessels.
It will be impossible for anyone to contain the deadly radioactivity from escaping into the atmosphere and the nearby ocean until it has been totally covered with many feet of sand and concrete. Even that probably will not stop radioactive poisons from polluting ground water and then continually seeping into the ocean for many more years. The tides and wave action will take that poison around the world. It already is.
Okay Billy, come on... Give us the "good" news about this world wide catisttrophic disaster,,, or is it mark abrams turn today, or John maybe? .
I agree.
Experience has shown that officials lie about the severity of every nuclear accident.
When TEPCO admitted that Fukushima was "a seven" on the seven-point "nuke whoopsie" scale, I commented that, like Spinal Tap, soon this one would be "turned up to eleven."
--Or order of magnitude worse than Chernobyl, whatever--
This nightmare gets worse and worse. Sadly the Japanese government is making things worse. The prime minister actually told people that the fruits and veggies grown in Fukushima are safe to eat. He served his Korean counterpart strawberries grown in Fukushima! I really wonder what is going to happen to the food supply of Japan as well as the water. My heart aches for the people of Japan and of the world. Human beings keep poisoning our planet. As if the bp Oil Blow out were not enough. What is really strange to me is that life just continues as normal as if these things were not going on. So very sadly, Japan survived two nuclear bombs. Clearly they think they can survive this too. Nuclear bombs are so much worse. Another problem I see is that, you cannot see nuclear radiation. It is deadly but invisible. It is so easy to convince people that this nuclear disaster is not truly dangerous, that it will all be okay.
MOCKING: Some people DID survive Nagasaki & Hiroshima. Our forum's very own Minitrue had some exposures to testing in the Bikini Islands/South Pacific, I believe. The key question to ask is: what allows people to survive? This is what we need to circulate.
A friend of mine emailed me some data on Miso. There's also documentation about a doctor who treated people in Japan after the previous nuclear holocaust, and by removing sugar from their diets, and adding certain staples they were able to withstand their exposure to radiation.
THIS TYPE OF MATERIAL should be circulated around the world! Instead of preparing people, the fear of a mass panic has the authorities keeping mum.
If people survive this era, I suspect historians will refer to it as the Ostrich cycle... where those privy to info, instead buried it, along with their heads, in the increasingly tainted ground.
yes, there's evidence of miso helping. gary null has a good deal of material about health protection measures that can be taken. there should be a government-sponsored national forum for this kind of discussion. maybe we should start one....
Sorry, if I did not state my point clearly. Yes, I know that some people did survive the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Japan is the only country to have survived such horrific nuclear attacks. Since they survived these horrors as a country, maybe as a country (I am not speaking of individuals) they think that the nuclear melt down of a few power plants is much less by comparison.
Yes, indeed we should be asking how people survived these nuclear horrors. That is a very good question.
Mock,
I should think that, rather than comparing the nuclear accident to the WWII bombings, they would be thinking more immediately:
20,000 citizens killed, 10,000 still missing and 100,000 displaced by a natural disaster would tend to add perspective to an accident displacing 70,000 and killing no one.
Bill
Mind if I smoke?
katrinelachatte
I do believe his point may be the same as mine. Which is; if it is safe to be there in the radioactive Chernobyl area; why doesn't the Russian government allow it to be open for all and the land farmed again?
Older people who injeat or inhale radioactive isotopes are not as prone to getting cancer as younger people. Those elderly may have cancer and haven't suffered the smptoms of it or may be ignoring any they have. That isn't uncommon.
We recently had an elderly friend who seemed to be perfectly healthy except for normal old age morning joint pains. He up and died a few weeks ago in his home, I had talked to him that morning and he was fine.
The autopsy revealed his body was loaded with cancer and it killed him. He was 76,,, he beat the average odds by a few years..
If the article is true, it focuses on those who survived. Nobody has ever said that Chernobyl caused a 100% death rate. Therefore, logically speaking, there would be survivors.
It is always interesting to see why some survive an assault by environment or disease and some don't. But let us avoid real life mass experiments with radiation. Prevention is a better scientific challenge than Monday-morning-Mengele quarterbacking.
Katrine: Thanks for the data. I remember reading that a few brave souls ministered to the ill during the Bubonic Plague and also managed to NOT come down with the illness. I think the answer is based on strength of mind/will, diet, lifestyle, AND genetics... added to exposures. Science can never measure variables like the strength of an individual's will. Some experiments with prayer or the power of positive thinking DID SHOW positive changes, i.e. statistical enhancements to the healing process...still, the day science can tap and control this resource, is the day of yet another horror.
How do you equate a post that calls another poster a liar three times with "sincere reflections"?
Well, I'm familiar with the postings that got katrine booted off of CD in February and I never saw a post accusing her of being a psy-op. I don't find her unsubstantiated accusations "compellingly believable."
Perhaps katrine can supply a link to the post(s) she is talking about.
I don't think going around attacking other posters while crying, "Victim" is a viable strategy. You got kicked off CD in early February, first under katrine, then under katrine bastet, because you were attacking others, much like you are doing now.
Perhaps you'd care to explain why you, and not the people who were "lying" about you, got bounced off CD.
"But it's time to back off."
Ah, something we can agree on.
Gee, I thought you were really going to back off instead of continuing to post your harassment fantasies.
Tell you what, I'll ignore your posts and you ignore mine.
You can start now.