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Is Fascism Lurking?
Fascism
is one of those words that sounds like it belongs in the past,
conjuring up, as it does, marching jack boots in the streets,
charismatic demagogues like Italy's Mussolini or Spain's Franco
and armed crackdowns on dissent and freedom of expression.
It is a term we are used to reading in histories about World War II--not in news stories from present day America.
And yet the word, and the dark reality behind it, is creeping into popular contemporary usage.
Radical activists on the left have never been hesitant to label their opponents with this "F word" whenever governments support laws that limit opposition or overdo national security or abuse human rights. Government paranoia turns critics paranoid.
One example: writer Naomi Wolf forecast fascism creeping into America during the Bush years accelerated by the erosion of democracy, writing:
"It is my argument that, beneath our very noses, George Bush and his administration are using time-tested tactics to close down an open society. It is time for us to be willing to think the unthinkable - as the author and political journalist Joe Conason, has put it, that it can happen here."
Wolf feared Americans couldn't see the warning signs:
"Because Americans like me were born in freedom, we have a hard time even considering that it is possible for us to become as unfree - domestically - as many other nations. Because we no longer learn much about our rights or our system of government - the task of being aware of the constitution has been outsourced from citizens' ownership to being the domain of professionals such as lawyers and professors - we scarcely recognize the checks and balances that the founders put in place, even as they are being systematically dismantled. Because we don't learn much about European history, the setting up of a department of "homeland" security - remember who else was keen on the word "homeland" - didn't raise the alarm bells it might have."
Now, those bells are now being rung by John Hall, an outgoing Democratic Congressman from upstate New York. His fear of fascism has less to do with repressive laws and militarism than the influx of corporate money into politics, swamping it with special interests that buy influence for right wing policies and politicians.
"I learned when I was in social studies class in school that corporate ownership or corporate control of government is called Fascism," he told the New York Observer. "So that's really the question-- is that the destination if this court decision goes unchecked?"
Reports New York's Observer, "The court decision he is referring to is Citizens United, the controversial Supreme Court ruling that led to greater corporate spending in the midterm elections, much of it anonymous. In the wake of the decision, Democrats tried to pass the DISCLOSE Act, which would have mandated that corporate donors identify themselves in their advertising, but the measure failed amid GOP opposition. Ads from groups with anonymous donors were particularly prone to misleading or false claims."
Hall said the influx of corporate money in the wake of Citizens United handed the House of Representatives to Republicans. "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
Many in mainstream politics who understand that big money can dominate elections although not in every case share Hall's fears. In California, two well-known female candidates from the corporate world raised millions but still went down in defeat.
So money alone is not the be all and end all of a shift towards a red white and blue brand of fascism. Other ingredients are needed and some may be on the way-like an economic collapse, defeat in foreign wars, rise in domestic terrorism and the emergence of a right-wing populist movement that puts order before justice and wants to crush its opponents
Some argue we have just such a movement in the Tea Party although other critics focus on the rise of the Christian right that promotes fundamentalist politics in the name of God.
The Tea Party is not just after Democrats; it has started a campaign against the liberal Methodist Church. It is not internally democratic either with no elected officers or set of by by-laws. It seems to be managed and manipulated by shadowy political operatives and PR firms, financed by a few billionaires who support populism to defang it.
Already militias are forming because of fears of immigration, and there is also concern that if unemployment remains high there is likely to be more violence with police forces understaffed because of government cutbacks. Gun sales went up after the recent violent incidents in Arizona.
The erosion of economic stability with the rise of foreclosures and the shredding of social services is already turning a financial crisis into a social one.
We already have sharp partisan divide and inflation of hateful rhetoric with vicious putdowns of the President and condemnations by members of Congress calling him corrupt, even a traitor.
According to set of the characteristics of fascist nations, there is "a disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
"In place of human rights enemies are turned into scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists." This process is already far along in the USA.
Among the classical characteristics of fascism is a shutting down of debate and a focus on the state--which in our country is controlled by lobbyists and private interests. Wall Street and the military-industrial complex have far more clout than elected officials.
In the past, during the depression, there was a plot to overthrow Franklin Delano Roosevelt. It was exposed and neutered. Could something like that happen again?
Maybe it doesn't have to, what with hawks already in control of Congress, major media outlets, the military and poised to slash the power of unions and curb progressive social programs including public education.
Several writers believe that if and when fascism comes to America it will be packaged in a friendly form tied to beneficial advertising slogans and public interest messaging. It will be sold, 1984-style as being unavoidable, even cool, and in our best interest.
Louisiana Senator Huey Long, a mesmerizing agitator, once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism."
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267 Comments so far
Show AllGreat article, Danny Schechter, except:
You state that "Government paranoia turns critics paranoid", then you cite an example: Naiomi Wolf (who essentially observes the same signs and makes the same arguments that you do). So what's up with that? Are you and Naiomi paranoid or not? I think not, but I would like to hear what you think.
Google The Sagebrush Philosopher and read his latest blog posted yesterday. Quite relevant to this article.
Is it LURKING?? Yeesh, shake hands with it -- it's HERE! It hasn't put both feet in the door yet, but it's got one inside. Of course, the STUPID PEOPLE in this country are cheering it on completely believing in our form of Hitler's Nazi Germany.
Fascism has arrived. These are two relevant articles from yesterday's Asia Times.
Masters of hate locked and loaded
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MA13Ak03.html
Giant weapons maker becomes Big Brother
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MA14Ak02.html
When the so-called economy collapses, then the velvet glove will come off the iron fist.
I'm always surprised how much time is spent on arguing over labeling this or that person or problem and blaming this or that person or problem for what is wrong with life at the moment. It really doesn't matter what you want to call it - the majority of people are negatively being effected by the shift into overdrive of the theft of the commons' privilege and property by the wealthy and/or governing elite in this country and most "free market" systems globally.
WE have but one power to affect this state of affairs and it is not through using the already bought and sold system to change it. The power of the purse is ours - buy and continue to support the status quo; don't buy and affect the bottom line - at least in a market system such as ours at the moment.
The problem is, and it's amply displayed here and at any progressive protest of the recent past, is people, who basically agree, arguing the fine points of what the hole in the boat means, who put it there, how big is it, what to call it, can we all agree to work together to plug it, maybe it's a natural occurrence and we should just accept it, and there really should be further meetings and discussions of what to do about the hole, etc. - all the while the boat is sinking and we will all be under water soon and die, making the lack of doing something to plug the hole now so we at least stop sinking further (and still be able to have discussions and analysis) a real tragedy.
Until WE can come together in action as a large enough group, able to put aside differences of largely nuance, nothing positive is going to change. The big question and challenge is how to get enough people to act in concert to make a change. If we want to change the behavior of a corporation we have to affect their income - big oil companies - set aside a day a week of not buying gas or petroleum products. Mega food GM companies - set aside a day of not buying food (fasting occasionally is actually good for your health by the way). Mega Banks - move your money into a local credit union, stop using credit cards a couple of days a week or at all, etc. Acting individually, is of course necessary to any change and you can do it just for yourself no matter its effect on the target, but we really do have to find a way to act in larger groups to prevent being picked off one at a time. A couple of people not paying their income tax will be easily dealt with, harshly, by the government, but a whole lot of people not paying that tax will have an effect not so easily dealt with in a harsh manner.
The time is fast approaching when these kinds of actions will make no difference because we will be forced to do things and pay for things with refusal at basic levels being punishable with violence and loss. Currently, the black-suited swat police will trounce you at a protest, but can't do much if you don't buy gas, or food, or pay your taxes. That can and will change unless we act soon. WE have ample history throughout the world and plenty of current global examples of how bad this can get and how this story ends. Arguing amongst ourselves of what to call it and label it while it gets worse and worse is not going to solve or prevent anything and enables those responsible and profiting to continue without interference.
One last note - isn't it also interesting how often people quote Orwell and refer to "1984" and that horror but rarely mention "Animal Farm", which is about as relevant to what's going on as it gets? If you want a play book and blow by blow of how this system, and any system of government eventually plays the people, that is it.
Yeah, and they cheered for the Star Wars and Lord of the Rings series without ever recognizing themselves! None so blind as those who will not see (and especially if your welfare depends on NOT seeing what's going on around you - that was popular in not only Nazi Germany, but the occupied countries as well.)
I've already cut back on everything possible - but then I'm retired, and can do so more easily than others. What I can't do easily is leave the country - although I'm considering move elsewhere in this country - closer to Canada, maybe. (Not because Canada is better, but because nobody cares what you do out in the wilderness, although I don't know if my survivalist training will suffice in old age...)
Thank you for calm and reasoned presentation of the rise of fascism in America. Passionate patriotism is another aspect of fascism. US flags flying everywhere, stickered to car bumpers, pinned to lapels. That, too, is frightening. Along with this is the mob's demand that everyone conform in this display of patriotism. Another sign of fascism is people starting to take protective actions. Buying guns is mentioned. But Americans are opening foreign bank accounts. Buying land in foreign countries. Getting their US passports and, if possible, other national passports as well. And Americans are emigrating. For the first time ever, in 2010, the number of people caught crossing the Canadian border illegally through the woods, has been greater for those leaving the USA than for those entering the USA.
Everyone must keep in mind that the only reason that someone could possibly raise this question in this present country is due to the pervasive, insidious and ingenious use of propaganda through our media.
Of course, fascism is already here, but through the careful and subtle manipulation and framing of discourse in this country by the corporate elite and their lackeys, it can always be "truthfully" said that civil discourse is still alive and kicking in America while in reality all we are witnessing is a intricate simulacrum of an open society.
The key words for the this "soft" fascism and ones which everyone should remember are: PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY.
What do I mean?
Why do you think the media engages in this charade 24/7?
Why not just overtly control us and give us our orders?
Because it's too messy and prone to systemic instability.
Instead, we have thousands of interviews, experts, sound bites, Congressional hearings, pundits etc etc etc continuously framing issues and engaging in "debate" so that not only does the appearance of democratic activity continue on but - more importantly - plausible deniability is constructed for all of their illegal acts.
For example, the creation of think tanks that provide cover for combating any issue under the sun - if one expert can come up with a study that supports the elite position - no matter how specious/laughable - the elite have a plausibly deniable excuse for their actions.
The same thing goes for all of the pundits, analysts, propagandists, Congressmen, Senators.
Have you ever asked yourself how someone could say something so outrageously untrue or crazy?
You can bet your ass that that person is laying the groundwork for someone else in the "knows" benefit.
Death panels?
Swift boat?
Don't count the votes?
Global warming is a hoax?
Tax cuts create jobs?
The list is endless but the purpose is all the same.
To advance the fascist agenda by providing cover aka plausible deniability to TPTB.
A crazy statement, a bullshit hearing, a non-sensical theory?
Be assured that someone in the elite will use it too further advance their agenda all the while claiming - hey, it wasn't me who said it, or I'm just repeating what someone else said, or Dr. So and So of the Heritage Foundation says...
This is why people can still question whether fascism is here or not.
It's here in a form so perfected that the vast majority of Americans don't recognize it.
The situation we are in is much worse than fascism.
I would agree in the sense that we as a society are increasingly losing the actual ability to see reality.
The methods are overlords use are quite simple and effective.
In the face of unpleasant facts, they are either ignored or, more insidiously, the neoliberal philosophic system with its thousands of respected minions and abettors will furnish an explanation that all in the propagandasphere will quickly and seamlessly coalesce around.
Just look at how quick the response to the Gifford shooting was.
Within minutes a narrative was constructed and relayed through the various mouthpieces.
Since everyone in any position of power believes in the "system", the defense of said system is instantaneous and need not be coordinated.
However, when events of a large nature happen where specific details and descriptions are needed "cracks" and inconsistencies can be observed.
A review of the media coverage of 9/11 provides ample evidence of the system's failures when confronted with a large event. However, those "cracks" are then quickly smoothed over in the ensuing days and thus cease to have ever existed.
Maybe the terms ultra or hyper-fascism would better describe our situation, but in the end that'll be up to the historians to decide for us.
Wealthy business owners and corporations have been married to and have controlled this so-called "representative democracy" and "republic" since the very beginning.
Must-see Anti Fascism film from 1947... 18 minutes
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2010/10/anti-facist-film-1947
How did we not see it coming? Everybody will ask.
I define fascism as a system in which an authoritarian government aligns itself with the large corporations in a society. The alliance is one that is dominated by the authoritarian government.
Our present situation is different. There is certainly an alliance between large corporations and our government. That alliance is certainly stronger between the corporations and the Republican party, but does not exclude the Democratic Party. More and more, corporations and the huge sums of money they can infuse into the electoral process has put the corporations in a position of dominance.
If we remember Eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex, it suggests that the corporations may be able to hold the upper hand for the foreseeable future.
I'm reminded of a Twain comment that history does not repeat so much as it rhymes. So maybe the system should be called corporatism instead of fascism this time, but the results will no doubt be familiar.
Before I even started to read I was laughing...LURKING???
When you are in a brightly lit place and the rapist has a gun to your head, you call that lurking???
In your phrasing that follows, you cite items that already are in place in what I perceive as full-fledged fascism:
"According to set of the characteristics of fascist nations, there is "a disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
"In place of human rights enemies are turned into scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists." This process is already far along in the USA"
There is no doubt that people, even average Joes like myself and my new-york-commoners-law.com and dons-review.com, are afraid to comment openly in office situations. Commenting in print, as here and elsewhere, takes courage. The jackboots could come during the night. Your column reminds one of a dysfunctional family in which a bully mother or father tells everyone that his abuse is "needed" for the family or a child to attain excellence or monetary gain. Other family members look the other way and aid the obvious abuse. SLowly it becomes commonplace, so that it is not seen, except by visitors to the family. Or, as after World War II, when the "good Germans" "woke up" from their rationalizations when Allied troops showed them what they knew all the time: that the weird odor coming from behind those trees was, indeed, burning bodies.
We wouldn't be in this situation if the 'professional left' and American progressives actually had the cajones to stand up and be heard – to stand up, come together and do something real.
But we're part of the problem, because we've become a frightened, passive, and unorganized group of do-practically-nothings. Sure, Obama betrayed us, took us for fools, but really – We Don't Need Obama. We have reason, truth, vision, evidence – we are in the right, but out on our asses in the cold.
This is no indictment of the heroes, and heroic actions of progressives, liberals and leftist activists of the past, but in the last twenty years, we've basically been behaving like a dog rolling onto its back. Yeah, we'll get the paper when asked, and bark a bit at the neighbors, but when the hell will progressives actually get the guts to do something meaningful?
Lurking? How naive...
In 1928 Edward Bernays (nephew of Sigmund Freud's nephew), darling of the business world and advertising profession, wrote:
"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits."
…and,
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."
This philosophy, explained in depth in Edward's book titled Propaganda, has been the foundation and driving force of our modern culture for over 50 years...and still many speculate whether fascism is "lurking". Oh please. Modern fascism is well entrenched and we all create/sustain it every day.
By 1950, modern fascism was in place and in full gear. It's been progressively ramped up and refined every since. Those that can't see the forest for the trees aren't paying close enough attention... they've been hypnotized by modern fascism's carefully strategized blinding media illusions that have been precisely designed by highly trained specialists in order to disguise their motives, condition us as consumer units, and create sustained demand for things we don't need that destroy the ecosphere, poison our bodies, clog up our mind, and ultimately break our hearts - while making the greedy and aggressive among us rich and powerful. The storm troopers have established outposts in our consciousness through the doorway of our media devices. Lurking? Not. lol...
.
Yes, Bernays and the Rockefeller research has been used for propaganda. But that's not the same as fascism - things were quite different in the '50s, and I do remember. There simply wasn' the means to deploy propaganda as efficiently then - people weren't glued to TV sets, or radios, and even so, independent sources were available, especially in the newspapers. Millions of veterans - many with foreign wives - returned to the US, so it wasn't that easy to pull the wool over people's eyes. It was a different time - and we had Eisenhower (No braintrust, but basically honest.), who had seen what propaganda and fascism could do (just as many soldiers had seen first-hand).
I also know about fascism - there was no fascism here in the '50s. Yes, there was a goodly segment of the population that had supported fasicsm - Hitler - including many wealthy and influential families, but that had been true in other countries as well. Fascist parties still exist in many countries - most of which are quite socialist (social-democrat) in nature. What WAS going on - and this started during WWII - was the purging of socialists. McCarthyism targeted socialists as well as former communists, but that was about the extent of it in the US. The only really bad propaganda was regarding the USSR - pure 100% BS (even Ike didn't know the truth - I'm glad my father did, but then his father served in the Russian Army.) The OSS morphed into the CIA and the war against socialism went into full swing - all over the world. Millions of socialists were killed - the first great 'genocide' committed by the US - which was emerging one of the great military powers of the times. Emerging democracies were destroyed because of 'socialist' leanings - is that what you're calling 'fascism'?
Armybrat
Excellent comments. Regarding your last question, what should not be overlooked is how the right wing will try to subvert the meaning of this word by claiming that fascism has been basically continued by liberals in this country as evidenced by this book by Jonah Goldberg. And so many gullible Americans end up accepting without question this propaganda by those on the right.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295054968&sr=1-1
well said...such a large topic...the basic philosophical purpose of life...
was it Buddha who said the ultimate sin was the avoidance of one's own work?
the core problem: the violent control the resources, and dole them out, at cost, to the non-violent as desired...
unless and until the land is reclaimed from the self-titled bankers and their armed henchmen, the populace has little hope for the future but meaningless labor and eventual disposal...
your comments regarding Bernays, etc., are so fundamentally correct as to become difficult to properly emphasize...the potential for cliche is ever nigh...
how does one convince another to question their very core beliefs about life, and their role in it? to see that, when one's frame of reference is inherited from others with agenda, every thought must be viewed as foreign in origin, and suspect...
gotta go...
I suggest we all, around the world, reject the modern societal construct together, on what I call Global Start Date: September 22, 2012...
cessation of legal contract, property ownership and industry...a return to local management of local resources by those living there...
peace, mister_moose...and, by the way, PING PONG BALLS!
Democratic Republic: We are represented by our moneyed interests (the things we buy), and our votes are ALL counted (one dollar, one vote).
You can't have a constitution "of the people" and corporate charters (of the artificial, immortal being called 'stockholder') at the same time. One is meant for the general welfare of the nation, and the other is meant for the welfare of the few. The original Tea Party was a demonstration against corporate power (East India Tea), not against government. Too bad that too few can understand this.
Furthermore, the name "Tea Party" did not emerge until decades after it happened, as part of a rewriting of the history by the wealthy and influential to make it seem tame and fun, the Declaration of Independence was not read in public - the wealthy feared that it would give the "rabble" ideas - and the working class people who fought in the war and who organized the resistance were shouldered out of the meetings, impoverished and betrayed just as soon as the British troops sailed for home.
But yes, it was the Crown corporations, not the King whom the working class people sought to overthrow.
Nothing that happens politically in this country, nothing that the government does makes any sense so long as people believe that one person = one vote. Once you realize that one dollar = one vote, then everything the government has done and is doing becomes clear as a bell. Perhaps people are happy with that, perhaps they would rather not trouble themselves to change it. But we could hope that at a minimum people would be willing to see and to speak the truth about it. The fact that so many people are unwilling or unable to see this or speak about it makes their commentary about "solutions" and "plans" suspect. How can you know how to solve a problem if you are unwilling or unable to see it and call it for what it is?
Sorry if this has already been mentioned here... but if anyone interested in discussing Fascism has not read Bertram Gross' 1979 'Friendly Fascism' (South End Press)... it is a must.
You can buy it here (avoiding Amazon for its Wikileaks shame)
[http://www.bookbyte.com/1/1/53069-friendly-fascism-the-new-face-of-power-america-by-gross.html]
I think the best you can do is run. Get out of Dodge. Exodus.
And the particularly important reason why is: you must not keep feeding the beast with your taxes and consumerism.
If you can't figure out how to flee the country,
AmeriKKKa, and its genocidal, ancestral curse,
then work to make the requisite Reparations.
To the Land. To its People. And to those who were Enslaved.
I exhort you to do the impossible, and repair the nation's last 500 years of terror.
Otherwise nothing but hyperfascism, the mythical and logical result, is left to you.
"Every man a king!"
Huey Long
"Lurking?"
You call this "LURKING????????"
My God, if a cat "lurked" like that he'd be a Sherman tank!
sj
If anyone actually scrolls all the way down here and reads this, nothing you can say in reply can change my mind because that mind (such as it is) is undecided. I can't tell if we're moving into full-fledged fascism or anarchic social breakdown. To me (and evidently only to me) we aren't in a fascist state yet. The proof of that is that people who post here haven't been rounded up and done away with. I don't think European Jews had something comparable to CD. It would have helped the Gestapo know who to go after first.
We do indeed have forces in the government/corporate complex pushing things in that direction with quite a bit of success. Most of the observations made here (the observations, not all the opinions and personalized jibes) are true.
But can they do it? Will we see well organized repression or the other possible future I can all too easily imagine. A recent documentary I saw on PBS about post-earthquake Haiti showed me a future of refugee encampments with people struggling to survive, dropping like flies, suffering mightily, with no end in sight. In fact they were doing better than we may. If the electricity grids go down all sorts of stuff will no longer work, all the computers and networks and servers upon which everything now depends.
Will we go that way, or will the fascists get full control and be able to organize it their way? Or is there a third possibility that I am not seeing sign of yet?
Peace to you all and to all a good night.
We have the benefit of hindsight with the events in Europe.
We should not compare the outcome in Europe with conditions now and be reassured by that. Rather, compare the prelude to what happened in Europe with what is happening here. What we are experiencing is far worse than fascism.
Saying that they have not rounded us all up yet, so therefore things are not that bad is dangerous. There is no absolutely nothing to stop them from doing that, and many thousands have actually been rounded up. "We" - based on what people here are saying and doing, and assuming that most commentators here are white, which must be true or there could never be so much racism being expressed and going unchallenged - would not have been rounded up in Germany, either. "We" are no threat.
The problem with this question - "is it fascism yet?" - is that it can only be answered in hindsight, and those asking it may not live to find out. By the time you "know" - in the way people think it is important to know - it will be far, far too late.
There you go again. I thought you weren't going to reply to me any more. "Saying that they have not rounded us all up yet so therefore things are not that bad is dangerous" seems to me to imply that you don't believe I should post my thoughts. I think the thought you expressed two times in recent posts about disarming the ruling class could be potentially dangerous because deluded crackpots might buy into that idea and give it a try. But it's a legitimate point of view and is as deserving to be heard here as anything else even stuff I say.
I don't think things are "not that bad" at all. To me things are going bad in so many ways that fascism or no fascism it will continue to get worse. Worse than fascism as you say, and nowhere near bottom yet. Or as Kurt Vonnegut said "things will keep getting worse and never get better again."
I hope that I will be able to post more things you will find "dangerous." And if I want to make comparisons about outcomes here and Europe I will do so even if you believe "we should not". Although I often agree with much of what you say, I am not part of the "we" that you seem to feel entitled to lay "should nots " on.
Oh, sorry. I thought my response was fairly benign. I will be more careful. I don't bite - really.
Once more I accept your abject apology although I don't get why you should concern yourself with how I take what you say. Please don't even dream of being careful. Perhaps you should bite.
Look, I don't want to run anyone off the site or cause them to stop posting. If you tell me what you are comfortable with I will respect your wishes.
I'm glad I checked back. I see you could not resist the urge to have the last word. You went to go all the way back here to near the bottom of this three page thread to respond to little old me. My my. Why in the world would you care about my wishes? Nobody else that I read seems to bring that out in you. But for the record I'm am not "comfortable" with anything that's going on in the world today, including some but not all of your posts, and wouldn't expect to be.
Since I'm fairly certain you will be unable to resist whatever weird need you have to respond to my responses, I'll check back in tomorrow. Maybe by then I'll be able to come up with a list of "wishes" I'd be "comfortable" having you respect. I'll make sure to number and bullet point them so that, if you were to respond to a post of mine and in doing so violate a "wish" of mine, I will be able to say in my reply "on [insert date here] you said that you wouldn't ..."
>>You went to go all the way back here to near the bottom of this three page thread to respond to little old me.
It's at the top of my page. Some of us sort the posts by most recent first. The inability of some to realize that there are alternative perspectives usually leads to closed mindedness, lack of empathy and hypersensitivity. It's sort of funny you pointed that out.
hey, Two Americas!
you have covered this well...I wanted to agree...the question is one borne of fear:
Is it Fascism yet? really means, 'are they going to break into my house tonight and kill or kidnap me or my loved ones, and what would I do if they did?'
we are all, knowing how vulnerable we are, and knowing how difficult, and violent, true societal change will be, living under the notion that the worst lies ahead...
the only question is: how far ahead?
the only answer is: less all the time...
several have addressed the psychotic condition of waiting, or wishing, for one's own demise...
peace to you, Two Americas...
Sez John Hall: "I learned when I was in social studies class in school that corporate ownership or corporate control of government is called Fascism."
No, John, it's called "business as usual" under capitalism.
This thread is loaded with fantastic insights. The main article is tepid analysis for a system that is clearly out of control. The comment section outshines the original article by orders of magnitude. I'd pepper the comments with commendations but I'll just summarize here:
readbetweenthe_lines January 14th, 2011 2:11 pm
You continue to be the preeminent bullshit detector in the CD comments section.
polycarpe January 14th, 2011 2:10 pm
Excellent information on how and why this velvet glove fascism has come to pass.
mister_moose January 14th, 2011 4:59 pm
Excellent information on the how.
clovis January 14th, 2011 10:12 am
Excellent compare and contrast.
armybrat January 14th, 2011 4:52 pm
Excellent observations in regards to what we currently face. How you maintain a conservative ideology in the face of your own understanding is mind boggling. As this conservative ideology is the foundation of our current corporate fascist woes, the cognitive dissonance in your own mind must be intense
Many additional replies which are informative, educational and on-topic, too numerous to mention.
human-shit is the most toxic of all.
'Frankly, they own the place.' Senator Dick Durbin.
'They' being Big Bankster and their Big Corporate Everything Partners. 'The Place' being OUR GOVERNMENT.
Hence, Fascism, defined as 'corporate ownership or corporate control of government,' is here. At least according to one of the senior Senators of the United States of America.
Now shut up and go spend money on useless crap like a good little corporate citizen.
This is why I like CD. Great intelligent, comments! Many better than the article. Not much I can add except to say that America's foreign policy has been fascist for at least the past 100 years. Rampant with foreign bribery ( the euphemism is foreign aid )foreign fascist, economic sanctions killing many,many innocent people; and of course foreign, fascist, wars killing not only thousands of our own citizens, but millions of foreign citizens all based on hegemony, hubris, greed and empire.
The entire "is it fascism yet" discussion is nonsensical. People are talking about this as though it were analogous to diagnosing a medical condition. "Is it leukemia yet?"
What is it that people think they would understand or do if they had an answer to this question? The only practical purpose for the question is so that people can answer it "no" and then be complacent and reassured, or else to be distracted by spending their time looking at imaginary things: illusions, symbols and signs that would give them clues about what is happening. Even if they could divine what is happening by reading those signs, then what? Let's say people are able to place a label on "it" that meets with their approval. Then what? We have a label for it? What good does that do?
How about we call what is happening according to what is happening rather than what imaginary category we can put it into in order to have a handy label for it? "American Capitalism: destructive, genocidal, exploitative, racist, and war-like; oppressive, tyrannical, hypocritical, morally debased, rotten to the core and a great threat to the survival of the human race, from the time it began until today."
Asking "is it fascism yet?" makes no more sense, and is of no more value than asking "is it idealism yet?" or "is it happiness yet?" or "is it freedom yet?" It is none of those things. It is what it is.
This is an intersting point. To further it I wonder if we can recognize what we have today as common American humans with their fallabilities that are host to American Capitalism. This way we can discriminate what it is that needs to go. Either we change ourselves so we cannot be host to the destructive elements of American Capitalism, or we hope laws are developed that will prevent this weakness of ours from being exploited for money. Since as the theory goes, the people who run and benefit most from Capitolism and therefore promote it's destructive elements to the tune of our fallabilities are those same people who currently have the greatest power to influence the laws that enable this dynamic. Us changing for the better, or them changing for the better, will make a better world. If we change for the better, they will have to change if they want to ride host on us. It's all about money in the end.
It is about social relations, not objects, hence it is not about money it is about power. People amass money because of the effect that has on their relations with others - they can control and dominate them. Those among us who are unable or unwilling to relate to other human beings as equals are driven to amass money so that they then can control and dominate others and be invulnerable to others.
All of our social structure and conventions are based on this belief - those with more money have a "right" to control those who do not. This irrational belief has ironclad control over every aspect of our life, to the point that most modern Americans cannot even "see" it - even though they are forced to run their lives in obedience to it.
It's interesting that paranoia is brought up in this article as a tool used by the liberal media for leveraging the public sentiment to their cause. A tool used by both sides equally. I wonder how many here can relate to paranoia or fear as the precurses to extremes of hatred and violence of the other. When drummed up in media or talk radio, a collective level of paranoia is created or elevated. All to get one's agenda on the table. But what is ultimately served up as noted by Martin Luther King Jr. is not a solution to violence and war, but the necessary ingredients for an escalation of violence and war. Only peaceful dissent or confrontation of what is unjust has the ability to break down the patterns that lead to or become this primitive human dynamic. If we can show here amongst ourselves it is possible, we can begin to expect the possibility to show it's self elsewhere. If not here, then where?
Hey highkarate. The feelings are mutual.
Here's to the best year ever.
Danny, Danny.
Is Fascism Lurking?
Is the Pope Catholic?
Does Howdy Doody have a wooden ass?
Do bears shit in the woods?
Come on, Danny, for the guy who figured out the financial looting and made the film "Plunder", is that any kind of a question?
Best, Alan
PS. I just bought your book and video
PS2. BTW, I have the flag (corporate flag) shown at the top of this article --- and fly it proudly.
we are the proverbial lobsters in a slowly heating up pot of water.
what began as a schrewd experiment in social engineering and profiteering has become more like the bull in the china shop.
but that's what bulls do - besides shitting everywhere.
our job is not to confront the bull directly. we'd just get gored. first, just get out of the shop!!
either that or try helping each other to crawl out of that pot.
pick your metaphor.
Limited time offer !!
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
Zionist, Fascist, and Nazi are one and the same thing. Think back, history shows that the same people were doing the same thing and asking the same things from 1900 to now! Shake your heads folks, you are the slaves that finance the wars etc and the government ensures that you remain passive and under control. There is no difference whatever for what the claims are in regard to the reasons, bringing democracy, removing a villain,liberating the oppressed, bringing religeous freedom. The rhetoric wreaks with lies and most people are to stupid to know that they are being played for suckers! We are told that this Faith wants to kill that faith for whatever reason, in reality the first are share holders in oil companies and the others have the oil so the first uses whatever blarney they need to justify killing the others. Real simple folks you put up the dough, you do the dying and they get the oil. You need to turn your guns on more meaning full targets and stop being nitwit suckers!!
After all these years and all our talk about liberty, freedom, pursuits, etc. It comes down to the United States of Fascism. You can thank greed and the very unusual viewpoint of capitalism we take and it is now take it or take it.