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I'll Show You My Taxes, If You Show Me Yours
I’m long past being interested in having most experts on American values and policy tell me what I should do and what I should think. Many who claim expertise do so with little or no vetting in terms of disclosure of potential conflicts of interest. Before anyone lectures me with their superior take on my nation’s needs or diminishes my rights or slashes the public budgets that fund so many pubic goods and services, I want to see how much that expert pays in taxes. If his or her personal tax rate is little or nothing, I will take the advice offered on wider issues as potentially tainted information provided by a source with a vested interest very different than my own.
Even when experts lecture in certain public institutions or settings they are often required to sign disclosures of the potential conflicts of interest related to their entanglements with those from whom they might financially benefit. Politicians have to file campaign finance reports. I wish we’d add a few disclosure requirements about personal tax rates.
For me, taxes are my stand in solidarity with all the other people with whom I share space in my community, state and nation to pool our resources and make our lives safer, cleaner and better. I cannot afford to fix a pothole much less build a whole road, but I am pleased when I drive on a safe and well-maintained roadway. I cannot buy a fire truck or an ambulance, but I sure am glad that together we can. I certainly cannot educate a room full of children.
I think sometimes when we hear people object to paying taxes, they are forgetting the very real everyday benefits of making sure we do pay our fair share. That’s where the rub comes in for many of us. We’ve all read recently more about the most egregious examples of corporate avoidance of tax payment, ala G.E. and many of their best friends forever in the corporate world, but we may not know that many of the individuals protecting those tax dodging corporations are right there in the non-tax-paying club with them.
By the time I add up all the taxes I pay on my income, through state and local taxes and as a renter whose rent certainly funds the real estate tax for the owner of my rental home, my personal tax rate easily exceeds 25 percent (perhaps more if I had those teams of folks in my back room looking at all the ways I pay). I am not objecting to that. I am in a position in life where I cannot afford to take on the personal risks of home ownership nor would the same banks that loan the formerly bankrupt Donald Trump ever consider loaning the formerly bankrupt Donna Smith a dime for a mortgage, so I am fine with being the money behind making sure real estate taxes are paid for the owner of my rental home. I believe paying taxes is good for all of us.
I just want to know before anyone else looks down his or her nose at me if they are supporting the public good at the same level that I do. I am a shareholder in my community, my state and my nation with significant skin in the game. I want full disclosure from all of those who spend and enjoy the fruits of my labor. I want to know that our investment in outcomes is vested in essentially the same general range. I’d rather know that people with little or no money really pay less than those with so much. But, for now, it would be great to know that fairness in terms of payment and the ability to be heard as a primary stakeholder was a given.
I’d wear a button that said “25% and proud to be taxed” if I thought others would have to tell me what percentage of their own incomes they give to promote the common good and public welfare. Right now, though, I’ll bet some of the well-to-do folks I know would think me a fool for paying so much – a chump who hasn’t found the loopholes – and many might refuse to tell me what they actually pay in taxes.
Taxes aren’t among the issues causing great trauma in my life. The greatest assaults on my personal freedoms have come from those who pay the least in taxes (the corporations and the wealthy) who make the policies that injure me or diminish the value of what I have contributed. I just want to clearly see for myself who is paying just how much. Then I can assess for myself what that mayor or that governor or that Congressional member or that President or that corporate CEO hopes to achieve in terms of fiscal policy and all the impacts that flow from those policies.
Because healthcare and seeing healthcare extended to all is my primary area of interest, I think if we all saw the taxes paid or not paid by those healthcare industry “stakeholders,” I’d be willing to bet there is a directly opposite relationship between those who are setting the policies and those paying the bills both public and private.
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21 Comments so far
Show AllHere's my tax story. I got my 12 months of social security and when all was said and done...I need not bother filing. Can you live on six thousand nine hundred thirty dollars? a year? That's how I don't file...and if I were a millionaire, I could file and get a bunch of money from the government. And stiff someone in the process.
I thought you always have to file.
No, you don't.
Income limits re who must file:
http://www.1040.com/site/federaltaxes/taxfilingbasics/whomustfile/tabid/215/default.aspx
Info re who may want to file even if they don't have to (and much other stuff):
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch01.html#en_US_2010_publink1000170439
Before I turned off the CBS Sunday morning programming of the plebs show in disgust, I got to watch the CATO, Liars for the rich, institute in action. Befroe they started lying, a history of the income tax on the rich was shown. 94% tax rate after WWII, that continued to slowly drop until reagan (Doesn't deserve to be capitalized anymore) really slashed it. Next the statistics given saying that average people pay something like 25% of their income to taxes while the rich pay 17%. Then a lying SOB from CATO came on to say we shouldn't blame the rich because the tax code is written to give breaks to average people. I yelled at the TV and turned it off in total anger and disgust.
I really don't understand the irresponsible greed of the rich. When I was working I made pretty good money, and I never thought I was paying too much in income tax. Although I did think property taxes were a little in the high side up in CT, but I payed them to support the good schools in our town. I even got mad when I hit the Social Security max late in the year and they stopped taking out deductions. I thought to myself, WTF I can afford to keep paying into SS.
I truly and honestly can not wrap my head around the fact that there are people out there that make staggeringly more money than I ever did and fight to get their taxes cut. These people should be run out of the f*ing country. If you don't want to pay your taxes to support this society, then GET THE F*** OUT you worthless sick, evil, parasites.
I saw that Ben Stein thing. It all has to do with the psychopathology of extremely rich people. I'll repost part of this that i put up couple weeks ago:
In a life that has allowed me to see a great many "varieties of human experience" (without much in the way of accomplishment), I've met some very rich people -- in Palm Springs, where my parents had a photo studio during the early 70s. Mom, who did the bookkeeping, always said the richer they were, the harder it was to get them to pay their bill. Rich people talked about their expensive purchases a lot and not much else. If any of them had ever been poor or even middle class, they never mentioned it and had no understanding what money might mean to people who actually needed it, how trifling sums to them could actually be crucial to someone else, yet they seemed to be afraid that all their money might suddenly vanish. They acted as if asking them to part with money that they weren't choosing to spend might make it all start slipping away. They never, to my recollection, said a word about how they came to be so rich. They never questioned or seemed to doubt their absolute right to be where they were or have what they had, although to be fair they did do a lot of charitable stuff that my Mom wrote a book about. It's no mystery to me why they resist paying their "fair share" of the tax burden. They're afraid "envious people" will take it all.
I don't remember who it was, but a very rich man gave a talk at a business school in the last year, and said the he made his money the old fashioned way. He inherited it.
I wish all US taxpayers could read this article. I know it's a pie-in-the-sky idea, but wouldn't it be great if in the last week of the federal tax deadline every taxpayer wore a button showing the percentage of tax the person paid. Obomber should lead the way.
Maybe people wouldn't mind paying taxes so much if they could decide where their taxes would go to. For example: Infrastructure- 49%, free healthcare and education- 50%, defense- 1%, and so on.
ezeflyer,
Yes!!! I definitely like those percentages!
Bill in Dubuque
ezeflyer
Your story as well as Ms. Smith's and the other commenters is reminiscent of a passage in Steven Hill's excellent book Europe's Promise: Why the European Way Is The Best Hope In An Insecure Age where Hill writes about a friend of his who lives in Sweden and who along with his Swedish wife was visiting New York City. Hill's friend and his wife were taking a cab to the theater district which they happened to share with then-Senator John Breaux a conservative anti-tax Democrat from Louisiana. When Breaux finds out that the American's wife is Swedish he sneeringly comments about "all those taxes the Swedes pay." The American replied: "The problem with Americans and their taxes is that we get nothing for them." He then informed Breaux of all the benefits that the Swedes get for their taxes. Hill's friend then told Breaux that:
"If Americans knew what Swedes receive for their taxes, we would probably riot."
Perhaps not surprisingly, Breaux declined to comment further on this subject during the remainder of the trip which he himself in his arrogance had initiated.
Of course there is a disconnection between 'bought & paid for politicians' (policy setters) and the general citizenry (bill payers public & private). I would say welcome to: THE NEW WILD WEST, but the author, Donna Smith, probably won't believe me, as she pins her badge of tax paying honor, probably right next to her little American Flag pin.
It has been well known, long time now, the leadership of this country is corrupted, negligent, secretive, irresponsible, murderous even..literally rotten to the core. I especially don't support such corrupt behavior, with my money, and work.
I have a daily choice: support the immature killers or not. I chose: NO income tax support from me, NO WTO, NO NAFTA, NO privitization of gov. responsibilities, NO $700B swindle, NO Obama, NO McCain, NO Bush, NO Pelosi, NO Franks, NO Friedman Disaster Capitalism, NO Police State, NO to the US Supreme court that has corrupt judgement.
I realized that the fiat dollar, money in your hand is nothing, a token, a lie, it a marker which at one time had value, & honour, and trust...again welcome to: THE NEW WILD WEST, where the honour is reversed, the token is drenched in human blood, and I choose not to support that badge.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours...if you don't believe me, go quickly to your local strippers haven, take your 'tax payers badge' and pin it on righteously! Have a few drinks and look at the waste, fine daughters and granddaughters and mothers and my family, dance in dishonour, not to 'support the troops', but to buy their safe place, with alittle food, to just get by, the trouble is...they get good at it.
whocares;)
CBS News had Ben Stein give his new conservative version of fairness and reform. He told us, as the responsible adult in the room, that yes the rich would have to accept some increase in taxes but we, the average tax payer would have to accept that "reforms" to our entitlements, Medicare and Social Security, were needed also
I think conservatives have been put on the defensive with the growing groundswell of objection to tax cuts for the rich as the path to economic prosperity. Even more powerful than a call for redistribution of wealth with all its Marxist overtones is the demand that the rich pay their fair share. The right will fall back against this and regroup. Their new mantra will be that yes, we the rich, will pay a little more.in taxes, letting our marginal rate go up 3% if you the average wage earner cut back on your "entitlements." There now--isn't that fair? And Barrack, even after extending tax cuts for the rich, is shifting to this stance. That alone should make us suspicious. Barrack's tax plan is three to one balanced on spending cuts and "reforms of entitlements" and we on the progressive side are supposed to be mollified because all the burden is not put on us.
I am not mollified, even if it is somewhat satisfying to see our president avoid a hard right position. I am not content because I still don't see this compromise as a workable solution to the ills of our society. It is not because of envy that I want the rich to pay more and to see a shift in the government towards social spending and investment. It is not even a motive of big heartedness or, dare I use the word, " liberality" that motivates me. I am motivated to see change in government because I do not think a society where 1% control 40% of the wealth while basic needs of its citizenry, (ex. health care) are denied will long endure. It is not just moral outrage that our Representative government has been so corrupted by those who have the wealth that it can no longer serve its citizenry but the sure knowledge that such a system of government is not stable or legitimate. Our government not only has ceased to work for us, the average citizen but it will not even work for the rich in the long run. A day of reckoning will come and when it does it will be terrible for all. Maybe the rich will find a way to elude the convulsion of righteous anger that always makes its sporadic appearance on the historical stage to demand justice but I doubt it. I would tell the rich that it is in their enlightened self interest to be content with a smaller share of a stable and growing pie. I would tell the rich that seeing to it that the average citizen has health care, a decent job, a chance at a good education is what will insure stability and hence their wealth. But then, who among the rich have ever listened to such talk.
The super rich have become Colonial Overlords. We are the natives/peasants who are mined for our natural resources and labor much as India was. The Overlords and our treasonous fellow citizens who provide supervision of their economic colony have retreated behind gated and walled communities where they have private police/security while they withdraw from any finanicial participation in the society. Within these walled communities they have all the benefits of society: police, schools, libraries, parks, fire protection all paid for using general tax revenue collected from their commons. Outside those walls we are increasingly denied these things as the rich refuse to contribute their tax dollars for support of the commons. Those services are increasingly being made available through private companies owned by the rich for a price. Privatization is their mantra and We The People Suffer as we retreat into a feudal nightmare, sometimes refered to as Neo Liberalism. Its' philosophy is sometimes called Libertarianism and its' patron saint is for some Ayn Rand although the Tea Baggers would prefer Saint Sarah. They have no clue what they support.
Unless their is a solution through the ballot box it is just a matter of time before
there is a revolt. A hot revolt.
TAMMONS & RaZOR: Excellent posts.
We would be better served by wearing our salaries on our foreheads. The elite continue to discourage if not altogether ban discussing our wages with coworkers or anyone else. If we the people would defy them and clearly convey what we are being paid, some of us would adjust our mindsets and behave in a different manner. As long as we are afraid to do that, the slavemasters know we will continue to work for nothing and pretend we are valuable...
Everyone knows that one starts paying tax after about $7500-10,000 earnings, but there is virtually nothing said in common discourse to address the squalor that likely leaves a person in, until they can better that to 25, 35, or even 50k. Compare with the wealthy, who can report little or no salary while "earning" a fortune doing nothing of value for the public (really stealing from the public).
Walk through the wealthy neighborhoods of any town. Do we need to know what those with great estates "earn" to recognize inequality? Remember those stories where local governments force people out of their homes by eminent domain, "for the public good", and then award it to corporations for pennies on the dollar? They could take larger tracts of land from the wealthy (not destroying their lives) and really do good for the public.
I don't mind paying taxes if I get better benefits. With my measly income last year (at least I had one then, as a full-time employee), I still contributed $584 to the wars-- that's $584 too much, if you ask me but then no one did. I'd rather contribue MORE in taxes and get universal health care and be assured I could avoid being homeless when I'm old.
Size matters!
After seeing a breakdown of how/what percentage of my taxes go to (http://www.investorguide.com/taxtrackr/) or (http://www.thirdway.org/taxreceipt)
I would happily pay double for certain things like universal healthcare and education and food for hungry people! It is a pittance of what those are worth for quality of life, and I'd be happy to see them doubled so they covered everyone and educated our young to the same levels as European children. No one gives me that choice and if i were to actually donate to them, because my $2 or $20 is so small it wouldn't change things for them at all. It takes the whole community to accrue the numbers needed - in the meantime my taxes pay for the military industrial complex and that makes me mad. Some complain about their 2 cents on a dollar going to feed school children or Planned Parenthood - but 30 cents out of every dollar is going to kill people all over the world which has nothing to do with me and is completely against my beliefs...
How's your health, Donna Smith?
I recall that during the great and absurd health care "debate" it was a bit precarious.
As for taxes, I had to ask the IRS to please figure out what I owe, because after being heavily drugged during a hospitalization emergency I lost the capacity to do higher math. Let alone understand the nearly-quarter-inch-thick 1040 manual.
Bureaucratese became gibberish to me. I turned to photography, which requires certain math skills, like calculating how much light is likely to pass through a lens, but this almost never requires writing down a CERTAIN figure. Once the picture is taken and "developed," changes can be made.
Funny how the average American cannot do that with taxes, while the big corporations can change their picture anytime they want.
On a tiny Social Security pension I came into a one-time modest inheritance, which ought to have been a relatively simple matter, but when I started reading the 1040 manual, I realized that Al Gore is really a modern Moses in disguise as he and others have converted the planetary turbulence to a bunch of numbers that I am sure they all understand.
I look forward to the IRS telling me that I have no right to tell them that I cannot figure out what I owe them, and that I should have paid some trustworthy outfit like H&R Block. Every year, millions of Americans anguish over what could be a much more simple system. Meanwhile, the wealthy hire others to hide their wealth from taxation.
What a country.
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